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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A60564	The Quaker disarm'd, or, A true relation of a late publick dispute held at Cambridge by three eminent Quakers against one scholar of Cambridge ; with a letter in defence of the ministry and against lay-preachers ; also several quæries proposed to the Quakers to be answered if they can.	Smith, Thomas, 1623 or 4-1661.; Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723.; Allen, William, d. 1686.; Fox, George, 1624-1691.	1659 (1659)	Wing S4227; ESTC R18877	22,488	24

Fox and all the rest here stood silent S. Well beloved from this very text that he hath brought to prove he is no Heretick I will demonstrate which I am sorry that I must do but you see he thrusts me upon it that this man is the most damnable Heretick that ever was in the world and that since this Epistle was first writ 't was never so litterally and plainly fulfill'd in any person as in him this day Here the people fecht a deep sigh Hear the words again the two first Verses There were false prophets also c. I begin my Argument from those very words you inlisted on even denying the Lord that bought them the worst of Hereticks He that writ this book Ishmael c. even denyes the Lord that bought him You writ this book Therefore you even deny the Lord that bought you W. I deny the major S. I 'll read a few lines of it and then prove my major you write this against Mr. Townsend Minister of Norwich In your second page are these words Christopher Atkinson Iames Lancaster George Whitehead and Tho. Simonds now in Norwich Goal for their errors and miscarriages Thee Priest Townsend thou Dreamer thou Deceiver Witch O thou blinde Guide thou enemie of God without Christ and his knowledge and in Antichrist W Is the word Witch there S. Thou wouldst bewitch the people with thy lies p. 3. After these and many more such good words he comes p. 10. to speak against the B. Trinity and hath this passage p. 10. The Three Persons thou dreamest of speaking to Mr. T. which thou wouldest divide out of one like a conjurer are all denyed and thou shut up with them in perpetual darkness for the lake and the pit Here the multitude held up their hands and cryed God bless us S. See here he saith that he who asserts the three Persons in the ever blessed Trinity is a dreamer and a conjurer and that that man shall be damned with that Trinity Fox We do not deny God therefore we are no Hereticks Atheists deny God therefore they are Hereticks S. This man will be opponent again Atheists are no Hereticks F. Are not Atheists Hereticks S. No Atheists are worse then Hereticks but they are not Hereticks From these words in Whiteheads book now read I argue thus He who denies the three persons in the B. Trinity and calls him dreamer and conjurer who asserts them saying that a man who saith there be three persons in the Trinity shall be shut up with them in perpetuall darkness for the lake and the pit that man is an Heretick even denying the Lord that bought him But you G. Whitehead deny the three persons in the blessed Trinity c. Fox Here made very long discourse against the Trinity S. Beloved you see I let him speak all he can say I do not disturb them in their speaking as they do me I am willing to hear him or any of them speak all they can for themselves but I confess it grieves me to hear them speak against the B. Trinity and I had far rather hear them talk of somewhat else then make declamations against Almighty God I answer That nothing of this your speech is to the purpose What do you answer to the argument I repeat it again He who denies c. Fox run on in another discourse against the three persons S. I came not hither to hear you to repeat a deall of stuff out of Paul Beast who writ against the Trinity I came hither to dispute If you l answer my argument do If not say you cannot F. Prove that there be three persons S. I will F. But prove it out of Scripture S. I will so 1 Iohn 5.7 There be three that bare record in Heaven the Father the Word and the Spirit and these three are one F. Prove that there be three Persons S. I will Allen Prove them to be three Persons plainly without Logicall termes and vain Philosophy that we may all understand thee S. I will if the Father Son and H. Ghost be three hee s then they are three Persons but they are three hees F. What do you mean by three hee s S. Three things that may be pointed at he and he and he F. I do not like that argument S. I would fain give you an argument that you should like are you three Persons who dispute against me this day or are you not F. Yea we are three Persons t is plain S. Give me now any argument that pleaseth you to prove it and by the very same argument I le prove that there be three Persons in the B. Trinity F. We are in three places and therefore three Persons S. The Father Son and H. Ghost have been in three places and therefore are three Persons At the baptisme of Christ while Jesus came up the H. Ghost came down in the same moment one ascended out of the water the other descended to the water Matt. 3.16 17. And Jesus when he was baptized went up straightway out of the water and loe the Heavens were opened unto him and he saw the H. Spirit of God descending like a Dove and lighting upon him And loe a voice from heaven saying this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased In this verse is mention of God the Father in heaven God the Son coming out of the water and the H. Ghost descending on this side Heaven like a Dove F. Prove there were three persons S. I do it thus If Christ was coming up out of the water while the H. Ghost was coming down to the water then they were in severall places but Christ was coming up out of the waters while the H. Ghost was coming down to the water Therefore they were in severall places F. They have not flesh and bones as we have S. What then I did not promise to prove them to be men or you to be Angels or Gods but them to be Persons like you only in personality F. Persons have flesh and blood as you see we have S. I prove that all Persons have not flesh and blood If God should send this day three Angels from Heaven to prove the truth of Christian Religion against you who deny it and one of them should stand at one end of your meeting house another at the other end and a third in the midst preaching Would you not say that these three Angels were three Persons Yet they have not flesh and blood Speak would you say they are three Persons or would you not All stood mute at length one of them said that Angels are not Persons S. Till me what you mean by a person and I le prove that Angels are persons F. A person is a subsistence We three are three different susistences S. So are the Father Son and H. Ghost if they were in different places they must needs be different subsistences You see my argument stands firm notwithstanding your objection I pass to another

interposed only this Mark the word all I may truly say you hold heresies if I know only some When he had done T. S. said thus Good people you come not hither to hear sermons and speeches but a dispute This man hath troubled you with a long discourse wherein he concludes that I must begin at the latter end which of what consequence it is all you that have skil in any trade or science know as well as I. I shall not trouble you with many words but in short shall only entreat you to hear him again I le read to you his own paper George Whitehead is this your hand or is it not W. I acknowledge it my writing S. I le read his hand-writing So T. S. read it as t is set down before and then askt the people whether he should take the propositions in order as they were placed in Whiteheads paper or not Who answering Yea Yea. He began thus 1. That we called Quakers do not open a door to damnable Heresies 2. That we called Quakers are not Hereticks Against this your first position I dispute thus He that writ this Book opens a door to damnable Heresies holding forth a Printed Book in his hand entituled Ishmael and his Mother cast out You writ this Book therefore you open a door to damnable Heresies Whitehead replyed I deny it S. What do you deny W. That you spoke last I do not open a door to damnable Heresies S. That is my conclusion you should deny one of the Premises Here S. gave him the Book to look on and then askt him whether he were the Author of that Book or not W. I did not write it all for there is somewhat scribled in it S. True here are some things writ on the back-side I le charge You with nothing but what is printed Were you the Author of all that is printed in this Book Your Name is printed both in the beginning midst and end of it W. About three years ago I and four more writ it between us S. I pray tell me plainly whether you l own it or not If you l not own it all then tell me what you will own what not Otherwise when I have proved it a most wicked book you may disown it and so all my discourse fall to the Ground 'T is no pleasure to me to speak or this people to hear vain words If you will not own it speak But you may as well disown to morrow all that you say to day telling us that words are but wind if you disown that which you have printed and affixt your name so oft unto W. Well I will own it prove what thou canst. S. All Papists open a door to damnable heresies You who writ this book are a Papist Therefore you who writ this book open a door to damnable heresies Fox wisper'd but loud enough Mark the Major is Vniversall Whereupon some of the people cryed down with that black fellow that prompt's behind but S. said no let them alone What do you answer W. I deny I deny S. What do you deny Major or minor W. That you spoke last S. repeated the argument again and W. denyed the conclusion S. If you go on to deny my conclusions I shall do nothing but repeat my Syllogismes for my Syllogism proves my conclusion W. Repeat it then Here W. Allen a Quaker interposed and made a speech to tell the people that he did not like this way of disputing and bid T.S. dispute plainly without Logick and syllogismes and vaine termes S. Whitehead was the first that mentiond major and minor and used a Syllogisme tother day to prove Scripture was not the word of God Fox said that the Major was universall It seemes they both understand well enough what belongs to a Syllogisme And I think I have not spoke a word which the meanest here doth not understand and that this way of dispute is liked best by all if not let them speak People T is very well very well We like this way of dispute best of all S. My argument is this All Papists open a door to damnable heresies you who writ this book are a Papist Therefore you who writ this booke open a door to damnable heresies Alderman Blackly This S. doth nothing but say the same thing again and again W. I am no Papist S. You deny my minor which I prove thus He who refuseth to take the oath of abjuration is a Papist He who writ this book refufuseth to take the oath of abjuration Therefore he who writ this book is a papist W. I deny all Popery S. A Papist will say so too I might charge you with many Popish Doctrines but now I only ask whether you will take the oath of abjuration or deny one of my propositions F. Here Fox who had interposed severall times before made a long discourse to prove that 't was unlawfull for a Christian to swear S. did let him run on to the end and let W. speak after him Then askt whether any more of that party had ought else to say all being silent T. S. replied S. I came not hither to dispute with Fox or Allen but since you are resolved to dispute three of you against one I shall reply to you all yea if there were three hundred if you speak but one at once Which of my propositions do you deny major or minor For you must deny one unless you 'l grant the conclusion that he is a Papist F. Prove that 't is lawfull to swear S. That is another question which I le prove at any seasonable time when ever you shall desire me but this is no fit season for we must now stick close to the questions before us People Yes do so Do so Here the Majors wife entreated T. S. to lay aside Whiteheads book and dispute from Scripture Well quoth he I will for a while so he gave the book to her and taking a Bible said S. Turn to 2 Cor. 5.20 Where you have these words Now then we are Embassadours for Christ From which words I prove that 't is an appropriate Ministry proper to some only not common to all and therefore that every Christian man and woman is not an Embassadour of Christ as you G. W. told the people tother day I frame my argument thus He who pretends to be an Embassadour of Christ and hath no commission to show but what all the damnable hereticks in the world do or may show that man opens a door to damnable Hereticks But you pretend to be an Embassadour of Christ and have no commission to show but what all the damnable Hereticks in the world do or may show Therefore you open a door to damnable Hereticks W. I deny that prove it S. What do you deny W. I deny that I open a door to damnable Heresie Here almost all the Company laught shouted stamped and hissed And the Quakers asked T. S. if he was not ashamed of his followers

argument He who denyes the Bible to be the word of God saying that to assert Scripture to be the word of God is one of the deceitfull imaginations which the Priests of this generation have deceived the People with that man is an Heretick but you deny the Bible to be the word and tell Mr. Townsend that to assert it is one of the deceitfull imaginations which the Priests of this generation have deceived the People with Therefore you are an Heretick see here your own book p. 1. lin. 1. In stead of answering this argument about the word of God they started back to the former about the Trinitie and Fox said F. They cannot be three Persons because they were not visible in severall places I can see that man and he can see the other S. If Christ was man and the H. Ghost was in the form of a Dove then they were both seen F. Prove that they were seen in severall places S. Christ was seen when the H. Ghost was not seen therefore they both were seen in severall places one in the water the other out of it F. Prove that they were seen S. If many beheld them both and this their seeing was upon record we saw and they who see it bare record and we know that our record is true then they were seen But many beheld them at once and this their sight was upon record F. The H. Ghost could not be seen S. If he was in the form of a Dove then he could be seen but he was in the form of a Dove F. Not in the form of a Dove but he was in the likeness of a Dove Whereat some laughing he answered again that he was seen but not visible S. Then he was visible and invisible F. Yea. S. Then contradictions may be true at once then you may be a Quaker and no Quaker a Papist and no Papist an Heretick and no Heretick Hereupon Alderman Blackly who is a Quaker said to T. S. I think 't is time now to leave off S. I think so too when he saith contradictions may be true at once F. I pray take notice all of you that this Book Ishmael and his Mother cast out about which so much stir hath been was not writ by me but by this man pointing at G. Whitehead S. True but you defended it I came to dispute him if I had known of your disputing I would have brought one of Your Books THE END A Letter sent to Mr. E. of Taft four miles from Cambridge a Year since to which no answer hath been returned Sir 1. SInce you had not so much patience as to hear me t'other day nor would suffer your daughters to tarry I now make use of my first hour of leasure to write to you part of that which you might have heard me speak then Hoping that you and they whom I look on as having more breeding then any other his Auditors that I saw will not believe him whom his friends generally call the Tinker upon his bare word but like those noble Bereans Acts 17.11 with readiness of minde search the Scripture whether those things were so 2. I guess at the breeding of most of his followers by this passage One of the chief of them viz. Daniel Angier who invites him to that Town entertains him in his house lends him his Barn for a meeting place when I charged him in that place with maintaining that God was a body viz. that he had hands feet a face c. like one of us saying that he contradicted me in my Churchyard after I had preacht the contrary from Iohn 4.24 he told me plainly before all the people when he saw his Ring-leader T. would not defend it that I lyed whereas my whole Parish are ready to witness the truth of what I said 3. But to the purpose I shall in this paper follow that method which the T. commanded me though I desired the contrary shewing first his false doctrine and then prove 't is a dangerous sin in him to preach as he did publikely and in the people to hear him 4. He said in his Sermon that God would lay before us at the day of Judgment 4 books viz. the book of his remembrance 2. the book of the creatures 3. the book of the Law of Moses 4. the book of the Gospel By the book of the creatures he said he meant this or that cup of bear or pot of wine whereby a man is drunk the timber in the wall c. 5. I answer that 't is impossible God should set these this book before us at the day of Judgement because the Scripture saith 2. Pet. 3.10 that the earth and the works therein shall be burnt up If all these shall be burnt up how shall they be laid before us pots and cups c. Had he said that the Conscience should represent these things unto us he had spoken sense but he made the conscience a witness at that bar and not a book 6. When I told him that Christians should not be judged at that day by the book of the creatures but the Gospel he answer'd that he did not take his Auditory to be Christians but unbelievers and in his Sermon I heard him utter these words I know that the most of you are unbeleevers 7. Formerly I have wondred that most of his followers were sad melancholly persons not looking nor behaving themselves like other folk hereafter I shall never wonder if I see or hear they are mad for such speeches as these are dreadful and very uncharitable tending to no other end but to make good people run out of their wits if they have not more then to believe him For I pray consider that an unbeleever is an Infidel that is either a Jew or a Turk or a Pagan or an Atheist persons who shall be damned as sure as that God is true Mar. 16.16 with whom 't is unlawful for any Christian to marry 2 Cor. 6.14 Now if this famous preacher should descend to particulars come to you and your three children and say to each singly Thou art a Jew and thou a Turk thou an Atheist and thou a Pagan I am confident you would be ready not only to say but if urged to swear that he did you a world of wrong And you cannot but think the rest of the company in that Barn as ready to profess the same as you 8. But supose most of them had been unbelievers yet 't is impossible that he being a stranger and having never seen half those faces before could know it For nothing can be the object of any mans knowledge but that which is as certain as any thing can be 9. S. Paul calls those Saints and beloved of God to whom he wrote he never called them unbelievers though some of them were as bad as any of the people in your barn See Rom. 1.7 1 Cor. 1.2 2 Cor. 1.1 Ephes. 1.1 Phil. 1.1 Col. 1.2 10. And as I told him all the