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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B15350	De adiaphoris Theological and scholastical positions, concerning the nature and vse of things indifferent. Where also is methodically and briefely handled, of ciuill and ecclesiasticall magistrates, of humane lawes, of Christian libertie, of scandall, and of the worship of God. A vowed worke, destinated (by the grace of God) to appease the dissentions of the Church of England. Written in Latine by M. Gabriel Powel, and translated into English by T.I.; De adiaphoris. English	Powel, Gabriel, 1576-1611.; Jackson, Thomas, 1579-1640, attributed name.; T. I., fl. 1607.	1607 (1607)	STC 20146; ESTC S101530	122,532	204

was abused to Idolatrie publikely in Queene Maries time or secretly sithens that time If it be true of Surplices are you sure it is true of all Coapes I am not sure I thinke so Reioynder II. Haue you forgotten the distinction of Idem specie Reply and Idem numero I remember it well but this is Reioynder as if it were vnlawfull to vse gold in the Temple at Hierusalem because Aaron framed his Idolatricall Calfe of gold III. By this reason Reply we may erect new Images in the Churches say that these Images were neuer worshipped or abused Nothing lesse Reioynder We are expressely forbidden to MAKE an Image as hath bin noted before XIIX ARGVMENT Supplicat The high Court of Parliament is bound specially to open their mouth for the dumbe to iudge righteously to iudge the afflicted and the poore to giue strong wine to him that is ready to perish and not to contemne the iudgement of the meanest Subiect Ergo They are bound specially to restore the refractarie Ministers ANSVVERE I. THis Argument is parallel Answere the very same with the 8. Argument before and is there answered II. In one word I grant the Antecedent and deny the Consequence because the refractarie Ministers are not such as are specified in the Antecedent as is often declared before The Defender replies Reply This is the Conclusion of all which the Notarie and Answerer vnaptly call a distinct Argument Neither is there any thing heere answered requiring replie then hath been already made Reioynder I haue followed the Auctor of the Supplication in numbering his Arguments who in the beginning of this Argument or Conclusion terme it what you will for me pag. 28. of the Supplication layeth downe this number 18. and so goeth on with the Paragraph as he had done in all the Arguments before adding their proper number And had not I reason to take it for a distinct Argument being so laid downe by the Auctor But let it be as indeed all the rest are no Argumēts a goodly CONCLVSION forsooth the Defender seeth nothing in the Answere worthy a Reply nor I any thing in the Reply worthy a Reioynder AND thus haue I encountered with IGNORANCE it selfe ioyned with extreame MALICE passions wherewith the Defender seemeth to be notoriously qualified First his IGNORANCE is palpable in that he hath neither Arte to dispute nor Stile to discourse nor Iudgemēt to discerne such matters as he handleth al which are euidently confirmed I. By his immethodicall and euil-featured thapsodie being full of vaine tautologies and farsed with much friuolous and idle talke as it were of a discrasied braine lest his Booke forsooth might be termed a TRIOBOLAR PAMPHLET or a TVVO-LEAVED LIBELL as himselfe seemeth to confesse pag. 17. II. By his senselesse Periods and grosse Solecismes euen in the English tongue as pag. 38 The Auctor is able to defend his meaning or ready to yeeld better reason TO THE CONTRARIE also pag. 46. The Cause why wee are put out is not FOR RESPECT of our selues but FOR FEARE of sinning against God and pag. 58 Except you meane NOT the cause of the Ministers and pag. 150. Let the contrarietie of the Answerer to almost IN his whole Answere written be obserued c. III. By his absurd Paradoxes which no Diuine euer maintained before him as pag. 34. The Kingdome of heauen consisteth in the ABVSE of outward things also pag. 36. The libertie of Preaching doth NOT PROPERLY belong to the Ministerie of the Gospell and pag. 120. A Minister out of his Ministerie is NO MINISTER there are many more such examples but I labour to be short Secondly his MALICE is apparent in euery page yea almost in euery line of his Defence wherein hee scorneth and reproacheth and slaundereth not only my poore selfe whom he extreamely hateth for no other cause but because I am not of his faction but also all the reuerend Prelats and Magistrates of this Land yea the whole Church of God amongst vs as we haue heard alreadie When I had first perused ouer this vile and disgracefull Libell I could but maruel at the impudencie of the Defender that in so learned an age durst presume to publish so fillie a worke Whereupon I purposed to haue passed it ouer with silence as disdaining to accept so Ignorant a Man for my Antagonist and to encounter with such as with an Aduersarie whom it were fitter to instruct as a Schoole-boy But when I had better considered the humor of the refractarie faction who embrace euery Sentence proceeding from their RABBINES as an ORACLE be it neuer so absurd and perceiued the Booke it selfe to bee preiudiciall to his Maiesties auctoritie and Lawes to the peace of GODS Church and propagation of the Gospell I was perswaded for this once to take a litle labour to shew the Defēders folly in his weaker Defence of so weake Arguments which I haue done as briefely as I could for why should I speake much of a Discourse so little worth And heere I openly testifie and plainely professe both vnto the Defender and to all others of his straine that if hereafter any of them shall set vpon or attempt any thing against any Booke or Writing of mine if they shall doe it in the common Idiome of the English I will passe it ouer with silence and not vouchsafe them any Answere and this 1. Because it is not fit and conuenient that this Controuersie being moued only amongst Scholers and no way concerning the Lay-people should be vulgarly handled to the increase of factions and part-takings in the Church 2. Because that hauing other imployments more necessarie for these times by this meanes I shall be free from being troubled with the tedious prating the clamorous and scornefull gybing of euery DVNSE that can but chatte English Wherefore I require and adiure you my reuerend Brethren as you tender the quietnes of the Church yea and your owne honest reputation that hereafter if you be not yet satisfied you will write in the LATINE tongue which is the tongue of the Learned and not in the ENGLISH to fill the Common-peoples heads with idle and vaine questions Which reasonable request if you shall refuse to yeeld vnto surely it will be thought that all you do is but ad faciendum populum and also that you are but ignorant and vnlearned men not able to write in Latine as indeed all the DISCIPLINARIANS in English are reported to be I speake not this of all that stand out for the Ceremonies among whom there are some whom I reuerence for their gifts but of the giddie Presbyterians such as this simple Defender is who could bee contented these twelue monethes to suffer my Booke De Adiaphoris to passe vnanswered because it was written in Latine but no sooner came there any thing vnder my name in English but presently he set vpon it according vnto the Prouerb Who more bold then blind Bayard The Lord heale the wounds of his Church appease this intestine dissention among Brethren and grant that wee may do all things to the glory of his holy Name APOCAI 7.12 Amen Praise and Glorie and Wisedom and Thankes and Honor and Power and Might be vnto our GOD for euermore Amen FINIS

exercises of pietie whether publique or priuate or for the auoiding of the Scandall of the weake and for their conuersion to the Church and knowledge of the truth as we haue said before 15 Ciuill Lawes 2. Ciuill are the Determinations of Circumstances necessary or profitable for the keeping of the morall Precepts of the second Table 16 Because they concerne the Conseruation of Order and Comlinesse in common life and ciuill society and of peace amongst men 17 And albeit both the Ecclesiasticall and Ciuill functions be Both the functions haue all others subiect vnto themselues euerie one in regard of it selfe Principall hauing all other functions subordinate and subiect thereunto yet are they distinguished one from another by certaine boūds and limits in the administration of the affaires of Religion 18 For the Minister of the Church instructeth the consciences of men by the Word The Minister whereunto the greatest Magistrate is as well bound to harken and yeeld obedience as the inferiour citizen of lowest degree 19 And the Ciuill Magistrate taketh charge and care The Magistrate that the Word be truly taught preached and receiued punishing with the external sword the violators and contemners of Discipline whether they be Ministers or common people 20 And this is certaine The Ecclesiasticall and Ciuill functions are distinct Offices that these two Offices or functions are distinct and different one from the other which Satan hath marueilously confounded in the Papacie but we and all other good Christians must watch diligently that they be not confounded againe 21 From whence it ariseth Note well that one and the same Person cannot be a Bishop and a Prince or King also a Pastor and a Master of a familie For as these Offices are diuided and seuered so ought also the Persons to be 22 And yet ONE MAN may vndergoe and beare both Persons Whether one and the same Man may beare two persons as the same N. may be both a Minister and a Master of a family So N. being one and the same man may be both Duke of Cornwall and Archbishop of Yorke and yet the Duke of Cornwall cannot be Archbishop of Yorke 23 A Bishop as he is Bishop hath no power ouer the Church to impose any Law Tradition or Ceremony without the consent thereof either expresse or implied 24 Because the Church is a free Lady or Mistresse and the Bishops ought not to beare rule ouer the faith of the Church nor to oppresse or burthen her against her will For they are the Stewards and Ministers of the Church and not LORDS ouer the same 25 But if the Church doth giue her consent and ioyne as one body with the Bishops then they may impose what they please vpon themselues prouided it be not against the analogie of faith and so againe omitte and release the same at their owne pleasure 26 A Bishop as he is a Prince much lesse may burthen the Church with any constitutions for this were to confound both Offices and to be indeed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I speak this of the Church as it is a Church and distinguished from the Ciuill estate 27 A Bishop as he is a Prince may impose whatsoeuer he thinketh good vpon his Subiects as they be Subiects and they are bound to yeeld obedience thereunto so it be godly and lawfull For then they obey not as they are the Church but as citizens and Subiects For there is a two-fold Person in one and the same man 28 So N. as he is Duke of Cornwall commanding all his Subiects to keepe a generall fast or any other such lawfull thing this commandement constraineth all them that acknowledge his power as he is Duke to obedience but not all those which acknowledge him to be their Archbishop namely which are subiect to some other temporall Duke or Prince albeit they be of the Prouince of Yorke 29 Euen as N. compelleth his Seruant to be obedient vnto his Oeconomicall or Domestique Lawes and Orders but not his Church N. 30 But to come neerer the point The Office of the Ciuil Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall matters there is a three-fold Office of the Ciuil Magistrate in Ecclesiastical affaires First that after the example of Dauid 1. Chron. 16.27 he prouide that true Doctrine the sincere Worship of God may flourish in euery part of his kingdome and that the Churches may be rightly setled and gouerned by able and sufficient persons 31 The Second Office is that the Magistrate doe by his publique authority approue establish that Order which was ordained by GOD himselfe for this end and purpose Euen as the godly King Iehoshaphat destroyed the groues and tooke away the high places out of Iuda and sent his Nobles with the Priests and Leuites through all his kingdome with the Booke of the Law which they had that they might goe about all the cities of Iuda and teach the same to all the people 2. Chron. 17.6 32 So also Ezekias sent letters and messengers into all Israel to call them to the house of the Lord at Ierusalem to offer the Passeouer to IEHOVAH the God of Israel 2. Chro. 30.2 c. 33 And so Nehemiah caused the Booke of the Law to be read in the eares of the people and according to the Law therein contained he separated and put away al the strange wiues which the Israelites had married contrarie to the ordinance of GOD Nehem. 13.1 c. 34 The Third Office is that they prouide that all those things which doe appertaine to God and concerne the consciences of men be administred onely by the Ministers of the Church and yet themselues ought to assist and defend the Ministerie with their presence counsell protection and authoritie so as there may be a coniunction and not a confusion of both these Orders and functions 35 According to the Rule and counsell of Dauid to his sonne Salomon when hee exhorteth him to the care and charge of building the Temple and also of prouiding for the holy Worship of God 1. Chro. 28.21 Let all the Priests and Leuits be with thee in all the Ministerie of the house of God 36 The Summe briefly is The Ciuill Magistrate is the keeper of the Law of God for so much as concerneth the outward discipline that the difference betwixt the Ministerie of the Gospell and the Magistracie may alway bee preserued 37 The Ministerie of the Gospell proponeth the Gospel of grace whereby the Holy Ghost is effectuall in the beleeuers as it is 2. Cor. 3.6 He hath made vs able Ministers of the new Testament not of the letter but of the spirit 38 And yet in the meane time the Magistrate hath his outward Office for the repressing of all Scandals for forbidding Idolatrie as well as adulterie and murder Which thing is notablie manifested by S. Paul saying The law was giuen against the vnrighteous profane and despisers of God And the same Apostle calleth this the LAVVFVL vse

whole Parliament What reward the Defender deserueth for this bold slander against the Parliament house I leaue to their wise consideration and censure whom it concerneth and more neerely toucheth His error is Crimen falsi III. ARGVMENT It is a sinne not to recompense a good turne receiued Ergo The refractarie Ministers are to be regarded and spoken for ANSVVERE I. IT is true Answere good deeds must be rewarded specially the Ministers faithfull labours The Apostle saith 1. Cor. 9.11 If we haue sowen vnto you spirituall things is it a great thing c. II. But in that the refractarie Ministers haue looked backe and withdrawne their hands from the plough Luk. 9.62 making a manifest Schisme and disturbing the peace of the Church this deserueth no recompense Here the Defender bestirreth himselfe Reply and produceth all his forces Whether the refractarie Ministers be Schismatiques to prooue that the refractarie Ministers are not Schismatiques I say first of all saith he that this accusation of vs to be Schismatiques is a most beggerly begging of the Question most vniust vntrue and vncharitable neuer yet proued neither able to be proued vntill they proue the matters in controuersie to be meerely indifferent to such vses as whereto they are imploide and vrged by them yea good and laudable ceremonies matters of decencie and order in the Church yea that wee also refuse to conforme our selues vnto them more of stomacke than of conscience Two things the Defender saith must be performed by vs The Defenders first Reason that the Ministers are not Schismatiques ouerthrowne before the refractarie Ministers will acknowledge themselues to be Schismatiques 1. That we proue the matters in controuersie to be indifferent 2. That we euince them to refuse conformitie rather of stomacke then of conscience Touching the first we haue already in diuers Bookes and Treatises purposely written to that end more then sufficiently proued the things in controuersie to be meerely indifferent both in their owne nature and to such vses as the Church allotteth and appointeth them And for the Second I know not well what the Defender meaneth thereby What shall a thiefe be a thiefe notwithstanding that to steale be not against his conscience shal an heretique be an heretique albeit he thinketh he holdeth nothing but truth and must not a Schismatique be a Schismatique vnlesse he be conuinced to sinne against his owne conscience Note the Defenders absurditie What Schismatique will euer confesse that he is such euen against his conscience By this meanes no man shall euer be conuinced to be a Schismatique But we know that obstinate contumacie against the Church in things lawfull is a schisme whatsoeuer a mans conscience be Consciences are of two sorts 1. Too large 2. Too strict Consciences are of diuers and sundrie sorts there is one Conscience that is too large and prophane and another Conscience too strict and superstitious a Popish Conscience and a Precise Conscience I meane in the extreame So then the first part of this Argument being abundantly proued by vs and the second being atheologicall and ridiculous what remaineth but that the Defender labour the refractarie Ministers to acknowledge their ouersight and to yeeld to conformitie The Defenders second Reason Reply to proue that the refractarie Ministers are not Schismatiques is this There is nothing heere obiected against vs wherwith our ancients and betters haue not been charged in former times Eliah was charged with troubling Israel Michaiah might haue been charged with singularitie and Schisme for dissenting from the 400. Prophets Ieremie was accused by the Priests and Prophets to haue spoken against the State of the Citie Amos was charged with conspiracie against the King The enemies of Daniel framed the like accusation against him to Darius Our Sauiour himselfe was blasphemed by the name of a seducer and deceiuer Paul was accused that he taught against the Law and the Temple Such also haue been the accusation of all Martyrs by the common Aduersaries the Paptsts And such are the Prelats accusations against vs. I answere Reioynder The Defenders 2. Reason ouerthrowne As for Michaiah because the false Prophets did not accuse him of singularitie and schisme the Defender becomes their Aduocate and doth as much for them by what right let himselfe looke to it But who will not detest the impudencie of the Defender in that he dareth equall the refractarie Ministers case with the condition of the Prophets and Apostles of the blessed Martyrs yea of CHRIST himselfe But not to particularize I answere in generall The difference betweene the examples alleadged and their case is very great easie to be discerned 1. Those holy men did nothing contrarie to their vocation these do 2. They taught nothing but the truth of God necessarie to be receiued these teach their owne fancies 3. They neuer oppugned the lawfull auctoritie of the Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall causes and Things indifferent these do 4. They were vniustly accused by the false Church for doing their office and dutie these are iustly taxed by the true Church as themselues cannot deny for hatefull schisme and faction 5. The Error is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 His third Reason Reply is Do we varie from the sincere doctrine of the Scriptures Nay rather many of them doe much more swarue from the same touching generall grace and the death of Christ for euery particular person against particular election and reprobation for Images in Churches for deuotion touching the manner of Christs presence in the Eucharist that the Pope is not the Antichrist whereby they hinder the zeale of Christian Princes from executing that against him in generall and against his members in particular which the Word partly foretelleth and partly commandeth to he done concerning the necessitie of Baptisme touching auricular confession for ignorance in the people Who can lay any such points to vs or to any of vs I answere Reioynder 1. The Defenders report of our doctrine is vtterly vntrne The Defender slandereth our Church for false Doctrine for we derest and abhorre euen all and euery of the particular points he saith we teach Wherefore let him either iustifie these things to be true out of the Confession of the faith of our Church which he ought to do if he challenge vs for Doctrine or by any writer of ours of credit in the Church or let him feare without repentance and satisfaction for it by confessing his ignorance and malice in thus slandering the Church of God the iust condemnation of Lyers and false witnesses whose portion is with hypocrites 2. His Argument is this The Defenders 3. Reason ouerthrowne The refractarie Ministers do not varie from the sincere doctrine of the Scriptures Ergo They are not Schismatiques To let the Antecedent passe for I haue not obserued that any of them erre in any fundamentall or materiall point of doctrine which we thanke God for praying farther for their preseruation vnto

and I doubt not but he shall see all such persons either speedily reformed or turned out of the Church But if the Defender meanes by Formalists all such Ministers as be regular and obedient vnto the gouernment and discipline of our Church then hath hee entred againe into his Common place of Calumniation and lies which needeth no further answere II. To the Consequence The Consequence followeth not from the Antecedent but this rather Ergo Answere The Pastors must needs haue pitie vpon their miserable aistresse and obeying the wholesome ordinances of the Church returne againe and comfort them The Defender replieth Reply We will returne againe to our people and comfort them when the Ordinances of the Church are proued by Gods Word to be wholesome If your consciences be not yet perswaded of the wholesomenes and lawfulnes of our Churches ordinances Reioynder wherfore do not you obiect any thing against our Bookes written purposely of that Argument But I feare me it fareth with many of you as it doth with most part of the Papists in other things to wit that your wils and affections ought to be beaten downe and terrified with Gods threatnings against cōtemptuous and wilful impugners of the knowne truth rather then your iudgements reformed or rectified in these controuersies I pray GOD forgiue you your wilfull obstinacie and contempt and encline your hearts to embrace peace and vnitie that at length we all may be one as GOD the Father and CHRIST IESVS are one VII ARGVMENT To regard the refractarie Ministers Supplicat is to regard the whole land the States of Parliament their Wiues and Children the King and Kingdome Ergo If the high Court of Parliament loue the safetie peace wealth and glorie of King and Kingdome and of themselues theirs they must speake and do what they may for the Gospel and the Ministerie thereof ANSVVERE I WHat can a sensible man make of this Enthymeme Answere The refractarie Ministers are the safetie of the whole land Ergo The Court of Parliament must speake for the Gospell The Defender replieth Reply The title REFRACTARIE omitted he is a senselesse man that can make nothing of that Enthymeme especially these Ministers pleaded for being proued true and faithfull For though the Gospell and the Ministers thereof be distinct yet he that speaketh for one speaketh for both and he that speaketh for both speaketh for the Land the safetie whereof dependeth vpon both The Defender speakes so resolutely and confidently of this Enthymeme Reioynder Note the Defenders skill in Logike that he should seeme to be some very profound acute Logician But let vs examine his skill a litle Suppose that which is most false to wit that the Schismaticall Ministers are not refractarie yea that they are not Schismaticall that they are not disobedient vnto their lawfull Gouernours nor stirred vp dissention amongst vs which is more that they are good and faithfull Ministers Suppose I say all this What can a SENSIBLE Logician not such a one as the Defender is conclude out of this Enthymeme The Ministers whereof we speake are the safetie of the whole Land Ergo The Court of Parliament must speake for the Gospell How many termes hath this Enthymeme Let vs recken them 1. Ministers 2. Safetie of the Land 3. Court of Parliament 4. The Gospell Can this Enthymeme be reduced into a Syllogisme hauing foure termes Here we want some of the Defenders skill to helpe vs. Yea but He that speakes for the Gospell speaketh for the Ministers thereof The Consequence is not necessary But grant it so Are there no other Ministers but such as be Refractarie The error is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 II. The Antecedent is very improbable Answere if not altogether false both because there bee thousands of Godly faithfull Ministers in the Kingdome which are not of their faction that are as Charets and Horsemen and also because the Ministers are therefore termed Charets and Horsemen because they are Gods instruments for gathering of his Saints by the exercise of their Ministerie But these men refuse to exercise their Ministerie they haue relinquished and forsaken their calling wherefore they can by no reason be termed Charets and Horsemen And so far are they from being the Safetie of the Land that would God they were not the Sores of the Church and Sowers of sedition I meane Schisme and faction The Defender replieth Reply Generally throughout the whole Land there are Sixe reading Ministers for one Preacher at the least by practise For there are some that are licensed to preach that neuer did are or were able to preach Many also that can preach seldome doe preach Some also that doe preach and that often do it so Popishly or otherwise so corruptly so foolishly and ridiculously to make sport rather than to edifie so vainely and vnprofitably that it were better to hold their peace then so to preach I defend not ignorant or negligent Ministers Reioynder neither also such as preach Popish corrupt or foolish doctrin but hartily wish that al such were either reformed or remoued But sure I am that this speech of the Defenders is a calumnious and lying Hyperbole which if he were enforced to proue by particular Induction he would come farre short of his reckonning Whosoeuer in his Sermons taxeth their singularitie and schisme these men will presently calumniate him to preach Popish corrupt foolish and ridiculous doctrine The Error is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 III. For the Consequence Answere I am sure it is from a Topique place called A baculo ad angulum from the Staffe to the corner for it hath not the least coherence with the Antecedent except the Suppliants meane that these words Refractarie Ministers the Gospell the Ministerie of the Gospell be conuertible termes which is absurd and vnpossible To this the Defender Replieth NOTHING IIX ARGVMENT The Magistrate ought to execute iustice and iudgement Supplicar and to deliuer the oppressed Ergo Much more ought the high Court of Parliament to do so and to deliuer the refractarie Ministers ANSVVERE To the Consequence THe Consequence hath two parts 1. Answere That the Honorable Court of Parliament is to execute iustice and iudgement which I grant 2. That they ought to deliuer and restore the refractarie Ministers That rests to be proued still because they haue not yet iustified their cause and declared that they are vniustly oppressed nor can euer do The Defender replieth Reply That the Ministers haue not yet in Law whereof the present question is iustified their cause and declared that they are vniustly oppressed nor can euer do is not for want of matter of Iustification or for want of the truth of vniust oppression but I. Because they haue not been admitted to appeale Grieuances and Oppression pretended by the ●efractarie Ministers and to prosecute the Iustice of the Land nor to call in

owne conscience Reioynder Haue the reuerend and wise Prelats any reason to admit such to labour in the Ministerie who they know will disturbe the peace of the Church yea who plainly professe that they will neuer bee conformable vnto the Discipline established None at all Especially seeing the superiour Magistrate hath reposed such trust in their fidelitie and diligence that they would carefully to their vtmost abilitie endeuour to preserue pure Religion and vnitie among his subiects If the Refractarie Ministers were permitted to labour amongst vs why then their Consciences forsooth would not suffer them to performe either faithfull scruice vnto their Brethren or loyall obedience to his Maiestie Better it is for the Church of God that such Ministers and such Consciences should haue no part in our societie than that all States should be set together by the eares about idle and needlesse questions XVI ARGVMENT The Matters in question Supplicat viz. Subscription Ceremonies the strict obseruation of the Book and other Conformitie are not of any necessarie vse but are causes of diuision and bones of contention amongst vs. Ergo They both conueniently may and ought to be taken away ANSVVERE To the Antecedent I. IF the matters in question betweene vs Answere bee but Subscription Ceremonies c. as here the Suppliāts ingenuously confesse wherefore haue they hitherto mainely cried out that their contention was about the CAVSE OF GOD and his WORD WHOLE CHRIST and his GOSPELL the MINISTERIE thereof and SALVATION of the people The Defender replieth Reply The least transgression of Gods Word and the least obedience to Gods Word is the Cause of God as well as the greatest But the Defender ought first to haue proued Reioynder that wilfull contemning and kicking against the gouernment and rites established in our Church is OBEDIENCE TO GODS WORD also that dutifull and peaceable conformitie and exercising of the said ceremonies and rites established is TRANSGRESSION OF GODS WORD and then he had said somewhat But that will neither the Defender nor all the packe of the faction be neuer able to do II. Albeit we also do not hold Subscription Answere Ceremonies c. to be absolutely necessarie to saluation nor to be imposed vpon euery Church for why should not other Churches vse their owne libertie yea and our Church also hath power to alter these particulars yet we know that some Ordinances and Ceremonies are necessary for gathering of assemblies establishing of a Church and to be as it were the bonds and lincks of societie The Defender replies Reply How doth the first point of this Answere agree with that that some of the great Prelats hold that their auctoritie is Apostolicall and the Ceremonies matters of order and decencie Are not things Apostolicall and decent common to all Churches Or may our Church alter that that is Apostolicall Or why should these Ceremonies be more necessarie for our Church then for other Churches Or not decent for other Churches and yet decent for ours I answere particularly 1. Reioynder There is no contratietie betweene what I writ and what the Defender saith others of our side do hold for the calling of Bishops is Apostolicall who denies it 2. The Ceremonies we vse are matters of order and decency 3. There are many things both Apostolicall and decent which all Churches at all times are not bound vnto 4. The particular occasions and circumstances of our Church may be such that some things may be decent vnto vs which are not so for other Churches All which are perspicuously laid downe and proued by instances and examples in my Booke de Adiaphoris which here need not be repeated vnto which I referre the Reader III. Yea euen these particulars Subscription Answere Ceremonies c. being imposed by the Church and commanded by the Magistrate are necessary to be obserued vnder paine of sinne seeing he that resisteth auctoritie resisteth the ordinance of God Rom. 13. The Defender replies Reply What if they be commanded only by the Christian Magistrate not imposed by the Church Or imposed by the Church only the Magistrate being an Infidell or a persecutor of the Church Can paine of sinne also be without paine of damnation Are not those things that are to be obeyed vnder paine of damnation necessarie to saluation Hence also it followeth that things once commanded by the Church or Magistrate especially by both are as holy as the immediate Commandements of God The particular inconueniences and absurdities hereof are infinite What also is heere said that was not wont to be said by the Papists against the Martyrs The Magistrate cannot impose any thing vpon the Church Reioynder without the consent thereof but the Church may impose any indifferent ordinance vpon it selfe without the consent of the Magistrate if the Magistrate be an Infidell or a Persecutor which cannot be wilfully transgressed vnder the penaltie of Sinne and so consequently of damnation without repentance for it Yet it followeth not that such Decrees are as HOLY as the Ordinances of God the reason hereof is apparant in my booke De Adiaphoris The Popish ordinances and rites are not things indifferent or lawfull in themselues ours are The Error is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 IV. And that they are things Indifferent in themselues Answere and may bee vsed without sinne wee haue proued at large in a peculiar Booke written of that Argument Lib. de Adiaphoris The Defender replies Reply Alas M. Powel make not such account of your Booke de Adiaphoris then which there neuer came more simple stuffe from any man reputed learned You had neede recant your blasphemous point therein against the auctoritie of Christ Iesus for making lawes in his Church Verily you might as well haue denied him to be a King and a Redeemer As by writing that Booke DE ADIAPHORIS a work not voluntarily vndertaken by my selfe Reioynder but imposed by Authoritie I neuer regarded to please Man at whose hands I looke not for my reward but laboured to serue the necessitie of Church vnto whose seruice I owe my self So now being written and published abroad I weigh not what any priuate Spirit being ouerruled by inordinate passions of loue or hatred will censure or account thereof for friends will flatter and aduersaries raile but wholly referre it vnto the iudgement of the CHVRCH of God at whose graue and iudicious sentence I stand or fall And touching the generall doctrine of the Protestants that CHRIST IS NO LAVVGIVER which you in your deep ignorance terme BLASPHEMIE obiect against it you shall God willing be answered But you professe pag. 156. that you will leaue that Book to other to shew my childish weakenes therein You doe very well for by so doing you prouide the better for your owne credit for that Book is written in Latin you cannot write true English V. Now that they are become the Bones of contention and Causes of diuision