méerè contrary doctrin vnto the scriptures It is therefore conuenient that you shew vs wher in you we differ in what pointes in what doctrine and then we shal thinke that there is some shewe of good meaning in you otherwise if you continue disslikers of our profession and shewe vs not wherein but referre vs to your authors bookes we shall neuer find out the difference betwene vs. 13 In déede in your long discourse you haue shewed your disliking in one part of our doctrine to wit of predestination which you impute to be the cause of the fulnes of prisons in England but before the doctrine was set foorth prisons haue béene full of leude persons such as regarde no religion Therefore you doe not well to charge the doctrine of predestination with so foule a faulte Which doctrine standeth vpon the omnipotencie of God so that they that acknowledge his almightinesse must of force graunt his power in predestination and election And although some stumble at the same yet the faulte is not in the doctrin but in the persons who take it by that part which it is not to be holden by For as a sharpe two edged sworde being taken by the blade or point to defende a man may as soone hurte himselfe as his enemie euen so who taketh the doctrine by such parte as the holy scriptures haue appointed it will be to their comfort otherwise it may hurt thē Many haue writtē largely in that argumēt whervnto hitherto few haue replyed And if no other matter gréeue your minds but this doctrin I doubt not but reconciliation may easely be bad but I am affrayde our Iustification in Christ our acknowledging ourselues to be sinners our weaknes in perfourming y law is also some cause of discention betwéen you and vs which I woulde be glad to vnderstande for my erudition 14 You say that H. N. exhorteth to true repentance godly loue vpright faith c. If we did not the like we were impions hipocrites but he you say doth it with power which we woulde gladly féele 15 Our iustification and redemption bragge we neuer so much thereof saye you helpeth not except a regenerate life followe We agrée with you that a regenerate life doth shewe a iustified man but maketh not a man iust For it is the fruite and not the roote of our iustification 16 But that you tearme our repentance obedience faith loue c. the vpright baptisme of the father your meaning I am ignorant of To take vp in the beléefe our crosse daily against sinne and this to be the true baptisme of the sonne as you say And when Christ hath gotten in vs a liuing forme or shape by faith and so be raised vpp in newnesse of life this you cal the true baptisme in the holy ghost All which I doe acknowledge may haue verie apt application so long as we imagine not a perfection to be wrought in vs as to be without sin For to be like to Christ or haue his image is to be vnderstoode to be like minded to him who did not sinne but that priuiledge onely perteineth to him and not to vs For he is like to vs in all thing sinne except but this barre sinne is the badge whereby his death and office worketh vppon vs to our saluation And except we with al the Prophets Patriarches Apostles other Gods children doing our best still acknowledge our selues sinners I cannot sée how Christs death doth by any meanes perteine vnto vs Gladly would I be resolued in this point 17 And nowe at this day we are called as you say and might finde much more rest if such enimies to al godlines as I am were not This is verie sharpe iudgemēt Bicause I manifest your familie doth it followe that I am enemie to all godlines Is ther no godlines vpō earth but among men of your profession only Christs houshold were very smal then and yet as I am an enemie to your doctrine so your persons I haue not hated For whom in their trouble I haue sought deliuerie and haue knowne of your méetings if I had béen enuiously minded but far be that from me 18 As for E. L. I protest vnto you euen by the Lord that he is vtterly ignorant of any my doings neither did I sée him this yeare and halfe yet did hée participate to mee of Christopher Vittals behauiour longe agoe Nowe touching your frée confession before all men out of the mouth of H. N. of your doctrin certeinly it is shadowed with such phrases and circumstāces that few can find any sense in his bookes but manye good wordes without conclusion which shoulde not bee in the puritie of a good cause 19 As for those propheticall spéeches in the Apocalipse of the white stone with a newe name written therein which none knoweth sauing he that receiueth it if this be H. N. as you would slily insinuate tel vs in plaine tearmes For your hidden misteries wil not longer serue 20 You aske what ministration was euer true which came not from God his owne mouth I answere as before that there must be both an inwarde calling which is from God an outward calling from men Nowe if H. N. or you will shewe vs that he is called frō God his owne testimonie is not sufficient neither doe his bookes manifeste his calling Therefore for the credite of his new doctrine it is required that he worke miracles or else prooue vnto vs that his doctrine is not disagréeing from the holy scriptures and that substancially If you woulde goe plainely to worke and shewe vnto vs your authours doctrine by principles prooue the same by holy scripture surely I and others woulde conceiue that vpon some grounde of good conscience you were seuered in iudgment from vs For so long as the matter remaineth hidden men construe your doinges worse peraduenthen it is it augmēteth suspition that being called to witnes forth your doctrine you are founde so fearefull and fainte that it sheweth not a testimonie of the spirite of God For where the spirte of God resteth there is ioyned wisedome audacitie constancie trueth and plaine dealing 21 And where you holde it good policie to flée frō one citie to an other being sought for I grant it to be reasō yet being called broght before y magistrats then fearefully or cowardly to fainte is méere impietie in a iust cause He that denieth me before men I will c. For either ye vtter such a confession as is holden of vs and beléeued among vs or else venie your author and his doctrine vtterly Did the Martires in the primitiue Church so Did our brethren in Queene Maries dayes so Nay cleane contrarie being called they did boldly publishe the trueth of Christ with open and plain speaches did set down their faith in principles to the eyes of al men and not kéepe it secrete in corners 22 Assuredly if H. N. be a minister of the Lorde then haue I much
diuision increased a worse heresie then before so that the sonnes of the Diuell gate names â–ª as Phariseis Saduceis Esseis Basilides Cerdonistes Valentianistes Marcionistes Appelles Montanus Sabellius Manes Arius Donatus Macedonius Eunomius Pelagius Eutiches which ingeÌ„dered the Pope and Papistes when â—esus Christ his Church was banishâ—â— by the tyrannie of the great murders from Nero to Domitianus and other through persecution After which time yet to vexe the Church a new came in Menandrians Cherinthus Ebionites Nicholaites Saturninus Taâ—â—anus Messaliani Nâ—scoâ—ians Anabaptistes Libertines aâ—d diuers others whose nature not vnlike to Turdus Syluestris by whose â—yling on the Okâ— or fruite trees the Misâ—le groweth so of the doung of these silthie sâ—â—â—es haue proceeded a nâ—wâ— Mergus a cormorant foule the familie of loue an hereticall sect that hath to bring forth a new puritie in religion supped vp the moste part of former errours which except it plâ—ase the Almightie God in the mercies of his Christe our Lorde and Sauiour the sufferance thereof will giue occasion to a newe persecution It behâ—ueth therefore all reuereâ—d Elders Bishoppes and Preachers to seeke at the handes of our souereigne authoritie to redresse the same or else will assuredly followe the like plâ—gue on vs as was at Munster in Germanie by Dauid George Iohn a Leede Kâ—ipper Dolling and others the seede whereof is H. N. Henrie Nicholas nowe of Colone His disciple here in England Christopher Vittel lotner and many moe whom God turn from this and al other errours if it be his wil or else hasten their ouerthrowe from poysoning the simple as yet to be accounted traitours to God hipocrites to the Prince and false Prophetes in seducing the people Thus gentle Reader I haue presumed to enter into this authours booke these fewe wordes to none other ende then to incourage thee to accept his paines that seeketh by his studie and laborious toile thine ease in bringing to lighte that whiche might else haue longer bene hid to the great hurt of this common wealth And now being brought to light giue God the praise to whom he honour and glorie for euer Amen Stephan Bateman professour of diuinitie The life of Dauid George testified by the Magistrates of Basil which was the founder of the heresie of H. N. and the Familie of loue DAVID GEORGE borne in Delphe a towne of Holland taught his errours in the lowe countrie where he dwelled fourtie yeares and fearing to bée espied by the Magistrates departed out of his countrie Anno. 1544. and iournied towards Basil in Zuitzerland with his familie and kinsfolke named himselfe Iohn of bridges When he was come to Basil he made his complaint to diuers of the Magistrats that he was banished out of his natiue countrie for the word of God and was faine to flée from place to place They tooke compassion of him and made petition vnto the Lordes of the towne for him that it would please them to take him and his for poore subiects and inhabiters of their citie They receiued this answere that they would not denie their citie to any honest stranger being of a good true religion His graue yeares sober speach and modest behauiour with his ancient and comely apparell did not a little preuaile that his petition tooke place so that he and al his companie were made frée men of Basil was in good reputation among the people He was liberall in giuing of almes and full of hospitalitie he maried his daughters very worshipfully he was serued in plate and spent liberally for his scholers in the lowe countries made collections for him so that he wanted nothing Eleuen yeres he dwelt in Basil and it was not espied what doctrine he taught Then he built two houses the one for pleasure in a garden the other in the towne one of the houses was by lightening and thunder consumed with fire also in his own dwelling house one loft fel downe and did much harme al these were warnings of Gods displeasure In processe of time one that married his daughter beganne to mistrust his doctrine and when Dauid George vnderstoode thereof he sent for his sonne in lawe and with many persuasions endeuoured to confirme his sonne to beleeue that he was that right Dauid that was sent from God and should restore againe the kingdome of Israel and build the tabernacle of Iacob in the latter dayes whereunto his sonne answered that the restoring of the kingdome of Israel and al other prophesies of Dauid was fulfilled by Christe With which answere Dauid George was veriâ— angrie notwithstanding with gentle wordes he beganne againe to persuade him y if any thing were too high in his bookes that he could not vnderstand he should commit it vnto God from whom such high wisedome did come He writ diuers bookes especially â—â—â— called The wonder booke wherein he taught his damnable errours He dyed the 16. of August 1556. and was buried in the parish Church of S. Leonardes Many of his disciples tooke great thought after he was dead for that he promised vnto them that he should not die but if he did he would rise again within thrée yeares and fulfil all his former promises Diuerse of his disciples and schollers forsooke his heresies after his death and confessed themselues deceiued and acknowledged Dauid George to be a very blasphemer of our sauiour Christ. But certaine would not but conueyed them selues away and infected others The Magistrates of Basil when they vnderstoode of his doctrine and manners they called before them all such as they suspected to holde of Dauid George and searched their houses founde the bookes and letters which he had written and when the Lordes of Basil had all they caused them to recant solemnely in the chiefe Church all such articles as Dauid George had taught them They founde also in Dauid Georges house a picture of Dauid Georges person veriâ— curiously cunningly couÌ„terfet which together with the carcase of Dauid George his bookes letters c. were burned in the Market place his goodes and landes seised to the vse of the town All the rest that were knowne to holâ—e that errour did willingly abiure the same and so were receiued as members of Christes Church Yet did not his heresies cease for diuerse were in Holland that stifly did maintain Dauid Georges heresies and peruerted many among which number was Henrie Nicholas thought to bee chiefe who after the death of Dauid George tooke vpon him to mainteine the same doctrine not in the name of Dauid but in his owne name as a Prophet sent to rebuke the world of sin and iniquitie hath written many books in the Dutch tong in a rude stile which many of his schollers fellowes haue translated into diuers languages his Euangelium Râ—gni is in Latin many also are in a Dutch letter in English translated as is supposed by Christopher Vittell a ioyner dwelling somtime in Southwark who hath by his trudging about
liue vnder the obedience of any magistrate be he neuer so wicked or vngodly the Turke the Pope or whosoeuer 5 Item that they allowe a kinde of shrifte worse then Popish For where the Pope requireth but confession of the act coÌ„mitted they will haue the thoughtes manifested and what our nature and inclination draweth vs vnto 6 Item they holde that the lawe of God is possible to be kept of euerie man that will indeuour himselfe thereto 7 Item that their authour H. N. is the true prophet of God sent to blowe the last trumpe of doctrine which shall be published vpon earth he only knoweth the true sence of the holie scripture 8 Item that his bookes are of equall authoritie with the holie scripture and are written with the same spirite 9 Item all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught or preached by any other then their Illuminate Elders in the Familie 10 Item they commend the Pope and Cardinals and allowe the Masse other their ceremonies The Bookes of H. N. which I haue seene 1 IN primis the first Epistle of H. N. 2 Item the first and second exhortation of H. N. 3 Item a diologue betweene the father and the sonne 4 Item the prophesie â—â— the spirite of loue 5 Item the published peace vppon earth 6 Item the declaration of the masse 7 Item their Euangelium Regni 8 Item the true and spirituall Tabernacle 9 Item the new and heauenly Ierusalem 10 Item a confession of their faith newly made 11 Item sundrie Epistles of H. N. Bookes which I heare of and haue not seene 1 ITem two bookes intituled the glasse of righteousnesse 2 Item a Booke called the holy Lamb. The displaying of the Familie of Loue. WHen I considered the duetie of a Christian to consist in the true profession of Christ Iesus his name diligently to walke in the pathes and wayes manifested in his word and to séeke to beautifie and inrich that beloued spouse the Church of Christ sanctified by his bloude I could not holde backe my penne to publish such matter as I sée daily to blemishe that beloued bride I meane the Church of Christ and to haue crept in by the subtiltie of Sathan our professed enimy Hauing therefore gathered diuers notes of that cankered error of H. N. taken out of his bookes which I haue to shewe I had thought to haue stayed my hande from further frauell but being vrged by diuers of Gods children to manifest this my labour to the end that some nouices of that errour might if it were possible be stayed from further plunging themselues into that gulfe of impietie How the wicked take occasion by these like errours to speake euil of Christs Church the eares of many godly doe heare Especially the Papists who speak and write â–ª and nothing is heard more common in their mouthes then these tearms Ye are at variaunce amongst your selues no vnitie of doctrine is obserued ye are of diuers opinions and sectes But how vntruely they impute these maters vnto the church of Christ to euerie member of the same Church it is euident For if we consider the wisedome of God in gouerning his we shal perceiue that in all ages when Christes Church did most flourish in perfectioÌ„ then was errour and heresies moste rife as may wel appéere euen in the Apostles times by the Nicolaitans Ebionites Cerinthus and others How busily did the fathers in the primitiue Church withstand such heresies as crept in euen in that happie time Tertullianus the Valentinians Augustine the Donatistes and Athanasâ—â—us the Arrians with infinit mâ— as by reading the Ecclesiasticall histories doeth well appeare Wherein what trauell hath béene taken what counsels called what Books written it were a wonder to behold But when corruption began by litle and litle to spread her selfe and got the face of a Church O how were dissentions appeased no varietie séemed to be where as in déede nothing was taught nor published but dreams deuises of men who leauing the certein and knowen wayes of y Lord reuealed in his word betoke theÌ„selues to depend vpoÌ„ the doctrines of men But if we descend into these last times wherein we liue and marke the wisedome of God in gouerning his Churche how he hath manifested his sonne Christ Iesus with an vncouered face to the great comfort of his children how the doting dreams of men are vanished how nothing but Christ Iesus is lifted vp with prayses as the immediate and only cause of our saluation how the true vse of workes is placed not as any cause but as the fruites of our instification And yet to sée how busily sathan enuying the prosperitie of Christes spouse endeuoureth daily in his meÌ„bers to trouble and disquiet this peaceable Sion by raysing vp diuers strange and monstrous heresies as the Anabaptistes the Free will men the Arrians the Pelagians and the Familie of Loue with many others which heresies the Diuell more bufily soweth nowe to disquiet the Churche then heretofore in y time of ignorance when he lulled the most part of y world in errours and dreames of men And séeing that euerie errour doeth seeke his cloake defence by the holie scripture yet we haue great cause to reioyce that onely by the scripture they are all put to silence and their heresies made manifest to all men as by the learned treatises of many graue men in this our age doeth manifestly appeare Of this last errour of H. N. the cheefe piller and vpholder of these errours of the Familie of Loue whereof by the Lordes assistance I minde to leaue behinde me such notes and bréefes â–ª as of certeintie I haue learned bothe of the person and also of his doctrine no man hitherto that I can learne hath endeuoured to confute them in writing Whose Bookes as they haue come to my hande I haue with diligence perused and by much conference with diuers of that Familie learned the doctrine which they followe And whereas they haue béene charged with diuers articles before the highe commissioners yet by no argument that I can learne doe I finde that they holde all the errours conteined in the same Notwithstanding so many as either by the doctrine of Henrie Nicholas or by conference I haue learned I haue set downe to the ende that some good man might be incouraged to confute so impious an authour and such horrible errours and perfourme in some learned worke that whiche my want and capacitie is not able to supply neither would I haue ventured to committe to writing suche rude and ignorant labour the matter béeing in déede â—etter then the handling but in my opinion it is better to haue course bread then none at all And because diuerse with whome I am familiarly acquainted are fallen into this errour of Henrie Nicholas I haue the rather for their sakes bent my studie to doe them good if it be possible And if these simple notes may haue that successe that I wishe I trust it
stead and office in iudging the children of God saying My iealous conceiuing can not stande otherwise towards thee but that thou art a presumptuous whore and shalt be constrained to drinke the bitter cursed water of my ielousie If these be not Luciferian voyces I am much deceiued then he saith that what the Prophetes Christ haue written that must be fulfilled in him and with him and that all the generations of the earth must submit them selues vnto the mercy seat and godly maiestie which is in him Thus I suppose my coniecture standeth firme where I saide that Dauid George was the hatcher of this heresie and layde the egge but H. N. brought foorth the chickens How wel they agrée in vaunting them selues doth well appeare and that the sonne is farre worse then the father Surely I could well haue spared my penne in writing this and other their wicked opinions with their patrones haue buried it in silence had it not the zeale of the Lordes house carried me so farre that I could not stay vntill I had published suche matter as came to my handes whereby I sawe the glory of Christ Iesus to be so defaced séeing these wicked impes to place them selues so high in the mindes of many simple people here in England it pitieth me to sée them so snared in this bewitched errour A man would thinke that these things are so vaine absurd that none y were in their right wits would once bend their mindes to imbrace the same In déed if I did not know many of theÌ„ and am truely certified by some of the same fellowship that there are in Engand at the least 1000. in diuers partes of this realme which do hold this vain monstruous opinion of H. N. I would not haue traueled any further But eueÌ„ for their sakes who in déede are simply deceiued and not maliciously holde any thing doe I write and if this my labour may by the Lords will conuert any of that fellowship and bring them into the plaine and manifest way whiche Christ Iesus hath left in his word I haue my expected desire There is no one thing in my opinion that hath so much preuailed with this simple sorte which are members and professours of y Familie of Loue as a certeine shew outwarde face of a holy conuersation which some of their illuminate Elders do séeme to vse Wherein they followe the steppes of the Pelagians and Papists directly whose doctrine of works howe by them we are in the fauour of God and accepted doth in diuers treatises manifestly appeare destroying the worke wrought by Christe our Lorde â–ª by whose bloud we are cleansed and by whose stripes we are healed without this faith in Christ all our works be they neuer so godly are méere impietie If he woorke in vs the will and the déede what haue we to boast of workes If we haue nothing which we haue not receiued what fauor with God doth our works purchase If euerlasting life be the frée gift of God what haue our workes to do in that matter of our saluatioÌ„ It standeth not vpon so â—ickle a point as the vncertaintie of our workes but in suche errours they wander which leaue the wholesome precepts of the holy Ghoste reuealed by the scripture and imbrace the doctrins of men It séemeth that the simple truth which by the Scriptures we be taught and the promises of Christe our Lorde made vnto vs doeth not content their curious heads but vainly they wander in euery vncerteine way estéeming H. N. and his sayings expressed in his book to be of no lesse value and credite then the sacred Scripture written for our comforte not as the workes of men but by the finger of GOD euen the holy Ghoste And whereas H. N. doeth boast him self y he can not erre he saith that with the same lying spirite that is in the Pope affirming the selfe same thing As for the Pope it is manifest ynough without proofe But bycause some may thinke that I auouch that of H. N. that is not to be proued I will set downe his wordes as they are written in his booke intituled The prophesie of the spirit of Loue the 13. chapter where you shall perceiue y H. N. doth couple him self with Moses with y Prophets with Christ and his Apostles very presumptuously affirming that he him selfe can no more erre then they His wordes be these H. N. Chap. 13. verse Moyses the Prophetes Christe and his Apostles and his Minister H. N. they iudge to erre or misse the right rather then acknowledge themselues in their imagination to be ignorant and lying In my opinion H. N. in these words doth somewhat ouermatch the Pope for the Pope doth acknowledge that as he is a man he may erre but as he is Christes vicar or deputie vpon earth he can not erre but H. N. without any distinction doth affirme that he can no more erre then Christe or his Apostles And in déede his bookes are thought amongest his disciples to be of equall authoritie with the scripture and they do affirme that they are written with the same spirit But if their bare affirmation may stand for good proofe then indéed it is somwhat they say but the holy ghost hath taught vs another lesson saying beléeue not euery spirite but trie the spirite whether he be of god And that we may rightly discern this H. N. other wise called Henrie Nicholas which taketh vpon him to be that great prophet sent to rebuke the world of sinne hath written his bookes intituling one The prophesie of the spirite of Loue wherin he prophesieth of many thinges to happen to the Church of GOD before this time but God be thanked his wordes are no warrants he is proued a false prophet and since our Sauiour Christe published vnto the world y glad tidings of his glorious gospel to our great comfort the office of prophesying or foretelling of thinges to come hath ceased in Christes Church Many haue risen and taken vpon them to prophesie and foretell thinges to come â–ª but they haue ben counted false prophets euen as H. N. is Christ our Lord did forewarne vs that in the latter times such false prophetes should rise and false Christes and such daungerous dayes that if it were possible the very Elect should be deceiued Blessed be the Lorde our God which by the light he hath giuen his children in the holy scripture hath so instruct vs that the very childreÌ„ babes are able to confute these false techers false prophets And least the Papistes should imagine that this H. N. should be a professor of the Gospell I will declare manifest causes to proue that he is a right chickeÌ„ of the Church of Rome and harboured many yeares by Granuella a Cardinal Howe he extolleth the Pope to be that great Priest of the West howe he openeth the misteries of the Masse in a book intituled A declaration of the masse
the loue of God and Christ farre be that from me it is selfe loue that I discommende in your author and in you all of this family For the loue of God is manifested to vs by Christ our Lorde which is our onely comfort So God loued the worlde c. You loue your authour so wel that this loue of God little appeareth 2 Could any man you say rew the prosperitie of the householde of God except he were of the diuell no verelye If you were of Christs householde we as fellowes woulde imbrace you but straungers from that household ye are and as straungers lurke in corners 3 My foundation you say is against H. N. whom I neuer knewe nor vnderstode off True it is touching his person but by his doctrine he is not vnknowne to me whose bookes I haue to shewe 4 You say as Christ in the reuelation is shadowed by two caracters A. and O. so none can knowe his name except he ouercome in the spirite therefore we must be scilent hereafter for H. N. is not the signification of any mans name This is a great mistery in déede for if H. N. be not a man then haue I vtterly mistaken my selfe but sure the bookes were not written by Angels man was the minister and the man that write them his name is Henrye Nicholas the same mans life I haue truely set downe not hearesayes but the trueth not of enimies but of his neighbours familiers not one man but many they will not onely speake the trueth but are ready vppon their othes to testifie the same 5 Where you iudge that you are suer they are not of the Church of Christ it is very rash Iudgement I coulde testifie of their honest life and manners but it shal be here impertinent You make your comparisons vnequall because Christ by two letters did testifie his maiestie power as god will you admit H. N. by like reason to vse two letters significant In déede I haue â—en aunswered y H. N. signifieth Homo nouus but such follyes will not serue you must of necessitie acknowledge H. N. to be a man as one of our Family at Farnam before the Bishop of Winchester did acknowledge confes him that is to say H. N. not only to be a maÌ„ but also a sinner least you shuld burden me with vntruth as you haue done I will giue you his name R. W. 6 You put me in minde of my impudent dealing in that I haue saide that none of your family dare set forth your doctrine in principles that all men may sée wherein you and we differ you referre me to a little booke called The confession of the Family which booke I haue read but that is very plausible nothing differing from vs If you helde no worse pointes then that booke doth vtter suerly I would come before you al acknowledg my fault and craue pardon but this is a méere mockery of the people to set down your faith common with vs and nothing contrary to vs where as your authour in sundrie places tearmeth vs a diuellish Sinagogue or schoolâ— and that we are not the Church but a harloâ—t If you and we professe one Christ one baptisme one faith why are we seuered in communion but it is a worlde to sée your doings in this matter When any of your family are conueÌ„ted before any officer in Christes Church then you subscribe to any forme you recant in your owne churches you promise neuer to professe H. N. nor his doctrine and yet still after so sollemne protestations you reteine your secrete doctrine which in fewe wordes is not plaine dealing If your doctrine be a trueth why doe you still deny it if the power of God hath shone through H. N. so mightely why doe you not in principles drawe your doctrine that the people of God may sée vppon what groundes and stayes you haue seuered your selfe from vs but you vse the pollicy of the cuttle a fish whose property is to trouble the water that she may not be séene so with your darke speaches misteries you would cast a myst that no man should sée your meaning and then stande vppon your tiptoes and say that your sentences haue such profounde maiestie that our simple grosse capacities cannot comprehend the same Plaine dealing is euer best If we be in error shewe it to vs in what points and for my owne part I wil if you can conuince me by the testimonies of holy scripture yeald vnto you or any 7 What conference I haue had with your family dyuers of your family can tell you 8 You say my disorderly dealing shall appeare in the aunswere to my booke which for my part I shal long looke for for hitherto you haue not set down any one place where in I haue mistaken your author In déede I tooke not vpon me to write against any one booke but to display what absurdities I finde in your authors Doctrine you shall finde that performid or it be long by Maister Knewstubs who hath written a book to confute your Euangelium Regni You apply this text of holy scripture very fondly Christ saith my kingdome is not of this world 9 You aske howe the trueth can be taught where his kingdome is not If you meane by this worde kingdome power maiestie dominion then it is shewed in y world manifested to hys Church But by kingdome the Euangelist doth vnderstande as I take it an outwarde shewe of principalitie which the Iewes looked for to be in their deliuerer or Messias which he denied to be in him which may better appeare in that which followeth For then would my ministers surely fight for me 11. I knowe that Christ chiefly reigneth in his Churche but who are the Church is the question Euery heresie seeketh to shadowe it selfe with the title of the Church but by the life of Gods holy worde they haue béen found heretikes and seducers and yet I neuer hearde of any errour but drewe their doctrine into principles and durst disspute with any in their opinions except one Basilides whiche Eusebius in his 4. booke Chap. 7. maketh mention of who feining sundrie titles of vnknown names of Prophetes to amaze their hearers depending vpon Reuelations and visions amongest other thinges taught this that in time of persecution their faith with periury might bee denied saying Iura periura fideÌ„ prodere noli Now surely if I might without offence compare your dealings with Basilides it shoulde be founde little differing 12 You say that the same doctrine which the Martyrs taught in the primitiue Church H. N. teacheth nowe but wee plainely denie that euer any taught a perfection to bee atteyned vnto in this life to liue not daily committing sinne or that our battell is ended when we be re generat or that any H. N. hath receiued such power of teaching extraordinarie as you imagine For we denie that he hath the spirite of god and say that he teacheth
in the loue which in playne tearmes is to growe to perfection and to be without sinne which they affirme in this life to be brought to passe If this be good doctrine then the holie Scripture is contrarie 1. Iohn first Chapter If we say we haue no sinne we deceiue our selues and there is no truth in vs. Likewise Paule Rom. 8. verse 20. The creature is subiect to vanity not of his owne will but by reason of him that subdued it vnder sinne To the Galathi Chapter 5. verse 17. The flesh Iusteth against the spirite and the spirite against the fleshe continually These are contraries the one to the other so that ye cannot doe the same thinges that ye would And Almightie God did pronounce vpoÌ„ man at the beginning this saying God sawe that the wickednes of mans heart was great and all the imaginations and thoughtes of his heart were euill continually Gen. Chapter 6. verse 5. The whole scope of the holie Scripture doth proue that God hath shut vp all vnder sinne Now if H. N. or his Il luminate Elders will still auouch that they are without sinne then may I as truly aledge y they are without christ Let the terrible example of Sharpe and Allin moue you to coÌ„sider how desperat a doctrine you imbrace whose souden deaths without any comfort in Christ may remaine as an example to all posteritie For the Author of this errour is Satan who in a desperate state leaueth his pupils For it was pride that caused almightie GOD to execute his iudgement vpon him his state béeing angelical so likewise he séeketh to bring man into the same destruction by the same meanes through pride and presumption that we are pure without sinne and so exalting our selues we might haue the swifter damnation For Almightie God hath cast our condition state so lowe that without his mercie set foorth by Christe we all perishe as is witnessed by Paule * God hath included vs vnder sinne * Also both Iewes and Gentiles are vnder sinne as it is writteÌ„ There is none righteous no not one c. We are neuer so néere vnto our God as when we féele our sinne as a burthen or heauie loade lying vppon our conscience nor neuer further off then when we féele or testifie that we are without sinne which persuasion Sathan doth féede our humours withall contrarie to the holie Scripture Therfore I conclude that this principle to liue in this life without sinne is méerely the suggestion of Sathan and not of the spirite of god Christ Iesus came into the worlde to saue sinners And againe I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentaunce If Henrie Nicholas and his Illuminate Elders be now without sinn Christe came not for to saue them * For there is none other name vnder heauen giuen to men by which we shal be saued but Christ Iesus Therefore manifestly it appeareth that H. N. and his Illuminat Elders are clean excluded and haue no néede of Christe for his office and death doeth properly belong to sinners then consequently not to them Therefore ye nouices of the Family which sée not into what daunger Christopher Vittell H. N. doeth miserably bring your troubled mindes looke wel betimes espye their subtiltie leaue the doctrine which is without comfort and hath no warrant in the holie scripture forsake those péeuish and darke riddles of H. N. and cleaue vnto the holie scripture leaue the phantasies of H. N. and his scholler Vittell and by little and little ye shall espie their craft and subtiltie how they set vp them selues and not Christ Iesus how they teach false doctrine which dare not abide the light nor they are not able to defend and yet persuade you in corners that it is the spirite of God by whiche they speake How gréeuous ye are vnto the Church of GOD may appeare by the trauell which is taken for your sakes what offence ye giue what stumbling blockes ye are vnto the simple whome ye ought not to offend no not the least let your conscience beare witnesse * It is necessarie that offences come but woe bee vnto them by whome they come Know this for certeine without the Arke there is no saluation except ye abide in the vine Christe ye bring foorth no fruite ye cannot serue two maisters béeing so contrarie If ye cleaue to H. N. and his doctrine ye haue no parte nor fellowshippe with Christe Iesus for H. N. destroyeth the office of Christe our Lorde and taketh away the comfort of his Gospel in stéede whereof he placeth his vpright fréedome with a perfection in this life suche as the holie Scripture alloweth not For our battell is continuall and shall neuer haue end vntill our flesh be dissolued and we at rest in Christe If we must atteine to suche perfection in this life as H. N. sheweth then our Sauiour Christe did in vaine teache vs to pray continually Forgiue vs our trespasses as we forgiue c. Also Leade vs not into temptation Which petitions are without effect if his doctrine be true Therefore as ye loue your own soules beware of his doctrine examine it better acknowledge Christ Iesus and his Gospell and leaue the drowsie dreames of a doting Dutchman and the erronious spirite of Christopher Vittell arude and vnlearned Ioyner And although they boast neuer so much of the spirite yet vse the counsell of the holie Ghost Beleeue not euerie spirite but trie y spirit whether he be of God. Think not within your selues that they cannot erre it is a priuiledge not giuen to mortal man but only to our immortall God. God is true and all men are liers Beléeue not that his Bookes are written by the spirite of God for God is not contrarie to himselfe the doctrine of H. N. is manifest contrarie to God the doctrine published by Christ in his gospel If ye continue in the Family of H. N. ye denie Christ. We may not hold of Paule or Apollo for they were not crucified for vs we are counted Christs friendes if we doe those things that he commaundth What haue we to dâ—e with H. N. or his commaundementes â–ª Deceiue not â—our selues with your pretenced the we of a holie life but confesse with the Prophet Dauid Psalme 130. If thou Lorde shouldest looke straightly vpon sinnes Lorde who should abide it â–ª Euen the holâ—est y euer were being â—arthly men haue néede to call vppon God in this manner with the beloued Prophet Dauid If you imagine that your workes do helpe or profite you to saluation ye are with the Pelagians and Papistes demers of the grace of God in Christe our Lord in which doctrine of merite there is no comfort nor consolation If ye continue still in the Family of H. N. there is neither hope nor helpe for you Christes sacraments you conteâ—ine which are to vs the seales and cognisances of our redemption and tokens of his couenant and promise Ye haue forsaken the
and inherite the peace He threateneth the ministers of God whome he calleth Caynish persecuters and murtherers that they haue falsely iudged his Family He commandeth them to cease from iudging God his matters saying they vnderstand it not He pronounceth the heauie curses of the lawe against them if they repent noâ— Last of all he telleth that the glorious Lordlinesse of GOD shall in him be manifested declared and fulfilled If H. N. do not shew him selfe naked bare in this his pride I report me to the indifferent view of the Family especially such as are not entred into that gulfe that no truth can be taught by any other then by H. N. and his Elders whether these spéeches procéede from the spirite of God or from the spirite of pride and presumtion Let them indifferently iudge and espie the deceipt where it lurketh namely to discredite all the children of God which teach the Gospel of Christe Iesus and to plant his doctrine and teaching in stead thereof and in déede it is the marke he shooteth at but I hope in vain to al y be Gods children What is this but to take away our comfort in Christes death and promises and to be deceiued with the subtilties of a seduced and erronious spirite and to discredite the Gospel that we might depend vppon H. N. and his doctrine O subtile Satan if thou couldest bring this to passe which thou goest about in thy members then haddest thou thy desire to set vp thy selfe and tread downe the bloud and death of the Lambe of God which hath taken away the sinnes of the worlde But our God hath promised to kéepe vs his children euen as the apple of his eye For as a Father hath compassion on his children so hath the Lord compassion on them that feare him Psalme 103. ver 13. So that Almightie GOD doeth prouide for his childreÌ„s safty from such poisoned infection and suffereth others that willingly will wander out of the plaine wayes of Christ which the Scriptures of God doe point vnto them Of all the errours that euer the diuell did sowe to disturbe the Church of Christ none is more subtile then this y no trueth can be taught by any other then by H. N. and his Illuminate Elders it is false seducing deceiuing what any other do teache Alas why should mortal man be thus lifted vp and take vpon him Christ his office calling for this prerogatiue onely hath Christ Iesus and none other to teache all truth for it is one of his speciall titles I am trueth Whither doth H. N. thrust himselfe by this proud challenge y al truth is only taught by him and his and caÌ„ not be taught by any other sure into Christ his seat office but with Lucifer the Prince of pride he shal be thrown down headlong all such as in their puffed mindes doe exalte themselues aboue their state and condition For of all vice and sinne whiche man doth commit none is more odious in God his sight then pride especially the pride of the minde in the highest degrée as this is to place a vile man in Christ Iesus his office and calling Into suche errours doe they runne whiche content not them selues with the manifest and plaine testimonies of God to vs reuealed in his worde but curiously séeke for nouelties at the hands of mortall men yea vile men and of the worst condition and yet so close they sticke vnto this heresie by the persuasion aforesaide that no trueth can be taught but by H. N. that I feare me the disease is incurable â–ª except the Lord in mercie open their eyes that they may â—spie at the last into what miserable and vile errours and heresies they are snared which they shall neuer doe so long as they holde that principle aforesaide Yet we of the Lordes housholde will not let to do our dueties to admonishe you and shew you the greatnesse and daunger of your backslydinges in charitable manner And although this simple admonition will little preuaile to stirr vp your minds to acknowledge with vs the trueth of Christ Iesus his Gospell yet knowe this vndoubtedly that almighty God hath in his Church men of zealous minds that will not sée Christes glorie so defaced and his Gospel so despised but will in learned manner write against your Family and are able to declare your errours whiche my vnlearned head is not able to bring to passe Although thys will not moue your mindes yet my conscience is quieted in that I haue done my best for your conuersion and discharged my duetie which I owe vnto the Churche of Christ as a member thereof to open and detecte your leaders and teachers which abuse your simplicitie without measure and instruct you that conference is not good that you may professe the doctrin of Henrie Nicholas inwardly and be subiect to the doctrine of the Gospell outwardly whiche in plaine spéech is to dissemble with GOD. For you are obedient to such doctrine as is taught you communicate with vs in Christes sacramentes you heare our teachers expound the scriptures and yet you credite and beléeue onely H. N. and his doctrine taught by Vittell Is not this plaine hypocrisie will God be thus mocked If God be God followe him If Baal be he follow him In Gods trueth we must be of a single minde without halting hypocrites and dissemblers he vtterly abhorreth If Christes Gospell be a trueth as the diuels were driuen to confesse then assuredly H. N. by the same doctrine is manifested to be a lyer and hath not the spirite of God but the spirite of pride in a boasting minde Lift vp your heades and sée in time vnto your health and saluation searche the scripture more diligently and leaue the riddles of H. N. and you shal perceiue more contrariâ—tie in their teaching then I haue expressed you shal rest in the coÌ„fortable promises of Christ our Lord and as for H. N. and his promises what haue we to doe with them let them with their Authour perish in obliuion and be deceiued no more therwith then shall ye féele how swéete the Lorde is and what comfort we haue in Christ Iesus which none can expresse but such as taste thereof féele it working in them selues to immortalitie which comfort is not found in the writinges of any mortall man Knowe this for certaine Lex Domini immaculata conuertens animas The Lawe of the Lorde is a perfect Lawe and conuerteth soules â–ª The lawes preceptes and writings of men are all vnperfecte Why doe ye cleaue vnto H. N. and his Bookes and leaue this perfect lawe of righteousnes which leadeth to life euerlasting If this warning will not serue I shal sorrowe vntil God open your eyes that ye may sée your gréeâ—ous reuolte and into what grinnes and snares of the diuell you are wittingly ledde but my prayer shall not be wanting for you to desire the Lord in mercie for his Christes sake that he will at the last
vtter their mindes to any other that is not of their companie I can be both an eye witnes and eare witnesse which is a very subtil persuasion of sathan For that man that wil not vtter his griefe or sicknes and where the paine is howe or when caÌ„ he be healed it is an vnpossible cure Euen so in the Family they are so close and so warie in their speach that they will not vtter their griefe to any that can ease them Therfore so long as they continue in that minde they are remedilesse I shall not néede to confute their doctrin by the testimonies of holy scripture which in déede is easie to be done I doe reserue the same to some zealous pastour in Christs schoole which I dout not but as occasion serueth they wil be willing to perfourme It is ynough for me to beginne the skirmishe to display the Familie to make readie the way to discrie their force that others may come after and ouerthrowe their camp and put them to silence for euermore He that will rightly consider the originall of this heresie with the Authours what persons taught it first and when it did increase and growe shall sée that euen when the Gospell began to shine againe being couered with clouds and darkened with dreames of men then began Sathan in Dauid George to enuie the prosperitie of the Gospell Dauid died An. 1556. and then Henrie Nicholas supplyed his turne and followed his steppes not in Dauids name but in his owne name as a Prophet sent of God to rebuke the world and to bring them as he saith to the right wayes But more truely may it be affirmed that they peruert the simple which were entred into the right and plaine wayes of Christe our Lorde and haue brought them from the pure waters which are drawne out of the fountaine which the holy Ghoste by the scriptures doth offer vnto vs and doe giue them dregges and puddle which vngodly men haue digged out of the myre of their owne imagination and do deliuer it as drink sent of God to quench their thirst but they deceiue them most shamefully For to all our senses it doeth appeare to be ranke poyson and doeth slay the soules of euery one that doth vsually drink thereof If these simple admonitions may doe the least of you good giue glorie and prayse vnto the Lorde our God if not I haue discharged my dutie whiche I owe vnto Christe Iesus and his Churche in letting you sée the beginners of your bewitched follie And I shall not let to make my humble prayers vnto the Lorde our GOD euen for his sonne Christe Iesus sake that he will open your eyes and mollifie your stonie heartes that you may beholde the Lorde Iesus which was crucified for you who with his bloud hath cleansed washed your sinnes be they neuer so great that in his goodnesse and mercy he wil take away this erronious spirit wherewith ye are possessed and create in you a right spirite to be obedient to his will and not to the will of mortall men which seduce you and leade you headlong to destruction and that he wil bestowe vpon you his grace to sée rightly into his word without the vaine shadowes of allegories which deceiue you and leaue to vs nothing certaine and that you may â—leaue vnto the Gospel of Christ Iesus and forsake the vain trust you haue in your Deifying and to liue without sinne which I instantly desire our Lorde God to bring to passe for his sonne Christ Iesus sake Amen Certein absurd speeches taken out of the bookes of H. N. as errours of the Familie of Loue. 1 Howe and in what manner the Lorde God hath appeared to H. N. THE Lord God of heauen moued me in his minde or spirit his power compassed me with a rushing noise and the glorie of the same God of heauen became great in my spirite in such wise that the clearenes of God wholy inuironed me and shone round about me where thorough y sight of mine eyes became clearrer then the christall and mine vnderstanding brighter then the sunne When I then perceiued or vnderstoode it so the Lords meaning and will vnto me euen such as his beeing or essence spake vnto me For the being of God gaue forth his sound and voyce and spake vnto me H. N. through the spirit of his loue all these wordes 2. The secrets of our hearts are knowne to H. N. For although ye dissemble with mee and howe craftily so euer ye couer you before me yet are neuerthelesse all the counsels and falshoodes of your hearts manifest before mee and so muche the more naked and bare before the eyes of my heart and spirite For no beloued no ye can not bide couered before me nor before the face of my God. 3 H. N. can no more erre then Christ and his Apostles They doe iudge Moyses the Prophets Christe and his Apostles and his Minister H â–ª N. to erre and misse the right rather then to acknowledge them selues in their imagination to be ignorant and lying 4. The scriptures are fulfilled in H. N. and his Familie To the end nowe in the very last the Scripture and all what God hath spoken by his holy Prophetes and what is written of Christ should in vs and with vs become fulfilled to the honour and glory of God and to our ioy like as it standeth written Luke 1. ca. 24. vers 44. This is assuredly the heartie mercifulnesse of God ouer vs nowe in the last time to the end the glorious Lordlynesse of GOD should in vs become manifested and declared and the Scripture fulfilled 5 No man must mistrust H. N. in doctrine nor any euill to be in him They ought to beware that they distrust not the eldest in the Familie of Loue â–ª nor suspect any maner of euill or vnwisedome by him nor yet also in any wise persuade them selues that the exercises documents and instructions whiche are taught or set foorth before them by the Father of the Familie of Loue or oldest Elder are too slight too childish or too vnwise for them to followe after or to obey but with perfect hearts humbly and singly minded euen as good willing children vnto obedience to receiue the same instructions proceeding out of the wisdome counsel of the Eldest and to stand eueÌ„ so submitted always vnto the manly oldnesse in the loue 6 The maner of shrift vsed in the Familie It is expedient that they make maninifest their whole hearte with all their counselles myndes willes and thoughtes together with all their doinges dealings and exercises naked and bare before the Eldest in the Familie and not to hide any thing bee it what it is and al what their inclination and nature draweth them vnto and al things wherwith they become teÌ„pted in their heatrs If ye chaunce to offende or committe sinne confesse the same before the priestes and Elders and let all appeare nakedly
and apparantly before them 7 That we must liue without sinne The vpright freedome is this that the heart minde and spirite is wholy released purged or purified from all wicked nature which hath reigned ouer him and that there dwell liue nor rule any other thing in him namely in all his spirit thought mind soule but alone the true godheade with his louely being of the vpright loue yea to be so wholy replenished with all the vertues of God and that there flow nothing else in him namely in this spirite and minde but the spirituall heauenly and liuing waters 8 Howe H. N. iudgeth of vs because we acknowledge our selues to be of the Church of Christ. For that cause if thou nowe account not thy selfe for an whore but esteemest thy selfe for the faithfull espoused wife of Christ my ielous conceiuing can not stand otherwise but that thou art a presumptuous whore whiche playest the hypocrite with Christe and couertly committest whoredome thou shalt be constrayned to drinke the bitter cursed water of my ielosie 9 No man be he neuer so learned or godly can vnderstand or interpret the scripture but onely the Elders in the Familie The Scripturely learned man hath no knowledge of Gods matters he can not vnderstande any tittle much lesse expounde or interprete the same to others all Scripture appeare to suche couered secrete in signes and parables nor can comprehend what the same according to the trueth is What such conceiueth or speaketh is false and lyes It is assuredly giuen to the family of Loue to vnderstand the secretes thereof It is assuredly all false lyes seducing and deceitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminate men out of the imagination of their knowledge and out of the learnednes of the scripture bring foorth preach and teach they preach in deede the letter and the immagination of their knoweledge but not the word of the liuing god Let them esteeme themselues as holy as they wil they are a false Christianitie a diuelish synagogue or schole 10 That all men must submit themselues vnto the godlie wisdome in H. N. Seeing nowe that I my father finde out in deede that the Lorde the moste highest hath reuealed his mercie seate y possession of his most excellent Maiestie and heauenly riches in thee and with the same being of the perfect Godhead made a godly dwelling with thee so were it meete and conuenient that al the generations of the earth submitted them selues vnto the same mercie seate and godly Maiestie assembled them thervnto 11 Howe the Elders are Godded with God. It becommeth not that any shoulde take in hand to teach but only the Illuminate Elders in the Familie which also haue receiued the word of life from the liuing God and are euen through the same Godded with God or incorporated to God with whom also God in on◠being and power of his spirite is Hominified or become man. An admonition to Christopher Uittell THe cause that moued me to set foorth this litle piece of work hath not ben as I doubt you will imagine of a malicious minde towardes your Familie the Lord is my witnesse I lament you and malice you not but of a sincere affection I owe vnto all Gods children ▪ who by you are deceiued with the doctrine of H. N. whom I haue manifested and made throughly knowne vnto the world And I would to GOD that you coulde haue contented your selfe with the Authours bookes and not haue published them to our brethren the simple ones in the countrie who are led easily into any newe doctrine which they neuer heard by your subtile persuasion And for as much as I knowe your person and what capacitie is in you I doe verily thinke that the drift of H. N. is not vnknowne to you namely to set vp him selfe as a Prophete to tread downe Christe Iesus our Lord and to destroy the effect of his office These things you sée well ynough in H. N. and yet you cease not still to ertall your Authour and his bookes and miserably seduc◠the simple Doe you thinke to escape the heauie stroke of Gods hande No he commeth and will not be slacke to take vengeance of such as lead the simple and blinde out of the wayes of the Lorde our GOD and make them partakers of doctrines of men possessed with Sathanicall spirites It is necessarie that offences come but woe bee to them by whome they come it were better that a milstone were hanged about his necke and hee cast into the Sea. If this doctrin be not offensiue to Gods children iudge it your selfe Consider that the bloud of those simple ones will be required at your handes which perish by deceite Cursed is he that leadeth the blind out of the way Woe bee vnto him that saith sweete is sower and sower sweete Your erronious spirite is well knowne to Gods Church I heard you at Paules Crosse recant the blasphemies of Arrius doctrine the copie of which is foorth comming and now Sathan hath possessed your minde with infinite moe blasphemies of H. N. Is this no sinne thus to deceiue the simple You are one of those Elders that kéepe all the Commaundements of our GOD and yet are a blasphemer and a sinner in the highest degrée Your deceite is knowen your trecherie is manifest some of your owne Familie can testifie that you are an hypocrite and a dissembler and liue of the spoyle of the poore and haue left your arte and calling to liue méere ydlely by sowing heresies as it were of purpose to the destruction of many simple people Alas haue you a pleasure in their destruction Doth it delight you to leade them headlong to perdition Will not a day come when the Lord our God will charge you with this matter most sharplie Remember in time mortall man that thou shalt answere for euery soule that is peruerted Although they perish thou shalt not escape the Lordes handes The more thou leadest into errour the more grieuous shall be thy destruction and damnation Thinke not that thy counterfet shewe of a holy life can any thing auaile Now thy visard cloake is pulled off I doubt not but the simplest wil espie thy deceit and be no more deceiued with thy pretences to gather their money daily to set foorth the workes of H. N. and inrich thy selfe as wil bee proued If thou feare not the vengeance of God yet let the shame of y world driue thée to confesse thy fault and as thou diddest before recant the errour of Arrius so nowe come foorth out of thy denne and recant the blasphemie of H. N. that the poore and simple may be brought into the wayes of Christe our Lord out of which they haue wandered ouer long Then shal the Church of Christ reioyce ouer your conuersion and Sathan and his ministers shall be put to flight the poore strayinge shéepe shal be brought to the folde of Christe Iesus and you shall be willingly receiued into the
which was written priuatly for conscience sake to whom I wholly agree in all thinges sauing heresies and especially those y are secreat therefore for my excuse I protest I could very wel haue kept these priuate conferences secret had not some Godly and learned ernestly moued me to the contrarie And if I had thought that these rude aunsweres shuld haue come abroad I would haue vsed some more diligence in penning them but since the family haue coppies hereof I minde not to add any thing least they exclame against me as you see they doe What part of our doctrine they finde fault with by perusing these leters thou shalt perceiue The Lord in mercy open their eyes that they may at the last beholde their backsliding from the right wayes of the Lorde our God manifested and bring them O Lorde againe into thy folde that we all may reuerence that good sheepeherde of our soules Christe Iesus Amen A Letter of the Familie to I. R. I Haue bestowed diligence M. Rogers in perusing the Booke which ye set out intituled The displaying of an horrible sect of grosse and wicked heretiques naming them selues the Familie of Loue with the liues of their Authours and what doctrine thei â—each in corners with yet certain Articles confessed by two of the Familie before Syr William Moore which when I went about to peruse I founde it so friuolous and voyde of good argument that I much maruelled what might be the cause why the authour deuised such vntruthes and chiefly bicause he put it in print at the instance of his friendes nay rather enimies for friends persuade honest things and enimies dishonest You write that the paines you tooke was for a priuate friend fallen into that errour and though you were moued to put it in print yet you were loath for diuers causes but chiefly bicause your conscience tolde you that the eyes of the worlde should by that meanes see your manifest vntrue reportes for falshoode would haue corners and feareth the light If it were only ignoraunce it were the better to be borne withal but indeede as it seemeth it is come out of malicious enuie Many goodly shewes can not colour the matter for it is a custome for men for good maners sake to alledge great wants to performe their intents and yet will aduenture their follies with hazard of good or euill successe A rude stile is neuer hurt to an honest cause for the honestie beautifieth al deformities of rudenesse But for the bragge to haue some other of more iudgement to replie I verily think that no honest man of any wit will assay to defend so vnhonest attemptes least he be drawne in by that means with this Author I. R. to be found foole-hardy or rashhastie perfourming therein as well by writing as by deede vncharitable iâ—ueighings impugnings oâ— that which you confesse you are not acquainted withall and for that cause you are rightly termed of some for slaundrers For in deede many knowing the people slandered to be honester then the slaunderers call in doubt whether those sayings might be true which are vitered against them Nowe ye shall see this good childes care as out of dutie to Gods Church euen as blinde as bolde steppes in first to reprehend and condemne the loue of God and Christe which is the holy Ghoste euen out of a zeale to aduaunce his purpose whereby he might shewe the fruites of a iustifying faith and bicause he hath long time looked about and yet findeth none that wil be so maddas to enter with him see now howe he can according to his blindnesse reproue others not seeing that they out of more modestie for certaine causes forbeare to write least that they with like rashnesse should enter into like follie This Familie of Loue saith he is muche increased within many Shieres of this realme which he rueth much who sâ—eth not this his greate blindnesse and follic Could any man I am bold herein with you M. Rogers râ—e the prosperitie of the housholde of God vnlesse he him selfe were of the houshold of the diuel and who would speake so shamefully or rather shamelesly againste Gods Ministers as you doe were he not one of the Ministers of the diuell I pray you consider the ground whereon you lay your foundation is against one H. N whome you neuer knewe nor vnderstoode of For that I haue heard thereof truely it is not the signification of any mans name But as Christ gaue out his name by two Caracters or letters A. and â— â–ª so I see not 〈…〉 he that is to say Christe may be as well all the other letters betwéene them two in as much as he is the first and the last But it is very farre from M. Rogers minde to looke â–ª so narrowly into the matter I remember in the Apo. 2. it is written To him that ouercoÌ„meth will I giue to eate Manna that is hidde and will giue him a white stone and in that stone â— newe name written which no man knoweth sauing he that receiueth iâ— Now if he that hath inueighed against H. N â–ª hath in the omnipâ—tent power of the most highest ouercome in that manner as is aforesaide then can he knowe this name Otherwise let him all his adherents for euer hereafter be silent least they seeming to teache GOD what he hath to doe perish according to the witnessing of the Prophete Beholde ye despisers wonder and be confounded for I doe a worke in your dayes which ye shall not beleeue albeit any one should tell it you I must also a little put you in minde of your impudent dealings You say you haue read a confession of their faith newly made which neither you nor any of your adhereÌ„ts can in any worde iustly reproue why shoulde you then vnlesse it were out of cankered enuie according to your forefathers nature and accustomed maner so standerously report of vs as that we are ashamed to acknowledge our beleefe You affirme also that much more false doctrine then you haue set out in that booke is taught among the people which to confute you complaine your selfe to be vnable to performe for the lacke of learning neuerthelesse you will giue vs a taste of this doctrine to giue the children of God to beware thereof yet many bookes you say are abroade which you haue not seene and againe some you haue seene but yet had no leasure to peruse for the vse of the people is not to let any but their owne companie to see their bookes neither wil they confer or talke in any points of doctrine but with such as them selues Nowe I pray you â—ee what a Caueat you put in to excuse your malice in that you haue not seene some of the bookes and yet those some which you haue seene you had no time to peruse sufficiently neither could you conferre with the people for their subtilties cause Loe here is like to proceede some good stuffe I warrant you For how can you
sinners c. but repent least that chaunce to you that came vpon them And againe looke I pray you howe you stumble in your owne tale You would prooue that none hath receiued their ministerie from the mouth of God you'speake of Paule did not Christ speake to him after his ascention from heauen and I pray you tell mee what ministration that euer was true came froÌ„ other then Gods owne mouth you are taught to flee such boasters like enough for so Satan hath alwayes taught his children And as concerning the badge whereby you woulde knowe them is as you set downe by publique declaration which is vtterly false For Moyses onely shewed his ministration to the Israelites Abraham to his children Noc to his familie Lott to his housholde and all the Prophets to Gods peculier children the Apostles in priuate houses c. And nowe to be short the disciples of Christe â–ª or his worde which are taught by the doctrine of Christ our sauiour out of the mouth of H. N. do confesse freely before all men the ground of their faith and religion and though you will not credit it yet it doth not followe that it is not so except this reason as God forbid should alwayes holde like as it hath holden of late Because men say I am a theefe therefore no proofe of lawe the testimonie of my neyghbours with whome I liue nor mine owne words against so simple an alligation must be permitted but all is vntrue nowe except it be to proue your false words slaunderous brutes trewe Here we finde will and vniustice on your parte to haue more rule then equitie or good reason And nowe therefore master Rogers will I euen out of loue to an admonition of you to your preseruation display vnto you a little of the difference betwixt the doctrine of H. N. yours He exhorteth according to the doctrine of Iesus Christ mentioned in the Scriptures to true repentâ—unce godly loue an vpright faith and dutifull obedience c. euen like as many of you at this day in words do but yet he with more power for he manifesteth according to the trueth that none among all the children of men shal be found meete in the sight of the Lord to beare the names of Christians boast they neuer so much of their Christianitie freedome or iustification by Christe in their vnregenerated life as they wil which hath not submitted them selues in true repentance vnder the obedience of Gods holie lawe which is administred vnto them in the seruice of Loue for to become first disciples of the same worde to a reformation of their owne wayes and not to go presently foorth with the knowledge and teach others as you do before they be come taught and reformed thereby neyther yet to iudge others therwith as you now do before they be come first iudged thereby which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the father And then being so taught vnto Iesus Christ in the holie lawe to take vp in the beleefe their crosse daily on them with Christ against the sinne which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the Sonne vntill that Christe which is the way the trueth and the life it selfe haue gotten a liuing shape or fourme in them by faith and that they through the Spirite of loue or Christ be raised vp againe in a newe life which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the holy Ghost wherevnto all the Familie of Loue or of God at this day are louingly called and doe meane by Gods assistance most earnestly to endeuour themselues but yet with much more quietnesse mought they haue rest by such enimies to all godlynesse as you are Although you be vnaquainted with this doctrine â–ª or rather true baptisme here following yet would wee not therefore haue you belye vs according to your accustomed manner and saye that we deny the holy sacrament therof And although this infallible Christian doctrine of Loue Faith Obedience and Life which is taught by H. N. in the seruice of Loue accordeth with all Scriptures remaineth yet vnknowen much lesse practised amongst you free ones or Lybertines and this true repentance which is taught vnder the obedience of the holy lawe of God the Father this true crosse of Iesus Christ which is taught vnder the obedience of the beleefe of God the Sonne and this true resurrection or newenesse of life which is taught vnder the obedience of the loue of God the holie Ghoste is nowe blasphemed despised and resisted as an vnneedefull thing of you yet is the same neuerthelesse by the Familie of Loue or of God found to be the olde and true way corespondent with all the doctrine of the Apostles of Iesus Christ and therefore so needefull that without it looke ouer the Scriptures againe so mâ—ny as be wise among you there shall no man finde mercie with God or els through Iesus Christ become saued Then Alas master Rogers â–ª alas what haue you done I hope nothing yet but out of ignorance I would then you woulde looke better into the matter for if H. N. be a minister of the Lord then you haue much ouershot your selfe I leaue Stephan Bateman to the righteous iudgement of the Lord as one in whome there is small hope of any goodnesse Wherefore the Lorde God for his Christes sake graunt you eyes of vnderstanding and a repentant heart to aske forgiuenesse for so maliciously blaspheming Gods loue and trueth extended towardes vs out of mercie vndeserued and to aske mercie for deprauing such a gratious worke of God published forth nowe in the last time to all mens preseruation that desire to walke â–ª therein whereof we shal be right glad and then shal you be deliuered from that lying spirite which nowe seeketh like as in times past with moste horrible slaunders lyes to deface all good all such as indeuour themselues therevnto So shal it come to passe to Gods glorie your saluation our comfort Amen Your vnknowen friend The aunswere of I. R. to â–ª the letter of the Familie I Receiued a letter from you as from an vnknoweÌ„ friend conteining matter inuectiue against my booke as also verie many contumelious slaunderous speaches touching my honestie both which to aunswere you shall finde me readie and willing although not with like speach of disdaine sauouring of the spirite of enuie and not of loue To all which speach touching my honestie this shall serue for answere the Lord deale so and so betwéene vs as you vniustly charge me with waightes measures wares c but the contents of my booke disquieteth your moode the which you shal finde more large in aunswering 1 The first matter you tell me that no honest man woulde assay to defende so vnhonest attempts to defend my honestie I will not in this place my protestation shall serue but if the cause be dishonest then I am worthy great reprehension but you mistake me vtterly that I reprehend
ouershot my selfe and if you can prooue it to me I shall gladly receiue it and will be redie to recant and cal backe all my wordes and aske mercie in like fourme as you haue prescribed but hitherto as I am persuaded and as my conscience beareth me witnesse I haue not in any point slandered you nor of malice spokeÌ„ any thing against you for if I did know any nerer way to saluatioÌ„ then y which our sauiour Christ hath taught in his Gospell I woulde with all gréedenesse imbrace it And if I can vnderstand that euer this your doctrin was taught publikly since christ our Lord his assention by any godly writer in Christs Church I will ceasse and subscribe vnto you otherwise blame me not though I continue in that minde which the Lorde in mercie by his Christ hath made manifest to me to my comforte The God of mercie and consolation giue you a right spirite to depend vpon the puritie of his worde written by the holy Ghoste and not to depend vpon the vncertainetie of man giuing testimonie to him selfe so shall both you and I bee brought to sée rightly into our weakenesse shall heare y ioyful voyce y Paule heard My grace is sufficient for thee For y Lords power loue is manifested made kno wen vnto the worlde through our weakenesse and all our righteousnesse is Sicut pannus menstrualis God in mercie giue vs all his grace that in séeking the true way that ledeth to life euerlasting we be not led into y by paths of errour but leade vs and guide vs O Lorde so shall we knowe thy ways aright imbrace our sauing health in Christ declared to all nations If it please you to reply I shall receiue it thankfully London the 12. of Februarie Your friend I. R. A Letter of the Familie to I. R. written by E. R. M. Rogers these are to signifie vntd you that I haue perused a booke wherof you are the authour In your preface you say you haue vsed this order to set downe the authors owne speach not adding or diminishing any thing with the name of the booke Chapter or folio I do wish that your word and deede had agreed therein I call to minde that I haue read many authours bookes within this 35. or 36. yeares and among them all I haue not found any writer that hath taken such an order as you haue done for who so euer will write to confute an Authour he should set downe the Authours owne wordes as they stande written in his bookes and so to confute them by the Scriptures orderly and not to take out here some and there some and of diuers sentences and part of diuers sentences to make one sentence You haue added and diminished in diuers places and to inlarge your booke withall you haue set downe the most part of the sentences in two places as y readers may perceiue if they do confer your booke with the Authours bookes wâ—y them with indifferencie I am fully persuaded that the sober discreet wise and godly learned do ne wil not allowe of it that any Authour should be so abused as you haue abused this Authour in wresting belying and peruerting his writings Salonton saith A false record wil make a lye A false witnesse shall not remaine vnpunished and hee that speaketh lyes shall not escape I pray God open the eyes of your heart that you may see your ignorance and repent You do ground one point of your matter vpon Adrian Gisling a man of credite as you say y he did read in a Duche booke intituled the Glasse of righteousnesse wherein the Authour doth certifie his Familie of Loue that they must passe foure most terrible castels full of combersome enimies before they come to the house of Loue the first is Iohn Caluine the second the Papistes the third Martine Luther the fourth the Anabaptistes howe good of credite so euer Adrian Gisling is of he hath not at any time read any such matter in any of that Authours bookes he might perhaps read of such matter in some other booke hauing that title I my self haue read ouer diuers of the bookes and also the booke called the Glasse of righteousnesse of that Authours writing that you take your occasion against and there is no such Castles written in any of his bookes therfore Adrian Gisling is therein vtterly deceiued and I do beleeue no lesse but those other thinges that you haue written vpon reporte against â— Author to make him odious vnto the people is as contrarie I suppose you should haue done well if you had not come in with a flourish to attempt battell and beginne a skirmish against those that haue no pleasure or delight in warre or battell but much rather doe desire peace vnitie It is not reckoned for a manly part that an armed souldier should take vp weapon and fight with a naked childe It is written Let not him that putteth on his harnesse boast him selfe as he that putteth it off If the little vnarmed childe Dauid doe come to battell with his sling and stones one of the stones may happen to hit Golias in the forhed be he neuer so well appointed for battell and trusteth in his owne strength But what you haue done you can not vndo it is too farre past your hands And where you call in doubt that the familie will carpe as you terme it at your booke and do offer if they do answere it a speedie replie will be performed I for my parte I giue GOD thankes am not ignoraunt of the Lande of strife and contention that ye walke in and as it appeareth ye haue a pleasure therein I haue wandered vppe and downe there ouerlong and consumed much time there about to my greate greefe and sorrowe for those that doe loue strife and contention would haue other like to them selues S. Paule saith The seruants of the Lord must not striue And Saint Iames saith If ye haue bitter enuying and strife in you hearts reioyce not neither be lyars against the trueth and then following where enuie and strife is there is vnstablenes all maner of euill workes In the Homilie for whitsunday the second part ye may read this sentence But to conclude and make an end ye shall briefly take this short lesson where so euer ye finde the spirit of arrogancie and pride the spirit of enuie hatred contention crueltie murther extortion witchcraft Necromancie c. assure your selues that there is the spirite of the diuell and not of GOD albeit they pretend outwardly to the worlde neuer so much holinesse I haue no desire pleasure nor delight to carpe at your booke nor to striue or contend with you or any one neyther is there any other who doe desire peace and vnitie that will haue any delight or pleasure in strife and contention but leaue euery one to the Lorde Salomon saith The sinne of the wicked is his owne snare Saint
sufficient to answer for him were they weyed in the balance of equitie You terme the saide Familie simple howe much are they bound to laude the Lorde and to giue him most high thankes and praise that they are simple Moses saith Would God that all the Lordes people could prophesie and that the Lord would put his spirite vpon them So doe I wish from the bottome of my heart that all the Lordes people were simple concerning euill and malice then strife contention enuying backbiting lying persecuting for coÌ„scieÌ„ce cause theft â–ª murder whoredome dronkennesse Idolatrie and such like should not beare so great dominioÌ„ as it doth Is it an odious matter in your eyes to be simple I pray you peruse well these few sentences of Scripture here following The testimonie of the Lorde is pure and giueth wisedome to the simple God thou knowest my simplenesse my faultes are not hid from thee He taketh vp the simple out of the dust lifteth the poore out of the mire The Lorde preserueth the simple When thy worde goeth foorth it giueth light and vnderstanding euen vnto the simple A simple mans wisdome is despised and his wordes are not heard Timely in the morning do they arise to murder the simple and poore Reioyce thou greatly O daughter Sion be glad O daughter Hierusalem for loe thy King commeth vnto thee euen the righteous and Sauiour lowly and simple is he The poore simple sheepe that had a respect vnto me knewe thereby that it was the word of the Lord. You say the zeale of the Lordes house carried you so farre that you could not stay till you had published suche matter as came to your handes I for my part can not so conceiue that it was the Lordes zeale for there coulde not any one deale in such sort vse such spenches in writing as you haue done if he were carried by the zeale that the lord doth require It may rather be gathered that you had such a zeale as Iesus the sonne of Syrach writeth of where he saith Zeale and anger shorten the dayes of life and also There is nothing but wrath zeale fearefulnesse vnquietnesse feare of death ' rigours anger and strife c. But my desire is of the Lorde that he would plant the true zeale in vs all and then the loue v3 to loue God aboue all and our neighbour as our selues shoulde not be so despised and had in contempt with many as it is nowe in these dayes You say that Syr William Moore a worthy Iustice in Surrie had the examination of one or two of the Familie who vttered much matter which you are loth to write and yet in the end of your booke you haue set downe the Articles that were confessed before Syr William Moore the 28. of May 1561. by two of the Familie of loue You would haue it appeare to the readers as though there wer two at one time before a worshipfull Iustice of Peace and one or two at an other time before Syr William Moore and all those confessours were but two parties and one matter as you well knowe for you haue or haue had the written copie of the Articles with the names of those two parties that as it is said were the confessours of the saide Articles before Syr William Moore who was not at that time v3 the 28 of May. 1561. knowne or called by the name of Syr William Moore for he was but an Esquire What false and forged matter is set downe in the saide Articles and that the confessours of them are nor neuer were of the Familie of Loue I leaue to the iudgement of the same two parties and of all those that haue had haue or shall haue the cause in question and will consider of it with indifferencie Concerning the citizen your neighbour whome you doe so often name in your booke to discredit him as much as in you lyeth although you haue nâ— iust cause so to doe I leaue to the iudgement of all those discreet wise sober and honest citizens his neighbors who haue had at any time to deale with him there or else where and also to the discreete wise sober vertuous and godly learned that haue had at any time conference with him I hope you will from hence foorth take heede how you mâ—ke any such attempts to speake or write vpon report nor belye wrest ne peruert any authours writings for lyars shall haue their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone What Authour hath written any booke if one shoulde deale therewith as you haue done with this Authours writing but there might be founde many faultes c. To me as I suppose you are vnknown but if I should write what I haue heard of you and of Maister Bateman your furtherer in this your attempt vpon report happily you nor he wold scarse take it in good part It were good and according to the rule of the holy Scripture that all fault finders wold first looke into them selues that it be not saide Hypocrite first cast out the beame out of thine own eye and then shalt thou see clearely to plucke out the moâ—e that is in thy brothers eye c. I haue presumed to be so bolde as to certifie you my minde touching a fewe pointes of your booke hoping not lesse but you will take this my simple plaine and rude hand writing in good part although it lacke good Methode and doe wish that my time of leasure woulde haue permitted me to certifie you my minde in many other paintes of your booke but for as much as my time wil not serue thereto I am constrained to hold my self coÌ„tented Thus M. Rogers I bid you farwel wishing to you as to my self althogh there be many ways paths walked in of those that do trauell in religion â—reuer the right pathway be found which is to followe Christe Iesus our Sauiour in his footsteps yet I hope our God will in the end bring vs all into the same right path and that our sinnes shall be by and through the death passion and bloudsheading of our Lord and sauiour Iesus Christ done away and be of the number of those that shall be set on the right hand to whoÌ„ our sauiour Iesus Christ when he coÌ„meth in his glory al the holy Angels with him shal say vnto Com ye blessed childreÌ„ of my father inherit the kingdom prepared for you froÌ„ the beginning of the world c. to the end I might through the power of the lord be one of the number of the elect haue I had my exercise in the Scriptures And to the end that I might be furtherer in the vnderstanding of the Scriptures I haue read diuers Authors who haue set too their helping hand to the opening of the Scripture so farre foorth as the Lorde gaue them vnderstanding thereof and although some haue in diuers pointes varied in iudgement Salomon saith
and passion is impaired and lessened Looke therfore into Christes office with a right spirite and you shall sée plainely in him the Lawe to be fulfilled for vs so y what he hath fulfilled y haue we full filled for it is made ours by grace otherwise we caÌ„not kéep the law but by Christ neither are you able to shewe vs any example that any Patriarches Prophetes or Apostles that euer were did euer kéepe the lawe of God in euery point as good requireth Nowe touching the authoritie of S. Ierome I aunswere by Ierome who writing against Pellagius doth shew two maner of perfections the one to be agreable to the vertues of God whiche is voyde of all sinne and here one earth declared in the person of Christ the other which agreth with our frailtie is not pure froÌ„ sin which argueth an impossibilitie to fulfill the lawe otherwise then in the person of christ And in déed almightie God did not coÌ„mand impossible things for somuch as Christ being perfect maÌ„ fulfilled y law for vs which vtterly declareth our weakenes inhabilitie to perfourme the same For if by any other means y wrath of God could haue bene pacified or his lawe satisfied Christ his onely sonne our blessed sauiour and redemer had not neded to haue ben incarnat to become man to work this great effect for vs And surely they the acknowledge our habilitie in perfourming the law do mightilie shake the office death of Christ our Lord leaue in our conscience such a clog as is hardly remoued Dauid demandeth Who can say my hart is cleane again God looked down froÌ„ heauen amoÌ„g the sons of men and ther was not one righteous no not one Many of the fathers did sée our impossibilitie in perfourming the lawe therfore Austen saith al the commauÌ„dements of God are accoÌ„pted to be don when y is pardoned which is vndone To coÌ„clude almighti god neuer giueth such grace to any his childreÌ„ absolutely to fulfill his law but only to Christ by him is that performed It is no derogation to our God in giuing a lawe which we cannot performe but coÌ„mendation in sauing deliuering vs from y law notwithstaÌ„ding our weakenes in performing y same And if we did right ly examine our selues our own conscience doth wel verifie the same but sathaÌ„ is an enemy heretoo the he might by pride puffe vp our minds with a vain imagination the we are able to do performe y which God in his law requireth so to perswade our minds thereby the Christs death doth smally auaile or help vs here in But of this argument this is sufficient y Godly learned are able to say much more if you require herein to be satisfied The Lord direct our minds into the way of truth let thy people O-Lord not be ledde into error by sathans practise Then Lord giue vs al humble minds Amen This aunswere is to E. R. Your friend I. R. An other letter of the familie conteyning a Reply to the aunswer of I. R. to their first letter WE haue receiued a Letter from you maister Rogers dated the 29 of Ianuarie as an aunswer to a former letter which came to your handes wherein you say was manie inuectiues against your booke as also verie manie contumelious and slaunderous speches touching your honestie c. wherevnto wee aunswere breefely he is honest that honestly doth But wee vse no disdainfull speeches sauouring of enuie and not of loue like as you vnrightly report of vs we charge you not but we saye your allegation concerning Christopher Vittell is vntrue as my lord of Caunterburie that now is can witnesse and therefore say wee looke well to your weightes measures and wares from henceforth The contents of your booke disquieteth not our moode your cause is surely dishonest then what honestie wee aske can proceede thereout but yet wee hope you haue done it all out of ignorance and therefore worthie of lesse reprehention And in that you haue reprehended the loue of God and Christ we haue not therein mystaken you at all for were the loue of God and Christ manifested in you like as you saye it is vnto you then could you not verely haue so impudently in the face of all the worlde â–ª belyed and slaundered your poore neighbours as you haue done who neuer did you harme You say if we were of God and Christes houshold you and we were fellowes and you would embrace vs but you call vs strangers of the housholde and as straungers lurke in corners c. we aunswere of such an houshold as you haue challenged to your selues wee are straungers and the feare of your rigorous dealings hath in deede made some of vs to flye lurke in corners we say still your foundation is against one H. N. whome you neuer knewe nor rightly vnderstood of and you answer that his doctrine is not vnknowen vnto you whose bookes ye haue to shewe Wee wish it were euen so And whereas the name of Christ is shadowed by two carecters A. O. euen so we haue heard that there is some meaning more then you or wee can well tell in these two carecters H. N. Notwithstanding if any man become so captious as to gather and report therevpon that we should therefore denye any outward man or creature he doth not onely mistake vs but also in reporting the same againe to others slaunder vs therein verie much You say you haue truely set downe the same mans life not hear-sayes but the trueth c. whome yet you confesse you neuer knewe then it can be nothing but hearesayes that you write And you saye that the reporters are honest and of Christes church To which we say againe that those of Christes church occupie not their mouthes with vntruethes albeit then they stand neuer so well liked of you or any other for wee knowe that they say not truely And wheras wee haue set downe the true principles of our faith and religion in a breefe rehersall which ye confesse to be sound and good yet because that agreeth not to your minde in that we confesse not somwhat therein whereby ye might haue your slaunders verified against vs which ye looke for by our own confession it is you say plaâ—sible and mockerie See into your disposition if we would accuse our selues albeit falsly with any matter that you accept gladly but if we in trueth simplenesse aunswere for our selues that ye reieâ—t vtterly Oh what nature that good is would so seeke to hurt his brethren And further ye saye that the auctor of those bookes termeth you a diuellish Sinagogâ—e or scoole and that you are not the churche but an harlot and if you and wee say you professe one baptisme one Christ one faith c. why are we scuered in Comunion Of this matter we will speake here following And where you saye that certeine of our familie haue been conuinced subscribed and recanted and haue promised neuermore to professe H.
N. nor his doctrine and yet haue turned to the same againe we do not denye but that some haue beene constrained so to doe and that it is no plaine dealing And I pray you tel mee hath the like matter euer beene heard of ere this tune that simple men who can scarcely reade Englishe because they haue read a booke or heard it read should be compelled to yelde an accompt of the spirite of the author that wrote the same I thinke not except you will allowe by like reason that euery simple man that heareth a doctor preache should be compelled to deliuer forth all his diuinitie or els to be committed to straight prison Learned men dispute with the learned it hath euer yet suffised amongst Gods ministers a simple person to yelde an accompt of his beleefe simply c. were not thinke you playner dealing better you say that wee vse the propertie of the Cuttell c. Do you not remember that the fleshly minded Iewes could not see their Sauiour when he was dayly amongst them yet they boasted verie stoutly of their sight and would not in any case confesse their blindnesse Wee stand not vpon our tiptoes as you say but we dayly acknowlege our blindnesse and waite vpon the Lord for our sight Wee say not that you are in errour but wee say that we haue through that sinfull nature of the fleshe that earthly lying being which hath wrought that disobedience in Adam where through we are all fallen beene bewrapped in all ignorance and blindnesse and for that cause are not ashamed to confesse our errour Wee will not go about to conuince you by the testimonies of the holy Scriptures for that lyeth not in our power neither were wee so dealt withall It is the Lorde by his grace that hath conuinced vs and brought vs vnder his crosse ▪ if he also conuince you then are ye rightly conuinced and so the praise thereof appertayneth onely vnto him And whereas you desire to knowe wherein you haue mistaken the author to that we saye that you haue not set downe any whole sentence but patched peeced the same without all order contrarie to your promise For you say you will not adde nor diminish but set downe the authors wordes worde for worde which you haue done euen as one may take the tenne commaundements and leaue out some wordes thereby say that God commaunded such things as for example Thou shalt haue none other Gods but mee Thou shalt not steale Thou shalt not committ adulterie c. Leaue out none not and then what is the commaundement If this be good dealing then you haue dealt well let all men iudge You say moreouer you tooke not vppon you to write against any one booke but to display the absurdities you found in the auctors doctrine which wee shall fynde perfourmed ere it be long by master Knewstub who as we suppose shall displaye him selfe therein euen like as you haue in your booke displayed your selfe and your adherents You say we apply this text My kingdome is not of this world c. verie fondly we take his kingdome not to be outward but inward vz. peace righteousnesse and ioy in the spirit which things the world is ignorant of you may expound it at your pleasure though we expressed our minde therein in plaine dealing mought it please you so to take it You say moreouer you knowe that Christ raigneth in his Church but who are the church is the question In deede master Rogers you say verie well and nowe giue vs leaue to vse plaine dealing with you least otherwise we mought happe to slaunder or belye you In your book one leafe before your admonitiō to Christopher Vittell these be your owne wordes Howe H. N. iudgeth of vs because wee acknowledge our selues to be of the Church of Christ. For that cause if thou nowe accompt not thy selfe for an whoore but esteemest thy selfe for the faithfull espowsed wife of Christ c. And nowe for as much as we vse not neither are so taught in the seruice of loue to iudge rashly or vnaduisedly of any people to their reproche like as you haue done of vs let vs intreat you to read in the booke called The prophesie of the spirite of loue the tenth Chapter sect 12. 13. 14. and in the 11. 12. Chapters throughout and then see with an vnparciall eye what manner of Churche that it is which he doth there reproue you shall finde it in deede to be that fleshly wicked nature that lying being which spareth not with his earthly knowledge to set it selfe to iudgement and to giue sentence of the godly matters which he calleth a false seede an adulterous generation of the earthly man which hath inhabited the earth with vnrighteousnesse iudged it falsely with her lyes seduced the simple oppressed the little ones murdered the holy ones of God and spylt the innocent bloud on the earth He calles it moreouer a bronde of the venomous Dragon yea of the diuell and of the earthly lying generation which is begotten of the seede of the Serpent and viperous generation which hath alwayes beene a false and a wicked whoore vppon the earth c. which church you nowe do challenge to your selues and acknowledge your selues as members of the same euen like as wee in times past haue also done Which thing so soone as the Lorde let vs see into then fell wee down before the Lorde and shamed not to confesse our faultes before him as that wee had ouerlong taken parte with that whoorishe nature of the earthly fleshly and sinfull being whome wee do nowe by Gods grace vtterly abhorre hoping dailye by the might of Christe Iesus our Lorde to see her filthie nakednesse in vs and in manye disclosed abhorred and reiected for euer more You desire to knowe of vs the difference betwixt you and vs Could any man tell it more plainly then you in your wordes haue here manifested the same Consider aduisedly of it so shall you not neede henceforth to demaunde of vs any further resolution in that point but must of necessitie if you doe well fall downe before the Lorde and crye with vs Peccauimus cum patribus nostris iniuste egimus iniquitatem fecimus You charge vs vniustly with the errour of Basilides as though wee were forswearers of our selues whereas yet notwithstanding there hath neuer beene proued any such matter against any of that companie or in any of all that authors workes which may well suffise to stop your mouth if trueth will serue to aunswer you And yet I remember that Tindall a learned man and writer in his booke of Obedience writeth these wordes Breake not vp into the consciences of men after the example of Antichristes disciples which compell them eyther to forsweare themselues by the Almightie God and by the holie Gospell of his mercifull promises or to testifie against them selues which abhomination our prelates learned of Caypha◠Math. 26.
dominion in vs it raigneth not in vs we are not seruauntes to sinne this the scripturs teach in many places but that we shall quench it vtterly or subdue if with all the motions thereof the scriptures teach vs no such doctrine being rightly vnderstoode Looke I pray you what that holy vessell saint Paul spake of himselfe after he was regenerate Romaines 7. verse 14. I am carnal sold vnder sinne for I allowe not that which I doe For what I would that doe I not but what I hate that do I. It is not I that doe it but sinne that dwelleth in me Againe verse 23. I delight in the law of God concerning the inwarde man but I see an other law in my members rebelling against the lawe of my minde and leading mee captiue vnto the lawe of sinne which is in my members When he entred farre into the consideratiō of this his frailtie he exclaymed said verse 24. A wretched man that I am who shall deliuer me frō the body of this death And in these extreame considerations and battell which we haue with sinne cōtinually euen vntil death make an end saint Paul by the spirite of God doth plainely arme Gods children and sheweth the remedie in like cōflicts saying I thank god through Iesus Christ our Lord c this is brought to passe by him that sinne is not imputed vnto vs But as Dauid saide Blessed is the man whose sinnes are couered And this is wrought only without vs not in vs as you imagine So y our battell is continual and neuer ended in vs vntill we be dissolued and at rest with Christ Iesus contrary to your assertion You sée no cause you say that we shoulde be enimies to so good a doctrine as you professe If your doctrine were good and agréeable to the holy scriptures we woulde embrace it but because it is contrarie there vnto we reiect it To forsake that false sinfull nature with you we simply agrée but with the Poet we say Naturam expellas furca tamen vsque recurret To be at defiance there with and bidde battell against it we agrée but to conquer it to kill it or subdue it vtterly in this life that we deny That God can doe this by his powre in vs we denie not but that he will do it in vs as you affirme the scriptures allowe not of For it standeth not with the glorious office of Christ Iesus that such perfection and such a conquest of sinne should be wrought in vs but that we féeling our miseries our wants our weakenesse◠might sue by peticion in earnest prayer for strength for mercy for deliuery which all the Godly in Christ his church haue euer done For we are neuer nearer vnto our God nor neuer more accepted with him then when we feele sinne as a burthen or loade lye heauely vpon vs nor neuer further of then when by illusion of sathans persuasion we imagin sinne to be quenched or conquered All such as ouercome in the battell you say shall knowe the name written in the white stone mencioned by Iohn You say further that such as haue no lust to ouercome that earthly sinfull nature but haue more lust to take part therewith knowe nothing thereof although they boast of their knowledge or fréedome neuer so much This knowledge therefore you would conclude to be in you and not in vs Your knoweledge we enuie not nor your séeking to serue the Lord vprightly For our whole care studie minde is bent to do the same and we pray you hartely to ioyne your selues to vs that you and we may serue the Lorde our God as he hath commaunded and not H. N. and his precepts Looke into the holy bookes of our God and deale not with the darke riddles of H. N. Set not vp his bookes in your mindes so highly The Scriptures are our comfort and our stay without H. N. He exerciseth a greate Popedome among you You had rather speake and vse his phrases not found in holy scripture then content your selfe with the phrases of the holy Ghost You often mencion these tearmes the lying being the vpright fréedome Godded with God the newest day the louely being of the loue c. Are these to be founde in the holy Scripture or are they not deuised by H. N. to bring admiration to his doctrine by straunge and vnaccustomed speach If the loue of God be in you as you woulde haue vs beléeue it is loue the Lorde Iesus and his holy worde and let H. N. with new tearmes and phrases goe Belieue not that God hath wrought in him any such a worke as you pretend examine his doings and sayings better you wil credit nothing that is spoken against him be it neuer so true you except it as lyes and heresies what soeuer testimony his neighbours famyliers who knewe him long vppon their oth shall affirme but according to your conceiued opinion you like him you imbrace him you onely credit his testimonies dislyking others which if you continue as you begin there is neither hope nor helpe nor conference that can doe you good vntill the Lorde shake away the mist of darknesse which ouer shadoweth your eyes through the doctrine of H. N. that you cannot beholde the bright beames of Christ his glorious gospell Your authors doctrine is not sufficiently knowen vnto some of you the fragments whereof you are but meanly acquited with the secreat part of his purpose I doubt as yet is not extant and more of his works are abroad then are come to your handes therefore for the loue of God looke better into his minde and credite not his bare sayings without warrant of holy scripture neither beléeue that almightie God hath wrought in him any such extraordinary power as is imagined The cause the moued me to write these thinges is a little booke came to my handes of late called Mans falling away his comming againe and Lordlynesse In the first section you shall finde this written worde for word H. N. his words See and marke ye beloued in the beginning when god made al things wel then was the Lorde one Lorde of his kingdome and one God of his workes there was also no more but one God and one man and they were one and had in all one order being and nature for God was all that the man was and man was all that God was Beloued when God looked on the man which he had made according to the like being of his godhed then looked he vpon him selfe as the same clerenesse of his liuing godhed Likewise when the man looked vpon his God his ientle clene vnspotted manhode in all full comlinesse in all honestie fayrenesse in all fashion and being according to the same Godhed so this was al one God the man. I pray you loke into this doctrin whiche your Authour H. N. teacheth examine it by thy holy scriptures and iudge rightly therein whether this can by any colour of