sentence my self if the Church should so appoint By which compared with his writing may appeare how still he keepeth on his woonted course against vs hath himself drawen fourth this vnfolding of his evill dealing and his wives too For the others of whom he speaketh viz Mrs Sl. Goodw. Ch. R. M. they were excommunicated for other causes then he hath noted downe And it is not our maner to cast out any for differeÌ„ce of iudgement in such cases if they be content notwithstanding to walk peaceably with the Church and to cary themselves towards the excommunicates as they should by the word â—f God But if they joyne with them in their evill as some of these more specially did with his wife then are they also for so doing justly subiect to the â—ame censure with them as in this case likewise came to passe That which he speaketh of the Magistrate is false he did not forbid but perswaded vs not to do it Though if he had or should forbid vs any thing which God requireth at our hands we have learned to obey God rather then man As we did then answer him that what we did we would alwayes be ready to approue by the word of God And now by that which hath bene said let the Reader judge whether this fellowes hard forehead verify not the Oratours saying He that 〈◊〉 passeth the bounds of modestie becommeth impâ—dent out of measure Excommunication we vse as the holy ordinaunce of God to recover the parties that have sinned if so it be his will and to keep the Church from the leaven of their wickednes If we did it not we should dishonour God and be accessary to their evill But observing it we vse the remedie which Christ hath given vs for their good and if it work not so in them then is their destruction the more iust vpon their heads and we are cleare Neyther doth the long suffring spirit of meeknes hinder but that due execution of the Lords judgement vpon obstinate sinners be inflicted And being so done neyther will this mans cursing vs for good hurt vs not his blessing of himself others in evill help them Therefore to his many curses denounced against vs I will give no other answer but say with Salomon The curse causeles shall not come but fly away as a birde and returne vpon him that allegation out of the Prophet As he loved cursing so shall it come vnto him and as he loved not blessing so shall it â—e farre from him and as he clothed himself with cursing like a garment so shall it come into his bowels like water like oyle into his bones And for his blessing of himself and others in evill I will referre him to that denuntiation of Moses against every such one as when he heareth the wordes of the curse yet blesseth himself in his heart saying I shall have peace although I walk according to the stubburnes of mine owne heart 〈◊〉 adding drunkennes to thirst The Lord will not be mercifull vnto him but then the wrath of the Lord and his ielousy shall smoke against that man every curse that is written in the book of the Law shall light vpon him and the Lord shall put out his name from vnder heaven and the Lord shall separate him vnto evill out of all the tribes of Israell according vnto all the curseâ— of the covenaunt that 〈◊〉 written in the book of the Law Deut. 29. â—9 20.21 For that which he speakâ—th of our Tents it is to be noted that this man himself desiring heretofore to partake with vs in the Lords supper did in our publick meeting compare our and all true Churches to the Tents of Shem the assemblies of the Church of England whither now he is returned to the Tents of Corah Dathan Abiram What remayneth therefore but that according to the words of his owne mouth and course of his own walking he be left to the Lord the iealous God that judged Corah his coÌ„pany Who also is the God of Shem will performe to the soÌ„nes of Iapheth whoÌ„ he perswadeth to dwell in Shems tents according to his promise made of old to Abraham sonne of Shem Father of the faithfull of all nations saying I will blesse them that blesse thee and curse them that curse thee Gen. 12.3 For that which he annexeth about fatherles children himself knoweth we approve no such dealing And some of the persons to whom they were comitted are departed this life The living belike could not serve his turne but he will digge into the graves of the dead who cannot answer for themselves Or if he meane of any that are alive why gave he not after his maner some knowledg who they be Would he not that the matter should have ben considered and answer made accordingly Or would he that we should speake what we heare concerning a fatherles child who was long since with that woman who is now this Whites wife and ran away from her who knoweth best her self how she vsed her For our selues we mislike all hard and evill vsage of any much more savage and cruell dealing to fatherles children who ought most of all to be pityed and holpen If any such have more specially felt their part of our common troubles and poverty why will he not consider his Lords the Prelates their savage and cruell dealing with vs who have made many poore orphanes and widowes among vs besides many other great calamities brought vpon vs by their meanes Of which to begin to speak were to enter into an Ocean sea so many and great they are and not vnknowen to this White himself howsoever he can like now to sayle in that sea where putting away a good conscience he hath concerning the faith made shipwrack For that which he saith of W.C. the man himself affirmeth that be spake not these words at all which he hath printed of him and that he told this Whites wife before the book was published and spake it synce to his owne face that it is a lye Some words he confesseth he spake which were evill but those also spoken by him about a yeare before he ioyned to the Church as himself testifyeth Yet White obiecteth his speach as the confession of our own members affirming also what he hath printed to be spoken before many witnesses Which if it were yet till we should know it after knowledg dealing with him find him obstinate in such evill how could we but have him still a member among vs But if such speaches yea or publick writings of the members of the Church of England would content men as White will with this content himself how easy were it for his one to to produce a thousand and none of them perverted neyther The conclusion of his Libell is like the rest The censures of Christ in his Church he blasphemously calleth our fond excommunications which before in like manner he
termed our Buls of excoÌ„munications Suerly God that will not hold him guiltles that taketh his Name in vaine will never suffer such prophanation of his Name and ordinance to go in vaine Such deâ—iding and despising of the Lord and his ordinances is fearfull And a fearfull thing it is to fall into the hands of the living God All his Lords the Prelates authority and authorizing of his book to be published as himself alledged here before the Magistrates will not help him before the Lord who is a consuming fier From whom what can he or any so persisting look for els but to be cast out from his presence and to have their portion among the cursed to heare that fearfull sentence Go ye cursed into everlasting fier which is prepared for the Divell and his Angels Mat. 25.41 And thus hath this Esau shewed himself to be one of those prophane of whom he speaketh here hardened in his sinne and prophanenes and of which also he spake in the Preface at the beginning of his book That in him might be seen the truth of that which SalomoÌ„ saith The lippes of a foole devoure himself The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishnes and the latter end of his mouth is wicked madnes that thus also it might appeare how far he is froÌ„ being of the Israel of God that follow peace and holynes without which no man shall see the Lord. Heb. 12.14 TOwching his postscript about T. C. the man himself saith he is falsely traduced by him as he was likewise accused by some other here to Magistrates for the same thing who could not prove it against him when the matter came to be examined And see here still the bad dealing of this man who publisheth his name in this manner to the world onely vpon an hear-say not knowing whether the thing were true or false and then also when he heard withall that he had greatly bewayled his sinne and had not afterward given him any iust or needfull cause so to do For the casting of him out it was thought meet and good considering his former dealing the present case so to proceed yet not without differeÌ„ce of judgment in some of vs thereabout But he was shortly after received in againe being repentant for his sinne Now here let the Reader observe how this man which blameth others for not forgiving of penitent sinners hath not ceased throughout his book to publish and object the sinnes of such against the whole Church and the parties themselves besides the manifold falsehoods and blasphemies into which also he is â—un But his madnes is become manifest to men and his judgement sleepeth not with God who will remember and reward him according to his workes Nehem. 6.14 2 Tim. 4.14 A note of the particulars spoken of before pag. 62. wherein we differ from the Dutch and French Churches of this city wherabout we have had dealing with such of their Ministers as by the rest of their Eldership were deputed therevnto 1. THat the estate of the Dutch Church of Amst. is such as being one yet it meeteth in three severall places whereby it commeth to passe that the whole Church cannot come together in one the Ministers cannot together with the flock sanctify the Lords day the presence of the members of the Church cannot certainly be knowen and finally no publick action whether excommunication or any other can rightly be performed Which is contrary to these Scriptures 1 Cor. 12.27 11.20 23. Math. 18 17. with 1 Cor. 5 4. Act. 6.2 5. Numb 8.9 Act. 20.28 2. They baptize the seed of them who are no members of any visible Church of whom moreover they haue not care as of meÌ„bers neyther admit their pareÌ„ts to the Lords Supper Gen. 17.7 9 10 11. 1 Cor. 7.14 Exod. 12.48 with 2 Chron. 30.6 c. Numb 9.13 Hos. 2.2.4 with Rev. 17.1 Ezech. 16.59 c. 3. In the publick worship of God they have devised vse an other forme of prayer besides that which Christ our Lord hath prescribed Mat. 6. reading out of a book certaine prayers invented and imposed by man Exod. 20.4.5 and 30.9 with Psal. 141.2 and Rev. 8.3 Lev. 10.1 Esa. 29.13 with Math. 15.9 Rom. 8.26 Eph. 4.8 1 Pet. 2.5 4. That rule and commaundement of Christ 18.15.16.17 they neither obserue nor suffer rightly to be observed among them 5. They worship God in the Idol-temples of Antichrist Exod. 20.4 with Deut. 12.2.3 2 18.11.12 c. 6 The Ministers have their set maintenance after an other maner then Christ hath ordeined 1 Cor. 9.14 And that also such as by which any Ministery at all whether popish or other whatsoever might be mainteyned 7. Their Elders chaunge yearely and do not continew in their office according to the doctrine of the Apostles and practise of the primitive Churches Rom. 12.4.5.6.7.8 1 Cor. 12.11.12 c. Act 20.17.28 1 5.1.2 3.4 See also Numb 8.24 c. 8. They celebrate Mariage in the Church as if it were a part of the Ecclesiasticall administration whereas it is in the nature of it meerly civill Ruth 4. chap. Heb. 13.4 1 Cor. 7.2 9. They vse a new censure of SuspensioÌ„ which Christ hath not appointed Math. 28.20 Gal. 3.15 2 Tim. 3.16.17 10. They observe dayes and tymes consecrating certyan dayes in the yeare to the Nativity Resurrection Ascension of Christ c. Exod. 20. Commaundement 2. 4. Rev. 1.10 1 Cor. 10.1 â— Act. 20.7 Col. 2.16.17 Esa 66.23 Gal. 4.10.11 11. They receive vnrepentant excommunicates to be members of their Church which by this meanes becommeth one body with such as be delivered vnto Sathan 1 Cor. 5.5 1 Tim. 1.20 About this matter we had dealing with them divers tymes heretofore And we desired that knowledg thereof might by themselves be giveÌ„ to the whole body of their Church or that they would take order that it might be done by vs. But they refused both Whereabout we had afterward some further dealing with them In which time divers messages and answers passed between vs. Which we had thought here to have inserted but now think good for the present to forbeare them Wishing rather that they might be buried amoÌ„g themselves by amendement hereafter then that we should be constreyned eyther by themselves or others as we are already too much provoked to publish them to the world for the further manifestation and clearing of our cause and maner of dealing with them The cautions spoken of before pag. 34. 68. concerning the question following Question Whether such as sometimes have fallen from the truth may afterward by the Church be taken into office Answer We take it not to be meet without these and the like cautious viz. FIrst that there be due consideration had both of the nature of the thing and of the quality of the persons and also of the estate of the Church For the nature of the thing 1. Whether it be from the trueth to the
also when any of the Church yea or the whole do transgresse eyther in some thing which yet they have not seen or whereinto now they are fallen they are notwithstanding a true visible Church And by their calling and covenant they have power in Christ to redresse them Which when vpon knowledg they shall refuse and â—o continue then are they to be esteemed according as their case shall require So then to judge rightly of a true Church we must look as the Apostles did at their calling and coÌ„munion in the Gospell Which being observed it wil be easy to put difference between the errours and the constitution of true Churches as Christ and his Apostles did in the Churches of Asia Achaia Galatia c. to reprove them for the one and yet to approue them as true Churches for the other And this also vntill Christ himself remove his candlestick and take away his kingdome from among them which is to be left vnto him to do when as it pleaseth him And this also might serue for answer to the exception drawen from my writing concerning the Israelites in Egypt who sinned with Idols and yet were Gods people But it being so vrged by divers as it is I will note a few things more concerning it in particular The objection is made thus If they coÌ„mitted Idolatry vvith the Idols of Egypt hovv were they then a company of faithfull people separated from all false vvayes I answer By the Lords former calling of them to the obedience of himself who was by covenant the Lord their God and they his people Gen. 12. 17. 46. vvith Exod. 2.23.24.25 3.7 8.15.16 Numb 20.16 Deut. 26.7 Which also is laid as the ground of the admonition for calling of them from that Idolatry spoken of Ezech. 20.7 And may not a people so separated as aforesaid fall into this sinne of Idolatry aswell as into other sinnes See the case of Israel afterward againe Exod. 32. Where Moses in his prayer to God calleth Israell the Lords people even then when they had coÌ„mitted such Idolatry as the Lord would presently have consumed theÌ„ for it Exod. 32.1.10.11 And of Israell againe see what is recorded Iudg. 2. c. And likewise of the Church of Rome which at first was a true Church separated from all false wayes yet fell into this sinne and coÌ„tinueth therein Rom. 1.6.7.8 16.19 vvith Rev. â— 13. and 14. 17. chap. But this was the generall estate of the Israelites at that tyme. What then So may it fall out with a true Church as now hath ben shewed and so we are taught Lev. 4.13.14 Yet here also might be demaunded whether he meane it to be so generall as including all of Israel therein specially considering what is written of some in those tymes Ex. 1. 2. 6 20-27 Numb 1. vvith Heb. 11.23 c. And whether this Idolatry were publike or private like as that spoken of Ezech. 8 12. Zeph. 1.1.4.5 But howsoever their sinne vvas also of obstinacy for they vvere admonished from the Lord yet they rebelled against him as the Scripture sheweth Ezech. 20.7.8 And even the same Scripture sheweth also that for this cause they deserved themselves God thought to haue powred out his indignation vpon them but stayed it in respect of his ovvn Name which is called vpoÌ„*his Churches people not because of their estate as now it was Ezec. 20.7.8.9 And how doth this then overthrow not rather coÌ„firme the desâ—ription aforesaid Or must we not alway desribe esteem a Church by the conditioÌ„ thereof according to the revealed word of God yet leave vnto the Lord to esteem deale therewith notwithstanding as in any respect seemeth good vnto himself Or when God saith he is the Lord their God and calleth them his sonne and first borne whom he might in respect of their own estate cast of can we not so esteem of them but we must therevpon conclude that in the description of a true visible Church Idolatrie and all false wayes are not to be excluded or to speak of the questions controverted at this day that Rome in all her Idolatries is notwithstanding still to be reputed the spouse of Christ and not to be rejected as an harlot and so likewise all the Churches that be her daughters in that estate Againe what if it were as some think that Israell first rebelling and so provoking God to wrath as is aforesaid did afterward through the affliction which by Pharaoh was encreased vpon them turne into their own hart and crie vnto the Lord God of their fathers as we read Exod. 2. and 3. Numb 20.16 Deut. 26.7 should we not then put difference between obstinacy still persisted in that which is afterward repented of amended Not to speak of the Israelites estate in Egypt how in their kindred and families the Church consisted and was governed and how then they had not the word written â—eyther of their estate afterward in the wildernes how God did never so punish theÌ„ for any of their transgressions though of the same nature before his Law given vnto them as he did after as may be observed in the history So teaching all ages succeeding to take speciall heed to his written word according to it to esteem walk in all things Wherefore to end this point thus I think that for Israel all other people and Churches we are bound alwayes so to esteem and walk as by the word of God we have direction and vvarrant from him and neyther to judge nor vvalk othervvise And as Christ giveth to all true Churches their being so to leave vnto him to take it away when and as he pleaseth And for this case of Israel in particular let me further aske whether such of the Israelites as should now have left that Idolatry spoken of ought not also to have left coÌ„munion therein with the rest so transgressing and yet to have left them to the Lord to esteem and deale with them as in any respect should seem good vnto himself For that which he objecteth next out of the Preface to the last answ to Mr Ia. sect 6. it is concerning Churches wilfully persisting in errour and disobedience of the trueth and voice of Christ and shewed by the example of the Churches of the Iewes 〈…〉 â—â—â—son objected about them by D.B. For which I refer the Reader to that Preface sectioÌ„ together with that which is said in the answer to the 4. section of the same Preface and more particularly to that which I haue written about this poynt in the booke it self pag. 161.195.196 in the answer to Mr A.H. pag. 61.62 Where the Reader shall fynd what I haue written and what my judgment is concerning this matter namely that all good and lawfull meanes being first vsed towards true Churches fallen into sinne if they amend not but wilfully persist therein the Lord hath threatned to remove the candlestick
tyme to tyme while we live here on earth If then this saying of the Lords prayer as a prayer be a false way of worshipping God it was excluded by their calling and fellowship in the Gospell howsoever they fell into the vse of it If it be not a false way then were it but our errour so to think which we were also to corrrect the description notwithstanding still should stand good Now what our judgement is concerning the right vse of that forme of prayer together with our reasons out of the Scripture thereabout we haue often shewed and published heretofore in divers treatises which till they be answered and refuted I shall not need here to repeat them or to insist any further vpon that matter Onely thus much now If the vsing of the Lords prayer as a prayer be a part of the worship of God appointed by Christ then did the Apostles in the planting of the Primitive Churches teach them so to vse it For they were inioyned by Christ to teach whatsoever he commaunded them and so they did Mat. 28.20 with Act. 2.42 and 4.24 31. and 20.27 1 Cor. 11.23 But that they taught to vse it thus none can shew eyther in their Acts or in their Epistles And Tertullian saith if they regard his testimony Scriptura negat quod non notat The Scripture denyeth that which it noteth not This man therefore and such as do so hold that the Lords prayer is to be vsed as a prayer are bound to shew by the Scriptures that the Apostles did teach the first Churches thus to vse it vnles they would with the Papists argue the Scripture of imperfection or the Apostles of vnfaithfulnes 3. The distinction of faulty and false is here also to be observed True Churches may be faulty in sundry things as those of Asia Corinth c. and yet not straightway therefore be false Churches True Prophets may be faulty in divers things as Ieremiah Ionah c. and yet they be no false Prophets True worshippers of God may be faulty in their worship many wayes as may be seen in Corinth Colosse c. and yet not therefore be false worshippers By which examples also may appeare both what difference is between false and faulty and how needfull it is alwayes in these cases to be duly regarded 4. His proof that the Lords prayer was vsed as a Prayer from the Apostles age is out of Tertullian whose words be these Quoniam Dominus prospector humanarum necessitatuÌ„ seorsum post traditam orandi disciplinam Petite inquit accipietis sunt quae petantur pro circumstantia cuiusque praemissa legitima ordinaria oratione quasi fundamento accidentium ius est desideriorum ius est superstruendi extriusecus petitiones Cum memoria tamen praeceptorum ne quantum a praeceptis tantum ab auribus Dei longè simus Because the Lord that seeth mans necessities did apart after the doctrine of prayer delivered say Ask ye shall receive and there be things to be asked according to the circumstance of every one the lawfull and ordinary prayer being premised as a foundation we may for the desires that fall out we may from without it build therevpon our petitions yet with remeÌ„brance of the things coÌ„maunded least we be as far froÌ„ the eares of the Lord as from his commaundements Towching this testimony if it were a thing to be stood vpon in this case many things might be excepted 1. Tertullian lived about 200 yeares after the Apostles dayes 2. Many things were held lawfull ordinarily vsed in his tyme which were not at all in the Apostles dayes As prayer with cloakes put off and hands washed signing with the crosse and annoynting with oyle after Baptisme Godfathers and Godmothers mixing of water with wine in the Lords supper oblations for the dead Lenten fast holy water c. 3. He also followed was infected with divers errors which 〈…〉 judgement even in his owne tyme reproved and rejected As the Iewish errour of the Chiliastes that the godly shall haue a pleasant life on earth a thousand yeares before the end of the world Also that the Angels fell for lust of women That Noah Abraham and others of those tymes were righteous by the righteousnes of the Law of nature Whither also may be referred his errors about Freewill Satisfaction for sinnes superstitious Fasts heresies of Montanus c. Not to speak how from his exposition of the Lords Prayer even in this book here alledged the Papists would gather proof for their heresie of Transubstantiation and the Lutherans of Consubstantiation Againe he disallowed sundry things which were approued theÌ„ by others according to the truth As the Baptisme of children second mariages fleing in tyme of persecution c. 4. But if they think there be such weight in TertulliaÌ„s testimony why do they theÌ„ at their preaching vse the Lords prayer after their owne prayers when as Tertullian saith it vvas first premised as a foundation vvherevpon petitions from out of it might be built Which admitting the vse of it yet sheweth a quite different vsing of it then from that which now is had And let it here be noted by the way that Tertullian doth often in that book call it a forme doctrine of prayer and sheweth that Christ hath not tyed vs to the vse of those words but thereon to build our petitions as vpon a foundation according to the need occasion of euery one following his precepts Why also do they not hearâ—en to Tertullian when in the same book he saith Such things are iustly to be charged with vanity as are done without authority of any precept eyther of the Lord or of the Apostles And when other where he saith The Apostles did faithfully deliver to the nations the discipline they received of Christ And that no continuance of times or supportation of persons can preiudice the truth If they wil belieue TertulliaÌ„ their book of coÌ„mon prayer their Prelacy Priesthood crosse surplice and the like reteyned among them may justly be charged with vanity as being never appoynted by the Lord or his Apostles Neither can al their gloses perswade that ever they came from Christ seing the Apostles did not deliver them to the nations as appeareth by their writings Nor is it material whatsoever continuance of tymes they pretend or supportation of persons they may have None can preiudice the truth as Tertullian sayth And for the poynt in hand except they can shew that the Apostles did teach to vse the Lords prayer as a prayer it is neither the continuance of tymes nor the supportation of any persons be they Old writers or Churches that can be admitted for a sufficient warrant even by Tertullians owne testimonie For the Churches that now are we also refer it to our dealing with them In our writings wee haue often signified our esteeming of them for true Churches and in our walking towards
cleare testimony a pregnant sentence of condemnation against themselves and their practise Of which also I have otherwhere spoken heretofore which yet reâ—ayneth vnanswered Of the third head of Th White his Treatise THe third is that he saith we condemne others in those things that we would and do practise our selves Which he pretendeth to shew in divers instances 1. The first is For communicating with open offenders For which he refererth to that which is before shewed and so do we Adding this further that our Church is so far from communicating with such as it excommunicateth them when once they are convinced and found obstinate which himself knoweth to be true 2. The second is for making men swear to accuse themselves A thing which neyther my self practised to I. L. as here he falsely objecteth neyther is at all practised among vs eyther publikly or privately that I know of And for the matter of incest so reproachfully divulged against Mr St. this man knoweth himself that Rose White his own wife was the rayser of that opprobrious report that he had lyen with hiâ— wives daughter and that she both confessed it vnto me her self could not deny it here before the Magistrates when she was by Mr St. now of late brought before them about it as this man himself also is for a sclanderer as I shewed before For his not denying it for the clearing of himself though he were requested for the satisfying of weak brethren so to do he saith that he remembreth it not But being thus dealt withal he hath written this answer himself which here I will annex out of his owne writing given vnto me hereabout The malice and envie of this T. W. against me Da. Stud. hath appeared to be exceding great both in his often speaking of me in his book as he hath done and especially in this place where making an end of mentioning my name he thought he vvould powre forth his rancour to the full Therefore thus he saith Yet would not their Elder Da. Stud. never so much as deny the matter of incest with his wives daughter for the clearing of himself though hee were requested for the satisfying of weake bretheren so to do In these words of his he would make the vvorld beleive as if some came vnto me in frendly vvise to know vvhether I had committed incest or no and as if they required my direct answere vnto it for the satisfijng of weak bretheren To vvhich his vvords I answere First thus That there never came any so vnto me as he falsely forgeth and therefore herein he lyeth egregiously Secondly I aske vvhy he did not set downe vvhat my answere vvas to such as he insinuateth came vnto me For if my answer vvere evil no doubt he vvould not haue spared to sett it dovvn if it vvere good they vvould and ought to have rested in it Further it is to be mynded that he hath not named them that came vnto me vvhich if he had done himself saw that then his wickednes vvould the more appeare Thirdly this I do affirm That such as have spoken vnto me about this slander and reproch raysed of me in any christian and orderly manner I have answered them to their full satisfaction and to such as disorderly and reprochfully have spoken to me thereof I have mynding the persons as I esteemed them eyther passed by them with silence or else vrged them to do the vvorst they could vnto mee being ready to answere them according to their dealing vvith me as I have now endevoured to do vvith this T. W. Rose his vvife the first author of this accusation vvhom I have called before the Magistrates for slandring of me Fourthly being thus provoked by him my answer now is That if T.W. vvith his father if he vvere living being reputed to have skill in the black art had the help of him and of all the divells in hell ioyned together yet should he never be able to prove this his vvicked slander vpon me Moreover I vvould demaund these things of T.W. as followeth First vvhether he vvill denye that his father spake thus of him I misse my ayme if ever this my sonn T.W. do proue a good man Secondly vvhether he wil deny that he knowes not some that can tell of his evill dealing about Clokes Thirdly vvhether he vvill deny that he hath not dealt yll vvith some about a Bible Fourthly vvhether hee vvill deny that he hath committed the like sinne as T.C. hath vvhom he mentioneth in his book Lastly I ask him vvhether if he do not presently deny these things or any the like that by any shal be demaunded of him he be content to have it taken for granted that then he is gilty of them If this be his iudgment let him take it to himself as vvise as he vvill be othervvise mynded And thus I leave him this his dealing and account thereof to him that iudgeth righteously and so end vvith this saying An hypocrite with his mouth hurteth his neighbour but the righteous shal be delivered by knowledg Da. St. 3. In the third he hath againe cowched divers vntruths together As when he saith we condemne the Dutch Churches for baptising the seed of those that are not members of their Church Which is not so but we dislike in the Dutch Church of this towne that they baptise the seed of them who are not members of any visible Church and besides admit not the parents themselves to the Lords supper Great difference there is between these two not to be members of their Church and not to be members of any visible Church And this it seemeth himself perceived and therefore kept not our words as he had them set downe in the book alledged by himself But yet more in that he saith my self with the rest could offer to receive Mr Deuxburies child to baptisme who neither was neyther would ioyne himself a member vnto vs. For Mr Deuxb who dwelt about fifteen miles from vs being desirous that we would baptize his child we wrote vnto him that we could not admit of it vnles he would make profession of the same faith with vs be careful so to walk eyther with vs or with some other Church in the same truth of the Gospel as God for his dwelling estate should give him opportunity Which he not performing we baptized not his child And of this refusal of ours himself spake but a day or two before his death to one of the meÌ„bers of our Church a soldier who was then with him in the army where he was slayne Which things being so how then should it be as he saith further that we were offended at G I. for withstanding it when we our selves so wrote and dealt in it as is aforesaid Or how had he any hand in this busines when Mr Deuxb writing to one of the Elders had answer from them all ioyntly of whome he was none 4.
In the fourth his bad dealing doth yet further appeare it being a matter wherewith himself is acquainted and yet propoundeth not the case truely as he knoweth it to be VVe have indeed misliked in the Dutch Church not Churches as he speaketh of AmsterdaÌ„ that consisting of so great a multitude it is but one and yet meeteth in three severall places by meanes whereof the whole Church cannot come together in one the ministers can not together with the flock sanctifie the Lords day the presence or absence of the meÌ„bers of the Church cannot certainly be knowen nor any publick action be rightly performed Which reasons we signifyed to themselves in our dealing with them heretofore On the other side we misliked also that a few people being straungers together in one towne of one language of one profession in religion having not before tyme their peculiar officers should in such case yet divide themselues into severall Churches For which I required example or warrant out of the Scriptures and alledged my self divers reasons about this question And what contrariety now is there in these things being laid together as they ought with their true and due circumstances Such perhaps as the false teachers would pretend against Paul when he circumcised Timothee Act. 16.1.3 and yet would not circumcise Titus but withstood the false brethren that vrged it Gal. 2.3.4.5 The others he speaketh of were himself and some other with him who had left the Church of England and came to dwell here Touching whom seing he pretendeth that they ioyned not to vs for divers disorders amongst vs I wil here advertise the Reader a few things coÌ„cerning them and those also specially out of their own letters which being as their owne children shall also be their Iudges WheÌ„ they had left the Church of England as having aâ— Antichristian Ministery worship confusion c. they first joyned in to a Church in the West parts of England professing the same faith with vs. A while after they came over hither at first communicated with vs but afterward being about twelve or thirteen they ioyned themselues here as a body together to walk in the same faith and way as we do reputing and calling themselves a Church distinct from vs and in their letters to the Church of the West countrey thus inscribed them The Church in Amst. to our bretheren the Church in the West partakers of the same heavenly vocation c. And in the letter wrote thus For our consultatioÌ„ resolution thus it is To meet apart by our selves aswell for the redresse of disorders that may arise as also for the administration of the word expecting the blessing of God which hath not chosen vs for our multitude seeing we were the fewest of all others And againe in the same letter for our own estate though our hope to be a body distinct in our countrey vvere yet is not our hope to be a distinct body in a straung countrey frustrated but rather accomplished And afterward againe speaking of vs and themselues they say For the other Churches estate though that acknowledgment of them vvere graunted yet all things considered vvhether God doth not offer vs occasion to increase the number of the Churches and our selves to vvalk together in holynes to the Lord vvho have had better experience one of another then of that Churches estate that by this meanes the adversaries reproches of one Church and flocking therevnto setting vp one head may be stopped is the thing vve pray you to ponder Thus they wrote in a generall letter together And in another of theirs written in particular by this T. White Tho. Pow. We say they through Gods mercy haue our meetings now apart from our bretheren the Church in Amsterdam building vp our selves vvith that small ability that God hath inabed vs vvithall c. as also receiving such members as vve fynd meet and desirous of our fellowship And afterward in the same letter Wâ— haue had one meeting already together vvherein M. W. is ioyned Consider that vvhich is vvritten Exo. 7. â— and pray vvith vs that the Lord vvould sâ—nd the Northvvynd and the Southvvynd the one cold the other hote Luk 12.55 that is the liuely graces of his spirit in the preaching of his Law and Gospell to blow vp that our garden may be fruitfull Cant. 4.16 but not an Eastvvynd vvhich vvithered Ionas gourd Ion 4. Thus wrote they then of themselves By which may appear both what they intended and for what They intended to be a severall Church from vs though they were but a few and of the same faith living straungers together in the same towne c. And the cause why they did it That they might redresse disorders among themselves that they might be a distinct body in a straung countrey as they purposed in our native countrey before they came over hither that they might encrease the number of Churches that they might stop the adversaries reproches of one Church and flocking therevnto setting vp one head that they might receive such meÌ„bers as were desirous of their fellowship and that they might also themselves be a garden fruitfull c. If these things were so as then they wrote how saith he now in his book that the cause why they would not ioyne to vs was for disorders amongst vs How do his letters and his Libell agree together Specially seing in the same letters at the same tyme they write vs to be their brethreÌ„ the Church in Amsterdam of whose estate they had not that experience c. Belike he had forgotten the old saying Mendacem oportet esse memorem A lyer had need have a good memorie And further if it were as he saith now why did they not then so alledg that we might haue insisted therevpon why shrank they from the handling of the question between vs which we would have discussed by the Scriptures had not they refused as they did But if some be not mistaken there was an other cause then any of the aforesaid which they will not make knowen namely that Mr Po. this White might have bene Officers of that Church whereof they had little hope among vs to satisfie their desier Which whether it were so or not themselves know best And howsoever yet with what face can this hypocrite write as he doth that they would not joyn to vs for divers disorders among vs when but even a while after they returned to the Church of England which they knew certainly to have not onely divers disorders but even a multitude of the corruptions of Antichrist the sonne of perdition Well might he write of these things as he did in another letter of his to Mr S. W. Respice finem Look to the end For as they sowed so have they reaped not having the wind of Gods grace to blow vpon them that they might be a fruitfull garden but the worme of Gods judgment to smite them that they might become a withered gourd