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A06199 Cum bono Deo Raine from the clouds, vpon a choicke angel: or, A returned answere, to that common quæritur of our adversaries, VVhere was your church before Luther? Digested into several meditations, according to the difference of points. Extorted off the author, for stilling the vncessant, and no lesse clamorous coassation of some patmicke frogges, against the lawfulness of our calling. Logie, Andrew. 1624 (1624) STC 16694; ESTC S108810 39,602 80

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Cap. 2. Vers 11.12 where wee shall see what is his construction of the vncircumcision during that their state to wit People without CHRIST aliants from the Common-wealth of ISRAELL strangers from the Covenants of Promise yea without hope and without GOD in the worlde From hence thus I reason If there was anie salvation for those of the vncircumcision or for those without the Iewishe Church for Circumcision was their Sacrament of Initiation then was there salvation for people without CHRIST for aliantes from the Common-wealth of ISRAELL for strangers from the Covenants of Promise yea for people without hope and without GOD in the world But I hope our Adversaries dare not averre that there was or could bee anie salvation for such Ergo There was no Salvation or yet could bee without the Iewish Church As to the instances from which they goe about to instance this exception in the particular of Iob and Melchisedecke first of the first I grant indeede that it were well hard divining about the tyme or of the tyme wherein Iob lived but even from off of this vncertaintie I collect That this instance drawne from his person cannot prooue of great force and demonstratiuelie conclude this their point Next giving hee lived vnder the Law and yet was not circumcised were it safe argumenting thus to reason from one particular exemple against the constant tenour of the whole Scriptures denying salvation to those who were not inrolled amongst the people of GOD by Circumcision Yet if it should not offende I would gather for my selfe that hee was so farre from living in the dayes of Moses that at the least hee lived before Abraham out of the last of his Booke at the vp-shot from that his age where it is sayde And after this lived IOB an hundreth and fourtie yeares and saw his sonnes and his sonnes sonnes even foure generations c. Now what convenient tyme can wee assigne to him before this If we assigne to him but some fiftie or sixtie yeares his whole dayes shall amount to some two hundreth yeares or there-about Now wee see not anie in the dayes of MOSES to haue come neare this age nay wee reade not of anie after ABRAHAM that came to such yea hee lived not so long himselfe Last the whole narratiue of his historie would seeme to make him more ancient than MOSES But I take not vpon mee to define ought heere onelie I would showe that our Adversaries can argument but well weakelie from so slender and so vncertaine a warrand As to the other instance of MELCHISEDECK I am ashamed so much as to mention it but the least for hee is sayd expreslie To haue blessed ABRAHAM before his Circumcision or receiving of the seale of the aliance or Covenant and To haue teethed LEVI in ABRAHAMS loynes Truelie magnum hic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hiatus multus betwixt MELCHISEDECK and MOSES wherefore this instance is altogether 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or impertinent Our Adversaries beeing now thus deboutted from their first Exception let vs see into the seconde if it bee of anie greater force which concerneth the Priviledge of Promises I would learne of our Adversaries If the LORD tendered lesse that His Church vnder the Law than Hee doeth this vnder Grace and If the Promises were not semblablie made to her as to the Christian Church by GOD of His gracious assistance and praesence Hîc haeret iis aqua the Apostle beeing so expresse For amongst the manie Priviledges of the IEW aboue the GENTILE Rom. Cap. 9. hee reckoneth this as one That vnto them the Promises were made Nay the Apostle Sainct PETER in the seconde Chapter of the Actes of the Apostles at the thirtie and ninth Verse witnesseth disertlie That the Promises first and especiallie concerned the IEWES and the GENTILES but in the next rowme For the Promise is made vnto you and to your Children and vnto all that are afarre off even as manie as the LORD our GOD shall call c. Did not one and the selfe same Spirit still informe this one and the same mysticall bodie Quintum Meletema THat wee may the more happilie verse in this businesse and travell in this matter we would heere headilie distinguish betwixt the essentiall and integrant partes of a Church for a Church may remaine and consist whiles constant ei sua essentialia though lamed or maimed in respect of her partes integrant I know the integrant partes to receiue their subdivision heere into those which are more or lesse principall or into the principall and secundarie partes as it is with a naturall or yet artificiall bodie so that it followeth not straight That a Church ceaseth to bee there where shee is not visible but onlie this That shee is not quoad sua integrantia so that shee ceaseth onlie to bee in a certaine regarde remaining alwayes simplie a Church quantisper constant ei sua essentialia supersunt duo aut tres Patrem in CHRISTO per Spiritum invocantes there remaine vocatio activa passiva which are the essentials of a Church It resteth then that the want of externall policie or outward visibilitie praevaileth not so farre as to abolish simplie a Church But yet as to this wee deny not but that it ought to bee de jure But the quaestion is de facto and of the force of this actuall want if it bee such as prooveth destructive of the subject simplie and not in a certaine regard onlie c. Sextum Meletema AS to the promises made by CHRIST to his Church throughout the Gospel they would bee vnderstood aright which are indeede heere misvnderstood and misconceived by our Adversaries for they draw straight whatsoever promise is made to the whole bodie of the Church in common to the Romane Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nay and require the accomplishment and fulfillment of the same in everie particular Church or in everie part of the whole Now from hence it is cleare that this consequence is verie inconsequent that the Church ceaseth simplie to bee visible because this or that particular Church or yet both are devoyde of this visibilitie for first the Church may bee visible elsewhere and next the Church may remaine even there where shee is eclipsed of her visibilitie to wit as to her essentials Againe our Adversaries yet deceiue heere whilst they tye these promises of CHRIST as De firmitate Petrae De continua spiritus sui assistentia and others of the same note to the externall forme of the Church and so will haue them onelie to concerne that externall Policie for so CHRIST should cease to bee the Head of His Church and to His Church whereas the Woman subduceth her selfe and taketh her flight to the Wildernesse and lurketh there Thus that House-holder Matth. Chap. 21. Vers 33.34 should haue casten off all care of his Vine-yarde whiles hee letteth it foorth to those wicked and perfidious Husband-men Nay did not CHRIST well often subduce Himfelfe