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A87723 The unlimited authority of Christs disciples cleared or the present church and ministery vindicated. Or Christs disciples authority for the practice of his commands is unlimitted. Being a brief answer to a book intituled (A sober Word to a serious people.) There the writer saith, Christ gave his commissions not to disciples as disciples, but to apostles. But here is by Scripture proved, that the authority & commissions, given to disciples, (as disciples considered) are of a far larger extent, then the authority of commissions given to apostles. Written by Thomas Kilcop. Killcop, Thomas. 1651 (1651) Wing K441; Thomason E1377_5; ESTC R209289 19,252 48

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48 49. and so much to this His second affirmation is in p. 8 that the said Ministry is exprest Eph 4 12 13 for number names ●nd and duration all these are set in the Church ●●s institutions to abide 1 Cor 12 28. p. 9 to perfect 〈◊〉 edifie some in the world to precede the Church ●●me placed in it to edifie p. 10 Must Saints be ●●rfected and edified not by one but by all these p. 11. then is Christs ministerie breeding and feeding one prepares gathereth the other buildeth further both are one ministerie fruits of one purchase both needfull one to convert and enlighten the other to edifie and strengthen therefore to continue together the latter hath not been without the former he thinks as p. 12 I Answ Is conversion by the first part of this ministery and edification by the latter then the first must be now or no conversion now and the latter now or no edification now and then well may he opose a Feeding ministrie that hath not pertak't of the breeding ministery Secondly The denying this ministery now to be is the belying that place Eph. 4. for that as he said declareth not only the number names end but also the duration of Gospel-ministerie and that till all the saints meet to a perfect man It is to perfect till all are perfected converted as he saith by this it appeareth now to be except conversion be past Thirdly Persons ministring are Ministers that about which they minister is the ministrie the breeding and feeding ministrie is where conversion and edifying is The Jews had Moses and the Profits when they had their writings in the same sence now have we the Apostles and Prophets which is a ministrie both breeding and feeding t is breeding Joh. 20.30 31. Many other signes he did which are not written in this book but these are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that in believing ye might have life through his name And feeding 1 Jo. 5.13 These things have I written unto you that beleeve in the name of the Son of God that ye may know ye have eternall life and may beleeve on the name of the Son of GOD. Yet these writings neither beget nor feed if God assist not neither did Pauls personall planting nor Apollos watering except God gave the encrease Fourthly let us honour the Ministerie above Ministers God begets by his word Jam 1.18 somtime through the mouth of one unbegot himselfe as we see Esa 42 19 20 His opening of Perfecting Edifying I oppose not CHAP. IIII. HIs third affirmation is Scripture doth not clear Church gathering without Ministerie and Baptisme preceding p 12 I Answer true and we by the aforesaid ministery were converted and were also baptized before we congregated He addeth some say believers may consent to be a Church c. as a visible church appoint one to baptize c. I answer none but self-seekers will so say who being before leaders would be so still and so found out this by way others after baptisme by consent became a Church But this he opposeth also as if we now err from our first principles for saith he we now take not one in though he consent till the Church as in Christs name Judge him fit but saith he p 13 who at first declared in Christs name to us that Christ accepted of us as a Church but some were disigned thereto saith he a preceding ministerie converting and espousing them p 14 1 Cor 4 15 2 Cor 5 25. 11.2 8 5. I answer as now the whole Church Judgeth of the fitnesse of such as would be added so at first every particular was approved of by the whole and so we swerve not from our first practise And that some were designed to judge whether Christ would accept of a people c. is false and against the Gospell for as touching believing who ever cometh to Christ he will in no wi●e cast off Joh. 6. so also in obedience if the mind be willing he accepteth according to what we have 2. Cor. 8.12 he dispiseth not the day of small things He respecteth tender Grapes Cant. 2.14 15. and so he designeth some to strengthen weak hands to confirme feeble knees to say to the fearfull in heart be ye strong c. Esa 35.3.4 he designeth none to tell people though they set themselves to serve the Lord yet it is questionable whether he will accept of their so doing and his quotations prove no such thing Paul in one telleth the Cor. that he was their Father he had begot them through the Gospell in another he saith that he in Christs stead intreated them to be reconciled in the third place he saith he had espoused them to a Husband and in the last place speaking of the Macedonians saith they gave themselves up first to the Lord then to us by the will of God here note first their voluntary act they gave up themselves 2dly to whom first to the Lord then to us saith he 3dly by whose appointment by the will of God Had the Apostles been designed to judge whether peoples submission would be accepted off then should they have first given up themselves to them and then to the Lord if the Apostles had judged them fit Se how opposite his quotations are to him and he to them T is one thing to beget people by the word to intreat people to be reconciled and to be as judge to judge whether such as are begotten on are reconciled shall be accepted off is another thing to espouse that is to perswade them to accept of Christs espousalls by declaring his readinesse to accept of any that give themselves up to him is one thing to judge whether though people do so Christ will accept of it is another thing some were by Christ designed to the first but not the latter This Speech of his therefore tendeth to eclips Gods grace to sadden his people to bolster up people in disobedience to their own hurt and Gods dishonour who is glorified by peoples being Christs Disciples Joh. 15.8 Luk. 7.29.30 and so much to the third particuler CHAP V. HIs last affirmation is that the present Ministrie is not Christs his being p. 15. called immediatly Mat. 10.1 28.16 Ga● 1.12 with sutable gifts Mar. 1.15 Act. 1.4 8. these are Ministers of Christ 1. Cor. 4.1 Or called mediatly that is hereto impoured by Apostles for the Church and with their suffrag and election p. 16. Act. 6. Tit. 1.5 these are the Churches Messengers 2 Cor. 8 23. Phil. 2.25 these must be called by Apostles or Apostolicall Ministerie Act. 14.14.23 or by the Bride into whose Custodie administrations were left 1. Cor. 11.2 who convey gifts on them 2 Tim. 1 6 But the call of the present Ministery was not immediate nor by Apostles nor by a true constituted Church espoused by some hereto designed as 1. Cor. 11 2 according to the establish't order