haue put you below all suspition But it so falling out that the Councells were printed at seuerall times by the care of seuerall men the later they were printed the more meanes had the publisher to make further search and to enforme himselfe out of the Manuscripts more fully as wee find that in all editions of bookes the latest if the publisher apply due diligence are most full most pure and most correct I hope you will not say that the late edition of S. Chrysostome by Sr. Henry Sauill is therfore the more suspitious So that heere is neither truth in the grounds of your suspition nor reason that this last should be any ground though it were true You say moreouer that Cochlaeus sayes that hee had the Decrees of this Councell out of an antient booke but where hee got that booke or who first compiled it or of what authority it was hee tells vs nothing at all And you adde your coniecture as weake as your former suspition that it is most likely that that booke was the Popes Decretalls where the supposed Canons of This Councell are scattered in seuerall places Concerning Cochlaeus I can say nothing seeing I cannot meet as I said before with this his worke that you cite but I will fauour you so farre as to suppose you say true thē cōsider the purpose of it which indeed is none at all But for that hee had it out of an ancient booke is much to his purpose which booke I will be bold to coniecture seeing you are so for your liking was the very Originall of the Councell it selfe and where hee got it is impertinent for you to demand And for this my coniecture I will giue you good ground this that in Crabs edition of the Councells I finde an Epistle to the Reader before the beginning of this Councell the title wherof is this Bartholomeus Laurens Nouimagensis Lectori the beginning of the Epistle this Haec sunt quae ex Archetypo illo cuius supra mentio fit lectu adeo difficili summo labore descripsimus quae si cui grata vtilia fuerint primum gratias agat Deo qui horum qualecunque exemplar hucusque seruauit deinde F. Petro Crab qui hoc ipsum vt inter Cōcilia ederetur procurauit And this perhaps is the preface which you mention hereafter and ascribe to Cochlaeus for other I finde not But whose soeuer it was it proues thus much that this Councell which was first published that I can find by Peter Crab was taken out of the Original Record than which there can be no better authority and so hee saith againe in the body of his Epistle certè in editione hac sedulo curatum est ne quicquam ei ab Archetypo alienum ingeri posset And in this edition is the Decree of the expeditiō and the others which in particular you hereafter seeke to nullifie wherby those obiections are beforehand answered yet I will say more when I come to them But suppose the Decrees of this Councell had beene taken out of the Popes Decretalls the originall being lost as were the Canons of the first Councell of Nice which makes so much vncertainty about the number of thē into which they were inserted as I shewed before by Gregory the ninth but a few yeares after they were made in seuerall places according to the seuerall titles to which they were to be referred which you disgracefully call scattering what impeachment is this vnto their credit The Popes Decretalls are a testimony of no small reputation amongst all learned Christians And why I pray scatterings the Decretalls are not a collection of the Councells that so you should expect euery Canon in his order but à digestion of the Canons of all the Councells that pertayne to one matter vnder one head like the collection of the Statutes of England by Rastall and others out of which if one would vndertake to extract all the lawes made in Queene Elizabeths raigne hee must looke perhaps in a hundred seuerall places which yet I thinke you will not call scattering but methodicall digestion But these are the reproaches throwne vpon the chiefe spirituall father of the Christian world by those whom God hath like Symeon and Leui for the cruell schisme they haue made in the Church diuided in Iaacob and scattered in Israel But from whence soeuer the first publisher of this Councell tooke the Canōs thereof certaine it is that they were acknowledged and ascribed to this Councell by a testimony aboue all exception namely of the whole clergy of England in a Councell at Oxford as I haue shewed before that 12. yeares before the booke of the Decretalls was compiled So that from the Decretalls is not the first view that wee haue of the Canons of this Councell You againe repeat and say Those scatterings you belieue Cochlaeus or some other did collect together and made vp one body of them in manner and forme of a Councell But so ill fauoured a forme hee hath giuen it that it often betrayeth it selfe not to be genuine and taken out of any authentique coppie Euen now you sayd without doubt that it was Cochlaeus that set forth this Councell now it was hee or some other and this I must needs grant is very true for if it be set forth certainly it was either by one or another And if it were not Cochlaeus then haue you lost much labour in seeking to poyson his credit herein And if it were some other then is your decrying this Councell by reason of this edition of Cochlaeus of no force for then I affirme that this some other was a man of the greatest credit of all other and so the case is cleere against you out of your owne words and you say nothing heere to impeach the credit of this other which I wonder at for you may aswell speake against you know not whom as say you know not what as you doe in all this discourse You tooke it ill of Cochlaeus that hee did not tell you where hee had that antient booke and haue not wee much more reason to take it ill of you that will not tell vs who it was that first put forth this Coūcell you so much finde fault with nor giue vs any ayme to finde out this editiō you meane written by you know not whom from any other but although you heere fayle vs yet you thinke you come home to vs in that which followes and although you know not who first put forth this Councell and that wee know that both first and last haue done it in the same manner yet without relation to the publisher the very forme of this Councell you say is so ill fauoured that it often betrayeth it selfe not to be genuine and taken out of any authentique coppy Which deepe charge of yours against this Councell will recoyle vpon your selfe and by the ill fauoured forme therof betray it selfe not to be schollerly nor taken out of any
AN ANSVVER TO A LIBELL WRITTEN BY D. COSENS AGAINST THE GREAT Generall Councell of Laterane under Pope Innocent the third Wherein the many and great errors of the said D. Cosens are manifested to the world By THOMAS VANE Doctor in Diuinity of Cambridge 2. Tim. 3.13 But euill men and seducers shall waxe worse and worse deceiuing and being deceiued Printed at PARIS Anno Dom. 1646. With Permission Approbation TO THE MOST NOBLE AND MOST ACCOMPLISHED Gentleman Sr KENELME DIGBY KNIGHT c. SIR I doe not dedicate this crauing your protection thereof against calumny and censure the greatest Princes I know cannot doe it yea their owne persons are not censure-proofe against the meanest varlets Nor hereby to engage you to any fauour or defence thereof beyond the direction of your owne iudgment your free minde I know disdaynes to stoope to such a lure and mine to cast it out Let the booke suffer its owne fate for so it will hee that finds fault with it let him tell mee so and if I cannot defend it I will acknowledge the error Nor to take occasion to flatter you you are aboue it and impossible attempts vanish euen in the vndertaking Nor yet to pay you your due prayse I am below it and Fame her selfe dischargeth that debt borrowing the tongues of all men for her helpe But to testifie the honour I beare you for your transcendent worth in your selfe and the gratitude for your great fauours to mee It wants proportion I confesse to either which proceeds from my pouerty of materialls but as small pictures compar'd with greater tables so this being all I haue to offer may present mee as liuely though not so largely SIR Your most humble and obliged seruant THO. VANE TO THE READER READER Doctor Cosens since his coming into these parts hath writtē diuers papers against the Catholique doctrine and beliefe and hath shewed them or deliuered the substance of thē in discourse to diuers persons thereby to draw them or keepe them from the Catholique Communion who not hauing ability or leisure to examine their truth I beleeue thought better of them than they deserued These papers of his came afterwards into the hands of seuerall Catholiques and each one answered that which hee hapned on or which was if any was more particularly addressed to him which is the reason that hee hath more answerers than one though to them all any one was more than enough Amongst his papers this against the fowrth Councell of Lateran came to my hands to which I soone after returned a briefe answer and so the matter rested but hearing since that hee and some that thinke well of him haue triumphed in these his workes as though hee had gayned great victories that I might vndeceiue them for so much as I vndertooke if at least they will suffer it and to informe all others that please to reade I thought good à little to enlarge my former answer and to print it with Mr. Carres And others there are at least one other that I know who if hee thought fit to print what hee hath written in answer to Doctor Cosens could perhaps discouer more corruptions of his than we haue done But heere are more than enough to warrant vs to say of him as a 1. kings 5.25 Abigal said of Nabal for by his deeds he makes true the significatiō of his name and that they that rely on him will bee like those that leane on a broken reedy staffe which will run into their hands and wound insteed of supporting them D.C. OF THE GREAT GENErall Councell of Lateran vnder Innocentius the third said to bee Maximum celeberrimum Concilium Anno Domini 1215. MAXIMVM for the number of eight hundred Priors and Abbots who had no voyces in Councells but by priuiledge from the Pope was as great againe as the number of the Bishops Celeberrimum for it was euery where famous for this one thing of speciall note in it that so many men met together to no purpose met but did nothing Therfore of this so Great and so famous a Councell these be the words of Platina who was the Popes owne Secretary in vita Innocent III. Venere multa tum quidem in consultationem nec decerni tamen quicquam apertè potuit quòd Pisani Genuenses maritimo Cisalpini terrestri bello interse certarent Eò itaque proficiscens tollendae discordiae causa Pontifex Perusii moritur And to the same purpose are the words of Matth. Paris in Historia minori who liued in the same time when this Councell was called together Concilium illud Generale quod more papali grandia prima fronte prae se tulit in risum scomma desiit quo Archiepiscopos Episcopos Abbates Decanos Archidiaconos omnesque ad id Concilium accedentes ludificatus est For after the Pope was gone to appease the tumults betweene the Genuenses and them of Pisa there was nothing done Et cum nihil geri in tanto negotio cernerent redeundi ad sua cupidi veniam sigillatim petierunt Quibus Papa non concessit antequam sibi grandem pecuniam promisissent quam a mercatoribus Romanis prius accipere mutuò Papaeque soluere coacti sunt antequam discedere Roma potuissent Papa iam accepta pecunia quaestuosum Concilium dissoluit gratis totusque Clerus abiit tristis ANSWER It was called Maximum you say for the number of eight hundred Priors and Abbots who had no voyce in Councell but by priuiledge from the Pope was as great againe as the number of the Bishops T is true that it was iustly called maximum partly for this reason though not for this only for the number of voyces not only of Bishops who haue their suffrages by common right but euen of Abbots and Priors who haue theirs by the Popes grant doth mainly contribute to the greatnesse of a Coūcell Yet suppose the greatnesse of this Councell be to be measured by the nūber of Bishops only how many can there be named greater but very few in the world and therfore it may well be called Maximum And Celeberrimum also not that so many met together but did nothing as you say but because there were present the Pope in person two Patriarchs in person and the other two by their Legats the Greeke and Roman Emperours by their Legats the Ambassadours of the kings of France Spaine England Hierusalem and Cyprus with others as I shall proue anon But if to be famous for doing nothing and for being to no purpose deserue the title of Celeberrimum these goodly obiections when they are well knowne will iustly beare that title on their brow You further tell vs that Platina whose words you cite was the Popes owne Secretary and you doe it either to no purpose or else to insinuate that therfore hee was more knowing in the truth of the story or the more faithfull historian or both For the former it had indeed beene likely if hee
almost as many words as they are in the Councell which are too long to set downe heere Your further say that he that made these two decrees of absoluing subiects from obedience to their Princes and of recouering the land of Promise from the Saracens may well be thought to haue made the decree of Transubstantiation also And you say truth in that but it will not helpe you for Pope Innocent made them all but sacro approbante Concilio that is the whole Councell consisting of the Pope and the rest of the Prelats decreed them Nor haue you reason so to boggle at the word Transubstantiation or at this Councell for the word seeing the thing knew no beginning since our Sauiour as our Catholique bookes doe sufficiently proue and euen the word it selfe was in vse before this Councell as appeareth by Roger Houenden in Henrico 2. where he hath these words b Annal. ◠576 Confessi sunt etiam quod Sacerdos noster bonus siue malus iustus vel iniustus corpus sanguinem Christi posset conficere perministerium huiusmodi Sacerdotis virtutem diuinorum verborum quae à Domino prolata sunt panis vinum in corpus sanguinem Christi verè transubstantiantur Also by Blesensis who was king Henry the second his Chaplayne who saith c Blesens p. 140. Et vt gratia exempli in vno Sacramentorum videas abyssum profundissimam humano sensui imperceptibilem pane vino transubstantiatis virtute verborum caelestium in corpus sanguinem Christi c. Both these wrote in the dayes of Henry the second and the Councell of Lat. was held in the dayes of king Iohn who raigned the second after him And in both these good English authors doe wee finde the word transubstantiated applyed to the bread wine chāged into the body bloud of Christ nor doe wee finde in any story that these men were questioned for the vse of these words as if they did import any thing more in their sense than that which was the generall beliefe of that and the foregoing ages It is not therfore the Decree of transubstantiation made in this Councell afterwards which hath made such a noyse in the world as you say it hath but the heretiques and Schismatiques that haue opposed it Nor was this Coūcell for this decrees sake called Maximū omniū generale celeberrimum but because it was summoned by the Pope frō all parts of the Christian world and there met together the greatest and most renowned assembly both of Clergy and Laity that euer was in the world which therfore it ill becomes you to deride In fine the three particular decrees you heere oppose but haue proued nothing against them are first inserted into the Decretalls which was done by Pope Gregory IX not many yeeres after the Councell was held who therein vsed the seruice of one of the best men of the world as I haue proued before Secondly they are put into the number of the Canons of this Councell by Crab who as I haue also proued tooke them out of the Originall Records Thirdly they are also reckoned amongst the rest of the Canons by all others that haue made edition of this Councell as Surius Binius and whosoeuer else Lastly they are receiued and allowed by the Catholique Church the strongest testimony of all others and doe you thinke to ouerthrow them Who is sufficient for this he therfore that attempts it deserues the name of haereticorum maximus omnium generalis celeberrimus In the next place you inuade vs with an Arithmeticall argument but when I haue reckoned with you it will appeare that you are not a man of good account for thus you cast it C. But as it should seeme he that first composed it and stiled it so or afterwards set it forth and entituled it a Generall Councell had not his lesson perfect For betweene the seuenth and the eighth Generall Councell I trow there cannot another Generall Councell interueene as this notwithstanding is made to doe if it were so Great and so Generall as they say it is They count the second of Nice for the seuenth Generall which was held in the yeare 787. and the Councell of Florence held in the yeare 1449. for the eighth Generall as is there in the last session of it expressly set downe Finis octaui Concilii Generalis factus est 21. Iulii c. So that vnlesse they will make two eight generall Councells this of Lateran could be none ANSWER You passe from the matter of this Councell to disproue the title therof and say he that entituled it a generall Councell had not his lesson perfect and that because as you say they count the second of Nice for the seuenth generall Councell and the Councell of Florence for the eighth betweene the seuēth and the eighth there cannot another interueene as this is made to doe if it were so great and so generall as they say it is Truly if he that published this Councell had had his lesson no perfecter than he that made these obiections he deserued to be whipt for a trewant for neuer were there such idle obiections made I pray who are these they that account the Councell of Florēce the eighth generall Councell your reader cannot but thinke you meane vs Roman Catholiques against whom you heere dispute and whom you would make to appeare so simple that they cannot tell eight But it is not the Roman account I trow that you heere follow but the schismaticall Grecian who yet will giue you no more thankes for it nor no more admitt you a member of their Church than will the Catholiques You must know then if you did not before that the eighth generall Councell was celebrated in Constantinople against Photius who made a schisme betweene the Latin and Greeke Church they of the schisme reiected this eighth and many other generall Councells which were celebrated in the west amōgst which this fourth of Lateran you so strongly and weakly fight against was one vntill the Grecians meeting againe with the Latins in the Councell of Florence the Grecians called that the eighth generall Councell which yet soone after they reiected and so at this day allow but seuen But if men may receiue and reiect Councells at their pleasure then you may with the Lutherans allow but six with the Eutychians which are yet in Asia but the first three with the Nestorians which are yet in the East but the first two with the Arrians and Trinitarians which are in Hungary and Poland none at all And this you and yours may doe with as good reason as they doe reiect and reuile this of Lateran and aboue all the sacred Oecumenicall Councell of Trent And that you may againe fall into the fault of which you falsely accuse others you are out in your computation of the yeeres of the holding of the Councell of Florence but this I doe not mention as a matter of moment it