that_o even_o parable_n do_v afford_v medium_n from_o their_o general_a scope_n and_o the_o ground_n of_o the_o metaphor_n in_o matth._n 7.24_o be_v evident_a viz._n that_o a_o true_a believer_n be_v compare_v to_o a_o house_n build_v on_o a_o rock_n because_o they_o agree_v in_o uno_fw-la tertio_fw-la stability_n and_o firmness_n notwithstanding_o assault_n that_o may_v endanger_v their_o fall_n but_o he_o continue_v obstinate_a i_o tell_v he_o he_o be_v a_o conceit_a ignorant_a person_n not_o fellow_n as_o he_o quote_v my_o word_n both_o there_o and_o twice_o beside_o upon_o my_o call_v he_o so_o he_o produce_v a_o book_n of_o i_o which_o i_o be_v necessitate_v by_o their_o misreport_n to_o publish_v against_o the_o quaker_n wherein_o i_o accuse_v christ_n of_o ignorance_n as_o he_o pretnede_v whereas_o i_o do_v not_o accuse_v he_o for_o accusation_n suppose_v a_o fault_n whereas_o christ_n ignorance_n of_o many_o thing_n be_v not_o such_o as_o not_o his_o ignorance_n of_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n mat._n 24.36_o what_o i_o say_v be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o evident_a from_o scripture_n that_o christ_n do_v as_o man_n know_v judas_n to_o be_v a_o devil_n from_o the_o first_o moment_n of_o his_o choice_n of_o he_o what_o i_o accuse_v mr._n ives_n of_o disingenuity_n in_o be_v his_o not_o read_v the_o last_o clause_n of_o the_o paragraph_n in_o my_o book_n concern_v christ_n ignorance_n wherein_o i_o say_v whether_o that_o forego_v assertion_n be_n true_a or_o false_a yet_o christ_n may_v deal_v with_o judas_n according_a to_o what_o he_o be_v visible_o yet_o have_v mr._n ives_n the_o front_n to_o affirm_v that_o the_o person_n he_o employ_v read_v word_n for_o word_n whereas_o all_o take_v notice_n that_o he_o stop_v he_o at_o the_o last_o clause_n which_o therefore_o when_o i_o have_v the_o book_n i_o read_v myself_o i_o also_o accuse_v mr._n ives_n i_o confess_v for_o disturb_v we_o with_o impertinency_n for_o what_o be_v my_o mistake_n in_o that_o assertion_n to_o the_o saint_n perseverance_n arg._n 4._o whatsoever_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n have_v pray_v for_o shall_v certain_o come_v to_o pass_v but_o he_o have_v pray_v for_o the_o saint_n perseverance_n or_o that_o they_o may_v not_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n ergo_fw-la the_o saint_n shall_v persevere_v the_o major_a i_o prove_v by_o john_n 11.42_o and_o i_o know_v say_v christ_n to_o the_o father_n that_o thou_o hear_v i_o always_o to_o which_o mr._n ives_n return_v no_o answer_n but_o deny_v the_o major_a and_o instance_a in_o christ_n prayer_n luke_n 23.34_o which_o he_o pretend_v be_v not_o answer_v because_o all_o christ_n enemy_n that_o put_v he_o to_o death_n be_v not_o forgive_v to_o which_o i_o reply_v 1._o that_o it_o be_v answer_v in_o the_o conversion_n of_o 3000_o of_o they_o act_v 2.23_o 41._o and_o that_o the_o term_v they_o be_v take_v indefinite_o to_o which_o mr._n ives_n reply_v that_o a_o indefinite_a be_v equivalent_a to_o a_o universal_a but_o i_o rejoyn_v to_o he_o that_o it_o be_v not_o always_o so_o but_o only_o sometime_o viz._n in_o materia_fw-la necessaria_fw-la non_fw-la contingenti_fw-la which_o i_o will_v have_v explain_v to_o he_o but_o that_o his_o rude_a clamour_n will_v not_o give_v i_o leave_v but_o i_o shall_v now_o do_v it_o for_o the_o help_n of_o the_o unlearned_a in_o logic_n we_o call_v that_o a_o indefinite_a proposition_n or_o enunciation_n which_o have_v no_o note_n of_o quantity_n universal_a or_o particular_a set_v before_o it_o but_o yet_o must_v ever_o be_v understand_v either_o universal_o or_o particular_o as_o man_n be_v a_o reasonable_a creature_n mother_n love_v their_o child_n in_o the_o former_a instance_n we_o understand_v every_o man_n in_o the_o latter_a some_o mother_n in_o the_o former_a instance_n we_o call_v the_o predicate_a or_o that_o which_o be_v affirm_v of_o man_n viz._n a_o reasonable_a creature_n materia_fw-la necessaria_fw-la or_o that_o which_o agree_v to_o man_n necessary_o for_o we_o can_v conceive_v a_o man_n not_o to_o be_v a_o reasonable_a creature_n without_o a_o contradiction_n in_o the_o latter_a instance_n we_o call_v the_o predicate_a or_o that_o which_o be_v affirm_v of_o mother_n viz._n that_o they_o love_v their_o child_n materia_fw-la contingens_fw-la that_o be_v that_o which_o may_v be_v or_o not_o be_v in_o mother_n for_o one_o branch_n of_o natural_a corruption_n be_v to_o be_v without_o natural_a affection_n 2_o tim._n 3.3_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o original_a expertes_fw-la charitatis_fw-la naturalis_fw-la scultetus_n in_o loc_n that_o be_v without_o those_o affection_n which_o by_o instinct_n of_o nature_n we_o bear_v to_o those_o that_o in_o nature_n and_o blood_n be_v conjoin_v to_o we_o such_o as_o be_v those_o between_o parent_n and_o child_n to_o apply_v all_o this_o now_o to_o the_o text_n before_o we_o luke_n 23.34_o compare_v with_o john_n 17.24_o where_o christ_n speak_v of_o the_o elect_n pray_v indefinite_o father_n i_o will_v that_o they_o also_o who_o thou_o have_v give_v i_o be_v with_o i_o where_o i_o be_o that_o they_o may_v behold_v my_o glory_n etc._n etc._n in_o the_o former_a place_n christ_n pray_v but_o for_o some_o of_o his_o persecuter_n in_o the_o latter_a place_n he_o pray_v for_o all_o that_o the_o father_n have_v give_v he_o though_o some_o be_v not_o express_v in_o the_o one_o place_n nor_o all_o in_o the_o other_o because_o the_o election_n of_o god_n make_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o those_o that_o be_v give_v to_o christ_n necessary_a and_o but_o only_o of_o some_o of_o his_o persecuter_n viz._n those_o that_o be_v give_v he_o by_o the_o father_n 2._o i_o answer_v to_o mr._n ives_n that_o this_o prayer_n of_o christ_n though_o make_v as_o a_o private_a person_n and_o not_o as_o mediator_n by_o virtue_n of_o that_o law_n of_o love_n which_o require_v we_o to_o pray_v for_o they_o that_o despiteful_o use_v we_o and_o persecute_v we_o matth._n 5.44_o which_o law_n he_o be_v under_o by_o be_v make_v under_o the_o law_n gal._n 4.4_o be_v yet_o answer_v as_o true_o as_o those_o prayer_n which_o he_o make_v as_o mediator_n suppose_v but_o not_o grant_v that_o he_o pray_v for_o all_o because_o if_o he_o do_v there_o be_v then_o such_o a_o condition_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o disposition_n of_o the_o party_n pray_v imply_v as_o to_o the_o forgiveness_n of_o all_o his_o persecuter_n as_o be_v express_v when_o he_o pray_v for_o his_o own_o natural_a life_n viz._n nevertheless_o not_o my_o will_n but_o thy_o will_n be_v do_v luke_n 22.42_o where_v note_n mr._n ives_n misrepresent_v of_o my_o word_n as_o if_o i_o acknowledge_v that_o some_o of_o christ_n prayer_n be_v not_o answer_v whereupon_o mr._n ives_n demand_v of_o i_o where_o that_o distinction_n between_o christ_n pray_v as_o a_o private_a person_n and_o as_o a_o mediator_n be_v find_v i_o reply_v in_o john_n 17.24_o and_o matth._n 26.39_o compare_v together_o which_o i_o will_v have_v make_v out_o but_o that_o he_o drown_v i_o with_o his_o stentorian_a voice_n and_o pilate-like_a ask_v a_o question_n which_o he_o will_v not_o take_v a_o answer_n to_o john_n 18.38_o i_o shall_v say_v only_o thus_o much_o now_o that_o in_o the_o one_o he_o pray_v for_o those_o that_o be_v give_v to_o he_o in_o the_o other_o place_n for_o the_o prevention_n of_o his_o own_o death_n the_o grant_n whereof_o will_v have_v render_v he_o uncapable_a of_o be_v our_o mediator_n 3._o i_o now_o reply_n what_o i_o have_v then_o for_o substance_n in_o my_o thought_n when_o i_o discourse_v with_o mr._n ives_n but_o prevent_v in_o speak_v it_o &_o many_o other_o thing_n by_o his_o uncivil_a demeanour_n that_o in_o strictness_n of_o speech_n there_o be_v no_o prayer_n but_o what_o be_v absolute_a which_o i_o ground_n upon_o the_o nature_n of_o prayer_n viz._n a_o submiss_a representation_n of_o our_o will_n before_o god_n to_o the_o end_n it_o may_v be_v perform_v by_o he_o the_o representation_n of_o a_o velleity_n whereby_o we_o will_v will_v a_o thing_n if_o something_o do_v not_o hinder_v be_v not_o prayer_n proper_o so_o call_v the_o word_n be_v ames_n translate_v out_o of_o his_o coronis_n art_n 5._o cap._n 5._o which_o yet_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o arminius_n himself_o as_o the_o say_a dr._n ames_n there_o assure_v we_o upon_o the_o report_n of_o credible_a person_n who_o hear_v arminius_n in_o his_o public_a disputation_n deliver_v himself_o to_o that_o effect_n i_o find_v also_o the_o same_o assertion_n in_o becanus_n sum._n theol._n tom._n 5._o cap._n 17._o quest_n 3._o where_o among_o other_o reason_n he_o give_v this_o which_o be_v popular_a and_o plain_a nam_fw-la nostra_fw-la oratio_fw-la debet_fw-la esse_fw-la conjuncta_fw-la cum_fw-la certa_fw-la spe_fw-la seu_fw-la fiducia_fw-la consequendi_fw-la id_fw-la quod_fw-la petimus_fw-la
〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o the_o saint_n perseverance_n assert_v in_o its_o positive_a ground_n and_o vindicated_n from_z all_z material_a exception_n against_o it_o occasion_v by_o a_o late_a immodest_a account_n of_o two_o conference_n upon_o that_o point_n between_o tho._n danson_n and_o mr._n jer._n ives_n publish_v by_o the_o say_a mr._n ives_n which_o account_n be_v also_o herein_o rectify_v and_o its_o falsehood_n detect_v to_o the_o just_a shame_n of_o the_o publisher_n by_o tho._n danson_n sometime_o fellow_n of_o magd._n coll._n oxon_n and_o preacher_n of_o the_o word_n at_o sandwich_n in_o kent_n he_o that_o be_v first_o in_o his_o own_o cause_n seem_v just_a but_o his_o neighbour_n come_v and_o search_v he_o prov._n 18.17_o he_o that_o answer_v a_o matter_n before_o he_o hear_v it_o it_o be_v folly_n and_o shame_n unto_o he_o verse_n 13._o london_n print_v for_o tho._n parkhurst_n at_o the_o bible_n and_o three_o crown_n in_o cheapside_n 1672._o to_o the_o reader_n reader_n if_o thou_o be_v so_o judicious_a as_o to_o see_v and_o censure_v it_o as_o a_o fault_n in_o i_o to_o enter_v the_o list_n with_o such_o a_o person_n as_o mr._n ives_n of_o who_o for_o the_o immorality_n of_o his_o conversation_n they_o be_v ashamed_a who_o agree_v with_o he_o in_o opinion_n and_o all_o christian_n by_o profession_n have_v cause_n to_o be_v for_o his_o detestable_a arrianism_n or_o denial_n of_o the_o godhead_n of_o christ_n which_o i_o be_o able_a sufficient_o to_o prove_v and_o of_o which_o he_o have_v never_o that_o i_o know_v of_o declare_v his_o repentance_n i_o willing_o submit_v myself_o to_o thy_o correction_n yet_o to_o excuse_v what_o i_o can_v defend_v thou_o may_v please_v to_o understand_v that_o through_o the_o frequent_a insolent_a challenge_n of_o some_o of_o his_o persuasion_n a_o private_a meeting_n be_v appoint_v for_o a_o conference_n on_o febr._n 12._o 1671._o with_o mr._n clayton_n and_o mr._n jennings_n the_o former_a whereof_o undertake_v to_o defend_v the_o mortality_n of_o the_o soul_n and_o the_o latter_a the_o possibility_n of_o true_a believer_n fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n when_o we_o be_v meet_v mr._n clayton_n and_o mr._n jennings_n both_o refuse_v though_o present_a to_o discourse_v with_o i_o the_o first_o not_o assign_v any_o reason_n the_o second_o allege_v his_o disability_n by_o a_o cold_a and_o desire_v mr._n ives_n may_v be_v his_o substitute_n as_o to_o the_o latter_a point_n who_o therefore_o i_o admit_v as_o know_v that_o shall_v i_o have_v refuse_v the_o man_n will_v have_v crow_v like_o a_o cock_n on_o his_o dunghill_n and_o his_o party_n will_v have_v go_v away_o sing_v io_o triumph_n and_o whereas_o according_a to_o agreement_n with_o mr._n clayton_n and_o mr._n jennings_n i_o be_v to_o oppose_v mr._n ives_n will_v needs_o make_v i_o respond_v and_o very_o grave_o read_v his_o argument_n out_o of_o his_o paper_n which_o he_o be_v so_o much_o behold_v to_o as_o he_o can_v not_o repeat_v any_o one_o without_o their_o assistance_n and_o when_o he_o have_v do_v and_o be_v desire_v to_o change_v turn_n and_o become_v respondent_fw-la he_o complain_v of_o weariness_n i_o be_v not_o unwilling_a to_o debate_v the_o point_n once_o more_o because_o regula_n be_v index_n svi_fw-la &_o obliqui_fw-la i_o think_v the_o best_a mean_a for_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o my_o friend_n at_o who_o request_n i_o undertake_v it_o be_v the_o discuss_n of_o the_o positive_a ground_n of_o the_o saint_n perseverance_n how_o mr._n ives_n demean_v himself_o all_o that_o know_v he_o though_o absent_a can_v tell_v as_o perfect_o as_o they_o that_o be_v present_a it_o be_v no_o news_n to_o they_o that_o he_o interrupt_v i_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o a_o sentence_n pretend_v he_o know_v what_o i_o be_v about_o to_o say_v nor_o that_o he_o make_v frequent_a diversion_n by_o address_n to_o the_o people_n many_o of_o who_o therefore_o call_v often_o on_o he_o to_o turn_v about_o to_o his_o antagonist_n and_o tell_v he_o he_o come_v not_o to_o dispute_v with_o they_o but_o with_o mr._n danson_n nor_o that_o he_o will_v not_o repeat_v the_o argument_n when_o he_o be_v respondent_fw-la but_o now_o and_o then_o at_o his_o own_o list_n and_o when_o he_o do_v will_v bear_v i_o down_o and_o many_o other_o reverend_a minister_n and_o private_a christian_n that_o my_o proof_n be_v not_o direct_v to_o the_o proposition_n by_o he_o deny_v and_o will_v often_o repeat_v they_o in_o word_n quite_o contrary_a to_o i_o and_o yet_o outface_v we_o all_o that_o he_o do_v his_o opponent_n right_o and_o this_o indeed_o be_v his_o carriage_n from_o first_o to_o last_o more_o or_o less_o so_o that_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o either_o that_o he_o have_v not_o read_v or_o not_o understand_v or_o through_o the_o freedom_n of_o his_o will_n have_v disobey_v the_o dictate_v of_o his_o understanding_n that_o passage_n of_o the_o publisher_n of_o hoard_n be_v god_n love_n to_o mankind_n in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o reader_n if_o any_o shall_v use_v rail_v speech_n or_o unnecessary_a diversion_n from_o the_o cause_n i_o shall_v ever_o interpret_v that_o to_o be_v a_o strong_a sign_n of_o a_o weak_a cause_n or_o at_o least_o i_o shall_v think_v it_o to_o be_v a_o argument_n of_o a_o obstinate_a mind_n who_o neither_o know_v how_o to_o yield_v to_o the_o truth_n nor_o yet_o to_o defend_v his_o error_n on_o the_o second_o of_o march_n mr._n ives_n write_v a_o letter_n to_o i_o which_o be_v since_o print_v to_o give_v he_o a_o meeting_n that_o our_o conference_n may_v be_v publish_v by_o mutual_a consent_n which_o i_o may_v well_o have_v wonder_v at_o have_v not_o my_o own_o experience_n assure_v i_o that_o he_o be_v more_o bold_a than_o wise_a which_o motion_n i_o reject_v as_o have_v so_o mean_v a_o opinion_n of_o my_o own_o ability_n as_o not_o to_o think_v any_o thing_n of_o i_o much_o less_o such_o a_o ramble_a discourse_n as_o through_o his_o default_n that_o be_v which_o i_o have_v with_o he_o worthy_a of_o public_a view_n yet_o have_v he_o publish_v a_o impartial_a account_n of_o our_o discourse_n as_o he_o pretend_v but_o whether_o it_o be_v so_o or_o no_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o note_n or_o memory_n of_o the_o auditor_n from_o who_o i_o know_v it_o have_v be_v easy_a to_o procure_v a_o testimonial_a but_o that_o i_o judge_v it_o too_o great_a a_o honour_n to_o such_o a_o man_n as_o mr._n ives_n be_v know_v to_o be_v to_o suppose_v it_o probable_a that_o any_o discreet_a person_n shall_v take_v all_o he_o say_v for_o gospel_n i_o shall_v therefore_o only_o request_v any_o that_o judge_v it_o worth_a while_n to_o have_v satisfaction_n as_o to_o matter_n of_o fact_n but_o to_o inquire_v of_o these_o reverend_a minister_n viz._n mr._n christopher_n fowler_n mr._n luff_fw-mi mr._n parson_n mr._n waddesworth_n mr._n tho._n vincent_n mr._n maddox_n mr._n veal_n mr._n peachy_n mr._n charles_n morton_n mr._n carslake_n beside_o other_o who_o name_n at_o present_a occur_v not_o and_o these_o sober_a private_a christian_n mr._n summer_n mr._n farthing_n mr._n jeffreys_n inhabitant_n of_o southwark_n mr._n parkhurst_n mr._n anion_n citizen_n of_o london_n with_o other_o too_o many_o to_o enumerate_v who_o be_v present_a at_o one_o or_o both_o our_o discourse_n and_o they_o will_v attest_v how_o often_o i_o be_v force_v to_o hold_v my_o tongue_n through_o his_o clamour_n his_o stentorian_a voice_n drown_v i_o that_o i_o can_v not_o be_v hear_v when_o it_o be_v my_o turn_n to_o speak_v how_o often_o he_o will_v needs_o make_v i_o father_n his_o brat_n i_o mean_v acknowledge_v those_o word_n for_o i_o which_o indeed_o be_v his_o own_o etc._n etc._n the_o publication_n of_o our_o conference_n have_v lay_v i_o under_o a_o kind_n of_o necessity_n of_o reply_v i_o say_v a_o kind_n of_o necessity_n because_o i_o have_v indeed_o so_o modest_a a_o confidence_n of_o my_o own_o reputation_n when_o put_v in_o competition_n with_o mr._n ives_n as_o that_o i_o can_v without_o solicitude_n about_o the_o event_n have_v leave_v the_o world_n to_o its_o liberty_n of_o belief_n which_o of_o we_o two_o be_v the_o liar_n and_o have_v think_v silence_n the_o fit_a answer_n but_o that_o which_o chief_o induee_v i_o to_o reply_v be_v the_o opportunity_n put_v into_o my_o hand_n to_o clear_v up_o this_o point_n of_o saint_n perseverence_v full_o and_o succinct_o in_o half_a a_o dozen_o sheet_n which_o none_o have_v do_v that_o i_o know_v of_o in_o our_o language_n mr._n pryn_n have_v handle_v the_o argument_n in_o a_o large_a quarto_fw-la dr._n kendal_n and_o dr._n owen_n in_o folio_n and_o i_o intend_v not_o to_o detract_v from_o those_o author_n worth_n but_o i_o know_v that_o the_o price_n of_o those_o book_n hinder_v the_o buy_n
of_o god_n be_v make_v to_o all_o true_a believer_n but_o such_o be_v this_o ergo_fw-la it_o be_v make_v to_o all_o true_a believer_n i_o prove_v my_o major_n because_o the_o israel_n of_o god_n contain_v all_o true_a believer_n according_a to_o gal._n 6.16_o i_o prove_v further_o that_o this_o promise_v jer._n 32._o belong_v to_o all_o true_a believer_n from_o a_o promise_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n of_o the_o same_o import_n viz._n a_o promise_n of_o perseverance_n joh._n 10.28_o whence_o i_o argue_v that_o if_o this_o promise_v belong_v to_o all_o true_a believer_n than_o so_o do_v that_o jer._n 32._o but_o this_o do_v ergo_fw-la that_o as_o for_o what_o he_o urge_v of_o mr._n fowler_n as_o aid_v i_o though_o i_o acknowledge_v his_o worth_n much_o beyond_o i_o yet_o i_o will_v appeal_v to_o mr._n fewler_n and_o any_o of_o the_o sober_a hearer_n whether_o mr._n fowler_n do_v not_o often_o tell_v mr._n ives_n i_o do_v but_o repeat_v what_o mr._n danson_n say_v and_o mr._n ives_n disingenuity_n be_v remarkable_a that_o he_o leave_v out_o the_o word_n spiritual_a which_o i_o do_v often_o perhaps_o not_o always_o add_v as_o a_o limitation_n of_o the_o promise_v make_v to_o israel_n which_o under_o they_o as_o type_n agree_v to_o the_o believer_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o where_o he_o bring_v in_o the_o same_o argument_n in_o other_o word_n as_o a_o new_a argument_n he_o abuse_v i_o for_o all_o that_o be_v ingenuous_a of_o the_o auditor_n will_v bear_v i_o witness_v that_o by_o the_o many_o break_v through_o his_o impertinent_a harangue_n which_o he_o have_v have_v so_o much_o wit_n as_o to_o leave_v out_o in_o the_o discourse_n i_o be_v fain_o to_o repeat_v the_o same_o argument_n over_o and_o over_o to_o gain_v a_o answer_n i_o urge_v also_o heb._n 8.10_o which_o evident_o prove_v that_o the_o same_o promise_v make_v to_o the_o israel_n of_o god_n jer._n 32.38_o and_o jer._n 31.33_o agree_v to_o other_o than_o they_o viz._n all_o true_a believer_n and_o let_v any_o impartial_a person_n read_v his_o own_o report_n of_o his_o answer_n and_o they_o shall_v find_v it_o mere_a word_n and_o that_o he_o do_v himself_o as_o little_a service_n to_o evade_v the_o argument_n as_o a_o mouse_n in_o a_o tar-barrel_n with_o all_o her_o struggle_a to_o get_v out_o i_o urge_v further_o that_o if_o the_o whole_a covenant_n of_o grace_n make_v with_o israel_n jer._n 32.38_o belong_v to_o all_o believer_n than_o part_n of_o it_o viz._n the_o promise_n of_o perseverance_n ver_fw-la 40._o but_o the_o whole_a do_v ergo_fw-la that_o part_n the_o consequence_n which_o he_o still_o ignorant_o call_v the_o major_a i_o prove_v because_o that_o branch_n of_o it_o be_v contain_v under_o the_o whole_a as_o a_o particular_a under_o a_o universal_a and_o whereas_o he_o bring_v i_o in_o say_v heb._n 8.10_o be_v part_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n and_o therefore_o the_o whole_a that_o be_v false_a and_o mr._n fowler_n be_v interposure_n though_o he_o base_o conceal_v what_o he_o say_v be_v to_o reprove_v he_o for_o a_o undue_a repeat_n of_o my_o word_n which_o be_v as_o mr._n fowler_n tell_v he_o that_o heb._n 8._o being_n part_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n belong_v to_o all_o believer_n under_o the_o title_n of_o the_o israel_n of_o god_n because_o the_o whole_a do_v 2._o as_o mr._n ives_n deny_v the_o promise_n jer._n 32.40_o be_v make_v to_o all_o believer_n so_o he_o deny_v that_o it_o be_v a_o promise_n of_o perseverance_n at_o all_o but_o that_o they_o may_v be_v read_v but_o let_v they_o not_o depart_v from_o i_o and_o for_o this_o quote_v calvin_n who_o he_o name_v not_o in_o the_o conference_n and_o subjoin_v ver_fw-la 39_o that_o they_o may_v fear_v i_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v he_o that_o the_o word_n viz._n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v render_v and_o so_o own_a by_o the_o remonstrant_n and_o other_o that_o they_o may_v not_o depart_v ut_fw-la non_fw-la recedant_fw-la as_o for_o calvin_n he_o manifest_v his_o impudence_n to_o the_o height_n in_o father_v such_o a_o interpretation_n on_o he_o let_v any_o one_o that_o understand_v latin_a read_v his_o comment_n on_o jer._n 32.40_o and_o believe_v their_o own_o eye_n calvin_n do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v any_o such_o translation_n of_o the_o hebrew_n word_n but_o only_o what_o our_o translation_n follow_v as_o for_o ver_fw-la 39_o that_o make_v against_o mr._n ives_n for_o the_o sense_n be_v the_o very_a same_o with_o ver_fw-la 40._o viz._n a_o promise_n of_o perseverance_n iâ—_n the_o fear_n of_o god_n this_o second_o branch_n oâ—_n mr._n ives_n answer_n be_v bring_v in_o by_o somâ—_n impertinent_a word_n of_o he_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o ouâ—_n discourse_v about_o the_o person_n to_o who_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v suppose_v it_o such_o but_o so_o order_n sake_n i_o have_v transpose_v it_o hither_o sâ—his_n book_n pag._n 133._o the_o second_o promise_n 〈◊〉_d perseverance_n i_o allege_v be_v john_n 10_o 2d_o whence_o i_o argue_v thus_o they_o that_o can_v be_v pluck_v out_o of_o christ_n hand_n can_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n true_a believer_n can_v be_v pluck_v out_o of_o christ_n hand_n ergo_fw-la true_a believer_n can_v fall_v away_o total_o etc._n etc._n to_o which_o mr._n ives_n answer_v that_o i_o conclude_v not_o the_o question_n because_o i_o argue_v indefinite_o not_o universal_o which_o term_n he_o use_v not_o then_o so_o far_o as_o memory_n and_o note_n inform_v i_o but_o how_o simple_a this_o answer_n be_v let_v any_o judge_n for_o he_o first_o for_o his_o advantage_n state_v the_o question_n particular_o viz._n that_o some_o true_a believer_n not_o all_o may_v fall_v away_o again_o he_o oppose_v indefinite_a to_o universal_a whereas_o a_o indefinite_a proposition_n may_v be_v either_o particular_a or_o universal_a as_o the_o matter_n be_v contingent_a or_o necessary_a and_o he_o repeat_v my_o word_n in_o a_o hypothetical_n form_n if_o none_o of_o the_o sheep_n of_o christ_n can_v be_v pluck_v out_o of_o christ_n hand_n than_o no_o true_a believer_n can_v fall_v away_o etc._n etc._n and_o so_o deny_v the_o major_n the_o consequence_n he_o shall_v have_v say_v and_o be_v friendly_o admonish_v of_o his_o error_n pretend_v they_o be_v all_o one_o however_o i_o tell_v he_o the_o consequence_n be_v evident_a because_o all_o true_a believer_n be_v christ_n sheep_n which_o by_o his_o frequent_a diversion_n i_o be_v fain_o to_o repeat_v and_o he_o will_v outface_v i_o then_o as_o now_o in_o his_o book_n that_o i_o intend_v each_o repetition_n for_o a_o new_a medium_fw-la and_o so_o argue_v idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la whereas_o i_o stick_v to_o that_o proposition_n till_o i_o have_v a_o plain_a and_o direct_a answer_n at_o last_o he_o say_v that_o metaphor_n prove_v nothing_o i_o tell_v he_o yes_o they_o do_v in_o that_o similitude_n upon_o which_o they_o be_v ground_v and_o thereupon_o appeal_v to_o mr._n fowler_n as_o moderator_n who_o at_o first_o i_o propose_v to_o mr._n ives_n for_o that_o office_n if_o he_o will_v please_v to_o undertake_v it_o which_o be_v the_o reason_n of_o his_o so_o frequent_a interposure_n that_o he_o may_v show_v mr._n ives_n when_o i_o prove_v direct_o and_o he_o answer_v not_o direct_o at_o last_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o promise_v refer_v to_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n that_o when_o christ_n sheep_n be_v possess_v of_o eternal_a life_n they_o shall_v not_o be_v pluck_v out_o of_o his_o hand_n or_o perish_v which_o be_v so_o absurd_a a_o interpretation_n that_o mr._n fowler_n ask_v he_o solemn_o whether_o he_o himself_o do_v believe_v it_o to_o which_o the_o sum_n of_o his_o answer_n be_v that_o it_o be_v no_o absurdity_n here_o he_o quote_v augustin_n as_o hold_v that_o some_o true_a believer_n may_v fall_v away_o mr._n fowler_n be_v answer_n i_o shall_v refer_v to_o the_o appendix_n when_o mr._n fowler_n and_o he_o have_v do_v i_o repeat_v my_o former_a argument_n and_o mr._n ives_n deny_v that_o that_o phrase_n of_o christ_n sheep_n include_v all_o true_a believer_n which_o i_o prove_v from_o the_o description_n ver_fw-la 27._o that_o they_o hear_v christ_n voice_n and_o know_v he_o and_o follow_v he_o then_o i_o proceed_v from_o matth._n 7.24_o psal_n 1.3_o arg._n 3._o if_o true_a believer_n be_v every_o where_n in_o scripture_n set_v forth_o by_o similitude_n that_o note_v stability_n and_o firmness_n than_o they_o can_v fall_v away_o from_o grace_n total_o and_o final_o sed_fw-la verum_fw-la prius_fw-la ergo_fw-la &_o posterius_fw-la here_o he_o deny_v the_o major_a again_o he_o be_v so_o dull_a he_o can_v not_o think_v of_o a_o consequence_n though_o often_o tell_v and_o will_v not_o be_v persuade_v to_o answer_v because_o it_o be_v a_o parable_n to_o which_o i_o reply_v
seduce_v by_o the_o seducer_n therefore_o they_o can_v not_o fall_v away_o of_o themselves_o be_v a_o bad_a consequence_n answ_n 1._o nor_o be_v that_o our_o consequence_n but_o this_o they_o that_o can_v be_v seduce_v by_o any_o mean_n can_v be_v seduce_v by_o false_a prophet_n 2._o that_o consequence_n be_v not_o absurd_a 1._o because_o the_o seduction_n of_o false_a teacher_n be_v most_o dangerous_a call_v therefore_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o work_n of_o satan_n 2_o thess_n 2.9_o vis_fw-la efficax_n a_o effectual_a work_n as_o we_o may_v say_v a_o endeavour_n that_o can_v fail_v of_o success_n and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d strong_a delusion_n verse_n 11._o some_o render_v it_o efficacy_n of_o cozenage_n that_o which_o will_v impose_v upon_o the_o most_o sagacious_a and_o wary_a person_n and_o by_o that_o manner_n of_o seduction_n our_o first_o parent_n fall_v gen._n 3._o and_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n that_o the_o apostle_n say_v if_o any_o man_n offend_v not_o in_o word_n the_o same_o be_v able_a also_o to_o bridle_v the_o whole_a body_n james_z 3.2_o we_o may_v say_v he_o that_o can_v withstand_v the_o attempt_n of_o seducer_n may_v be_v able_a to_o withstand_v any_o other_o assault_n 2._o that_o consequence_n be_v not_o without_o another_o ground_n to_o support_v it_o viz._n because_o he_o that_o fall_v away_o of_o himself_o seduce_v himself_o for_o he_o assent_v to_o some_o falsehood_n under_o the_o show_n of_o truth_n whatever_o therefore_o it_o be_v in_o he_o that_o secure_v he_o from_o the_o danger_n of_o be_v seduce_v by_o other_o will_v be_v also_o his_o security_n against_o seduction_n by_o himself_o a_o second_o scripture_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o elect_n can_v fall_v away_o etc._n etc._n be_v rom._n 11.2_o god_n have_v not_o cast_v away_o his_o people_n who_o he_o foreknow_v where_o by_o foreknow_v we_o must_v understand_v according_a to_o the_o frequent_a usage_n of_o the_o phrase_n in_o scripture_n a_o knowledge_n accompany_v with_o affection_n and_o we_o must_v observe_v that_o the_o apostle_n intimate_v a_o distinction_n between_o cast_v away_o some_o of_o his_o people_n who_o be_v not_o foreknow_v and_o the_o not_o cast_v away_o those_o that_o be_v of_o who_o he_o give_v himself_o a_o instance_n ver_fw-la 1._o this_o premise_a i_o argue_v thus_o those_o who_o god_n cast_v not_o off_o can_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n but_o those_o who_o god_n foreknow_v he_o cast_v not_o off_o ergo_fw-la those_o who_o god_n foreknow_v for_o the_o elect_n can_v fall_v away_o etc._n etc._n the_o major_n be_v evident_a because_o god_n cast_v off_o none_o but_o unbeliever_n the_o minor_a the_o text_n afford_v but_o the_o arminian_o answer_n to_o the_o minor_a that_o though_o god_n cast_v not_o off_o man_n they_o may_v cast_v away_o themselves_o and_o so_o cease_v to_o be_v god_n people_n answ_n this_o be_v fond_a for_o if_o they_o do_v cast_v off_o god_n god_n must_v needs_o cast_v off_o they_o according_a to_o 1_o chron._n 28.9_o to_o mr._n ives_n appendix_n upon_o review_v of_o what_o i_o have_v already_o do_v i_o find_v a_o few_o word_n will_v suffice_v they_o that_o will_v be_v satisfy_v as_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o father_n about_o the_o saint_n perseverance_n may_v find_v passage_n enough_o for_o that_o end_n collect_v to_o their_o hand_n in_o dr._n kendal_n sancti_fw-la sanciti_fw-la in_o english_a and_o in_o latin_a in_o hier._n zanch._n de_fw-fr pers_n sanct._n in_o miscell_n v._o 3._o oper._n and_o as_o for_o augustin_n it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o he_o write_v a_o whole_a book_n de_fw-fr persevere_v sanct._n and_o distinguish_v often_o between_o common_a and_o special_a grace_n as_o mr._n fowler_n tell_v mr._n ives_n and_o as_o for_o that_o worthy_a person_n mr._n richard_n baxter_n he_o do_v not_o determine_v against_o the_o point_n as_o we_o hold_v it_o but_o say_v from_o matth._n 13.6_o 21._o it_o may_v well_o be_v infer_v that_o those_o shall_v not_o fall_v away_o in_o time_n of_o temptation_n in_o who_o the_o word_n of_o god_n have_v take_v deep_a root_n in_o the_o 11_o of_o his_o 32_o direction_n pag._n 107._o as_o for_o the_o charge_n of_o antinomianism_n and_o the_o passage_n he_o quote_v out_o of_o mr._n cotton_v covof_o grace_n mr._n bridges_n dr._n owen_n however_o in_o some_o particular_n they_o may_v sound_v i_o think_v the_o reverend_n mr._n caryl_n who_o mr._n ives_n reflect_v upon_o for_o write_v a_o commendatory_a epistle_n to_o mr._n cotton_n tract_n abovementioned_a speak_v the_o sense_n of_o they_o all_o in_o his_o excellent_a comment_n upon_o job_n 10.15_o they_o put_v dangerous_a supposition_n opposite_a to_o these_o who_o say_v let_v a_o godly_a man_n be_v never_o so_o wicked_a let_v he_o sin_n as_o much_o as_o he_o will_v yet_o it_o shall_v be_v well_o with_o he_o which_o be_v the_o language_n of_o such_o as_o dr._n crisp_n who_o mr._n ives_n quote_v and_o we_o disow_v though_o there_o be_v a_o truth_n in_o it_o that_o how_o much_o soever_o a_o godly_a man_n sin_v he_o shall_v be_v pardon_v yet_o the_o scripture_n use_v no_o such_o language_n and_o the_o form_n of_o wholesome_a word_n teach_v every_o man_n rather_o to_o speak_v thus_o if_o i_o be_v wicked_a than_o woe_n unto_o i_o thus_o far_o mr._n caryl_n to_o who_o i_o subscribe_v and_o as_o smooth_o as_o mr._n ives_n think_v to_o carry_v it_o he_o forget_v or_o understand_v not_o that_o dr._n crisp_n speak_v of_o the_o elect_n but_o the_o other_o divine_n of_o believer_n which_o be_v not_o convertible_a term_n for_o though_o all_o believer_n be_v elect_a yet_o the_o elect_n be_v not_o ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la believer_n as_o soon_o as_o they_o exist_v in_o the_o world_n now_o we_o who_o hold_v that_o the_o elect_n be_v child_n of_o wrath_n as_o well_o as_o other_o during_o their_o state_n of_o unbelief_n do_v yet_o hold_v also_o that_o to_o those_o elect_n be_v once_o believer_n there_o be_v no_o condemnation_n rom._n 8.1_o as_o for_o the_o denial_n of_o condition_n in_o the_o new_a covenant_n by_o the_o other_o divine_n abovemention_v i_o will_v not_o contest_v about_o term_n if_o they_o will_v but_o grant_v that_o the_o new_a covenant_n be_v not_o absolute_a in_o opposition_n to_o any_o mean_n or_o order_n which_o god_n have_v appoint_v for_o obtain_v the_o benefit_n of_o it_o though_o i_o see_v no_o harm_n in_o the_o term_n condition_n as_o apply_v to_o the_o new_a covenant_n as_o for_o mr._n jer._n burrough_n assert_v of_o remission_n of_o all_o sin_n past_a present_a and_o to_o come_v i_o suppose_v he_o mean_v with_o ames_n that_o sin_n past_a be_v remit_v formal_o future_a sin_n but_o virtual_o med._n theol._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 27._o n._n 24._o because_o he_o that_o have_v be_v forgive_v one_o sin_n shall_v not_o be_v condemn_v for_o another_o see_v col._n 2.13_o i_o find_v not_o any_o thing_n else_o worth_a the_o take_a notice_n of_o but_o his_o answer_n to_o two_o of_o our_o argument_n against_o their_o doctrine_n of_o saint_n apostasy_n 1._o that_o it_o be_v destructive_a of_o christian_a comfort_n to_o which_o he_o answer_v out_o of_o mr._n baxter_n that_o a_o comfortable_a life_n may_v be_v lead_v without_o assurance_n to_o which_o i_o reply_v that_o the_o experience_n of_o adam_n frailty_n give_v we_o who_o have_v remain_v of_o sin_n in_o we_o more_o cause_n to_o fear_v our_o stand_n if_o leave_v as_o he_o to_o ourselves_o and_o it_o be_v the_o strong_a consolation_n we_o be_v capable_a of_o or_o can_v desire_v in_o this_o life_n that_o we_o shall_v be_v preserve_v from_o every_o evil_a work_n to_o god_n heavenly_a kingdom_n 2_o tim._n 4.17_o the_o second_o argument_n which_o mr._n ives_n pretend_v to_o answer_v be_v that_o the_o saint_n apostasy_n make_v god_n love_n changeable_a to_o which_o he_o answer_v that_o god_n love_n be_v upon_o condition_n i_o reply_v god_n love_n be_v take_v in_o scripture_n two_o way_n which_o the_o school_n call_v amor_fw-la ordinativus_fw-la &_o collativus_fw-la that_o be_v for_o god_n purpose_n of_o do_v man_n good_a which_o be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o whilst_o unbeliever_n or_o believer_n and_o of_o this_o love_n there_o neither_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v any_o condition_n as_o under_o the_o six_o argument_n of_o election_n i_o have_v prove_v and_o for_o the_o performance_n of_o this_o purpose_n or_o actual_a collation_n of_o the_o benefit_n purpose_v and_o thus_o faith_n be_v a_o qualification_n of_o the_o subject_a necessary_a by_o the_o tenor_n of_o the_o gospel_n to_o the_o participation_n of_o the_o benefit_n tender_v therein_o and_o it_o be_v god_n love_n in_o the_o former_a sense_n which_o we_o say_v be_v changeable_a shall_v he_o damn_v any_o true_a believer_n as_o for_o his_o story_n out_o of_o dr._n pierce_n that_o woman_n that_o believe_v not_o that_o adultery_n have_v do_v she_o any_o hurt_n nor_o be_v damnable_a in_o she_o nor_o lessen_v the_o favour_n of_o god_n understand_v not_o our_o doctrine_n for_o the_o stain_n of_o sin_n sure_o be_v a_o hurt_n and_o the_o state_n of_o grace_n take_v not_o away_o the_o demerit_n of_o damnation_n though_o it_o prevent_v that_o event_n and_o though_o the_o sin_n of_o believer_n lessen_v not_o the_o favour_n or_o love_n of_o god_n in_o the_o first_o acception_n abovementioned_a i._n e._n make_v not_o his_o purpose_n of_o no_o effect_n yet_o it_o do_v in_o the_o second_o acception_n for_o it_o procure_v god_n withdraw_a etc._n etc._n to_o conclude_v i_o hearty_o wish_v and_o pray_v that_o god_n will_v remove_v from_o mr._n ives_n the_o way_n of_o lie_v and_o clothe_v he_o with_o humility_n and_o give_v he_o repentance_n to_o the_o acknowledge_v of_o the_o truth_n that_o he_o may_v not_o be_v more_o ashamed_a to_o have_v his_o ignorance_n know_v then_o desirous_a to_o have_v it_o cure_v postscript_n what_o mr._n ives_n relate_v at_o the_o close_a of_o the_o orderly_a behaviour_n of_o his_o own_o party_n and_o disorderly_a of_o we_o be_v so_o evident_o false_a that_o if_o he_o have_v not_o a_o brow_n of_o brass_n he_o will_v not_o have_v dare_v to_o charge_v the_o innocent_a and_o discharge_v the_o guilty_a i_o appeal_v to_o all_o indifferent_a auditor_n whether_o mr._n ives_n party_n carriage_n at_o our_o conference_n do_v not_o confirm_v the_o common_a opinion_n of_o sober_a person_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v not_o a_o rude_a sort_n of_o people_n the_o quaker_n not_o except_v than_o arminian_n anabaptist_n finis_fw-la errata_fw-la pag._n 3._o l._n 10._o for_o affidavit_fw-la read_v affirmative_a