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book_n know_v read_v write_v 3,405 5 5.0561 4 true
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A85233 A reply unto severall treatises pleading for the armes now taken up by subjects in the pretended defence of religion and liberty. By name, unto the reverend and learned divines which pleaded Scripture and reason for defensive arms. The author of the Treatise of monarchy. The author of the Fuller answer his reply. By H. Fern D.D. &c. Ferne, H. (Henry), 1602-1662. 1643 (1643) Wing F799; Thomason E74_9 75,846 101

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take_v several_o not_o conjunctim_fw-la as_o they_o be_v gather_v together_o in_o their_o house_n for_o indeed_o how_o can_v they_o be_v his_o subject_n and_o he_o their_o supreme_a head_n if_o they_o be_v fundamental_o mix_v or_o join_v with_o he_o in_o the_o supremacy_n of_o power_n the_o author_n of_o the_o treatise_n of_o monarchy_n do_v see_v that_o this_o be_v repugnant_a to_o law_n and_o reason_n and_o therefore_o do_v acknowledge_v they_o to_o be_v subject_n conjunctim_fw-la under_o the_o king_n as_o their_o supreme_a head_n yet_o be_v engage_v he_o hold_v the_o ground_n upon_o which_o that_o absurd_a assertion_n be_v raise_v affirm_v and_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o mixture_n be_v in_o the_o supremacy_n of_o power_n pag._n 40._o how_o then_o will_v he_o make_v the_o king_n supreme_a and_o they_o his_o subject_n for_o this_o he_o give_v the_o king_n apicem_fw-la potestatis_fw-la the_o top_n or_o excellency_n of_o power_n that_o be_v the_o king_n be_v the_o crown_n 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a_o reply_n unto_o several_a treatise_n plead_v for_o the_o arm_n now_o take_v up_o by_o subject_n in_o the_o pretend_a defence_n of_o religion_n and_o liberty_n by_o name_n unto_o the_o reverend_n and_o learned_a divine_n which_o plead_v scripture_n and_o reason_n for_o defensive_a arms._n the_o author_n of_o the_o treatise_n of_o monarchy_n the_o author_n of_o the_o full_a answer_v his_o reply_n by_o h._n fern_n d._n d._n etc._n etc._n oxford_z print_v by_o leonard_n lichfield_n printer_n to_o the_o ●niversity_n 1643._o the_o content_n of_o the_o several_a section_n sect_n i._o the_o preface_n in_o which_o the_o contradictory_n assertion_n of_o the_o adversary_n pag._n 2_o 3._o the_o general_n resolution_n of_o the_o cause_n pag._n 4._o doctrine_n of_o sedition_n pag._n 5._o 6._o sect_n ii_o case_n of_o resistance_n in_o regard_n of_o time_n of_o peace_n or_o war_n and_o in_o regard_n of_o person_n private_a or_o public_a pag._n 7._o etc._n etc._n sect_n iii_o a_o defence_n of_o subject_n arm_n in_o vain_a seek_v by_o the_o distinction_n of_o monarchy_n pag._n 11._o 12._o the_o govern_v power_n be_v so_o derive_v from_o god_n upon_o he_o who_o be_v supreme_a that_o the_o people_n can_v lessen_v or_o limit_v it_o but_o only_o in_o the_o exercise_n pag._n 13_o 14._o of_o a_o absolute_a and_o limit_a monarch_n pag._n 15._o limitation_n and_o mixture_n may_v be_v by_o after_o condescent_n of_o the_o monarch_n and_o only_o reach_v the_o exercise_n of_o the_o power_n pag._n 15._o 16_o 17._o mixture_n differ_v from_o derivation_n of_o power_n to_o substitute_n officer_n pag._n 17._o 18._o of_o monarchy_n by_o conquest_n pag._n 18._o providence_n may_v so_o far_o discover_v itself_o by_o conquest_n that_o the_o people_n conquer_a shall_v be_v bind_v to_o consent_v and_o yield_v obedience_n to_o the_o conqueror_n as_o to_o a_o prince_n set_v over_o they_o by_o god_n pag._n 19_o 20_o sect_n four_o the_o constitution_n of_o this_o monarchy_n the_o entrance_n of_o the_o saxon_a and_o norman_a conqueror_n urge_v not_o to_o prove_v our_o king_n absolute_a but_o to_o disprove_v such_o a_o original_a limitation_n and_o mixture_n as_o the_o adversary_n phansy_v in_o this_o monarchy_n pag._n 21._o to_o 28._o reason_n for_o such_o original_a limitation_n and_o mixture_n answer_v pag._n 28._o 29._o proof_n for_o it_o from_o his_o majesty_n grant_n answer_v pag._n 30._o 31._o 32._o sect_n v._o of_o resistance_n in_o relation_n to_o a_o absolute_a monarchy_n pag._n 33._o 34._o 35._o in_o relation_n to_o a_o limit_a monarchy_n pa._n 36._o 37._o 38._o limitation_n and_o mixture_n in_o monarchy_n do_v not_o infer_v a_o power_n of_o resistance_n in_o subject_n pag._n 39_o 40._o etc._n etc._n sect_n vi_o a_o refutation_n of_o the_o most_o considerable_a passage_n of_o his_o reply_n that_o first_o style_v himself_o author_n of_o the_o full_a answer_n pag._n 43._o to_o 56._o sect_n vii_o place_n of_o scripture_n out_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n the_o institution_n of_o the_o israelitish_n kingdom_n in_o which_o the_o jus_fw-la regis_fw-la employ_v a_o security_n from_o resistance_n pag._n 56_o 57_o 58_o 59_o the_o rescue_n of_o jonathan_n pag._n 60._o david_n demeanour_n towards_o saul_n infer_v not_o a_o power_n of_o resistance_n in_o subject_n pag._n 61_o 62._o his_o enquiry_n about_o the_o intent_n of_o the_o k●ilites_n pag._n 63._o something_o extraordinary_a in_o the_o example_n of_o david_n pag._n 64_o 65._o the_o prophet_n never_o call_v upon_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o people_n for_o this_o pretend_a duty_n of_o resistance_n pag._n 66._o sect_n viii_o of_o resistance_n forbid_v in_o the_o 13._o to_o the_o roman_n the_o place_n be_v considerable_a as_o it_o speak_v of_o government_n in_o gener_n all_o and_o as_o it_o relate_v to_o those_o time_n and_o governor_n pag._n 67_o that_o it_o be_v power_n in_o the_o plural_a and_o in_o the_o abstract_n vain_o observe_v and_o apply_v by_o the_o reverend_a divine_n pag._n 67_o 68_o 69._o that_o subjection_n be_v not_o here_o restrain_v to_o legal_a command_n in_o civil_a matter_n only_o as_o they_o will_v have_v it_o pag_n 69._o to_o 77._o that_o christian_n may_v not_o resist_v because_o religion_n than_o be_v not_o establish_v by_o law_n and_o because_o the_o emperor_n than_o be_v absolute_a as_o the_o author_n of_o the_o treat_n of_o monarchy_n will_v have_v it_o be_v not_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o apostle_n prohibition_n pag._n 77._o 78._o of_o the_o absoluteness_n of_o those_o emperor_n before_o vespasian_n time_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o senate_n and_o of_o the_o lex_fw-la regius_fw-la pag._n 79_o etc._n etc._n sect_n ix_o nine_o reason_n against_o power_n of_o resistance_n in_o subject_n draw_v from_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o wisdom_n of_o god_n who_o put_v his_o people_n under_o king_n without_o power_n of_o resist_v they_o in_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n pag._n 84._o of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n that_o place_n the_o power_n of_o 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old_a answer_n thereby_o make_v the_o book_n swell_v to_o that_o bigness_n it_o appear_v in_o the_o other_o book_n bear_v this_o title_n a_o treatise_n of_o monarchy_n by_o who_o i_o know_v not_o but_o sure_o the_o author_n however_o he_o look_v not_o with_o a_o single_a eye_n upon_o what_o i_o have_v write_v misconstrue_v it_o many_o time_n do_v with_o much_o ingenuity_n disclaim_v and_o with_o no_o less_o reason_n confute_v several_a assertion_n of_o those_o learned_a divine_n and_o other_o writer_n of_o the_o party_n assertion_n that_o have_v very_o much_o help_v forward_o this_o rebellion_n such_o as_o these_o that_o the_o king_n be_v universis_fw-la minor_fw-la that_o the_o people_n which_o make_v the_o king_n be_v above_o he_o by_o the_o rule_n quicquid_fw-la efficit_fw-la tale_n est_fw-la magis_fw-la tale_n that_o the_o final_a judgement_n of_o this_o state_n be_v in_o the_o two_o house_n that_o the_o christian_n in_o the_o primitive_a time_n may_v have_v resist_v have_v they_o have_v force_v these_o and_o the_o like_a he_o ingenuous_o disclaim_v but_o be_v engage_v he_o set_v up_o his_o rest_n upon_o a_o groundless_a fancy_n of_o such_o a_o mixture_n and_o constitution_n of_o this_o monarchy_n as_o mustinable_a the_o house_n to_o restrain_v the_o exorbitancy_n of_o the_o monarch_n by_o the_o arm_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o to_o induce_v a_o belief_n of_o this_o he_o have_v prefix_v a_o discourse_n of_o absolute_a limit_v and_o mix_v monarchy_n so_o frame_v as_o be_v most_o applyable_a to_o his_o purpose_n he_o that_o write_v the_o full_a answer_n to_o my_o first_o treatise_n have_v this_o conceit_n of_o mixture_n whereby_o he_o place_v the_o house_n in_o the_o very_a supremacy_n of_o power_n and_o do_v thence_o as_o one_o falsehood_n be_v grant_v do_v necessary_o infer_v another_o conclude_v that_o the_o member_n of_o the_o house_n be_v the_o king_n subject_n divis●m_n
people_n see_v above_o towards_o the_o end_n of_o the_o five_o section_n that_o limitation_n of_o the_o monarch_n power_n infer_v not_o a_o power_n of_o resistance_n in_o subject_n he_o add_v to_o the_o same_o reason_n if_o a_o prince_n be_v teach_v that_o he_o may_v take_v what_o he_o pleaseath_n from_o his_o subject_n without_o be_v resist_v case_n and_o reason_n will_v soon_o be_v bring_v to_o persuade_v he_o etc._n etc._n pag._n 53._o answ_n he_o be_v not_o teach_v he_o may_v lawful_o do_v so_o but_o if_o subject_n be_v teach_v that_o they_o may_v lawful_o take_v arm_n upon_o such_o or_o such_o case_n and_o take_v from_o their_o fellow_n subject_n what_o they_o please_v to_o maintain_v those_o arm_n pretence_n and_o case_n will_v not_o be_v want_v as_o at_o this_o day_n in_o a_o word_n some_o must_v be_v final_o trust_v when_o all_o be_v do_v and_o who_o may_v better_a challenge_v it_o then_o the_o supreme_a governor_n that_o stand_v next_o to_o god_n above_o the_o people_n as_o be_v say_v above_o in_o the_o four_o rea●on_n and_o it_o be_v fit_a we_o shall_v for_o the_o redress_n of_o evil_n in_o government_n trust_v god_n and_o depend_v upon_o his_o providence_n more_o than_o these_o man_n will_v have_v we_o h●s_n three_o reason_n eccause_fw-mi such_o power_n be_v due_a to_o a_o public_a state_n for_o its_o preservation_n as_o be_v due_a to_o a_o particular_a person_n pag._n 55._o answ_n the_o proposition_n be_v not_o universal_o true_a but_o be_v thus_o far_o grant_v such_o power_n be_v due_a to_o a_o state_n for_o its_o preservation_n as_o be_v allow_v by_o the_o just_a law_n thereof_o for_o as_o the_o body_n natural_a defend_v itself_o from_o outward_a force_n by_o its_o law_n so_o the_o body_n politic_n by_o its_o law_n now_o though_o a_o particular_a person_n by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n have_v power_n of_o self_n preservation_n against_o the_o force_n of_o another_o private_a person_n yet_o be_v this_o power_n yield_v up_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o civil_a power_n by_o the_o benefit_n of_o which_o particular_a person_n have_v protection_n from_o the_o injury_n of_o all_o other_o and_o not_o to_o be_v use_v against_o person_n endue_v with_o such_o power_n against_o such_o person_n illegal_o and_o sudden_o assuit_v a_o man_n where_o t●e_v danger_n be_v imminent_a and_o unavoidable_a by_o flight_n there_o be_v no_o more_o allow_v in_o my_o first_o treatise_n than_o a_o mere_a personal_a defence_n by_o ward_n of_o blow_n without_o return_v any_o yet_o do_v this_o author_n complain_v the_o doctor_n be_v so_o heavy_a a_o friend_n to_o the_o state_n that_o he_o think_v it_o not_o sit_v to_o allow_v it_o that_o liberty_n he_o give_v every_o private_a man_n pag._n 55._o as_o the_o liberty_n which_o this_o author_n allow_v a_o state_n for_o its_o preservation_n tend_v rather_o to_o its_o suoversion_n so_o be_v there_o many_o difference_n between_o it_o and_o the_o liberty_n or_o power_n allow_v to_o private_a man_n for_o first_o that_o power_n of_o preservation_n which_o be_v allow_v to_o a_o private_a man_n against_o a_o private_a man_n be_v against_o a_o our_o ward_n force_n but_o this_o which_o be_v challenge_v for_o the_o state_n be_v by_o a_o civil_a contention_n of_o the_o body_n against_o the_o head_n or_o of_o other_o part_n of_o th●_n body_n against_o the_o head_n and_o another_o part_n of_o the_o body_n 2._o that_o defence_n which_o be_v allow_v against_o minister_n of_o power_n in_o their_o unavoidable_a assault_n be_v without_o all_o off●nee_n but_o this_o defence_n by_o army_n which_o be_v challenge_v for_o the_o state_n can_v be_v so_o 3._o that_o power_n of_o defence_n be_v such_o as_o nature_n have_v endue_v every_o particular_a man_n with_o and_o the_o law_n of_o the_o society_n have_v not_o forbid_v so_o far_o forth_o as_o be_v say_v to_o be_v use_v but_o this_o be_v such_o a_o power_n as_o no_o law_n enable_v subject_n to_o a_o taking_z and_o use_v of_o the_o sword_n without_o warrant_n as_o have_v be_v often_o show_v 4._o such_o near_a personal_a defence_n be_v not_o destructive_a of_o order_n but_o this_o by_o the_o civil_a contention_n of_o the_o head_n and_o body_n be_v as_o at_o this_o day_n the_o pleader_n for_o defensive_a arm_n make_v a_o long_a reply_n to_o that_o which_o in_o my_o first_o trea●_n be_v speak_v concern_v this_o personal_a defence_n the_o substance_n of_o it_o be_v first_o though_o the_o body_n natural_a can_v do_v nothing_o against_o or_o without_o the_o guidance_n of_o the_o head_n yet_o the_o body_n politic_n can_v be_v a_o company_n of_o reasonable_a man_n who_o action_n may_v be_v divide_v from_o their_o head_n pag._n 14.15_o answ_n they_o be_v reasonable_a man_n but_o as_o they_o make_v up_o the_o body_n politic_a the_o law_n be_v their_o reason_n and_o they_o can_v move_v or_o act_v further_o than_o it_o direct_v they_o nor_o can_v they_o divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o head_n to_o which_o the_o law_n join_v they_o nor_o of_o themselves_o perform_v the_o supreme_a act_n of_o power_n belong_v to_o the_o head_n 2._o it_o be_v grant_v the_o body_n politic_n may_v defend_v itself_o against_o a_o outward_a force_n then_o suppose_v the_o king_n employ_v danes_n or_o irish_a against_o the_o kingdom_n may_v we_o resist_v pag._n 15._o answ_n i_o determine_v nothing_o of_o their_o supposition_n which_o i_o hope_v will_v never_o come_v to_o pass_v but_o they_o shall_v have_v consider_v when_o the_o doctor_n say_v the_o body_n politic_a defend_v itself_o against_o a_o outward_a force_n li●●e_v as_o the_o body_n natural_a do_v he_o do_v not_o take_v the_o body_n politic_a divide_v from_o the_o head_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o civil_a contention_n 3._o the_o doctor_n suppose_v the_o prince_n bend_v to_o subvert_v religion_n liberty_n allows_v what_o great_a destruction_n of_o order_n can_v be_v fear_v by_o such_o antention_n or_o resistance_n pag._n 15.16_o answ_n what_o be_v mean_v by_o that_o supposition_n have_v be_v often_o explain_v the_o prince_n bend_v or_o seduce_v to_o subvert_v i._n e._n do_v many_o act_n arbitrary_o which_o of_o themselves_o tend_v to_o subversion_n but_o indeed_o the_o frame_n of_o government_n &_o law_n can_v be_v subvert_v without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o two_o house_n it_o may_v happen_v that_o actual_a invasion_n may_v be_v make_v upon_o they_o and_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o such_o have_v better_o be_v bear_v with_o and_o other_o lawful_a and_o reasonable_a remedy_n seek_v then_o to_o endeavour_v a_o forcible_a redress_n by_o a_o civil_a contention_n for_o under_o such_o actual_a invasion_n of_o the_o subject_n right_n nay_o under_o the_o great_a tyranny_n there_o be_v more_o order_n law_n and_o justice_n then_o under_o such_o civil_a discord_n and_o war_n as_o be_v full_o evince_v above_o by_o the_o 7._o and_o 8._o reason_n the_o four_o reason_n of_o the_o author_n of_o the_o treat_n of_o monarchy_n be_v ground_v upon_o that_o false_a supposal_n of_o the_o two_o house_n be_v join_v with_o the_o king_n in_o the_o very_a sovereign_a power_n pag._n 55._o which_o be_v at_o large_a examine_v above_o his_o last_o reason_n be_v from_o the_o power_n of_o inferior_a court_n where_o the_o judge_n it_o to_o proceed_v to_o the_o censure_n and_o punishment_n of_o the_o malefactor_n notwithstanding_o the_o king_n warrant_v to_o the_o contrary_a much_o rather_o may_v the_o assault_n of_o p●tvate_a man_n be_v resist_v by_o the_o parliament_n pag._n 56._o answ_n the_o argument_n from_o the_o process_n of_o inferior_a court_n to_o sentence_n and_o punishment_n or_o from_o the_o parliament_n power_n to_o resist_v and_o commit_v such_o private_a man_n assault_v they_o be_v altogether_o inconsequent_a to_o prove_v their_o power_n to_o raise_v army_n and_o by_o they_o to_o oppose_v the_o force_n of_o their_o sovereign_n which_o be_v the_o resistance_n suppose_v in_o the_o question_n and_o condemn_v as_o unwarrantable_a by_o all_o that_o have_v hitherto_o be_v speak_v from_o the_o constitution_n of_o this_o government_n from_o scripture_n and_o from_o reason_n and_o all_o this_o that_o have_v be_v speak_v hitherto_o belong_v to_o the_o resolution_n of_o the_o first_o question_n that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o subject_n upon_o the_o suppose_a ca●e_n of_o the_o prince_n subu●rsive_a exorbitance_n to_o take_v arm_n and_o resist_v as_o at_o this_o day_n the_o other_o shall_v follow_v that_o the_o case_n suppose_v be_v not_o now_o or_o that_o they_o have_v no_o those_o cause_n for_o their_o arm_n which_o they_o pretend_v but_o of_o this_o there_o have_v be_v so_o much_o say_v in_o so_o many_o declaration_n and_o book_n write_v to_o inform_v the_o world_n aright_o that_o i_o need_v not_o be_v any_o long_a troublesome_a only_o i_o will_v desire_v the_o reader_n upon_o their_o pretend_v the_o defence_n of_o the_o establish_a religion_n and_o law_n by_o these_o arm_n to_o consider_v first_o that_o they_o can_v say_v another_o religion_n be_v command_v or_o enforce_v upon_o they_o only_o they_o will_v say_v they_o fear_v a_o change_n i_o will_v to_o god_n that_o all_o offence_n which_o the_o liberty_n of_o these_o unsettle_a time_n have_v produce_v be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o way_n but_o be_v there_o ever_o any_o before_o these_o time_n so_o desperare_fw-la as_o to_o maintain_v subject_n may_v fight_v against_o their_o sovereign_n for_o a_o religion_n they_o free_o enjoy_v only_o because_o they_o fear_v a_o prevail_a of_o the_o contrary_a and_o if_o the_o reader_n do_v consider_v that_o this_o army_n which_o pretend_v the_o defence_n of_o the_o establish_v religion_n beside_o some_o tr●●●es_n of_o foreigner_n and_o papist_n and_o some_o band_n of_o unwilling_a prest-man_n have_v its_o chief_a strength_n from_o the_o prevalency_n of_o such_o sect_n as_o be_v condemn_v by_o law_n of_o this_o land_n he_o may_v well_o cry_v out_o in_o the_o word_n of_o the_o homily_n above_o cite_v what_o religion_n be_v it_o that_o such_o man_n will_v by_o such_o mean_n maintain_v a_o frantic_a religion_n need_v such_o furious_a maintenance_n as_o be_v rebellion_n ii_o they_o can_v but_o say_v that_o the_o continuance_n of_o the_o establish_a religion_n and_o of_o the_o government_n of_o church_n and_o state_n together_o with_o a_o just_a reformation_n of_o all_o abuse_n have_v be_v offer_v promise_a protest_v for_o by_o their_o sovereign_n ●_o but_o this_o will_v not_o content_v they_o unless_o the_o establish_a liturgy_n may_v be_v abolish_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n by_o bishop_n which_o have_v always_o be_v may_v be_v no_o more_o and_o the_o power_n which_o by_o law_n be_v his_o majesty_n put_v into_o their_o hand_n and_o because_o these_o be_v not_o grant_v their_o arm_n be_v continue_v and_o for_o the_o maintain_n of_o they_o the_o liberty_n and_o property_n of_o their_o fellow_n subject_n be_v invade_v so_o that_o if_o the_o question_n be_v put_v who_o be_v those_o misemployed_a fellow_n subject_n that_o these_o man_n pretend_v to_o fight_v against_o it_o be_v plain_a they_o be_v such_o as_o defend_v their_o sovereign_n power_n and_o right_n the_o establish_v religion_n and_o government_n of_o this_o church_n and_o state_n their_o own_o property_n and_o liberty_n in_o a_o word_n such_o as_o will_v not_o change_v their_o sovereign_n or_o the_o establish_v frame_n of_o government_n the_o god_n of_o power_n and_o wisdom_n cast_v out_o all_o counsel_n and_o defeat_v all_o design_n that_o be_v against_o the_o restore_n of_o our_o peace_n and_o the_o continuance_n of_o the_o true_a reform_a religion_n amen_n finis_fw-la