the first point they say that S. Francis aswell as Christ was declared by darke sayinges and speaches of the prophets T What may those Types of S. Francis be Z. They tell of many I onelie will recite a verie few omitting to mention the rest both for breuitie sake and t'auoide offence You know at the commaundement of the Lord Moses made a fierie Serpent and set it vp as a signe that so many as were bitten might looke vpon that Serpent of brasse and liue T. I know the place verie wel what of that Z. That Serpent was a figure of this S. Francis T. Of this S. Francis Not of S. Francis but of Christ I trowe for so Christ him selfe did say Z. But they say it was a figure of Saint Francis It must therefore necessarilie ensue either that Christ was not the Messiah or that S. Francis was the Messiah Sauiour of mankinde so well as Christ. T. Who euer so wickedly hath abused the holy Scriptures of God Z You shal heare another Tipe of this new Christ Saint Francis When Nebuchad-nezzer had cast the three Noble-men into the burning ouen at length he spied in the middest of the fire a fourth whose forme was like the Sonne of God Know you whom that fourth did signifie T. Whō he did signifie I wot what I thinke But I pray you tell whom he did signifie Z. I will tell you he was a figure of S. Francis if you will credite the Franciscanes T. No more of this I pray you hartelie I canne no longer endure to heare such blaspheming of God and horrible abusing of his holy word Z. How then would you abide to heare them say that the worde of the Seraphins Holy Holy Holy in the 6. of Esaie were spoken figuratiuelie and are to be vnderstood of S. Francis How would you abide that the noise of the great rushing behinde the Prophet Ezechiel vttering these wordes Blessed be the glorie of the Lord should point vnto Saint Francis what woulde you thinke if you heard them say which they write that the Angel hauing the seale of the liuing God mentioned in the 7. of the Reuelation was verie Saint Francis T. That is as much as if they saide that Christ is not Christ but S. Francis is Christ. Z. And that is to make the Gospell of Christ euen a verie fable Chap 2. Of S. Francis againe who is in many equal in some respectes made Superior to Iesus Christ. TYMOTHIE But to leaue these shadowes and come vnto the substance dare they compare S. Francis with Christ as you said they doo ZELOTES They do both compare and in many respectes preferre him before Christ. T. That would better be knowne Z. You haue alreadie heard how they are made like for names like for nature a like prefigured yea sometimes by one and the same Types and Shadowes But more-ouer they are made equall in many other thinges in so much as they haue written a booke on purpose to shewe the conformitie betweene Saint Francis and Christ. T. What resemblance is there betweene Christ S. Francis Z. As much in truth as betweene God and Belial Yet that the world may see how farre they haue waded in impietie you cā name almost nothing of Christ wherein they make not S. Francis to resemble him T. When Christ was borne a multitude of heauenlie soldiors with Th'angel praised God and said Glorie be to God c. What such thing at the birth of S. Francis Z. Yes it must religiouslie be beleeued say they that the like was done at the natiuitie of S. Francis And which more is Hell was so mooued at this mans birth as th'infernall feendes did thinke either that the day of Iudgement was then come or one was borne that should shake yea ouerthrow the force of hel was euer the like read or could any thing be said more in disgrace and dishonor of our Sauiour Christ T. Christ being a childe of eight daies old and presented in the temple Simeon that iust man fearing God and waiting for the consolation of Israel tooke him in his armes praised God c. Z. That is verie true so did Simeon a iust man yet a man but saint Francis being a child an Angel in shape of a pilgryme tooke him in his armes as Simeon did Christ and blessed him T. Christ was so holy as albeit he was tempted yet was he without sin and neuer did sinne nor knew any sinne nor had in him anie sinne at all Z. In integritie of life also saint Francis doth resemble Christ For he performed euen according to the letter not omitting so much as one iote or title euē all the holye Gospell and kept euerie commaundement of God in so much as he is an example of all perfection T. If he were such a one maruell it is hee had no Ionn Baptist to prepare away for him as Christ had Z. You maruel that he had none such but he had such a forerunner as Christ had and that is merueilous T Christ had his twelue Disciples and the names of them all are knowen Z Saint Francis had so manie for number as wel knowen by their names And as one of Christ his Apostles called Iudas was wicked and hung him selfe so had saint Francis a disciple called Iohannes de Capella which for lewdnes hung him selfe And as the Apostles of the Lord were wonderfull for their holines and miracles so the companies of saint Francis were glorious for conuersation and miracles in life and in death And as the holie Apostles followed with all indeuour the life and doctrine of Christ so these companies with saint Francis obserued the holie Gospell And as the Lord Iesus had other Disciples besides the 12 Apostles so also saint Francis besides the forenamed companions and disciples had manie mo that were singular for life holines and perfection And as by Christ his Apostles the whole world was changed so by saint Francis and his bretheren the world is altered to the following of Christ his life and exercising of penance T. Christ was tempted of the deuill was saint Francis so too Z. Yea hee was tempted likewise of sathan that therin he might be founde like vnto Christ T. Christ was so virtuous as some being sicke thought that if they might but touch his garment only they should be whole Z. Saint Francis was therein not inferior vnto Christ for he thought him self happie that might touche the hem of saint Francis garment T. Christ was of that power that he healed euerie sicknes and euerie disease among the people Z. So did saint Francis T. Christ raised the dead vnto life Z. Saint Francis did the same T. Christ at a Marriage made Wine of water Z. S. Francis also turned not onelie water yea a fountaine
order of sainct Francis T. Then no doubt this Frier raigning raging ouer the church of God men are to addresse themselues either to vnder-goe the punishments appointed for heretikes which is burning fier in this world or to embrace as Heauenlie Oracles these franciscane fables Z. It is wonderfull as a thing may bee which they publish of the successe they shal haue of the swarmes of Franciscanes that are to be in the world T. What successe shall they haue Z. Such as passeth For alreadie and this was written of them no few yeares agoe the verie places of the Friers minors dispersed through the world do mount vnto the number of a thousand and sixe hundred besides them which day by day are newlie erected For as it is in the Psalme Shee stretched out her branches vnto the sea not onelie Mediterrane and Ocean but euen vnto the Indian also and from the riuer vnto th'endes of the world For euen in India this order now hath à long while hath had manie places of abode T. If the places be so manie what and how manie may the persons be which supplie those roumes Z. For Nations the French come the Spanish hasten the Dutch and English run and the greatest multitude of diuers other languages do speede them selues to bee of this order And for numder Iohn Th'euāgelist hauing in the 7. chap. of the Reuelat. described both the time whē which was at the opening of the 6. seale and the manner how saint Francis should be sent to wit as that Angel hauing the seale of the liuing God he adioyneth next of the multitude that by the preaching life example of sainct Francis and his companions shall bee conuerted vnto Christ T. What are the wordes of Sainct Iohn Z. His wordes be these And I heard the number of them which were sealed and there were sealed an hundred and foure and forty thousand of al the tribes of the children of Israel T. Expounde they those wordes of the Franciscanes Z. Yea verily or this may be expounded say they on this wise that there shall be so manie friers or men to bee conuerted in this order the people being brought vnto the Lord either in processe of time or in the verie daies of Antichrist when as this order all other orders being destroied shall preache against Antichrist T. Of the Franciscanes one hundred fortie and foure thousande Z. Yea or which more is say they it may bee said that according to the phrase of scripture by à certaine hee meaneth an vncertaine nomber as if there should be sealed and in the habit of Frācis that of the crucified not only an hundred fortie foure thousand but infinite besides And this Iohn seemeth to meane they say when hee addeth that hee beheld à great multitude which no man could nomber of all nations kinreds people and tongues c. T. Then I see full plainlie that they make not onelie sainct Francis another Christ but also them of his order to bee the onely people of God and that none either haue bin or shalbe saued but onely they of sainct Francis order Z. You haue gone to the verie point for hence they both terme their companie the family of God they say If thou wilt be saued be a Frāciscane For not only they which liue but they also that submit them selues vnto the rule of this Francis though at the verie point of death euen all of them are saued No maruell therefore though hee bee adored the world throughout euen as verie God and made an aduocate with the Father like another Christ Chap. 4. Of the Virgin Mary whom the Papistes make another Christ by ascribing vnto her the offices and honor due alwaies and onely vnto the Sauiour of mankinde TIMOTHIE Now do I see which before I knew not the most sacrilegious impietie and popish blasphemies about saint Francis ZELOTES Heare againe what their faith is cōcerning the blessed Virgine as they say our Ladie T. Take they her also for the Sauiour of mankinde as they do sainct Francis and as wee do Christ Z. That do they T. If one should say so vnto them would they not denie it and say we slander them Z. Say they what them list their owne bookes penned aduisedlie and published by them selues shal beare continuall testimonie to that which I haue said T. What write they of hir Z. They describe her nature by her name T. As how Z. Marie in Latine is Maria. T. And what then Z. Maria consisteth of fiue letters T. Then what Z. Those fiue letters do import the fiue offices to be exercised by her to vs-ward T. What are those her fiue offices Z. The first is Maternitatis of Motherhood signified by the letter M. For shee is à mercifull Mother euen the mother of mercie being the Mother of God through whom she making intercession and oblation wee attaine mercie Therfore the church calleth her the mother of grace and mercie T. What is her second office Z. That is Conseruationis of conseruing the treasure of God signified by the letter A. which representeth Arcam the sauri the Christ of treasury And therfore called is she the treasurer This is taken from poore men whose manner is to runne vnto the treasurers Therefore we which are poore in this vale of miserie c. must repaire vnto her because in hir say they wee shall finde an infinite treasure of the wisedome and grace of God T. Her third what Z. That is Directionis Gubernationis of direction and gouerning by examples of her life This imported is by the letter R and therefore is she named Regina the Queene T. And what is her fourth office Z. That is Iaculationis repulsionis inimicorum of flinging and repelling backe of enemies signified by the letter I for which cause shee is termed Iaculum inimicorum infernalium the dart of infernal enemies which at the inuocating of this name yeeld and flee away For she is as terrible vnto them as an armie of men set in battel raie Ideo Ecclesia frequenter orat c. This causeth the church often to pray saying Tu nos ab hoste protege hora mortis suscipe protect thou from th'enemie and receaue vs at the houre of death T. Her last office what is that Z. That is Aduocationis of Aduocation imported by the letter A. whence the Church Eya aduocata nostra Eih our aduocate turne those thy merciful eies vnto vs. T. What moueth you now to vse those Latine wordes Z. That do I in two respectes first for that I would haue their more then childish toies obserued who at their pleasure can make letters to signifie as some haue made Bels to sound euen what pleaseth their phantasticall braine and as best may feede their superstitious humors Hence is it that M. is to signifie Mater and nothing
AN HISTORICAL DIALOGVE TOVching Antichrist and Poperie DRAWEN AND PVBlished for the common benefit and comfort of our Church in these dangerous daies against the desperate attemptes of the vowed aduersaries of Iesus Christ his Gospell and this florishing State by Thomas Rogers Allowed by auctoritie Reuel 18. 6 Reward her euen as shee hath rewarded you and giue her double according to her workes and in the cup that she hath filled to you fill her the double AT LONDON Printed by Iohn Windet for Andrewe Maunsell and are to be solde at the signe of the Brasen Serpent in Paules Church-yard 1589. TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE SIR CHRIstopher Hatton Knight Lord high Chancelar of England Knight of the most Honorable order of the Garter and worthie Chancelar of the most famous Vniuersitie of Oxenford his singular good Lord and Patron ⸫ THAT Whore of Babylon in the holie boke of Reuelations decyphered by Saint Iohn hath bin long since through the goodnes of Th'almightie is manie waies and by sundrie meanes in this last age of the world most notablie prooued to bee the church of Rome Notwithstanding as common strompets often-times put vpon them both the faces and the persons of most honest women so this whore filthie though she be and vncleane yet would she appeare in the eies of man to be pure and chast as the spouse of Christ. And as harlots haue brazen faces and dare compare yea and for pure behauiour some-while praefer themselues to vnspotted virgins right sober matrons so this filth albeit she know her selfe guiltie of all manner pollutions yet such is her impudencie she blusheth not both to compare he selfe for honestie with the best make the world beleeue that it is not she but euen the lambes wife that is naught and vncleane But praised be God for the same vaunt she neuer so much of her holines and speake shee neuer so blasphemouslie against the spouse of Christ her loose lecherous life is well knowen and her abominations blazoned to th'uniuersall world so that she which giueth out that she is cleane is knowen to be nought els but meere pollution that saith she neuer went astraye neither can erre is well knowen to be euen the verie scūme of ancient and newe errors the sinke or draughte of heathenish idolatrie to haue erred in an hundred yea in sixe hūdred points of religion to haue adulterated euerie principal head of Christian doctrine and to haue quite reuolted from our Sauiour Christ This being so great should the detestation of her be in al our mindes and if any natural affection we carie toward our deere mother the Church of Christ we gladlie will imploy all our giftes both of bodie and of soule what els soeuer graces we haue for the defense of our mothers good behauiour for the bringing of this bold huswife and most impudent harlot so much as in vs lieth into a common hatred of all sortes that if possible it were euen the verie boies moathers in the streete may neuer heare Poperie named but they may hisse at it as they do at the sight of knowen bawdes and naughtie-packes For my part Right Honorable some-what in this booke as heretofore in other treatises I haue done and by Gods assistance and the lawfull fauour of my Superiours will proceede to the displaying of her filthines more and more to the world For wel I see which that most Reuerend Father and blessed martyr Maister Latimer did long since obserue that th'impudencie of this whore is excceding great and intolerable and therefore where occasion shall be giuen she is to be gauled and spurgauled too seeing no better she will prooue That which I looke for at her handes is but mortal hatred for my labour For so do harlots requite such as of good-wil laie open vnto them their vngodlines that they may amend And surely as in some thinges aboue mentioned so otherwise me-thinkes she doth notablie resemble the brothels and harlots of the world therfore diuinelie by Gods spirite is entituled the whore of Babylon For harlots if they loue you and you will not with like loue answere them againe they will hate you as Putiphars wife did Ioseph and those wicked Iudges Susanna Loue them and they will abuse you as Delilah did Samson that filth Apame which proudlie sitting on the right hand of the king with her right hand tooke the crowne of the kings head and put it on her owne and strooke the King with her left hand Leaue them once giue your selfe to lead an honest life either solelie or in holie wedlocke and they will pursue you with malice euen vnto the death as the late murther of Abel Bourne is memorable to this purpose So this whore of Babylon if you loue her not againe she louing you she wil hate you euen vnto the death If you loue her she will abuse you that too shamefully If you praeferring a Godlie life agreeable to Gods holy word before her wicked companie and cast her of nothing will pacifie her till she see your blood Of England this whore would be loued but England will bee chaste still with Ioseph and Susanna and therefore England is extremely hated Spaine loueth this whore and Spaine is abused shee sitteth on the Kinges right hand shee taketh his Crowne with her right hand puts it on her owne hed and with her left hand she strikes him on the face hee gapeth and gazeth on her poore soule if shee laugh at him hee laugheth and if shee be angrie with him he flattereth till shee bee reconciled yea hee will not spare his owne bloud to enioy her loue France leaft her companie what say I leaft he onely cast a friendlie countenance towardes the lambes wife and her faithful seruantes she was inflamed with iealousie forthwith she could not be pleased she feared he would cast her of or not feed her malicious humor and therefore a brother of that brothel house gratiouslie admitted vnto familiar speech in his owne chamber vnder colour of confession must be his priest and cut his throat Honorable there is no ioie but in a godlie conuersation there is no setled comfort but with the spouse of Christ. Th'end of harlots following thē besides discredit in this world consumption both of bodie and goodes it is vtter condemnation both of soule and bodie in the world to come Th' end of this whore is euerlasting condemnation in hell fire and besides their excessiue charges and expenses their end is th'utter wrath of God which haue to do with her To such I say from the Lord goe out of her good people that yee be not partakers in her sinnes and that yee receiue not of her plagues To your honor I wish perseuerance euen vntill th'end in that good religion which you do professe
especially for that soueraigne auctoritie hee had both to teach and reueale the wil of God cōcerning the redemption of man T. What was his auctoritie Z. Such as we are both enioined and that by a voice from the excellent glorie to heare him threatned to answere for the same if we despice his doctrine T. What were his giftes Z. Most diuine For he was the brightnes of the glorie and th'ingraued forme of God ful of grace and truth yea so full that all the fulnes of the Godhead dwelleth bodilie in him T. What was his doctrine Z. As were his qualities such was his doctrine euen most heauenlie For all thinges which hee hath heard from his Father hath he made knowen vnto vs and they are committed vnto writing that we might beleeue and that through beleeuing we might haue life through his name T. Now tell mee how Christ is diuested of this office and the Pope of Rome made the great Prophet of the Church of God Z. I haue mentioned nothing from the holie Scriptures touching either th'auctoritie or the giftes or the doctrine of Christ but the Pope is made to match that I say not to surpasse our Sauiour Christ in al and euerie of these respectes and therefore as great for power as Soueraigne for giftes as diuine for doctrine as Christ him-selfe T. I would see that confirmed Z. Who knoweth not that God is more pleased in his sonne Christ than they are delighted in their Father the Pope This is my beloued sonne heare him saith God And of the Pope this is our welbeloued Father in whom wee are delighted hear him say the papistes For whatsoeuer hee determineth is a knowen truth and that which he condemneth is a knowen error His lawes euen all of them are to be taken as confirmed by the mouth euen of God himselfe And whatsoeuer hee saith it is truth and he cannot erre Is not this to make the Pope of equall auctoritie with Iesus Christ T. To denie that is euen to gain-say an open truth Z. Moreouer that which latelie I alleaged though to an other purpose doth fitlie proue also that he is takē for giftes diuine partes to be as singular as our Sauiour Christ when they say of him an sainct Iohn said of Christ that of his fulnes wee do all receaue And that his doctrine is made equiualent with the Gospel of Iesus Christ it appeareth manie waies T. Shew that thing Z. He that will reade the bookes of Sentences especially the workes of Gabriel Biel shal finde that they make four sortes or degrees of the law of God T. What are they Z. The first degree be the lawes reuealed immediatlie from God him-selfe be written in the holie Bible especiallie in the Gospels penned through the wil of Christ for our better attainment of euerlasting happines T. What heare I Zelotes Is the word of God the first degree of Gods law be there moe lawes which are to be nombred among the lawes of God besides the holy Scriptures And among those bookes of the sacred Scriptures are the workes of the Euangelistes to be reputed but for lawes Z. That is their iudgement T. Proceede then and tel me what be the other lawes of God besides the holie Scriptures Z. The next are the Phansies and dreames either taken by tradition from man to man or deriued from the Scriptures by their false corrupt erronious pharisaical interpreting of them such are most of the Articles of the popish Creede sometimes drawen from the written word I graunt but rarelie agreeing with the sense of the holy ghost to th'analogie of the catholique faith T. And be the Articles of their faith lawes and their expositions to be accompted for the verie lawes of God Z. It is their opinion T. What bee their other lawes which they say are the verie lawes euen of God himselfe Z. They are of two sortes of one are the Canon lawes the Decretals Sixtes Clementines Extrauagantes and the like of thother sort be the Reuelations false Religions and Rules as of S. Bridget S. Frācis S. Dominick and that lame Spaniard Layola the founder of the Iesuitical viperous generation either penned or auctorized and made currant by the Popes of Rome T. And are men bound to take these and euerie of them euen as the verie lawes of Iesus Christ himselfe Z. Euen as the lawes of Christ. And how in cōparison of the Pope his lawes traditions ordinances and expositions they thinke of the holie Scripture it would carefullie be obserued T. What thinke they of the holie Scriptures Z. He was a Popish Bishop that sometime demaunded of a reuerend Father and afterward a blessed Martyr of Iesus Christ whether the people might not bee ordered without the holie Scriptures And he was à Cardinal of Rome that writ how there might be a Church without the Scriptures And another of that stampe whose name I now remember not said plainlie it had gone better with the Church had there bin no Scripture at all T. These are particular men you shew not the cōmon iudgement of the Romish church Z. It is written of the Circumcellian heretikes that they not onelie exercised most violent persecutions vpon the bodies of Sainctes but also burned to ashes in the fire euen the most holie bookes of God which wee call the Scriptures T. So did Herod afore them and the wicked Israelites afore them also but what of that Z. Their burning of those bookes notified vnto the world in what price and estimacion they had the most pretious word of God T. Yet this is nothing to the Papistes of whom our speech is Z. Yes verie much For they doing the same thing that is burning those bookes do shew thereby in what reuerend accompt they haue the holie word God T. Haue they burned the Scriptures of God as did the Circumcellian heretikes and other impes of Satan Z. Not onlie the Scriptures they haue burned but also in as barberous maner as euer was heard haue they burned into ashes the bodies of men onely for hauing I saie not the whole Bible but euen a litle fragment of the same euen the Lordes praier in the English tong and not allowing the same idolatrouslie to bee said vnto dead Sainctes And how that good Deane of Paules in Lōdon D. Colet should haue bin condemned for an heritike and burned it is notoriouslie wel knowen T. But wherfore Z. For translating the Pater Noster forsooth into English And againe how they haue cited tossed threatned and troubled of good people some for hauing the Newe Testament some the Gospel after S. Mathew some Th'actes of the Apostles some Th'epistles of S. Paul some the Reuelatiō of Sainct Iohn yea some for learning or teaching euen the verie groundes of all true Religion as namely the ten Commaundements the Creed the Lords praier some but for saying