called he Watson the pursuvaÌ„t and O. Cussins a part into a windowe where he made a warrant to send me to prison B. â—ow shal not touch one haire of my head without the wil of my heauenly father A. Nay I wil doe this to rectifie yow B. Consider what yow doe yow shal one day answer it A. Yow wil not sweare yow wil not enter bond for your appearance B. I wil put in band for my baile in the prison and for my true imprisonment A. Nay that wil not serue the turne M r. Doctor enter these thinges Then Cussins wrote that I refused to sweare and enter bond â— I wil send some to yow to conferre A. B That were more requisite before my imprisonment So the Arch B. delivered me to the pursuvant to â—arie me to the 〈…〉 where I as yer 〈…〉 neither knowing the cause of my imprisonment neither haue I as yet heard from him I was no sooner out of his howse but I remembred the place in controversie it is written 1. Cor. 6. 12. Al thinges are lawful for me but al thinges are not profitable I may doe al thinges but I wil not be brought vnder the power of any thing The lord knoweth to deliver the godâ— out of tâ—ntation and to reseâ—â—e the â—â—â—ust vnto the day of Judgement vnder punishment THe 27. of November 8. daies after I was commited by Cant. to the Gatehowse I was sent for by one of his servantes to make appearance before the high Commissioners at Lambeth whither he and my keepers man Nitholas caried me There I found a very great traine without but within a goodlie Synode of Bbs. Oeanes Civilians etc. beside such an apparance of wel-fedde silken Preistes as I suppose might wel haue bâ—seemed the â—aticaue where after to my no smal greif I had heard a scholemaister deny his maister Christ I was called CAnterburie with a grimme and an angrie countenance beholding me made discourse how I refused to sweare on a book etc. as fel out in our first meeting and demannded whither I were now better advised and would sweare I answered that I would not refuse to sweare vpon due occasion and circumstances C. Wil yow then now sweare B. I must first know to what C. So yow shal afterward B. I wil not sweare vnlesse I know before C. Wel I wil thus far satisfie your humour London begaÌ„ to interrupt but Cant cut him of and produced a paper of obiections against me which he delivered to one Beadle to read It conteyned much matter and many suggestions against me disorderly framed according to the malitious humour of mine accuser as that I denyed God to haue a true church in England and to proue this the 4. principal causes framed in way of argumeÌ„t as the worship of God with vs is jdolatrie ergo no true church They haue an Antichristian and jdolatrous ministerie ergo no true church ffurther he saith that the reverend father in God my lords grace of Cant. and al the Bps. of the land are Antichristes ffurther he saith that al the ministers in the land are theeues and mâ—â—therers and secret hypocrites and that al the preachers of the land are hirelinges That Mr. Wiggington and Cartwright straine at a gnat and swollow a camel â—â—urther he 〈…〉 aâ— writers as â—aâ—vin Beza etc. and saith that al catechismes are idolatrous and not to be vsed The reasons to these were vntrulie and disorderley set downe accordingly in the bil which I cannot rehearse L. How say yow Mr. Deane of Pauls here is for yow yow haue written a catechisme Cant. This fellow deaâ—es indifferently he makes vs al alike Thus far haue I satisfied yow now yow know what yow shal sweare vnto how say yow wil yow sweare now Lond. My Lordes grace doth not shew this favour to many Can. ffetch a book Bar. It is needles C. Why wil yow not sweare now B. An oath is a matter of great importance and requireth great consideration But I wil answer yow truly Much of the matter of this bil is true but the forme is false C. Goe to sirra answer directlie wil yow sweare reach him a book B. Ther is more cause to sweare mine accuser I wil not sweare C. Where is his keeper yow shalnot prattle here Away with him clap him vp close close let no man come at him I wil make him tel an other tale per I haue done with him Ther was an article against me in the bil for saying that I thought Elders were Bisshops and Philip. 1. 1. produced here by I plainly discouer mine accuser to be Thornelie of Norwich with whom I had communication at Ware as I rode to London and never talked with any other about this matter THe effect and so neere as my fraile memorie could cary away the very wordes of such interrogatories and answers as were demaÌ„ded of and made by me Henry Barrowe before certeyne Commissioners ther vnto especially appointed by her Maiestie namely the two L. cheef Justices the maister of the Rolles the L. cheef Baron and another Baron of the Exthequor I thinck Baron Gente togither with the Arch B. of Cant the B. of London the B. of Winchester certaine of their Chanâ—ellors and â—â—uil Doctors with their Registers and Scribes The 24. of March I being brought before the Arch B of Cant he made knowne vnto me that they were authorised by her Maiestie to examine me vpon my oath vpon certaine interrogatories and therfore called for a booke ther was brought a great bible in folio faire bound which the Arch B. refused and called for an other which was held to me by 〈…〉 Bar. To what ende Cant. To sweare B. I haue not learned to sweare by any creatures Cant. This is the word of God the Bible B. I began to open the book and meant in deed to haue asked him if the Apocrypha scripture and notes which were in it were the word of God but Cant. belike suspecting some such matter would not suffer me to look into it to whom then I answered that that booke was not the eternal Word of God that eternal God himselfe by whom onely I must sweare and not by any bookes or Bibles Cant. So yow shal sweare by God Bar. To what purpose then is this booke vrged I may sweare by nothing besides him nor by nothing with him Winch. How proue yow that B. It is so commanded in the book of the law Deut. 6. and 10. Chapt. so expounded by sundrie of the prophets by Christ himselfe and his Apostles Cant. Wel wil yow sweare that yow wil answer nothing but the truth and the whole truth to such Interr as we shal demaund of yow B. I haue learned to know the matter before I either sweare or answer Cant. Set downe that he wil not sweare L. E. Justice Yow shal onely sweare to answer the truth if any vnlawful thing be demaunded of yow yow need not answere B. My Lord euery truth requireth
God left for the ordering of his owne howse for as the Apostle saith Hebr. 3 3. he Yea and his ordinances are worthy of more honour then Moses his were And he that addeth vnto the wordes of this book that is to the true order of the church and pure worship of God conteyned therin the Lord God wil adde vnto him of the plagues that are written in this book saith the spirit of God Reuel 22 19. F. Yow allow of M. Luther I am sure what office had he P. He was first a moncke and so a member by his office of the kingdome of Antichrist euen a good while after the Lord had vsed him as a notable instrument to ouerthrow that kingdome afterward he was vtterly disgraded and depriued of al offices so that as the spirit of God saith Reu. 13. 17. he could neither buy nor sel by vertue of any libertie or freedome that he had within the kingdome of the Beast And by this meanes in the Lords great favour he caried not in this regarde any of the Beastes markes he was not of his name nor of the number of his name he denied himself to belong to that kingdome of Satan and that malignant church vtterly refused him to be any of her body and members Since his excommunication and degradation by the Romish church he nameth himself Ecclesiasten in a book of his so 〈…〉 that is a preacher of Christes blessed truth and gospel Now whither he preached by vertue of a lawful office whervnto he was called in the church of Christ or whither he taught bâ— vertue of his giftes and the opportunitie which he had to manifest the truth hauing neither time nor leisure nor yet thinking it needful it mar be to consider by what office he did it I know not of this I am assured that he was one of the famous and glorious witnesses of the Lo. Jesus raised vp to testifie on his behalfe against the abominations of the kingdome of Antichrist and I am assured that by his tongue and pen the Lo. appeared glorioussie in the power of his gospel to the consumption of that man of sin 2. Thes 2 8. Of his office I iudge the best as of a matter vnknowne vnto me that is I thinke him to haue had a pastoral office in the church of Wittemberg whither he had or not his example is no law for the church to walke by it is Chr. Jesus alone that we must heare and folow according to his wil and word must we frame our walking and if it be an Angel from heauen that wil draw vs to swarue from the same we dare not giue eare vnto him Gal. 1. 8. 9. F. And what office had yow in powr church which meet in woods and I know not where P. I haue no office in that pore congregation and as for our meetinges either in woods or any where els we haue the example of our sauiour Christ of his church and servantes in al ages for our warrant it is against our willes that we goe into woods or secret places as we are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ so our desire is to professe the same openly we are ready before men and Angels to shew and to justifie our meetings and our behauiour in them desiring earnestly that we may haue peace and queietnes to serue our God euen before al men that they may be witnesses of our vpright walking towards our God and al the world especially towards our Prince and countrie We know that meeting in woods in taues in mountaines etc. is a part of the crosse and basenes of the gospel wherat it is easy for the natural man to stumble but we are gladly partakers of this meane estate for the Lords sacred veritie and the question should not be so much where we meet as what we doe in our meetings whither our meetings and doings he warranted by the word or not and what inforced vs to meet in these places F. We wil speak of yr vnlawful assemblies afterwards but what caling haue yow to preach were yow neuer made minister according to the order of this land P. I might if I had bene willing haue bene made either Deacon or preist but I thanke the Lo. I euer disliked those popish orders and if I had taken them I would vtterly refuse them and not stand by them at any hand I haue taught publickly in the church of Scotland being thervnto desired earnestly and called by the order of that church charge I neuer had any and therfore I neuer bare office either there or in any other church F. Did not yow preach in these your secret meetings what warr it haue yow so to doe if yow haue no publick office in your church P. Whither I did or not I doe not tel yow for the present But this I say that if the same poore congregation desired to haue the vse of my smal giftes for the instructioÌ„ and consolatioÌ„ therof I would being thervnto prepared most willingly bestow my poore taleÌ„t to their mutual edification and mine F. And may yow teach in the church publickly hauing no publick office therin P. I may because I am a member therof and requested thervnto by the church and iudged to be indued in some measure with giftes meet for the handling of the Lordes sacred word The body of Christ that is euery particuler congregation of the church ought to haue the vse of al the giftes that are in any member therof and the member cannot deny vnto the body the vse of those graces wherwith it is furnished except it wil break the lawâ—â— and order of the body and become vnnatural vnto the same Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. F. Then euery one that wil may preach the word in your assemblie P. Not so for we hold it merely vnlawful yea tending to the Anabaptistical inversion of al good order in the church for any maÌ„ to intermedle with the Lords holy truth beyond the boundes of his giftes or pet for him that is indued with gifts to preach or teach in the church except he be desired and caled thervnto by the body F. But may any preach that hath not an office in the church so to doe P. Yea that he may and the word of God bindeth him to preach whosoever he be that intendeth to become a Pastor or Teacher in the church of Christ before he take his office vpon him and bindeth the church to take the trial of his giftes before they giue him his office least otherwise he should not be meet for it or at the least that handes should not be suddenly laid vpon him 1. Tim. 3 10. and 5 23. F. What office hath he al this while P. No other office then euery member of the body hath who are bound to haue their seueral operation in the body according to that measure of grace which they deriue from their head the Lo. Jesus by the power of his spirit working in them Rom.
The Examinations of Henry Barrowe John Grenewood and John Penrie before the high commissioners and Lordes of the Counsel Penned by the prisoners themselues before their deathes Ther is nothing couered that shal not be reuiled neither hid that shal not be knowen Luke 12. 2. ffor euery worke God himself wil bring Vnto iudgement with euery secret thing whither good or euil Eccles 2. 14. THe testimonie and sufferings of the prisoners whose examinations here ensue cannot easilie gentle reader be forgottâ—Ì„ of and whose harte is touched with care of religion and zeale of the truth How weightie the. causes were for which they suffered may appeare parâ—â—ie by that which foloweth but Here hast thow the maner of the Prelates proceding against them and how they were convicted of theyr Brownisme â—onatisme â—naâ—â—ptisâ—â—ie Sâ—hisme Heresie etc. wherwith they were charged and for which they were so 〈…〉 yeeres kept in miserable close prisons and at last bereaued of their liues Sure whosoeuer had bene the persons and whatsoeuer the erâ—ours it would wel â—aue become the Lord Arch â— of the church of England to haue better instructed and informed them by the â—â—â—rd of truth and wâ—â—lâ—oâ—e doctrine before they had bene adiudged to prison and death â— Tim. 2 24 25. and 4 2. â—it 2 1. Or if Pauls counsel could not take effect yet Pilates example might haue stayed such courses who examined our Lord Christes accusers and found them false and neuer sent him to close prison for refusing to sweare to accuse him self Mat. 27. Luk. 23. Joh. 18. Neither yet did the late prelates in Q. Maries dayes vse â—ltogither such severitie for Bonnet him self with the other tyrants of that 〈…〉 e â—ad often conference and disputation with the Maâ—â—yrs and sought by scriptures to haue ouerthrowen them if they could Euil therfore haue our 〈◊〉 provided for their cause and credit so slightly to deale in matters of such moment and to proceed to such sâ—â—ere to râ—ures before more open and orderly conviction of the faultes and ercours Loe now al posterities shal see their practises and though they haue spilt the blood of those men which vered them so fore yet can they not bereaue the world of their testiâ—â—â—ie which â—y word and writing they haue left behinde them The lord giue these men if they belong vnto hâ—â— to adâ—â—â—t and see their dealinges and to remember the account which they ere long shalbe called vnto before him who is ready to iudge quick and dead The publishing of these thinges can not iustly be offensiue to any seyng 1. nothing 〈◊〉 is here set downe but that which was then demaunded and answered as neere as the prisoners could remember 2. And they which haue themselues set forth the examinations of 〈…〉 heretofore may not be greened now when theyr owne turne is come and their proceedings made knowne likewise they which doe wel need not shunne the light How ever it be the church of God I doubt not shal reap some profit hereby for which how 〈…〉 so euer it be let hâ—â— haue the praise Amen Abrief of the examination of me Henry Barrowe the 19. of Nouember 1586. Before the Arch B. Arch D. and Dr. Cussins as neere as my memorie could cary being at Lambeth THis 19. being the Lords day betwene 9. and 10. oft the clock in the fore noone Mâ—â—ul and I went vnto the Clinke to visit Mâ— Grenewood and the other brethren there emprisoned where we had not bene the space of one quarter of an howre but Mr. Shepheâ—d the keeper of the prison came vp rebuked Mr. Grenewood and stayed me saying he had commandement from his Lords grace so to doe I demanded a sight of his warrant he answered that he would doe it and I might afterward if I were wronged bring mine action So he locked me vp in prison and forthwith went to his Lords grace to Lambeth About one of the clock he returned and brought with him 2. pursuvantes I was forthwith put into a boat and caried to Lambeth By the way one of the pursuvants called Watson drew out of his bosoâ—â— a letter from the court of Lambeth vnto me saying how he had a long time sought me I told him his paynes deserved thanks neither at Gods handes nor mine I refused his letter and said that I obeyed neither it nor him neither would I read it shewing how I was vnder the arrest of the keeper of the Clinke who sate by me Wel we arrived at Lambeth wher after I had perused the B. his state I was brought into his presence chamber yet not vntil this Watson had prevented me and shewed his maister what had passed in the boat Arch B. Barrowe is your name Barrowe B. Yea. A. It is told me that yow refuse to receiue or obey our letter know yow what yow doe it is from the high commissioners and this man a pursuvant B. I refused to receive or obey that letter at that time A. Why so B. Because I was vnder arrest and imprisoned without warrant and against law and therfore now it was too late to bring the letter A. Why may not a Counsellor commit to prison by his bare commandement alledging how the Aldermen of London doe daily B. That is not the question what a counsellor may doe but whither this man may doe it without warrant by the law of the land pointing to the keeper of the Clinke A. Know yow the law of the land B. Very litle yet was I of Grayes Inne some yeares Then his two Doctours and he decided mine vnskilfulnes Let this passe I look for litle help by law against yow I pray yow why haue yow imprisoned me and after this manner sent for me A. That yow shal know vpon yowr oath wil now sweare B. I hold it lawful to sweare so it be done with due order and circumstances A. Reach a book hold it him B. What shal we doe with this A. Lay your hand vpon it man B. To what purpose A. To sweare B. I Vse to sweare by no bookes A. Yow shal not sweare by the book but by God oncly B. So I purpose when I sweare Cus Did yow neuer take an oath at an Assise before the Judges there B. No. Cus But would yow refuse there to lay yowr hand on a book and sweare B. Yea. C. Then would your testimonie not be taken A. Why man the book is no part of the oath it is but a cerimonie B. A needlesse and wicked ceremonie A. Why know yow what yow say know yow what book it is it is the Bible B. I wil sweare by no Bible C. Scismaticks are clamorous alwayes it is a perpetual note to know them by A. M r. D r. Cussins saith true such were the Donatistes alwayes in the counsels and such art thow and al other scismatiks such as thow art B. Say yowr pleasure God forgiue yow I am neither scismatike nor clamourous I answer but yowr demandes if yow wil I wil be
silent A. Wel wil yow lay your hand on the Bible and take an oath B. I vse to ioyne no creatures to the name of God in an oath A Neither shal yow this is but a custome commanded by law B. The law ought not to commannd a wicked custome A Why is it not lawful to lay your hand on a book B. Yes but not in an oath A. Wil yow lay your hand in my hand and sweare B. No. A. Wil yow lay your hand on y e table and sweare B. No. A. Wil yow hold vp your hand towards heauen and sweare B. That is not amisse but I wil vse my libertie A. Why yow hold it lawful to lay your hand on the table and sweare B. Yea so it be not commanded and made of necessitie A. Why the booke is y â— like it is nothing of the oath but a thing indifferent B. If it be nothing of the othe why doe yow so peremptorilie inioyne it and if it be indifferent as yow say it is then doe I wel in not vsing it A. Nay yow doe not wel in refusing it for therin yow shew yowr self disobedient to the higher powers set over yow by God B. Euen now yow said it was a thing indifferent if it be so ther is no power can bring me in bondage to my libertie A. Where finde yow that B. In S Paul 1. Cor. The Arch B. Archd. D r. Cussins al denied it I affirmed it a litle testament in greek and latine was brought me and a Bible I looked foe the place but could not finde it great sault was in my memorie ffor I looked in the 10. chapter neither â—â—deed could I bethinke me where to finde it they so interrupted me A. Your deâ—initie is like yowr law B. The word of God is not the worse for my il memorie A. Yow speak not as yow thinck for yow are prowd B. I haue smal cause to be prowd of my memorie yow see y t default of it but the Apostle saith it Againe they al denyed it Yow then haue no cause to condemne my memorie seing yow al haue vtterly forgotten this sayeng Then repeated I the words Al thinges are lawful for me but I wil not be brought in bondage to my libertie Then they recited Rom. 14. and 1. Corint 8. al thinges are lawful for me but al thinges are not expedient I said I meant not that place A. I would like it wel if yow cited your place in Greek or Latine B. Why yow vnderstand English is not the word of God in English Then Cussin began to speak of indefinita propositio but whervpon I can not cal to remembranc â— I told him we were now about the new Testament it might be if he had asked me that question when I knew him in Cambridge I should then haue answered him he forthwith called to remembrance of what howse I was A. Were yow then of Cambridge B. Yea I knew yow there He said he was there before I was borne I said it might be Then he entred into discourse of his antiquititie Then he asked me if I had read books as Calvin Beza etc I answered that I had read more then ynough But yet I know not why I am emprisoned A. It is reported that yow come not to church are disobedeent to her maiestie and say that ther is not a true church in England what say yow haue yow at any time said thus B. These are reportes when yow produce yowr testimonie I wil answer A. But I wil better beleeue yow vpon yowr oath then them how say yow wil yow sweare B. I wil know what I sweare to before I sweare A. ffirst sweare and then if any thing be vnlawfully demaunded yow shal not answer B. I haue not learned so to sweare I wil first know and consider of the matter before I take an oath Thus many thinges being alleaged to and fro by vs the Arch B. commaunded Cussin to recorde that I refused to sweare vpon a book B. pea and set downe also that I wil not sweare thus at randon but first I wil know and consider of the thinges I sweare vnto whither they require an oath A Wel when were yow at church B. That is nothing to yow A. Yow are a scismatick a recusant a seditious person etc. with many such like B. Say what yow list of me I freelie forgiue yow A. I care not for yowr forgiuenes B. But if yow offend me yow ought to seek it while yow are in the way with me A. When were yow at church B. I haue answered that in an other place it belongeth not to yow A. Why are yow indited B. I am A. Yet belongeth it to ys I wil not onely medle with yow but arraigne yow as an heretick before me B. Yow 〈…〉 no more then God â—â—â— Erre I may but hereticke wil I never be A. Wil yow come to church hereafter B. ffuture thinges are in the Lords handes if I doe not yow haue a law A. Haue yow spoken these wordes of the church of England B. When yow produce your witnesse I wil answer A. But vpon your oath I wil beleeue yow B. But I wil not accuse my self Then began he againe to charge me with scisme sedition heresâ—e B. Yow are lawlesse I had rather yow produced yowr witnesse A. Of what occupation are yow B. A christian A. So are we al. B. I deny that A. But are yow a minister B. No. A. A scholemaister B. No. A. What then of no trade of life B. In your letter yow know my trade in the superscription A Yow are then a gentleman B. After the manner of our countrie a gentleman A. Serue yow any man B. No I am Gods freeman A. Haue yow landes B. No nor fees A. How liue yow B. By Gods goodnes and my freinds A. Haue yow a father aliue B. Yea. A. Wher dwelleth he in Norffolke B. Yea. A. Wher dwel yow in London B. No. A. Wel can yow finde sufficient suretie for your good behaviour B. Yea as sufficient as yow can take A. What yow cannot haue the Queene B. Neither can yow take her she is the iudge of her law yet for my good behauiour I suppose I could get her word A. Doth she know yow then B. I know her A. Els were it pitie of your life B. Not so A. Can yow haue any of these that came with yow to be bound for yow B. I know not I thinke I can A. What know yow them not B. I know one of them A. What is he B. A gentleman of Graies ynne A. What cal yow him B. Lacie A. But know yow what band yow should enter yow are bound hereby to frequent our churches B. I vnderstand yow of my good behauiour A. And in it is this conteyned and so yow had forseyted your band at the first B. Wel now I know yowr minde I wil enter no such bande A Then I wil send yow to prison Then
3. Neither worship yow God aright but after an jdolatrous and superstitious maÌ„ner 4. and your church is not gouerned by Christes Testament but by the Romish courtes and canons etc. L. Tr. Here is matter ynough in deed I perceiue thow takest delight to be an author of this new religion The L. Chanc. said he neuer heard such stuffe before in al his life B. As I was about to shew that neither I was an author of this religioÌ„ and that it was not new as they supposed the B. of Lo. interrupted me and asked me wherin their worship was jdolatrous The L. Treas also demaunded the same question B. Ther is nothing els in that book of your common prayer being demaunded some particulers I shewed that their saintes daies eues fastes idol feastes etc. Lond. Stay there why is it not lawful to keep a memorial of the Saintes in the church B. Not after your manner it is jdolarrie Lond. How proue now that B. By the 1. commaundement Lond. Why that is thow shalt haue no other Gods but me What of that B. The word is Thow shalt haue no other Gods before mâ— face We are therfore forbidden to giue any part of Gods worship to any creature Lond. Why neither doe we B. Yes yow celebrate a day and sanctifie an eaue and cal them by their names yow make a feast and deuise a worship vnto them L. Tr. Why may we not cal the day after their names is not that in our libertie B. No my Lord. L. Tr. How proue yow that B In the beginning of the booke it is written that God himselfe named al the dayes the first the second etc. L. Tr. Why then we may not cal them Sunday Monday etc. B. We are otherwise taught to cal them in the booke of God L. Tr. Why thow they selfe callest it the Lordes day B. And so the holy Ghost calleth it in the â— of the Reuelation Lond. We haue nothing in our saintes dayes but that which is taken forth of the Scriptures B. In that yow say true for yow finde no Saintes dayes in the Scriptures Lond. We finde their Histories and deedes in the Scripture B. But not their dayes and festiuals in the Scripture The Lo. Buckh. then said I was a proud spirit The L. Treas said I had a hotte braine and taking into his hande a book of common prayer which lay on the boord read certaine of the collectes for the Sainte◠〈…〉 Scripture and asked me what I could 〈…〉 therin B. I mislike al for we ought not so to vse Scriptures or prayers Lond. May we not make commemoration of the saintes fiues in the church B. Not after yowr manner to giue peculier dayes eues fastes worship feastes vnto them L. Tr. But what is there jdolatrous B. Al for we ought not so to vse the Scriptures Lond. What not in commemoration of the Saintes B. As I haue said not after yowr manner L. Tr. But what is euil here B. All my Lo. for by abusing the Scripture we may make it an jdol The circumstantes make euil thinges of themselues good as in the massâ—â—ook from whence this stuffe is fetched there are sundry good collectes and places of scripture which their superstitious abuse make abhominable and euil Likewise coniurers make many good prayers which the circumstances also make euil Here the Lo. Buckh. said I was out of my wittes B. No my Lo. I speak the wordes of sobernes and truth as I could make plaine if I might be suffered L. Tr. Here we pray that our liues may be such as theirs was void of couetousnes B. So ought we to doe and not to reade or haue any parte of the scripture without fruite and to follow and flee that which we finde praised and discommended in them yet ought we not to vse the scriptures in this manner to dayes and times neither to be thus restreyned or stinted in our prayers as to be tied to this forme of wordes place time manner kneele stand etc. L. Buckh. This fellow delighteth to heare himselfe speake The L. Chanc. also spake some what at that time which I cannot cal to remembrance as yet Then the Arch B. also spake many thinges against me of smal effect which I haue also forgotten onely this I remember he said I was strower of errors and that therfore he committed me B. In deed yow committed me halfe a yeare close prisoner in the Gatehowse and I neuer vntil now vnderstood the cause why neither as yet know I what errors they be shew them therfore I pray yow The L. Buckh. againe said I was a presumtuous spirit B. My Lo. al spirits must be tried and iudged by the word of God but if I erre my Lo. it is meet I should be shewed wherin L. Chanc. Ther must be streighter lawes made for such fellowes B. Would to God ther were my Lo. our iourny should be the shorter L. Tr. Yow complained to vs of iniustice wherin haue yow wrong B. My Lo. in that we are thus imprisoned without due trial L. Tr. Why yow said yow were condemned vpon the statute B Vniustly my Lo. that statute was not made for vs. L. Tr. Ther must be streighter lawes made for yow B. O my Lo. speak more comfortablie we haue sorrowes ynough L. Tr. In deed thow lookest as if thow hadst a troubled conscience B. No I praise God for it but 〈…〉 wen against her faithful subiectes The L. Tr. answered that the Queenes sword was not as yet drawen against vs. Then in a word or two I complayning of the misery and lingring close imprisonment which we suffer the L. Tr demaunded if we had had no conference The B. of Lond. answered that sundrie had bene with vs as D. Some Grauiat and others but we mocked them that came vnto vs. B. That is not true the Lord knoweth we mock no creature Neither doe I know or haue euer seene to my remembrance that Grauiat yow speak of But miserable phisitians are yow al for M r. Some he indeed was with me but neuer would enter disputation he said he came not therefore but in reasoning manner to know some what of my minde more cleerly Some was then by the Arch B. called and demaunded whither we had conference or no Some shewed how that at our last conference before S r. A. G. ther arose a question betwirt vs whither the Prince might make a positiue law de rebus meâ—ijs of thinges indifferent I denying it he asked me whither she migt make a statute for the reforming excesse of apparel I graunted that she might He then said it was a doctrine of Divils to forbid meate by a positiue law he shewed me then that the Princes law did not binde the conscience and that ther is a difference betwirt forum ciuile and forum conscientiae Some to this effect M r. Young then vncalled came and accused me of vnreuerend speeches vsed against his Lords grace at my first conference with
peticions therin conteyned at one time neither can comprehend them with feeling and faith Q. Is it lawful or no I wil heare no pratling A. It is not lawful for any thing I can see by the Scripture for ther is no commaundement to say the very wordes ouer and Christ and his Apostles prayed in other wordes according to their present necessitie Q. Is it lawful to vse any stinted prayers either publickly or privatly in prayer A. They are Apocrypha and may not be vsed in the publick assemblie the word and the graces of Gods spirit are onely to be vsed there Q. Answer directly is it lawful to vse them publickly or privatly A. Paul saith in Rom. 8. the spirit of God maketh request for vs and that we know not what to aske but the spirit helpeth our infirmities Q. Answer directly A. It is not lawful to vse stinted prayers invented by man either publickly or privatly for any thing I can see by the Scriptures Q. What say yow then to the book of common prayer is it superstitious popish and idolatrous yea or no A. I beseech yow that I may not be vrged by your law I haue thus long bene close prisoner and therfore desire yow to shew me wherfore and not now to entangle me by your law Q. Is it not yowr law now as wel as ours it is the Queenes law Yow are a good subiect A. I am obedient as a true subiect But I took it we had reasoned of your popish canons Q. Is not the common prayer booke established by the Queenes law L. Cheif Just Tel vs what yow thinke of the book of common prayer yow shal haue libertie to calback what yow wil againe A. If it were in free conference as it hath bene often desired by vs I would so doe Winch. Haue yow not vsed these wordes a yeare a goe that it was popish superstitious and idolatrous A. Yes I thincâ— I haue for it was taken out of the Popes portuis Q. Why would yow not answer so before A. Because I see yow goe about to bring me with in the compasse of the law I. Anderson What say yow now to 〈◊〉 A. That ther ar many errors in it and the forme therof is disagreeable to the Scriptures Arch B. Is it contrary to the Scriptures A. It must needs be contrary if it be disagreable Winch. Whither hold yow it idolatrous superstitious and popish A. I haue answered what I thinke of it I hold it ful of errors and the forme therof disagreable to the Scriptures Q. What say yow for mariage did not yow marie one Boman and his wife in the Fleet A. No neither is mariage a part of the ministers office Q. Who did vse prayer A. I thinke I did at that time vse prayer Q. Who ioyned their handes togither A. I know no such thing they did publickly acknowledge their consent before the assemblie Staâ—â—p I wil make them doe penance for it A. Ther be some had more need shew open repeÌ„tance then they B. They may make such mariages vnder a hedge and it hath bene along receiued order to be maried by the minister A. No ther were many faithful witnesses of their consentes and if it were not lawful we haue many examples of the ancient fathers who by your iudgement did amisse Q. What say yow to the church of England is it a true established church of God A. The whole common wealth is not a church I. Anders But doe yow know any true established church in the land A. If I did I would not accuse them vnto yow Q. But what say yow is not the whole land as it standeth now ordered a true established church A. No not as the assemblies are generally ordered if it please yow I wil shew yow the reasons L C. Just No yow shal haue ynough hereafter to shew the reasons it is not now to be stood vpon Q. What doe yow say to the church of England as it is now guided by Bbs. is it Antichristian A. Bp such Bs. and lawes as it is now guided it is not according to the Scriptures Winch. Thow hast Scriptures often in thy mouth is it then Antichristian A. Yea I hold it contrarie to Christes word Q. What say yow to the Sacramentes then are they true Sacramentes A. No they are neither rightly administred according to Christes institution neither haue promise of grace because yow keep not the covenant Q. Speak plainly are they true Sacramentes or no A. No if yow haue no true church yâ—w can haue no true Sacramentes Q. How say yow are we baptised A. Yea yow haue the outward signe which is the washing but no true Sacrament Q. How can that be A. Very wel then I thought to haue shewed reasons but I could not be suffred Q. Is it lawful Baptisme A. Yea. Q. Need we then to be baptised againe if we had that ministerie and gouerment yow speak of A. No. Q. Should we be baptised at al A. Yea or els if we contenme it we deny the profession of grace Q. Doe yow hold it lawful to baptise children A. Yea I am no Anabaptist I thanke God Q. How far differ yow A. So far as truth from errors Q. Yow haue a boy vnbaptised how old is he A. A yeare and a halfe Q. What is his name A. Abel Q. Who gaue him that name A. Myself being father Q. Why hath he not bene baptised A. Because that I haue bene in prison and cannot tel where to goe to a reformed church wher I might haue him baptised according to Gods ordinance Q. Wil yow goe to church to Sâ— Brides A. I know no such church Q. Wil yow goe to Pauls A. No. Q. Doe yow not hold a parish the church A. If al the people were faithful hauing Gods law and ordinances practised amongst them I doe Q. Then yow hold that the parish doe not make it a church A. No but the profession which the people make Q. Doe yow hold that the church ought to be gouerned by a Presbyterie A. Yea euery congregation of Christ ought to be gouerned by that Presbyterie which Christ hath appointed Q. What are those officers A. Pastor Teacher Elder etc. Q. And by no other A. No by no other then Christ hath appointed Q. May this people and presbyterie reforme such thinges as be amisse without the Prince A. They ought to practise Gods lawes and correct vice br the censure of the word Q. What if the Prince forbid them A. They must doe that which God commaundeth neuerthelesse Q. If the Prince doe offende whither may the presbyterie excommunicate the Prince or no A. The wole church may excommunicate any member of that congregation If the partie continue obstinate in open transgression Q. Whither may the Prince be excommunicate A. Ther is no exception of person and I doubt not but her maiestie would be ruled by the word for it is not the men but the word of God which bindeth and looseth