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A30532 Many strong reasons confounded, which would hinder any reasonable man from being a Quaker and offences taken out of the way, but particularly foure and twenty arguments overturned and confuted, put forth and sent into the world by Richard Baxter, a professed minister, but a frequent contenter against the ways of God ... / ... by ... E.B. Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662. 1657 (1657) Wing B6011A; ESTC R14497 21,411 23

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the Scriptures and Ministry which the Quakers make so light of c. To this I answer This is as false as the rest for with all the Saints that ever was upon earth both in doctrine and practice we agree with them and as for the peoples sakes of England I wish his words were true and that they had indeed found a renewing light and life by this Ministry but though he may boast of it now in the day of Gods righteous judgements it shall be found otherwise when it shall be tryed that the renewing hath been but in form and appearance from one likenesse to another and not a renewing from death to life and though there hath been something of God sometime appearing a zeal and a desire after him in the Ministry of England in times past yet from this day hath the Lord forsaken them and such as were sober and sincere in what was made manifest are now become revilers and reproachers slanderers and persecutors of the people of God and from henceforth shall they not boast of many being converted by them from sin unto the way of righteousnesse But further he saith We tell the people that their Ministry doth the people no good and none are the better for it If we do we tell them true And though he saith The experiences of many thousands doth confute this yet say I the experiences of ten thousand times so many more shall confirm it It is true there may be thousands like himself which will not stumble to belye their own souls as he hath done of us yet betwixt him and I in this matter God shall be our Judge who hath not sent this Ministry and yet it hath run therefore it doth not nor shall not profit the people at all He saith It is quite contrary to the nature of Saints to damn and reproach the Saints and call them the children of the Devil This is true but it is not contrary to the nature of the Saints to reprove Hypocrites such as professe that which they do not enjoy and speak that which they have not received from the Lord but steal from other mens words such are many of the Teachers of England and it was the way of Christ and his Apostles soundly to reprove such And this is our way and we do not reproach the Saints nor damn them and yet to the wicked which are not Saints we dare not cry peace but do say The wicked and such who forget God shall be turned into Hell And for this David is our example 14. His fourteenth Reason He saith The Quakers are unlikely to be better then other men seeing they are so notoriously proud and thus this pride doth appeare Saith he It is the supposed spirit as God and the extraordinary holiness and inspiration and abilities that they are proud of and saith he They proclaim themselves perfect without sin And this is the pride he chargeth us with c. To which I answer We say that in Christ we are compleat as the Apostles said to the Churches and do not boast of it neither are proud of it more then the Churches were but in the Lord we will golry and in him rejoice again and again and it is that which we presse after and exhort all to presse after to be perfect in him who takes away our sins and gives power over the temptations of the Devil And he saith We pretend to know mens hearts Yea we do know that the heart of man is desparately wicked and deceitful above all things and by mens words and works we do know their hearts to be evil that acts and speakes wickednesse For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh And if we should say we do not know mens hearts that acts and speaks wickednesse we should be lyars but as I said What we are it is by grace in Christ and we boast not of it in the flesh but our glorying is onely in the Lord in spirit that our names are written in the Book of life And as for our crying against deceivers which he so much stumbles at it is but the practice of Christ and his Apostles as may be read thorow the Scriptures and yet we do it not no more then they did in self-exaltation though he would charge us with it 15. His fifteenth Reason Saith he They plainly discover a persecuting spirit Why saith he what man can in reason think but that they run up and down the world to bring Ministry into hatred c. To this I answer Little of this doth appear that our spirits are persecuting spirits for we pray for our enemies and doth forgive them that doth evil intreat us and renders to no man evil for evil for if we had sought vengeance or prosecuted the good Laws of England against those that had wronged and robbed us and unjustly caused us to be put in prison many might have deeply suffered by true Justice before this day if we had not forgiven our enemies and blessed them that hated us Such hath been the cruelty acted upon us that many might have been arraigned for felony if we had sought the prosecution of the good Laws and not forgiven our enemies Why but the main thing is because we are moved to go up and down the world and declare against the false Ministers and holding forth that Ministry and truly applying it to many of the Teachers of England But let all the world know this is not from a persecuting spirit no more then Isaiah did it and Micha and the rest of the Prophets and Apostles who did zealously give their testimony against such as went for gifts and rewards as the Teachers of England do but this is that which he is offended at and calls it a persecuting spirit which is not so but in love to peoples souls that they may deny the evil and follow the good And that our Ancestors have persecuted to death as he saith This is also a lye and of the Devil for our Ancestors were the Saints who were called of God and were not of the world even as we are not of the world and we are persecuted but seeks not to persecute any and gives our witnesse faithfully against this generation and against the sinnes both of Teachers and people and this I suppose is it even our zeal for the Name of the Lord against unrighteousnesse which he falsly calls a persecuting spirit 16. His sixteenth Reason is Some Interrogatories saith he What reasonable man should turn Quaker that sees the common fruit of their Doctrine what good do they do whereever they come but saith he hate both godly Teachers and people c. Ans. To this I answer The fruit of our Doctrine is begetting people to the knowledge of God and a converting them from sin and death and from the wayes and works of unrighteousnesse to be the servants of the Lord and every spiritual man doth see this to be the fruit of our doctrine It