readeth their own writers or liveth among them and seeth their lives will hardly think so He that had but seen the Murders of their Popes for the obtaining of the Popedom or how Pope Stephen raged against the Carcass of Pope Formosus drawing it out of the grave and changing its Pontifical habit to a secular and cutting off his fingers or he that had seen Pope Christopher casting the Corps of Pope Leo the fift into the River Tiber or Pope Sergius keeping the said Christopher bound in prison or Pope Boniface the seventh putting out his Cardinals eyes would scarce believe that the Holy Seat of Peter were indeed Holy all which Platina and others of their own writers give us notice of He that readeth Baronius himself telling us To. 10. an 897. n. 6. how Pope Stephen the seventh defiled St. Peters seat with unheard of sacriledge not to be named and sect 4. ib. and how the Princes of Tuscia were brought into Peters Chair and Christs Throne being monstrous men of most filthy lives and desperate manners and every way most filthy He that shall read the same flattering Cardinal saying Can. 900. sect 1. that ugly monsters were thrust into the Papacy that it was dawbed with dung infected with stinks defiled with filthiness and collowed by these with a perpeutal infamy And an 912. sect 8. that at Rome the most powerful and the most sordid whores did Rule at whose will the seats were changed Bishops were made and which is horrid to be heard and not to be spoken their sweet-hearts false Popes were thrust into Peters seat And that for an hundred and fifty years the Popes were wholly faln from the vertue of their Predecessors being disorderly and Apostatical rather then Apostolical not entring by the door but by the back-door saith a passionate Papist Genebrard Chron. l. 4. an 901. I say he that shall read these impartially will scarce think the Head of their Church hath been Holy which is an Essential part of it nor that their succession is uninterrupted But if besides these you would read but Nic. Clemangis Alvarus Pelagius de planctu Ecclesiae lib. 2. art 2. fol. 104. and many such like or their Poets Mantuan Pantes c. or Petrarch Mirandula c. you would think the Holiness of Rome-should be the poorest proof in the world of their being the only Church Their Espensaeus and others recite that Distich Vivere qui cupitis sanctè discedite Româ Omnia cùm liceant non licet esse bonum Platina saith in vita Marcellini Our vices are so increased that they have scarce left us any place for mercy with God How great is the Covetousness of the Priests especially of those that rule all how great lust how great ambition and pomp how great ignorance of themselves and of the Christian doctrine how little Religion and that rather counterfeit then true how corrupt manners even such as in the prophanest secular men were to be detested its not worth the speaking when they sin so openly and so publikely as if they sought Praise by it Their Claudius Espensaeus on Tit. pag. 75. saith Where is there under the Sun a greater liberty clamor impunity of all evil that I say not infamy and impudency then at Rome verily it is such as no man can believe but he that hath seen it and no man can deny it that hath seen it This was written since the Council of Trent And in the Council of Trent their Cornelius Muss a Bishop there and the wonder of his age among the Papists saith that there was no monsters of filthiness or sink or plague of uncleanness with which both people and Priest was not defiled In the very Sanctuary of God there was no shame no modesty no hope or regard of good living but unbridled and untamed lust singular audaciousness incredible wickedness And after more of the like he adds Would they had not faln from Religion to superstition from faith to infidelity from Christ to Antichrist yea as men that had no souls from God to Epicurus or Pythagoras saying in an impious heart and an impudent mouth there is no God And yet now of a long time there hath been no Pastor that would require or seek them again I say there was none to seek them because they all sought their own things but not one the things of Jesus Christ The same Bishop Cornelius Muss after the Council writes thus To. 2. Serm 2. Dom. V. Quadr. The Roman Name is hatefull with all Nations and see I pray you how little esteem the Church it self is of because of the scandals that are heard seen and felt I speak not now of enemies that call it Babylon Hell the Whore and say it is the sink of all Errours But I speak of friends that groan and daily sigh within themselves saying O holy City how art thou thus profaned O glorious City that art thus become vile thus contemned and neglected These and many more such Testimonies of their own writers Rivet and many of ours have oft set before them Guicciardine their Historian saith that Those are called Good Popes whose Goodness is not worse then other mens wickedness And if you think that now the matter is much mended read but Claud. Espensaeus in Tit. 1. pag. 75. complaining that the promises made by the Pope of Reformation at the Council of Trent were all broken and nothing done but deceit and shews And of Pope Sixtus the fifth Bellarmine gave out his judgement that he thought when he dyed he went to the Devil saying Qui sine paenitentia vivit sine paenitentia moritur proculdubio ad infernum descendit He that lives without Repentance and dyeth without Repentance undoubtedly goes to Hell And saith Watson of him in Quodl b. pag. 56 57. Bellarmine said to an English Doctor Conceptis verbis quantum capio quantum sapio quantum intelligo Dominus noster Papa descendit ad infernum As far as I can reach as far as I have any wisdom as far as I understand in plain terms our Lord the Pope is gone to Hell But which way he went thither all the world knows not but Barthol Morisot in the Life of Henry the Great of France cap. 17. saith That when the Spaniards perceived his contrivances to forsake their party lest he should join with the enemy they caused him to be strangled in the night by a Franciscan or one in a Monks habit and the next day gave out that a Domestick Devil had strangled him and to make good the report a Book was written of his life and printed where all the wickedness of Pope Alexander the sixth is charged on him And how the Popes are still chosen by impious Juglings and combinations Rivet tells you out of your own champion Cardinal Perron his Legationes Negotiat And of the saying of Cardinal Ossatus ad D. Ville roy Epist 87. concerning Pope Clement the eighth esteemed one of the very best of
false So that here we must break with a Papist even where we might join in dispute with a heathen And how will Papists deal with Heathens if they will deny the proofs from sense and reason 3. But will they stand to the Validity of Proofs from Scripture No For 1. They take it to be but part of Gods word so that we may nor argue Negatively It is not in the holy Scripture therefore it is not an Article of faith or a Law of God For they will presently appeal to Tradition 2. And even so much as is in Scripture though they confess it to be true yet they confess it not to be by us intelligible and will not admit of any proof from it but with this limitation that you take it in that sense as the Church takes it For they are sworn by the Trent Oath to take it in that sence as the Holy Mother Church doth hold and hath held it in and never to take or interpret it but according to the unanimous sense of the Fathers So that they must know what sense all the Fathers are unanimous in before they can admit a proof from Scripture And before that can be done above a Cart-load of books must be read over or searched and when that 's done they will find that most texts were never medled with by most of those Fathers in their writings and in those that they did meddle with they disagreed in multitudes and where they disagree they are not unanimous and there the Papists are sworn to believe no sense at all And if they would have come down to a Major vote it is no short or easie matter to gather the votes And if they know the Fathers unanimous consent yet must they have the sense of the present Church too And is it not all one to make your adversary the Judge of your cause as the Judge of your Evidences and all your proofs 4. Well but at least may we not hope that they will stand to the Judgement of the Catholick Church And if so we will not take it for our adversary No they will not do so neither For 1. When they deny proof from sense and reason they must needs deny all that 's brought from the Church For the Church cannot judge it self but on supposition of the infallibility of sense 2. And when you argue from the judgement and practice of the greater part of the Church they presently disclaim them all as Hereticks or Schismaticks and will have no man be a Valid witness but themselves The Greeks the Aethiopians the Armenians the Protestants all are Hereticks or Schismaticks save they and therefore may not be witnesses in the case So that you see upon what terms we stand with the Papists that will admit of no proofs upon the Infallibility of Sense or Reason or the sufficiency of Scripture or the testimony of the Catholick Church but only from themselves CHAP. XIII Detect 4 UNderstand what the Papists mean when they are still calling to you for a Judge of Controversies If you would dispute with them they are presently asking you Who shall be the judge and perswading you that it is in vain to dispute without a living Judge for every man will be the Judge himself and every mans cause will be right in his own eyes and all the world will be still at odds till we are agreed who shall be the Judge To help you to see the sense of this deceit and then to confute it 1. You may easily observe that this is the plain drift of all to perswade you to make them your judges and yield the cause instead of disputing it For it is no other judge but themselves that they will admit Yield first that the Pope or his Council is the judge of all controversies and then its folly to dispute against them so that if you will yield them the cause first they will then dispute with you after 2. But what is to be said to the pretence of the Necessity of a Judge I answer 1. It s against all reason and experience to think that all enquiries or disputes are vain unless there be a Judge to decide the case A Judge is a Ruling decider not to satisfie mens minds so much as to preserve Order and Peace and Justice in the Society But there are thousands of cases to be privately discussed that we never need to bring to a Judge Every Husbandman and Tradesman and Navigator and other Artificer doth meet with doubts and difficulties in his way which he laboureth to Discern and satisfieth himself with a Judgement of Discretion without a Ruling Judge We eat and drink and clothe our selves and follow our daily labours without a Judge though we meet with controversies in almost all what meat or drink is best for quality or quantity and a hundred like doubts Men do marry and build and buy and sell and take Physick and dispatch their greatest worldly business without a Judge Judges are only for such controverted cases as cannot well be decided without them to the attaining of the Ends of Government 2. Is it not against the daily practice of the Papists to think or say that all disputes and controversies must have a Judge Who is the Judge between the Nominals Reals and Formalists the Dominicans Franciscans and Jesuites in all those controversies which have Cartloads of Books written on them Their Pope or Councils dare not Judge between them Do they not daily dispute in their Schools among themselves without a Judge and still write books against one another without a Judge 3. Understand well the use and differences of Judgement The sentence is but a means to the execution and Judges cannot determine the mind and will of man but preserve outward Order if men will not see the truth themselves Me thinks the Jesuits that are so eager for free will should easily grant that the Pope by his definition cannot determine the Will of man And they see that Hereticks remain Hereticks when the Pope hath said all that he can And if he can cure them all by his determinations he is much too blame that he doth not And if a mans mind be to be settled an Infallible Teacher is fitter then a Judge Judgement then being for Execution when you ask Who shall be the Judge I answer that Judgement is either total absolute and final or it is only to a certain particular end limited and subordinate from which there is an Appeal In the former case there is no Judge but Christ and the Father by him No absolute decision can be made till the great Judgement come and then all will be fully and finally decided And for the limited present Judgements of men they are of several sorts according to their several Ends. When the question is Who shall be corporally punished as an Heretick the Magistrate is Judge For coercive punishment being his work the Judgement must be his also But when the question is Who
meant the Lyon that dyed in the defence of Thecla And in that place Thecla is brought as calling Death a Baptism However that word which might easily be mistaken is no great disproof that this is the same story And for the Fathers Testimony as we believe that a famous Martyr called Thecla there was from whence the occasion of the story rose so it doth but shew how unfit the Fathers are to be the Authors of our Faith or to be esteemed infallible that so easily believe and recite the forged stories of an Asiatick Presbyter even when Tertullian had before revealed the deceit But if really this Book was written by Basil of Seleucia and was not spurious then we yet further see that they that rest upon the Holy Scriptures alone for the matters of their faith do take a surer wiser way then they that build all on the credit of such credulous imprudent fabulous Fathers as this author was By this little taste you may see how their Records and Testimonies from Antiquity are to be trusted Even as Zosimus report of the Nicene Canon to the African Council was who proved it a forgery and so rejected it when the writings are only in their keeping and their interest calleth them to deprave them they are little to be trusted who dare venture to corrupt those that are in the hands of the Christian world CHAP. XXVIII Detect 19. ANother of the Popish devices is when they have laid their own cause upon so many forgeries and uphold it by so many false reports to make the people believe that it is we that are the lyars and that we are not to be believed in any thing that we say of them and that we misreport the Fathers belye the Roman Catholicks and therefore no man should read our Books or discourse with us so as to afford us any credence So that indeed they get as much by meer perswading the people that we are Lyars as by any way that I know We cannot tell them what is in their own Writers but the ignorant people are commonly taught to say we slander them Though we cite the book and page and line and tell them that they were printed at Rome or Colen or Antwerp or Paris by men of their own Profession yet they believe us not for they are instructed to hold us for lyars that we may be uncapable of doing them good If we cite any of the Fathers they tell us that we misalledge them or have corrupted them or they say no such thing If we shew them the books published by their own Doctors and licensed by their Superiors and printed by Papists yet they will not believe us And so they are taught the easiest way in the world to repell the truth and confute those that would do them good It is no more but say you lye and all 's done In such a case as this what is there to be done Ignorance and Incredulity thus purposely conjoyned are the wall of brass that is opposed to our endeavours To what purpose should we speak to them that will not hear In such a case I know but one of these two wayes 1. To endeavour to revive the stupified humanity and Reason of these men and ask them Is Religion the work of a man or of a beast Of a wise man or of a mad man Is it a Reasonable or an Unreasonable course If it be Reasonable why then will you go without Reason upon other mens bare words But if you are so little men as to venture your souls without Reason me thinks you should not venture against it Would you rest on the bare word of one of these men if it went against Reason If so then you renounce your manhood But suppose you will be so unreasonable yet I hope you have your five senses still What if a Priest shall tell you that the Crow is white and the snow is black or that you see not when you know you see will you believe him If you will believe them before your eyes and taste and feeling then I have done with you who can dispute with stocks and stones or men so far forsaken of God as to renounce all their senses But if you will not believe a Priest against your eyes and other senses then why do you believe him that Bread is not Bread and Wine is not Wine when the eyes and smell and taste of all men say it is And if your senses tell you that your Priests deceive you in one thing me thinks you should not be so confident of them in other things as to believe and hearken to none but them 2. If this will not serve try whether you can procure their Priests to discuss those points before the incredulous people that so they may hear both sides speak together Get a conference between them and some experienced judicious Divine But this will hardly be obtained For if it be to dispute with one that is able they 'l presently pretend a danger of persecution and no promise of security will satisfie them But if it be a weak unexperienced man that challengeth them then they will venture and take the advantage If nothing else can be done it is the best way to offer them some small Book against Popery to read If they are so captivated that they will neither Hear nor Read and their Leaders will not be drawn to a Dispute I know not what to do but leave them and let them take what they get by their unreasonable obstinacy They are unworthy of truth that set no more by it CHAP. XXIX Detect 20. A Nother of their deceits is by pretended Miracles If they do but hear of a Wench that hath the strangulatus uteri or furor uterinus or such hysterical Passions in any violent degree they presently go to cast the Devil out of her that so they may make deluded people think that they have wrought a Miracle And usually the Countrey people and perhaps the diseased woman her self may be so much unacquainted with the disease as verily to believe the Priests that they have a Devil indeed and so turn Papists when the cure is wrought as thinking it was done by the finger of God The nature of this disease is to cause such strange symptoms that most ignorant people that see them do think that the persons are either bewitched or have a Devil At this very time while I am writing this I am put to disswade a man from accusing one of his neighbours of witchcraft because his daughter hath this disease and cryeth out of her Lest the Papists get further advantage by this ignorance of the people I shall acquaint them briefly with some of the symptoms of this disease It usually seizeth upon young women between the Age of seventeen and thirty two years And most commonly on those that are of a sound complexion somewhat sanguine or at least fleshly and strong and but seldom on the weaker sort in this
Whorehouse to exhort them from Whoredom though he hath found by experience that when he comes among them he is overcome and playes the Whoremonger with them Lest the vices of your Clergy should be laid open and punished you exempt them from the secular power and will not have a Magistrate so much as question them for whoredom drunkenness or the like crimes It is one of Pope Nicolas Decrees as Caranza pag. 395. recites them that No Lay man must judge a Priest nor examine any thing of his life And no secular Prince ought to judge the facts of any Bishops or Priests whatsoever And indeed that is the way to be wicked quietly and sin without noise and infamy But for our parts we do not only subject our selves and all our actions to the tryal of Princes and the lowest Justice of Peace as far as the Law gives him power but we call out to Rulers daily to look more strictly to the Ministry and suffer not one that is ungodly or scandalous in the Church And if one such be known our Godly people will all set against him and will not rest till they cast him out in times when there is opportunity for it and get a better in his stead The whole Countrey knows the Truth of this If you say as the Quakers do that yet the most among us are ungodly I answer that Those among us that are known ungodly and scandalous are not owned by us nor are members of our Church or admitted to the Lords Supper in those Congregations that exercise Church-discipline but they are only as Catechuments whom we preach to and instruct if not cast out Your eighth General Council at Constantinople Can. 14. decreed that Ministers must not fall down to Princes nor eat at their Tables nor debase themselves to them but Emperors must take them as Equals But we are so far from establishing Pride and Arrogancie by a Law that though we hate servile flattery and man-pleasing yet we think it our duty to be the servants of all and to condescend to men of low estate and much more to honour our Superiors and God in them The same Council decreed Canon 21. that None must compose any Accusations against the Pope No marvail then if all Popes go for Innocents But we are lyable to the accusations of any And because you charge our Churches with Unholiness and that with such an height of Impudency as I am certain the Divel himself doth not believe you that provokes you to it even that there is not One Good among us nor one that hath Charity nor can be saved unless by turning Papist I shall therefore go a little higher and tell you that I doubt not but the Churches in England where I live are purer far than those were in the dayes of Augustine Hierom c. yea and that the Pastors of our Churches are less scandalous then they were then what if I should compare many of them even to St. Augustine St. Hierom and such others both in Doctrine and Holiness of Life should I do so I know you would account it arrogancy but yet I will presume to make some comparison and leave you to Judge impartially if you can As for the Heavenliness of their writings let but some of ours be compared with them and you will see at least that they spake by the same spirit and for their Commentaries on Scripture did we miss it as oft as Ambrose Hierom and many more we should bring our selves very low in the esteem of the Church Even your Cajetane doth more boldly censure the Fathers Commentaries then this comes to And as to our lives the Lord knows that I have no pleasure in opening any of the faults of his Saints nor shall I mention any but what are confessed by themselves in Printed Books and mentioned by others and to boast of our own Purity I take to be a detestable thing and contrary to that sense of sin that is in every Saint of God But yet if the Lords Churches and servants are slandered and reproached as they were by the Heathens of old the vindicating them is a duty which we owe to Christ Those Ministers that I Converse with are partly Marryed and partly unmarryed The Marryed live soberly in Conjugal Chastity as burning and shining lights before the people in exemplary Holiness of Life The unmarryed also give up themselves to the Lord and to his service and I verily think that of many such that converse with me there is not one that ever defiled themselves by incontinency and I am confident would be ready to take the most solemn Oath of it if any Papist call them to it And for the people of our Communion through the mercy of God such sins are so rare that if one in a Church be guilty once we all lament it and bring them to penitence or disown them And were the Churches better in the third fourth fift sixt or following Ages I doubt not And I judge by these discoveries 1. By the sad Histories of the Crimes of those times 2. By the lamentable complaints of the Godly Fathers of the Bishops and people of their times What dolefull complaints do Basil Gregory Nazianz. and Greg. Nyssen and Chrysostom Austin c. make it were too long to recite their words What complaints made Gildas of the Brittish Church What a doleful description have we of the Christian Pastors and People in his dayes from Salvian through his whole Book de Gubernat 3. I judge also by the Canons and by the Fathers directions concerning Offendors For example Gregory Mag. saith of drunkards Quod cum venia suo ingenio sunt relinquendi ne deteriores fiant si à tali consuetudine evellantur And was this the Roman Sanctity even then And was this St. Gregories Sanctity that Drunkards must be let alone with pardon lest if they be forced from their custome they be made worse Then fairfall the Ministers of England If such advice were but given by one of us it would seem enough to cast us out of our Ministry We dare not let one drunkard alone in our Church-communion where Church-discipline is set up So Augustine saith that Drunkenness is a mortal sin Si sit assidua if it be daily or usual And that they must be dealt with gently and by fair words and not roughly and sharply If one of us should make so light of Drunkenness what should we be thought I cite these two from Aquinas 22. q. 150. art 1. 4. ad 4 m art 2. 1. Many Canons determine that Priests that will not part with their Concubines shall be suspended from officiating till they let them go Whereas with us a man deserveth to be ejected that should have a Concubine but one night in his life Gratian Distinct 34. citeth c. 17. of a Toletane Council saying that he that hath not a Wife but a Concubine in her stead shall not be put from the Communion His
that changes may be and yet the time and Authors be unknown is from the instance of other Churches that have been corrupted or subverted by Innovations and yet the time and authors are unknown You accuse the Churches in Habassia of many errors your selves and you are not able to tell us when they came in or who introduced them The same may be said of the Georgians Armenians Egyptians yea and of the Greeks and Russians Can you tell us when and by whom each error was introduced that corrupted the Churches mentioned in the Scripture as Corinth Philippi Coloss Thessalonica Ephesus Laodicaea and the rest you know you can give us no better an account of this then we can of the Authors of your Corruptions nor so good You know that among the Primitive Fathers whose writings are come to our hands many errors had the Major vote as that of the Corporeity of Angels which your second General Council at Nice owned and their Copulation with women before the flood the Millenary conceit and many more which you confess to be errors Tell us when any of these came in if you can unless you will believe that Papias received the last from John and then it s no error Who did first bring the Asian Churches to celebrate Easter at a season differing from yours Who first brought the Brittains to it Nay we know not certainly who first Converted many Nations on earth nor when they first received their Christianity and how then should we know when they first received each error And we find that good men did bring in Novelties and what was by them introduced as indifferent would easily by custom grow to seem Necessary and what they received as a doubtfull opinion would easily grow to be esteemed a point of Faith The Presbyters and whole Clergy of Neocaesarea were offended with Basil for his Innovations viz. for bringing in a new Psalmodie or way of singing to God and for his new order of Monasticks and they told him that none of this was so in Gregories dayes and what answereth Basil He denyeth not the Novelty of his Psalmodie but retorts again on them that their Letany also was new and not known in the time of Gregory Thaumaturgus yea saith he How know you that these things were not in the dayes of Gregory For you have kept nothing unchanged to this day of all that he was used to you see what chopping and changing was then in the Church among all sorts when such an alteration was made in less then forty years Yet Basil would not have unity to be laid on any of these things but addeth But we pardon all these things though God will examine all things only let the principal things be safe Basil Epist 63. Isidore Pelusiota lib. 1. Epist 90. saith that the Apostles of the Lord studying to restrain and suppress unmeet loquacity and shewing themselves Masters of modesty and gravity to us did by wise Council permit women to sing in the Churches But as all Gods documents are turned into the contrary so this is turned to dissoluteness and the occasion of sin For they are not affected with deep compunction in singing Divine Hymns but abusing the sweetness of the singing to the irritating and provoking of lust they take it for no better then stage-play songs therefore he adviseth that they be suffered to sing no more Here you see 1. That changes had happened about many Divine things 2. That he adviseth himself the introducing of this novelty that women be forbidden singing in the Church because of the abuse though he confess it a wise Apostolick Order So that for Novelty by good men to creep into Gods worship is not strange 3. Moreover the Nature of the thing may tell all the world that neither you nor we can be accountable of the beginning of every error that creepeth into the Church For 1. The distance of time is great 2. Historians are not so exact and what they tell us not neither you nor we can know 3. Much History is perished 4. Much is corrupted by your wicked forgeries as hath been oft proved to you 5. Mixtures of Fables have hindred the credit of much of it 6. Nations are not individual persons but consist of millions of individuals And as it is not a whole Nation that is converted to the faith at once so neither is it whole Nations that are perverted to Heresie at once but one receiveth it first and then more and more till it over-spread the whole Paul saith that such doctrine eateth like a Gangrene and that is by degrees beginning on one part and proceeding to the rest 7. As I said before that which is at first received but as an Opinion and an Indifferent thing must have time to grow into a Custom and that Custom maketh it a Law and makes Opinions grow up to be Articles of Faith and Ceremonies grow to be Necessary things You know that this is the common way of propagating opinions in the world 4. I have in another Book shewed you out of many of your own writers the rise of divers of your vanities And Usher hath told the Jesuite more and so he hath told you of your thriving to your present height in his Book de success statu Eccles And so hath Mornay in his Mysterie of Iniquity and Rivet in the Defense of him against Cofferellus and Pet. Molinaeus hath purposely written a Book de Novitate Papismi Antiquitate veri Christianismi shewing the Newness of Popery in the several parts of it To these therefore I remit you for Answer to this Objection 5. Can you tell us your selves when many of your doctrines or practices sprung up When took you up your Sabbaths fast for which you have been condemned by a Council You know that when the twentieth Canon of the Nicene Council was made and when the Canons at Trull were made it was the Practice of the Church through the known world to pray and perform other worship standing and to avoid kneeling on the Lords Day Tell us when this Canon and Tradition was first violated by you and by whom It was once the custom of your Church to give Infants the Eucharist who first broke it off It was once your practice to Communicate in both kinds who first denyed the Cup to the Laity At first it was only a doubtful Opinion that Saints are to be Prayed to and the dead prayed for which came into mens minds about the third or fourth Century But who first made them Articles of faith Augustine began to doubt whether there were not some kind of Purgatory But who first made this also a point of faith Who was it that first added the Books of the Maccabees and many others to the Canon of Scripture contrary to the Council of Laodicaea and all the rest of the concent of Antiquity which Dr. Reignolds Dr. Cosin and others have produced Who was it that first taught and practised the
adversary will deny it or accuse it Men are in never the more danger of damnation because a Papist or any other partial Sectary will tell them that they shall be damned We believe not that the Pope hath so far the Power of the Keyes of Heaven as that he can keep out whom he please We have a promise of salvation from Christ and then we can bear the threatning of a Pope When Bellarmine judgeth Pope Sixtus damned himself its strange that he should have a power before to dispose of Heaven for others and shut out whom he pleased that must be shut out himself The Novatians Donatists Anabaptists or any such Sect that held the substance of the Christian faith might have pleaded this Argument as well as the Papists for they also have the courage to pass the sentence of damnation upon others if that will serve turn and we have the Charity to say that some of them may be saved 2. If by the Papists own confession Charity be the life of all the graces or holy qualities of the soul and that which above all others proveth a man to be Justified and in a state of salvation then judge by this Argument of their own whether our charitableness or their uncharitableness be the better sign and whether it be safer to joyn with the charitable or the uncharitable yea with them that are so notoriously uncharitable as to condemn the far greatest part of the Church of Christ meerly because they are not Papists 3. When we say that a Papist may be saved it is with all these limitations 1. We say that a Papist as a Christian may be saved but not as a Papist As a man that hath the Plague may Live but not by the Plague 2. We say that Popery is a great enemy and hinderance to mens salvation and therefore that those among them that are saved must be saved from Popery and not by it 3. We say that therefore salvation is a rarer thing among the Papists then among the Reformed Catholicks where it is most difficult it is like to be most rare many more of the Orthodox are like to be saved then of the Papists 4. And we say that where Popery prevaileth against Christianity and so much mastereth the heart and life that the Christian doctrine is not Practically received there is no salvation to be had for such without Conversion Thus is it that we say a Papist may be saved And for my part I will not be the more uncharitable to them for fear of giving them advantage I know Hunnius hath written a Book to prove them no Christians and Perkins hath written another to prove that a Papist cannot go beyond a Reprobate and I must needs say so too of all those in whom Popery is predominant practically and overcometh Christianity But yet I doubt not but God hath thousands among them that shall be saved partly of the common people that are forced to forbear contradicting the Priests and that understand not or receive not all the mysteries of their deceit and partly among the Fryars and Jesuites where some of them take in the venom but speculatively or not predominantly and practically give themselves to Mortification and an holy Life though I have known none such yet when I read the writings of Gerson Kempis Thaulerus Ferus Barbanson Benedictus Anglus the Life of Mounsieur de Renty and such others though I see in some much of error and meer affectation yet I am easily perswaded to believe that they had the spirit of God and that there are many more such among them But I should be sorry if Holiness were not much more common among us and freer from the mixtures of error and affectation 4. And for our saying that they have the Kernel and so much as is necessary to salvation it is true but it is the same Kernel that we hold and we have it undefiled and unpoysoned and the Papists mix it with the venom of their Errors He that hath all things in his meat and drink that I have in mine may yet make it worse then mine if he will put dung or poyson in it When you have all things necessary in a precious Antidote or other Medicine you may soon marr all by putting in more then all as the Papists do The plain truth is the Papists and Reformed Catholicks are both Christians and Christianity is enough to save them that mar it not but keep it practically and predominantly even as a man that takes poyson and he that taketh none are both of them men and he that takes the poyson may be said to have all the same parts and members as the other and yet not be so likely to live as he that lets it alone And I cannot say but many that take it may recover and if you ask me Which be they I say All those that timely cast it up again or else whose strength of Nature prevaileth against it and keepeth it from mastering the Heart or vital Powers shall be recovered and live but those in whom the poyson prevaileth and is predominant shall die So all those Papists that so receive the Errors of Popery as either to cast them up again or that they are not predominant to the subduing of the power of Christian Faith and Holiness by keeping them from being sincere and practical and predominant these shall be saved but not the rest Now if upon these grounds any man shall think that Popery is the safer way because we say that they have all that is necessary to salvation objectively in their Creed and that a Papist may be saved upon the same terms that man may be perswaded that it is safest taking poyson because that he hath all the parts of a man that takes it and possibly nature may prevail and he may live But yet I shall choose to let it alone 5. The same Papists that say that a Protestant cannot be saved do yet maintain that an Infidel may be saved or one that believeth not the very Articles of the Christian faith You will think this strange But I will a little insist on the proof of it to these uses 1. That you may see that their censures proceed from meer design or partiality 2. That you may see that they make believing in the Pope to be more necessary then believing in Christ or in the Holy Ghost 3. That you may see how holy their Church is that admitteth of Infidels 4. That you may see on how fair grounds they deny that we may be one Catholick Church with the Fathers Greeks Egyptians Abassines Armenians Waldensis c. because of some differences when yet they themselves can be one Church with Infidels or such as deny the Articles of the Creed or at least believe them not 5. And that you may see how well their Religion hangs together and also how well they are agreed among themselves even about the essentials of Christianity it self whether they be
the said Headship of the Pope or Council 2. Because else most of the Christians of the world at this day are Apostates and unchristened Or if that seem a tolerable conclusion to the Romanists Yet 3. Because then Christ had no Church for some hundreds of years which I know they will not think so tolerable a conclusion For to dream that the ancient Christians did know any Head of the Church but Christ or were engaged in loyalty to the Pope or Council is a disease that few are lyable to except such as are strangers to the writings of those times or such as read them with Roman spectacles resolved what to find in them before hand Argum. 14. All Christians are bound to study or labor to be acquainted with the Laws of the Soveraign power of the Church All Christians are not bound to study or labor to be acquainted with the Laws of Popes and Councils Therefore the laws of Popes and Councils are not the Laws of the Soveraign power of the Church The Major is proved in that all subjects must obey the Laws of the Soveraign power But they cannot obey them unless they know them Therefore they are bound to endeavour to know them The Minor is proved 1. In that they being written in Latine and Greek which a very small part of the Christians of the world do understand and their Teachers not sufficiently expounding them and they being more copious and voluminous more obscure and uncertain of which next then for all private Christians to understand the people cannot learn these having enough to do to learn Gods Word 2. The Papists that deny the use of the Holy Scriptures to the people in a known tongue and deny the necessity of understanding them will sure say the same of their Decretals and Canons unless they mean to set them up above the Scripture as well as equal them thereto Argum. 15. The Soveraign Head of the visible Church and Center of our unity must be evident that all the Christian world may know it The Pope and General Council are not such Therefore neither of them are the Head of the Visible Church The Major is confessed by the Opponents and it 's plain because men cannot obey an unknown power The Minor is known by common experience For many a year together by Bellarmines confession learned and wise men could not tell which was the true Pope yea their Councils could not tell Most of the Christian world to this day cannot discern his Commission for that power which he pretendeth to A true General Council now no man can know because it is a non ens Their pretended General Councils are so ravelled in confusion that they are not agreed among themselves which are indeed such and which not but many are rejected and many suspected of which Bellarmine giveth us a list and those that one receiveth another rejecteth and the most by far are rejected by most of the Christian world And when some would take up with the four first and some with six and some with eight the Papists deridingly ask them whether the Church hath not as much authority now as it had then And how shall the Christian world know whether it were a true General Council or not Of which see the difficulties first to be resolved which I have recited in my Disputations against Popery Argum. 16. The Laws of the Soveraign Power of the Church must be certain or else how shall we know what to obey The Laws of Popes and General Councils are not certain Therefore c. The Minor is proved by experience The Popes Decretals are many unknown and many proved forgeries by Blondell ubi sup and many others beyond all question and none of them proved Laws to the Church The Canons of the first Council of Nice are not agreed on among the Papists Many others are proved forged Many are flatly contrary to each other as I have shewed ubi sup and how then shall Christians know what to obey The ancient Canons condemned the gesture of kneeling on the Lords day and consequently then at the Lords Supper the reading of the Heathens Books and many such things which are now taken for lawful The later Councils that contradict the former do seem to most of more questionable authority then they And what Councils are to be received and what rejected they are not agreed among themselves nor have any certain Rule to know by on which they are agreed Nor will their Popes or Councils yet resolve them this great question So that Christians are at a loss concerning these Laws and know not which of them they are obliged by and which not Argum. 17. If the Pope or Council be the Head of the Church then must their Laws be preached to the people by their Teachers But the Laws of Popes and Councils need not be preached to the people by their Teachers Therefore c. The reason of the Major is because the Laws that they must obey in matters spiritual in order to salvation the Ministers must preach to them But these are pretended to be such Therefore c. As to the Minor 1. It would be but an unhansome thing in their own hearing for Preachers to take their Texts out of the Canons or Decretals and preach these day after day to the people which yet they have need to do many a year if the obedience of them be our necessary duty 2. Ministers are commanded to preach only the Gospel and it is said to be sufficient or able to make us perfect and build us up to salvation Therefore we need not preach the Canons or Decretals Argum. 18. While a Visible Head cannot be agreed on even by those that would have the Church united in suoh a Head it is all one to them as if there were no such Head and the union still is unattainable by them But even among the Papists themselves a Visible Head is not cannot be agreed on Therefore c. What good will it do to say we must center some where and know not where and obey some body and know not who The Italians and Spanish make the Pope the Infallible Head and say a General Council without him may err and is but the body The French make the Council the Head and say the Pope may err and that the infallibility such as they plead for is in the Council It is not a Head but this Head in specie that is the form of the Church if any such be And therefore they must needs according to their own principles be of divers Churches while they place the Soveraignty in several sorts and persons Till they better agree among themselves in their Fundamentals and Essentials of the Church we have small encouragement to think of uniting on any of their grounds Argum. 19. The Soveraign Power or Headship over the Church is a thing undoubtedly revealeed in the Holy Scripture For we cannot imagine that the Scripture should be silent in so
is nothing else but the increase and exaggeration of sins in those who are perverse and the decrease and diminution of them in those who amend And pag. 90. that the defect of Gods honour occasioned by Peter was not supplyed and repaired by any other and so not by Christ And pag. 146. that Gods aim is alwayes the utmost good of every creature And he oft enough tels us that God attaineth all his will And is this man a Papist or are Papists in good sadness that tell the world that none but the subjects of the Pope can be saved and yet now the number that perish will be inconsiderable and God aimeth at the utmost Good of every creature Sure he thinks that all the Toads must be made men and all men made Angels and every star must be made a Sun I shall pass by the Books that are written against the Creation and against Scripture and against Hell c. which swarm among us only advising your Highness to take heed that you venture not upon any worldly motives to stand guilty before the living God of allowing or tolerating such Books to be published and such doctrines as these to be preached to your People to the everlasting undoing of their precious souls If you ask who it is that presumeth thus to be your Monitor It is one that serveth so great a Master that he thinks it no unwarrantable presumption in such a case to be faithfully plain with the greatest Prince It is one that stands so neer Eternity where Lazarus shall wear the Crown that unfaithfull man-pleasing would be to him a double crime it is one that rejoyceth in the present happiness of England and earnestly wisheth that it were but as well with the rest of the world and that honoureth all the providences of God by which we have been brought to what we are but dare not own all the actions of men that have been the Instruments as he hath thought meet to manifest in this writing and leave upon record And he is one that concurring in the Common Hopes of greater Blessings yet to these Nations under your Government and observing your Acceptance of the frequent Addresses that from all parts of the Land are made unto you was encouraged to do what you dayly allow your Preachers to do and to concur with the rest in the tenders and some performance of his service and particularly the County of Wilts who have Petitioned you for the Summ of what I have here exprest and whose Petitions I desire may be written upon your heart That the Lord will make you a healer and preserver of his Chucrhes here at home and a successfull helper to his Churches abroad is the earnest prayer of Your Highnesses faithfull Subject Rich. Baxter Reader IF thou come hither with a practical esteem of Truth desiring to know it that thou maist obey it with an humble mind dost study and pray to the Father of Lights and art impartially willing to receive the Truth in the Love of it that thou maist be saved and with diligence and meekness to read and weigh the Evidences that I bring thee thou art then the person to whom I recommend these Papers with confident expectation of success The Controversies here handled are those that have made and still are making the greatest comhustions in the Christian world And yet to almost all men of learning on both sides they seem exceeding easie I seldom meet with a Learned Protestant but taketh Popery for such transparent fallacies that he is little or no whit troubled with any doubtings in the business And I seldom meet with a Learned Papist but is as confident on the other side as if besides them all the Christian world were blind and mad Interest and prejudice must needs do much then on one side at least And which side hath the greatest worldly interest to by as their understanding is soon discerned by one that knows the Papalpower their Cardinals Prelates and the Riches Honours and priviledges of their Clergy and that knows our state And if thou wilt hear the Reasons of the confidence of both sides I will tell it thee here as briesly and plainly as I can We are confident of our own Religion because we believe the Gospel and we have no other Rule and Iest of our Religion And we are confident that Popery is a deceit because we both believe the Gospel and the judgement of the ancient and present Churches and because we believe our sense it self As sure as we know Bread from Flesh and Wine from Blood by seeing tasting c. so sure know we that Popery is false And if a Controversie is not at an End when it is brought to the judgement of all the senses of all the sound men in the world it being about the object of sense then we are past hope of ending controversies And therefore as we will not waste our time with every fellow that will dispute with us that Snow is black or the Fire cold no more will we trouble our selves with these men that tell us that Bread is not bread and Wine is not wine And if you would know the Reasons of the confidence of the Papists I know no more of them but what their Writings and speeches do express and those I have hereafter given you Two things they are still harping on the first is that in our way we have no assurance that the Christian Religion is true or that Scripture is the word of God Save me the labour of repetitions and read but what I have witten in the Preface to the second Part of the Saints Rest Edit 2. c. where I give you the Resolution of our faith and in my Safe Religion Disp 3. and then believe them if thou canst Their second is that thred-bare Question Where was your Church before Luther Where hath it been successively in each age And here meer Sophistry carryeth it through the Papal world to the deluding of the simple that will be catcht with chaffe and are not able to see things for Names I have dealt with some of them that harped on this string and never met with any thing from them that should seem considerable to a discerning man save only the two unanswerable arguments of Confidence that I say not Impudence and Loquacity Though I have more fully shamed this Question in this Book I will here also give you at the entrance a short view of the case The men that ask us where our Church and Religion was either know not through ignorance or will not let others know through wickedness what our Church and Religion is Shew us say they a Church in all ages that held the thirty nine Articles or that held all that the Protestants hold or else they were not Protestants Forsooth we must receive from them a Definition of a Protestant and then we must prove the succession of such Know therefore before you dispute about the succession
what is the thing whose succession is questioned A Protestant is a Christian that holdeth to the holy Scriptures as the sufficient Rule of faith and holy living and protesteth against Popery The Protestant Churches are Societies professing the Protestants Religion The Protestant Religion is an improper speech but the Protestants Religion is a phrase that we shall own For Protestancy is not our Religion it self but the Rejection of Popish corruptions of Religions or defiling Additions If my Rejections of other mens Additions be themselves Additions then is it in the power of any Heretick in the world to force me to Add to my Religion at his Pleasure A thousand new Articles Forms of Worship he may devise and then must I add to my Religion by rejecting them all even as I add to my Apple by wiping the dirt of it or to my Cloaths by brushing them The Protestants Religion is only the Christian Religion the naked Christian Religion alone The Papists the Christian Religion corrupted with abundance of additions The Protestants ever disavowed any Confessions of men as pretended to be the Rule or Law of their Religion The Protestants Religion is the Holy Scriptures alone The Papists Religion is all that is decreed by the Pope and Councils Our Religion containtd in the Scoipture hath its Essentials and Integrals All the Essentials and as much of the Integrals as in the use of means we are able to understand we believe particularly and explicitely the rest we believe generally and implicitely to be all true So that as the Papists will not give us leave to take the writings of Greâ—ser Bellarmine or any of their Doctors yea the Articles of their Divines at Thoren Ratisbone c. to be therefore Articles of their faith but only those that are contained in General Councils approved by the Pope so we require the same justice of them that they call Nothing the Articles of our Faith but what is contained in the Holy Scripture which is the only Rule of our Religion Do they know our Religion better then we do This is our Religion and this we stand to Well! Consider now whether any thing be easier then for a Protestant to shew you a visible Church that hath successively been of his Religion 1. The Christian Religion hath been in all ages since Christ in visible Societies The Religion of Protestants is the Christian Religion therefore the Religion of Protestants hath been in all ages since Christ in visible Societies 2. That Religion which is contained in the Holy Scripture as its Rule or sufficient Revelation hath been professed in all ages in visible Churches But the Religion of Protestants is contained in the Holy Scriptures as its Rule or sufficient Revelation therefore the Religion of Protestants hath been professed in all ages in visible Churches We name the Societies from the places of their residence Our Church as Augustine tels the Donatists begun at Hierusalem and thence was dispersed into Asia Africa and Europe it hath continued in Syria Aethiopia Aegypt India Greece c. If I could name but one Nation that had been of my Religion I should suspect it were not the true Religion It is the Christian world that is instead of a Catalogue to us O but say the Juglers This is a General answer to say you are Christians there are more sorts of Christians then One I Reply It is the General or Catholick that we are speaking of and therefore if it were not such a General answer it were not pertinent to the Question There are no more sorts of Christians but One that is there is no Essential difference among them but there is a gradual integral and modal difference But may not Christians of several Degrees of Knowledge be in the same Catholick Church Our question is not Where any Sect or any particular Church hath had its succession but where that Catholick Church hath been of which we are members And surely Christ hath but One Catholick Church O but say they would you make men believe that Ethiopians Armenians Greeks c. are Protestants you may be ashamed of so gross a fiction I answer Is it the Name of Protestants or their Religion that you would have us prove a succession of These deceivers cheat abundance of poor souls by this one device even supposing that the word Protestant doth denominate our Church from its Essential parts and so call for a Catalogue of Protestants But I would ask them whether we or they do better know our Religion and consequently what a Protestant is If they know it at all it is from our writings or expressions For sure they will not pretend without signs to know our hearts and that better then our selves You must take it from us if you will know what our Religion is as we must take it from you if we will know yours And therefore delude not silly souls by perswading them that you know what our Religion is better then we If you will believe our Books that tell you believe our sayings also and believe me that here tell you my own Religion A Protestant is a Christian that protesteth against Popery Christianity is our Religion Protesting against Popery is our Negation or Rejection of your Corruptions of Religion Men that never heard of the name of Papist or Protestants may be of the same Religion with us If many Nations of the world never received Popery and we reject it if they never knew it and we know it and disown it are we not both of one Religion even in the Integrals One man never heard of the Leprosie another catcheth it and is cured of it and a third flyeth from it and preventeth it And I think all these are truly men yea and in tantum sound men When you call to us for a proof of our succession either you mean it of the Essentials of our Religion and Church or of the Negation of your Corruptions Either you mean it of the points that we are Agreed in or of those we differ in Christianity is it that we are Agreed in and that is our Religion and nothing but that Protestancy as such is but our wiping off the dirt or curing the scab that you have brought upon our Religion Is he not a man as well as you that will not tumble with you in the dirt or come into your Pesthouse If we know not our own Religion then we cannot tell it you and then you cannot know it And if we do know it believe us when we profess our own Belief We still profess before men and Angels that we own no Religion but the Christian Religion nor any Church but the Christian Church nor dream of any Catholick Church but one containing all the true Christians in the world united in Jesus Christ the Head We protest before men and Angels that it is the Holy Scriptures that are the Law and Rule and Test of our Religion And why are we not to be
such as comes not from a wilfull neglect of means there no ignorance of the articles of faith is damnable and so no article absolutely necessary so that the question indeed is not Whether men believe or not but Whether they are Unbelievers or Heathens or ignorant persons by a willfull neglect of sufficiently proposed Truth or not So that all that part of the Heathen or Infidell world O how great that have no such proposals of the Gospel may not only be saved but be better and safer then most Christians if not all who certainly are sinfully ignorant of some truth which they ought to know Obj. But say they it will not stand with faith to deny belief to God in any thing sufficiently revealed for he that believeth him in one thing believeth him in all Answ Very true if they know it to be the Word of God And if this be all the Protestants are ready to averre upon their most solemn Oaths that they believe every thing without exception which they know to be a Divine Revelation and no wonder for so doth every man that believes that there is a God and that he is no lyar If this will serve your turn you have no more to say against us your mouths are stopt But may it not stand with faith to be ignorant and that through sinfull neglect of some revealed truth of God or of the meaning of his word If you are so proud as to think that all the justified are perfect and have no sin yet at last consider whether a man that liveth in Heathenism til fourscore years of age and then turns Christian is not afterward ignorant through his former sinfull negligene But dare you say that you have no sinfull ignorance to bewail Will you confess none nor beg pardon or be beholden to Christ to pardon it That they make no point of faith necessary while they seem to make all necssary see but what I have after cited from Frans à S. Clara probl 15 16 17. and abundance more that are mentioned there by him 3. And that by this Protean jugling they make the Church invisible is apparent For what man breathing knoweth the secrets of the souls of others whether they have resisted or not resisted the light and whether they are ignorant of the articles of faith upon sinfull contempt or for want of some due means of faith or internal capacity or opportunity We are as sure that all men are ignorant of some thing that God hath revealed to be known in nature and Scripture as that they are men But now whether any one of these men be free from those aggravations of his ignorance and that in every point upon which the Papists make him an unbeliever is unknown to others When the Faith or Infidelity of men and so their being in the Church or out of it must not be known by the Matter of Faith which they profess but by the secret passages of their hearts their willingness or unwillingness resistance or not resistance and such like the Church then is invisible no man can say which is it nor who is of it He that professeth not the Faith may be a Catholick and he that professeth it for ought they know may be an Infidel as being sinfully yet ignorant of some one truth that is not in his express confession thus by confusion the bulders of Babel marre their work 4. And that the wisest of them say in the main as we say see here in some proofs Bellarm. de Verbo Dei lib. 4. cap. 11. In the Christian Doctrine both of Faith and Manners some things are simply necessary to salvation to all as the Knowledge of the Articles of the Apostles Creed of the ten Commandements and of some Sacraments The restore not so necessary that a man cannot be saved without the explicite Knowledge belief and profession of them These things that are simply necessary and are profitable to all the Apostles preached to all Allthings are Written by the Apostles which are Necessary to all and which they openly preacht to all see the place Costerus Echirid c. 1. p. 49. Non inficiamur praecipua illa fidei capita quae omnibus Christianis cognitu sunt ad salutem Necessaria perspicuè satis esse Apostolicis scriptis comprehensa That is We deny not that those Chief Heads of the Faith which are to all Christians necessary to be known to salvation are perspicuously enough comprehended in the Writings of the Apostles Judge by these two to spare the trouble of citing more whether they be not forced after all their Cavils to say as we in distinguishing of Articles of Faith And they cannot be ignorant that the Church hath still had Forms of Profession which were called her Symbols as being the Badge of her Members and did not suspend all upon uncertain conjectures about the frame and temper of the Professors minds But if indeed it be not the want of Necessary Articles of Faith that they accuse us of but the want of willingness or diligence to know the truth let them prove their accusations and let those persons that they prove guilty bear the blame Do they think we would not as willingly know the truth as they and that we do not pray as earnestly for Divine illumination Do we not read their Books I verily think incomparably more then they do ours and are we not willing to confer with the wisest of them that can inform us I have often privately and publickly desired you that if any of them can say more then all these Schoolmen Fryars and Jesuites say which I have read they would let me hear it that I may want no means they can afford me for my fuller information But yet they have not done with us When we prove a succession of our Religion by proving a succession of such as adhered to the Scriptures which are the Doctrine of our Religion an Argument that no Papist under heaven can confute they vainly tell us that All Hereticks pretend to Scripture and therefore that will not prove the point But 1. Doth it follow that Scripture is not a sufficient Rule of our Religion because Hereticks may pretend to it You take the 39 Articles for our Religion and yet may Hereticks that are far from our minds pretend to them It 's the liker to be the Rule because all Hereticks pretend it and would borrow credit from it to their Heresies The Law of the Land is the Rule of our Justice and yet Lawyers and their Clients that are contrary to each other do plead it for their contrary Causes The Creed it self is pretended by Arrians for their Heresie What must we have no Rule or Test or discovery of our Religion which a Heretick can pretend for his impiety What words of God or man are not capable of being misinterpreted If we should give you every day a confession of Faith some Hereticks might pretend to hold the same No wonder then if they
to know the right Pope nor know him not to this day If England were fourty years thus divided between two Kings it were certainly two Kingdoms But the true Catholike Church of Christ is but one CHAP. VIII Argum. 6. THE true Catholike Church hath never ceased or discontinued since the founding of it to this day The Church of Rome hath ceased or discontinued therefore the Church of Rome is not the true Catholike Church I prove the Minor for the Major they will grant If the Head which is an Essential part hath discontinued then the Church of Rome hath discontinued But the Head hath discontinued therefore c. The Minor only needs proof and that I prove 1. There have been many years interregnum or vacancy when there was no Pope at all And where then was the Church when it had no Head 2. There have been long successions of such as you confess your selves were not Apostolical but Apostatical 3. Your own Popes and Councils command us to take such for no Popes For example Pope Nicolas in his Decretals see Caranza pag. 393. saith He that by money or the favour of men or popular or military tumults is intruded into the Apostolical seat without the Concordant and Canonical election of the Cardinall and the following religious Clergy let him not be taken for a Pope nor Apostolical but for Apostatical And even of Priests he commandeth Let no man hear Mass of a Priest whom he certaiâ—ly knoweth to have a Concubine or woman introduced Caranza pag. 395. and ibid. he saith Priests that commit fornication cannot have the honour of Priesthood 4. But our greater Argument is from the authority of God and the very nature of the office An infidel or notoriously ungodly man is not capable of being a Pastor of the Church in sensu composito while he is such But the Popes of Rome have been Infidels and notoriously ungodly men therefore they were uncapable of being Pastors of the Church and consequently that Church was Headless and so no Church The Major I prove 1. Where there is not the necessary matter and disposition of the matter there can be no reception of the form But Infidels and notoriously ungodly men are not matter sufficiently disposed to receive the form of Pastoral Power therefore they cannot receive it The Minor is proved 1. As every true Church is a Christian Church it being only a Congregation of Christians that we so call in our present case so every Pastor is a Christian Pastor but an Infidel or notoriously ungodly man is not a Christian Pastor therefore not a true Pastor 2. Otherwise a Mahometan Jew or Heathen may be a true Pope which I think they will deny themselves 3. If any Disposition or Qualification at all be necessary to the being of the Pastoral Office besides manhood then is it necessary that he own God the Father and the Redeemer that is be not notoriously an Infidel or ungodly But some qualification is necessary therefore c. None can be named more necessary then this And that Popes have been such as I here mention is proved before Not to mention Marcellinus that sacrificed to an Idol or Liberius that subscribed to the Arrian profession for I believe there is an hundred times more hope of their Salvation by Repentance then of an hundred of their Successors John the twenty second held that the soul dies with the body of which the Parisians and others condemned him John the twenty third as I shewed before denyed the life to come and so was an Infidel The Witchcraft Poysonings Simony Sodomy Adulteries Incest c. of others are sufficiently recorded by their own Historians CHAP. IX Argum. 7. TO the foregoing Arguments I add the recital of one formerly mentioned for the use of all that have the use of their wits and senses If a man may be sure that he knows bread to be bread and wine to be wine when he seeth feeleth and tasteth them then he may be sure that Popery is a deceit This Consequence they cannot question But a man may be sure that he knoweth bread to be bread and wine to be wine when he seeth feeleth and tasteth them therefore c. Note that I speak of such a knowledge as belongs to men of sound wits and senses and a convenient object and medium It is the senses of the whole world that I appeal to and not of one or two it is bread and wine that are near us in the hand or mouth that I speak of and not at a miles distance in the day-light and not in the dark So that take the bread and wine into your hand and judge of it and let this decide our Controversie If you can tell whether that be bread or no bread you may tell whether the Papists or we are in the right Those therefore that be not learned and subtile enough to judge by Disputations and writings of Learned men may yet judge by their sight and feeling Either you know bread and wine when you see it taste it feel it or you do not If you do then the Controversie is at an end for the senses of all sound men in the world will be against the Papists that say the bread after Consecration is no bread and the wine is no wine But if you cannot know bread when you see feel and eat it then see what follows 1. Then we are sure that the Pope and all his Council are not at all to be trusted for if sence be not to be trusted then the Pope and his Council know not when they read the Scripture and Canons and Fathers and hear Traditions but that they are deceived 2. Then we are uncertain of any Judgement that Pope or Council can give for when they spoke or wrote it we are uncertain whether our eyes and ears or reason judging by them are not deceived in the hearing or reading of their words 3. How ridiculously then do they call for a Judge of Controversies and what a foolish quarrel is it that they make who shall be the Interpreter of Scriptures or Judge of Controversies For what can a Judge do but speak or write his mind and when he hath done you know not what it is that you hear or read because your senses may deceive you It s a far harder matter to understand a sentence or book of the Pope or Council when you read or hear it then to know bread when you see and feel and eat it Many thousands know bread that know not the Popes sentence nor a word of a book 4. And by this rule it is uncertain whether Scripture be true or Christianity the true Religion For we cannot know it but by our sences and if they are so uncertain all our Religion must needs be uncertain 5. Yea we cannot tell what Revelation to desire that should end our Controversies and make us certain For if God should send an Angel or other Messenger from heaven to decide
Well and what 's that to the question O Sir is it not the holy truth of God that you are about and should you thus abuse it and the souls of men you knew the question is Whether sense and the intellect thereby be infallible in judging Bread to be Bread when we see feel and eat it Had you never a word to say to this to perswade men that they have eyes and see not and hands and feel not or that the world knoweth not certainly what they seem to know by seeing and feeling I pray you hereafter deal by us as fairly as Bellarmine did and yet we will thank you for nothing who quite gave away the Roman cause by granting and pleading that sense is infallible in Positives and therefore we may thence say This is a Body because I see it and so this is Bread or wine because I see feel and taste it but not in Negatives and therefore we cannot say this is not a Body because I see it not I pray you give over talking of the Pope or Church or Religion or Men if you are uncertain of substances which are suppose but per accidentia the Objects of your sense And take nothing ill that I write of you till you are more certain that you see it and know what you see 3. But you 'l say Sense and Reason must here vail bonnet to faith Answ In the Negative case let it be granted and any case where faith can be faith But if sense and the Intellect therewith be fallible in Positives so that we cannot know Bread when we see and eat it faith cannot be faith then What talk you of faith if you credit not the soundest senses of all the men in the world when sense and reason are presupposed to faith How know you that faith here contradicteth sense You 'l say because the Church or Scripture saith This is my Body and that there is no Bread But how know you that there is any such thing in Scripture or that the Church so holdeth you think you have read or heard it But how know you that your sense deceived you not He that cannot know Bread when he seeth and eateth it is unlikely to know letters and their meaning when he seeth them See more of my answer to such Objections in a Book entitled The Safe Religion p. 241. to 248. The simplest Reader that hath honesty and charity is secured against Popery by the first Argument which he may make good to his own soul against all the Jesuites on earth And he that is unable to proceed on that account may by the evidence of this last Argument confute any Papist living if he be a man of sense and reason And having brought all our controversie so low that sense it self may be the judge I shall go no further in Argument as thinking it vain to use any reason with that man that will not believe his own eye-sight nor the sight and feeling and taste of all the world besides CHAP. X. I Come now to the next and principal part of my task which is to open to you their Deceits and give you Directions for the discovery and confutation of them that by the help of these you may see the Truth Detect 1. Remember this ground which they have given you that If you prove them guilty but of any one Error in points of belief determined by their Church you thereby disprove the whole body of Popery as such For you pull up the foundation which they build on and the Authority into which they resolve their faith They will grant you that if they are deceived by the Church in one thing they have no Certainty of any thing upon the Churches credit So that if you read Pauls discourse against Praying in an unknown tongue or the many precepts for our reading and meditating in the Law of God or the like and can but perceive that the Popish Latine service or their forbidding men to read the Scripture c. are contrary hereto or if you find out but any one of their Errors you cannot be a Papist if you understand their Profession But it is not so with us for though we know that the Scripture and all that is in it is of infallible Truth and that every true Christian while such is infallible in the Essentials of Christianity for else he were no Christian yet we profess that we know but in part and that our own Writings and Confessions may possibly in some things be besides the sense of Scripture and there being much more propounded in Scripture to our faith then what is of absolute necessity to salvation we may possibly after our studying and praying mistake in some things that are not of the Essence but the Integrity of Christianity and are necessary to the Melius esse the strength or comfort though not to the being of a Christian So that every Error in their faith destroyes their grounds and so their new Religion but so doth not every Error of ours Or to speak more distinctly let us distinguish between the Fides quae qua their Objective faith and our Subjective faith 1. Their Objective Faith hath Errors in it but ours hath none by their own confession For theirs is all the Decrees of their Popes and Councils and ours is only the Holy Scripture which they confess to be infallible Our own writings do but shew how we understand the Scriptures and so whether our subjective faith be right or not 2. We confess that it is not only possible but probable that we are mistaken in some lower points about the meaning of the Scriptures and yet our foundation is still sure But they have in a sort confounded their Subiective and Objective faith and one believes it on that account because others do believe it and so one age or part do but seek for the Object of their faith in the Actual faith of the other Yea 3. They conclude that every point which is of faith that is that 's determined by the Church to be so is of such necessity to salvation that no man can be saved that denyeth it or that doth not believe it if sufficiently proposed But we are assured that though all that is in Scripture be most true yet through misunderstanding some points there proposed to our faith may possibly be denyed and disputed against by a true believer and yet his salvation not be overthrown by it The Papists cry out against us for distinguishing between the Fundamentals or essentials of Religion and the Integrals but we know it to be necessary CHAP. XI Detect 2. WHEN you have brought the matter thus far and see that if they have one errour in faith their whole cause is lost then consider Whether it be Possible for that Doctrine which is so contrary to Scripture and to it self to be free from all Error 1. How contrary it is to Scripture 1. To forbid the reading of Scripture in a known
predestinate c. Answ O what a sort of men have we to deal with The Council of Constance burnt John Huss to ashes for saying that there remained the substance of Bread and Wine after Consecration and that Transubstantiation was a new word to deceive men with as Binnius himself expresseth among their accusations of him And among the articles for discovery of the Hussites one was Whether they take it to be a mortall sin to reject the Sacraments of Confirmation extream unction and marriage And yet now Huss is burnt for it the poor lay-Papists are perswaded by their deceivers that the Hussites were for Transubstantiation and seven Sacraments Why then did a General Council accuse or receive accusation and witness against him for the contrary 2. That the universal Church as invisible and as taken in the first signification containeth none but the truly sanctified and so predestinate we believe as well as Huss though in the second Analogical signification the Church as visible containeth all the Professors of faith and Holiness whether sincere or not 3. And that they were condemned by the Council of Constance and Huss and Hierom burnt after they had a safe conduct doth shew that the faith of Papists is perfidiousness for why should the people be more just then a General Council but it shews not that we and they are not of the same Church or Religion you condemned and burnt those of our Religion too therefore you thought at least that we are neer kin But H. T. proceeds with his precepts Let him not name the Albigenses for they held all marriages to be unlawfull and all things begotten ex coitu to be unclean They held two Gods c. Answ These are not only such falshoods by which you uphold your cause but the more inexcusable and shameless by how much the more frequently and fully detected long ago and yet continued in Perrin Viguerius and many others might have prevented your error especially Bishop Usher de Succes Eccles cap. 6 7 8 9 10. who hath given you enough out of your own writers to have satisfied you and shewed you that it was from the Arrians and Manichees inhabiting those Countreyes among them that the heavy charges of Bernard Eckbertus Schonaugiensis and others were occasioned And see by him there cited what the same Bernard saith against your Church of Rome and then judge which he spoak hardlier of As for the Catharists next added they were not the Puritan Waldenses as you speak but part of the Manichees and if such as they are described we are content to lose their names and are not ambitious to be reputed their Successors He adds Let him not name the Wicklifians for they held that all things came to pass by fatall necessity That Princes and Magistrates fell from their dignity and power by mortall sin Answ We know by many of Wicklifs own books printed and manuscript what his judgement was what ever your Council at Constance accuse him of It was a Divine Necessity opposed to uncertainty and to the determination of an unruled will that he mentioneth And do not your Jesuites lay as heavy a charge on the Dominicans sometimes and with as great cause may many of your Schoolmen be disclaimed for this as Wicklife if you will understand him and them Wicklife was known to obey and teach obedience to Magistrates But is it not a fine world when Wicklife must not be of our Church because he is supposed to deny the power of Magistrates in mortal sin and yet the Pope and his Council determine that Princes or Lords that will not root out such as the Pope cals Hereticks must be cast our and their Countrey given to others It seems you take Wicklife to be some kin to your selves But we doubt not but he was of the Catholick Church and Religion and therefore of the same with us H. T. adds Let him not name the Grecians for they rejected the Communion of Protestants Censur Eccl. Orient They were at least seven hundred or eight hundred year in Communion with the Church of Rome they were united to the Church of Rome again in the Council of Florence They held Transubstantiation seven Sacraments unbloody Sacrifice Prayer to Saints and for the dead Answ If one Patriark or twenty men reject our Communion what 's that to the Millions of Greek Christians that never rejected it And what 's that to all Patriarcks before and after that rejected it not Did Cyril reject our Communion that hath published a Protestant confession and was so maligned and treacherously dealt with to the death and falsly accused to the Turks by the Jesuites for his constancy 2. Do you think the world knoweth not by what inducements you drew a few poor men at Florence to subscribe to a certain union with you and what death the Patriark dyed and how the Greeks resented his fact and what a return they made to your Church I pray perswade your selves that they and we and all are Papists 3. If the Greeks did disclaim Communion with us they are nevertheless of the same Church and Religion with us for all that Paul and Barnabas were both Christians when they parted in dissention If one neighbour in anger call another Traitor unjustly and say he will have no Society with him they may be both the Kings subjects and members of one Common wealth for all that 4. As to the Greeks opinions and the Papists false accusations of them I have spoken already against pretended Veridicus in my Safe Religion It is not you nor all the Jesuites on earth that can prove the Greeks and us to be so distant as not to be of the same Catholick Religion and Church You add Let him not name the Egyptians for they held Transubstantiation and unbloody Sacrifice as is manifest by their Liturgies but denyed the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Son and held but one will in Christ Godignus de reb Abas lib. 1. cap. 28. Answ 1. Godignus talks not of the Egyptians but the Abassines This learned man it seems is so home-bred and confined to the Roman Church that he little regardeth the rest of the Christian world or else he would have known a difference between the Egyptians and Abassines He is likely to know well the true Catholick Church that while 2. You cannot prove that they hold Transubstantion Nor shall your bare naming their Liturgy make us believe it The Egyptian Liturgy you tell us not where to find nor I suppose do you know your selves An Ethiopick Liturgy your compilers of the Bibliotheca Patrum have given us Tom. 6. But 1. It hath no mention of Transubstantiation in it that I can find but only a Hoc est Corpus c. which we say in our Administration as well as they 2. And I find that Liturgy so contrary to the reports of your own writers concerning the practice of the Ethiopians as about the Elevation Confirmation c.
the second and third Age produced no Councils the greater deceivers then are the Papists that have found us Councils then and so you have no Catholick succession proved Yea but he saith they have successions of Popes Martyrs and Confessors which is sufficient for their purposes See the strength of Popery Any thing is sufficient for your purposes it seems Rome had Bishops therefore they were the Universal Rulers of the Church A strong consequence Rome had Martyrs and Confessors therefore it was the Mistris of all Churches Who can resist these arguments But why did you not prove that your Confessors and Martyrs suffered for attesting the Popes Soveraignty If they suffered but for Christianity that will prove them but Christians and not Papists Thus you see to the confusion of the Papists that they have nothing to shew for the succession or antiquity of Popery for the three first Ages Yea worse then nothing For here he comes in with some of the Decretals forsooth of some of their Bishops Decretals unknown till a while ago in the world brought out by Isidore Mercator but with so little cunning as left them naked to the shame of the world the falshood of them being out of themselves fully proved by Blondell Reignolds and many more and confessed by some of themselves Here you see the first foundation of Papal succession even a bundle of fictions lately fetcht from whence they please to cheat the ignorant part of the world But in the fourth and fifth ages H. T. doth make us amends for his want of proof from the three first But suppose he do what 's that to a succession while the three first ages are strangers to Popery Well! but lets hear what he hath at last His first proof after a few silent names is from the Council of Nice And what saith that why 1. It defined that the Son of God is consubstantiall to his Father and true God And what 's that to Popery 2 But it defined the Popes Soveraignty But how prove you that Why it is in the thirty ninth Arab. Canon O what Consciences have those men that dare thus abuse and cheat the ignorant As if the Canons of the first General Council had never been known to the world till the other day that Alphonsus Pisanus a Jesuite publisheth them out of Pope Julius and I know not what Arabick book These men that can make both Councils and Canons at their pleasure above a thousand years after the supposed time of their existence do never need to want authority And indeed this is a cheaper way of Canon-making in a corner then to trouble all the Bishops in the world with a great deal of cost and travail to make them But if this be the foundation the building is answerable Their Bishop Zosimus had not been acquainted with these new Articles of an old Council when he put his trick upon the sixth Council of Carthage where for the advancement of his power though not to an universall Monarchy yet to a preparative degree he layeth his claim from the Council of Nice as saying Placuit ut si Episcopus accusatus fuerit c. which was that If an ejected Bishop appeal to Rome the Bishop of Rome appoint some of the next province to judge or if yet he destre his cause to be heard the Bishop of Rome shall appoint a Presbyter his Legate c. In this Council were 217. Bishops Aurelius being president and Augustine being one They told the Pope that they would yield to him till the true copies of the Council of Nice were searched for those that they had seen had none of them those words in that Zosimus alledged Hereupon they send abroad to the Churches of the East to Constantinople Alexandria Antioch c. for the ancient Canons From hence they received several copies which all agreed but none of them had either Zosimus forgery in nor the forged clause which Bellarmine must have in much less the eighty Canons of Pisanus the Jesuite or this one which H. T. doth found his succession on but only the twenty Canons there mentioned which have not a word for the Popes Soveraignty And here note 1. That Zosimus knew not then of Pisanus Canons or else he would have alledged them nor yet of Bellarmines new part of a Canon for the Primacy of the Bishop of Rome 2. That Zosimus himself had not the faith the wit or the memory to plead either Scripture Apostolical Institution or Tradition for his priviledge but only a false Canon of the Council of Nice as looking no higher it seems for his authority 3. How early the Roman Bishops begun both to aspire and make use of forgeries to accomplish it 4. That there was no such Apostolick or Church Tradition for this Roman power as our Masters of Tradition now plead for which all the Catholick Church must know For the whole Council with all the Churches of Constantinople Alexandria Antioch c. that is in a manner all save Rome were ignorant of that which Zosimus would have had them believe and Bellarmine and H. T. would have us to believe 5. Note also how little the Church then believed the Popes infallibility 6. Yea Note how upon the reception of the several Copies of the Nicene Canons they modestly convicted Zosimus of falshood And how the Council resolved against his usurpation See in the African Councils the Epistle of Cyril and Alexandria and Atticus of Constantinople and the Epistles of the Council to Boniface and Celestine In their Epistle to Boniface before they had received their answers from other Churches about the Nicene Canons they tell him that they believed they should not suffer that Arrogancy non sumus istum typhum passuri But to Celestine they conclude more plainly though modestly Presbyterorum quoque sequentium c. i. e. Let your holiness as beseemeth you repell the wicked refuges of Presbyters and the Clergy that follow them because this is not derogate or taken from the African Church by any Definition of the Fathers and the Nicene Decrees most plainly committed both the inferiour Clergy and Bishops themselves to the Metropolitans For they did most prudently and most justly provide that all businesses N. B. all should be ended in the very places where they begun and the Grace of the holy Ghost will not or should not be wanting to each province which equity should by the Priests of Christ be prudently observed and most constantly maintained Especially because it is granted to every one to appeal to the Councils of their own Province or to a Universall Council if he be offended with the judgement of the Cognitors Unless there should be any one that can think that our God can inspire a justice of tryall into any one man N. B. and deny it to innumerable Priests that are congregated in Councill Or how can that judgement that 's past beyond sea be valid to which the necessary persons of the witness
colo c. 1 worship neither the Image nor a Spirit in it but by the bodily likeness I behold the sign of that which I ought to worship Yea that many of them renounced the worshipping of Devils appeareth by Augustines report of their words in Psal 96. Non colimus mala daemonia c. We worship not evil spirits It is those that you call Angels that we worship who are the powers of the great God and the Ministers of the great God To whom Austin answers Would you would worship them that is honour them aright then you would easily learn of them not to worship them And doubtless few could be so silly as to think there were as many Jupiters or Apollos as there were Images of them in the world So that you see here that some of the Pagans as to Image-worship disclaimed that which the Papists ascribe to them viz. Divine worship Oh but saith H. T. tell us not of particular Doctors but of the Doctrine of Gods Church Answ What not of Saint Thomas What! not of the Army of School Divines before mentioned What! not of the Communis sententia Theologorum the common judgement of Divines for so they call it What not of that which is de fide or consonant to it and whose contrary is heresie or savours of Heresies as they say of Durandus opinion what not of Pope Clement the eighth and the Romane Pontifical pag. 672. wonderful are all these no body in your Church O admirable harmony that is in your united Church But you can agree to leave out the second commandment lest the very words should deter the people from Image worship and to make an irrational division of the tenth to blind their eyes And yet you cry up the Testimony of the Fathers when you are fain to hide one of the ten commandments so that thousands of your poor seduced followers know not that there is such a thing No wonder if you cast away Gregory Nyssen's Epistle against Pilgrimages and Epiphanius his words in the end of his Epistle to Johan Herosol against Images and if Vasquez in 3 Thom. disp 105. c. 3. contrary to the plain words do fain that it was the Image of a prophane or common man that Epiphanius puld down and Al. Cope Dial. 5. c. 21. say that the epistle is counterfeit and not Epiphanius's and if Bellarmine de Imag. c. 9. and Baronius ad an 392. say that this part of the Epistle is forged and if Alphons a Castro cont Haeres de Imag. reproach Epiphanius for it as an Iconoclast so well are you agreed also in the confutation of the Fathers Testimonies that any way will serve your turn though each man have his several way Fair fall Vasquez that plainly confesseth that indeed the Scripture doth forbid not only the worship of an Image for God but also the worshiping of the true God in an Image but saith that this commandment is now repealed and therefore under the Gospel we may do otherwise Vasq li. 2. de Adorat Disp 4. c. 3. Sect. 74. 75. c. 4. Sect. 84. But of this point I shall say no more now but this 1. Many Christian Churches do reject Images from their Churches and worship as well as Protestants 2. More reject statues that reject not pictures 3. Many that keep them worship not them nor God in them or by them as by a mediate object 4. General Councils have been against Images that want nothing but the pleasure of the Pope to make them of as good authority as the Council that was for them 5. That Council that was for them Nice 2. condemneth the Schoolmen and Pope Clement himself as Hereticks for worshiping them or the Cross with Divine worship 6. I again urge any Papist to answer Dallaeus book rationally that can 7. To spare me the labour of saying more of the judgement of the ancient Catholick Church against the Popish use of Images I desire the Reader to peruse what Cassander an honest Papist hath written to that end Consultat de Imag. et simulac who begins thus Ad Imagines vero sanctorum quod attinet certum est initio praedicati Evangelii aliquanto tempore inter Christianos praesertim in ecclesiis imaginum usum non fuisse ut ex Clemente Arnobio patet Tandem picturas in ecclesiam admissas ut rerum gestarum historiam exprimentes c. And he produceth abundance from antiquity against the present Popish use of them 4. Another point in which the Papists pretend to better Countenance from Antiquity then we is the point of the Corporal presence with Transubstantiation But of this there is so much said by multitudes of our Divines that I shall now say no more but desire the studious to Read at least Bishop Ushers Answ to the Jesuite of it and Edmundus Abertinus de Eucharistia a Treatise so full of evidence from Scripture Reason and the judgement of the Fathers that I boldly challenge all the Papists in the world to give a tolerable answer to it that is a better then that is given When we have thus shewed them the stream of Antiquity to have been against them they pass us by and thrust into the ignorant peoples hands a few musty scraps of abused words which are answered and cleared over and over Thus do H. T. D. Baily and others 5. In the point of Satisfaction and Purgatory besides what Sadeel Chamier and others have said Usher and the foresaid Dallaeus in a full Treatise have shewed the Papists nakedness from Antiquity so that modesty should forbid them to pretend the Fathers for them any more if any modesty be left 6. About their Fasts though that be no essential of Religion both the time manner c. is so fully spoak to by the said Dallaeus in another just volume de Jejuniis that Popery in this also is openly condemned by the Fathers in the view of the impartial considerate world The point of Free will and most of the rest in which they imagine that we dissent from Antiquity or the Eastern Churches I have spoak to already in my first Book against Popery I had thought to have gone through the rest particularly at least the rest mentioned by H. T. and D. Baily but finding them so frequently and fully handled already I will forbear such labour in vain CHAP. XXVI Detect 17. ANother of the Papists Deceits and one of the Principal that they support their cause with is A false interpretation and application of all the sayings of the Fathers which they can but force to a shew of countenancing their supremacy That you may find out their jugling in this I shall shew you some of of their Footsteps more particularly 1. Any claim that their own ambitious Bishops have made to a further power then was due to them they use as an Argument for their universal soveraignty when as we deny not but that there was too much pride and Ambition in their Prelates
men know what Council of Carthage decreed that the Bishop primae sedis should be called neither Summus Sacerdos nor Princeps Sacerdotum vel aliquid hujusmodi tantum Episcopus primae sedis i. e. Not the chief Priest or the chief of Priests but the Bishop of the first seat And how long will they shut their eyes against the testimony of two of their own Popes Pelagius and Gregory the first that condemned the name of Universal Bishop Sometime they find the Church of Rome called Apostolick and so were others as well as that as is commonly known And sometime the Pope is called the Pillar of the Church And what of that so are many others as well as he as all the Apostles were as well as Peter The Church is built on the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets That the Pastors of the Church were ordinarily called the Pillars and props of it as by Nicephorus Gildas Theodoret Basil Tertullian Dionysius Hierom Augustine c. you may see proved in Gatakers Cinnus page 395 396. And lastly when the Papists read their Popes called the Successors of Peter they take this as a proof of their Soveraignty Whereas 1. Peter himself had no such Soveraignty 2. They succeed him not in his Apostleship 3. They are called Pauls Successors as well as Peters 4. Others are called Peters Successors too as well as they by the Fathers 5. And other Bishops ordinarily are called the Apostles Successors and other Churches called Apostolick Churches I shall only set before them the words of one man at this time Hesychii Hierosol apud Photium Cod. 269. and desire them to tell me whether ever more were said of the Pope yea or of Peter then he saith of Andrew calling him Chori Apostolici primogenitus primitus defixa Ecclesiae columna Petri Petrus fundamenti fundamentum principii principium vel primitiae qui vocavit antequam vocaretur adduxit priusquam adduceretur i. e. The first begotten of the Apostolick Chore the first fixed Pillar of the Church the Peter of Peter or the Rock of Peter the Foundation of the Foundation the Principal of the Principal who called before he was called and brought others to Christ before he was brought to him by any others And the same Hesychius saith of James apud Photium Cod. 275. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. i. e. With what Praises may I set forth the servant and Brother of Christ the chief Emperour or Commander or Captain of the New Hierusalem the Prince or chief of Priests the President or Principal of the Apostles the Crown or Leader among the Heads the principal Lamp among the Lights the principal planet among the Stars Peter speaketh to the people but James giveth the Law or sets down the Law Can they shew us now where more then this is said of Peter himself Much less of the Pope CHAP. XXVII Detect 18. ANother of the Principal Deceits of the Papists is the forging and corrupting of Councils and Fathers and the citation of such forgeries Be carefull therefore how you receive their Allegations till you have searched and know the Books to be genuine and the particular words to be there and uncorrupted They have by their greatness obtained the opportunity of possessing so many Libraries that they might the easilyer play this abominable game But God in mercy hath kept so many monuments of Antiquity out of their hands partly in the Eastern and partly in the Reformed Churches as suffice to discover abundance of their wicked forgeries and falsifications Of their forging Canons yea feigning Councils that never were as Concil Sinuessan Concil Rom. sub Silvestr See Bishop Ushers Answer to the Jes pag. 12 13. As also of their forging Constantines Donation and Isidore mercators forging of a fardell of Decretals and of their falsifying and corrupting in the Doctrine of the Sacrament the works of Ambrose of Chrysost or the Author operis Imperfecti of Fulbertus Bishop of Chartres of Rabanus of Mentz of Bertram or Ratrannus c. Read I pray you the words detecting their horrible impious cheats But their Indices expurgatorii will acquaint you with much more And yet their secreter expurgations are worst of all What words of Peters Primacy and others for their advantage they have added to Cyprian de unitate Ecclesiae see in Jer. Stephens his Edition of it where much more additions to Cyprians works are detected out of many Oxford Manuscripts Andreas Schottus the Jesuite publishing Basils works at Antwerp Lat. A. D. 1616. with Jesuitical fidelity left out the Epistle in which is this passage following which should not be lost speaking of the Western Bishops he saith verily the manners of Proud men do use to grow more insolent if they be honoured And if God be merciful to us what other addition have we need of But if Gods anger on us remain what help can the pride of the West bring us when they neither know the Truth nor can endure to speak it but being prepossessed with false suspicions they do the same things now which they did in the case of Marcellus contentiously disputing against those that taught the truth but for Heresie confirming it by their authority Indeed I was willing not as representing the publike person of the East to write to their Leader Damasus but nothing about Church matters but that I might intimate that they neither knew the truth of the things that are done with us nor did admit the way by which they might learn them And in general that they should not insult over the calamitous and afflicted nor think that Pride did make for their dignity when that one sin alone is enough to make us hatefull to God so far Basil in that Epistle left out by the Jesuite in which you may see the Romane power in those daies in the consciences of Basil and such other Fathers in the East And by the way how Tertullian reverenced them you may see lib. de pudicit pag. 742. where he calls Zepherinus as we say all to naught And the Asian Bishops condemning of Victor with Irenaeus his reproof of him Cyprians and Firmilians condemning Stephen Marcellinus his condemnation by all Liberius his being so oft Anathematized by Hilary Pictav the resistance of Zosimus and Boniface by the Africans c. shew plainly in what esteem the now-infallible universal Head was then among the Fathers and in all the Churches But when the Papists come to the mention of such passages what juglings do they use sometime they silence them sometime they pass them over in a few words that are buried in a heap of other matters sometime they bring in some forgeries to obscure them But commonly they make a nose of wax of Councils and Fathers as well as of Scripture and put any ridiculous sence upon them that shall serve their turns though perhaps six men among them may have five or six Expositions An Epistle of Ciril of Jerusalem to Austin is forged by one
for such a slander then Calvin Yet because one man Bolseck that was banished and turned Papist and lived then I know not in what Countrey hath written these things against him the rest of them even as much as the late Marquess of Worcester take them up as confidently as if the infallible Chair had uttered them But yet if thou think this Enemy Bolseck is more to be believed then those that lived with Calvin and the City of Geneva that had continual access to him I will give thee such a Testimony as shall shame the Papists that have a spark of modesty Hear then what other Papists themselves say that knew better what they said or made more Conscience of their words Florimundus Raimundus a Papist of Burdeaux or the Jesuite Richeome that wrote in his name writing for the Pope and against Calvin hath these words of him Under a dry and lean body he had a sharp and lively wit ready in answering bold in attempting a great faster even from his youth whether for his health to overcome the head-ach or for his studies There is scarce a man found that ever matched Calvin in Labours for the space of twenty three years in which he remained in the Episcopacy of Geneva he preached every day once and twice on the Lords day of times And every week he read publick Lectures of Divinity besides and every Friday he was at the conference of the Pastors The rest of his time he spent either in writing Books or answering letters Reader is this Testimony from a Papist like the rest But yet thou shalt have more Papirius Massonius a Learned Papist and Schollar to Baldiom one of Calvins Enemies wrote Calvins life and he saith of him No day almost passed in which he did not preach to the Citizens Thrice every eight daies as long as he lived he professed or publikely taught Divinity in the Schools being Laborious and alwayes writing or doing something Of a weak body but worn by watchings reading writing meditations diseases businesses preachings He took very little sleep and therefore much of his works he dictated in bed to his servant that wrote them from his mouth He did eat but once a day and confessed that he found not a more present or surer Remedy for his weakness of stomack and head-ach His cloathing was of small price to cover him rather than adorn him At Worms and Ratisbone he exercised the strength of an excellent wit with so great applause of the Germane Divines that by the judgement of Melanchthon and his Associates by a peculiar priviledge he was called The Divine He wrote as much and as well as any man of the contrary parties whether you respect number acuteness language sharpness emphasis or subtilty not a man of all his Adversaries whether Catholicks Anabaptists Lutheranes Arrians or the forsakers of his Party that wrote against him did seem to match him in gravity of writing and weight of words and sharpness in answering his principles He almost terrified Pighius himself discoursing of free will and Sadaletus These are the words of a Learned Papist But this is not all Abundance of Papists tell us of a story how Calvin hired one in Geneva to take on him dead that he might have the honour of raising him from the dead This the Jesuite Thyraeus de Daemoniacis writes and many others and it goes among them for a currant truth and all from the report of Bolseck But as God would have it Pap. Massonius confuteth this also and saith that his Master Baldwinus knew nothing of it who lived at Geneva and after turned Papist and Calvins enemy and other reasons he giveth to disprove this and the other slanders that were raised of Calvin saying that they were but scriptores plebii maledicendi studio c. vulgar Writers that study or love to reproach or speak evil that vend these things And so much shall serve against the Papists Lies against Luther and Calvin If you would see more of that heap of Lies confuted which the Marquess of Worcester gave in to King Charles read Mr. Chr. Cartwrights Reply to them where part of them and but part are detected And as they have done by these so by others also When Beza was eighty years of age a false report came to the Papists that he was dead Whereupon Claudins Puteanus with his Jesuitical Companions wrote a Book that at his death he turned Papist and renounced his Religion so that the old man that lived seven years longer was fain himself to write against them to prove that he was not dead nor turned Papist These be the means by which men are reconciled to the Church of Rome They have printed also a story that Calvins own Son being bitten by a mad dog was sent by his Father to one of their Saints Images for Cure when no other means would serve and being cured he turned Papist when as the world knew that Calvin never had a Son Also they tell us of a saying of Luthers that This Cause was not begun in the Name of God nor will it be ended in the Name of God This Luther spoke of Eckius and the other Papists as himself professeth in his Answer to Eurferus Tom. 1. fol. 404. And these shameless Lyars confidently publish that he spoke this of himself as the Marquess of Worcester to King Charles did Another saying of his they as impudently abuse viz. If the wife will not let the Maid come perswading the world that Luther would have a man lye with his Maid if his Wife refuse whereas he only labours to prove that Desertion is a sufficient cause of divorce and that if the Wife refuse she should be warned again and again before others and the Judges and in Case of utter refusal and desertion Vasthe may be rejected and Hester the Maid taken to Wife which many a Papist is ready to justifie Yea they annex that Luther would have men Contain but five dayes when as he vehemently detesteth it and urgeth the contrary telling them that God no doubt will enable them to be Continent if they will use his Means Tom. 5. serm de Matrimon They forgot that the 5. supposititious Epist of their Clement pleading for the Community of all things adds In omnibus autem sunt sine dubio Conjuges Among these All no doubt but Wives and Husbands are contained Of the horrid Lyes of Genebrard Possevine and other Papists against Peter Martyr Beza Calvin and others see Dr. Reynolds ad Anglica Seminar ante lib. de Idololatria Rom. Eccl. § 5. pag. 20 21 22 23. When the fall of their house at Black-fryars had killed their Priests and such abundance of the people that were hearing him in the midst of the Sermon they printed a Book to perswade the people beyond sea that it was a company of the Hereticks or Puritans that were killed at the hearing of one of their preachers Dr. Gouge tells you when and where it was printed
only by vertue or meer desert But now this Right side and Left side and Middle and Lower Degree and Presidency and Concomitancy have begot us many Contritions to no purpose and have driven many into the Ditch and have led them away to the region of the Goats What Hierom saith both in his Epistle to Evagrius and on Tit. cap. 2. is commonly known The many plain Testimonies of Anselmn are commonly Cited as plain as Hieroms Alphons à Castro advers Haeres lib. 6. in nom Episcop had more ingenuity then to joyn with them that would wrest Hieroms words to a sence so contrary to their most plain importance Tertullian cap. 17. de Bapt. thought Lay-men in Necessity might Baptize and so doth the Church of Rome now Why then may not Presbyters in such a case at least Ordain when as he there saith Quod ex aequo accipitur ex aequo dari potest And ibid. he saith that it is but propter Ecclesiae honorem that Bishops Rule in such matters and that peace may be kept and Schism avoided But that probati quique seniores did exercise Discipline in the Assembly he testifieth in Apologet. Mr. Prin hath cited you abundance of Fathers that were for the parity of the Ministry or against Prelacy jure Divino Isidore Pelusiat lib. 3. Epist 223. ad Hieracem Episcopatum fugientem saith And when I have shewed what difference there is between the ancient Ministry and the present Tyranny why do you not Crown and Praise the Lovers of equality If you would see more of the Antients making Presbyters to be Bishops and Consenting with Hierom read Sedulius on Tit. 1. Anselm Cantuar in Enarrat in Phil. 1. 1. Beda on Act. 20. Alcuinus de Divinis officiis c. 35 36. and on John lib. 5. Col 547. c. Epist 108. And that Presbyters may Ordain Presbyters see Anselmn on 1 Tim. 4. 14. And Institut in Concil Colon. de sacr Ordin fol. 196. see also what 's said by our Mart. Bucer script Anglic. pag. 254 255 259 291. sequ Pet. Martyr Loc. Commu Clas 4. Loc. 1. sect 23 pag. 849. And Wickliffes Arguments in Waldensis Passim And your own Cassander Consult Artic. 14. saith It is agreed among all that of old in the Apostles dayes there was no difference between Bishops and Presbyters but afterwards for Orders sake and the avoiding of Schism the Bishop was set before the Presbyters And Ockam determineth that by Christs Institution all Priests of what degree soever are of equal Authority Power and Jurisdiction Reynold Peacock Bishop of Chichester wrote a Book de Ministrorum aequalitate which your party caused to be burnt And Richardus Armachanus lib. 9. cap. 5. ad Quest Armen saith There is not found in the Evangelical or Apostolical Scriptures any difference between Bishops and simple Priests called Presbyters whence it follows that there is one Power in all and equall from their Order cap. 7. answering the Question Whether any Priest may Consecrate Churches c. he saith Priests may do it as well as Bishops seeing a Bishop hath no more in such matters then any simple Priest though the Church for reverence to them appoint that those only do it whom we call Bishops It seems therefore that the restriction of the Priests Power was not in the Primitive Church according to the Scripture I refer you to three Books of Mr. Prins viz. his Catalogue his Antipathy of Lordly Prelates c. and his unbishoping of Timothy and Titus where you have the Judgements of many writers of these matters And also to what I have said in my Second Disputation of the Episcopal Controversiès of purpose on this point 7. The chief error of the Papists in this cause is expressed in their reason No man can give the Power that he hath not wherein they intimate that it is Man that giveth the Ministerial Power whereas it is the gift of Christ alone Man doth but design the person that shall receive it and then Christ giveth it by his Law to the person so designed and then man doth in vest him and solemnize his introduction As a woman may choose her an husband but it is not she that giveth him the Power over her but God who determineth of that Power by his Law affixing it to the person chosen by her and her action is but a condition fine qua non or cause of the capacity of the matter to receive the form And so is it here When do but obey God in a right choice and designation of the person his Law doth presently give him the Power which for orders sake he must be in a solemn manner invested with But matters of Order may possibly vary and though they are to be observed as far as may be yet they alwayes give place to the Ends and substance of the work for the ordering whereof they are appoineed 8. Temporal power is as truly and necessarily of God as Ecclesiastical and it was at first given immediately by him and he chose the person And yet there is no Necessity that Kings must prove an uninterrupted Succession God useth means now in designing the persons that shall be Governors of the Nations of the earth But not alway the same means nor hath he tyed himself to a successive Anointing or Election else few Kings on earth would hold their Scepters And no man from any diversity in the cases is able to prove that a man may not as truly be a lawful Church-governor as a lawful Governor of the Commonwealth without an uninterrupted succession of Ministerial Collation 9. If Bellarmine be forced to maintain that with them it is enough that a Pastor have the place and seem lawfull to the people and that they are bound to obey him though it should prove otherwise Then we may as well stand on the same terms as they 10. In a word our Ordination being according to the Law of Christ and the Popes so contrary to it we are ready at any time more fully to compare them and demonstrate to any impartial man that Christ doth much more disown their Ordination then ours and that we enter in Gods appointed way Mr. Eliot in New England may better Ordain a Pastor over the Indians converted by him then leave them without or send to Rome or England for a Bishop or for Orders But again I must refer you of this subject to the Books before mentioned and the Sheet which I have written lest I be over-tedious CHAP. XXXIV Detect 25. ANother of their Deceits is In pretending the Holiness of their Churches and Ministry and the unholiness of ours This being matter of fact a willing and impartial mind may the easier be satisfied in it They prove their Holiness 1. By the Canonized Saints among them 2. By the devotion of their Religious Orders and their strictness of living 3. By their unmarried Clergy 4. By their sanctifying Sacraments and Ceremonies In all which they
such a Church and Ministry as they predicate and yet have no conjecture which it is As if they should believe that there is such a creature as the Moon but be not able to know it from the Stars The second sort of Seekers are to seek whether there be any Organized Political Church or any Ministry or any Ordinances proper to a Church at all or not Not denying them but Doubting and Seeking that so when they have found them at Rome they may prove but Finders and not gross changlings And withall they yield that private men may Declare the Word and pray together and read the Scripture The most rational and modest that hath wrote for this way is the Author of Asober Word to a Serious People A likely thing indeed it is that so rational a man should heartily believe that Christ hath planted so excellent a Ministry and Church and Ordinances as himself describeth and to those standing necessary uses which he mentioneth even instead of Christ to take men into the holy Covenant and yet that all should be left but for an Age or two and that ever since there is no such thing or at least no certainty of it The Stile shews us that this Author is no such dotard as to think as he speaks 3. Another sort of Seekers are those that do not only Doubt of but flatly deny any Ministry and Political Churches and Church-ordinances on Earth as things that are lost in an Universal Apostacy 4. Another sort of Seekers do not only doubt of or deny these Particular Churches and Ordinances but also they are to seek for the Universal Church it self and the holy Scriptures yea many of them not only Questioning them but flatly maintaining that we have no certainty that the Scripture is true or that we have the same that was written by the Apostles or that there is such a thing as true Ministry or State of Christianity in the World Hence it is that some of them pour out so many reproaches against the Ministry and the Holy Scriptures as you may find in Clem. Writer in two ignorant Pamphlets that have scorn in the very Titles as well as through the bulk one called The Jus Divinum of Presbyterie and the other Fides Divina In which he maintaineth the cause of the Infidels The opinion which this sort of men openly profess is that no particular man is bound to believe the Gospel but those that have themselves seen Miracles to confirm it and therefore in the first ages when Miracles were wrought those that saw them were bound to believe in Christ and at the second coming of Christ when again he shall be witnessed by Miracles it will again become a duty to be Christians but not to others that see no Miracles however they may hear of them This doctrine Clem. Writer hath professed to me with his own mouth But I may not censure him to be so weak as to believe himself It 's possible that such a silly soul may be found that shall think that Christ came into the world to set up Christianity as the true Religion for those only in an Age or two or more that saw Miracles but it 's unlikely that a man that hath any considerable use of his reason should be so silly Who will not despise Christ that thinks he came on so low a design Who would not be an Infidel that thinks ten thousand Infidels are saved for one Christian Yea who can be himself a Christian that thinks that he is not bound to be a Christian because he sees not Miracles It 's most evident therefore that this is but a Juggle and that such are either Infidels or Papists Infidelity is the thing professed and therefore that we take them for Infidels they cannot blame us But yet in Charity I hope and not without cause that some of this Profession are but Papists though others I have found to be desperate Infidels A fifth sort called Seekers also there are that own the Church and Ministery and Ordinances but yet suppose themselves above them for they think that these are but the Administrations of Christ to men in the passage to a higher state and that such as have received the Spirit and have the Law once written in their hearts are under as they call it the second Covenant and so are past the lower form of Ordinances Scripture Ministery and visible Churches And a sixth sort of Seekers there are that think the whole company of believers should now be over-grown the Scripture Ministry and Ordinances For they think that the Law was the Fathers Administration and the Gospel Ministry and Sacraments are the Sons Administration and that both these are now past and the season of the Spirits Administration is come which all must attend and quit the lower forms The David-Georgians were the chief that taught the world this lesson their Leader taking himself to be the Holy Ghost All these sorts of Seekers are bred or cherished by the Jesuites and Fryars And the truth is when a man is made a Seeker he is half made a Papist As a Dog when he hath lost his Master will follow almost any body that will whistle him so when men have lost their Ministry Church and Religion they are easily allured to the Church of Rome For they are a body as conspicuous to a carnal eye as any other And who will not rather be of the Roman Church and Religion then of none 4. Another sort of Hiders are the Quakers an impudent Generation and open enough in pulling down but as secret and reserved as the rest in asserting and building up What interests the Papists have in breeding and feeding this Sect among us hath been partly proved from the Oaths of Witnesses and Confessions of Fryars and somewhat I have spoken of it in three several Papers against them The Doctrine of this fourth sort is the same or scarse discernable from the rest 5. A fifth sort of Hiders are those Enthusiasts that shun the affected bombasted language of Behmen and such like but yet give us much of the body of Popery Headed by an infallible Prophetick Spirit instead of the Pope Such as the Authors of the Book against the Assemblies Confession owned by Parker but said to be written by a London Doctor And many such Doctors I know and hear of abroad in England They take on them to be adversaries to the Pope but they are friends to his Doctrines and maintain the necessity of an infallible living Judge and send us to Prophets for this infallible judgement And could the Papists bring men once to this it 's an easie matter to strike off the the feigned Prophetick head by disgracing such as meer fantasticks and to set on the ancient Papal Head which only will agree with the Body which they have received So much of the Libertines and the Hiders of their Religion of several sorts 3. Another sort that are spawned by the Papists are stark
the Murdering of Princes and the pretence of power to dispense with oaths of Allegiance and fidelity and who hath actually so oft pretended to disoblige the subjects and expose Princes and their Dominions to the first occupant I know that many of the seculars in England disowned this doctrine But 1. So never did the Pope but hath owned and practised it 2. By disowning it they disown Popery it self if they know what they do For it is an Article of their Faith and so Essential to their Religion as explicitly held and is determined by a Pope and an approved General Council even 12. the fourth at Lateran under Innocent the third as I before recited the words at large in the third Argument against them here I know some of the Papists would perswade the world that it was none but Mariana the Jesuite that wrote for King killing and that it was first condemned by themselves But the Parliament of Paris tells another story of them as it is recited by Thuanus who was President and then present Hist lib. 130. ad an 1604. And Rivet names them Guignardus that wrote in praise of the murder of Henry the third and of Ode Pichenatus Barterius suborned by Varada c. And Albineus the Jesuite did hear the Murderer of Henry the fourth confess before he did the fact and put off the examiners with this answer that God had given him that special gift to forget when once he had absolved a sinner whatsoever was confessed by him And why was it that France did expel the Jesuites and set up a Pillar of Remembrance of their villanies till Henry the fourth would needs gratifie the Pope by calling them in again and told the Parliament that the peril of it should be on him and so it was for it cost him his life And why did the same Parliament of Paris Novemb. 1610. condemn Bellarmines book against Barclay as an engine of treason and rebellion And the Theological faculty of Paris April 4. 1626. condemned Santarellus Book as guilty of the same villany stirring up people to Rebellion and King-killing And May 12. the University confirmed it And March 13. the Parliament condemned the Book to be burnt And it 's worth the reading which Rivet recites of the Answers of the Jesuites in Paris when the Parliament askt them their judgement of that Book viz. Seeing their General had approved the Book and judged the things that are there written to be certain whether they were of the same mind They answered that Living at Rome he could not but approve what was there approved of But say the Parliament What think you Say the Jesuites the clean contrary Say the Examiners But what would you do if you were at Rome Say the Jesuites That which they do that are at Rome At which said some of the Parliament What! have they one Conscience at Rome and another at Paris God bless us from such confessors as these But yet some of the Papists will seem so honest as to say that private men may not kill a King till he be deposed Very true But withall it is their currant doctrine that if once he be excommunicate he is then no King yea or if he be an Heretick and so being no King they may kill the man and not kill the King This is the jugling of these seeming Loyall subjects You may see it in their own writings Suarez advers Sect. Anglic. lib. 6. cap. 4. Sect. 14. cap. 6. Sect. 22 24. Azorius Jesuita Instit Moral part 1. l. 8. c. 13. He that would see more of their mind in this let him read the Mysterium Patrum Jesuitarum and the Jansenians mysterie of Jesuitism and Bishop Rob. Abbots Antilogia ad Apolog. Eudaemojohan But what need we more then the Decrees of a Pope and General Council and the practice of the Church of Rome for so many ages And for the Popes power to absolve them from all oaths of Allegiance and fidelity the foresaid Pope Innocent and his approved General Council have told the world enough of their mind to put us out of doubt of it But leaving abundance of forreign instances I shall mention but one or two at home The Papists have lately had the confidence to affirm that the Powder-plot and the Spanish invasion in one thousand five hundred eighty eight were not upon a quarrell of Religion nor owned by the Pope King James hath said already so much against them in these points that I think it needless to say any more especially also after Bishop Abbots Antilogia but only here to produce one Testimony of their own concerning the Spanish Invasion Cardinal Ossatus in his 87. Epist ad D. de Ville-roy tels us that Pope Clement the eighth one of the best of all the late ones did press for the King of France to join with Spain in the Invasion of England and the Cardinal answered that the King was tied by an Oath to the Queen of England to which the Pope replyed that The Oath was made to an Heretick but he was bound in another Oath to God and the Pope adding withall that Kings and other Princes do permit themselves all things or tolerate themselves in all things which make for their commodity and that the matter is gone so far that it is not or should not be imputed to them or taken for their fault and he alledged the saying of Franciscus Mariae Duke of Urbine that indeed every one doth blame a Noble man or Great man that is no Soveraign if he keep not his Covenants or fidelity and they account him infamous but supream Princes may without any danger of their reputation make Covenants and break them lye betray and perpetrate other such like things This was good Pope Clement the eighth And can we look for better from the rest You see what Oaths and Covenants are with them And that the design was still carried on against the Queen upon account of Religion and the Realm to have been invaded by the Spaniard on that account and that the principal point of the Plot was to prepare a party within the Realm that might adhere to the invaders all this with much more Sir Francis Walsingham that well knew hath testified to Monsieur Critoy in his Letter Cabal part 2. pag. 39. Thuanus a Moderate Papist and a most knowing and impartial Historian tells you lib. 89. p. 248 249. ad an 1588. that the Spaniards pretended to undertake the expedition only for Religion sake and therefore took with them Martin Alarco Vicar general of the Holy Inquisition with abundance of Capuchins and Jesuites and that they had with them the Popes Bull which they were to publish as soon as they landed and that Cardinal Allan was appointed as the Popes Legate to land at the same time and with full power to see to the restoring of Religion And that the said Bull had these expressions that the Pope by the Power given from God by lawfull