Christ by his Apostles did ordaine and appoint to Preach the Gospell and not onely they but also all that were in the primitive Church lawfully called to preach the Gospell were Bishops de jure divino of divine institution How long I pray you did they continue to be de jure divino Min. They continued to be de jure divino till they came to be Antichrists that is adversaries to Christ then they fell from being Bishops de jure divino of divine institution and came to be Bishops de jure Pontificio of the Popes institution who is therefore called Pater Patrum the Father of the Fathers meaning the Bishops therefore to distinguish the Bishops that are de jure Pontificio of the Popes institution from the godly Bishops that were de jure divino of divine institution they commonly called Prelates or Lord Bishops Gent. Why are they called Prelates Min. The word Praelati Prelates commeth of praeferor to preferre therefore they are called Praelati Prelates because they are preferred and doe preferre themselves before and above their brethren and fellow Ministers Gent. Why are they called Lord Bishops Min. They are called Lord Bishops because they doe Lord it over their brethren and over Gods heritage 1 Pet. 5.3 and have been the chiefe supplanters and persecuters of the Christian Religion ever since the title of Prelates and Lord Bishops was given unto them In Queene Maries time blooddy Bonner Lord Bishop of London and Gardner Lord Bishop of Winchester were fierce and cruell like Dragons in shedding Christian blood and in supplanting the Christian Religion planted by King Edward the sixt till God in mercy did bring Queen Elizabeth to the Crowne then when in her first Parliament the House was about to establish the true Religion the Lord Bishops that were of the House being nine in number did stand up to cry it downe and to have the Romish Religion continued but thankes be to God they prevailed not When Queene Elizabeth came to the Crowne few or none did study Divinity in the Universities therefore Tradesmen such as were of honest life and conversation were made Ministers to read Service and in stead of Preaching to read Homilies till the Lord Jesus in his good time did thrust forth Labourers into his harvest out of the Universities who did discover the Popish errours wherewith the Service Booke was pestered and the unlawfulnesse of the Romish Ceremonies Then the Lord Bishops who till then were quiet did bestirre themselves to disturbe the peace of the Church and to bring in a cursed division according to the words of our Saviour Christ Luke 12.51 Thinke you that I came to give peace on earth I tell you nay but rather division which cursed division hath continued ever since and in every Parliament since that time till now when humble Petitions were made for Reformation the Lord Bishops onely and such as were seduced by them and made to beleeve that the Ceremonies were lawfull and that there was nothing in the Service Booke contrary to Gods Word did bend all their forces against Reformation In the latter end of Queene Elizabeths Reigne when shee began to be sickly and not like to live long then Doctor Bancroft Lord Bishop of London knowing that King Iames was to succeed her and fearing that his Majesty would reforme things amisse in the publick worship and service of God and in the government of the Church did License a Booke written by a Jesuite that he kept in his house wherein it was written that it was in the Popes power as a gift appropriate to Saint Peters chaire to depose the Kings of England and to give authoritie to the people to elect choose and set up another As then so now it is thought that the Archbishop of Canterbury fearing this Parliament hath devised an oath to stirre up so many as he can to resist the Reformation that many doe pray for and hope to see to the glory of God Gent. There was a little Booke written of late and dedicated to the House of Parliament that had most of those things in it that you have spoken of concerning the Service Booke and the Bishops Min. There was so but the Author whereof is much grieved every time that he doth thinke upon it because it was dispersed without his consent and printed false by putting in leaving out of words so as it was not fit to be presented to the House of Parliament Gent. It made mention of Judgements that God hath shewed upon the Church I pray you shew me what those Judgements were Min The most remarkable and fearefull Judgement was shewed on the Parish Church of Withcombe in Devonshire being a very faire Church newly trimmed having a very faire Tower with great and small Pinnacles one of the famousest Towers in the West part of England On the 21. of October 1638. in service time was heard a fearefull Thunder much like the noise or report of great Cannons and a most strange and fearefull darknesse and a strong loathsome smell of brimstone and a fearefull blast that strucke in at the North side of the Tower and tearing through a strong stone wall came into the Church through the highest Window and tooke with it a great part thereof and with a mighty power strucke against the North-side wall of the Church and did batter and shake it very much and went towards the Pulpit and in the way tooke with it the Lime and Sand from the wall and grated the wall and defaced it being newly whited and tore away the side Deske of the Pulpit and coloured the Pulpit blacke and left it moyst as if it had beene newly wiped over with Inke There was also a most fearefull Lightning which did affright the people and scalded them so as the most part of them fell downe some on their knees some on their faces and some one upon another crying The Ministers wife had her Ruffe and linnen next her body burnt off and her body grievously scorched One Mistris Ditford sitting in the Seat with her had her Gown two Wast-coats and her linnen next her body grievously scorched Another woman running out of the Church had her Cloaths set on fire her body scorched and her flesh torne on her backe in grievous manner One Master Hill a Gentleman had his head smit against the wall and dyed the next day Sir Richard Reinolds Warriner had his head cloven his skull rent in three pieces whereof two fell into the next Seat the other fell in the Seat where he sat his braines fell intire and whole into the next Seat behind him his Blood dasht against the wall some of the skin of his head flesh and haire to the quantitie of an handfull was carried into the Chancell and stucke fast upon one of the Posts betweene the Church and the Chancell his Body was left in the Seat as though he had been alive sitting asleepe and leaning upon his elbow resting on the Deske
that they are Idolaters because they kneele and doe not beleeve the reall presence as they doe Gent. Who was the first that brought in kneeling Min. Pope Honorius about the yeare of our Lord 1220. after that the errour of Transubstantiation was hatcht at the Councell of Lateran Gent. I have read in Gods word that the Apostles did not kneele when Christ himselfe delivered the bread unto them I have read also in the booke of Martyrs that the ancient Councells in the Primitive Church did make Canons against kneeling lest it should prove an occasion of Idolatry ought not wee to conforme our selves to our Saviour Christ and his Apostles and to the Christians of the Primitive Church rather then to the Devils Vicar generall the Pope Min. Yes verily for it is grosse hypocrisie in us to make a shew as though we were more godly and zealous then the Apostles and Christians of the Primitive Church Gent. What other errour doe you finde to be in the Service booke Min. The interrupting of the Minister by the Clarke and the whole Congregation is a foule errour and such an errour and confusion as doth much offend God and that therefore many are unwilling to come into the Church till the Service be all read Gent. How doe they interrupt the Minister Min. By rehearsing his words with a lowd voice and by taking words out of his mouth and by mingling their prayers with his The Minister when he prayeth is the mouth of the people speaking to God for them therefore they ought to be silent till he hath done speaking and then to say Amen 1 Cor. 14.16 and not to interrupt him by rehearsing every word after him as in the Confession of sinne when the Minister saith Almightie and most mercifull Father we have erred and strayed out of thy wayes like lost sheepe and in the Letany when he saith O God the Father of heaven have mercy upon us miserable sinners the Minister must stop and be silent till the Clarke and people have with a lowd voice rehearsed every word after him in which time it is impossible for the Minister to keepe idle and by-thoughts from comming into his minde Also when he prayeth for the King saying Lord save the King they interrupt him by mingling their prayer with his saying And mercifully heare us when we call upon thee The Minister being interrupted and put out in praying for the King doth pray for Ministers saying Indue thy Ministers with righteousnesse they doe then also interrupt him by mingling their prayer with his saying And make thy chosen people joyfull Throughout the whole Letany they do interrupt him by mingling their prayers with his They doe also without any warrant from God but from Pope Hormisda interrupt the Minister when he readeth the Psalmes by taking every other verse out of his mouth to reade it for him with a loud hackering and confused noise especially in Countrey Churches where the people cannot reade well The Minister when he readeth or preacheth Gods word is the mouth of God speaking to the people therefore they ought to be silent and to hearken with reverence When they reade the eighteenth nineteenth and twentieth verses of the fiftie Psalme they are likened by some to women scoulding and accusing one another The Clarke and people doe beginne to scould with and to accuse the Minister saying When thou sawest a theefe thou consentedst unto him and hast been partaker with adulterers then the Priest accuseth the Clarke saying Thou hast let thy tongue speake wickednesse and with thy tongue thou hast set forth deceit then the Clarke and people doe set upon the Minister againe and doe accuse him saying Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother yea thou hast slaundered thine owne Mothers sonne Gent. I remember that in the Churching of women the Minister is called Priest tell me I pray you is that name a fit name for a Minister and Preacher of the Gospell Min. No verily For we reade in Gods Word of no more orders of Priests but of two the order of Aaron and the order of Melchisedech Of the order of Aaron were the Leviticall Priests whose office was to offer Sacrifices which together with the Sacrifices was abolished in Christ his death Of the order of Melchisedech was Christ onely and shall remaine Priest for ever A third order of Priests is to be found no where but in the mass-Masse-booke and in our service-Service-booke The name Priest belongeth to every Christian man and woman as well as to the Minister according as it is written Revel. 1.6 that Christ hath made us Kings and Priests unto God the meaning is that Christ hath made all the Elect men and women Priests to offer the Sacrifices of praise and of thankes unto God Gent. What doe you thinke of the Priest and Clarke when they doe Church a woman Min. I will not tell what I thinke but I will tell you what some doe say Gent. What doe they say Min. They say that the Priest is like a witch Gent. Why doe they say that the Priest is like to a witch Min. Because he doth as a witch doth when she saith the Lords Prayer Gent. What doth a witch when shee saith the Lords Prayer Min. She leaves out these words but deliver us from evill and so doth the Priest when hee doth church a woman Gent. Why will not a Witch say these words Min. Because the devill will not let her till shee hath bewitched so many as he would have her For by the evill that is praid against in that petition is meant the devill and the sinne whereunto he tempteth therefore the devill will not have her to say these words because when shee saith them shee prayeth that God will deliver her from him and the witcherie whereto he tempteth her The Priest doth also skip over the conclusion of the Lords Prayer for thine is the Kingdome power and glory and therein also they say that hee is like to a witch when she doth say her Creede for when she saith the second Article And in Iesus Christ his onely sonne shee skips over these words our Lord and so doth the Priest slip over the conclusion of the Lords Prayer Gent. Saint Luke leaves it out therefore the Priest may leave them out Luke 11.4 Min. It followeth not that therefore the Minister may leave them out for Saint Luke did not write any thing of himselfe but what the holy Ghost would have him to write Gent. Why would not the Holy Ghost have him to write them Min. Because it was sufficient that Saint Matthew had writ them Mat. 6.13 Gent. Some doe thinke because Saint Marke and Saint Iohn doe make no mention of the Lords Prayer that therefore the Minister may omit the reading of it and that because the Evangelists and the Apostles did not use to say it as a prayer therefore none neither Minister nor People ought to use it as a prayer Min. The truth is that our Saviour Christ did
in Baptisme but by hearing the Gospell preached 2 Cor. 3.8 Act. 10.44 To make mention of all the Popish errours that are in other prayers and Collects would be too tedious Gent. What doe they say of the Catechisme in the Service booke Min. They say that it is full of Popish errours as first in the Rubrick before the Catechisme it is written that Children baptized have all things necessary to salvation and are undoubtedly saved The truth is that they have no knowledge of sinne nor of the wrath and curse of God due to sinne nor of Christ nor of the Articles of the Christian faith and therefore have neither faith nor repentance without which none can be saved It is true that Infants borne of the Elect are undoubtedly saved by vertue of Gods everlasting covenant of grace so many as are of the number of the Elect I say so many as are of the number of the Elect because many of the Elect that are now Saints in heaven have brought forth children that are Reprobates and damned soules in hell For Adam had Cain as well as Abel and Abraham had Ishmaell as well as Isaac and Isaac had Esau whom God hated as well as Iacob whom God loved Gent. This errour you say is in the Rubrick what errour is in the Catechisme Min. In the Catechisme it is affirmed that Christ hath redeemed all mankinde The truth is that Christ came into the world not to redeem all mankinde but the Elect onely therefore the Evangelist S. Luke setting forth the genealogie of Christ beginneth from Ioseph and ascendeth to Adam and from Adam doth descend to Sheth who was the first of the Elect that was borne after the death of Abell and maketh no mention of Cain nor of any of his posteritie And S. Matthew beginning from Abraham and from Abraham descendeth to Isaac and from Isaac to Iacob and maketh no mention of Ishmaell nor of Esau nor of any that came of them Also our Saviour Christ saith that he gave his life a ransome for many Mat. 20.28 and that his blood was shed for many Mat. 26.28 He doth not say that his blood was shed for all mankinde but for many that is for the Elect onely who are many though but few in comparison of the multitude that are Reprobates It is also affirmed in the Catechisme that we are made the children of God in Baptisme The truth is that whosoever is not a childe of God before he be baptised shall never be a childe of God because all that are the children of God were before the world was made the children of God by vertue of Gods eternall decree of election It also affirmeth that there are two Sacraments generally as necessary to salvation intimating that the Sacraments are necessary to salvation so as if a child die before he be baptised he shall be damned which is the cause that Midwifes doe take upon them to baptize Intimating also that there are more Sacraments then two therefore it is written in the Rubrick before the Communion that every Parishioner shall communicate thrice in the yeare and also receive the Sacraments meaning the five Popish Sacraments For there are none other It affirmeth also that Godfathers and Godmothers doe promise and vow three things first that the Infant shall forsake the devill and all his works the pompes and vanities of the wicked world and all the sinfull lusts of the flesh secondly that he shall beleeve all the Articles of the Christian faith thirdly that he shall keepe Gods holy will and commandements and walke in the same all the dayes of his life which no man is able to doe of himselfe The truth is that the Godfathers and Godmothers doe neither promise nor vow that the Infant shall doe these things Gent. What then doe they Min. They doe nothing but counterfeit the Infants voice as if he were a conjured Ghost within every one of them speaking and saying that he doth all these things Gent. Are there any other things that doe offend and discourage the people from comming into the Church till service be all read Min. Yes Gent. What are they Min. They are the perverting of the meaning of the holy Ghost in many places of the Psalmes Epistles and Gospels by putting in and leaving out of words and also of the meaning of our Saviour Christ in many places of the Revelation Gent. Wherein is the meaning of the holy Ghost perverted by putting in and leaving out of words Min. In the Psalme 106.30 Phineas prayed are put in for Phineas executed judgement Psal. 105. Not obedient are put in for not disobedient Psal. 125. these words The rod of the ungodly commeth not on the lot of the righteous are put in for resteth not on the lot of the righteous In the Epistle on munday in Easter weeke these words Israel remembred are put in for He that is God remembred To make mention of all the places in the Psalmes Epistles and Gospels would be too tedious Gent. You said that the service Booke doth pervert the meaning of Christ in diverse places of the Revelation I pray you shew me some of those places Min. The fourteenth Chapter is appointed to be read on Childermasse day after the Popish manner for an Epistle of purpose to pervert the meaning of Christ Gent. What was the meaning of Christ in that Chapter Min. The meaning of Christ in that chapter was and now is to shew that in time of greatest persecutions when the heathen persecuting Emperours and after them the Popes did rage most against the Christian Religion and professors thereof Christ had his Church though invisible 144000 preserved by him and kept chaste and undefiled with spirituall fornication of Idolatry Gent. How is the meaning of Christ perverted Min. By misapplying that to children slaine by Herod which was written of Christians persecuted and slaine by the Heathen persecuting Emperours and Popes Gent. Why doth the Pope pervert the meaning of Christ by misse-applying that to the children slaine by Herod which was written of Christ and his Church persecuted by the Heathen Emperours and the Popes Min. The Pope and so many of our Lord Bishops as are Popish doe pervert the meaning of Christ by causing that Chapter to be read on Childermasse day of purpose to keepe weake Christians in blindnesse so as they shall not be able to give an answer to the Papists when they shall ask them where their Religion and Church was an hundred yeares agoe before Martin Luthers time Gent. What other meaning had Christ in that Chapter Min. His meaning was to shew that in his good time he would give a free passage and good successe to the preaching of the Gospell as thankes be to his holy Majestie it hath had in many Kingdomes since Martin Luthers time and shall have every day more and more Gent. I am glad to heare this I pray you goe on to shew where the meaning of Christ is perverted Win. On Michaelmasse