full of Indignation against them c. Another Shooe-maker after he had been a Preacher Thirty Years Prints a Funeral Sermon and there we are told how the Devil winkt with one Eye on the Good Woman O said she That I could but see a Troop of Angels in they came and it was a lovely sight Well we have the Epitaph for her But as to she or any other that shall attend upon his Call shall live and Reign with Christ and that is best of all To She is the Nominative Case to the Verb. On he goes Our Friend Lazarus sleepeth was the Text John 11.11 He begins with the Story of Latimor before K. Edward Beware of Covetousness Named three times Change the Subject What is that beware of Death He chargeth a Neighbour for saying Regeneration was a believing the Gospel so as to obey it If so it will follow says he That every Man hath naturally something of God in him Transubstantiation say I. That it is the Power of Man to turn himself to God Purgatory say I yet such Men have been our Lords and Masters and it was an honour to come into their Pulpits Well another Neighbour of his a Weaver after he was a Preacher perhaps as long hath Written a Book against the Anabaptist proving out of the third of Mat. 5.3 Infant Baptism For he said truly Old Baxters Arguments could not convince him and therefore he would go on a New Bottom In this New excellent piece we are told that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comes from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As if we should say that bene comes from benefacio and a Multitude of such Notions Well John baptis'd Infants All went out Infants the trees When I told him John Preacht to the all and the trees Did he Preach to Infants Yes said he that he did I will believe the Word of God say what you will Did You ever Preach to them said I Whether I did or no said he is not the question but what I should do c. So I left him In that Book in the Preface he brings in this Objection But many Learned Men urge not this Scripture for Infant Baptism He Answers either those Learned Men are alive or dead If alive let them plead for themselves If dead they are either in Heaven or in Hell If in Heaven they are of my Opinion now If in Hell I care not what their Opinion is for all their Learning c. What shall we think of such Fellows who spoil a good Cause I remember when a Boy I heard one Trade so an Expound Countenance for Continuance which marr'd the sense I wonder said Dr. Featly long since That our Pillars and Posts did not swet in which was On such a Day such a Taylor Preacht and such a Waterman Expounded Weâ—l perhaps by this time some High Church-men will cry out You see what is the Fruit of your Liberty Pray my Masters Consider not only how Arminians swarm among you but Socinians and Deist Who of ours turn Socinians The last time save one I heard a Sermon in a Publick Church I heard one Condemn three good sound Articles of yours Soon after I wrote a Latin Letter to prove by the Canons of your Church he ought to be Excommunicated for that sermon Dr. Crisp Mr. Toun c. Were yours not ours One came to Wells to be ordain'd the Examiner put him this sentence Apostoli Loquebantur Magnalia Dei He began Apostoli O ye Apostles Loquebantur look about you a Great Man sitting by said Magnalia Manfully spoken Dei I would not be mistaken I believe the Church of England had never so many Learned Men in it as of late Years And therefore I ever thought it an unworthy disingenious thing in the Author of the Contempt of the Clergy written about Twenty Seven Year since to run back Fifty or an Hundred Year before to find dirt to throw in his Mothes Face His Stories of Poverty and Ignorance are not sufficiently qualified Neither would I be thought to Condemn them who take wise private Men and make them Preachers I am of Bishop Crofts Opinion Naked Truth Many such may be useful I plead for wise Men whether Schollars or No. But if this Book fall into the hands of any Papist He may say You see what you are come to since you left us Fiat Lux Written in the Year Sixty on the Return of King Charles hath sought to improve these things against us more then any of that Tribe I ever read Is it not a Sceptical Atheistical Book at the Bottom like sure Footing in Christianity He always distinguisheth the Protestant and Presbyterian and yet says our Reformers Luther Calvin and the rest disown'd Episcopacy but Queen Elizabeth saw a necessity to reassume it A Brave Historian Not to say much of your Disputes when Dominicans and Franciscans burnt one another Jamenuists are accounted Hereticks and been destroyed as such A Million of Men in Italy have lately run after Molinus that Half Quaker And now a Sect of Pietist swarm in Germany What Wars are between you and the Greek Churches What Notions of ours are so Monstrous as Transubstantiation Pardon me I call that Doctrine Monstrous for let me ask you 1. Did Christ take and eat his own Body It was well said of him in the Oxford Disputation it is time ill spent to dispute with them that can swallow such Contradictions This is like the Spanish Story of the Servant that when his Head was cut off took him up in his Teeth and buried it 2. Did the Ancient Christians who burnt the Bread left after Consecration think they burnt Christs Body 3. Did ever the Heathen Julian in his Epistles or any other twit the Christians with making a God of a Wafer and Eating him when all was done Sure No then no such thing was then talkt of and if not then it is too late to tell us so now For taking away the Cup and Mutilating the Sacrament if Transubstantiation were true yet your Story of the Blood being by Concomitancy in the Body is not sufficient will not do For in the Sacrament we commemorate Christ not living but dying his Blood not running in his Reins but separate from them This Cup is my Blood shed this consideration made most of the Trent Conventicle Pardon the Expression for so Durankin hath largely proved it to be tho he dyed in your Communion almost Mad when urg'd by a Friar They flung their Seats c. Father Pauls Hist Can the same Body and Blood move and not move be eaten and not eaten at the same time I cannot Condemn Mr. Johnson and others that say These be Contradictions and Contradictoria non cadunt sub divina potentia Tho I would take heed how I express my self hear Remembring what a Heathen Cicero said in one of his Orations Pauca timide de Deo Loquimur Ye are the Body of Christ faith Paul In my apprehension you may
many others against kneeling I affirm your Mr. Long of Exon in his first Book against Mr. Baxter written about 16 Years since says more than them all by affirming that kneeling and taking up the Old Form of Words The Body of our Lord Jesus Christ Preserve thy Body and Soul not used in King Edwards days was to favour them that owned the Real Presence and to quiet them that believe Transubstantiation Oh horrible Who shall countenance such Idolaters as these which your Church calls so Who in this Adoration are as very Idolaters as the Laplanders who Worship a Red Cloth Here Sir I beg your Pardon I am gon I confess too far into this particular but more of this hereafter if occasion be It was denyed at the Savoy Conference between the Episcopalians and Presbyterians that Ministers had liberty in their Pulpits to use their Gifts in Prayer And the design of Laud before and many others since was we are sure by the Liturgy to hinder Ministerial Gifts this way It is well Experience is thought by you worthy of consideration in this place I pray Sir when saw you any one Person Minister or Hearer shed one Tear or Sigh at the Common-Prayer No. The Liturgy as well as another thing doth not bite I remember not in Plymouth Oxon or elsewhere I saw one No where this comes there is no Bochim I speak not of your Alms-House-People or such who know not a Prayer from a Chapter nor of one or two Ministers or great Men who may be said thus to have done tho I know none One would think some Men should not talk of Schism thus without end Have you such plain positive word for or against some sort of Conventicles or some Publick Worship If your vain Repetitions may be justified by the 136 Psalm remember then may the Tautologies of some Dissenters you so much talk of be justified the same way which I will not grant you have my suffrage in blaming them I know few such Thus the Quakers also who shall plead 136 Psalm as well as you for their vain Repetitions In extraordinary Cases such Modes of Praying or Praising may be justified that cannot be brought into common Practise â—esides what words God puts into our Mouths must not be questioned Because Scripture says and you read openly He that pisseth against the wall may you therefore say in your Service-book any thing of S against the wall Feasts and Fasts are things required by the Law of Nature antecedent to Scripture Revelation Heathens used them Who in this Controversie called these Symbolical till a late intolerable Scribler None questioneth but the Magistrate had power to appoint the 5th of November upon reasons from Scripture tho I think your Instance proves it not That they did it of themselves without direction from God in the Feast of Purim Christ being present at the Feast of Dedication where he at first refused to go to Preach to the People no more proves his owning that Imposition than a Nonconformist Preaching on Christmas-day to keep Men from Debauchery or cautioning them against it will prove his owning the Observation of that Day or Christ's being then Born which your Joseph Mead learnedly proves was not that Day nor at that time of the Year You your selves I doubt not would take occasion to Preach on such a day which you approve not of Here they were gathered to whom Christ was sent yet I take this Instance to be nothing to our purpose Who censures your Church for observing the 30th of January as a day of Fasting or the 29th of May as a day of Thanksgiving Yet that lies fair for an Objection of weight Where do we read of Anniversary Fasts of Divine Appointment A Fast seems to be appointed pro te Nata Whether all that is said by some of the Jews Baptising of Prosylites be true I will not say if true I have ever been of Opinion they sinn'd and it was an Abomination They were forbid to add as well as diminish Good Sir speak plainly might they have appointed Circumcision if God had not done it That Christ appointed Baptism from this Practise of theirs sounds hard with me and can no more be prov'd than that Christ appointed Bread and Wine in the Lord's Supper from the Corybantes or such as they What I said before I stick to we can no more know the mind of God by Old Jewish Customs than now by Popish ones To say you make not the Cross Essential to Baptism is to confess or say that you not Christ appointed that additional Sign we know your Consciences tell you the Ancients Baptized without it I think it not proper to direct to Books or send any else I might Parkers Learned Folio against that worst of Ceremonies Custom cannot make your Phantastical Dresses decent else the Popish Trinklets are as justifiable as yours They might plead it is the Custom of their Country that is decent in one place that is not in another c. But I say Pauls indecency could be decency no where for this was your bottom what was done without his decency and order was every where and at all times ordinarily indecent and disorderly I have proved sufficiently your Surplice c. not so It is not hard to call that phantastical foolish or vain now that the wise God once for great reasons appointed Would not such a Dress as Aarons now be odious a Bell c. Then there can be no phantastical Worship in the World What a ridiculous thing had Circumcision been had not the Institution had a Divine Stamp upon it Kings will not have Subjects Images on their Coin but their own small pieces as well as great I should not have believ'd the clos'd to be yours were I not sure it was your own Hand Vestments are necessary in Genere therefore a Surplice in Specie may be used say you My Argument was that Sacred Vestments are not necessary in Genere all such were Nailed at Christ's Cross therefore are not to be determin'd in Specie Your Surplice is no civil Dress else your Argument was irrifragable no it is a Sacrum pallium It is accounted a piece of Prophanness to use it Extra â—acra It is handled with Reverence Why they call it Super-pellicium I have spent time to consider is it from Pellex God keep us from tearing Christ's body in pieces say you Turpe est Doctori and from tearing the Body Politick too say I. Your Paper and mine call for a Close so do my Circumstances Young Men are waiting my motions whilst now with me in the Room I writing this Reply Currente Calamo I think it not convenient yet to offer my greatest Arguments against some things till I see further Necessity I now urge no places of Scripture for my Opinions this may be done in time only answer yours If I have given any unpleasing words be pleas'd to be so kind to look on them as non Scripta I thank
which all things equally true are not tho' the Authority of the Revealer be the same Broken places of Scripture are us'd by these Men with as much Fraud as by the Devil 4 Mat. 4.6 on Christ yet by the same Weapon of Scripture rightly used Christ returned on him wounded him and overcame him One was thoughtful to Print some of Mr. Davis his Golden Sayings such Men will be talking of Men of Men of Parts Was it not a lovely thing to see our Linen Draper in his Experiences and Confessions of Faith to call Mr. Williams a Block-head in terminis terminantibus which none of his learned Adversaries that know him will say When we hear their Blasphemy we may cry Hear O Heavens and be astonished O Earth blush at such things as these to see those that neither fear God nor reverence Man Be you Sirs as great Advocates for Christ and Holiness as they for Satan and Sin and perswade your Hearers timely and well to catechise their Children that they may escape these Birds of Prey We see how many as a flock of Sheep run over Hedges or down in the Sea one after another It is dangerous to use hard Phrases which is the putting the Sword in the Hand of Mad-men to destroy others and themselves with We are told they Preach well so they may when they Preach other Mens Works but many when their own make woful work A Man may Preach nothing in a Sermon but what is true and yet none of it true if it be not true Hinc if not from bence it foilows it is all false Such was the Preaching of our profound Doctor if I may so prophane the word Preaching to call a Mess of Nonsence by this Name Now in abundance of places we hear the croaking of these Frogs I know you and some other Calvinists Mr. Veil Mr Glascock c. are here in the City like speckled Bieds but may they keep up their Courage notwithstanidng If it please them to appear I suppose some of us would as soon venture the Cause in their Hands as in the Hands of any Men whatever Tho' some first Independents alowed the occasional Preaching of their Lay-Elders an intolerable Practice yet Dr. Owen did not and Mr. Cotten in his Keys censures it for which indeed Philip Nye in his Preface censures him If some enquire how I came to have so much respect for you above some others whose Heads and mine better agree about Discipline I will tell you When I was a Member of the University I frequented Meetings and there only received the Lord's Supper I finding no Presbyterian Congregation there I desired good old Dr. Rogers to let me sit down occasionally with them without any Tye which he did This Man was a very holy good Man tho when a young Man very prophane for which he was called Mad Kit of Lincoln but on a sudden strook to the Heart He was a grave Man and wore his Beard long for which he was often called when Principal of New-Inn-Hall Old Aaron Among other great Things I have heard of him these were some That he a rich Batchelor married Mrs. Garburn a Widow with Children and in Debt and took care of them all Her Vertues were her Dowry for she was one of the wisest and most devout Women upon Earth She educated many Gentle women taught them an excellent Catechism which she made and a Confession of Faith of her own composing Another thing was That being often in the Company of a good Man Capt. D. he found him always sad and pensive enquiring into the Cause he was told he owed above a Hondred Pounds which he could not pay The good kind compassionate Doctor paid the Money and takes up the Bond without saying anv thing to the Man Then comes to visit him and asked him Why are you not pleasant as you were want to be He would not tell then the Doctor delivered to him the Bond Will the sight of this make you pleasant He would often say to his good second self We have much Money in such a Bag such and such poor People want some of it Give me such an active Man I have often wondred that having so many ordinary Lives Printed the Lives of this Couple were not so But I am now on sudden told some Wits in the City design a Lampoon upon me if I thus proceed to which I Answer 1. What! What! And he Advocate for our ignorant Linnen-Draper I doubt I shall soon prove them Witt Would bee as this Jack a Crispian Would-bee for he understands no Mans Principles 2. There is sent me by an unknown hand already an Ingenious Lampoon upon our Linnen-Draper which some that know him say is an Exact Description of his Birth Parents manner of Life such as I have seldom heard of For my part I abhor all things of that Nature and was about to send it to him with this Declaration That I would not use much less Print any such Paper This way of Answering betrays any Cause whatever 3. That two Lampoons are Printed against me already to which I have given a Sober Reply Let this be Answer'd before a New one be made For my part I keep both their Papers by me in the Window to look on when dull and melancholy to revive me Indeed Gentlemen Print such Lampoons every week I care not I am so Zealous for the King and so Compassionate on Poor Tradesmen That if you please to further the Custom of the King for Paper or help Printers and Stationers and Booksellers you may I think all Men now conclude that read my Defence That never were more Impudent Lyes told by any Man then by B. C. and W. C. Men that are ashamed to own their Books tho I not mine I wonder how they dare to be seen among them that know what they have done Not one Man comes to me for the proavis'd five Pound tho a half Year be past For my part I am much of Luthers Mind and Spirit When he was told that his Books were burnt at Rome If they said he burn my Books I will burn theirs I may say to many I had almost said to most in this City what Paul did to the Corinthians You suffer Fools gladly seeing your selves are wise This I will be bold to say I met with as wise Men in the Cuuntrey in Bristol in Plymouth and elsewhere as here Some here are very angry for my saying so and boast what they have read and seen that to my certain knowledge cannot talk common sense nor I think turn one Octonary in the 119 Psalm into not only Greek but true Latin Some in the Countrey had need to send them Books as much as they these I confess I was no Match for some I once Conversed with but for many Hectoring Persons here Is it not a shame for some to say It is an Honour for their Countrey Brethren to come into their Pulpits c When Perhaps
some of them think it a disgrace to come after Weavers Taylors who made the Pulpits stink of them long agoe It is easy for Men to write Polemical or Practical Books and run to this Author and that Author and make Collections here and there Then take down Pool then some Critick Leigh or any other then Books of the Subjects they Write about When one would think for Men of reading sense and years Their Heads should be their Libraries c. But I must not approaching too near any thing that looks like boasting lest my Friends in the Countrey should think I have been so long in London that I am trouble with the London disease Where Men are charged high 〈◊〉 what is said openly by almost all Eaquire all is denied For lying it is worse then bad The private hearers here are no more judicious then in obscure Corners abroad Every Quack in Physick or Divinity or other thing if he runs to London finâ— it as fit a Receptacle for him as any place whatever To see some Mâ—â— have some of the greatest Congregations in the City whom all know are fit to be sent to School yet these be Censurers of their Brethren and Talkers forsooth of able Men and rousing Men What I pray is that Men of good Lungs that make disfigur'd faces and speak to God as if talking with their Fellows c. To the great grief of the Learned Men that hear them or converse with them And yet these shall Condemn Tradesmen Preaching too I am also told by this work I shall lose many Fâ—iends in the City I Answer It is a great Question whether I have many Friends here to lose I have had many in the place from whence I came and may again have more elsewhere I value Friends Non numero sed pondere My few here may be better then some Mens Many One old true Protestant is worth Ten Innovators Some object They like not this way of writing all should be considered by Arguments from Scripture I answer 1. You like not this way nor the other neither when against your darling corrupt Notions 2. Many wise Men like this way well if you do not an historical Account of Men and their Notions is used by all Is Mr. Lob's Book to be dispised about the jugling Tricks of Arminians and Socinians because he confutes not by Scripture their Doctrine he mentions 3. Must Men run all the same way This is done so well already that much acnnot be added done by a curious Hand 4. Yet I have insistâ—â— upon the chief things from Scripture Look again Many Books said to be New Books have little new but the Title old stale Arguments are mentioned without end I shall not trouble you with an Account what clapt a Supersedeous upon my not appearing sooner only acquaint you that this was ready for the Press almost three Months past For the Controversy now on foot so far as it relates to Matters of Fact I make my self no Judge I have proposed a fair way as the Digladiators both own to bring the Matter to a fair Issue To appoint a convenient Time and Place to debate these Matters agreeing upon Articles before hand to manage all That a Moderator be chosen who shall have Power to appoint to both their time of speaking and to silence hard Words so may we know these Matters of Fact asserted by some denied by others Now we must only enquire when the last Paper will be answered and so might this Controversy take no more Air. One replied This might have been done but that the first Aggressor appearing in Print must be so met with which is true for once But is the Advice now too late I beseech them to think of it I Pray my Reader to consider if there were so many Flaws in that one and but one Sermon I heard from the Reverend Linen-Draper how reasonable it is to think many more are in other wild Discourses of his where he makes not so great a Preparation expecting not such an Auditory yet see the Misery of uncatechised Heads This was applauded by the rude illiterate Mob some of which have the Impudence to ask us What think you we cannot judge of a Minister and his Ability No no more then of a Physician or a Lawyer Such may be a Quack an Emperick as far as you or I know We therefore choose such as are approved of by Men of the same Employ so should we by Ministers of known worth If you must choose your Pastor I hope you must not ordain him they that do it must look well to it That they lay Hands suddenly an no Man and therefore they are judge of their Abilities not you to say We have chosen him and will have him I once lived with a conceited Country Farmer who would tell me If he were in my place he would make the People quale and that he knew one who broke a piece of the Board on which he leaned in his Pulpit O Sirs What do you mean I would often tell him that was a Preacher for him but a Stage-player for me In a place where once I lived was a Man much followed he could Expound the hardest places of Scripture on a suddain One put him that place The Children of Israel shall be many days without a King and without a Priest and without an Ephod and without a Terephim He began without Civil or Ecclesiastical Government as for Ephods and Teraphims Weight and Measures I shall not say much of them He once as is said patching up a Sermon out of Dr. Featly and Dr. Dun their Works one being asked how he liked it said It was featly done A preaching Mealman once told me You must have Ten Shillings a Day when we sometimes have but Twelve Pence To whom I replied This is just as if a Quack in Physick should thus discourse with a Physician And said I Old H. How could'st thou in conscience take the Shilling you should have returned two Groats again Bless me thought I when I heard our Reverend Linen-Draper If this be Gospel I never heard the Gospel preached till now and hope I never shall hear such Gospel more If any ask Why confute I not more what he said because not worth it Must I prove Christ to be a Law-giver c. Or prove Christ gave Commands c. He and Elijah the Barber-Prophet desire it that they may be taken notice of These cry Peace Peace where there is no Peace and sew Cushions under Mens Elbows If Dr. Crisp had been by David he would have informed him better and we had had wonderful Psalms no doubt for David was not well acquainted with the Covenant of Grace c. Luther Thunders against the Antinomians so called in his days in his Table-Talk and yet some have the confidence to tell us Luther was one himself The Man of Sin is call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without Law a Downright Antinomian Jude describes
great changes in God's House not as a King but as a Man of God and all was done by the Commandment of the Lord to him and Nathan the Prophet 1 Chron. 28.19 David had all in Hand-writing 2 Chron. 35.3 Doth not the Lot signify the Divine Appointment as in choosing Matthias in the room of Judas 2 Chr. 29.35 Could David as a King injoyn Posterity But these things have been well replied to by others but by none better if so well as by the ingenious Mr. Alsop in his Melius Inquirendum Bring forth you that talk of Wits many of yours in one Scale we will put this Man in another I vindicate his Arguments not every Mode of Expression If other Writers will not set forth your Church in its Colours I hope Mr. Long of Exon hath lately done it or else I think it will never be done For his Divinity he hath declared plainly That Kneeling in the receiving the Lord's Supper after it was laid aside in King Edward's Days was taken up in Queen Elizabeth's to satisfie the Papists who might come to Church and receive owning the real Presence For his Politicks He hathlately replied to the Life of Mr. Baxter but in that Reply hath deceived the World of their Money and Time by printing about as I remember an Hundred and fifty Pages verbatim out of his other Book against him printed about 16 or 17 Years since What ails the Gentleman Was he troubled with the Hickocks I had replied to it had I not appeared against the Book as well as he tho' on different Accounts Some great Men have said That Mr. B's Book hath done them that is the King's Party more Mischief then any Book printed for Twenty Years past and that it is pity but it were burnt by the Hand of the Common Hangman If it were say I it is pity it should go there alone Mr. Long his Book would be a very good Companion for it For 1. He unsaints Mr. Baxter for a Rebel no Rebel he says can be one What Man What then becomes of the Tribe of Levi now By what Names or Titles soever they be now dignified or distinguished who with the Gentry of the Nation invited over our King and took up Arms against King James Thus I affirm is the King wounded by our Levites who have sworn to him kept Thanksgiving Days for their Deliverance by him His Son indeed is a Non-Juror The honester Man he if he be of such corrupt Principles 2. What may not a Penitent Rebel be saved These Men Corrupted Mr. Baxter and made him turn at last a Non Resister of which he hath to his shame and the shame of his Friends often declar'd and yet no Saint He shamefully denys the Story of the Earl of Antrim which Mr. Baxter as well as others hath sufficiently prov'd May not the Epitaph He hath like a poor empty Man Printed in two Books serve some of the most Reverend Fathers How common was it when the Prince of Orange was expected daily to go to Church in some places twice a day And Pray for King James Grant him in Health and Wealth long to live strengthen him that he may vanquish and overcome all his Enemies And then come out I Pray Is there any hope the Prince will Land we are all undone if he do not And yet to the same Prayers in the Afternoon This Gentleman turns the wrong end of the Perspective when he would ken Rebels that are not Saints I would not be mistaken I know there are a few good excellet unanswerable Passages in the Book as How Oliver Cromwel's Virtues were such that it was wisht Richard might be Heir of them c. Pol. Aphor. And yet both talkt of so odly in the Relique it was a pittiful poor Plea to Mr. Bagslau I think not the worse of Christ Heaven c. Because Oliver own'd it But I have almost forgotten my self This is not my work now For my thus plain dealing in a Letter to the afore named Gentleman I am informed he threatneth to do me what mischief he can to whom I replyed I would take the first oppertunity I could to do him any kindness I could For of all Men I was more obliged to him for my Convictions about Kneeling in the receiving the Sacrament more then to Rutherfords Gelapse or Ames himself Whatever I have said of Mr. Baxter I declare I mean no more then what B Saunderson said at the Savoy He was an illogical Piece yet as one told me who liv'd with him He said He was the best Logician in the World that got all out of his own Head Mr. Baxter tells us in his Life that he early and without having a Tutor one Month all his Days studied Aquinas Occam Scotus and Durand which was able to make Giddy the strongest Head in the World that is to say his own This infected him with a wrangling way of disputing of which he sometimes was so sensible that he caution'd some Candidates for the Ministry against it This also made him sometimes to blunder as when he saith Justification was a transient Act c. In his last Book against Grisp It is the last Plea of some Conformist Obj. But Nonconformist Ministers take the bread out of our Mouths and our People from us You took the bread first out of their Mouths and their People from them when King Saul took Davids Wife from him and gave her to Phaltiel David takes her from him by the first opportunity Let him come weeping behind David cares not for that takes his own Yet I confess it is pity they should take the bread out of your Mouths tho no doubt it could be wisht they could sometimes take the Cup from some of your Mouths And I tell you plainly The Dissenters are but half Beneficed Men generally and the People allow them a poor Maintenance to their reproach and shame be it spoken If they give Forty Shilling a Year they think it much that can give a Thousand Poundsor some Hundreds with a Child I cannot easily think they Love the message much that care so little for the Messenger Yet in many places they were first ours with their Consent and yours without their Consent I now think it convenient having Apologiz'd for many Congregational Men so now for some Anabaptist against the Charge of Antinomianism Countenancing Tradesâ—â—ns Preaching c. That there are Learned Anabaptists in the City and Reverend Divines cannot be denied Mr. Steed Seven Year as I remember an Oxonian Mr. Collins Mr. Harrison and others who are Masters of their work Some that are no Schollars are yet studious Men Preach and Discourse well and such Conformists and Presbyterians themselves sometimes admit tho I think it should be done very sparingly Let such Preach the Gospel who can defend it against Papists Socinians Deist and others I remember He that wrote a Book call'd The Present State of Holland commends the Anabaptist there for their peaceable
these had been a duty now and those then a Divine Stamp made those once and these now necessary which you say a Human command doth as you tell us I think you wrong the Church of Rome if you say That she maketh sprinkling with Holy-Water c. in your sense a part of Gods Worship and of Oral Tradition from Christ or the Apostles Neither doth it appear the Pharisees thought washing of Hands when they came from Market and other Ceremonius parts of Moses's Law conveyed by Oral Traditson prove it if you can Did Christ indeed confirm Ceremonies prefer'd to Gods Law These things ought ye to have done what things washing of Hands c. No in vain do ye worship me In Tything Mint we deny not the Magistrates power in Tything Ministers maintenance is a civil thing observe a great contradicton of yours now Mans Law said to be Gods Law Christ respected them Whereas you tell me so often of Schism I have desired you to tell me what Church it is I am a Schismatick from Is it the Rebellious Perjured King Dethroning Church of England as some call her Or the seditious Conventicles of Popishly affected Jacobites that others talk of till then I am not bound to say more of Schism I thought according to some nothing could warrant taking up Arms against a King and then according to you nothing could warrant a Separation which you always call Schism from a Church There is no cause for Schism in the Church say you that is not as sufficient for Rebellion in the State Is not your Church then think you a Schismatical Church from the Mother Church of Rome That the Church Wardens Oath is injoyned as you say by Law is denied The Bishop of Bristol 20 Years since was cast here Carleton The refusers of that Oath have been Excommunicated and required to get others to serve in their place which is unlawful for Reasons given in my last to you 5 Gal. 1. I will not say your Answer or Argument was anticipated before you wrote it lest It should displease sure you cannot think I thought when Paul says Be ye not the Servants of Men Men should not serve their Masters You tell me not what is your sound Sense of the words nor the Reasons why you take not my Sense to be so God left men 14 Rom. to their liberty and no man can deny it them The Magistrate is forbidden imposing unnecessary things on the weak Receive ye him saith Paul Reject him saith your Church 7 ver No man liveth to himself 10 Who art thou that settest at naught thy brother 22. Hast thou faith have it to thy self before God Chap. We that are strong ought to bear with the infirmities of the weak Yes say some if the Magistrate doth nor forbid it O Paul or rather O Jesus thou shall be Obeyed unless our Church commands us otherwise VVho regards these Precepts yet they scrupled things lawful we unlawful 5 Col. 14.10 11 12 16. Read and you will read your fallacy A bene conjunctis mala diviso Mens Sins and old Ceremonies were both nail'd to Christ's Cross Did I make every thing I wrote of a sufficient cause for Schism especially simply by it self that this is so often all the answer I can get This is no cause for Schism Are they all Non-conformists as you say That examine not Communicants Then I think they are all Non-Conformists now from the greatest to the least VVell I see the Noncons have gotten company more than a good many by what names or titles soever they are dignified or distinguisht whether the most Reverend the Arch Bishops the right Reverend the Bishops or all inferior Priests and D s. I am glad you profess your self to be no Arminian and grant such Subscribers to the 39 Articles and Book of Homilies Noncons and I say perfidious ones you ask me where heard I I answer The last Sermon I ever heard in the Church of England save one about 2 years since Three-Articles were Preacht against by no mean Man and I would prove upon him what you say that he was a Non-conformist and ought to be Excommunicated for that Sermon VVhat I wrote against Private Baptism confirms not the charge because I told you the practise of other Noncons contrary to mine and I doubt not many Church Men are of my mind in this thing not yours Because I only object where such a Baptism may hasten a childs death And can you or will you say otherwise You say the same of Jewish Baptisms which you long since did and take no notice of my reply therefore I am not bound to take notice any more of that Subject For Kissing and Feasting I take them not as Religious Acts if you do prove them so only all things we do must tend to the Glory of God in eating and drinking and whatever we do I remember not that in my Last I wrote any thing of Musick if I did then what you say of it was pertinent to the occasion In short I think the Old Church of England is gone out of sight for Doctrine Discipline and Manners You know it was a great Question in the Schools at Athens whether when all the Old Planks were gone out of Theseus his Ship one gone after another it might still be said here is Theseus his Ship I know not how far they were agreed If it please you to give me your Opinion about this we may be the sooner agreed here This present Church which some Jacobites call a Schismatical Church her Priests Jeroboams Priests such as are not to be Communicated with at the Lords Table hath been a Factor for Rome is full of Perjuries Perfidious Baptisms broken Prayers Foolish sinful Ceremonies she is bloody in her Principles and once practice too and therefore I think separation from her is no Schism but a Duty To the Baxterians Brethren WHether you have not very much contributed to the growth of Crispianism is humbly offered to your consideration as they by their foolish unsound Oppositions of you have added to your number As not one false Charge no nor mistake was ever proved on me in my Vindiciae so I hope will no such thing or can no such thing be proved on me in this Book I once so valued your Master that I had his Picture in my Bed-Chamber and for a considerable time after I awoke in the Morning lookt on it with delight I never doubted then nor since but that he deserved the name of a great Man tho think he knew too many things to know any thing well or as other greater Men then be aid He had I think been a wiser Man had he not had so much Wiâ— I am glad that notwithstanding your Masters Doctrin of Non Resistance nothing is farther from Jacobitism than you and that His Most Sacred Majesty hath not more Loyal Subjects in the three Kingdoms then you are and that your Meetings are valued by you
charged George Fox among other things with this Story That he saw the Blood of Martyrs in the Streets of Litchfield and waded thro their Blood William Pen for declaring as sure as the Lord liveth Thomas Hicks should not go to the Grave in Peace c. Solomon Eccles with Prophesying in the name of the Lord to John Story That he should dye that â—ear because he had set himself against George Fox the Apostle of Jesus Christ c. who lived above four Years after I shall now acquaint you with Objections I have met with from sober Quakers and others and it being so late I hope not to detain you half an Hour 1 Objection Many things they Prophesyed of did come to pass I answer It is enough That many things also did not What if I should now declare in the name of the Lord That Man shall Dye this Year and that man also What if one of them dye will that prove me a true Prophet No the continued Life of the other will prove me a false one What 〈◊〉 I should say Thus saith the Lord To morrow there shall be Rain but the next day none If their be Rain to morrow I am no true Prophet if it Rain also the Day after Many things Muggleton said came to pass but all what the Prophets of the Lord said did so 2 Object Did not the Prophet prophecy falsely when he brought back the other Prophet to Eat and Drink at his own House in the Reign of Jeroboam No Man doubts but a Prophet of the Lord â—â—ay sin and fall before a Temptation as well as other men but he recalled his false Prophecy c. Yet what he was and how far a Prophet dwelling in that Idolatrous place I shall not determine 3 Object George Fox meant he saw Bâ—â—od Visionary and when Edward Burroughs said God could soon Arm thousands of his Saints to destroy the Wicked but for the present it must not 〈◊〉 c. he is to be understood Spiritually and that Friends were to blame in Printing it as they did Then it follows George Fox in the writing that Book and Mr. Pen in the Publishing this stor there did not intend it should be understood Visionary neither saâ— I will the words bear it He put of his Shoes he run thro the Streets of Litchfield and cryed Wo to the looâ—ly City c. These things were not Visionary Hundreds saw him neither therefore could his wading thro their Blood to the warming of his Feet be so Were not the Saints to have their spiritual Arms on for the present according to E. B. 4. Object If all this be true G. Fox W. Pen and others were Deceivers What is this to the Principle their Opinions may be right 1. This will go far 2. Whoever goes over to them must pretend to be Inspired and Infallible How can they then joyn with them proved to be Imposters and false Prophets These Men surely will play their Infallibilitys and Inspirations lustily one upon another 3. These Men have been even Adored by the Spirit of Discerning too Glory be to thee Let me feel thy Vertue 4. Their Letters have been the Quakers Directories their Dictates the Quakers Oracles 5. Spiritual Courts were set up by these Men from the Lord. 6. Can any of them say they were convinced Baptism and the Supper were nothing An Oath was unlawful by their Inward Light and not by Fox their Outward Light Before Igo any further I must remove a Difficulty that lies in my way Croese a Dutch Divine hath written a large Book of five Shillings price called The History of the Quakers much in favour of them But I do declare it is a 〈◊〉 false History but to do him right he confesseth he haed his Accounts from the Quakers Writings sent to him Therefore be was so credulous he tells us of G. Fox 's Fasting ten Days c. It is well known in Amsterdam long since a Woman pretended she should fast longer than Christ fifty Daâ—s a great Concourse all wonder at this Miracle the Lords at last caused the place to be narrowly searcht and under the Chair was a Trap Door where was all Necessaries for Life They Strangled her and as I hear her Statue was made in Wax in the same Chair representing the Cheat yet to be seen in the same Cloaths I doubt not if G. Fox kept a ten Days Fast it was such a Fast as the Amsterdam Gentlewomans Croese also tells us whâ—â—â— Barbarities were used to the Quakers not fit to be named in Bristol in the last Persecution in their Meetings which I then a Bristol Man never heard one word of and how the Quakers persevered to the last when I aâ—rm for years they left their Publick Meeting place as one Man This false Historian tells us That in New-England The Quakers were so cruelly whipt that many Swooned in the Streets to see it and that the Whip was such That the Executioner was forced to put both Hands to hold it I doubt not but Friends are made to believe that the whipping of Dr. Oats was not worse or as bad as theirs He says little of these Mens Blasphemies about Scripture and the man Christ Jesus c. It is well known the last time I thus appeared in this place a Quakor to divert me from my Charge against Pen and other Impostors and false Prophets said Did not the Presbyterians Persecute in New-England What sayst thou G. Keith dost thou not know it But might not I have return'd did not the Quakers Persecute in Pensilvania What say you M. Keith Do you nor know it Yes surely he knew it too well and felt it to purpose for they so Persecuted him that had not the King sent a new Governour there when Mr. Pen absconded as a Jacobâ—â—e we had not had him now with us but the Quakers in his Grave long since Ye this Croese is forced to acknowledge against them among other things there That George Fox put his name to a Book sent to John the III. King of Poland for Toleration full of excellent Latin Greek and French Sentences out of Learned Writer s as if he had been acquainted with those Authors This Book was so curious it was Translated into many Languages and call'd Fox's Book When it is notorious he never well understood his Mother Tongue Croese crys out against this pride of Fox Ahorrible Cheat say I. I my self Sirs have long since read Histories bearing Fox's name which I and others then thought to be his but he sent as I am well informed to the two Lyd 's in Wales and other Schollars to make such Books and he would put his Name to them He also says That the Story of one Brown that Fox say s had Visions and Revelations concerning him what he should do Was only the Man's Opinion about him when Dying And that it was Customary with Fox to write down such Stories as Prophesies from the Lord c. That