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A14657 The svmme of a dispvtation betweene Mr. VValker, pastor of St. Iohn Euanglists [sic] in Watling-street London, and a popish priest calling himselfe Mr. Smith, but indeed Norrice assisted by other priests and papists : held in the presence of some worthy knights, with other gentlemen of both religions. Walker, George, 1581?-1651.; S. N. (Sylvester Norris), 1572-1630. 1624 (1624) STC 24960.5; ESTC S2955 22,486 46

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such pricks in the Scripture how many verses words yet letters were in the Law and which was the middle verse word and letter so that by their Massorah if it hab beene kept perfect a man might finde out if there were but one word letter or prick altered or taken away out of all the old Testament All the differences which were found between the Bibles of the Easterne and Westerne Iewes are recorded and kept to this day the one set down vnder the names of the Sonnes of Ashur the other vnder the names of the Sonnes of Nephtali and they are such as do not alter the sense at all as may bee seene in all our great Rabbinicall Bibles The end therefore of the Massarites meeting and of their worke was not to inuent vowels and prickes but onely to note how they did finde the Scriptures pricked and vowelled from the daies of old and to set downe rules from the knowledge thereof and for the preseruing them without alteration or corruption to all posterities Thus much I haue learned out of the Rabbins though my skill bee but small in their Language and though I haue had no time to spend in the study of them but such as I haue stollen from my other necessary studies of Diuinity which properly concerne my Calling And if you know not this to be true I am sure you are but a weak Hebrutian and slenderly read in Hebrew Rabbins Mr. Smith All the Rabbins are of opinion that the pricks of the Bible were inuented by the Massarites and vndoubtedly that opinion is the truth Mr. Walker I pray you name one Rabbin of note who is of that opinion and I will name you ten of the contrary I haue ten or twelue of the best Rabbin Comentaries vpon the Law of Moses which I will shew to you and if you can finde any of them to be of that opinion I will yeeld vnto you in this point Nay more then that I will shew out of the Scriptures written by Moses that the originall Scriptures of Moses his Law which were kept in the Tabernacle by the Priests were written not single without pricks as common coppies were but double both with letters and pricks so that none could doubt of the right reading of them Mr. Smith It is easily said but impossible to be proued if you can shew me any such thing out of the Scriptures you shall do more then any euer yet could doe Mr. Walker Looke Deut. 17. 18. and there it is plainly testified that there was a booke of the Law appointed to be kept before the Priests Leuites in the Sanctuary out of which the King was commanded to write him a double written Copie of the Law that is a copie written both with letters and pricks and so most easie to be read and vnderstood for the Hebrew word there vsed is Mishneth which signifies Double and so you see here in your interliniall Bible Pagani doth translate it Duplum legis that is the Law written in the double forme both with letters and pricks Another Priest Mr. Smith being confounded with this proofe could answer nothing therfore another Priest who did sit by to assist him answered for him that the Hebrew word Mishneth doth not signifie the originall Scriptures but the exposition of the Rabbins vpon the text of Scripture Mr. Walker It is true that the Rabbins call their Expositions somtimes by this name as for example Rabbi Moses Maymonides call his Summe of the Talmid Mishueth Torah But you must know that in Moses his dayes when he wrote this Booke of Deuteronomy there were no Rabbinical Commentaries nor for a thousand yeares after only the Law it selfe was kept before the Priests and the King was commanded to write it onely into a Booke There Mishueth cannot here signifie any thing but the Text of the Law written in double forme which double forme of writing was easie to bee read and vnderstood and was an exposition in respect of the single writing without prickes Whereupon this word Mishueth came to signifie an Exposition or Commentary which doth largely expresse the meaning of the Law which is more short and obscure and the Iewes do call by this name the Book of Deuteronomy because it is an Exposition of the Lawes written more obscurely in the other bookes And their Expositions of the Law set down in their Talmud they also call Mishueth and Mishuai●th Priest The word Mishueth doth not signifie properly the Scripture but the doubled Law for the Scripture is called Mickra in the Hebrew tongue Mr. Walker The Law is the first Scripture which was written and therefore the word Mishuith by your own confession signisying the Law doubled is written in double forme signifies the Scripture written both with letters and pricks and so you contradict your selfe in your speech Whereas you alledge another name by which the Hebrewes call the Scripture to wit Mickra and from them would inferre that the Scripture is neuer called Mishueth by them I answer that your reason is ridiculous for one name of the Scripture doth not take away the rest but it hath diuers names in all languages we in English call it the Scripture and the Bible and the Booke of God and Gods word So in Hebrew the Scripture is called by diuers names sometimes Torah that is the Law because it is the rule of Life sometimes Chethab The Scripture or writing because it is written Sometimes Mickra because it is read of all Gods people And as it is written full and plaine in letters and pricks it is called Mishueh The Priest hauing nothing to reply to this answer but holding his peace Some of the Gentlemen desired that these disputations about the Hebrew text which they could not vnderstand might cease and that Mr. Smith would dispute in plaine English by way of Syllogismes To which motion both parties agreed And so Mr. Smith proceeded to another Argument which was written downe first and then answered Mr. Smith That Church which may erre for a time in a fundamentall point necessary to saluation is no true Church Yours is such Mr. VValker I deny your proposition for a true Church may so erre for a time Mr. Smith That Church which may erre for a time in a fundamentall point necessary to saluation hath no certainty for that time yours is such Ergo it is no true Church Mr. Walker Your Argument is Sophisticall and faultie diuers wayes First it doth not proue the proposition which I denyed and so it is a fallacy which we call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ignorationem Elanchi Secondly it is no true Syllogisme because it hath foure tearmes For the premisses tend to proue that our Church hath no certaintie and you conclude otherwise to wit that it is no true Church Thirdly the proposition is false for actuall erring in one point doth not take away certainty in all the rest much lesse possibilitie of erring for a time Mr. Smith I proue it