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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A43976	Considerations upon the reputation, loyalty, manners, & religion of Thomas Hobbes of Malmsbury written by himself, by way of letter to a learned person.; Mr. Hobbes considered in his loyalty, religion, reputation and manners	Hobbes, Thomas, 1588-1679.	1680 (1680)	Wing H2218; ESTC R6871	20,985	80

CONSIDERATIONS UPON The REPUTATION LOYALTY MANNERS RELIGION OF THOMAS HOBBES OF MALMSBVRY Written by Himself By way of LETTER to a Learned Person LONDON Printed for William Crooke at the Green Dragon without Temple-bar 1680. THE BOOKSELLER'S ADVERTISEMENT To the READERS I Do here present you with a Piece of Mr. Hobbes's Writing which is not published from an imperfect MS. as his Dialogue of the Civil Wars of England was by some that had got accidentally a Copy of it absolutely against his consent as you may see by some Passages out of some of his Letters to me which I have here inserted In his Letter of June 1679. he saith I would fain have published my Dialogue of the Civil Wars of England long ago and to that end I presented it to his Majesty and some days after when I thought he had read it I humbly besought him to let me print it but his Majesty though he heard me gratiously yet he flatly refused to have it published Therefore I brought away the Book and gave you leave to take a Copy of it which when you had done I gave the Original to an honourable and learned Friend who about a year after died The King knows better and is more concerned in publishing of Books than I am Therefore I dare not venture to appear in the business lest it should offend him Therefore I pray you not to meddle in the business Rather than to be thought any way to further or countenance the printing I would be content to lose twenty times the value of what you can expect to gain by it c. I pray do not take it ill it may be I may live to send you somewhat else as vendible as that And without offence I rest Chatsworth June 19. 1679. Your Very humble Servant Thomas Hobbes Part of his Letter in July 1679. If I leave any MSs. worth printing I will leave word you shall have them if you please I am Chatsworth July 21. 1679. Your humble Servant Thomas Hobbes Part of his Letter Aug. 1679. Sir I thank you for taking my advice in not stirring about the printing of my Book concerning the Civil Wars of England c. I am writing somewhat for you to print in English c. I am Chatsworth Aug. 18. 1679. Sir Your humble Servant Thomas Hobbes That no spurious Brats for the time to come be fathered upon the deceased Author I have printed verbatim these Passages out of his Letters written to me at several times Their Original I have by me I will be so just to his Memory that I will not print any thing but what is perfect and fitted for the Press And if any Book shall be printed with his Name to it that hath not before been printed you may be confident it is not his unless Printed for William Crooke Sir I Am one of them that admire your Writings and having read over your Hobbius Heauton-timorumenos I cannot hold from giving you some account of the causes why I admire it And first I considered how you handle him for his Disloyalty in these words pag. the 5 th His great Leviathan wherein he placed his main strength is now somewhat out of season which upon deserting his Royal Master in distress for he pretends to have been the King's Tutor though yet from those who have most reason to know it I can find but little ground for such a pretence was written in defence of Oliver's Title or whoever by whatsoever means can get to be upmost placing the whole Right of Government meerly in strength and Absolving all his Majesties Subjects from their Allegiance whenever He is not in a present capacity to force Obedience That which I observe and admire here first is That you left not this passage out for two reasons One because M r Hobbes could long for nothing more than such an occasion to tell the world his own and your little stories during the time of the late Rebellion When the Parliament sate that began in April 1640. and was dissolved in May following and in which many points of the Regal Power which were necessary for the Peace of the Kingdom and the safety of His Majesties Person were disputed and denied M r. Hobbes wrote a little Treatise in English wherein he did set forth and demonstrate That the said Power and Rights were inseparably annexed to the Sovereignty which Sovereignty they did not then deny to be in the King but it seems understood not or would not understand that Inseparability Of this Treatise though not Printed many Gentlemen had Copies which occasioned much talk of the Author and had not His Majesty dissolved the Parliament it had brought him into danger of his Life He was the first that had ventured to write in the King's defence and one amongst very few that upon no other ground but knowledge of his Duty and Principles of Equity without special Interest was in all points perfectly Loyal The 3 d of November following there began a new Parliament consisting for the greatest part of such men as the People had elected only for their adverseness to the Kings Interest These proceeded so fiercely in the very beginning against those that had written or preach'd in the defence of any part of that Power which they then intended to take away and in gracing those whom the King had disgrac'd for Sedition that Mr. Hobbes doubting how they would use him went over into France the first of all that fled and there continued eleven years to his dammage some thousands of pounds deep This Dr. was your time of harvest You were in their favour and that as you have made it since appear for no goodness Being at Paris he wrote and published his Book de Cive in Latine to the end that all Nations which should hear what you and your Concovenanters were doing in England might detest you which I believe they do for I know no Book more magnified than this is beyond the Seas When His Majesty that now is came to Paris Mr. Hobbes had the honour to initiate him in the Mathematicks but never was so impudent or ignorant as to call or think himself the King's Tutor as you that understand not what that word out of the University signifies do falsly charge him with or ever to say that he was one of His Majesties domestique Servants While upon this occasion he staid about Paris and had neither encouragement nor desire to return into England he wrote and published his Leviathan far from the intention either of disadvantage to His Majesty or to flatter Oliver who was not made Protector till three or four years after or purpose to make way for his return For there is scarce a page in it that does not upbraid both him and you and others such as you with your abominable hypocrisie and villany Nor did he desert His Majesty as you falsly accuse him as His Majesty Himself knows Nor was His Majesty as you unmannerly term

it in distress He had the Title Right and Reverence of a King and maintained His faithful Servants with Him It is true that Mr. Hobbes came home but it was because he would not trust his safety with the French Clergy Do you know that ever he sought any benefit either from Oliver or from any of his Party or was any way familiar with any of his Ministers before or after his Return or curried favour with any of them as you did by Dedicating a Book to his Vice-Chancellor Owen Did you ever hear that he took any thing done to him by His Majesty in evil part or spake of him otherwise than the best of His Servants would do or that he was sullen silent or sparing in praising His Majesty in any company upon any occasion He knew who were his enemies and upon what ground they misconstrued his writings But your indiscretion appears more manifestly in giving him occasion to repeat what you have done and to consider you as you professedly have considered him For with what equity can it be denied him to repeat your manifest and horrible Crimes for all you have been pardoned when you publish falsly pretended faults of his and comprehended in the same pardon If he should say and publish That you decyphered the Letters of the King and His Party and thereby delivered his Majesties secrets to the Enemy and His best Friends to the Scaffold and boasted of it in your Book of Arithmetick written in Latin to all the World as of a Monument of your Wit worthy to be preserved in the University Library How will you justifie your self if you be reproached for having been a Rebel and a Traytor It may be you or some for you will now say You decyphered those Letters to the King's advantage But then you were unfaithful to your Masters of the Parliament A very honest pretence and full of gallantry to excuse Treason with Treachery and to be a double Spy Besides Who will believe it Who enabled you to do the King that favour Why hearded you with His Enemies Who brought the King into a need of such a fellows favour but they that first deserted him and then made War upon him and which were your friends and Mr. Hobbes his enemies Nay more I know not one enemy Mr. Hobbes then had but such as were first the Kings enemies and because the King 's therefore his Your being of that Party without your decyphering amounts to more than a desertion Of the Bishops that then were and for whose sakes in part you raised the War there was not one that followed the King out of the Land though they loved him but lived quietly under the Protection first of the Parliament and then of Oliver whose Titles and Actions were equally unjust without treachery Is not this as bad as if they had gone over and which was Mr. Hobbes his case been driven back again I hope you will not call them all desertors or because by their stay here openly they accepted of the Parliament's and of Oliver's Protection defenders either of Oliver's or of the Parliament's Title to the Sovereign Power How many were there in that Parliament at first that did indeed and voluntarily desert the King in consenting to many of their unjust actions Many of these afterwards either upon better judgment or because they pleased not the Faction for it was a hard matter for such as were not of Pymms Cabal to please the Parliament or for some other private ends deserted the Parliament and did some of them more hurt to the King than if they had staid where they were for they had been so affrighted by such as you with a panick fear of Tyranny that seeking to help Him by way of Composition and sharing they abated the just and necessary indignation of His Armies by which only His Right was to be recovered That very entring into the Covenant with the Scottish Nation against the King is by it self a very great Crime and you guilty of it And so was the imposing of the Engagement and you guilty of that also as being done by the then Parliament whose Democratical Principles you approv'd of You were also assisting to the Resemblance of Divines that made the Directory and which were afterwards put down by Oliver for counterfeiting themselves Ambassadors And this was when the King was living and in the head of an Army which with your own endeavour might have protected you What crime it is the King being Head of the Church of England to make Directories to alter the Church-Government and to set up new Forms of Gods Service upon your own fancies without the Kings Authority the Lawyers could have told you and what punishment you were to expect from it you might have seen in the Statute printed before the Book of Common-Prayer Further he may say and truly That you were guilty of all the Treasons Murders and Spoil committed by Oliver or by any upon Oliver's or the Parliament's Authority For during the late trouble who made both Oliver and the People mad but the Preachers of your Principles But besides the wickedness see the folly of it You thought to make them mad but just to such a degree as should serve your own turn that is to say mad and yet just as wise as your selves Were you not very imprudent to think to govern madness Paul they knew but who were you Who were they that put the Army into Oliver's hands who before as mad as he was was too weak and too obscure to do any great mischief with which Army he executed upon such as you both here and in Scotland that which the Justice of God required Therefore of all the Crimes the Great Crime not excepted done in that Rebellion you were guilty You I say Dr. how little force or wit soever you contributed for your good will to their Cause The King was hunted as a Partridge in the Mountains and though the Hounds have been hang'd yet the Hunters were as guilty as they and deserved no less punishment And the Decypherers and all that blew the horn are to be reckoned amongst the Hunters Perhaps you would not have had the prey killed but rather have kept it tame And yet who can tell I have read of few Kings deprived of their Power by their own Subjects that have lived any long time after it for reasons that every man is able to conjecture All this is so manifest as it needs no witnesses In the mean time Mr. Hobbes his behaviour was such that of them who appeared in that Scene he was the only man I know except a few that had the same Principles with him that has not something more or less to blush for as having either assisted that rebellious Parliament without necessity when they might have had Protection from the King if they had resorted to him for it in the field by Covenanting or by Action or with Money or Plate or by Voting against His

Majesties Interest in Himself or His Friends though some of them have since by extraordinary Service deserved to be received into favour But what 's that to you You are none of them and yet you dare to reproach the guiltless as if after so ill fruits of your Sermons it were not impudence enough to preach I admire further That having been forgiven these so transcendent Crimes so great a debt to the Gallows you take Mr. Hobbes by the throat for a word in his Leviathan made a fault by malicious or over-hasty construction For you have thereby like the unmerciful debtor in the Gospel in my opinion forseited your pardon and so without a new one may be hanged yet To that other Charge That he writ his Leviathan in defence of Oliver's Title he will say That you in your own conscience know it is false What was Oliver when that Book came forth It was in 1650 and Mr. Hobbes returned before 1651. Oliver was then but General under your Masters of the Parliament nor had yet cheated them of their usurped Power For that was not done till two or three years after in 1653. which neither he nor you could foresee What Title then of Oliver's could he pretend to justifie But you will say He placed the Right of Government there wheresoever should be the strength and so by consequence he placed it in Oliver Is that all Then primarily his Leviathan was intended for your Masters of the Parliament because the strength was then in them Why did they not thank him for it both they and Oliver in their turns There Doctor you decypher'd ill For it was written in the behalf of those many and faithful Servants and Subjects of His Majesty that had taken His part in the War or otherwise done their utmost endeavour to defend His Majesties Right and Person against the Rebels whereby having no other means of Protection nor for the most part of subsistence were forced to compound with your Masters and to promise Obedience for the saving of their Lives and Fortunes which in his Book he hath affirmed they might lawfully do and consequently not lawfully bear Arms against the Victors They that had done their utmost endeavour to perform their obligation to the King had done all that they could be obliged unto and were consequently at liberty to seek the safety of their Lives and Livelihood wheresoever and without Treachery But there is nothing in that Book to justifie the submission of you or such as you to the Parliament after the King 's being driven from them or to Oliver for you were the King's Enemies and cannot pretend want of that Protection which you your selves refused denied fought against and destroyed If a man owe you money and you by robbing him or other injury disable him to pay you the fault 's your own nor needs this exception Unless the Creditor rob him be put into the Condition of the Bond. Protection and Obedience are Relative He that says a man may submit to an enemy for want of Protection can never be construed but that he meant it of the Obedient But let us consider his words They are in pag. 390. Where he puts for a Law of Nature That every man is bound as much as in him lieth to protect in War the Authority by which he is himself protected in time of Peace which I think is no ungodly nor unreasonable Principle For confirmation of it he defines in what point of time it is that a Subject becomes obliged to obey an unjust Conquerour And defines it thus It is that point wherein having liberty to submit to the Conquerour he consenteth either by express words or by other sufficient signs to be his Subject I cannot see Doctor how a man can be at liberty to submit to his new that has not first done all he could for his old Master Nor if he have done all he could why that liberty should be refused him If a man be taken by the Turk and brought by terrour to fight against his former Master I see how he may be kill'd for it as an Enemy but not as a Criminal Nor can I see how he that hath liberty to submit can at the same time be bound not to submit But you will say perhaps That he defines the time of that liberty to the advantage of Oliver in that he says that for an ordinary Subject it is then when the means of his Life are within the Guards and Garrisons of the Enemy for it is then that he hath no protection but from the Enemy for his Contribution It was not necessary for him to explain it to men of so great Understanding that you and other his Enemies pretend to be by putting in the Exception Unless they came into those Guards and Garrisons by their own Treason Do you think that Oliver's Party for their submission to Oliver could pretend the want of that Protection The words therefore by themselves without that exception do signifie no more than this That whosoever had done as much as in him did lye to protect the King in War had liberty afterwards to provide themselves of such Protection as they could get which to those whose means of life were within the Guards and Garrisons of Oliver was Oliver's Protection Do you think when a Battel is lost and you at the mercy of the Enemy is it unlawful to receive Quarter with condition of Obedience Or if you receive it on that condition do you think it honesty to break promise and treacherously murder him that gave you your life If that were good Doctrine he were a foolish Enemy that would give Quarter to any man You see then that this submission to Oliver or to your then Masters is allowed by Mr. Hobbes his Doctrine only to the King 's faithful Party and not to any that fought against him howsoever they coloured it by saying they fought for the King and Parliament nor to any that writ or preached against His Cause or encouraged His Adversaries nor to any that betrayed His Counsels or that intercepted or decyphered any Letters of His or of His Officers or of any of His Party nor to any that by any way had contributed to the diminution of His Majesties Power Ecclesiastical or Civil nor does it absolve any of them from their Allegeance You that make it so heinous a crime for a man to save himself from violent death by a forc'd submission to an Usurper should have considered what crime it was to submit voluntarily to the Usurping Parliament I can tell you besides why those words were put into his last Chapter which he calls the Review It happened at that time that there were many Honourable Persons that having been faithful and unblemished Servants of the King and Souldiers in His Army had their Estates then Sequestred of whom some were fled but the Fortunes of them all were at the mercy not of Oliver but of the Parliament Some of these