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book_n king_n read_v write_v 2,895 5 5.5794 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A48248 A friendly discourse between an English dissenter and a French Protestant concerning the liturgy and ceremonies of the Church of England. By Daniel la Fite, M.A. Rector of East-Dean, in the county of Sussex. The first part.; Friendly discourse between an English dissenter and a French Protestant. Part 1 Lafite, Daniel. 1691 (1691) Wing L177; ESTC R201987 32,685 118

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proceed_v if_o you_o please_v f._n p._n after_o the_o short_a prayer_n and_o responsal_n now_o mention_v follow_v the_o doxology_n glory_n be_v to_o the_o father_n and_o to_o the_o son_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v both_o a_o sound_a form_n of_o praise_v and_o glorify_v the_o eternal_a and_o tri-une_a god_n father_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n and_o a_o short_a creed_n or_o confession_n of_o our_o faith_n concern_v the_o trinity_n in_o unity_n and_o if_o you_o demand_v of_o i_o why_o it_o be_v place_v here_o in_o the_o close_a of_o the_o penitential_a part_n of_o our_o prayer_n i_o answer_v because_o have_v before_o confess_v our_o sin_n and_o humble_o entreat_v mercy_n and_o remission_n for_o they_o and_o be_v now_o in_o full_a hope_n that_o our_o merciful_a father_n have_v gracious_o hear_v and_o grant_v our_o request_n we_o immediate_o change_v our_o prayer_n into_o praise_n and_o our_o supplication_n into_o thanksgiving_n and_o with_o transport_n of_o joy_n and_o gratitude_n we_o 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we_o be_v speak_v of_o have_v no_o power_n or_o authority_n commit_v to_o they_o to_o plant_v or_o institute_v a_o new_a religion_n but_o only_o to_o reform_v the_o abuse_n that_o be_v creep_v into_o the_o church_n and_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o chief_a part_n of_o the_o christian_a religion_n now_o in_o this_o case_n it_o be_v evident_a that_o it_o be_v none_o of_o their_o duty_n or_o office_n to_o take_v away_o the_o whole_a public_a service_n or_o liturgy_n which_o indeed_o at_o that_o time_n be_v very_o corrupt_a though_o not_o to_o that_o degree_n but_o that_o some_o good_a be_v still_o find_v among_o it_o but_o only_o to_o change_v what_o be_v amiss_o to_o supply_v the_o defect_n of_o it_o and_o cast_v away_o whatsoever_o be_v corrupt_a or_o superfluous_a second_o it_o be_v great_a wisdom_n in_o they_o to_o observe_v the_o mean_a between_o two_o extreme_n by_o shun_v on_o the_o one_o hand_n a_o spirit_n of_o bitterness_n and_o hatred_n against_o the_o party_n they_o reform_v from_o and_o on_o the_o other_o hand_n avoid_v a_o sinful_a compliance_n with_o the_o corruption_n of_o those_o who_o be_v so_o unwilling_a to_o part_v with_o their_o idolatry_n and_o superstition_n and_o far_o to_o illustrate_v my_o argument_n i_o must_v tell_v you_o that_o the_o reformer_n of_o our_o church_n act_v according_a to_o this_o commendable_a maxim_n of_o christian_a charity_n and_o moderation_n viz._n that_o in_o love_n and_o condescension_n to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n we_o ought_v not_o to_o reject_v any_o thing_n use_v by_o they_o but_o what_o be_v find_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n whereas_o the_o reformer_n of_o your_o party_n proceed_v according_a to_o this_o rule_n that_o in_o hatred_n and_o detestation_n of_o popery_n we_o ought_v not_o to_o admit_v the_o least_o thing_n the_o papist_n make_v use_n of_o in_o their_o divine_a service_n and_o only_o for_o this_o reason_n because_o they_o use_v it_o now_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v of_o you_o which_o of_o these_o two_o you_o take_v to_o be_v the_o most_o christian_n and_o charitable_a method_n and_o whether_o the_o principle_n our_o reformer_n go_v by_o be_v not_o preferable_a to_o that_o of_o your_o party_n the_o reason_n be_v evident_a beyond_o dispute_n because_o our_o reformer_n by_o retain_v what_o be_v good_a and_o of_o primitive_a purity_n in_o the_o public_a service_n of_o the_o romanist_n and_o reject_v only_o what_o be_v manifest_o corrupt_v and_o superstitious_a they_o leave_v a_o door_n open_a for_o they_o and_z as_o it_o be_v friendly_o invite_v they_o to_o leave_v their_o adulterous_a church_n and_o to_o enter_v into_o our_o communion_n e._n d._n but_o pray_v tell_v i_o what_o great_a or_o good_a effect_n this_o condescension_n do_v ever_o yet_o produce_v for_o i_o never_o understand_v that_o this_o their_o moderate_a and_o design_v way_n of_o reform_v the_o church_n have_v be_v a_o mean_n to_o persuade_v the_o papist_n to_o leave_v their_o idolatry_n and_o superstition_n and_o to_o become_v convert_v to_o their_o church_n f._n p._n if_o i_o shall_v grant_v you_o that_o the_o number_n of_o popish_a convert_v to_o our_o church_n be_v not_o very_o considerable_a will_v it_o follow_v from_o thence_o that_o the_o mean_v use_v for_o so_o good_a and_o charitable_a a_o end_n be_v undue_a or_o unlawful_a for_o though_o god_n hitherto_o have_v not_o be_v please_v to_o bless_v these_o good_a mean_n with_o the_o great_a success_n that_o may_v be_v wish_v for_o yet_o we_o know_v not_o how_o soon_o he_o may_v especial_o consider_v that_o we_o have_v never_o more_o reason_n to_o expect_v the_o total_a downfall_n of_o popery_n which_o according_a to_o outward_a appearance_n can_v no_o way_n so_o probable_o be_v bring_v about_o as_o by_o the_o papist_n embrace_v the_o protestant_a religion_n let_v we_o therefore_o take_v heed_n of_o deride_v as_o you_o seem_v to_o do_v those_o lawful_a moderate_a and_o christian-like_a method_n the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v make_v use_n to_o facilitate_v the_o papist_n conversion_n e._n d._n i_o find_v then_o you_o take_v your_o common-prayer_n to_o be_v a_o lawful_a moderate_a and_o christian-like_a method_n or_o mean_n to_o facilitate_v the_o conversion_n of_o the_o papist_n f._n p._n i_o do_v so_o and_o i_o question_v not_o but_o in_o due_a time_n it_o will_v prove_v very_o effectual_a that_o way_n to_o the_o stop_n of_o the_o mouth_n of_o all_o gainsayers_a e._n d._n ay_o you_o may_v look_v for_o it_o long_o enough_o i_o suppose_v and_o if_o by_o great_a change_n it_o shall_v ever_o prove_v to_o be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n i_o dare_v say_v for_o all_o that_o it_o will_v never_o be_v a_o lawful_a one_o for_o to_o speak_v free_o and_o without_o mince_v the_o matter_n i_o be_o of_o opinion_n that_o though_o it_o may_v be_v lawful_a to_o use_v some_o form_n of_o prayer_n yet_o it_o be_v altogether_o unlawful_a to_o use_v that_o form_n which_o be_v now_o in_o vogue_n among_o you_o f._n p._n then_o i_o find_v you_o be_v not_o altogether_o irreconcilable_a to_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o pray_v by_o form_n but_o you_o be_v not_o satisfy_v with_o the_o form_n we_o use_v i_o shall_v be_v glad_a to_o hear_v the_o ground_n of_o your_o dissatisfaction_n as_o hope_v by_o this_o mean_n to_o have_v a_o opportunity_n offer_v i_o to_o enlarge_v myself_o more_o in_o the_o praise_n of_o our_o common-prayer_n than_o hitherto_o i_o have_v have_v occasion_n to_o do_v e._n d._n i_o know_v the_o humour_n of_o frenchman_n be_v to_o be_v complaisant_a and_o complimental_a and_o so_o very_o probable_o you_o design_n in_o compliment_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n to_o fall_v down_o to_o the_o common-prayer_n the_o great_a idol_n of_o the_o english_a clergy_n as_o you_o have_v already_o express_v your_o great_a respect_n for_o their_o dull_a and_o profane_a priest_n f._n p._n i_o beg_v of_o you_o sir_n let_v we_o discourse_v without_o prejudice_n or_o passion_n and_o be_v so_o kind_a as_o to_o tell_v i_o calm_o and_o friendly_a what_o objection_n you_o have_v against_o our_o common-prayer-book_n in_o particular_a e._n d._n before_o i_o give_v you_o the_o particular_a objection_n i_o have_v against_o the_o common-prayer-book_n i_o shall_v premise_v this_o general_n observation_n that_o your_o common-prayer_n be_v so_o bad_a that_o there_o be_v nothing_o good_a in_o it_o no_o nor_o any_o thing_n that_o be_v so_o much_o as_o tolerable_a f._n p._n how_o strange_o you_o and_o i_o differ_v in_o opinion_n as_o for_o my_o part_n i_o real_o think_v there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o but_o what_o be_v very_o good_a e._n d._n if_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o as_o i_o desire_v you_o will_v eris_n mihi_fw-la magnus_fw-la apollo_n for_o indeed_o you_o will_v do_v more_o than_o all_o your_o clergyman_n that_o ever_o i_o discourse_v with_o and_o more_o than_o all_o the_o book_n that_o treat_v of_o this_o subject_a have_v be_v able_a to_o do_v f._n p._n if_o the_o case_n be_v so_o indeed_o i_o shall_v be_v loath_a to_o undertake_v the_o task_n for_o if_o none_o of_o our_o clergy_n that_o you_o have_v discourse_v with_o nor_o any_o of_o those_o excellent_a book_n write_v in_o the_o defence_n of_o our_o liturgy_n have_v be_v able_a to_o convince_v you_o of_o the_o goodness_n and_o usefulness_n thereof_o it_o will_v be_v folly_n for_o i_o to_o attempt_v it_o for_o i_o be_o very_o sensible_a that_o my_o part_n and_o ability_n be_v far_o below_o any_o one_o of_o our_o clergy_n that_o you_o have_v have_v to_o deal_v with_o and_o to_o speak_v the_o truth_n it_o be_v from_o they_o and_o their_o write_n i_o have_v acquire_v the_o best_a part_n of_o that_o little_a learning_n and_o insight_n into_o these_o thing_n that_o i_o have_v e._n d._n i_o hope_v you_o be_v as_o modest_a a_o man_n as_o your_o discourse_n will_v import_v beside_o be_v a_o french_a protestant_n you_o as_o such_o can_v have_v neither_o public_a nor_o private_a reason_n to_o bear_v any_o ill-will_n to_o our_o party_n wherefore_o i_o look_v upon_o you_o as_o a_o unbiased_a person_n without_o prejudice_n or_o partiality_n and_o consequent_o fit_a to_o be_v discourse_v with_o about_o the_o matter_n in_o question_n between_o we_o and_o indeed_o all_o this_o make_v i_o the_o more_o desirous_a to_o hear_v the_o argument_n you_o can_v produce_v for_o prove_v your_o assertion_n that_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o common-prayer-book_n but_o what_o be_v very_o good_a f._n p._n i_o think_v all_o this_o while_n that_o you_o intend_v to_o propound_v your_o objection_n against_o the_o common-prayer_n and_o that_o my_o only_a business_n will_v have_v be_v to_o answer_v they_o e._n d._n i_o suppose_v we_o may_v do_v both_o these_o thing_n at_o once_o for_o if_o you_o please_v to_o tell_v i_o
omit_v it_o be_v either_o because_o they_o contain_v little_a else_o but_o a_o repetition_n of_o what_o be_v go_v before_o or_o because_o they_o treat_v of_o the_o genealogy_n ceremony_n and_o law_n of_o the_o jew_n which_o chief_o concern_v they_o as_o be_v now_o antiquate_v and_o of_o little_a use_n under_o the_o gospel_n e._n d._n pray_o why_o do_v you_o read_v the_o apocryphal_a book_n then_o which_o certain_o be_v of_o as_o little_a use_n and_o concern_v as_o those_o book_n and_o chapter_n you_o omit_v in_o the_o course_n of_o your_o lesson_n f._n p._n i_o do_v think_v so_o for_o though_o they_o be_v not_o canonical_a they_o be_v such_o as_o may_v be_v read_v with_o profit_n and_o edification_n in_o that_o they_o contain_v many_o true_a and_o pious_a history_n or_o relation_n of_o the_o life_n and_o action_n of_o several_a great_a and_o excellent_a person_n who_o worthy_a and_o glorious_a example_n be_v very_o proper_a to_o affect_v our_o heart_n and_o raise_v up_o in_o we_o a_o ardent_a desire_n and_o holy_a emulation_n to_o imitate_v their_o transcendent_a virtue_n to_o express_v their_o untainted_a innocence_n and_o copy_n their_o unshaken_a constancy_n courage_n and_o magnanimity_n moreover_o we_o find_v there_o most_o exquisite_a precept_n of_o morality_n direct_v and_o inform_v of_o we_o in_o the_o practice_n of_o all_o virtuous_a action_n teach_v we_o how_o to_o order_v our_o life_n manner_n and_o conversation_n and_o recommend_v to_o we_o the_o loveliness_n and_o excellence_n of_o virtue_n as_o well_o as_o represent_v the_o deformity_n and_o misery_n of_o vice_n and_o wickedness_n e._n d._n but_o if_o i_o be_v not_o mistake_v you_o do_v not_o read_v the_o first_o and_o second_o lesson_n immediate_o one_o after_o another_o f._n p._n true_o for_o after_o the_o first_o morning_n lesson_n we_o say_v or_o sing_v the_o te_fw-la deum_fw-la we_o praise_v thou_o o_o god_n etc._n etc._n or_o the_o benedicite_fw-la o_o all_o you_o work_v of_o the_o lord_n bless_v you_o the_o lord_n etc._n etc._n both_o of_o which_o be_v the_o most_o excellent_a and_o heavenly_a hymn_n that_o ever_o be_v frame_v by_o man_n each_o of_o they_o be_v a_o most_o complete_a form_n of_o thanksgiving_n praise_n and_o adoration_n after_o the_o second_o morning_n lesson_n we_o repeat_v the_o song_n of_o zacharias_n or_o else_o the_o 100_o psalm_n both_o of_o which_o be_v not_o only_o divine_a and_o unquestionable_a but_o also_o extreme_o proper_a to_o inflame_v our_o heart_n with_o love_n and_o gratitude_n to_o god_n for_o all_o his_o unutterable_a goodness_n bestow_v upon_o we_o in_o the_o evening_n service_n after_o the_o first_o lesson_n the_o church_n appoint_v the_o song_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n or_o the_o 98_o psalm_n and_o after_o the_o second_o lesson_n the_o 67_o psalm_n or_o the_o song_n of_o old_a simeon_n all_o which_o for_o the_o reason_n just_o now_o mention_v can_v but_o be_v acceptable_a to_o god_n and_o edify_v to_o those_o that_o attend_v his_o worship_n e._n d._n but_o what_o probable_a reason_n can_v you_o give_v for_o insert_v and_o intermix_v these_o song_n of_o praise_n with_o your_o lesson_n f._n p._n the_o church_n have_v appoint_v the_o repetition_n of_o these_o sacred_a and_o seraphic_a hymn_n to_o be_v use_v as_o a_o solemn_a form_n of_o thanksgiving_n for_o those_o unspeakable_a mercy_n and_o heavenly_a blessing_n and_o good_a thing_n reveal_v and_o promise_v to_o we_o in_o his_o word_n new_o read_v to_o we_o and_o it_o be_v but_o sit_v and_o seemly_a that_o after_o we_o have_v hear_v god_n gracious_o speak_v to_o we_o we_o shall_v in_o gratitude_n echo_v forth_o our_o praise_n and_o thanks_o to_o he_o and_o this_o we_o do_v in_o the_o hymn_n now_o mention_v e._n d._n some_o of_o these_o hymn_n i_o think_v may_v be_v allow_v but_o there_o be_v two_o thrust_v in_o among_o they_o which_o seem_v to_o i_o very_o improper_a and_o that_o be_v the_o song_n of_o the_o virgin_n mary_n for_o bear_v christ_n in_o her_o womb_n and_o that_o of_o old_a simeon_n for_o see_v jesus_n christ_n in_o the_o flesh_n and_o hold_v he_o in_o his_o arm_n now_o since_o these_o be_v extraordinary_a case_n which_o reach_v none_o of_o we_o therefore_o i_o conclude_v the_o use_n of_o they_o somewhat_o strange_a and_o extravagant_a f._n p._n to_o begin_v with_o your_o first_o objection_n i_o ready_o own_o that_o we_o have_v not_o the_o same_o occasion_n to_o use_v this_o hymn_n as_o the_o bless_a virgin_n have_v for_o god_n the_o word_n his_o take_a flesh_n in_o her_o womb_n be_v a_o privilege_n peculiar_a to_o she_o alone_o yet_o pray_v consider_v that_o when_o we_o in_o all_o humility_n with_o obedience_n and_o faith_n receive_v the_o word_n of_o god_n read_v to_o we_o or_o as_o st._n luke_n phrase_v it_o chap._n 11.28_o when_o we_o hear_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o keep_v it_o we_o do_v conceive_v christ_n by_o faith_n for_o according_a to_o st._n paul_n doctrine_n gal._n 4.19_o it_o be_v by_o hear_v and_o keep_v the_o word_n of_o god_n that_o christ_n be_v form_v in_o we_o not_o carnal_o but_o spiritual_o wherefore_o we_o be_v as_o much_o oblige_v after_o a_o due_a hear_n of_o god_n word_n to_o break_v forth_o into_o a_o holy_a magnificat_fw-la my_o soul_n do_v magnify_v the_o lord_n because_o christ_n be_v form_v in_o we_o spiritual_o as_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v because_o christ_n be_v form_v in_o she_o according_a to_o the_o flesh_n and_o as_o to_o your_o second_o objection_n i_o may_v tell_v you_o that_o this_o hymn_n of_o old_a simeon_n be_v frequent_o use_v in_o our_o french_a protestant_n church_n as_o be_v common_o sing_v every_o lord's-day_n but_o if_o this_o authority_n do_v not_o satisfy_v you_o i_o shall_v give_v you_o a_o reason_n why_o the_o church_n of_o england_n after_o the_o read_n of_o the_o second_o lesson_n at_o evening-prayer_n order_v the_o rehearse_v the_o song_n of_o this_o bless_a man_n for_o though_o indeed_o in_o the_o read_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n we_o do_v not_o behold_v christ_n with_o our_o bodily_a eye_n as_o simeon_n do_v yet_o may_v we_o with_o the_o spiritual_a eye_n of_o our_o faith_n see_v that_o salvation_n he_o then_o see_v and_o that_o more_o clear_o because_o it_o be_v now_o more_o full_o manifest_v and_o therefore_o upon_o this_o account_n we_o have_v the_o same_o reason_n to_o say_v with_o he_o lord_n now_o let_v thou_o thy_o servant_n to_o depart_v in_o peace_n for_o my_o eye_n have_v see_v thy_o salvation_n etc._n etc._n e._n d._n i_o perceive_v you_o have_v a_o peculiar_a way_n of_o apply_v the_o scripture_n to_o yourselves_o but_o let_v we_o examine_v what_o be_v next_o f._n p._n the_o next_o thing_n that_o follow_v be_v the_o confession_n of_o our_o faith_n common_o call_v the_o apostle_n creed_n e._n d._n but_o i_o suppose_v you_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o apostle_n make_v it_o f._n p._n though_o strong_a and_o convince_a argument_n may_v be_v allege_v to_o prove_v they_o the_o inditer_n or_o composer_n of_o it_o yet_o i_o be_o resolve_v at_o present_a not_o to_o differ_v with_o you_o about_o it_o and_o the_o rather_o because_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o will_v agree_v with_o i_o that_o as_o long_o as_o it_o comprehend_v nothing_o but_o what_o the_o apostle_n have_v teach_v we_o to_o believe_v and_o believe_v themselves_o it_o may_v very_o well_o of_o just_a right_n be_v call_v the_o apostle_n creed_n e._n d._n but_o what_o particular_a reason_n have_v your_o church_n to_o place_v it_o after_o the_o lesson_n f._n p._n because_o have_v hear_v some_o chapter_n out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n read_v to_o we_o it_o be_v but_o fit_a that_o we_o now_o make_v a_o public_a profession_n of_o our_o belief_n of_o the_o main_a and_o fundamental_a truth_n therein_o contain_v which_o can_v be_v better_a do_v than_o by_o repeat_v the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n which_o be_v not_o only_o a_o compendium_n of_o the_o gospel_n but_o of_o all_o holy_a writ_n e._n d._n but_o why_o be_v it_o you_o repeat_v it_o so_o often_o twice_o a_o day_n at_o least_o morning_n and_o evening_n f._n p._n true_o it_o can_v never_o be_v repeat_v too_o often_o and_o i_o be_o sure_a our_o french_a protestant_n thought_n so_o who_o example_n if_o it_o shall_v not_o convince_v you_o i_o hope_v the_o follow_a reason_n may_v because_o it_o serve_v to_o express_v our_o loyalty_n to_o god_n and_o our_o unity_n among_o ourselves_o and_o with_o the_o catholic_n church_n it_o be_v a_o touchstone_n to_o discover_v whether_o we_o continue_v in_o the_o number_n of_o christ_n disciple_n and_o in_o unity_n and_o concord_n with_o one_o another_o it_o be_v our_o watchword_n our_o badge_n mark_n and_o character_n whereby_o we_o may_v distinguish_v friend_n from_o foe_n true_a believer_n from_o infidel_n