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A52293 A conference with a theist part I / by William Nicholls. Nicholls, William, 1664-1712. 1698 (1698) Wing N1093; ESTC R25508 121,669 301

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being Anthropomorphites 280. Hebrew Language as well expresses the Nature of God as the Scholastical 282. Expiation consistent with the Mercy of God 292. The Origin of Sacrifices from Antient Revelation 295. God's Honour to be considered in the Mediatorship 300. What is meant by Satisfaction 303. A Vicarious punishment not unjust 306. Christ tho' God might Suffer 307. No Incongruity in the Doctrine of Christ's Intercession 309. THE CONTENTS of the Third Part. OF THE CONFERENCE Of the Predictions concerning Christ THE Objections answered of Prophecies not to the purpose p. 10. Texts quoted by way of accommodation p. 10. Texts quoted in Mystical Sense 14. Types and Allegories vindicated 20. Gen. 3.15 A Prophecy of Christ 27. Scepter of Judah Gen. 44.10 Prophecy of Christ 36. How the Fathers interpreted this Prophecy 45. Balaams Star Numb 24.17 a Prophecy of Christ 49. A Virgin shall conceive Isa 7.14 Prophecy of Christ 53. The Jewish way of Exposit a confirmation of Christianity 63. The Prophetick Excursions Explained 69. 2 Psalm a Prophecy of Christ 71. 62 Psalm a Prophecy of Christ 76. Prophecy of the Call of the Gentiles verified in Christ 83. Call of the Gentiles no random Guess of the Prophets 89. Glory of the Second Temple Hag. 2.7 a Prophecy of Christ 90. 52 53 cap. Isa Prophecy of Christ 96. The Monarchies and Weeks in Daniel Prophecy of Christ 100. Micha 5.2 Prophecy of Christ 115. Reason why Prophecies are something obscure 119. Of the Life and Actions of Christ as they are Recorded in Scripture The Birth of Christ Vindicated 124. The Blasphemy of Celsus and Julian confuted 127. Christ more glorious and great than Romulus Numa c 132. The Vindication of Christ's Anger Christ a pattern of the greatest Patience 136. Our Saviour's Discourse agreeable to the Eastern way of Reasoning 143. By making use of the Greek Philosophy and Eloquence he would not have been understood by the People 145. He avoided by this Prolixity 146. Christ does not speak Parables in his Laws nor generally Parables difficult 448. Christ's riding on an Ass not ridiculous 150. This a Token of his Humility and the nature of his Kingdom 150. To shew him to be a King as well as a Prophet 152. Jews Interpret this Prophecy of the Messias 153. Christ no Impostor but a good Man 155. Because his Miracles were done so often and before so many 157. His Miracles not capable of Collusion 158. He was no Cheat because he could get nothing by it 159. Because of the great Penalty on Impostors 162. Such Numbers could not conceal a Cheat. 163. Christ's Miracles owned by his Enemies 165. The Reason why Christ did so few Miracles in his own Country 167. Christ Preached the Gospel to the Poor not to deceive such people but because they were better qualified to receive the Gospel than the Rich. 170. The Ignorant better qualified for this than the Learned 170. This Choice made the Progress of the Gospel more miraculous 171. Why Christ required Faith in his Disciples 173. Mean Men as good Judges of Miracles as others 173. Vindication of Christ's Patience He more couragious and patient than the Heathen Philosophers 176. Reason of our Saviour's praying that the Cup might pass from him 177. Christ's Death no Collusion 181. Instances of Aristeas c. compared with Christ's Resurrection confuted 182. Testimony of Christ's rising from the Dead unexceptionable 185. The Disciples stealing away the Body a foolish Lie 189. Christ's not so generally Conversing with his Disciples after the Resurrection no Argument against the Truth of it 193. The Comparison of Apollonius with Christ foolish 199. Philostratus set on to forge his History 202. Forged in immitation of Gospel Miracles 203. Apollonius no good Man 206. Apostles more credible than Philostratus because unlearned 207. Story of Abaris his Miracles ridiculous 208. The Apostles not Counterfeits 209. Because good Men. 212. Because they knew the Matters they related ib. Because not cunning enough to carry on such a Cheat. 213. Because all witnessed the same 214. Because they could get nothing by it 215. Because the Truth of what they said easily examined 216. Because they Suffered and Died for their Doctrine 217. T is false that the Apostles ventured nothing by preaching for they ventured their Lives and Liberties 221. They did not preach for Vain Applause 222. Got nothing by the Collections 223. Persecuted by the Gentiles as well as Jews 224. Preached against the Heathen Idolatry 225. False Brethren not Informers 226. What St. Paul said to the Pharises no prevarication 226. Case of the Apostolick and Popish Miracles different 228. The Doctrine of the Messias before the Captivity 230. Not owing to the Jewish Gematria 232. Notion of a Temporal Messias did not further the Gospel 233. The Millennium no Apostolick Doctrine 234. Of the Doctrines Contained in the Old Testament Prayer of Christians vindicated because better than the Heathens 238. No Sauciness to pray to God 239. Prayer for Rain not for a Miracle 240. Christians think not to weary God by Prayer 242. Nor to flatter him by Thanksgiving 243. Mortification vindicated to be a a reasonable Duty 246. Single Marriage vindicated Polygamy not lawful from the practice of the Antients 249. Or Barbarous 250. More Comfort in Single Marriage 251. Affections of the Married do not naturally wear off by Age. 253. Nor by the speedy decay of Feminine Beauty 254. Ob. against Polygamy from the slavery of such Wives 255. From the equal Number of Males and Females 256. Humility and Meekness vind against Spinosa and Match 263. Forgiving Injuries Vindicated 268. Doctrine of Repentance Vindicated 276. And that of Grace 282. Reasonableness of the Institution of the Sacraments 287. Reasonableness of the general Resurrection 296. Of the Doctrine of Wicked Spirits 302. Of Hell and the Eternity of Hell Torments 307. Of Heaven 315. THE CONTENTS of the Fourth Part OF THE CONFERENCE Of the Authenticalness of the Books of Scripture MOses allowed to be the Author of the Pontateuch by all Antiquity p. 6. Father Simons Supposition Examined 8. No setled Scribes to write Scripture among the Jews 10. Jewish Scripture not wrote on loose Leaves 11. No Compilers to alter original Scripture 16. Esdras could not forge the Scripture 18. Spinosas Arguments against Moses being the Author of the Pentateuch answered 23. Isaiah the Author of the Book under his Name 38. Samuel Author of Judges and beginning of Samuel 41. The other parts of Samuel wrote by Nathan and Gad. 43. Kings and Chronicles a compilation after the Captivity 45. Esra wrote the book of that Name 46. Nehemiah Author of that Book 47. The Book of Job vindicated 49. The Psalms 52. Solomon Author of the Proverbs 54. Ecclesiastes 56. Panticles 57. The Authority of the Book of Isaiah 57. Jeremiah 60. Ezekiel 63. Daniel 65. Twelve Minor Prophets 66. The Absurdity of Spinosas asserting that all the Books of the Old Testament were wrote by the same hand
the end that well-meaning and religious Men whose Leisure or Education will not let them search so narrowly into these Disputes may from this Treatise be furnished with sufficient Answers to such Infidel Arguments Now the Objections which are urged in this Dialogue are part of them taken from the Discourse of some Deists I have casually conversed with but are mostly taken out of a Book lately published called Oracles of Reason the first Book I ever saw which did openly avow Infidelity This I had some thoughts once to have wrote a set Answer to but I found it was so sillily and loosely wrote that upon more serious consideration I could not think it did deserve one As to that Book it is a Collection made up of a few Letters wrote between some Sparks at London and of some Translations made out of one or two Greek and Latin Books All that is considerable in it and which carries any face of Argument and Learning is drawn out of two well-meaning Authors who I believe had no design against Christianity but only to advance their two several Hypotheses they were wedded to The first was the Author of the Hypothesis of the Praeadamites * Vid. Oldenburgi Collectanea ad Conringii Thesaur Rerump who seriously repented of his Book and his Errour before he died the other is the Ingenious and Learned Author of the Archaeologiae Philosophicae And this makes up the far greatest part of the Book But by the way we cannot but observe the great Disingenuity of Mr. Blount who is the chiefest of these Epistlers who takes no manner of notice of the Author of the Praeadamitae from whom he not only takes but translates all that is material almost in all his Letters For in his first Letter to Mr. Gildon from p. 8. to the end i. e. p. 19. there is nothing but a verbal Translation out of that Treatise save only a word or two p. 15. interposed about Bishop Taylor and so again p. 218. to p. 226. out of the same Author and nothing of his own but some false Latins and Spellings and ill Translations But to give the Reader a cast how fit these Gentlemen are to encounter with Christianity which stands established by its own Evidence and the Writings of so many Learned Men let him cast his Eye upon the last Page of that Book where Mr. Blount has translated a Quotation out of Scaliger de Emend brought by the Author of the Praeadamitae now he translates Octingenties octagies not eight hundred and eighty but eight hundred and eightscore as if the Romans had used to reckon by scores He might altogether as well have made them number by Bakers-Dozens As for the Objections I have taken out of this Book I have not always kept my self strictly to the words I found there but chiefly to the sence because otherwise sometimes the Argument would be too long and sometimes too obscure I have generally dressed up the Arguments with that little varnish which they usually appear in from the Mouths of Infidels because for the most part their frothy Wit is the principal Part of their Objection and therefore I have made Philologus talk all along in their Vein least otherways they might pretend the Argument was marred And this I hope will excuse me to those Pious Ears for those bold and Irreligious Expressions they will meet withal in the Mouth of my Deist which they must consider are not mine but theirs and to be repeated in the Person of an Infidel I hope will not appear Grating or Prophane There is one thing in the last place which I would desire the Reader 's Candor in and that is my Explication of the Mosaick Creation of the Stars a little out of the way of other Interpreters which I would let him know I do not deliver as my setled Opinion by any Dogmatical Assertion but only propound it Problematically as a possible way of accounting for the relation of Moses which destroys the Infidels charge of Impossibility and which at last I leave to the Reader 's Judgment either to receive or to reject And suppose this Hypothetical Scheme not to be exactly true which I am not very eager to contend for the cause of Religion will not suffer by it nor the Infidels reap any advantage from it This is only a Point of Philosophy and not Revelation and if there be any Errour in it I am to suffer for it and not Moses If this Hypothesis be possible it proves as much as is aimed at for any way of shewing how Moses his Account may be is a good proof against those who assert it impossible to be It is my hearty Prayer to God that these my weak endeavours may contribute something towards the abating the Prevalency of this sort of Infidelity which if they shall do I shall then reap an ample Recompence of this small Trouble and I shall be encouraged to publish the Remainder of this Discourse which is to vindicate the other parts of Christianity from the like Exceptions and Blasphemies of the Infidels THE CONTENTS of the First Part OF THE CONFERENCE RUdeness and Danger of Atheistical Discourse p. 6. Religion tho' Erroneous not to be scoffed at 11. Particulars of the whole Conference 13. Ground of Deism 16. Of the Eternity of the World Occellus Lucanus not so old as Moses 19. Answer to Ocellus's Arguments 23. The Creation of the World not like ordinary Product 32. The Dissolution not Piece-meal but Instantaneous 33. The Ridiculousness of making the World God 38. God does not change himself by new Exhibitions but his Creatures by new Productions 39. The Change of the Deity not Voluntary 40. Nor Necessary 42. Such a Changeableness contrary to the Attributes of God 44. No constat of Sphericalness of the Universe 48. That no Argument of a perpetual Motion 49. Motion of Bodies in Contigguity with Bodies not infinite 50. Sphericalness does not infer infinity of Duration 52. Arguments against the Eternity of the World 53. Argument the First from the Nature of Petrification 54. Argument the Second from the sinking of Hills 58. No new Hills raised which are considerable 62. Physico Theol. Discourses concerning the Chaos c 63. Argument Third from the Increase of Mankind 66. The World never depopulated by Plagues 70. Remarks upon the most remarkable Pestilences 71. Essay of the Multiplication of Mankind 73. The probable Number of Men in the World 75. The World Increased more formerly than now 77. This proved by Scripture and Reason 79. Argument Fourth from History and the late Invention of Arts. 80. Mo considerable Arts lost and revived again 85. Mankind could not as the Theists pretend have been without Writing from all Eternity 87. The Progress in the Art of Writing and the no extraordinary Difficulty in that Invention 88. Excessive Computations no Argument of the Eternity of the World 94. Of the Mosaical Account of the Creation Answer to the Argument from the late
THEIST PART I. Credentius Philologus CRedentius was a Gentleman descended from a very Ancient and Honourable Family whose Father had left him a very plentiful Estate and what was yet a greater Token of his Kindness had given him a Vertuous and Learned Education so that by his good Genius and hard Study he was accomplished beyond the generality of Persons of his Birth to defend the Doctrines of his Religion which he did with so much sincerity profess Now this Gentleman for the privacy of his studies and to gratify his Love to Retirement had withdrawn from the Noise of the Town which he seldom frequented and never liked and had for a great while kept close to a Country House of his not far from the City which lay at such a convenient Distance from the Town whereby he could enjoy the Converse of those few Friends he delighted in and was freed from the Visits of others who he thought would be apt to give Interruption to his more desired Studies Besides this he had something more particularly observable in his Temper that he never endeavoured to establish any strict Friendship with the Gentlemen about him but only took care to maintain such a civil Correspondence with them as might take off all Imputation of Moroseness and Ill-Neighbourhood Of these Acquaintance Philologus was one a Gentleman of fine Parts and very polite Learning that hated the Town as much and Credentius as was as great a Lover of Books and Solitude To this Gentleman Credentius had a liking beyond the rest of his Neighbours not upon account of his Principles but his learned and diverting Conversation and with whom he was wont to enjoy a great deal of entertaining Discourse when the talk of the other Company was running upon Dogs and Horses Philologus comes one Afternoon to pay a Visit to Credentius whom he finds in his study among a very large and choice Collection of Books in most Arts and Sciences which he had procured for himself with no inconsiderable charge For he had taken care to be provided not only with all History both Ancient and Modern and with a Collection of Classick and Law-Books but was also furnished with all the Fathers and Councils of the best Editions with a variety of the Bibles Criticks and Commentators on the Scripture and with a considerable number of the best Critical Casuistical and Controversial Divines By reason of this he was very serviceable to his Neighbouring Clergy by giving them leave oftentimes to study there and by freely lending them such Books which their circumstances would not allow them to purchase Philologus entring familiarly upon him as he was wont to do sees him busy in writing something out of a Volume of St. Chrysostom's Works whilst the other Volumes lay by him Dear Sir says he I am glad to see you What You are upon securing your Credo I see you are drawing out from thence some Detatchments to make good some weak place or other in it Credentius was rising up to make his Complement and to bid him Welcome but Philologus running to him stops him saying he should not stir till he had made an end of his Muster-Roll of Quotations as he called it that he did not come to give him disturbance but that he would wait his leasure till he had done and that in the mean time he would talk a word or two likewise with the old Constantinopolitan Bishop Credentius after some pressing accepts the offer who when he had transcribed what he designed he thus addresses himself to Philologus Credentius Well Sir I suppose you are weary of this old Father by this time for your Palate does not serve you for such grave Writers come we will go down and take a Glass which will relish better Philologus In good truth Sir this old Gentlemen is very good Company I did not think these grey beards had had so much Wit I protest here is a vein of fine Reasoning and neat Language honest John would have made something of it if he had had the luck but to have lighted upon a better subject had he but made Speeches at the Areopagus or the Forum he might have made as good a figure as Demosthenes or Aeschines but as for Faith and Hope they are deadly dull subjects to play the Orator upon Cred. How Sir What can be a better subject than the great Creator of all things his Eternal Son his Bounty and Mercy the wonderful mazes and wise contrivances of his Providence the Miracles and Sufferings of our Blessed Saviour the Peace of a good Conscience and the Joys of another World Are not these think you as noble Themes as the little squabbles of Landlords and Tenants and the putting cases between Caius and Titius Phil. 'T is true these are fine golden Tales to those whose Throats are wide enough to swallow them but they lie cross mine presently I am sick of a Chapter in Mark before it is half done for I must needs tell you nothing lies so hard upon my stomach as a Miracle or a Revelation My Nurse was a Popish Irish Woman and she told me such strange stories of the Patricks the Bridgets and the Vrsula's that I took such a surfeit before I was eight years old that I never much cared for that sacred food since After I grew up it is true I have been more conversant in Bibles than in Legends but I find I shall be converted by both alike for I have a Budget full of Exceptions against the whole story there seems to be so much of the Sir Bevis in all the Relations for in almost every page I meet with somewhat which turns my stomach from Genesis to the Revelations What a work do we make with Moses and the Prophets with Christ and the Apostles Cred. Rudeness and danger of Atheistical Discourse For Gods sake Sir hold If Religion has no Tie upon you let Civility restrain you from this Talk although you should not it may be be Christian enough yet you are too much a Gentleman to abuse but my Friend before me and I think I may bespeak of you as much Civility to my Saviour which I am sure I have more Reason for Such Discourse as this may be very edifying in a Club of you Wits but as much as you laugh at my Credo's I want Faith to think my self secure amongst those that talk after this rate You Gentlemen ought to be very secure of your Hand and your House too let me tell you before you venture to talk thus I think my House is none of the slenderest built and I take my Walls to be proof against any thing but Blasphemy but when Men make sport with God and Religion I am afraid of the Rafters cracking and the Bricks tumbling about my Ears Therefore pray Sir let us go down and talk of something else Phil. Well Sir I see you want not Zeal and I am sorry I should want good Manners I beg your pardon heartly
The Particulars of the Conference The Account of the Creation which Moses gives us 2. The Fall of Man presently after that Creation 3. His Redemption from the Calamities of that Fall by Jesus Christ And lastly The Truth of the Scripture upon whose Authority all this rests But if I have good reason to believe that the World was long before this pretended Creation that there are a great many Contradictions and Improbabilities in Moses his Relation of it that there is no likelihood of such a Lapse of Mankind nor is there need of any such Redemption nor that the Books which are brought to prove all this are of that Divine Authority they pretend to you may then very well conclude that I have something more to say against your Religion than some few flourishes of Wit and gay Periods which your Clergy would make you believe is all that Men of my Perswasion have to encounter it Nay I will add further if you can satisfy me in these Particulars and clear up these Difficulties I will profess Christianity to Morrow for it is not my Vices but my Objections as I told you which hinder me from joining Communion with you and I do not know but that I may live as vertuously and honestly as those who go so gravely to Church with black Caps and broad Bibles And therefore if you please Credentius we will take a Walk in your Garden and talk over a Point or two of this Subject for the Weather is too hot either to drink or to stay within Cred. I did not think Philologus to entertain you after this Philosophical Manner But pray Sir how long have you been in love with the Peripatum I thought you were too much of Epicurus his Party to take Example after Aristotle's Sect. I should think some other jolly Philosopher were a more agreeable Pattern for you to take than those stingy Speculatists who give their Friends a Walk to save their Wine But if it is resolved that you and I must enter the Lists of a Disputation this Evening I think it will not be inconvenient to walk abroad for if we shall grow too warm there we shall have Air to cool us And so Sir at your pleasure I follow Phil. This delicate Walk of Orange Trees Credentius puts me in mind of your Paradise and consequently of the Mosaick Creation which is the first point which you and I must clear up But I would not have you think that I find fault with this account because I am perswaded with Epicurus that the World was not made by God For Epicurus was a Blockhead to entertain such a silly thought as this and no Man of common sense that ever thought could be of his Opinion I am as impatient as you can be at the ridiculousness of his Philosophy for his Doctrine of the Eternity the weight and falling of Atoms is but a System of Nonsense For those weighty Atoms of his would be always falling and falling through the infinite space and would never be able to meet together to frame a World and one Atom could be no more able to join with another than the Hind-wheel can overtake the foremost And as for that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Side-Motion which was afterwards added I look upon to be but a pitiful Botch to patch up this foolish Hypothesis I am fully satisfied that the World had its Origin from a Wise or Powerful Being the first Cause of all things from whose Eternal Womb all things have sprung up and whose Power and Goodness still preserves the World in the same state in which it always was So that I espy two principal faults in the account of the Mosaick Creation The Ground of Theism The first is Because he gives the World too late a being it having a subsistence infinite Ages before he says it had the second is That supposing the World was Created in Time and at the time he supposes his account is so extravagant that it cannot satisfy any reasonable man And these two points in the first place I think I shall be able to make out Cred. Well! Sir I see you have ranged your Exceptions very Methodically You are resolved to find me work enough before you have done for these Heads I presume are teeming with an abundance of Objections so that you will make me run through a Body of Divinity before I have answered them all For my part I must maintain the ground of Christianity as well as I can and I am sorry it is like to suffer so much by so ill a Defender But God be thanked I have a good Cause to set against your Wit and Parts for I take every thing which can be said against our Religion to be so inconsiderable that very weak Parts and a slender stock of Learning will be able to encounter the most doughty Arguments which can be urged against it And therefore will you be pleased to proceed upon your first Head Of the Eternity of the World Phil. Why Sir the first thing I have to say against the History of the Creation as it is related by Moses is that he makes the World to begin but between five and six Thousand years ago when it is demonstrable it has continued from all Eternity And this has been the Doctrine of the wisest Philosophers heretofore For to omit Aristotle and others of later date I find Ocellus Lucanus * Oracles of Reason p. 216. who was almost cotemporary with Moses if not before him to have been of this Opinion and he is so admirable a Philosopher that in a Question of this nature I would take his word before that of the Jewish Lawgiver But his Book of the Nature of the Vniverse which is still extant gives us so many demonstrative Arguments of the Truth of this Opinion that we need go no farther than that Excellent Treatise to confute the History of the Creation Cred. But before you proceed give me leave to remind you of a very great Errour in asserting that Ocellus the Author of that Treatise was Precedent or any thing nigh Co-temporary with Moses But supposing that Treatise to be wrote by Ocellus Lucanus that ancient Pythagorean there was no less than eleven hundred years distance between his Writing and Moses his For say that Moses wrote ten Years after the Israelites coming out of Egypt which was An. Mundi 2470. the Book of the Creation will then be wrote An. Mundi 2480 but I will make it appear that Ocellus Lucanus wrote but much about the year of the World 3580. which is eleven hundred years later Now Ocellus Lucanus lived much about the time when Plato wrote or perhaps a little before being both Cotemporaries but Ocellus the elder Man For Plato's School was in its most flourishing Condition in the 102 Olympiad when he was about fifty years old Diog. L●● Vit. Plat. but he was born as Laertius informs us from Apollodorus's Chronicks in the 88th Olympiad
i. e. about An. Mundi 3525 and it is as plain that Ocellus lived much about the same time For Laertius in the Life of Archytas gives us two Letters between Archytas and Plato about Ocellus who was lately Dead Wherein Archytas tells Plato that he had undertook the Business of Publishing some Posthumous Pieces of Ocellas and upon that account had been with the Family of the Lucani and particularly with Ocellus his Grand-Children and had obtained the Papers of them viz. his Book of Laws of Monarchy of Sanctity of the Generation of the Vniverse and adds that he will send the other Pieces to him as soon as they should be found To which Plato answers that this was a very acceptable present that he very much admired the Writer and that he was worthy of that most ancient descent from the Trojans Now if Ocellus were so ancient a Writer as Moses how should Plato never have seen his Books before How should it come into his Head to put Archytas upon search after Books which were wrote eleven hundred Years before Or how could they be supposed to have lain dormant in the Family for so many Ages If he had been as old as Moses Plato would never have mentioned his most ancient Descent from the Trojans for Moses lived long before those Trojan Ancestors were born But the Letter is express that Archytas had this Book from his Grand-Children which were probably his Heirs and who had the right of disposal of his Papers when he was Dead So that it appears that this Ocellus was so far from being a Writer as old as Moses that he was but a late Grecian Writer For not to mention Orpheus Homer and Hesiod who lived six or seven Centuries before most of the Greek Books which are most commonly read were much Ancienter than this Author All the celebrated Dramatical Poets Aristophanes Aeschylus Euripides Sophocles all the Lyrick ones Stesichorus Alcaeus Pindar Sappho Simonides Anacreon and other moral Poets Ancienter than these Tyrtaeus Theognis Phocylides besides the famous Historians Herodotus and Thucydides But in respect of the Jewish Books he was but a writer of yesterday for he was so far from being able to vie with Moses for Antiquity that the very last Writer of the Old Testament wrote before him for the Canon was compleated and the Prophecies sealed up in Malachy who wrote almost 40 years before this Writer For Malachy flourished in the first year of Artaxerxes Mnemon and Ocellus not till about the 35th So that we have proved not only Moses but the whole Bible to be ancienter than this Old Writer But after all I believe I can make it appear that this Book which you mention is not so ancient as the Author it lays claim to but was composed by some modern in imitation of that Ancient piece of Ocellus's which Archytas in his letter mentions For there are some manifest marks which make it appear that it is a piece of much later date than Ocellus Lucanus 1. For it is known to all that the Ancient Pythagoreans wrote always in the Dorick Dialect as appears by the works or fragments yet exstant of Timaeus Locrus c. But this Treatise is wrote in common Greek nay it is evident that Ocellus himself wrote in Dorick Stob. Ecl. Phys Lib. 1. Cap. 16. as does appear from what is quoted from him by Stobaeus in his Ecloges viz. a fragment out of his Book of Laws which Archytas says he wrote In which fragment 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. shews plainly the Dialect in which this Author wrote 2ly We may observe that the Author of this Piece was an Aristotelian Philosopher who goes all along upon Aristotle's Principles viz. The four Elements talks much of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the other Elementary qualities of the Transmutation of the Elements of Antiperistasis c. almost in the very words of Aristotle in his Books of Natural Auscultation So that instead of being as old as Moses 't is probable he may not be much older than Simplicius or Philoponus Phil. Let this be as it will the weight of the Arguments he produces does not depend upon the Antiquity of the Author Ocell §. 2. Or. Reas p. 210. and those I am sure are too strong to be baffled by a little Criticism and Chronology The sum of his first Argument is this If the World or Vniverse be generated or had a beginning 't is generated out of Nothing or Something But all Men agree that Nothing can be produced from Nothing To say it was produced out of Something is as unreasonable for that something must be a part of the Vniverse or the Whole Vniverse because there is nothing besides the Vniverse and that would be to make a thing produced out of it self which is of all the most palpable Contradiction Cred. I know this Doctrine of the World 's being formed out of Nothing sate so cross in Epicurus his Brains Answ to Ocellus his I. Argument that it set him upon the sent of his Atheistical Opinions to get rid of it For as the story tells us when he heard a Grammarian whom he was Scholar to explaining those famous Verses of Hesiod in his Theogonia Sext. Empir cont Math. Lib. 9. Diog. Laert. vit Epic. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chaos was first form'd by th' Eternal Mind Next the wide Earth the Seat of every kind He very pertly asked if the Earth was made out of the Chaos what the Chaos was made out of At which question the Grammarian being confounded made answer that it was not his Province to teach such things but that of the Philosophers With this Answer Epicurus being unsatisfied he left the Grammarian and betook himself to the study of Philosophy But notwithstanding this I cannot see any thing in this Philosophical Axiom Ex nihilo nil fit that should any ways make against God's Creation of the World out of nothing Indeed this has been an Axiom in the mouths of Philosophers of all sorts the Aristotelian and Pythagorean Platonist and Stoick but then a great many of them meant no more by it than that it has no place in natural productions but that it ought not to be extended to the primary production of things For Empedocles his Verses quoted by Plutarch and Aristotle are the most ancient Piece in the Graecian Philosophy where this Axiom is urged and he only makes use of it to prove that matter is not produced in the Generation of Things nor destroyed in their Corruption 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Children in Knowledge vainly to suppose That all that 's Born from Nothing has arose Or when in Death the scatter'd parts do flie To think that Ought does into Nothing die And we find that the Corpuscularian Philosophers who made Atoms the first Principles of things were those that did chiefly make use of this Axiom to confute the Doctrines of Forms and substantial