out of the pure word They knew that euery visible Church might did erre in somewhat Onely it meaneth that a visible Church might not erre in any poinct that of necessitie is requisite as their wordes expresse It resteth then that you shew that the pure word is not preached in our assemblies by law sufficiently to saluation which yet you doe not nor can doe Therefore you say nothing For I for my part know well that our Churches faile from the pure word in sundrie lesser points which though they be errours yet are they not Fundamentall neither doe they in their ovvne nature abolish from Christ Thirdlie the Article hath according to Christes ordinance But you saye that we preach in strange and false functions such as are not Christes ordinances This is false too Our ordinarie Preachers are true Pastours as touching the substance of Pastorall calling as I haue often aunswered you albeit they haue a wrong ordination from the Prelacie See my defence of this poinct as also of that concerning the confusion of our people in my other writing long since deliuered to you touching the †In my aunswer to the 1. reason of that treatise following in the end of this booke comparing of the condition of a Ministerie with Mariadge Now this ordinance of Christ to haue a true Pastor to a faithfull people is sufficient for the being of a true Church though not for the perfection of it Contrarie to the which you haue nothing but words Lastlie the Article requireth due administration of Sacraments But our practize say you herein is not due or intier because there concurre diuers corruptions withall as stinted prayers exhortations Epistles Gospels Crossing in Baptisme c. I answere all these simplie of them selues doe not abolishe our Sacraments If you thinke they doe say so and you shal be refuted If nay Then this very Article signifieth so much That corruptions and faultes might be in the Sacraments but nothing amisse that of necessitie is requisite Novve all these 4. poinctes I haue omitted say you True in wordes I haue but in sence I expresse them all and euery one when for breuities sake I comprehended all in this generall clause of this Article according to all that is of necessitie requisite How say you haue I not herein conteyned and signified all these your exceptions and that accordinge to the meaning of the Article If I haue as it is most true then doe you vnconscionablie abuse me in saying I pretended to repeate our description in the Article and yet leaue out diuers perticulars of speciall moment And let this therefore be first obserued I haue omitted nothing materiall in that Article Yea let this be here noted that in all this you haue moste fondlie abused your penne and tounge Yet will you still demaund how our practise agreeth with our profession in that 19. Article Still I answer you with that similitude of a foolish and importinate Tēnaunt against his Landlord If I haue held possession and my aunestors before my time out of minde indeed the King laying claime to it hee may call for my euidence because * Time prescribeth not against the Prince nullum tempus occurrit Regi But against my fellow subiects possession inheritance so longe without interruption is of it selfe euidence in lawe good enough except the plaintif can bring better to the contrary Therefore it were absurd and sencelesse before any Iudge in England for a Tenaunt to put such a Landlord to shew his euidence in such a case Euen so as absurd it is for you seeing at first you were of vs and now are gone out from vs to put vs to proue our selues to be such as heretofore you neuer doubted of If now you doubt and contradict it shew you your reason as better euidence or els all men wil condempne your folly Where you put me to proue all our offices of the Hyerarchie their ceremonies c. What needeth it I neuer tooke it vpon me Except first you doe shew that these corruptions all or any of them absolutely in their own nature doe abolish vs all cleane from Christ make vs vnpossible to be saued which vntill you doe still I say I see not any peece of reason in all these your words And lastly where you say it is an impudent vntruth that I say we see not that any thing necessarie is wanting in our Church And to this end you quote to conuince me The Admonition T. C. his Replies Demonstration Declaration and the Defence of Discipline c. This is indeed too bold an vntrueth a wilfull peruerting of your allegations None of all these doe graunt any thing to be wanting with vs that is necessary to the being of a Church simply nor to the being of a true Ministery or Sacraments But onely to their well and conuenient being How honest then are you to falsifie your own witnesses so openly Maister Iohnsons 2. Exception against the former Assumption with Maister Iacobs Replies to the same EXCEPTION 2. SEcondly let them tell vs whether they hold professe Iesus Christ to be the Prophet Priest and King of his Church to be obeyed in his own ordinance onely and in no other And if they doe then let them shew vs how their practize agreeth with this profession H. JACOB his 1. Reply to the 2. Excep TO this Second Exception That Christ is our Prophet Priest King I aunswere The booke of Articles our Ministers now and Congregations generally doe hold and professe the same our practize being answerable likewise thervnto euen as before time Maister Cranmer Ridley Latimer and such like with their Congregations did then viz. That Christ is our Prophet Priest and King and to be obeyed in his own ordinances onely and in no other This I say we generally professe and practize Howbeit this note with all we hold Christs ordinance to be of two sortes written or vnwritten the first necessary the second arbitrary The firste touching doctrine that is touching faith and the inward opinion only such as these The doctrine of God his Nature his Persons his Properties of the Messias Christ Iesus of Iustification of Sanctification of the Resurection c. Wherein standeth the †1. Cor. 3.12.23 foundation of sauing faith All these must be in the writen word or els to bee none of Christes The second touching outward orders in the Church which are truly called accounted Christs own also although particularly deuised and appoincted by the Church whom Christ hath authorized therevnto euen as it shal be thought most fit and profitable for the present times places and persons such we hold all outward gouernement and ceremonies to bee because they be not simply of the foundation neither written nor certen nor perpetuall but at the arbitrarie appoinctment of the Church and Magistrate and yet to be Christes owne neuerthelesse who hath left this libertie for the Church to vse Thus we hold
own description aforesaid Their Ministers all of them are either Prelates Priestes or Deacons which amongst them is a step to the Priesthood none of which Christ hath ordeyned in his Testament for the worke of his ministerie Their people are not separated from the world but stande in confusion with it and in subiection to the Antichristian Prelates and Prelacie See Iohn 15.19 17.14.16 1. Iohn 4.5 6 Act. 2.40 and 19.9 Reuel 18.4 14.9 And therefore can not be deemed a true church of God the people of Christ vnto whom in such estate the Sacraments which are seales of the couenant of grace doe apperteyne and may be administred Finally their administration is acçording to the inuentions and precepts of man with stinted prayers exhortations Epistles and Gospels and besides those in Baptisme crossing on the forehead questions to the infant in the Lords supper translating and vsing out of the Masse booke other wordes then the wordes of Christes institution and such like as may bee seene at large in their booke of common prayer which is picked and culled out of the Masse booke full of all abominations as “ Admonitiō to the Parlament second treatis themselues haue published heretofore These things we haue ben forced thus to mention at large both because they twice demaund as if they knewe not themselues wherein their practise is contrarie to that description aforesaid and because they blush not to affirme that all the Christian world seeth and confesseth their practize to be aggreeable to their profeession in that booke Whereas the contrarie is most true Touching which what themselues haue heretofore written to the contrarie See in the Admonitions to the Parleament Replyes of T. C. against D. Whitguift Demonstration of Discipline c And what the reformed Churches professe to the contrarie see in the Frenche Belgicke and Heluetian Churches and in the Harmonie of cōfessions Sect. 10. 11. which would be too long to set downe at large in this place Neither is it needfull seeing it is most euident in the books and places alleadged whether we referre the Reader Thus also it appeared what iust cause wee had to put them to proue their assemblies to be such as themselues discribe visible Churches to bee Which seing they haue not yet done and seing their practice is contrarie to their profession as now at their request we haue shewed in the perticulers aforesaid If they still bee minded as before wee doe also still aske where and what are their proofes touching the perticulers mentioned in their owne description of a visible Church Their similitude of a Landlord and Tennaunt is against themselues so wortthy and Clercklike is their reply If any haue vsurped or otherwise made a false clame neuer so long to a piece of lād or other possession may they not iustly be called vpon to shew their title bring fourth their euidence Let the Iudges giuē sentence If I deny their clame and title to be such let him shew their euidence from the Apostles writinges Let vs from thence see their euidence for the offices of Archbs. Lordbs Suffraganas Archdeacons Chauncelers Commissaries Officials Priests Parsons Vicars Cnraets c For their entrance into their Offices according to their Cannons and Booke of ordering Priestes and Deacons and of consecrating Archbishops and Bishops For their administration by their stinted imposed Liturgy and by their Popish Cannons Officers and proceedings For their Churching of women praying ouer the dead Holy-dayes to Saints and Angels Fastes on their Eaues c. For their maintenance by Tythes Chrisomes Offerings c. For their confused communion of all sortes of people though neuer so wicked in the body of their Church c. Let them I say shewe vs euidence for those from the Apostles writinges if they deny their claime to bee such as wee haue noted Otherwise if they †Isay 8.20 speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them neither any right to that they challendge Where they say vve held part of their possession vvith thē heretofore If they meane that we with them receiued the beastes marke and drunke of the cup of Babels abominations we deny it not but acknowledge Gods mercy that passing ouer our sinnes hath giuen vs grace and strength at his “ Reue. 18.4 2 Cor. 6.17 18 Actes 2.4 commaundement to forsake that way of Antichrist and to come out of that spirituall Babilon to saluation of our soules which mercy wee wish also vnto these men that so being saued from this froward generatiō they may become the sonnes and daughters of the Lord almighty in Christ our Sauiour Touching their Article Preaching Sacraments Ministration c. enough is said before Onely where they say they see not themselues wherin they faile touching Preaching or Sacramēts in things necessary It is too impudent vntruth as their * Admonition to the Parliament T. C. his replies in defence thereof Demonstratiō of discipline Declaration defence of Ecclesiastical discipline c. former writtings doe and will alwayes testifie to their faces which wee will not stand here to relate That shall suffice which we haue touched before which till it bee aunswered it will be found that our first exception hath both reason and weight in it whatsoeuerthey doe or can pretend to the contrarie H. IACOB his 2. Reply to the 1. Excep HEre is much adoe to no purpose You obserue 4. pointes in our Article omitted by mee vvherein our practize is contrarie to our profession Firste our Article requireth a visible Church to bee an assembly of faithfull men But our assemblies say you are not so This is false they are so you shall neuer proue in vs the contrarie more then appeareth was in the Church of the Iewes both Auncient and in the time of Christ And yet they then were the true Church As I haue elswhere in this Booke sufficiently proued and shewed against you That which you bring of D. Whitgift and other writers amongst vs of the prophanesse of many in our assemblies you depraue their meaninges vtterlie for though they graunt verie many such to be amongst vs yet they say not that all our assemblies are such nor our whole assemblies Neither denie they our assemblies to be companies of faithfull men or vtterly to be separated from Nay the contrarie doe they euen that onely they ought to be reformed Therefore you too grossely abuse them Secondly The Article requireth the pure worde of God to be preached But say you the Apocrypha books reading of Homilies other errors are allowed in our practize Yea surely in our professiō too as your selfe obserueth in the book of Artic. yet then our profession practise differ not as you charg our Churches But these poinctes are not the pure word of God Neither doth the Article meane that in a visible church euery iot title both of our professiō practize must needs be
these be most vnnaturall additions and very manie The like doe I affirme of these externall corruptions in the Church Which my sentences you goe not about to refute but onelie with wordes with bare yea and nay and no more Mr Iohnsons I. REASON against the former Assumption with Mr Iacobs Replies to the same Hauing before noted 3. Exceptions out of their doctrine and booke alleadged we nowe proceede to shewe the weakenes of their Assumption aforesaid by these 9. Reasons following REASON I. THat which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather can not make a true Christian 2 Cor. 6.14 15 16. with Ezech. 43.8 and 2. Kings 17.33 34 40 41. Bvt that doth the doctrine and booke alleadged as may be seene by comparing the 35. and 36. Articles with the rest And furthermore it appeareth both by their profession which is to be seene in their booke of Cannons set foorth anno 1571. and in other their Articles Jniunctions Aduertisements c. published at other tymes and by their practize also which is to be seene in their Ministerie Worship and Church gouernement euen to this day Therefore c. H. IACOB his 1. Reply to the 1. Reason THis your first Reason is thus That which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather can not make a true Christian But that doth this Booke Ergo c. I say you must mende your vnproper speache that Christ and Antichrist is there ioyned togeather you meane Christ and some outward ceremonies and orders of Antichrist then so speake and say not Christ and Antichrist simply Which things yet we thinke to be Christes own as we * Pag. 12. 18. 19. shewed in the Second Exception before Therefore this reason is answered as the last Exception before The Swanne is blacke of his bill Ergo the Swan is blacke and my brother hath a wodden legge Therfore my brother is a wodden man So here this booke ioyneth Christ and some orders of Antichrist Therefore it ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather which are most fonde conclusions Furthermore the scriptures alleadged 2 Cor. 6. Ezek 43. 2. Kings 17. are wholy mismatched the ioyning there forbidden is vnto such idolatrie as can not stande by any meanes with Christian faith and breaketh most directlie the First commandment Our transgression your selues do iudge to be but against the Second and such as hath stood and may stand togeather with true faith as in Maister Cranmer c. * Namely the Idolaters in those places spoken of They did not so much as professe the written lawe to be their rule neither for outwarde orders nor their inward doctrines of faith But your selues knowe we professe and practise that namely so as is shewed before in the Seconde “ Pag. 11. 1. 18. Exception Therfore to applie those scriptures in this vnto vs is your great sinne euen against the third Commaundment which is your common custome as all doe see and pitie viz. To take the name of God in vaine by misusing his worde F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 1. Reason HIs answere here is First concerning the Proposition of this reason then concerning the Assumption Concerning the Proposition First he saith Our speach is vnproper that Christ and Antichrist is there amongst them ioyned togeather Secondly he taketh vpō him to expound our words and meaning to be thus Christ and some outward ceremonies and orders of Antichrist To this we answere First that it is meete that we not he expound our owne meaning whiche togeather with the proprietie of the speech will afterwards appeare in our defence of the Assumption against his answere thereto His answere therefore concerning the Assumption is this First That the things among them which we charg to be of Antichrist they thinke to be Christes owne For proofe whereof here ferreth vs to his answere to our Second exception going before whether also we referre the Reader for answere to him againe Secondly forgetting him selfe he graunteth that in deed they be orders of Antichrist yet that they are but as the blacknes of the Swannes bill to the rest of the body Well then by his owne confession they are of Antichrist and therefore not Christes owne as before he saide and laboured to prooue Thus at once both he contradicteth him selfe and ouerthroweth that which he answered * Pag. 1◠before to our Second exception This were sufficient to manifest their deceiptfull and euill dealing But that it may more fullie appeare specially seeing bee would dazell the peoples eyes with these mincing wordes of some outward ceremonies orders of Antichrist comparing them with the blacknes of the swans bill as if they were but a fewe and of small moment Therefore will we reckon vp some of their Antichristian enormities and abhominations for it vere infinite to nomber them all And then let the Reader iudge of his inswere and their estate whether it be not more like the blacke Rauen with a white bill then the white Swanne with a blacke Sorie we are that we should thus trouble the Reader or our selues specially considering that alreadie we haue mencioned diuers of the particulars following But seeing we are constreyned herevnto by their slie and colourable answere in this place therefore can we not but doe it for the clearer manifestation of the trueth better discouering of their deceiptfulnes In which respects we intreate the Reader also to take in good parte and duely to weigh the repetition and recapitulation following Antichristian abominations yet reteyned in England 1 The cōfusion of al sortes of people in the bodye of their Church euen the most polluted and their seede beeing members thereof 2 The offices and callinges of Arch L. Bishops 3 Lord Bishops 4 Suffragans 5 Prelates Chauncellours 6 Deanes 7 Subdeanes 8 Prebendaries 9 Cannons 10 Petty cannons 11 Chaunters 12 Virgerers 13 Pistlers 14 Gospellers 15 Queristers men and boyes 16 Organistes 17 Organ Flowers 18 Arch deacons 19 Subdeacons 20 Deacons or half priests 21 Priestes 22 Parsons 23 Vicars 24 Curates 25 Vagrant Mercinarie Preachers 26 Churchwardens 27 Clerkes and Sexions 28 Chaplaynes 29 Doctors of Diuinitie 30 Bachelours of Diuini 31 Doctors and 32 Proctors in the Prelates courtes 33 Commissaries 34 Officialls 35 Registers 36 Summoners with the rest of that Antichristian and viperous generation 37 Their Ministration of the word Sacramentes gouernment of their church by voriue of the offices aforesaid 38 The titles of Primate Metropolitane Lordes grace Lordship c. ascribed to the Prelates 39 The inferior Prelates swearing obedience to the Metropoliticall seas of Cāturburie York 40 The inferiour Ministers when they enter into the Ministerie promising obedience to the prelats their ordināces and when they are inducted to benefices confirminge it with their oath 41 The Deacons and Priests presentations to a Lorde Bishoppe by an Archdeacon 42 Their receyuing of orders of the Prelates or their Suffraganes 43 Their Pontificall or Booke of consecratinge Bishops and of ordering Priestes Deacons taken
Apostle to be separated from neither can in that case by the word of God be deemed true Christians H. IACOB his 1. Reply to the 9. Reason THis your last Reason is Separat frō thē that teach otherwise then the truth 1 Tim. 6 3 4 5. We holding those Articles doe teach diuerse thinges in the Hyerarchie c. that be otherwise then is truth Therefore we must be separated from and consequently we are no true Christians This is a falacy also Separate from such Ergo separate wholy See my 1. and 2. Reply afore to the third Exception also the Answer to the two last Reasons of all the 7. and 8. We graunt therefore so farr forth as we hold otherwise then trueth so farr separate from vs but not any farther at all not wholly or absolutly And so the Apostle heere meaneth Wherefore briefly Because you proue vs not wholy to deny the trueth nor fundamentally nor obstinatly peruersly and desperatly any parte thereof like those Iewes Act. 19.8 whom Paul separated from which he did not from all other Iewes Act. 13.14 and 16.3 and 21.23 24 26. and 3.1 Therefore you ought not wholy to separate from vs Neither to condemne vs wholy as abolished from Christ no more then Maister Cranmer and Ridley were with their Congregations in King Edwards time And thus our Assumption in the beginning standeth firme The doctrine in the booke of Articles is sufficient to make a true Christian The contrarie whereof is such a Paradox Conclusion as hath not bene heard of till this day All reformed Churches in Europe doe and haue alwayes held otherwise Themselues * Mai. Barrow Mai. Penry Mai. Iohnson heretofore haue acknowledged and professed it The holy Martirs that liued in King Edwardes dayes and died in Queene Maries dayes must bee otherwise cut of from Christ who were true Christians by vertue of this doctrine and the practice thereof or verily not at all But now it is wonder what extreame passion hath driuen them to this deniall Surely they see that it conuinceth flatly as indeed it doth their peremptorie separation And therefore rather then they would seeme to haue erred in so mayne poinct wee cannot but thinke that meere desperatnes hath driuen them to it Neuerthelesse all this we leaue to the Lorde with the iudgment thereof who hath the hearts of all men in his hand not only to search the seacrets but also to turne and dispose them euen as it pleaseth him F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 9. Reason VNto our Nineth Reason aforesaide he answereth That it is a Fallacy separate from such Ergo separate wholy But howe shewes he any fallacie to be in our Reason Hee bids vs see his answere aboue to our third Exception also his answeres to the two last Reasons of all Well we haue seene them and finde nothing there but against him self as there hath bene shewed So this Reason then as the rest also still standes vnanswered and stronge against them And that we may not doubt but him selfe also seeth it to be so how soeuer he seemeth to pleade to the contrarie before therefore nowe he graunteth it and so yeeldes vs the cause both in expresse wordes and by not defending the 17. poinctes of false doctrine wherewith they were charged neither their owne Cannons Articles Iniunctions c. alleadged against them In expresse wordes whē he sayth they graunt that so farr foorth as they holde otherwise then trueth so farre we may and ought to separat from them Loe here what the euidence of the trueth against which they haue struggeled so longe hath now at length drawne from them The trueth is mighty and preuayleth But he addeth that we must not separate from them any further then as before not wholy or absoluteiy and so saieth he the Apostle “ 1. Tim. 3.3 here meaneth Well but let vs here knowe what this mā him self meaneth hereby If he meane that we must not for their other defectiō forsake the truthes which they holde We answere that we doe it not as him selfe knoweth and in this sence also his meaning should come nothing neare the Apostles meaning Themselues say they haue separated from the Papists yet he neither ean nor will say that they haue forsaken the “ As that ther is a God that there is three persons in the Godhead that Iesus Christ is the Sauiour of the worlde that God made heauen and earth that there shal be a resurrection of the iust and vniust truthes which the papistes held notwithstanding that they haue made separation from them But if he meane that because of the truthes which they professe therefore we should not separate from them then First he contradicteth him selfe hauing graunted that we must separate from them so far foorth as they hold otherwise then trueth Secondly he condemneth their owne practze in their separation from the Papistes notwithstanding the truthes they professe Thirdly in this sence also his meaning should come nothing neare the Apostles meaning Thus therefore it is euident both that there is no fallacie in our reason but that it is plaine and forceable against them And moreouer that he hath directly in expresse wordes yeelded vs the cause and acknowledged our separation from their assemblies ministerie worship c. And as he doeth this in expresse wordes so also he sheweth it in deed in that he leaueth without all defence as vnlawfull and to be separated from their Ministerie Worship and Gouuernement Ecclesiasticall the 17. poincts of false doctrine obiected against them and their Canons Articles Iniunctions c. mentioned both here and more particularly in the First and Second Reasons going before Which thing we wish the Reader well to obserue And because we are fallen againe into mention of the 17. poinctes of false doctrine to the end that the Reader may yet more see the deceitfulnes of his dealing and insufficiencie of all his answeres heere and before therefore it shall not bee yrke some to sett downe here before the Readers those 17. poinctes of false doctrine aforesaide specially seeing they are but short They are these as followeth Poinctes of false doctrine deliuered and spread abroad by the Writings Sermons and practise of the forward Preachers of the Parish assemblies of England with answeres to the same 1 That though the open notorious obstinate offenders be partakers of the Sacramentes yet neither the Sacramentes nor the people that ioyne with them are defiled thereby Which doctrine is contrarie to the trueth of God in these scriptures 1 Cor. 10 17. Hag. 2.14 15. 1 Cor. 5.6 and 10.28 2 Cor. 6.15 18. Gal. 5.9 Mat. 18.8 9 15 16 17 18 19. Exod. 12.43 Leuit. 15.4 5 6 7 31. and 11.24 and 23 45 46. and 19.17 Num. 5.2 3. and 19.21 22. Iosua 11.12 Ezra 6.21.22 Ier. 3.1 2 That the planting or reforming of Christes Church must tarrie for the Ciuill magistrate and may not otherwise be brought in by the word spirite of God
Jewes are they not therefore to be separated from So in deed he would conclude in this place But then let him tell vs if Corah Dathan and Abiram the Apostate Jewes vnder Ieroboam the Corinthians Papistes c might not alleadge some particular exception wherein they were not like to those Iewes Act. 19. Might not therefore separatiō be made from these The scripture teacheth otherwise Numb 16.25 26. 2 Chrō 11.14 2 Cor. 6.17 Reu. 18.4 Secondly cōsider the place it selfe Act. 19.9 cōpare it with their estate practise in England see if there be not now as great and iust cause to separate from thē as frō the other Are not these now hardned against the trueth Let their writings against it their imprisonning banishing and killing for it giue euidence Doe they not disobey it Let their constitution and practize be witnesse Speake they not euill of the way of God before the multitude Let the Sermons of their Ministers in the pulpit the speaches of the Prelates in their Courtes beare record Therefore saith that “ Actes 19.9 Actes 2.40 Scripture Actes 19 they are to be departed and separated from Wherevnto also may be added in this case that which Peter saith Act. 2 Saue your selues from this froward generation Thidly were he obiecteth That Paule did not separate frō all the other Iewes as he did from these Acts 19. and sheweth it by Act. 13.14 and 16.3 21 23 24 26. 3.1 we answer that the Apostles had good and iust cause so to doe For first the Jewes * Rom. 9.4 Leuit. 20.22 24 26. Luk. 1.6.8 c. were the people of God separated from the world and set in the true waand order of God Secondly * Luke 24.47 Act. 1.8 and 13.46 Christ commaunded the Apostles when he sent them to preach his Gospell throughout the worlde that they should first preach it to the Iewes Thirdlie the Iewes ministerie ceremonies being the ordinances of God him selfe and giuen in writing by Moses the man of God “ Act. 15.21 and 21.30 21 22 23 24 25. Heb. 8.5 13. 9.1 c. were therefore nowe when they should cease to be buried with honor These things considered we see the Apostles had iust cause so to doe as they did in those places mentioned But what is this to the assemblies of England which neuer yet were separated from the world nor set in the way and order of Christ but stande in the * Reue. 13.16 17. and 18 2. 2 The. 2.3 4 8 confusion and defection of Antichrist whose ministerie also and worshippe were neuer the ordinances of God But * Reue. 17.2 4 and 18.3 and 9.3 c. taken out of the whores Cup of Babilon for which likewise God neuer gaue Comaundement to goe vnto them but to “ Reue. 18.4 with 17.9 1 Tim. 6 3 5. departe from them as being daughters of the greate Babilon that mother of whoredomes and abominations of the earth Againe euen from those Iewes notwithstanding the reasons aforesaid yet when they put from them the trueth and would not receyue it the Apostles departed and separated thē selues yea and shooke off the dust of their feete against them teaching others to doe so likewise Actes 13.46 51. and 18.6 28 25 26 27 28. and 20.40 and 19.8 9. To that of Maister Cranmer Ridley c is answered before And hetherto of their generall Assumption which was this That the whole doctrine as it is professed and publiquely practised by lawe in Englande is sufficient to make a particular man a true Christian Which wee haue shewed to be vntrue both by the Exceptions and Reasons aforesaid which still stande firme against them as is manifest by this our defence Touching the conclusion And now let the godly Reader trying all things by the word of trueth iudge whether we or they holde Paradoxes Touching that he saith of the reformed Churches he is deceyued if he thinke they allowe their present estate and church constitution Both their publique profession and practise witnesse the contrarie as wee haue declared at large in “ In the answers of Ma. Carthwrights reasons of Maist Hildersams letter c. other treatises which yet remayne vnanswered wherevnto we referre the Reader in this behalfe Where he sayth That we our selues heretofore haue acknowledged and professed it to wit their general Assumption aforesaid to be true he is also deceyued therein we haue alway * You maie speake it with shame enough testified the contrarie both by our profession and practise and were and are therefore cast into prison appoincted to exile and put to death besides many other iniuries grieuances inflicted vpon vs for this verie cause In deed we haue acknowledged and doe acknowledge that they professe diuers excellent truthes but that the whole doctrine as it is publiquelie professed and practized by law in England doeth make them in that estate true Christians neuer anie of vs that we know of did once acknowledge And therfore till he shew vs the contrarie we must needes thinke that he falsely burtheneth vs all and specially such of vs as he hath mentioned here in particular To that which he next addeth of the Martirs in Queene Maries dayes is answered already in the defence of our Seconde Exception and First Reason wherevnto may be added for more euidēce of the trueth the particular speaches testimonies of the holy Martirs them selues both then and in former tymes As of Maister Bradford who “ Actes monuments 2. vo in his conference with Peter Henth speaking of the dayes before Queene Marie saide The tyme was when the Pope was out of England but not all popery And moreouer “ In his firste speach with D. Harpsfielde Archdeacon That the scripture knoweth not any difference betweene Bishops and Ministers which men call Priestes And that the scripture speaking of Bishops can not be vnderstood of Bishops that minister not but lord it Also of Maister Hooper who held and “ Hooper on the eight commandment published that a Bishop should be Bishop but of one Citie and that till the Magistrates bring them to this poinct it shal be as possible to heare a Bishop wade godly and simply through the scripture in case of Religion as to driue a Cammell through the eye of a needle And agayne he sayth The primitiue Church had not such Bishops as be nowe a dayes And againe What blindnesse sayth he is there befell in the world that can not see this palpable yll that our Mother the holy Church had at the beginning such Bishops as did preach many godly Sermons in lesse time then our Bishops horses bee a brideling And John Bale an exile for the testimonie of Jesu writing vpon the Reuelation * Bale in his booke called The Image of both churches vpon Reu. 13.1 and 17.3 affirmeth moreouer That the names of Blasphemy written vpon the Beastes head Reuel 13. and