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A20388 The ansvveres of some brethren of the ministerie to the replyes of the ministers and professours of divinitie in Aberdeene, concerning the late convenant. Henderson, Alexander, 1583?-1646.; Dickson, David, 1583?-1663. 1638 (1638) STC 68.5; ESTC S100400 28,428 46

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Ki●…ke and Kingdome and Honour of the ●…ing If yee say 〈◊〉 Why then find you fault with our Pr●… 〈◊〉 of defending the Religion Liberties and 〈◊〉 of the Kingdome of the Kings Authoritie in defence th●…of and everie one of us of another in that cause as if it were an unlawfull combination against Authoritie 6. Whether doe yee thinke Christian Magistrates to bee of so absolute and undoubted power notwithstanding of the Promise or paction made with the Subjects at their Co●…ion or of any law made for the establishing their Religion Liberties that there is nothing left but ●…ering of Martyrd●… in the c●…se of publick 〈◊〉 of their Religion and Liberties If ye thinke that any Defence is lawfull why ●…isconstrue yee the Subscribers of the Covenant If not how can you be free of flatterie and of stirring up Princes against their loyall Subjects for such ends as yourselves know be●… We ●…lie believe that yee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thankes either of so good just a King or of so ●…uetiefull Subjects for entering within these Lists It is enough that such Questions bee agit●…ed in the Schooles and that with as great prudencie ●…s circumspectly as may bee To the tenth FIrst yee take us in our 4 Rep●… to bee the penners of the Covenant and yet will rather wrest the wordes of it to your owne meaning than receive the Interpretation thereof from us for wee prejudge not your libertie of conception of that short Confession but permit it to your selves whatsoever may bee the private meaning of some who have subscribed yet their is nothing in the late interpretation that condemneth the Articles of Pearth and Episcopacie as Popish Novations Yee may voyce reason in an Assembly as freelie concerning them and give your judgement of them without prejudice notwithstanding of your Oath according to your owne grounds as you would have done at the Assembly of Perth 2. We hope yee bee not so ignorant of the estate of the Kirke neither will wee judge so uncharitablie as to think you so corrupt that in your opinion there is no thing hath entred in the Kirke since that time designed by you beside Episcopacie and Articles of Pearth which can bee thought prejudiciall to the libertie and puritie of the Gospell To the eleaventh FIrst yee finde fault with us that wee have not upon this occasion given you that testimonie which wee owe to you of your sinceritie and professing the Trueth therefore to supplie our defects have taken an ample Testimonie to your selves of paines in Disputing in wryting and preaching against Poperie in processing of Papists and in doing all things which can bee expected from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of frequent prayer to GOD of humbling your selves before Him of your holinesse of Lyfe and Conversation c. which have made us who were desirous to heare that Testimonie rather at the mouthes of others that wee might bee no more challenged as deficient in that kynde but give unto you your deserved praise to inquyre in matters where upon if wee would believe the report of others wee heare that for all your paynes Papists and persons popishly affected are multiplyed and Papistrie increased in your towne more than in any other towne of the Kingdome and no lesse under your Ministrie than any time before since the Reformation that there be in private houses Mosses Crucifixes and other monuments of Idolatrie that yee had not manie convers from Poperie that Iesuites and Priests are countenanced there that your People at home and your Magistrates abroad complayne that yee are but too sparing of your paines in preaching and often fill your places with Novices but this wee are sparing to believe and wish that the not imploying of your Tongues and Pennes in defence of the Service booke and Canons which are so pestred with Poperie if the seedes of Romish Heresie Superstition Ido latrie and Papall tyrannie come under that censure and your willingnesse to joyne with the Kirk and Kingdome in Fasting an Humiliation had beene also Testimonies of your sinceritie against Poperie 2. The laudable meanes of preaching praying c. which wee wish may be still in all faythfulnesse used by you maye verie well agree with the renewing of our Covenant with God aod both beeiug joyned have in a short time past produced more powerfull effects to the comfort of manie thousandss than all our prayers and preaching have done for a long tyme before which testifie That as it is warranted by the Word of GOD so the motion hath proceeded from GOD. All the Arguments and subtilities that can be devised will never make a People who at this time have found GOD dwelling and working in their hearts to think the contrarie 3. The naturall inclination of people to Poperie and the perswasion of others of their disposition maye make the people to conceive other wayes of the Service booke and Canons that ere it be long they may bee brought in in a fair and legall way and therefore it is necessarie for preventing of those and other Evills of that kynde that the Subjects joyne in a Covenant both for themselves and their Posteritie To the twelfth FIrst Wee have ever preached according to our measure and have given example of Reverence to Authoritie and the LORDS Service but wee neither acknowledge the usurped authoritie of Prelates for lawfull Authoritie nor the Service Booke for the LORDS Service And therefore it was so much the more intolerable for the Prelates without Authoritie from the Kirke or Parliament to bring in the Service booke into GOD'S owne House upon the LORD' 's owne Day Which maketh it nothing strange that people zealous of the Trueth and of the Service of GOD were stirred up to oppose and wee are verie confident that those that have opposed doe beare as loyall respect to the Kings Majestie and will bee as loath to provoke him to just wrath as their Opposites are In the meane tyme why doe yee not acknowledge that the children were higher provoked to wrath by the Prelates whom yee account Reverend and holie Fathers 2. As the preservation of our owne private Possession from invasion of others belongeth to our selves under the Kings protection so the keeping of GODS House from pollution and Superstition belongeth to Authoritie to the Communitie of the Faithfull and to everie one in his owne Place and Order 3. We told you before That wee did no more allow Violence of that kind nor wee did allow the foule Aspersions of Rebellion ●…eresie Schisme Perjurie put upon the Noble-men and remnant Covenanters And where yee aske of us Why these tumults are not publickly by us condemned and rebuked Wee aske againe of you why yee did not condemne and rebuke such dealing since that it is no lesse Transgression both against the sixth and nynt Command than the other is against the sixt And whereas yee are now so peremptorie in drawing a Declaration from us answerable to that which yee have
examined in an Assembly 2. Ye call some of those novations necessarie but without warrant of that Assembly which concluded them as indifferent all the rest ye will have to bee laudable thus by progresse of time things formerly indifferent become necessarie and what was but lawfull before and had much adoe to gaine that reputation is now become laudable where yee plainely discover the cause of your unwillingnesse to subscribe not so much to bee the commandement of Authoritie as the necessitie and excellencie of the things commanded Till yee therfore change this opinion ye cannot promise forbearance neither upon our dealing nor at the commandement of Authoritie altho forbearance should serve for the peace of the Kirk Kingdome To the eight FIrst Wee remit the Reader to our Answere and your Reply which we hope shall be fouud no Confutation 2. We observe That ye have not answered our argument for our swearing the Defence of the King and his Authoritie with a specification which yee call a limitation wherin we have followed the Confession of Faith ratified in Parliament the King's Confession and Act of Parliament upon which yeewill not doe well to fasten so foule imputations and put so hard Constructions as yee doe upon us for inserting in our Covenant what they have said before us If our specification be right why censure you it If it bee wrong why fasten you not your censures upon the Fountaine from which it is derived The Loyaltie of our intentions to maintaine the Kings person and honour is fully expressed that it hath given content to those who are nearest his Majestie and wee should wrong not onely them but also the Covenant and the Subscribers thereof if wee should make new Declarations to others of greater distance who wrong both the King and them-selves in craving them 3. To doe with a doubting Conscience is a grievous sinne but to make and multiplie doubtes for hindering a good worke and to oppose against a shyning Light is no lesse grievous Ye spake before of a limitation now ye have added Precislie as if the naming of our Duetie were the excluding of all other Dueties We all by our Oath of Alleadgeance by his Majesties Lawes and by other Obligations acknowledge that wee owe many other dueties to the King which were verie impertinent to expresse in this Covenant 4. What kynd of Conference yee meane whether by word or writ we know not but while we were amongst you yee know what notice yee were pleased to to take of us and wee have no delight to resent it To the nynth FIrst Wee are ashamed to draw the Rug-saw of Contention to and fro in a continuall Reciprocation concerning the serbearance of Pearth Articles and therefore forbearing to doe so any more wee referre the Reader to our former Answeres 2. We doe not affirme that the only Reason why Kn●…eling was appointed was because all memorie of Superstition was past There be indeed other Reasons expressed in the Act but such as the authors therof may bee ashamed of as both perverting the Text. Psal. 93 as making Kneeling to bee necessarie in everie part of GOD's Worship and as giving matter to many Treatise●… proving kneeling before the Elements to be idolatrie according to the Act unto which wee now referre you but this wee say which is manifest by the Act it selfe that in the case of present Superstition or feare thereof all other Reasons had not beene forcible to enforce knee●…ing then nor can have force to continue kneeling now This feare hath beene great this yeere by past throughout the kingdome by reason of the manie Superstitions of the Service booke which it may bee yee no more acknowledge than yee doe the superstitious disposition of the people because they are not that which they were at the time of Reformation 3. Wee would heare what Malice it self can say against the words of the Protestation That it shall bee lawfull uno us to defend Religion and the King●… A●…ritie in defence thereof and everie one of 〈◊〉 of anot●… 〈◊〉 that cause of maintaining Religion and the Kings forsaid Authoritie and to appoynt and hold Meetings to that end lyke as our Proceedings have beene in themselves most necessarie and orderly meanes agreeable to the Lawes and p●…ise of this Kirk and Kingdome to be commended as Rea●… Dueties of faythfull Christians loyall Subjects and sensible members of the bodie of the Kirke and Kingdome and tend to no other ende but to the preservation of Religion and maintenance of the King's Authoritie To your Interrogator which yee seeme to propone rather to be snares to us than for satisfaction to your selves we an swere once for all in generall That if this were the opportunitie to that Disputation wee shall bee found to deny nothing unto Authoritie of that which the worde of GOD the Law of Nature and Nations the Acts of Parliament chiefe Royalists sound Divines and loyall Subj●…s give unto Kinges and Princes GOD'S Vi●… 〈◊〉 earth and that not from respect to our selves ●…t to ●…e Ordinance of GOD by whom Kings reign●… But seeing so oft so instanly you presse us in this point yet force vs mutually to propone to you such Questi●… 〈◊〉 it may bee yee will have no great delight to answere●… We desire to understand of you Whether yee allow or disallow the Service booke and booke of Canons If ye disallow them as an innovation of Religion why have ye not either ioyned in Supplication with the rest of the Kingdome or made a Supplication of your owne against them or some other way testified your dislyke Next Whether it bee pertinent for men of your Place and Qualitie to move Questions of State touching the Power of Princes and liberties of Subjects after his Majesties Commissioner wise States-men have received satisfaction of the Subjects for suppressing such motions as yours 3. Whether doe the Subscribers more tender his Majesties Honour by supposing his constancie in profession of Religion and equitable disposition in ministration of Iustice or yee who suppose hee shall fall upon his religious and loyall Subjects with force of Armes contrarie to both 4. Whether the joyning of the whole Kingdome in the subscription of the Covenant or the intertaining division by your wrytting preaching and threatning of your people otherwise willing to joyne bee a more readie Meane to settle the present Co●…tions of the Kirke and Kingdome 5. If the Prelates and their Followers labouring to introduce Popery in the Land make a Faction by themselves or as the Guisians in France did abuse his Majesties name in execution of the bloodie Decrees of Trent which GOD forbid wee aske Whether in such a Case the lawfull defence of the bodie of the Kingdome against such a Faction bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the M●…rate and a taking A●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…g If ye ●…firme it to be is not this to take p●…t with a ●…tion seeking their owne endes against the Common-wealth of ●…he