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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	king_n	law_n	read_v	3,266	5	6.5822	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A14657	The svmme of a dispvtation betweene Mr. VValker, pastor of St. Iohn Euanglists [sic] in Watling-street London, and a popish priest calling himselfe Mr. Smith, but indeed Norrice assisted by other priests and papists : held in the presence of some worthy knights, with other gentlemen of both religions.	Walker, George, 1581?-1651.; S. N. (Sylvester Norris), 1572-1630.	1624 (1624)	STC 24960.5; ESTC S2955	22,486	46

such pricks in the Scripture how many verses words yet letters were in the Law and which was the middle verse word and letter so that by their Massorah if it hab beene kept perfect a man might finde out if there were but one word letter or prick altered or taken away out of all the old Testament All the differences which were found between the Bibles of the Easterne and Westerne Iewes are recorded and kept to this day the one set down vnder the names of the Sonnes of Ashur the other vnder the names of the Sonnes of Nephtali and they are such as do not alter the sense at all as may bee seene in all our great Rabbinicall Bibles The end therefore of the Massarites meeting and of their worke was not to inuent vowels and prickes but onely to note how they did finde the Scriptures pricked and vowelled from the daies of old and to set downe rules from the knowledge thereof and for the preseruing them without alteration or corruption to all posterities Thus much I haue learned out of the Rabbins though my skill bee but small in their Language and though I haue had no time to spend in the study of them but such as I haue stollen from my other necessary studies of Diuinity which properly concerne my Calling And if you know not this to be true I am sure you are but a weak Hebrutian and slenderly read in Hebrew Rabbins Mr. Smith All the Rabbins are of opinion that the pricks of the Bible were inuented by the Massarites and vndoubtedly that opinion is the truth Mr. Walker I pray you name one Rabbin of note who is of that opinion and I will name you ten of the contrary I haue ten or twelue of the best Rabbin Comentaries vpon the Law of Moses which I will shew to you and if you can finde any of them to be of that opinion I will yeeld vnto you in this point Nay more then that I will shew out of the Scriptures written by Moses that the originall Scriptures of Moses his Law which were kept in the Tabernacle by the Priests were written not single without pricks as common coppies were but double both with letters and pricks so that none could doubt of the right reading of them Mr. Smith It is easily said but impossible to be proued if you can shew me any such thing out of the Scriptures you shall do more then any euer yet could doe Mr. Walker Looke Deut. 17. 18. and there it is plainly testified that there was a booke of the Law appointed to be kept before the Priests Leuites in the Sanctuary out of which the King was commanded to write him a double written Copie of the Law that is a copie written both with letters and pricks and so most easie to be read and vnderstood for the Hebrew word there vsed is Mishneth which signifies Double and so you see here in your interliniall Bible Pagani doth translate it Duplum legis that is the Law written in the double forme both with letters and pricks Another Priest Mr. Smith being confounded with this proofe could answer nothing therfore another Priest who did sit by to assist him answered for him that the Hebrew word Mishneth doth not signifie the originall Scriptures but the exposition of the Rabbins vpon the text of Scripture Mr. Walker It is true that the Rabbins call their Expositions somtimes by this name as for example Rabbi Moses Maymonides call his Summe of the Talmid Mishueth Torah But you must know that in Moses his dayes when he wrote this Booke of Deuteronomy there were no Rabbinical Commentaries nor for a thousand yeares after only the Law it selfe was kept before the Priests and the King was commanded to write it onely into a Booke There Mishueth cannot here signifie any thing but the Text of the Law written in double forme which double forme of writing was easie to bee read and vnderstood and was an exposition in respect of the single writing without prickes Whereupon this word Mishueth came to signifie an Exposition or Commentary which doth largely expresse the meaning of the Law which is more short and obscure and the Iewes do call by this name the Book of Deuteronomy because it is an Exposition of the Lawes written more obscurely in the other bookes And their Expositions of the Law set down in their Talmud they also call Mishueth and Mishuai●th Priest The word Mishueth doth not signifie properly the Scripture but the doubled Law for the Scripture is called Mickra in the Hebrew tongue Mr. Walker The Law is the first Scripture which was written and therefore the word Mishuith by your own confession signisying the Law doubled is written in double forme signifies the Scripture written both with letters and pricks and so you contradict your selfe in your speech Whereas you alledge another name by which the Hebrewes call the Scripture to wit Mickra and from them would inferre that the Scripture is neuer called Mishueth by them I answer that your reason is ridiculous for one name of the Scripture doth not take away the rest but it hath diuers names in all languages we in English call it the Scripture and the Bible and the Booke of God and Gods word So in Hebrew the Scripture is called by diuers names sometimes Torah that is the Law because it is the rule of Life sometimes Chethab The Scripture or writing because it is written Sometimes Mickra because it is read of all Gods people And as it is written full and plaine in letters and pricks it is called Mishueh The Priest hauing nothing to reply to this answer but holding his peace Some of the Gentlemen desired that these disputations about the Hebrew text which they could not vnderstand might cease and that Mr. Smith would dispute in plaine English by way of Syllogismes To which motion both parties agreed And so Mr. Smith proceeded to another Argument which was written downe first and then answered Mr. Smith That Church which may erre for a time in a fundamentall point necessary to saluation is no true Church Yours is such Mr. VValker I deny your proposition for a true Church may so erre for a time Mr. Smith That Church which may erre for a time in a fundamentall point necessary to saluation hath no certainty for that time yours is such Ergo it is no true Church Mr. Walker Your Argument is Sophisticall and faultie diuers wayes First it doth not proue the proposition which I denyed and so it is a fallacy which we call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ignorationem Elanchi Secondly it is no true Syllogisme because it hath foure tearmes For the premisses tend to proue that our Church hath no certaintie and you conclude otherwise to wit that it is no true Church Thirdly the proposition is false for actuall erring in one point doth not take away certainty in all the rest much lesse possibilitie of erring for a time Mr. Smith I proue it

he would desire no more for the victorie Yea saith hee if you haue read Doctor Whitakers you know that he holds as I doe and that you wilfully and falsely father on him things vntrue Mr. Smith Mr. Smith enraged with this answer protested what he had said was true and the more to perswade the standers by he added more specially that Doctor Whitakers doth in his writings maintaine that the whole essence of the true Church consists onely in the true preaching of the word and the right administration of the Sacraments which are things visible Mr. Walker Sir I doe not loue to contend by oathes and protestations but by proofes I will here write downe your wordes which he did and read them in the hearing of all and asked if hee had not truly written and all assented he had Then hee proceeded thus I doubt not sir but you haue learned Logick and doe knowe that the definition of a thing doth expresse the whole essence and that what a man defines a thing to be that he holds to be the essence of it Tell me here doe you not grant this Mr. Smith I doe Mr. Walker Well then it must be granted that Doctor Whitaker doth hold that to be the essence of the Church which he doth comprehend in the definition of the Church Now his definition of the Church is Coelus electorum fid●lum A company of elect and faithfull men and he proues against Bellarmine that none can be seene with the eye to be members of the Catholike Church because the elect onely faithfull and godly belong to it whose graces are inuisible and not hypocrites and reprobates as Bellarmine doth hold Dare you deny this Mr. Smith I am sure he holds as I said before that the whole essence of the Church consists in true preaching of Gods word and in administration of the Sacraments Mr. Walker Because I will not spend time in contesting with you let this be the issue before these Gentlemen let vs send for Doctor Whitakers workes and if I doe not shew that he doth proue against Bellarmine that the Catholike Church is inuisible and that this is a maine point largely disputed by him and a maine controuersie betweene him and Bellarmine let mee be branded with the marke of a wilfull lyer impostore and false prophet But if I shew it presently before them all out of his owne writings then shall you confesse your selfe a forger and falsifier an impostor and a priest of Baal The Gentlemen all confessed that this was faire play and desired it might bee so Whereupon Mr. Smith began to draw backe and shewed himselfe vnwilling and much affraid to hazard his credit so quickly and would gladly haue left this point and fallen into another But Mr. Walker proceeded on this wise and said Gentlemen it is true that Doctor Whitakers maintaines that the Word truly preached and the Sacraments rightly administred are the certaine and infallible notes and markes by which euery true particular Church may be discerned to bee Christs true church and you know that the markes of a thing differ from the essence and substance of it as the signe hanging at the dore of a Tauerne and shewing that house to be a Tauerne differs from the Tauerne it selfe and the habit and Cowle of a Monke or Frier which is the marke of his order differs from the Monke himselfe and is not any part of his essence I beseech you therefore take notice of the boldnesse and impudency of popish Priests how they can snatch here and there a speech out of our learned mens writings without any vnderstanding of it and thereby make show as if they had throughly read those Authors yea and can in common talke and in titles of their printed pamphlets professe that they haue confuted Whitakers Reignolds Field Perkins and many others whose bookes they neuer durst reade throughly neither haue the hardinesse to sift any of their maine arguments I assure you that as you see this which I say here verefied so I finde it a common thing among them all Mr. Smith Mr. Smith and all his company on his side were very vnwilling to insist any longer vpon this point therfore answered nothing but presently proceeded to another question and asked Mr. Walker Whether the whole militant Church on earth may erre Mr. Walker I answer that this question is captious and ambiguous and cannot directly in one word negatiue or affirmatiue bee answered my reasons are these First because the whole militant Church if such a Church may be acknowledged is nothing but the whole number of particular Churches militant on earth and in diuers points they doe differ among themselues and it is impossible for any man to finde out the iudgement of them all in euery point as it is impossible to gather them all at once into one place Secondly it may bee said both that it may erre and also that it cannot erre in diuers respects and considerations if wee consider it by it selfe alone as it is militant and according to the militancy and weaknesse of it as I may so speake we grant that it may erre and in euery particular part of it there may bee found some errors but if we consider it according vnto the relation and dependance which it hath vpon the Triumphant Church and the assistance which it hath from Christ his Prophets and Apostles vpon whose doctrine and Scriptures it doth wholly cast it selfe and builds all the doctrines of faith so it cannot erre for in so doing it doth follow infallible guides euen as the Apostle saith of a man regenerate and borne of God that he cannot sinne 1 Ioh. 3. to wit in the maine against the maine precepts of the Gospell Beleeue and Repent for he cannot fall into impenitency and infidelity because the seede of God euen his holy Spirit abides in him But that he hath sinne and doth lie if he saith he hath none to wit through infirmity and weakenesse of the flesh So likewise it is truely said of the true Church and euery part thereof that as it builds onely on the Scriptures and doth vrge no doctrine of faith of necessity to be beleeued but such as the Scriptures teach So it cannot erre no more then the Scripture for this is a work of infallible faith But because all men liuing in the Church haue as infirmities of life so imperfections in iudgement and some peruersnesse in affections and therefore may faile in conceiuing some doubtfull and obscure places of Scripture amisse or in cleauing not so close to the word as they ought or following their owne affections to much as we see in all the writings of the Fathers and in the most part of the generall Councells in this respect we truly say that the Church militant may erre Mr. Smith You doe what you can to keepe off and not to come to the point but I will bring you to it doe what you can if you will answer me