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book_n	house_n	king_n	lord_n	2,914	5	3.9837	3	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85315	Stablishing against shaking: or, A discovery of the Prince of Darknesse (scarcely) transformed into an angel of light, powerfully now working in the deluded people called, Quakers: with a sober answer to their railings against ministers for receiving maintenance from their people. Being the substance of one sermon preached Feb. 17. 1655. at Shalford in Essex. / By Giles Firmin (pastour of the church there) upon occasion of the Quakers troubling those parts.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1656 (1656)	Wing F967; Thomason E885_13; ESTC R202074	45,528	65

wholly to these things Chap. 4. ver 15. not entangle himselfe with the affairs of this life Chap. 2. ver 4. Then must Timothy be maintained by the Church or beg if he have not enough of his own estate to keep him 2. Is your offence at Tithes First it is well known if the Magistrate who is to doe what in him lieth that the people under him may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honesty 1 Tim. 2.2 why else should the people pray that they might doe so and to this end takes care that according to Gods Institution Ministers be provided who may teach the people all godliness honesty he in the mean time a Nursing Father to them Isa 49. see that they may have an honourable maintenance according to the word I say if the Magistrate could finde a better way for the maintenance of the Ministery every way you shall see how easily Ministers will part with Tithes But now we take them as that which the Supreme power of the Nation for many yeares have allotted to us You have the least cause to be offended at Tithes because Tithes are no mans owne but the Ministers many hundred years since the Parliament of England not the Pope as learned Parnel saith in his books did set apart the Tithes for the maintenance of the Ministery and the supreme Magistrate is but the Feoffee in trust to see that what the people of England in their representative with the King and house of Lords had given to the Ministerie be duly payed them let this convince you if your hearts be sober that Tythes are no mans owne but the Ministers for let a man be to hire a Farme his Landlord cannot let him a Farme that shall pay no Tythes let a man buy a Farme or sell a Farme he can neither buy nor sell a Farme that shall pay no Tythes if a man have a Farme to sell of an hundred pound per annum this Farme may possibly pay twelve pound a yeare for tythes if this man could fell this farme tythe-free would he not raise the price in the sale of it accordingly So would not Landlords let their farmes accordingly if they could let them tithe-free the Tenant should soon finde it But neither the Landlord nor Tenant doe look upon the tythes as theirs but the Ministers whence men let hire buy sell lands as still looking upon them to pay tythes and so none of all these are wronged at all whence tythes are as duly our own as any mans estate is his and that is the reason why when people deny our due we go to the supreme Magistrate who as I said is the Feoffee in trust in his Officers and Courts to help us to our due as any other man wronged goeth for right to any Court whence it is evident it is meer blindnesse if not madnesse which makes people talk thus against Ministers taking of Tithes for we take onely what is our own and no mans else As for lands so for houses we observe the long Parliament made two Acts it may be more that I know not of one for Bristoll another for Colchester that according to the rents of houses so men should pay not exceeding a certain summe a very little one I am sure I know wicked spirits raile at the Magistracie for doing this but herein the Parliament did what was equal and just before God and man For as I said in my first if the Magistrate be bound to take care that the people under him doe lead a life in all godlinesse c. which comprehends the first Table of the Law then the Magistrate must set up able men no slight fellowes that may answer the qualifications in the Word to teach the people then reason besides the Word saith these must be fed maintained and that as become their places surely the Magistrate who hath power to raise a taxe when the good of the Common-wealth requires it hath as much power to cause people to pay towards the upholding of the Officers and Ordinances of God unlesse Religion doe nothing concern the interest and good of the Common-wealth which to affirm is to fall below Heathenisme As for such as affirm that the Magistrate hath nothing to doe in the Church the care of it doth not at all belong to him I think such devilish principles deserve not an answer yet they are answered though such owne not the Scriptures yet let them but go to the Heathens and they will shame them 3. It is well known there are abundance of Ministers who take not their tythes in kinde but compound with the people for their tythes I would faine see the enemies of the Ministers prove that ever the Priests in the old Law could doe such a thing then still we take not our Tythes as the Priests All Ministers would doe thus would people be reasonable in their compositions but we finde they defraud us 4. For Tythes it is impossible that the Supreme power should ever settle a more equall and easie way for the maintenance of the Ministery than this way of Tythes already set 1. Not more equall for therein we rise and fall with the people we share with their blessings and crosses we have little or more as they have little or more 2. Not more easie because as I said neither the buyer nor seller neither he that hires nor he that lets doe look on Tythes as theirs and is it a burden for men to pay for what is none of their own and they esteem none of their own as in my second I have opened Object But you should trust God for your maintenance Answer So we doe and desire to doe but we will not nor dare trust you if your corruption be touched or your rotten opinion be opposed if your covetous lust stirre and that reigns what is next we must seek for maintenance 2. We see God hath taken care for us already many hundred years before we were born in setling an estate upon us by the Supreme power of the Nation 3. You would have done well had you lived in the Primitive Churches when the Magistrate was an Heathen and so took no care for the Church but to destroy it but yet even then they were so free to maintain the Officers and Ordinances of Christ c that they could have Church stocks to maintain all with the poor the sick strangers yet then were Bishops besides Presbyters and none of these were to meddle with Secular cares for if they did they were to be cast out Can. Apost 7.80 as the Canons then made declare Had that spirit that is now amongst professors been in those dayes it had been very ill with the Church as it is now and should be worse might such Christians have their wills To gather up all then since Christ in his word hath commanded that we should be maintained since the Magistrate being Christian hath long since appointed us maintenance

you see the Priests ignorance and the Quakers knowledge laid together So let any one that hath reason reade Naylor his Answer to Io Reyners Queries Parnel against Dr. Draton and then see if it be not a wofull judgment of God to let a Nation be over-run and people catched with such witlesse brainlesse fellowes besides their grosse abominable principles that destroy Scriptures Ordinances Churches civil States c. Conclusion Since then the Light which the Quakers boast come from the infallible Spirit in them is thus irrationall brutish c. I conclude their Light is from Satan not from Christ Argum 12 Major That Light which affirmeth sound believers walking evangelically in obedience to Gods commandements to be in a state of condemnation that Light is from Satan not from Christ Minor But so doe the Light of the Quakers Ergo. The Major is plain 3 Ioh. 36.18.16 16 Mar. 16. If faith and holinesse shall go to hell what shall goe to heaven Minor They doe not say this in so many words but by consequence for the persons who are such and they cannot disprove it they affirm to be in that condition But the Quakers Light affirmeth sound believers and persons who walk in obedience c. to be in a state of condemnation For we are assured there are hundreds of sound believers in Christ in England that fear to sinne walke with the Lord and that more close than the Quakers who doe detest and abominate the Quakers doctrines principles and practises but the Quakers say of those who come not amongst them that they shall be damned perish c. This is their common language about us Thus J. Toldervy Ep. 17.18 told his Master Col. Web. Thus Mason p. 8. speaking to the Ministers whom he calls Merchants of Babylon bid us read our doom in Revel 18.7.8 yet among these I am sure are very sound believers and very holy men if they may be tried by the word which shall try them yea and you Mason and all your Quakers notwithstanding your boastings of the infallible Spirit Thus I. N. p. 17. F. Harris makes this Querie Whether it be safe for Christians to forsake and let goe those Gospel-dispensations of the Spirit of Truth in which God hath blessedly appeared c The summe of his answer is this that all those who deny the light of Christ and the infallible spirit in their sense this must be taken else we do say some truth is in this have nothing but the spirit of delusions but then adds without the infallible spirit there is no promise nor word but what is stolen from others or out of a booke and had thou had no booke thou had no voice nor promise Here is brave stuffe the promises then in the Bible are little worth if I. N. can finde any promises out of this book let him take them for me Thus Parnel and Naylor call the Ministers Magicians Let the Quakers tell us what is faith according as the Lord Christ declares it in his Word not their infallible Spirit without the Word tell us what it is to walk holily as the holy men in Scripture have done and see if there be not many hundreds that answer that faith and holinesse And let me desire the Quakers but to tell me of one man in the Word of God that was holy who embraced the Quakers doctrines principles and practises Conclusion Since then the Quakers light condemne such as the light of Christ approves of hence I conclude their light is from Satan c. Jam. 3.1 Be not many Masters knowing we shall receive the greater condemnation Who so masterly as the Quakers Mat. 7. ver 1. Argum 13 As for their shaking in that strange manner which some report of them and their books defend it is manifest enough to every one whom the God of this world hath not blinded whence it comes and prove their doctrine to have the same Authour it is a thing so known amongst them that J. Toldervy saith p. 28. He had long waited for it then had it to purpose My whole man was so shaken torn and rent that had I not by a great strength been enabled I could not have continued also it did worke in me as though I had taken a strong purge pag. 29. yet I. N. against F. Harris p. 18. abuseth the holy examples of Daniel Moses and David to defend these Diabolical actings nothing like those holy men neither in the causes nor effects Let the Reader observe the History at the end of the book I shall conclude all with transcribing a few lines out of him where he relateth what one of these Quakers who was of his former acquaintance pag. 7. spake to him with Answer to one of Parnels Queries He gave me to understand that they were sent forth to preach the Gospel by the same Christ the Apostles were and that the person that Son of God which died at Jerusalem was not the Redeemer of man from sinne Oh fearful but the redeemer was in every particular man that light by which he was given to see sinne and enabled by it if obeyed to be redeemed from sinne which Christ had redeemed them perfect and now lived in them Lord of all things by which they were made the sons of God and so what was manifested to them by that substance from that substance were they moved to speake which was the same holy Ghost by which the Apostles were endued sent forth and enabled to preach so he declared how sometimes in the night they were immediately commanded by the eternall spirit to goe forth and preach c. Here is enough said to make us all quake I intend not to open the wretchednesse that lieth in these words onely this is worth the observation that whereas some have cast off all Officers and Churches because we are out of order say they and therefore they wait for Apostolical men to be sent from God I know not how to bring us into order here you have them I hope your expectation is answered by a fearful judgement of God But let us hear what is Parnels opinion though propounded by way of querie Whether any now ought to preach in the name of Jesus but who are called to it and fitted for it the same way as the holy men of God were spoken of in Scripture What holy men he meaneth the next Querie to this will interpret Whether doe you owne immediate revelation now yea or nay q 8.9 The question would be what he means by immediate revelation but by comparing their spirits we may know his meaning Bishop p. 24. proving that we are not the Ministers of Christ brings in this for one proof Gal. 1.12 the Ministers of Christ received not the Gospel by man nor the will of man nor were they taught it but by the revelation of Jesus Christ in them We may see what Parnel aimes at but in this sense no we own no such revelations 1. For