by the authoritie of Scripture So saith the b August l. de natura grat c. 39. Credamus quod legimus quod non legimus nefas credamus ad struere quod de cunctis etiā dixisse sufficiut Pelagians in the same Authour Let vs beleeue saith Pelagius vvhat vve reade and vvhat vve reade not let vs beleeue it vnlavvfull to be established Let this suffice in all other matters So the c Aug l. post Collationem Nos sola portamus Euig lia Item concio 1. in Psal 32. Nos sola offerimus Euangelia Donatists in the same Authour saying vve bring vvith vs and present the Ghospells onely This was that which Eranistes aymed at whom a Apud Theod. in Dialog immutabilis Ego enim soli diuinae scripturae fidem habeo Theodoret brings in in his Dialogues where condemning all reasons he saith For I beleeue in the Ghospell onely So b Lib. 2. cont ipsum cap. 1. Fratribus nobiscum constitutisin sancto Euangelio Petilianus writing to his brethren vnder this title to our brethren constituted together vvith vs in the holy Ghospell So the Maximianists expressing them selues in these termes fighting with vs in the truth of the Ghospell Finally so the Arians Apud S. Aug. In veritate Euangelij nobiscum militantibus who were so wedded to the Scripture that they would not onely admit no sense but euen no word which was not comprised therin reiecting this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because it was not found there Concil Nicenum All these auncient Heresiarkes condemned by the Church and by your selues had the Scripture as frequently in their mouthes as you They tearmed themselues Euangelicall men like you They made the Scripture the onely rule of their Faith as you doe yet wheras they did it in words not in deede as was fitting but in publishing its name they abused the authoritie therof they were cōdemned by the Church their doctrine was iudged worthy of hatred as yours also is and will be I am confident by the iudgement of the whole world when I shall haue made manifest that you abuse the scriptutes to your owne ends It is truly worthy of hatred because vnder pretext of scripture the writen word of God almightie 1. it doth reiect his word not written 2. a great part of the written word 3. it clearely contradicts in many passages that which it doth admitt 4. corrupts it in diuers parts 5. and lastly it makes the word of men passe for the word of God yea euen the word of euery Idiot establishing vpon them the principall articles of your Faith 1. Vvorthy of hatred because it reiecteth the vvord of God not vvritten If he be worthy of hatred who in establishing a thinge destroyes that without which it cannot subsiste and which is also commanded by it your doctrine is by a iust title hatefull for the Scripture which whilsts it extolls it destroyes the Traditions commanded by the same Scripture and without which it can in no sort subsiste That holy writ cānot subsiste without Traditions it is most cleare since by them onely we know that the bookes of Scripture which we haue came vnto our hands pure and intire such as they proceeded from the mouth of the holy Ghost You beleeue as an article of Faith that you haue those bookes pure and intire wherfore ether the written word affirmethit which indeede is not so or not affirming it it followes that some other word not written doth teach it vs or els we beleeue that with a diuine Faith which God neuer spoke a thing most absurde seeing that the word of God is the onely fundation of our Faith That Traditions are commanded by the Scripture the second to the a Cap. 2. Tenete traditiones quas didicistis siue per sermonem siue per Epistolam nostram Thessalonians makes manifest where the Apostle speakes so clearely of Traditions of Faith not written that euen b Vvhitat controu 1. q. 6. c. 10. Respondeo Noui Testamenti Canonē non fuisse tune editū at que constitutū cum Paulus hanc Epistolā scriberet .... nō sequitut ergo quando Apostolus scripsit ad Thessalon tum omnia necessaria non sunt scriptae ergo nec postea your owne men confesse that at he tyme when S. Paule wrote there were such like traditions which since are inserted in holy Vvrite A thing indeede easily said but hardly persuaded especially to such as consider that it is not to be found in all holy scripture that those things which were not yet written while S. Paule wrote that Epistle were afterwards put downe in writing 2. Vvorthy of hadted because it reiects part of the Vvrittē vvorde of God Conc. Carthag 3. Can. 47. Trullan can 2. Rom. sub Gelaesio Trident By what authoritie doe you reiect many of the bookes of Scripture which the Church at diuerse tymes in diuerse Councells in diuers parts of the world in Greece Italie Afrique and Germanie defines to be canonicall and diuine Vvhat a senselesse thing is it that you of your owne head should establish canons hauing nether Father who doth declare nor Councell that doth define which is to be noted the Canon of the bookes of holy scripture according to your way The presumption which you vse in opposing your iudgement against the iudgement of the auncient Fathers and the authoritie of the Church is truly worthy to be hated 3. Vvorthy of hatted because it contradicts the scripture He that opposeth what he ought religiously to follow is he not worthy of hatred And ought not all men to follow the scripture You make profession of doing so and yet directly to deney what it affirmes and beleeue the contrarie to that which it teacheth in expresse termes as I haue proued in the precedent Chapter is not this to contradict it If a man can be said to esteeme him whom he often belyes you esteeme the scripture and if one can hold that for a Rule to which he frequently opposeth his iudgement you doe vndoutedly hold the scripture for the rule of your saluation For plainely to affirme that a thingis not wheras the scripture saith it is what other thing is it then to giue the lye to the scripture and to haue a iudgement opposite to the iudgement therof 4 Your corruptions in the scripture are so perfp cuous Vvorthy of hatred because it corrupis the Scripture that euen your owne men doe reprehend them Did not Charles du Mullin who is famous amongst you for this cause say that a Molinaesus in suatranslatione Noni Testaementi Caluinus in sua Harmonia textum Euangelicum desutare facit sursum versum vt res ipsaindicat vim infert literae Euangelicae illam multis in locis transponit in super additlitterae Caluin in his Harmonie puts the text of the Ghospell topsie turuie as the thing it selfe makes manifest violates the letter of
the people to heare and reade the holy Scripture in a tongue knovven to all and that publike seruice should be done in your subiects Vvlgaire tongue that they might be instructed therby And that henceforth God should not be suspected by men as though his word were a dangerous booke from which the people ought to abstayne For France stands obliged vnto vs in this that we haue published holy Vvrit in the french tongue which formerly was an vnknovven booke and that we haue giuen the children a sight of their Fathers Vvill which was hertofore hidden from them ANSWERE YOu continue the guiles which you vsed in the precedent Chapter while you represent your selues as men loaden with hatred for certaine considerations which in your conceipt might purchace you loue Hauing insinuated your selues into the harts of the people by pretending Christs interest you haue recourse to their owne with more facilitie to intice and gayne them to your selues You promis them wondres and make shew of great obligations while yet you doe but delude deceaue and leade them to their perdition impose vpon vs manifestly contradict your selues condemne in vs what your selues practise bragge of things which belong not to you and affect nouelties a A vvord is not a vvordexcept in as much as it signifieth and expresseth the conceiptes of him that speaketh and for this reason the scripture to speake properly is not the vvord of God but by reason of the senses vvhich makes vs knovv the conceits or counsels of God Hieron Basil alij Patres passim Vvhit ad rationem And since reason the Fathers and the comon consent euen of your owne men 2. Campiani Ipsa vis res quidammodo anima Sacrarum literarum in sententia consistit Rectè Hieronymus non in legendo sed in intelligendo scripturae câ—nsistunt Et alibi non in verbis Scripturarum est Euangeliâ—m sed in sensu doe vrge you to grant that the holy scripture doth principally consiste in the sense not in the bare letter though it contayne the one and the other I shall with facilitie make manifest vnto all the word that you doe but deride the people Because while you proteste to permitt them the full and intire knowledge therof you grant them no more libertie in point of sense then the Catholike Church doth her children for though all yours haue perminion to reade the Scripture yet is it not lawfull for any of them to explicate it in any other sense then that of Caluine or your owne as is made manifest by sundrie examples and peculiarly by that of the institution of the Euchariste where none can explicate these words This is my body otherwise then figuratiuely Vvherin you resemble those that promising a great treasure giue onely the sight of the coffer wherin it is kept Nay you giue not yet so much for doubting of the translation of the scripture and ingeniously b Vvhit cont 1. q. 2. c. 7. Nullam nos editionem nisi Hebrateam in 〈◊〉 Grae câ—in nâ—â—o Tesâ—un ento authentiâ—am faâ—â—â—us coÌ„fessing that there is no version at all authenticall that is of sufficient credit the people haue iust reason not onely to doubt of the sense of the scripture which you deliuer but euen of the verie letter of the version which you propose vnto them and consequently of their saluation it being a cleare case that they can haue no greater assurance of that then they haue of the meanes wherby you would conduct them thither He that promiseth children fruite to eate and yet giues them onely Amands which they cannot crake doth but mocke them yea he mockes them doubly when the Amands are not true but conterfeit onely So doe you doubly delude those who beleeue you in a matter of importance since that the letter of the Scripture which you giue them is not authenticall not doe you permitt them of themselues to gather out of it the true and naturall sense which in their iudgement it contaynes You mocke them verily and deceaue them both at once You deceaue them because vnder the name of the word of God you present vnto them the word of men sithens you deliuer them the scripture changed by mans inuention and interpreted against the sense which the words beare as I haue alreadie shewen and that as a In 1. Gal. Interpretatione peruersa de EuaÌ„gelio Christi hominis fit Euangelium aut quod peius est diaboli Luther lib. de Missapriuata S. Hierome notes The Gospell of Iesus Christ is made the Gospell of men by a peruerse interpretation yea which is worse the Gospell of the Diuell because will I adde vse is made of it to establish vntruth and errour wherof he is the father And this may be more iustly auerred of yours then of any other because in certaine passages you obserue the sense which Luther receaued of the Diuell in a visible shape You delude the people by persuading them that of all the exteriour meanes vsefull for our saluation the reading of the Bible is the onely certaine one which is manifestly false for otherwise the blind which cannot reade simple and ignoraÌ„t people who haue no learning could not be amongst the number of the faithfull They that were Christians before the Gospell was written they that beleeued in the tyme of a Lib. 3. c. 4. S. Ireneus as he himselfe is witnes in Carist Iesus without paper and inke were not of the faithfull They againe who vnderstand not the hebrew and greeke tongue were not capable of faith since according to you no version is authenticall nor can faith be attayned vnto but by a meanes which is infallible But if you reply that such people may receaue it from the mouth of their Pastours who doe faithfully preach vnto them the word of God it followes then that the Scripture is not the onely externe meanes to obtayne Faith since you your selues adioyne this second which cannot be sufficient for some vnlesse it were so for all the rest And in deede what reason is there so to ty and restrayne the word of God to paper to the character and letter that it can no further be a meanes of saluation then it is contayned vnder these signes Haue they any force of their owne nature If not why is not the word of God in the hart and mouth of the Church and her Pastours an assured meanes of saluation You deceaue the people not onely by persuading them that the reading of Scripture is the sole meanes of saluation but moreouer in teaching them that it is a sufficient meanes and that none ought to looke after any other which is euidently false for two reasons first because the Scripture teacheth that faith cometh by hearing and that it hath so absolute a dependance of it that without it faith cannot be had How saith a Rom. 10. v. 14. Quomodo credent ei queÌ„ non audieruÌ„t Quomodo autâ—m audient
THE PRINCIPALL POINTS OF THE FAITH OF THE CATHOLIKE CHVRCH Defended against à writing sent to the King by the 4. Ministers of Charenton BY THE MOST EMINENT ARMAND IHON DE PLESSIS CARDINAL DVKE DE RICHELIEV Englished by M. C. Confessor to the English Nuns at Paris AT PARIS By SEBASTIEN CRAMOISY Printer to the King M.DC.XXXV THE AVTHORS ESPIST TO THE KINGE SOVERAIGNE Knowing well that it beseemes à Bishop to speak in the behalfe of the Church and his King and seeing that the writinge of the Ministers of Charenton made bold to addresse it selfe vnto your Maiesty both against the Catholike Church and by consequence against your Maiesty since that beeing her eldest sonne her interests are yours I iudged it to be my duty not to remayne silent especially amongst such as triumphed vpon this occasion as though forsooth they had borne away some glorious victorie ouer the Faith of our Ancesters This was that Soueraigne which inuited me to imploy my vacant tyme to make the Church her innocencie appeare as glorious in your Maiesties sight as she hath bene represented vnto you blame-worthy and the Belief of her Accusers as pernicious as they striue to haue it esteemed holy In the performance hereof I will vse the greatest moderation that I can possibly desiring that as our Beleife and theirs with whom I am to deale are contrarie so may also our manner of proceeding be And in lieu of the bitternes by which they impose vpon vs sundrie calumnies we may render to them truth accompaigned with such sweetnes that if they dispense with their passions they may receaue occasion of content Thence they shalt knowe that our designe is to doe them good not euill to cure not to wound them and that we are so farre from hating them as they pretend that wee doe vnfeynedly loue them and in such à measure as that we hate not their Doctrine but by reason of the loue which we beare vnto their persons being à thinge impossible that à man should not haue in horrour the kinfe that murders his friend and the poison which bereeues him of life We loue them Soueraigne in so full à measure of Charitie that insteede of wishing their hurt as they misconceaue we most humbly petition to your Maiestie to inrich them with your Royall fauour by endeuouring efficaciously to roote vp the errours which haue taken deepe roote in their harts and to procure their conuersion And that they may not conceaue that vnder pretext of their Good it is their hurt that I ayme at and that speaking of their conuersion I would incite your Maiestie to force them vnto it I will assure your said Maiestie that the sweetest wayes are those which I apprehend most conuenient to reclame christian soules from errour Experience reaching vs that offentymes violent remedies serue onely the more to exasperate the maladies of the mynde By this meanes your Maiestie corresponding to the glorious title of MOST CHRISTIAN purchased by the pietie of your Predecessours shall publish your selfe the most famous king in the world and shall more and more establish à constant peace and repose in your dominions It being indoubtedly true that it is à thing incomparably greater to gaine soules then to conquere Kingdomes And by how much more your subiects shall be vnited to God by so much shall they be more surely addicted to your Maiesties seruice Now wheras in the deseases which doe affect the parts noble remedies are to be applied which are proper vnto them obseruing that besides that heresie is as poyson which of its owne nature tends to the seasure of the hart the Ministers haue particularly addressed their writing to your Maiestie which is the hart that doth quicken this florishing Realme though I know yea it is à thing knowen to the whole world that the soliditie of your faith preserues it from all perill yet I conceaued that my dutie did engage me to present vnto him the Antidote which I hope will be so much more agreeable vnto him as my designe is to testifie vnto him by this action that all the endeuours of my life shall neuer haue other ayme then his seruice It is the Protestation that he makes who is DREADE SOVERAIGNE Your Majesties Most humble most obedient and most loyall subiect and seruant ARMAND BISHOP OF LVCON TO THE READER HAuing learned of S. Augustine that it is à meere follie to speake without proofe in matter of religion Aug. l. 2. contra lit Pitiliani cap. 29. and seeing that the writing which moued me to vndertake this defence of the principale points of Faith touched all questions without prouing any one I was long tyme of opinion that it rather merited to be despised then answered But hauing vnderstoode as it is the custome of the weake to tryumphe at smale matters and by cunning out of faigned aduātages to publish victories which they obtayned not that the pretended Reformers of these parts sent abroad this writing with à florishing vogue and diuulged euery where that it was an Arsenall which within à litle cōpasse comprised all the engines requisite vtterly to ruine the truth of Catholike religion and considering with S. Hilaire by how many guiles Hilar. in Psal 64. and subtilties heresie striues to peruerte faith I iudged it better to replie then passe it ouer in silence and here vpon I resolued to vndertake this defence My purpose is to discouer That the Ministers of Charenton are ill grounded in all their pretentions That they haue all the reason in the world to commend our Kings and no occasion at all to complayne therof as they doe That their Beleife is not hared for the reasons they alleadge though worthy of hatred for many others which cuningly they conceale In conclusion that the Catholike Church her Ministers and all those whom they accuse remayne free from the crimes which they impose vpon them To effect this I haue diuided this booke into 19. chap. in the first 14. I satisfie the Ministers writing from point to point The other fiue are spent in deducing the reasons for which their doctrine ought to be abhorred of all the world The Reader may please to know that studying breuitie in this my answere I haue no intent to heape together all that might be said vpon euery point and yet say enough too to make it impossible for our aduersaries to shake or moue what I shal establish Further let him know that as often as I can possibly I make vse of their confession of Faith with whom I deale and of the testimonie of their owne Authours so that without blushing and Lying both at once they shall not be able to call in question the truth which I publish I had tyed my selfe to the onely confession of their Faith if I had found it as compleate and intire as full of defectes But wheras they cōtayne not halfe the points which are in controuersie betwixt vs and those too which they cōtayne being expressed
ought no more to be reputed Magistrates but are to be accused examined and condemned The people saith a Bucan de iure regni populus principem in ius capitis vocare potest Bucanan haue power to iudge of the life of kings It were to be wished b Lib. de iure regni Optandum est vt praemia à plebe decernantur iis qui tyrannos occiderint vt fierisolet iis qui lupos caedunt saith he againe that rewards were appointed for such as kill tyrants as we are wont to doe to those that kill woolues But what forme doe you obserue in these depositions None at all Vvhat respite doe you allow kings that are to be deposed by the people to recant None at all In your opinion they depose themselues when they behaue themselues otherwise then they ought so that the people are onely to oppose themselues and rise vp against them The kings of the earth saith c in 6. Dan. v. 22. 25. Abdicant se potestate terreni principes cum insurguÌ„e contra Deum immò indigni sunt qui in numero hominuÌ„ censeantur ideoque in capita potiùs corum compuere oportet quam illis parere Cal doe depriue themselues of power when they make head against the king of heauen Yea they are vnworthy to be numbred amongst men and therfore we are rather to spitt in their faces then to obey them If Princes saith a a Rnoxus queÌ„ Galuinus epist 305. virum insignem eximium virum ex animo colendum fratrem Beza ep 74. Euangelij apud Scotos restauratoreÌ„ quem teste Vvitakero coÌ„ trou 2. quaest 5. cap. 13. Scoti omnes testantur fuisse spiritu prophetico Apostolico praeditum in admonitione ad Angliam Scotiam si Principes aduersus Deum ac veritatem eius tyrannicè se gerant subditi eorum à iuramento fidelitatis absoluuntur scotish man whom Caluine tearmes an excellent man Beza the restorer of the Gospell in scotland whom all the scots as Vvitakere relates esteemed to haue the spirit of prophesie If Princes saith this famous personage in your iudgement gouerne tyrannically against God and his truth his subiects are absolued from their oath of fidelitie But what cause is sufficieÌ„t to depose a king according to your doctrine Onely religion no not that onely but many other more their wicked life their vices No man saith b Apud Osiand in epitonâ— centur 9. Nullus est Dominus ciuilis nullus est Praelatus nullus est Episcopus dum est in peccato mortali Vviclef is a temporall Lord none a Prelate none Bishope when he is in mortall sinne c In explan art 42. Principes quanâ—â— perside extra regulam egerint possunt eum Deo depo â—i It is lawfull to depose Princes saith Suinglius when they do disloyally transgresse the rule of Iesus Christ which he thinkes they doe as he himselfe confesseth if they f Cum seelerates prouehit innouios praegrauat vt cum inutiles ventres otiosos sacrificos defendit Princeps aduance the wicked oppresse the innocent and defend the idle sacryficers to witt Catholikes as is to be noted I could proue out of a multitude of authours what is your sense in this behalfe which paines I would willingly vndertake if that which you teach vpon this subiect were as aduantagious as preiudiciall vnto you I will onely inuite the Reader to see a booke in titled the Protestants Apologie one of the most profitable that hath bene printed these many yeares where he will find far more passages vpon this subiect amongst the rest some which doe verifie that your Authours haue written that it is lawfull by diuine and humane law to kill impious kings that it is a thing conformable to the word of God that a priuate man by speciall instinct may lawfully kill a Tyrant a most detestable doctrine in euery point which will neuer enter into the thoughtes of the Catholike Church This is not yet all Hauing now seene what you deliuer touching the deposition of kings we must also see by your actions how you behaue your selues towards them Since your etrours were brought into the world by Luthere and Caluine you haue let no occasion slipe where you could make vse of your pretended power in which you haue not done it You put an armie a foote against Charles the V. whom by way of derision you instiled Charles of Gant to trouble him in his Dominions Surius ann 1547. and to depriue him of dominion You haue borne armes against three kings of France Francis the II. Charles the IX Henry the III. in the raigne of Charles the IX you coyned money in the name of another to whom you gaue the name of king Du Chesne in the historie of England vnder Elizabeth and Marie How did you vse Marie Queene of Scotland did you not make her captiue Did you not in prison cause her to renounce her royall dignitie Did you not thrice take vp armes against Marie Queene of England Did you not sett vp a pretended Queene against her Did not oue of yours attempt vpon her royall person Iane borne vp by the Duke of Northumberland In Flanders you dispoyled Philippe king of Spayne of a part of his Prouinces Christiernus Surius king of Denmarke was by yours dispossessed of his crowne driuen out of his kingdome afterwards clapt in prison where following the opinion of the tymes the dayes of his life were abridged by poyson Sigismond who at this day raignes in Polonie sees himselfe depriued of the crowne which appartaynes vnto him by right of inheritance and which his father did peacably possesse his vnkle who was of your profession being put vp into his place by your men You vsurped vpon the Emperour Rodolphus the last deseased Transsiluania which he possessed by iust title as king of Hongarie And all this following the example of your predecessour Caluine who cannot indure the Bishope of Geneua I will not say in qualitie of Bishope onely but euen in the nature of temporall Prince Vvhosoeuer shall reade the histories wherin what I speake is contayned shall see that in one age you disturbed two Emperours acctually spoyled one king excluded another out of his kingdome deposed one Queene made warre against another to bereeue her of her crowne bore armes against foure kings deposed other temporall Princes put a king to death brought a vertuous and wise Queene into captiuitie who had power to inlarge others with libertie whom in conclusion violating diuine and humane lawes you put to death after a most inhumane and incompassionate manner CHAP. IX MINISTERS TO bring more light and euidence vnto this matter we must giue your Maiestie to vnderstand that you nourish in your kingdome a faction of men who call themselues companions of Iesus as though it were too â—itle to be his disciples who haue made an oath of blind obedience and that
that he was not also reputed an heretike in sustayning that workes were not profitable to saluation In which matter S. Ireneus and Theodorete remoue all manner of doubt when they bring in his opinioÌ„ that meÌ„ were not saued by their good workes as hereticall Howbeit I vndertake not to proue an intire conformitie betwixt your beleife and theirs not being ignorant that as theeues disguise stolen things to put them out of the knowledge of their owners so you disguise the old heresies that men may mistake them Marrie I most willingly vndertake to shew as indeede I doe that that old Heresiarke held as you doe That we are not saued by good workes And consequently that huing bene condemned in this point the soule of your faith was branded with à sentence of condemnation in the first age of the Church whose authoritie you dare not reiect 2. Point You beleeue that the faith of parents is so efficacious that their children dying without Baptisme are saued a 24. Inslit c. 15. Caluin doth teach this doctrine and withall it is so vulgarly knowen euen to the simplest of your fellowers that it needes no proofe Now albeit you make profession to deteste the Pelagian errours yet your beleife in this point is one of their heresies as it is cleare out of S. Augustine who puts it downe as such in his catalogue of heresies b lib. de Haer. 88. Promittunt eis aeternam beatam quandam vitam They promisse saith he to children not baptised à blessed and eternall life c lib 1. de anima eius origine 1.9 Noli credere nols decere infantes anâ—equam baptizantur morte â—raeuentos peruenâ—re posse ad originalium indulgentiam peccatorum which he doth charge with so heauie à condemnation that in the bookes he wrote against them he addes Beleeue not affirme not teach not that children preuented by death before they were baptised can euer obtayne remission of their originall sinne if you desire to be Catholike Ergo This article of your faith is condemned in the person of Pelagius But if you alleadge for you that your and the Pelagian heresie are far different they holding that euery child that dyed without baptisme did in ioy Gods Glorie wheras you limite it to the predestinate onely And againe they assigned to children dying without baptisme à different place from that which those that were regenerated possesse which you doe not I answere that the first difference which you giue betwixt you and the Pelagians coÌ„sisteth onely in à greater or lesser number of those children whom you beleeue to be saued without baptisme and not in the substance of the errour impugned by S. Aug. who while he teacheth that no child at all without Baptisme can be saued he condemnes you both in that wherin you agree to witt that some are saued without baptisme As for the second difference which consists in this that the Pelagians assigned another place to children dying without baptisme then to the baptised it is disaduantagious to your selues and yet doth no whitte impaire the force of my argument to the validitie of which is it sufficient that you and the Pelagians aggree in this that without baptisme one may inioy life euerlasting Which S. August doth clearly condemne and by way of disgrace obiect vnto them that they promisse à blessed and eternall life to children not baptised And that this difference doth disparage your cause By deduction you will plainly discouer The Pelagians held that children were saued without Baptisme This passage was opposed against them Ioan. 3. Vnles à man be borne againe of water and the spirit he cannot enter c. they being coÌ„uinced by the clearnes of this place graÌ„ted indeede that the kingdome of heaueÌ„ was only prepared for the regenerated marrie besides heauen they assigned à third place as à Residence for children dying without Baptisme So that they gaue way to the clearenes of this passage which you doe for you deney absolutly that it doth exclude children that die without the sacrament from the kingdome of heauen though it reach expressly that they shall haue no patt therin Wherin you clearely diseouer that your heresie is more impudent then that of the Auncient heretikes sith you audaciously deney as à thing which is preiudiciall vnto you that which they durst neuer call in question though it were absolutly against them It is manifest therfore nor haue you what to say against it that this article of your faith wherby you maintain that children dead without baptisme are saued was condemned by the auncient Church in the person of Pelagius Yet fearing that the differences which are betwixt his errout and yours abbeit they be not able to saue you from the Churchs curse might hinder you to confesse that you are condemned in his person to leaue you to your owne condemnation I will shew you the condemnation of your verie errour in S. August Lib. de anima eius origine c. 9. Isle autem Vincentius cum confiteatur paruules origiginali obstrictos esse peccato eis tamen regnum coelorum non baptizatis ausus est pollicert quod nec illi ausi sunt c. in the person of one named Vincentius who without assigning à third place with Pelagius ahsolutly allowed with you the kingdome of Heauen to Children not baptised He durst saith S. Aug. promisse the kingdome of heauen to children not baptised which the Pelagians durst neuer doe 3. Point Your Doctours doe teach that our Sauiour Christ did in his birth violate his mothers integritie as all other children are wont to doe a Whitak controu 2. q 5. c. 7. Docuit â—ouinianus Mariam amisisse Virginitatem in partu Respondeo tum impudetissimus haereticus fuit sed ait nos similiter docere nominat Bucerum Molinaum Respondeo Hoc ait quia non adenittimus fictam â—llam partus ratiorem c. Witakere purging himselfe of diuers errours which the great Cardinal Bellarmine iustly imputes to his sectaries doth ingenuously auow this opinion and striues to defend it which yet puts no obligation vpon me at this present to refute it contenting my selfe onely to shew that it is the auncient heresie of Iouinian which was condemned in the 4. age according to S. Aug. b Haeres Virginitaâ—â—m Mariae destruebat dieeÌ„ eam parieÌ„do fuisse corrupiaÌ„ relation in these tearmes Iouinian saith he did destroye the virginitie of Marie saying that in her Childbrith she was corrupted Nor is it to the present purpose to shew that your beleife doth differe from that of Iouinian for that he forsooth doth abolish the mentall virginitie of the B. Virgine which you de not it being manifest that Iouinian denid corporall virginitie to our B. Lady Both because S. Augustine impugning this Heresiarke defends her corporall virginitie and also for that the reason which he brings to shew that the B. Virgine had not conserued her Virginitie was grounded vpon her childbirth