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A04488 A proper dyaloge, betwene a gentillman and a husbandma[n] eche complaynynge to other their miserable calamite, through the ambicion of the clergye. An A.B.C. to the spiritualte. Barlow, William, fl. 1527.; Ullerston, Richard, d. 1423. Compendious olde treatyse, shewynge howe that we oughte to have ye scripture in Englysshe.; Purvey, John, 1353?-1428?, attributed name.; Barlow, Jerome, fl. 1527.; Tyndale, William, d. 1536.; Roy, William, fl. 1527-1531. 1530 (1530) STC 1462.5; ESTC S109533 31,374 66

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workes are nought and not bycause yt is euill translatyd they so furiously resyste the worde of god whiche is the trew lyght For yet was ther neuer none translatyd but other with falshed or tyranny they put yt downe Wherfore I exhorte the reder not to cōsydre note y e wordes but the matter And praye to god to sende y ● rulers har tes to vnderstonde y e trewth further y e same ād the god of all cōforte be with the AMEN ¶ Thys treatyse more than an C. yere olde Declareth howe owre prelatis do ferre a mysse Which of frowarde presumpcion are so bolde To forbede the worde of god in englishe For as the prophete saieth blessed he is That exercyseth him selfe diligently In scripture night and daye continually FOr to make vpon antichrist I ta ke figure of king Antioche of who in●… gods lawe speaketh in y e bo●… of Machabeijs for righte as ●…ge Antioche came in the ende wellnygh of y e olde lawe brēt the bokes of gods lawe compelled y e people to do maumentry So now Antichrist y e kinge off clergy that lyuen worse then hethen presies brē neth nowe nygh thēde of y e new lawe thenāgely of Christe that is nygh●… y e ende of y e world to deceyue well hygh all the worlde ād to proue y e seruauntes of god For nowe god shall knowe who will stande by his lawe for Sathanas as prophetes saye is nowe vnbounde hathe ben CCCC yeres and more for to inhabit oure clergye as he did the clergye of the olde lawe but now with moche more malyce For as they d●… ned Christ so now oure bisshopes dampne and bren goddes lawe for bycause it is drawen into our mother tounge But it ought to 〈◊〉 and we saued shuld be as we shall proue by open euidē ce thorowe goddes helpe First we take witnesse of Bo●…tius de disciplina scolari●…n that say the that childerne shulde be taught in the bokes off Seneke And Bede expoundeth this sayen●… and saythe that childerne in vertues shulde be taught For the bokes of Seneke ben moralles and for they be not taught thus in there youthe they cōtynue still euyll maneryd be vnable to conceyue the subtyle science of trouthe sayng y e wise man is as a cleane myrror new pullished Wisdome shall not enter into a wicked soule And moche is herof the sentence of Bede And Algasell in his logyke saieth the soule of mā is a cleane myrror newe pulished in which is seyn lightly the ymage of vertue And for the people haue not cunnynge in youthe they haue darke soules and blinde with ignorance so that they profyt not in vertue but in falsnes malice and other vices moche is therof y e matter Sythē hethen philosophers wolden the people to profyt in naturall science howe moche more shuld christē clerckes will y e people to profyt in science of vertues for so wold god For when the lawe was genē to Moses in y e mount of Sinai god gaue it to his people in ther mother tonge of Ebrue that all the people shuld vnderstande it cōmaunded Moses to reade it to them vntyll they vnderstode it and so he did as it is playne Dente xxxi And E●…dras also redde it in their●… mother tonge fro morowe vntyll none as it is playne in the first boke of E●…dras Ca. viij And he redde it apertly in the streate the eares of y e people were intently geuē therto in so moche y t the people fell into greate weping for y ● mis●…es ping of y e lawe Also gods lawe saith Deutero xxij that fathers shuld make the lawe knowē to their sonnes the sonnes y t shulde be borne of thē shuld ryse teache these thinges to ther son nes And y t holy apostle seynt Peter in y ● fourth chapter of his first boke speaketh after this maner sayenge Whosoeuer speake speake he as y e worde of god euery man as he hath takē gra ce of knowinge so ministre he forth to other m●… It is wrytten playnly in the boke of noumbres Chapter xi When the prophet Moses hadde chosen seuenty eldermen and the sprite of god rested on them and they prophesyed Two men besydes them Eldad and Medad prophesyed in y e tentes Iosue the ministre of Moses said to Mos●…s forbyd thou them And Moses say de what enviest thou for me Who shall let y t all the people prophesye yf god gyue them his spirite Also it is redde in y e gospell y t sayn ct Ihon ●…uāgelist said vnto Christ lorde we shall forbid one that casteth out spirites in thy name which foloweth not vs. And Christ said do not forbid for who so is not against vs is with vs. And vnto the same agreyth well the prophesy of Iohell whiche seynct Petre preachinge to the Iewes strongly alleged as Luke recyteth in the secōde chapter of the acres of the apostles sayenge after this maner That god nowe in the laste dayes shall shede out his spirite vp●… euery flesch For god sayeth your sonnes doughters shuld prophesy and your yong men shall se visyons And vpon whit sond●…y god gaue knowlege of his lawe to diuerse naciōs without any excepci ons in ther mother tonge by the vnderstanding of one tounge And of this it is notabyll sithen the laye people in the olde lawe had their lawe in ther mother tounge that the lay englishe people in the newe lawe haue it as all other naciōs haue syns Christ bought vs as he did other hath geuen to vs the same grace as to other For saynt Peter Actu xi was reproued for he had baptysed Cornelij and his felows that we re hethen men And Peter answered and sayde Yf god haue gevyn the same grace to them that he hath to vs who am Ithat may forbyd god As who saythe it lyeth not in the power of men Than who art thou y t forbiddest y e people to haue gods lawe in ther mother tounge we saye y t thou art Antichrist himself For Paule saieth i. Corin. x. I will euery man to speake with tounges more forsothe to prophesy also he saith ho we shall he saye Amen vpon thy blessynge that woteth not what thou sayst Vpō this saith doctor Lyre Yf the people vnderstōde y e prayer of y e priest it shall the better be ledde vnto god the more deuoutly answere Am●… Al●…o ▪ Paule saith in the same chapter I will rather fyue wordes to be spoken to the vnderstāding of m●… then ten thousand y t they vnderstand not And. lxx doctours with other m●… before the incarnacion of christe translated y e bible out of Ebrue into Greke And after y e ascension many translated all y e bible in diuerselangages as into spanysh tonge frenshetunge almanye italy ād by many yeres haue had it It was hard of a worthy mā of
englyshemen to haue in englyshe god des lawe therfore he brennythe sleythe thē y t maynteyne this good deade that is for default that the kyng lordes knowē not ne wyll not know ether owne office in maitenāce of god and his lawe For as sainct Austen saithe the Ryng with his knyghtes representyn the godhede of Christe prestes the manhode of Christe Rex est vicarius diuinitatis et sacerdos est vicarius Christi humanitatis hec Augustinus in de questionibus veteris et noue legis ca. xci And if the kyng desyer to knowe perfytly his of fyce he maye fynde mē to shewe to hym bookes that truely perfytly shall enforme hym to doo his office to the plesaunce of god But this can not he lerne of Byshoppys for they enforme hym after Antichristes lawe and ordenaunce for his lawes nowe reignen Yet agaynst them that sayn y e gospell in englyshe wold make mē to erre wote they well y t we fynde in latyn langage more heretykes then of all other langages for the decre saythe xxiiij xciij Quidam autem heretici that there be founden syxty laten heretykes And yf mē shuld hate any lāgage for here sy thē must they hate latē But god forbede that any lāgage shuld be hated for heresy sythē manye heretykes wer of y e disciples of y e apos●…les For sainct Ihon̄ saithe they haue gon̄ owt of vs but they were not of vs. And Paule saithe it behouyth heresys to be ātichrist maky the ma ny mo herctykes then there shuld be for he stoppythe so the knowyng of gods lawe punysheth so them that he knowyth y ● haue it y t they dare not comē therof opēly to haue trewe informaciō thys makyth laye men y ● desyrē lou●… to knowe gods law to goo to gyther in pry●… 〈◊〉 cōceyuen by theyr owne wyttes many tymes heresys y e whiche heresies in shorttyme shuld be destroyed yf men myght haue free comenyng opēly but if this maye be had moche of y e peo ple shall dye in heresy for it lyethe neuer in An tichristes power to destroye all englyshe bookes for as fast as he brennethe other mē shale drawe thus y e cause of heresy ād of y e people that dyeth in heresy is y e frowardnes of byshoppes that wyll not suffer mē to haue opyn comoning and fre in the lawe of god and therfore they be cowntable of as many sowlys as dyen in thys default ād are traytors to god in stoppynge of his lawe y e whiche was made in saluacion of y e people And nowe they turne his lawe by ther cruell cōstitucyōs into dāpnaciō of y e people as it shalbe prouyd apon thē at the dayte of dome for gods lawe saithe Stabunt iusti in magna const●… tia aduersus eos qui se angustiauerunt qui abstulerunt labores eorum c. For that the other men laborē they brennē yf owre clergy wold ●…dy well this lessen of sapi●…ce to y e ende they shuld mowe rede therin theyr oune dāpnacion bu●… yf they amend this defaulte with other defaultes Saithe not the holy mā Ardemakan in the booke of questiōs that y e wurshupfull sacramēt of y e alter maye be made in eche comē lāga ge For he saithe so diden y ● apostles But we co uer not thys but y ● Antechrist geue vs leaue to haue the lawe of ower beleue in englishe Also they y ● haue comonyd moche with y e Iewes saye y t they haue in euery lāde y t they be borne in y e byblein ther mothertoūge y t is Ebrewe And they be more practysetherin thā annye men ye aswell y e lewde m●… as y e prestes But it is redde in her synagoges amōgest y ● people ofther prestes to fulfyll ther prestes office to y ● edificacion of y e p●…raile that for worldly busynes slewthe maye not studye it Also the. iiij enāgelistes wrote y e gospell in diuerse langages as Mathewe in Iurye Marke in Italy Luke in Achaie and Ihon̄ in Asie And all these wrotte in y ● lāgages of the same contreys also T●… bye saithe Chap. xiij that god disperged sprede or scaterid y t Iewes abrode among the hethen pe ople y t they tellynge vnto theym y e merueylles of godde they shuld knowe that there were none other god but god of Israell And god or dyned his people to beleue his lawe wrytten among them in ther mother tounge vt patet Ge. x. vij and Exo. xiij In so moche the ●…e of Iudithe is wryttē in Calde speche vt patet per Hieronimū in prologo eiusdē Also the bookes of Daniel and of Esdre ben written in Calde vt patet per Hierom. in prologis eorundem al so the booke of Iohel is in Arabyke and Syre speche vt patet per Hieroni. in prologo ciusdē Also Ezechiell the prophet prophesyed in Babylon and lefte his prophesye vnder the mother tounge of Babylon vt patet per Hieronimū in prologo ciusdē Also the prophesye of Isaie is translated in to the tounge of Ethiope as Hie. concludyth in primo prologo Gene. Then sythen the darke prophesyes were translated amō ges the hethen people y t they myght haue know lege of god and of the incarnaciō of Christ mo che more it ought to be translatyd to englyshe people that haue receiuyd the faythe and bounden them selfe to kepe it vpon payne of dampna cion sythen Christ commaunded his apostles to preache his gospell vnto all the worlde and exceptyd no people nor langage Also Origen translated the byble owt of Ebrewe into Greke with helpe of other in the yere of ow●… lorde god CCxxxiiij Also Aquila translated it in thery me of Adriā the emperoure in the yere of oure lorde C. xxiiij also Theodosion trāslaid it in y e tyme of thē perowre Comede luij yere after Aqui la also Simacus trāslated it in the tyme of thē perowre Serene xxx yere after Theodosiō viij yere after Simacus it was translated the auctor vnknowen yn the tyme of Alexāder the emperowre And Ierome translated it into latyn vt in cronicis Cistercien li. ij ca. xxxij And after that Ierom had translated it into laten he translated to women moche of the bible And to the maydens Eustochia and Paula hetranslated the bookes of Iosue of Iudicum and Ruth and Hester and Ecclesiastes Ieremy Isai●… and Daniell and the. xij prophetes and y ● vij canonyke epystylles vt patet in prologo eorundem And so all men maye se here by Ierom y t it was neuer his entent to bynde y e lawe of god vnder his translacion of laten but by his owne dede geuythe leaue to translate it into euery spe che for Ierom wrytythe in his lxxviij epystle to this man A●…leta that he shuld enforme his daughter in the bookes of the
se of their prayenge no comodyte Nether a●…untage in any maner For whye with in thes iiij hundred yere Thorough oute christendome was not a free●… Of thes whom we mendicantes call And syth that tyme dyuers facciones Of collegianes monkes and chanones Haue spred this region ouer all Also of prestes were not the tenthe parte Which as they saye haue none other ar●… But for vs worldly people to praye And yet the worlde is nowe farre worsse As euery man felyth in his poorsse Than it was at that tyme I dare saye Wherfore the trueth openly to betryde I wolde they shuld laye their prayenge a syde And geue theym selfes to labour bodely ¶ H●…sbandman It were harde to bringe theym therto Vtterly refusynge any labour to do Because they are people gostely ¶ Gentillman Were not the apostles gostely also ¶ Husbandman Yes syr but it is solonge ago That their lyuynge is oute of memorye ¶ Gentillman We fynde it well in the newe testament ¶ Husbandman The clargye saye it is not conuenyent For layemen therwith to be busye ¶ Gentillman Wotest thou wherfore they do that ¶ Husbondman In fayth syr I coniecture somewhat And I suppose I do not m●…che erre Might men the scripture in Englishe rede We secular people shuld than se in dede What Christ and the apostles lyues were Which I dout nothinge are contrarye Vnto the lyuynge of oure clargye S●…uyn to pomp●…us ydlenes euery where Whos abhominacion ones knowen Their pryde shuld besone ouer throwen And fewe wold their statelynes for beare ¶ Gentyllman Thou hyttest the nayle vpon the heed For that is the thinge that they dreed Least scripture shuld come vnto light God commaundyd man in the begynnynge With sweat of vysage to wynne his lyuynge As Moses in his fyrst boke dothe wryte And as Marcke sayeth in the. vi chapter Christe here vpon erthe was a carpenter Not dysdayninge an occupacion Also the disciples vniuersally With their handes laboured busyly Exchewynge ydle conuersacion ¶ Husbandman Oure clargye lyue nothynge after their rate ¶ Gentillman No they seke ydelly to anaunce their estate And to be had in reputacyon ¶ Husb●…ndman Are they worldly 〈◊〉 ●…ely to saye the tr●…the ¶ Gentyllman So god helpe me I●…e we none of bothe As it apperyth by their fasshion For in matters of worldly busynes The clergye haue moche more ●…tresse Than temporall men I ensure the. The landes of lordes and dukes to possesse Thei abasshe not a whit the seculernes Chalengynge tytles of worldly honour But is the realme in any necessyte Where as they shuld condescend of ducte To stande by their prince with succour Than to be of the world they denye Sayenge that their helpe is spiritually From the worlde makinge a separacion ¶ Husbandman Whiles they vse soche craftynes to contryue The temporalte ought theym to depryue Of their worldly dominacyon And euen as they saye that they are gostely So without any assistence worldly To lyue gostely they shuld haue no let ¶ Gentillman That were an expedyent medicyne Accordinge vnto saynt Paules doctryne Qui non laborat non manducet Nowithstanding their power is so stronge That whether they do ryght or wronge They haue their owne will without fayle Their enormytees so ferre out breaketh That all the worlde agaynst theym speaketh But alas man what dothe it avayle ¶ Husbondman The remedy that I can ymagyne Were best that we together determyne To get vs to london incontynent Where as it is here for a suretetolde The kinge with his nobles dothe holde A generall counsell or parlament ¶ Gentillman What woldest thou that we shuld do there ¶ Husbondman The constraynte of oure myserye to declare Under a meke forme of lamentacion ¶ Gentillman So shuld we be sure of soche answeres As were made vnto the poore beggers For their pituous supplicacyon Against whō y e clergyes resons nought worthe The soules of purgatory they brought forthe The beggers complaynte to discomfyte Wherfore against oure peticion I the tell They wold bringe out all the deuells in hell For to do vs some shamefull despyte ¶ Husbondman And was ther none other waye at all But the sonles of purgatory to call In ayde and assistence of the clergye ¶ Gentillman It was the suerest waye by seynt Ihone For had they to playne scripture gone I wousse they hadde be taken tardye The beggers complaynte was so grounded That the clargye hadde be confounded Had they not to purgatory hasted ¶ Husbondman Where sayd they purgatorye shuld be ¶ Gentillman By scripture they shewed no certente Albeit with stowte wordes they it faced Euen like vnto the man which ment A certeyne straunge ylonde to inuent But whan he sawe●… could it not fynd●… Least his wit travaile shuld seme in vayne Reporte of other men he beganne to fayne The symplicite of rude people to blynde But touchinge oure communicacion Ther is another consideracion Which somewhat more troubleth my mynde Thou knowest that in the parlament The chefe of y e clergye are resident In a maruelous great multitude Whos fearce displeasure is so terrible That I iudge it were not possible Any cause against them to conclude As for this ones we shall not be herde And great men I tell the are a ferde With them to haue any doynge Whosoeuer will agaynst them contende Shall be sure of a mischefe in the ende Is he genttllman lorde or kynge And that vnto kynge Ihon I me reporte With other princes lordes a great sorte Whom the cronycles expresse by name Whiles they were a lyue they did them trouble And after their deathe with cruelnes double They ceased not their honour to diffame Dyd not they so longe striue a wrastle Against the good knight syr Ihon oldecastle Other wise called lorde of ●…obham That from hyghe heresye vnto treasone They brought him to fynall destruction With other many a noble man Moreouer at seynt Edmūdes bury some saye That the famous prince duke Humfray By them of his lyfe was abreuiate Sythe that tyme I coulde reckenmo Whom they caused to be dispatched so Parauenture some of no lowe estate ¶ The husbandman Their tyranny is great without fayle Neuerthelesse yf we wold them assayle With argumentes of the holy gospell They shuld n●… be ones able to resiste For the wordes of oure sauiour christe Shuld stoppe them were they neuer so fell Who in the. xxiij chapter of seynt Luke To their great confusyon and rebuke Forbydeth secular ambicion Wherin he himselfe example gaue Contempnynge worldly honour to haue Of this world claymynge no kingdome Also when his disciples forthe he sent He commaunded them to be content With foode and apparayle necessary Wherto saint Paules doctrine accordinge Saieth hauynge mea●… d●…inke and clothinge We shuld no thinge couer super●…uosly ¶ Gentillman Yf the holy gospell allege we shuld As stronge heretike sta●…e vs they would Vnto their churche disobedient For why they haue commaunded straytely That none vnder great payne be so hardye To haue
in englishe the testament Which as thou knowest at London The bisshop makinge ther●… sermon With shamefull blasphemy was bre●… ¶ Husbondeman Alas that cruelte goeth to my hert Wherfor I feare me we shall all sm●…rt At lengthe with bitter punisshment ¶ Gentillman Undouted it is greatly to be fearyd Least the hole region shalbe plagyd For their outragious blasphemy In kynge Henryes dayes of that name y e fyft The clergye their pride aboue to lyft Persecured christen brothers haynously The gospell of Christ a syde to cast Which at that tyme prospered fast With all their puysaūce they dyd conspyre Euery where they threwe theym in presones In sharpe gayles and horrible doungeones Causynge many to be brent in fyre Their furious malice neuer stentyd Tyll they had the light oute quenchyd Of the gospell and holy scripture Wherof all bokes that they could get They caused on a fayre fyre to be set To expell goddes worde doynge their cure But consyder what ther of did chaunce Moste terrible plages of fearfull vengeaunce And endles sorowe to oure nacion For within shorte season after they lost Which many a mans lyfe dyd cost In fraunce their dominacion Amonge them selfes moste hatefull mourdre Many stronge batayles one after another With great effusyon of englisshe bloode Frende against frede brother against brother Euery man at variaunce with other The realme longe season in myschefe stood●… ¶ Husbondman This is nowe a dayes clene oute of mynde ¶ Gentillman I praye god hereafter we do not fynde The same vengeaunce for like offence For as it is in the byble playnely red God left neuer lande yet vnpunished Which agaynst his worde made resistence ¶ Husbondman Well syr yf scripture ye forthe bringe I beseche you what is their answeringe Are they so bolde goddes worde to denye ¶ Gentillman ●…aye but after their ymaginacion They make there of an interpretacion Vnto the texte clene contrary They allege the popes auctorite Customes of auncyent antiquite With diuers counseiles approbacion Also the holynes of religious fathers With the bloode sheadinge of marters For their chirches preservacion Besyde that contynuaunce of yeres Myracles of bishoppes monkes and freres Whom for speciall patrones they holde And fynally to make a conclusion In fortefyenge their abusion Other practyses they vse many folde They resorte to lordes and great estates With whom they are dayly checke mates Ye to saye therrouthe their soucraynes Where amonge other communicacion They admonishe them with protestacion To beware of thes heretikes Lutheranes Whom they saye is a secte newe fangled With execrable heresyes entangled ●…inge the chirches perdicion Which oure fore fathers as wise as we Were contente with humble simplicite To honour obeynge their tuycion Also none presumed till nowe a late Against the clergye to beare any hate Or grudged at their possession ¶ Husbondman By seynt mary syr that is a starcke lye I can shewe you a worcke by and by Against that poynte makinge obiection Which of warantyse I dare be bolde That it is aboue an hundred yere olde As the englishe selfe dothe testifye Whe●… the auctour with argumentes S●…th against the lordshippes rentes Of the clergye possessed wrongfully ¶ Gentillman Is itso olde as thou doest here expresse Reprouynge their pompous lordlynes So is it than no newe found heresy ¶ Husbondman No! but alas halfe the boke we want Hauynge no more left than a remenant From the begynnynge of the. vi chapter verely ¶ Gentillman As for that it maketh no matter Begynne hardely at the sixte chapter Redynge for the to the ende seriously For though old writinges apere to be rude Yet notwithstandinge they do include The pithe of a matter most fructuously ¶ Husbondman To rede it I shall be diligent Though the style be nothinge eloquent With ornate speache set out curiously ¶ Here foloweth an olde trearyse made aboute the tyme of kynge Rycharde the seconde WHere as the clergy perceyueth that lordlynes worldly dominiō can not be borne out biscripture thē flie they to argumentes of mēnes persuasyon sayenge after thys maner Seynt Huge seynt Swithune were thus lor des in this they ensued Christes lyuyng his doctrine therfore we may be laufully thus lordes But I wote well that Gabriel shall blowe his horne or they haue proued the minor That is that thes sayntes or patrones in this sued the doctrine or the lyfe of Iesu Christe And of this thou mayst se that soch argumentes that ar not clothed with Christes lynynge or his teachinge beright nought worthe all though the clerkes blynde with thē moch folke in y t world But here haue Inoleyser to tell though I coulde what chefesaunce and costes the churche maketh and what werres they hold to cōtynue this fymony and heresy so vnavisely brought in to y e chirche And yet they seke all the wayes therto that they can Ye in so moch that they go opēly armyd in to the felde to kyll christen men for to get and holde soche lordshippe And notwithstondynge seynt Peter was so pore that he had nether golde nor syluer as he saieth in the Actes of the apostles And his other worldly good he left whan he beganne to sue Christe And as tow chynge the tytle of worldly lawe that he had to soch worldly goodes he made neuer cley me ne neuer resceyued after any worldly lordshippe And yet they call all their hole kingdom seynt Peters grounde or lordshippe And therfor seynt Bernarde writeth to Engenie y e pope sayenge Yf thou wilt be a lorde seke by a nother waye to attayne it but not by thys apostles ryght For he may not geue the that he had not that he had he gaue the whiche was busynes vpon chirches Whether he gaue lordshippe or no here what he saieth Be ye not lordes in the clergy but be ye made forme and example off Christes flocke And least ye trowe thys be not sayde of trothe take kepe what Christe saieth in y e gospell The kinges of hethen haue lordshippe vpon theym forsot he ye not so Se howe playn ly lordshippe is forboden to all apostles for yf thou be a lorde howe darest thou take vpon the apostleshyp or yf thou be a bysshoppe howe da rest thou take vpon the lordship Pleynly thou art forboden bothe And yf thou wylt haue bothe to get her thou shalt lese bothe and be of the n●…mber of whych god ple●…h by the prophete 〈◊〉 sayenge They reygnyd but not by me sayeth god And yf we holde that that is forbo den here we that is boden of Chryste He that is greatest of you se y t he be made as younger in symplenes and he that is a fore goere loke he be as a seruaunt Thys is y e forme of apostles lyfe lordshyppes forboden ād seruys is boden thys sayeth saynt Bernerdethere And therfor no man may put a nother grounde besydes y t that is put whych is Christe Iesu. But yet I wote well that clarkes