themselues to the Priests Luk. 17. 14. which were also to offer according to the law And this was not long before he suffered You do very fondly imagine the if the Priests the Scribes and Pharisies and Saduces and the multitude which claue vnto them were the visible Church then were there two Churches vnles we will denie that our Sauiour his Disciples were the Church For at y◠time they were all in the same visible Church euen those open wicked and the good Our Sauiour doth reprehend them and layeth open their wickednes to the end that men might beware and not be seduced and kept from truth by them But why are they not cast forth The Prophets in olde time did sharply reprehend the wicked of all sorts in the Church but they had not the ordinary power to execute the censure of excommunication no more had our Sauiour himselfe There be diuers testimonies and examples of the holy scriptures which I alledged to proue this thing which you knitte vp short but in your other booke you deale in them at large And because Master Caluine hath written strongly and plentifully in these matters against the Annabaptists and such as most wickedly did condemne the Churches in his time you take vpon you to confute him as if he were the author of these things and you tearme vs his wretched disciples Whereas in very déede M. Caluine followeth but the steps of the auncient writers Augustine and the rest agaynst the Catharists and Donatists And you lighting into their Tents set very freshly vpon the worke euen as a chiefe Captayne to repayre and fortifie the ruines of that auncient Catharisme and Donatisme and yet can bring nothing which they brought not Touching the reformation by Princes which compell their subiects that professe Christ and haue the seale of the couenant to forsake Idolatrie and to imbrace the holy word and Sacraments I haue spoken before and therefore I come to the 17. page of your booke where you write after this sort The next shiftes these Balaamities haue for the aministring vnto and Communicating with and retaining the prophane in the bosome of their church are certaine arguments drawne by Master Caluine from Matth. 13. against the Annabaptists comparing the church to a corne field where the good seed and the bad grow together to a net and in Matth. 3. To a floar where the corne and the chaffelye together In deed Master Barrow these were speciall places which the auncient Fathers stood vpon against the Donatists and Master Caluine against the Annabaptists and which we in as great right vrge against you and your sect If we bee Balaamites then what was Master Caluine what was Augustine and all the rest Against whome haue you powred foorth your railings Take héede it be not against our Lord Iesus himselfe being against his expresse word for let vs sée how you can auoyde these places Touching the parable of the séed you oppose as you say against Master Caluine and his Disciples first the interpretation of our Sauiour himselfe who saith not that the field is the Church but the field is the world And so the good séed and the bad are together in the world but not in the Church And then you shew an absurditie of flat contradiction of the holy Scriptures which would follow if we take it that the good séed and the bad should grow together in the Church The contradiction is this there is power and commaundement giuen to the Church to cast forth the open wicked and here he bids let them alone Therefore this let them alone let them grow together vntil the haruest must néeds be expounded let them alone and let them grow together in the world but not in the Church In déed your exposition Master Barrow is the very same which the Donatists made and obstinately stoode vpon The field is the world our Sauiour hath said it the truth hath saide it accursed be he that shal gainesay it but to gather from hence that the good séed and the bad shal not be together in the church but in the world is directly to ouerthrow the whole parable For first what is it which is resembled or likened The words are plaine it is the Kingdome of Heauen The Kingdome of Heauen saith he is like c. What is it which is here called the Kingdome of Heauen is the world so called Who dare say so It is the Church in which there is the Gospell of the Kingdome and in which Christ dooth raigne If our Sauiour had ment to sec forth and to resemble the state of the world by the good séed and the bad mingled together as he saith the enemy did sow the tares ana mes◠tou sitou in the middest or among the wheate and that they grew vp together or to say looke how in a field good séede and bad grow together so in the world good men and bad it could not then be saide the Kingdome of Heauen is like but the state of the world is like Was it euer heard of that a man would expound a parable that is a similitude and exclude that which is resembled by the similitude For if the good séed and the bad sowen and growing together in the field do not resemble and set forth the state of the visible church while it is also in the field that is to say in this world mingled of good and bad men shew what there is in the whole parable whereunto the Kingdome of Heauen is likened Moreouer in the exposition of the parable our Sauiour saith as the tares are gathered and burned so shall it be in the end of this world the sonne of man shall send his Angels which shall gather out of his Kingdome all offences and those which worke iniquitie c. If they shall be gathered out of his Kingdome which is his Church peculiarly so called though he be Lord of Heauen and earth then are they vntill the end of the world in his Church I doubt not Master Barrow but that simple men yea poore Children looking vpon this parable and considering what it is likened and how Christ dooth expound it shall bée able to sée what a spirit of giddines God hath in iudgement cast vpon yée for the loftines of your mindes And now for that absurdity of flat cóntradiction in the Scriptures which you imagine if wee expound it that the good and the bad shall bee mingled in the church so long as it is in the field There is no such thing as I will shew by as great an absurdity which will follow of that sense which you giue for speaking of the wicked in the Church if he should say let them alone it would ouerthrow the censures Ecclesiasticall which are expressely commaunded then speaking of the wicked in the world and saying let them alone let them grow together least ye pluck vp the wheat it should ouerthrow the power of Kings and rulers in putting euil dooers to
remembrance the Collect wherein the Priest by the authoritie committed vnto him doth absolue the sick of all his sinnes Indeed you tolde vs that this is most high blasphemie and that nothing can be more popish But learne you Master Barrow by the Scripture and remember that God hath giuen a power to the ministrie of the Gospell to forgiue sinnes The power indeede is but ministeriall and so the booke it selfe declareth where it sayth He hath giuen power and commandement to his ministers to declare and pronounce to his people being penitent the absolution and remission of their sinnes Other power in the minister to forgiue sinnes then this the booke alloweth none How the Pope doth challenge this power to himselfe as head and how from him it must be deriued vnto all Ministers how farre also he hath extended it and how horribly and blasphemously he hath abused it I will not stand to shewe Then next you say I must not forget the two Collects sayd ouer our dead brother The one in which we say that God of his mercie hath taken away the soule of our brother c. This is not ment but where the partie dieth in the profession of the faith and repentance nor yet absolutely to pronounce him saued but in a charitable manner of speach to iudge of him as he professed I doo not take it the meaning of the booke that it should be vttered of such as make no profession of the holy faith for why then should he be called a brother or vpon whome God doth shewe his fearefull iudgement if it be otherwise it may be a fault but not blasphemie The other is that we pray for the soule of our brother departed where we say that wee with this our brother and all other departed in the true faith may haue our perfect consummation and blisse both in body and soule Prayer for the dead is a grosse error but yet not simply in it selfe an heresie or blasphemie and our Church dooth vtterly condemne it as a grosse error And therefore Master Barrow you do still but belye the booke which directeth herein to pray onely for our selues liuing and not for the dead For if the mention of receiuing blisse with that brother departed were to pray for him then should it be meant that wée would also pray for the soules of Abraham Isaack and Iaakob of the Prophets and Apostles because they are included in these words with all other departed in the true faith In the third place you are so kinde that as you say to helpe my memorie a little further you will mee to consider better of that glorious Anthem which wee say at our Communion that we with Angels and Archangels and all the companie of heauen lawd and magnifie c. Here you will not demaund how wee remaining in the flesh can haue such familiar conuersation with those heauenly Souldiers that together with them wee can praise God You will not demaund that is you doo in a fine retoricall sort demaund it but the finenes of this retoricke will not couer the sottishnes of your ignorance For albeit men in earth haue not familiar conuersation with Angels yet they prayse God together with them in as much as both men and Angels do lawd and magnifie him And therefore the Prophet Psal 103. calling vppon all things to prayse the Lord ioyneth the Angels saying Praise the Lord ye Angels which are strong in power Reade also for this the first chapter of the Reuel verl 12 13 14. Then you will not presse vs with papisticall speculations of making degrees of Angels and Archangels c. In very deede you cannot but with falsehood presse our Church with that But you demaund how many Archangels we reade of and finde in the Scriptures and whether wee knowe of any more heads of Angels then Christ himselfe We knowe and constantly professe that there is but one head of Angels which is Christ And we condemne the popish curiositie in searching into the degrees and orders of Angels which is not learned out of the holy Scriptures but from that counterfeit Dionisius Areopagita And if that Michael the Archangel which stroue with the diuell about the body of Moses and durst not giue rayling sentence were Christ yet S. Paule speaketh of an Archangell besides Christ when he sayth The Lord himself shal come downe from heauen with the voyce of the Archangell and with the trumpe of God 1. Thess 4. vers 16. What blasphemie then Master Barrow is there in the booke which speaketh but as the Scripture and you may see plainly that to be a chiefe Angell or an Archangell is not to be the head of Angels The sainctifying the floud Iordain and all other waters to the mysticall washing away of sinne is none other way to be taken then to say that bread and wine are sainctified to represent the body and bloud of Christ All the creatures of God are sainctified to our vse as the blessed Apostle speaketh Touching Michael and all Angels we do not worship Angels nor yet make Christ a creature You say that in the Letanie there is prayer for all that trauaile by sea or by land for all that be sicke for all sicke persons therefore we pray for Gods enemies for the breach of all order and destruction both of Church and common wealth This is but a vayne collection when prayer is intended for such as are prayed for that they may be turned from their euill Also when this word all is vsed it goeth with this restraint all that belong vnto God for so is Saint Paule to be also restrayued vnto all sorts of men which belong vnto God when he willeth to pray for al men 1. Tim. 2. You demaund where wee learne to pray agaynst lightning and thunder tempest plague famine battaile c. when there is no present feare or danger thereof Then it seemeth by your words that wée may intreate the Lord to turne away none of his grieuous and feareful plagues but when they be vpon vs We sée there are euer anon some which are stricken with thunder and when the clap is past it is too late to pray for them Againe the praiers of the Church are for all the true members thereof wheresoeuer and if wee our selues bee not in this present neede yet others are and wée may be if God turne not a way his displeasure these praiers are not to restraine the Lord the vse of his creatures or that he should not by them destroy his enemies these bee no sound collections Unles you will argue thus the Lord afflicteth his Church by persecutions by famine and pestilence c. for their good and for the glory of his owne name therefore the church ought not to pray to be deliuered from those things Wée are willed to be alwaies ready for death and suddaine death cannot preuent any one of the faithfull I doo confesse But yet wée estéeme it a great comfort a great blessing for
by true repentance Thus farre be your wordes Master Barrow Alas poore creatures how much is your siely blindnes to bee pitied that can set down things so directly contrary at the same instant yet espieit not for you say that Circumcision in their Apostasie was no true Sacrament vnto them neither sealed the Lordes couenant vnto them in that estate And yet you say it was true Circumcision concerning the outward cutting Likewise you say that Baptisme in the poperie cannot bee saide a true Sacrament or seale of Gods couenant vnto them And yet concerning the outward washing ye confesse it true Baptisme Is not this all one as if a man should say it is the true sacrament and seale of Gods couenant it is no true Sacrament nor seale of Gods couenant I pray you M. Barrow is not the outward washing the whole Baptisme and the whole seale of Gods couenant Was not the outward cutting the whole circumcision and the whole seale of Gods couenant And if the outward washing be the whole Sacrament and the whole seale of Gods couenant as indeede with the word it is for the inward grace is no part of the Sacrament but we may say that this inward grace is the thing represented and sealed by the Sacrament Then when you say concerning the outward washing it is true Baptisme doo you not affirme the whole Sacrament and so the whole seale of Gods couenant to be true But you say it is no true seale vnto them in their Apostasie or it doth not seale Gods Couenant vnto them in that estate but when the abuse thereof is purged away by true repentance What absurde speeches be these can a man deuife more grosse folly the outward true Sacrament is the true seale of Gods couenant euen vnto those which be hypocrites and vtterly voyde of fayth which haue it For if we shall say it is no true Sacrament or no seale of Gods couenant or that it doth not seale Gods couenant but vnto those which haue the inward grace the efficacie and fruite thereof then was it sometimes no true Sacrament which the Apostles themselues did administer because there were some vnto whome they did administer both the holy Baptisme and the Lords Supper which had not the inward grace And if the Sacraments be not the true seales of Gods Couenant euen vnto those which haue no fruite thereby how should the receiuers which are vtterly vnworthie be guiltie of the body and blood of our Lord Also when a man doth receiue Baptisme which is alwayes the seale of Gods couenant and is voyde of fayth and receiueth it at their handes which doo mixe it with sundry additions and corruptions and after commeth vnto true faith he himselfe is purged by his fayth and hath the vse of that seale which hee had before but without fruite we cannot say as you doo but with most wicked and foule absurditie that the Sacrament it selfe was a false Sacrament and now through sayth is purged and became a true Sacrament That which is the Lordes doth stand in it selfe pure and vndeâ—iled euen when corruptions bee added The Wheat in it self is as pure lying among the Chaffe as when it is purged from the Chaffe The golde and siluer in themselues be as pure when the rust is vpon them as when it is scowred off If a thing in the mixture of corruptions haue not a true being ye cannot by purging bring it to haue a true being And when you say that concerning the outward washing it is true Baptisme ministred in popery which is as much as I haue shewed as to say it is a true sacrament concerning the whole because the outward washing is the whole and therefore all that Iohn the Baptist taketh to himselfe is this I baptize ye with water Doo you not acknowledge a ministrie in popery Will you say it is concerning the outward washing true Baptisme by whomesoeuer it bee done Nay you say where there is no true ministrie there is no true Sacrament Then where there is no part of a true ministrie there is no part of a true Sacrament In your other booke Master Barrow which you tearme a briefe discouerie of the false Church from the 102. page vnto 121. you make a large discourse about this point taking vppon you to bee a stickeler betwéene Master Doctor Some and the Scholler of Oxenford writing against him in defence of Master Penrie There you lay about you with your woodknife vpon both parties Master Doctor Some holding the Baptisme administred in the popery to be true Baptisme alleaging that Master Caluine held so as in déede all the Churches and all the most excellent and worthy lights which God hath raised vp in these last times doo hold the same with sound reasons from the Scripture you scoffingly tearme him a great Clarke and say that in certaine marginal notes added to his booke this inconuenience was moued vnto his further consideration how hee would auoyde the blowe of flat Schisme Also you say he was friendly aduised to spare this deepe diuinitie deriued from Master Caluine and others of this time leaft hâ—e should open such a gappe to the Papistes as neither the Church of England nor Geneua nor any other that hold this opinion shall euer be able to shut for if it be true Baptisme deliuered in the Church of Rome then will it follow that the Popish priests be true ministers And then may the seale of the couenant be giuen to open Idolaters then dooth Gods couenant of peace belong to the babilonish harlot then hath Christ many bodies or else cannot three so diuers Churches as the Church of Rome the Church of England the Church of Geneua all or any two of them I will not say any one bee true Churches TheÌ„ he may be an husband where his wiues rule Infinit other absurdities would then proue lawful And let me adde yet this vnto the rest if the Baptisme of the Church of Rome be a true Sacrament then haue they one true Sacrament and another false Thus you wound the one party that is Master Doctor Some Then touching the Scholler of Oxenford hée is blamed for that he alleageth for his patron Master Doctor Fulke to proue that the Baptisme administred in popery is no true Baptisme And he is set to counteruaile Master Caluin as his equall in all learning Grieuous absurdities you shew in déede which must néeds follow from the opinion of the foresaid Scholler Touching the comparison betwéene Master Fulke and Master Caluine for my part I am not so learned as that I can bring a full measure to measure them iustly withall I know not what might slip from Doctor Fulke in any part of his writings vpon some occasion which may séeme as though he fauored that opinioÌ„ but this I know that sundry times crauing his iudgement in that matter he held it to be true Baptisme which hath béen administred in the popery And what a thing is this Master Barrow that
in England and planted a true Church And therefore if you deale rightly you must proue against vs. I haue shewed that popery did not vtterly destroy the visible Church And there be at this day multitudes that so walke in the holy fayth that no man is able to accuse them And therefore if either all or the most part of Schismatikes were not obstinate cauillers their mouthes might be stopped for euer Thus much might fuffice agaynst that you affirme our people neuer had any entrance to be vnder the couenant and so to stand the visible Church but to be as heapes of prophane heathen but that your matter reacheth further then against the assemblies in England condemning other Churches which professe the holy Gospel And least some may think that in this poynt I charge ye but by some hard collection in so horrible presumption as to condemne all Christian Churches I will recite the wordes which you haue set downe in your other booke pag. 33. where after long discourse agaynst the reasons which Master Caluine vseth both out of the olde and new Testament to proue that neither the worship it selfe nor the faythfull are defiled by the company of the open wicked you speake thus This and such like detestable stuffe hath Master Caluine in his ignorance partly to confute that damnable sect of Annabaptists which fantastically dreame vnto theÌ„selues a Church without spot in this life and for euery transgression that ariseth are ready to leaue forsake the felowship of the Church without due and orderly reproofe Partly also is this stuffe brought to defend his owne rash and disorderly proceedings at Geneua whilest hee at the first dash made no scruple to receiue all the whole state euen all the prophane ignorant people into the bosome of the Church to administer the Sacraments vnto them which confuse route could not fit with Christs heauenly gouernement neither could it by any meanes agree vnto them in this estate But that monstrous disorders and haynous enormityes dayly ensued thereof whereby this their Church became a iust reproch vnto all men euen to those wicked Heretikes yea that which is worse and more to be lamented it became a miserable president and pernitious example euen vnto all Europe to fall into the like transgression as the confused estate of all those regions where the Gospell is thus disorderly taught declareth Let the Reader here consider Master Barrow what a worthie Champion you â—re become for the Papists for Heretickes and Schismaticks agaynst all the Churches which professe the Gospell and agaynst all their teachers What was Master Caluine to bee regarded if he were so ignorant so rash and so disorderly in his doings How miserable was his case that he must be so pernitious an example to the ruine of many What is or what hath the Church of Geneua been and together with the assemblies of England all Churches in Europe but heapes of prophane multitudes no better then heathen or dogs if your words be true True Christ they haue none for they fit not his gouernment nor his gouernment them as you say But Master Barrow as the Churches and their ministers haue been able haue iustly defended themselues though not from all faults because there is no Church so pure agaynst the wisest and learnedst reuiling Rabsakaes the Hereticks and Schisinaticks so must you thinke that they shall be able to withstand two or thrée which are so ignorant in some grounds of religion as that their bookes are a bundle or rather a dunghill of absurdities Whom shal you euer perswade that hath any true light that your knowledge so farre passeth the learned of all Churches Were it not honour enough for ye to triumph ouer the ministers of the Church of England whom so often in disdayne you terme learned Priests but ye must be generall conquetors like Alexander the great Faine you would seeme to bee farre from the Annabaptists but how néere you are vnto them euen in their tents all that haue skill doo see Well then to conclude this poynt he that will finde a true Church with which he may ioyne himselfe he must not seeke it in the publike assemblies either in England Scotland Geneua or any region of Europe for by your iudgement they be all prophane heapes but he must seeke the fellowship and ioyne with the Donatists of England Now to the second part of the assumption where you say that the Church of England hath power to cast foorth none by excommunication I am of the minde that Christ hath giuen such a power to his Church and also doo take it that the Church of England is not boyd thereof But you condemne all excommunication which is not executed by an Eldership and the people of euery particular assemblie If excommunication be onely to bee so executed then how could Esra with the Elders and Princes of Israel publish an excommunication generall against euery one that should not within three dayes come vp to Ierusalem Esra 10. vers 8. And where doo you proue that excommunication is to be executed vpon any but for contumacie and contempt of the Church Doo you hold that a man which doth repent him for his adulterie these heresie or such like and is cast downe in sorrowe is yet to be deliuered vp to Satan If not why doo you vpbrayd that there is none cast foorth among vs but for contumacie In the next place you take vpon you to confute and cut downe foure false expositions as you say of Math. 18. vers 17. Tell the Church The first sort take the word Church for the Pope the second for the Archbishops and Bishops which exercise this power for the whole Church the third for the companie of the Elders apart from the people which they call the Consistorie the fourth are they which would haue the people excommunicate without the Elders The two first sorts that is the Pope and the Bishops doo depend you say vppon one line and build their preheminence vpon the promise made to the Apostle Peter Math. 16. vers 18. 19. where the keyes of the kindome of heauen are giuen him And vpon the Apostle Paul his example who deliuered Hymeneus and Alexander vnto Satan Timoth. 5. 10. You are so learned and skilfull Master Barrow yea so trustie and true that wee must holde them for Oracles that doo proceede out of your mouth although indeed they be neuer so false as shall appeare Touching the place in Mat. 16. for the keyes giuen vnto Peter it is agreed vpon by all parts that there is a power giuen to be exercised in the Church The disagréement is chiefly about this to whom it is giuen The Pope with his adherents sayth it was giuen onely vnto Peter and his successors He sayth further that Peter was Bishop of Rome that there is his chaire and that this power is annexed to that chaire and so the Pope alone is to haue it and from him all other are to participate which
the Churches doo in some things differ about the manner of calling and ordaining ministers how you or any other by this can proue all to be void would be seene Then next the ministry of the Church of England is the ministry of reconsiliation bringing no doctrine but the doctrine of the holy Scriptures Here ye cauill foolishly that although they exercise an office yet they hauing no true calling doo it but as priuate men Luther and Caluine and all the rest which haue preached the Gospell in these times ye confesse in some small measure according to that little which they did see nothing comparable to that you haue attained haue vttered the truth but yet as priuate men Here besides your wicked barking against the ministry of all Churches which God hath ratified your ignorance is to be noted in this that you doo not know that if a man enter not rightly into a publick office yet the office it selfe is not destroyed as if a King haue but vsurped the crown yet he is a King while he be deposed It is more then foolish that ye say we haue a leiturgy or prescript forme of praier therfore we bring other doctrine besides the Scriptures Thirdly the ministry of the Church of England dooth bring men to faith there being ioyned with it the effectual power and blessing of the holy Ghost c. In answering this Master Barrow yee fall into your former stincking puddle into which yée draw many a rash ignorant man I meane ye vtterly deny with the vngodly Swinckfeldians all the whole efficacy power and blessing which God hath annexed vnto the ministry of the Gospell Here is a great patch set on to help the Papists how by this also ye say they may reason to proue their ministry and Church to be such as they that separate themselues must néeds be Schismatikes Why Master Barrow do you not know that as God made a promise to his Church to the end of the world and hath giuen gifts a ministry to continue euen to the worlds end to build it for Saint Paule saith this ministry is giuen vntill we all meete together in the vnity of faith which cannot bee vntill the last day that the whole number be accomplished Ephes 4. 13. So hee hath alwaies reserued not only some ministry in the popery but also in all times some godly ministers How little help this bringeth to the Papists or all those sound points or doctrine that remained and do remaine among them to proue that the Churches which haue forsaken them are but Schismatikes or that the Churches should not cast foorth the vsurped power of Antichrist I thinke children might be made to sée and vnderstand for although they hold sundry points of the faith yet they quite subuert the holy faith And whereas the Apostleship and ministry of Saint Paule being called into question he vseth this reason vnto those which had receaued the faith and power of the holy Ghost by his ministry If I be not an Apostle vnto others yet am I vnto you I said the same is to be made the defence of the ministry of the Churches at this day vnto all such as by the publick preaching of the word and administration of the Sacraments are called vnto an assured faith and comfort in God and vnto vnfeined repentance For let all these iudge whether there be no efficacy power in the publick administratioÌ„ of the word and Sacraments more then from the mouth of any priuat person Vnto this you answer is too foule and beastly for ye say it wâ—l fit the Papists against vs and then I say it might fit the false Apostles against S. Paule For if the Papists can or may as well say though wee bee no ministers of Christ vnto other yet vnto you that féele the comfort and power of our doctrine and ioy in it we are ministers of Christ Then might the false Apostles in like manner haue risen vp against S. Paul and spoken the same vnto those which delighted to heare them Is there no difference betwéene that power of the Gospell that assurance of faith of peace and ioy in the holy Ghost and of vnfained feare of God and repentance which it worketh and that blinde zeale and comfort which hereticks and Papists haue in false doctrine and superstition Will ye confound all When ye pronounce that there is no such faith nor repentance nor ioy in the holy Ghost nor peace of conscience wrought in the hearts of any by the ministry of our Church how far aboue the clouds doth your swelling blind pride lift vp her hands Let al such as haue felt the effectual calling of God beare witnes in this matter In the fourth I alleadged that the Martyrs which suffered in the dayes of Quéene Marie were moued and brought to fayth repentance at the preaching of Master Latimer Taylor Hoper Bradford and others Your replie is that this reason standeth vpon popish and Annabaptisticall grounds For popisâ—â—â— don alleadge 〈…〉 as many martyrs his predecessors Let me then aske this question when it is confessed that they were holy martyrs died for the true faith will it not follow if the Pope could prooue that the Church of Rome had held still that holy fayth that it should bee the true Church We hold the same fayth with the holy Martyrs The motions ye say at our preachings are but the illusioÌ„s of Sathan and this is the cause that you account the reason to be Annabaptisticall God is highly to be blessed who hath so ratified the effectual power of the ministrie of his word in the hearts of many thousands both in this land and in other countries with such assurance and constancie of faith that the whole power of SathaÌ„ out of the mouthes of papists Annabaptists Schismatiks and frantick persons is not able to bring it into doubt Lastly I did aduise men to be somewhat moued with the iudgement of other Churches This you say is an old popish reason M. Barrow it is not popish at all vnto such as shall consider that the Churches with these principal instruments which God rayseth vp as lights doo discusse matters by the Scriptures men are to seeke for the truth at their handes But I must tell yee it is the trick of all ranck heretikes and schismaticks to despise the iudgement of the Churches Shall we think that a few ignorant rash men haue receiued such light from God as al the most noble instruments raysed vp haue not Thus ye haue answered no one reason which I brought but only with vaine yea more then vayne cauills The foule reproachfull speeches which yee vse to deface all the ministers of Christs Gospell both of other Churches of the Church of England are so many and that in sundry places of your bookes but specially in your Discouery from pag. 140. vnto pag. 187. that hee that will search all that is written of the Catharists the Donatists Annabaptists and sundry