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A40256 Something in answer to a book called Fiat lux being a discourse between a papist and a Protestant &c. who writes at the bottom of the title page, J.V.C. : also something in answer to the papists queries. Fox, George, 1624-1691. 1667 (1667) Wing F1910; ESTC R25206 11,959 18

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is able to bring him down again for he is of the Image part Iron part Clay which I would have him to expound What good doth your Confession do where there is not amendment For what People under the Sun are more Envious Proud Drink Swear Curse and many unclean Actions found in and amongst as yours be And whereas thou sayest Page 232. The Confession nor any beginning thereof cannot be found out Answ Therefore you go upon a foundation which had 〈◊〉 bottom for in the beginning in the Primitive times the Apostles did not set up any Confessors therefore you are shut out of their Practice And whereas thou speakest Of inflicting penalties of Scourging or Death upon Delinquents though they be never so sorry for their Offence Answ In this is much Ignorance because that you and others have persecuted one another to Death because you would not conform to one anothers Religion which shews you are like Nebuchadnezzar and worse then the Jewes in some respect for did they Persecute any of the Heathen to death because they would not joyn to their Religion Though in one respect you are like unto the Jewes who said Come let us kill the Heir and the Inheritance shall be ours And were not they called Murderers And have not you crucified Christ afresh and put him to an open shame As instance the Pope Eugenius who caused the King of Poland to break his Oath and League with the Turk upon which he lost a great part of Christendom who seldom got any thing by fighting or plotting with his Carnal weapon But if the Papists had been true Christians they would have loved one another and have loved Enemies But there is no mercy from you although a man be never so sorry for his Offence but Death and Scourging but thy thoughts and mind are not the Lords who desireth not the death of a sinner but would have him repent and live And therefore What hast thou to do to take the Name of the Lord into thy mouth and hatest to be reformed And as for the Apostle Paul's words which he spake as in the person of Christ what is that to your practice who speak in the spirit of Satan as ye may look over your words and actions in Fox's Acts and Monuments and the Council of Trent and other Books who shewed another spirit and life than Christ and the Apostles for Christ came to save mens lives not to destroy them as ye have done who do not know what spirit ye are off And whereas thou speakest Of some places where the People are on their knees at Prayer all the week long and our Churches are not so in England Answ Ye were not at your Prayers all the week long when ye had power in England and were burning the Martyrs to ashes up and down at Stakes The Wolf is seen though he hath the Sheeps cloathing on his back thou canst not be hid but the wise and prudent see and comprehend thee and the prayers of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord. For hath it not been a Fist of wickedness that ye have lifted up these many hundred years Doth not and hath not your actions declared and spoken them abroad in the ears of sober People Where is the House of Prayer thou speakest of Is it the Temple at Jerusalem which thou art wandring to That 's down according to Christ's Prophesie And the Apostles say Our Bodies are the Temples of the holy Ghost and in the Holy Ghost we are to pray And is not that the Temple set above all houses made with hands and so the Apostle saith we must pray in the Spirit and so we must pray in the Temple but this I doubt thou canst not read with thy Spectacles on And whereas thou sayest Ye have kept your Mass and Bible in an unknown Tongue and yet you call your selves Catholick Answ This is not Catholick from the Apostle for he was against them that spake in an unknown tongue that was not to edification and he reproves it so ye are come under the reproof of the Apostle And the Apostle sent Epistles to be read to the Churches in their age and now you that have put the Bible in an unknown Tongue and kept your people under teaching ever since Boniface the third are not your People capable yet to have the Scriptures read to them in their own Tongue This manifests your Popish Teachers bad and your Peoples ignorance and your own deceit and fear of your selves if the people should have them in their own Tongue they would see you And whereas you make a distinction of Lay people and Spiritual and yet all Believers if they were so indeed they would be all born of God And the Apostles in the Primitive time made no such distinction as Lay people and Spiritual among Believers c. as ye do But ye have been in the dark and your works are all in the dark and so ye keep the Scripture from the people in their own Tongue whereby they might come to know the Truth And the holy Scriptures are a better Book than any ye can make which stands over you and your Mass Book As for all your perverting Scriptures thereby thinking to bend them to your Traditions and Images they that have a single eye fees it 's to no purpose And as for calling upon Saints Angels and Martyrs to pray for you to have mercy upon you for which you have neither Scripture nor Example from the Apostles And wheras thou ignorantly and pervertingly bringest Davids words and Daniels for the praying to Angels c. and the Sun and Moon David nor none of the Saints nor Martyrs of old did call to the Sun Moon Angels or Saints but they called for all things to praise the Lord for whilst they were living the Saints prayed one for another but to pray to Saints departed is like Sauls going to the Witch of Endor to ask counsel of the Dead which was forbidden by the Law of God So in this you are ignorant both of Law and Gospel Many other frivolous things thou hast in thy Book not worth reading or answering But one thing further whereas thou saiest The Church of Rome is the Mother Church Was not the Church of Jerusalem before the Church of Rome was Read the Scriptures And was not the Church at Constantinople preferred before the Church of Rome Read over the Histories again And for the Church of Rome being either Mother Church Holy Church or Church of God her actions and deeds testifie against her she 's none of the Church of Christ though she pretend for Christ yet she is against Christ his Faith Spirit and Life and so Antichrist her deeds and works have spoken it which all that be in the Light Spirit and Life of Christ have seen and heard And how can ignorant people but smile at you as thou saiest who make Bread and Wine God which will sowre and corrupt Some Scriptures follow here
and Bishop Bonner who answered by Fire and Faggot to the destruction of the Righteous for that hath been your way of answering but this hath never been the work of the Church of Christ nor of godly Rulers as thou speakest of And whereas thou sayest in Page 93. The Holy Church hath alwayes in all Ages forbidden her Children to Dispute the Principles of Religion in the sence they had received them Answ This is the Papists Church not the Holy Church and its Principles and it is false as to the Holy Church they were to be ready to give an account to every man of the Hope that is in them with meekness and fear which Hope is Christ And the Apostle declared plainly when brought before the Magistrates how Christ appeared to him and how he was sent to Preach And the true Church was to contend for the Faith which was delivered to the Saints and they were to speak in the same sence of Faith which they had received For the Apostles said They were to warn every man that they might present every man perfect in Christ Jesus And so it 's plain that the Apostles and the Prophets spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost in the sence of what they received And whereas thou sayest That all Christians are to acknowledge a new Pope c. To which we Answer No. The Christians that now are as also in the Primitive times are Brethren and it is not among them as it was amongst the Apostates which are as the Gentiles who exercise Lordship one over another and those that do so are by you and them called Gracious Lords But Christ saith It shall not be so amongst you meaning his Disciples for ye are Brethren and ye have but one Master even Christ And as the Apostle saith In the world there are many Lords but to us there is but one even the Lord Jesus Christ who is Head of the Church Yea Head of that Church which the Saints upon the Earth then and which we now are Members of who is our Head the same to day yesterday and for ever though he is not so to the Papists And whereas thou speakest That by reason of the great obscurity of things we are led into so many differences Answ What is the reason indeed you with others are so dark and obscure that you are not in the same Spirit and Power that the Apostles were in and being out of it you go into so many Sects and Divisions And whereas thou speakest Of learning the Foundation upon which Faith is built To which we Answer Your works and others do testifie that you have forsaken both Foundation good Conscience and Faith that works by Love for the Historical or dead Faith works by hatred and the foundation of that is the Adversary the Devil And whereas thou speakest In England of some that pretend to a new Light To which we Answer That Christ is the Light who is the new and living Way It 's indeed a new way to you who are apostatized from the Light which the Apostles were in and the Life and Spirit the fruits whereof are Love c. But ye have manifested another spirit and fruits As remember the Burning in Smithfield and Cruelties in other parts as the Massacre in Ireland and other parts of the world your putting to death for your Religion which the Apostles did not for their Religion which Light of Christ was their Light which is now sprung up in England is become a new Light unto you who are workers of Darkness And whereas thou sayest The Quakers words are jumbled together so that every Line hath no sence in it and thou resemblest them to the Turks Alkaron To which we answer To you the Prophets Apostles and Christs words are not sense for if they were then what need you thrust all these words of small Letters into the Books of the Old and New Testament called the Itallick Letter signifying that they are no more sence to you than the Quakers Books who make an addition to them Therefore we do not strange at thy saying That our Writings are nonsence but we can say to you as Solomon saith That our words are all plain to him that is of Understanding And as for the Turkish Alkaron Whose Writings are nearer unto them than the Papists are Set all your old Images aside which you have neither out of the Old Testament nor of the New but from your own dreaming conceit that you speak of And whereas thou speakest Of the Presbyterian falling out with the Protestant and calling him a Fanatick the Catholick coming by and seeing them doth hope that they may come to their Goods again c. A. You want power to set up your Fire and Fagots again and you long after your Tythes and great Monastries and Gleab Land c. For if you had minded the good of Peoples souls why would so many thousands of you have turned from your Religion as your Priests and others in Queen Elizabeths dayes did And as for Fanatick-wrath fury rage and madness who hath manifested this spirit since the Apostles dayes more then you yea upon such as have professed the Name of Christ And while you and other Sects are falling out Truth will arise over all your heads as it was in England and other parts before the Pope and his Mass-Book or you Papists were And as for Catholick your actions and fruits have declared and testified against you to deny the Catholick Faith that works by Love and the Catholick Gospel and the Catholick Church with its Catholick Head And the Quakers have to war in the Spirit of God with you and also with all such as are in your Dreggs and be out of the same Spirit that the Prophets and Apostles were in And to the Querie in Page 188. We Answer That neither Protestants nor you have lived in Vnity these several hundred years for you have laid more stumbling blocks to hinder the spreading of Christianity then ever did Jezabel by Baals Priests And as for telling you of several hundred years it was above 600 years after Christ before any Universal Bishop got up And then the Turk got up after the Pope and he got from him near as much as all Christendom and then did not he lose Germany England Ireland Scotland Denmark Sweden and the Low-Coutries yea and Egypt Jerusalem and other parts that way and part of France and yet will not the Pope tell us that he is Head of the Church and that the Gates of Hell shall not prevaile against him And what strivings were there in Italy and Spain and other places before you set up your Inquisitions about the time of the Council of Trent And as for your Vaity let us tell you if you have forgotten Did the Waldenses ever joyn to you after the Pope got up Nay did not they gall him more then all and did not he send a Prince to destroy them and did not the