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A85342 Good counsel in bad times, or, A good motion among many bad ones being a discovery of an old way to root out sects and heresies and an earnest desire for a complyance with all men to settle peace with justice : as also a relation of a remarkable piece of justice done by Duke William called the Good : likewise an epistle to the reader / by John Musgrave ... Musgrave, John, fl. 1654.; Baudouin, François, 1520-1573. 1647 (1647) Wing G1041A; ESTC R36608 23,472 37

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their Faith and forbearing all outward violence he sought by all policy to hinder their increase wherein he prevailed much more for that some through covetousness others through ambition suffered themselves to be perswaded to that whereunto they could not be forced by any violence or threats I will not compare here this new kind of Doctrine which is now in question with the Pagan Religion for it is not my intention to interpose my censure but I will onely conclude that in that which consisteth in the perswasion of the heart corporal violence prevaileth no more then the vapour of wind that blows to hinder the heat of the fire And daily experience hath taught us The means then to divert them from their opinions is to perswade them that their faith and belief is not conformable to the word of God To effect the which there is no other means then to give them free audience to the end that they may propound their reasons and motives with all liberty and that they be confuted of error and herefie by the Word of God If they remain obstinate yet when this disputation and instruction shall be performed in the eye of the World those that are weak shall by this means be perswaded not to follow their errors for as for the obstinate even as instruction would avail them little or nothing so much less would fire or death turn them from their resolved opinions But on the other side those which behold others to die with such constancy take a delight to seek the opinions and they which by this means came to fall in the like inconveniences should be wholy preserved when they should hear them vanquished by the word of God and by reasons which they cannot contradict If then Prelats and Bishops trust in the bounty of their cause as with all reason they ought There is not in the world a better means to attain unto the Kings intention and to prevent the multiplying of Sects then to confer together publickly that all the world may know that the others do falsly bragg that they have the word of God on their side for it is most certain that when truth is compared with falshood she must of necessity shew her beauty and obtaine the Victory discovering to the eye of all men what is false and counterfeit and by this means a great good shall rise for that they which now know not what to follow in so great a diversity of opinions may settle a firm judgment of the Truth after that they have heard the grounds of either side so as in conference all confusion and disorder all noise and rayling be laid aside As wee have seene in the disputations and conferences which Saint Paul hath made aswell with the Jews as against the Pagans then presently those which sought the truth knew that he had reason and that the other were in errour so in the Councels of Nicene the Arrians were admitted to propound their reasons and grounds with all liberty and being convicted by the word of God of error and heresie were forced for a time to desist from their enterprise but presently after when they presecuted them they had many disciples some moved by pittie some by their false perswasions the which was the cause of great mischiefs and inconveniences in the Church Yea in our time we have seene in all places where the Anabaptists have beene persecuted they have increased infinitely And contrariwise where they have been heard in publique conference and disputation and convicted of errour and heresie by the word of God they have had no more tredit in the world And therefore Mabomet hath so carefully forbidden that they should never dispute upon the points of Religion brought in by him knowing well that the truth being once confronted against his lyes his doctrine of necessity must goe to smoake It s a true marke and a badge of truth that it desires to be known made manifest and debated being like unto the Palm tree the more it is deprest and charged the higher and steighter it growes For this reason the ancients did appoint to hold free and generall Councels every yeare although by the corruption of time many abuses have beene brought in by the ambition and covetousnesse of those that should give their Voyces So it is that the Hereticks and Sectaries feare nothing in the World more then to be made manifest be it by a free and general councel or in any other place where as matters may be freely debated on either side the which we see at this day apparently in the Anabaptists who fly all disputations more then death If then those which desire to root out this new Religion which multiplies so fast are assured of the bounty and truth of their cause and of the falshood of their Adversaries There is no fitter means then to come publickly to field and to give their adversaries free audience and leave to dispute without doubt if they maintaine herefies there shall neede neither fire nor gibbets to hinder the course of their doctrine for that the more manifest it is the more it will decay It will be to no purpose to say that they have been often heard and confuted for admit it were so yet a great multitude of people which are inclined thereunto deserve so much paine as to bee instructed in hearing and examining their reasons but when you have said all they were never heard with patience for when as Luther began to preach this doctrine in Germany it was presently condemned by the Pope and persecuted by all the Kings and Princes of Christendome he was once called to be heard but it was to see if hee would recant or maintaine his writings and his doctrine And he on the other side protested nothing more then the desire hee had to bee better taught and instructed by the holy Scripture The like proceeding was held against Iohannes Husse at the councel of Constance who was never heard in his own defence but assoon as he was arrived there they laid before him certain Articles drawn by some adversary of his out of his books asking him if he would maintain those Articles which were reproved and condemned by the holy Church and thereupon they gave sentence that he was an heretick and damned the which the world sees to be against all right and reason To say that those were condemned by other Councels before is nothing to the purpose for if it be so as they say it will be the more easie to overthrow them now for that the ancients have never condemned any doctrine but that which they held contrary to the word of God the which they have alledged to that effect I say to confute errours and heresies So as now the way shall be traced and they shall need only to quote the same scriptures to confute these for that the word of God remaineth eternally and the scripture hath now as much force and vertue to confute heresies as ever But to