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A14828 A dialogue betwixt a secular priest, and a lay gentleman. Concerning some points objected by the Iesuiticall faction against such secular priests, as haue shewed their dislike of M. Blackwell and the Iesuits proceedings.. Mush, John.; Watson, William, 1559?-1603. 1601 (1601) STC 25124.5; ESTC S101830 96,830 158

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all them of the Spanish faction in Rome the hope wherewith he dayly feedeth them of bringing this to passe by his owne pollicies and the helpes he can procure in England causeth them to admire the man and him to be most highly esteemed among them Gent. It is very ridiculous if they should bee so simple as to think Fa. Parson to be able when the day commeth to set the crowne of England vpon whose head it pleaseth him or that he should haue so strong a partie in England as are of power to beare the best game away and dispose thereof at his pleasure Priest They neuer heard that hee was sonne to a blacke-smiths wife but take him perhaps to be some nobleman and allied with many great ones And indeed for his imperious carriage he may easily seeme to strangers to be better descended than in truth hee is For hee is exceeding bold of great vndertaking and can set out all he hath to the best shew Besides a kingdome is an object of that alluring qualitie as the very simple-wishing of a man thereto procureth liking and fauours much more the entiteling a prince thereto and deuising meanes to compasse the same Gent. It is so but Fa. Parsons is much esteemed of by most Catholickes in England yea and of many Protestants also by reason of his booke of Resolution and the Seminaries hee hath procured for our Nation Pr. As this booke of Resolution was a good work and woon him all the credit which was due to Granado that laid the platforme to Father Parsons hand and gaue him the principall grounds and matter thereof and which also was deserued by maister Brinckley for the penning as diuers report so no doubt the libell he writ against the Earle of Leicester and the other against the old L. Treasurer and this worke of Succession whereby he entitleth the Ladie Infanta to the crowne of England with disgracing all other Titles and Competitors hath got him much hatred and discredit in England and Scotland If the booke were his it was well done and he deserued commendation for it and surely if he had gone forward with the other two parts as he promised hee had spent these twentie yeares and moe both more to Gods honour and the good of his countrey and to his own greater merit than he hath done by all his other polliticke stickling in matters of State or by his cunning his violent his contentious and his vnconscionable proceedings otherwise But his head was too busie and ouermuch prophaned and greatly it is to be feared his dealing considered in Spaine and in Rome also against our students and the two good priests we sent thether about this authoritie again his deceiuing the Pope by false information both in procuring the authoritie by incensing him against the priests that when he finished that booke of Resolution he made an end also therewith of deuotion sinceritie and honest dealing It is no certaine nor probable argument to proue a man to be a Saint or a vertuous and a good man because in times past he hath written a vertuous booke yea or because hee writeth one in the present For this abilitie consisteth principally in the power of a mans vnderstanding whereas vertue and goodnesse as well supernaturall as naturall resteth in the will and affecteth the operations thereof Lucifer that damned fiend was a Cherubin of highest intelligence hee and his wicked angels exceed all men in wit and knowledge and want no skill to contriue and make spirituall bookes of absolute perfection yet this great knowledge of theirs neithet maketh them good nor can argue them to be vertuous spirits as long as their will is peruerted The like we may say of Adam that neither his great graces wherein he was created nor his supernaturall gifts which remain after his fall in both which states he had sufficient skill to deliuer to the world as good doctrine as Fa. Parson hath done could proue him to be a good man when he had cast himselfe out of the state of grace into sinne and the fame is true also in euery learned man beeing in mortall sinne and in Fa. Parson himselfe if at any time since he hath beene in that damnable state by their sinne they are depriued of justifying grace and other supernaturall vertues depending therupon but their faith their hope and knowledge gotten before their fall remaineth still by which they may teach and write as perfect doctrine as before they could Yea I haue heard Doctor Stapleton report of certaine bookes written vpon the holy Scripture by Iohn Caluin that they contained excellent good morall doctrine and if the heresies entermingled therewith were cancelled that they might be read with great profite and pleasure and yet no Catholicke will denie but that Caluine notwithstanding all this was a great enemie to the Romane religion Did not Salomon write many deuine volumnes and yet afterwards he became a bad man Now let Fa. Parsons booke goe with that deserued commendations what hee was good or bad whiles hee writ it for hee might bee either I cannot judge and I will suppose the best but what hee hath been since his owne bad actions yeeld presumptions ouer-pregnant and probable that sometimes he hath been no Saint nor sincere honest man Gent. In my conceit it is a manifest signe of a defect in wisedome judgement and discretion for any so worthely to valew a man for one or many his good actions past that when after the same he doeth euill he will not beleeue or see it or else in manifest faults stand to justifie and defend him by reason hee was once a good man or had done well before For mens judgements should be conformable to the object or otherwayes they cannot be true and in this though the precedēt good actions ought to stay a man from rash judgement and to make euery one suspend his censure vntill he be assured of the fact yet when his euill doing is once apparant a wise man should not let his affection cary him away to judge blacke to be white or a man fall'n to vice to remaine still a saint Priest VVell then you see that Fa. Parsons booke of Resolution made aboue twentie yeeres agoe cannot justifie nor ought not to patronize his naughtie actions committed since no nor in the judgement of any man to prejudice our cause and vs in these contentions we haue with him Gent. In reason it should be so but yet the Seminaries in Spaine saint Omers erected by his means haue gotten him much credit cause men to thinke him the bestfriend our Countrey hath Pr. If men would judicially consider what he hath done in this point perhaps they would thinke worse of him and his actions than they doe For albeit there be now by his meanes moe Semenaries for our yong studients than before yet doublesse our Countrey reapeth much lesse benefit now by all than it did of old by the two onely of Rome and