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A01041 A defence of the lavvful calling of the ministers of reformed churches, against the cavillations of Romanists Whereto is subioined, an epistle to a recusant, for clearing and maintaining some points of the former treatise of defence, challenged by a Roman Elymas Bar-Iesus-it. With a short discovery of the adversarie his dottage in his impertinent and rediculously deceitfull demands. By Patrik Forbes, of Coirse. Forbes, Patrick, 1564-1635. 1614 (1614) STC 11146; ESTC S114324 93,515 180

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inviolable truth of God be subiect vnto men or men vnto it And though all men were liars shall therefore the truth of God faile Shal tyme so strengthen errour as what from the beginning was invalid any length of dayes shall make it good The Lord himselfe being accused as we are now of transgressing the tradition of the Fathers answered that in vaine they worship God who teach for doctrines the traditions of men and against most inveterat strongly authorized and obtaining errours hee opposed this one reason that it was not so from the beginning The most approoved amongst the Fathers have taught vs that for warrant of faith we have neither to rely vpon what they themselves or what the Fathers who were before them have said but vpon that which Christ and his Apostles who were before all have delivered Antiquity I confesse were a great argument for truth if Sathan had not beene a lier from the beginning And yet the adversarie is so ridiculous as to demaund vs what men they are whose doctrine and writtings in all points of religion wee will advow and byde ate But miserable men is there an option left vs or any who will not perish in blindnes to make a choise to whose doctrine and writings in all points of religion wee will betake vs Hath the Lord left vs so incertain what to flee or follow We are not to advow or byde at any either doctrine or writings as vndoubted truth but what in the sacred scriptures is set downe All other whither doctrine or writings of whatsoever men and in whatsoever age wee advow and byde at but so far as they are consonant to that So as if an Angell from heaven preach any other Gospell let him be anathema Eis solis Scriptur arum libris qui iani Canonici appellantur sayeth Augustin didici hunc timorem honoremq̄ue deferre vt nullum serum authorem scribendo aliquid errasse firmiter credam And a little after Alias autem ita lego vt quanta libet sanctitata doctrinaque pr●p●lleant non ideo verum putem quia ipsi ita censerunt sed quia mihi vel per ill●s authores canonicos vel probabili rations quod à veró non abhorreat persuadere potuerant That is onely to these bookes of Scripture which are called Canonik have I learned to yeeld this feare and honour that I firmelie believe no Author of them to have erred ought in writings As for others I so read them as how excellently soever holy or learned they be yet I thinke not ought to bee therefore true because they have thought so but because either by these Canonicall authors or by probable reason they were able to perswade me that which doth not abhorre from truth And have we not more then a thousand times evinced evidētly that we professe maintaine no other doctrine then that which Christ his Apostles first taught by word therafter left vs in register for a stable and vndoudted rule to al succeeding ages which in despyt of Satan albeit busily advancing the mysterie of iniquitie yet was commonly holden in the Church more then three hundreth yeeres thereafter And which howsoever by prevayling darknes of the bottomles pitt it was so farre at length eclipsed as Sathan obtayned a throne even in the Temple of God yet was all the tyme of that prevayling errour the true both light and life of these who dwelling even where Sathan his throne was and albeit in weaknes tolerating spirituall fornication yet keeped the name of God lived reigned with him a 1000. yeres not receaving the beast his character albeit lurking vnder the shadow of his name or number which from vnder that overwhelming deluge of darknes hath brokē foorth again now three hundreth yeres agoe and that by degrees praysed bee God so clearly and powerfully to the convincing and dispelling therof as it maketh the recurelesse characterized followers of the beast to gnaw their toungs for sorow blaspheme bitterly Our adversaries in this their demaūd are no lesse ridiculous thē were either a senseles foole or a perverse iangler who the sunne arysing bright in the morning yet because soone after it is by degrees so lapped vp in clouddes and mist as it is not seene of men in the earth till that some houres before even breaking out again clearly dispelling all that overshadowing darknes it lighten of new the earth would therefore with pertinacie plead that the sunne thus wrestling out from vnder that overvailing cloud were not the true sunne which in the morning had shyned but some counterfait and never before seene Comet because foresooth their eies had not all the minuts of the day sensibly seene the shyning body and particular progres of it But poor Idiots the sunne hath such a soveraine and singular both light and heat as though all the dolts in the worlde would disclaime it yet wil evince it to be alwayes one and the same and albeit long covered and vnperceaved in common yet that all the while it still so shyned as howsoever in all Aegipt was palpable darknes yet in Gosben was cleare and confortable light In my treatise of defence and 19. section thereof answering this same obiection I alledged that as divers of our men had done so I might bring faire Catalogues of men who in former ages had holden the truth heavely lamented the prevayling corruptions of their tymes But I gave there divers and good reasons why neither ought that iustly bee required of vs neither we bee so foolish as to divert with our adversaries to so vnnecessary an altercation And long before in my commentarie vpon the 14. Chap. of the Revelation I shewed how to answer the adversarie ought hereto were but vainly to hale the coard of contention with men whose mouthes wee might stoppe by more sure and evident arguments And yet the adversarie in a good conscience I warrant you of a iust cause will admit now no rule whereby to examine vs but which hee knew verie well that before any demande from him I had for good reasons reiected and he is so extreemly impudent heerein as not onely without refelling any of my reasons he still vrgeth it but fearing also what herein I might verie well performe if I pleased to answer a foole to his follie and so proove a foole with him that wherto I refused to answere being proponed evē in a large case he reponeth to me now with such strict limitations as any sensible Reader may evidently perceave he hath fore-caston his evasions how to escape taking And for this it is that forsooth we must show who frō age to age not onley held but also professed the same Religion and that in all substantiall points And whose writinges in all points wee will advow and byde at Heere hee hath prepared to him selfe exceptions against any whom hee thinketh that in those most corrupted times wee can produce against him First if