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ancient_a and_o if_o they_o come_v from_o we_o know_v not_o who_o they_o be_v say_v to_o come_v from_o the_o apostle_n and_o if_o postnate_a they_o be_v call_v primitive_a and_o they_o be_v argue_v and_o laborious_o dispute_v into_o the_o title_n of_o apostolical_a tradition_n by_o not_o only_o fallible_a but_o fallacious_a argument_n as_o will_v appear_v in_o the_o follow_a number_n this_o be_v the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n and_o therefore_o 1._o it_o prove_v itself_o because_o there_o can_v be_v no_o proof_n to_o the_o contrary_a since_o the_o elder_n the_o tradition_n be_v the_o more_o likely_a it_o can_v be_v prove_v as_o be_v near_o the_o fountain_n and_o not_o have_v have_v a_o long_a current_n which_o as_o a_o long_a line_n be_v always_o the_o weak_a so_o in_o long_a descent_n be_v most_o likely_a to_o be_v corrupt_v and_o therefore_o a_o late_a tradition_n be_v one_o of_o the_o worst_a argument_n in_o the_o world_n it_o follow_v that_o nothing_o can_v now_o because_o 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the_o present_a controversy_n and_o if_o you_o will_v not_o allow_v scripture_n to_o give_v testimony_n to_o itself_o who_o shall_v give_v testimony_n to_o it_o shall_v the_o church_n or_o the_o pope_n suppose_v which_o we_o will_v but_o who_o shall_v give_v testimony_n to_o they_o shall_v they_o give_v credit_n to_o scripture_n before_o it_o be_v know_v how_o they_o come_v themselves_o to_o be_v credible_a if_o they_o be_v not_o credible_a of_o themselves_o we_o be_v not_o the_o near_a for_o their_o give_v their_o testimony_n to_o the_o scripture_n but_o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o church_n be_v of_o itself_o credible_a upon_o its_o own_o authority_n this_o must_v be_v prove_v before_o it_o can_v be_v admit_v and_o then_o how_o shall_v this_o be_v prove_v and_o at_o least_o the_o scripture_n will_v be_v pretend_v to_o be_v of_o itself_o credible_a as_o the_o church_n and_o since_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o all_o the_o dignity_n power_n authority_n office_n and_o sanctity_n it_o have_v or_o pretend_v to_o have_v can_v no_o other_o way_n be_v prove_v but_o by_o the_o scripture_n a_o conformity_n to_o they_o in_o all_o doctrine_n law_n and_o manner_n be_v the_o only_a charter_n by_o which_o she_o claim_v it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o scripture_n have_v the_o prior_n right_a and_o can_v better_o be_v primely_a credible_a than_o the_o church_n or_o any_o thing_n else_o that_o claim_v from_o scripture_n nay_o therefore_o quoad_fw-la nos_fw-la it_o be_v to_o be_v allow_v to_o be_v primely_a credible_a because_o there_o be_v no_o creature_n beside_o it_o that_o be_v so_o indeed_o god_n be_v please_v to_o find_v out_o way_n to_o prove_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v his_o word_n his_o immediate_a word_n by_o miraculous_a consignation_n and_o
when_o it_o be_v the_o method_n that_o all_o man_n use_v they_o that_o can_v satisfy_v the_o understanding_n and_o they_o that_o can_v and_o be_v there_o any_o thing_n more_o ignorant_a than_o to_o think_v a_o method_n or_o way_n of_o proof_n be_v nought_o because_o some_o man_n use_v it_o to_o good_a purpose_n and_o some_o to_o bad_a and_o be_v not_o light_v a_o glorious_a cover_n because_o the_o evil_a spirit_n sometime_o put_v it_o on_o be_v not_o our_o saviour_n way_n of_o confute_v the_o devil_n by_o scripture_n very_o good_a because_o the_o devil_n use_v the_o same_o way_n and_o so_o it_o be_v a_o way_n common_a to_o discourse_n that_o have_v in_o they_o the_o power_n to_o satisfy_v the_o understanding_n and_o those_o which_o have_v no_o such_o power_n titius_n be_v sue_v by_o sempronius_n for_o a_o farm_n which_o he_o have_v long_o possess_v and_o to_o which_o titius_n prove_v his_o title_n by_o indubitable_a record_n and_o law_n and_o patent_n sempronius_n pretend_v to_o do_v so_o too_o and_o tell_v the_o judge_n that_o he_o ought_v not_o to_o regard_v any_o proof_n of_o titius_n offering_n because_o he_o go_v upon_o ground_n which_o himself_o also_o go_v upon_o and_o so_o they_o be_v not_o apt_a to_o be_v a_o ground_n of_o determine_v any_o thing_n because_o they_o be_v common_a to_o both_o side_n the_o judge_n smile_v and_o inquire_v who_o have_v most_o right_a to_o the_o pretend_a ground_n but_o approve_v the_o method_n of_o proceed_v because_o it_o be_v common_a to_o the_o contrary_a pretender_n and_o this_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o argument_n against_o my_o method_n that_o in_o the_o world_n nothing_o can_v be_v say_v great_a in_o allowance_n of_o it_o even_o because_o i_o prove_v upon_o principle_n allow_v by_o both_o side_n that_o be_v i_o dispute_v upon_o principle_n upon_o which_o we_o be_v agree_v to_o put_v the_o cause_n to_o trial_n do_v the_o primitive_a father_n refuse_v to_o be_v judge_v by_o or_o to_o argue_v from_o scripture_n because_o the_o heretic_n do_v argue_v from_o thence_o too_o do_v not_o the_o father_n take_v from_o they_o their_o armour_n in_o which_o they_o trust_v and_o do_v not_o david_n strike_v with_o the_o sword_n of_o goliath_n because_o that_o be_v the_o sword_n which_o his_o enemy_n have_v use_v david_n prove_v that_o way_n apt_a to_o prevail_v by_o cut_v off_o the_o giant_n head_n but_o what_o particularity_n of_o method_n will_v i._o s._n have_v i_o to_o use_v shall_v i_o use_v reason_n to_o that_o all_o the_o world_n pretend_v and_o it_o be_v the_o sword_n that_o cut_v on_o both_o side_n and_o it_o be_v use_v in_o discourse_n that_o can_v and_o that_o can_v satisfy_v shall_v i_o use_v the_o scripture_n in_o that_o i._o s._n be_v please_v to_o say_v the_o quaker_n outdo_v i_o shall_v i_o use_v the_o father_n the_o smectymnuan_o bring_v father_n against_o episcopacy_n what_o shall_v i_o bring_v i_o know_v not_o what_o yet_o but_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v something_o very_o particular_a that_o be_v certain_a shall_v i_o then_o bring_v tradition_n will_v oral_a tradition_n do_v it_o i_o hope_v i._n s._n will_v for_o his_o own_o and_o his_o three_o or_o four_o friend_n sake_n like_o that_o way_n but_o if_o i_o shall_v take_v it_o i._n s_o may_v very_o just_o say_v that_o i_o take_v a_o method_n that_o be_v common_a to_o those_o discourse_n which_o have_v in_o they_o power_n to_o satisfy_v the_o understanding_n and_o those_o which_o have_v no_o such_o power_n whether_o this_o method_n be_v use_v or_o no_o in_o discourse_n satisfactory_a let_v i._n s._n speak_v but_o i_o be_o sure_a it_o be_v use_v of_o late_a in_o some_o discourse_n which_o be_v not_o satisfactory_a and_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o they_o be_v sure_a foot_n and_o do_v not_o the_o greek_n pretend_v tradition_n against_o the_o roman_a doctrine_n of_o purgatory_n the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o supremacy_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n whether_o right_n or_o wrong_n i_o inquire_v not_o here_o but_o that_o they_o do_v so_o be_v evident_a and_o therefore_o neither_o be_v it_o lawful_a for_o i_o to_o proceed_v this_o way_n or_o even_o then_o to_o call_v my_o book_n a_o dissuasive_a for_o it_o be_v plain_a to_o common_a sense_n that_o it_o can_v have_v in_o it_o no_o power_n of_o move_v the_o understanding_n one_o way_n or_o other_o unless_o there_o be_v some_o particularity_n in_o the_o method_n above_o what_o be_v in_o other_o which_o it_o be_v certain_a can_v never_o be_v because_o there_o be_v no_o method_n but_o some_o or_o other_o have_v already_o take_v it_o and_o therefore_o i_o perceive_v plain_o my_o book_n be_v not_o any_o more_o to_o be_v call_v a_o dissuasive_a till_o i_o can_v find_v out_o some_o new_a way_n and_o method_n which_o as_o yet_o be_v never_o use_v in_o christendom_n and_o indeed_o i_o be_o to_o account_v myself_o the_o more_o unsuccessful_a in_o my_o well_o mean_v endeavour_n because_o i._o s._n tell_v we_o that_o he_o see_v plain_o that_o in_o the_o pursuit_n of_o truth_n method_n be_v in_o a_o manner_n all_o i._o s._n have_v a_o method_n new_a enough_o not_o so_o old_a as_o mr._n white_a and_o he_o desire_v i_o to_o get_v such_o another_o but_o nobis_fw-la non_fw-la licet_fw-la esse_fw-la tam_fw-la beatis_fw-la and_o i_o be_o the_o less_o trouble_v for_o it_o because_o i._o s._n his_o method_n be_v new_a but_o not_o right_o and_o i_o prove_v it_o from_o a_o argument_n of_o his_o own_o for_o say_v he_o it_o be_v impossible_a any_o controversy_n shall_v hover_v long_o in_o debate_n if_o a_o right_a method_n of_o conclude_v evident_o be_v careful_o take_v and_o faithful_o hold_v to_o now_o because_o i_o see_v that_o i._o s._n his_o method_n or_o new_a way_n have_v make_v a_o new_a controversy_n but_o have_v end_v none_o but_o what_o be_v before_o and_o what_o be_v now_o be_v as_o likely_a as_o ever_o still_o to_o hover_v in_o debate_n i._o s._n must_v needs_o conclude_v that_o either_o he_o have_v not_o faithful_o hold_v to_o it_o or_o his_o way_n be_v good_a for_o nothing_o other_o thing_n he_o say_v here_o which_o though_o they_o be_v rude_a and_o uncivil_a yet_o because_o he_o repeat_v they_o in_o his_o six_o way_n i_o shall_v there_o consider_v they_o altogether_o if_o i_o find_v cause_n the_o four_o way_n this_o four_o mine_n have_v as_o good_a luck_n will_v have_v it_o nothing_o of_o demonstration_n nor_o be_v his_o reason_n found_v upon_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n as_o before_o he_o boast_v but_o only_a ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la but_o such_o as_o it_o be_v it_o must_v be_v consider_v the_o argument_n be_v this_o that_o though_o i_o produce_v testimony_n from_o father_n yet_o i_o do_v not_o allow_v they_o to_o be_v infallible_a nor_o yet_o myself_o in_o interpret_n scripture_n nor_o yet_o do_v i_o with_o any_o infalliable_a certainty_n see_v any_o proposition_n i_o go_v about_o to_o deduce_v by_o reason_n to_o be_v necessary_o consequent_a to_o any_o first_o or_o self_n evident_a principle_n and_o therefore_o i_o be_o certain_a of_o nothing_o i_o allege_v in_o my_o whole_a book_n the_o sum_n be_v this_o no_o man_n be_v certain_a of_o any_o thing_n unless_o he_o be_v infallible_a i_o confess_v i_o be_o not_o infallible_a and_o yet_o i_o be_o certain_a this_o must_v be_v his_o meaning_n or_o else_o his_o word_n have_v no_o sense_n and_o if_o i_o say_v true_a in_o this_o than_o fallibility_n and_o certainty_n be_v not_o such_o incompossible_a and_o inconsistent_a thing_n but_o what_o do_v i._n s._n think_v of_o himself_o be_v he_o infallible_a i_o do_v not_o well_o know_v what_o he_o will_v answer_v for_o he_o seem_v to_o be_v very_o near_o it_o if_o we_o may_v guess_v by_o the_o glorious_a opinion_n he_o have_v of_o himself_o but_o i_o will_v suppose_v he_o more_o modest_a than_o to_o think_v he_o be_v and_o yet_o he_o talk_v at_o that_o rate_n as_o if_o his_o argument_n be_v demonstration_n and_o his_o opinion_n certainty_n suppose_v his_o ground_n he_o go_v upon_o be_v as_o true_a as_o i_o know_v they_o be_v false_a yet_o be_v he_o infallible_a in_o his_o reason_n and_o deduce_v from_o those_o principle_n such_o feat_n conclusion_n as_o he_o offer_v to_o obtrude_v upon_o the_o world_n if_o his_o reason_n be_v infallible_a so_o it_o may_v be_v i_o be_v for_o aught_o i_o know_v but_o i_o never_o think_v it_o so_o yet_o and_o yet_o i_o know_v no_o reason_n to_o the_o contrary_a but_o it_o be_v as_o infallible_a as_o he_o but_o if_o his_o be_v not_o it_o may_v be_v all_o that_o he_o say_v be_v false_a at_o least_o he_o be_v not_o sure_a any_o thing_n of_o it_o be_v true_a and_o then_o he_o may_v make_v use_n of_o his_o own_o ridiculous_a speech_n he_o
church_n 1_o vide_fw-la quae_fw-la supra_fw-la annotavi_fw-la eâ—_n decreto_fw-la gratiani_n sect._n 1_o which_o be_v discordant_a enough_o and_o many_o time_n of_o themselves_o too_o unblamable_a be_v yet_o by_o they_o account_v so_o sacred_a that_o it_o be_v teach_v to_o be_v a_o sin_n against_o the_o holy_a ghost_n willing_o to_o break_v they_o in_o the_o world_n there_o can_v be_v a_o great_a verification_n of_o this_o charge_n upon_o they_o it_o be_v confess_v on_o all_o hand_n that_o not_o every_o man_n who_o voluntary_o violate_v a_o divine_a commandment_n do_v blaspheme_v the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o end_n of_o the_o first_o book_n the_o second_o book_n section_n i._n of_o indulgence_n one_o of_o the_o great_a instance_n to_o prove_v the_o roman_a religion_n to_o be_v new_a not_o primitive_a not_o apostolic_a be_v the_o foolish_a and_o unjustifiable_a doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n this_o point_n i_o have_v already_o handle_v so_o full_o and_o so_o without_o contradiction_n from_o the_o roman_a doctor_n except_o that_o they_o have_v causeless_o snarl_v at_o some_o of_o the_o testimony_n that_o for_o aught_o yet_o appear_v that_o discourse_n may_v remain_v a_o sufficient_a reproof_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n until_o the_o day_n of_o their_o reformation_n the_o first_o testimony_n i_o bring_v be_v the_o confession_n of_o a_o party_n for_o i_o affirm_v that_o bishop_n fisher_n of_o rochester_n do_v confess_v that_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v no_o use_n of_o indulgence_n and_o that_o they_o begin_v after_o the_o people_n be_v a_o while_n affright_v with_o the_o torment_n of_o purgatory_n to_o this_o there_o be_v two_o answer_n the_o first_o be_v that_o bishop_n fisher_n say_v no_o such_o word_n no_o proferte_fw-la tabulas_fw-la his_o word_n be_v these_o luther_n in_o art_n 18._o contr_n luther_n who_o can_v now_o wonder_v that_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v no_o use_n of_o indulgence_n and_o again_o indulgence_n begin_v a_o while_n after_o man_n tremble_v at_o the_o torment_n of_o purgatory_n these_o be_v the_o word_n of_o roffensis_n what_o in_o the_o world_n can_v be_v plain_o and_o this_o be_v so_o evident_a that_o alphonsus_n a_o castro_n think_v himself_o concern_v to_o answer_v the_o objection_n indulgenâ—iae_fw-la lib._n 8._o adv_n haeres_fw-la tâ—t_fw-la indulgenâ—iae_fw-la and_o the_o danger_n of_o such_o concession_n neither_o upon_o this_o occasion_n be_v indulgence_n to_o be_v despise_v because_o their_o use_n may_v seem_v to_o be_v receive_v late_o in_o the_o church_n because_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n know_v to_o posterity_n which_o those_o ancient_a writer_n be_v whole_o ignorant_a of_o quid_fw-la ergo_fw-la mirum_fw-la si_fw-la ad_fw-la hunc_fw-la modum_fw-la contigerit_fw-la de_fw-la indulgentiis_fw-la ut_fw-la apud_fw-la priscos_fw-la nulla_fw-la sit_fw-la de_fw-la iis_fw-la mentio_fw-la indeed_o antiquity_n be_v whole_o ignorant_a of_o these_o thing_n primam_fw-la hâ—stiensis_n in_o summâ_fw-la l._n 5._o tit_n de_fw-fr remiss_a biel_n in_o canon_n missae_fw-la lect_v 57_o vide_fw-la bellarm._n l._n 1._o c._n 14._o de_fw-fr indul._n sect._n quod_fw-la ad_fw-la primam_fw-la and_o as_o for_o their_o catholic_a posterity_n some_o of_o they_o also_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o indulgence_n do_v profit_v any_o that_o be_v dead_a among_o these_o hostiensis_n and_o biel_n be_v the_o most_o note_a but_o biel_n be_v soon_o make_v to_o alter_v his_o opinion_n hostiensis_n do_v not_o that_o i_o find_v the_o other_o answer_n be_v by_o e._n w._n that_o roffensis_n say_v it_o not_o so_o absolute_o but_o with_o this_o interrogation_n quis_fw-la jam_fw-la de_fw-la indulgentiis_fw-la mirari_fw-la potest_fw-la who_o now_o can_v wonder_v concern_v indulgence_n wonder_n at_o what_o for_o e._n w._n be_v loath_a to_o tell_v it_o but_o truth_n must_v out_o who_o now_o can_v wonder_v that_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v no_o use_n of_o indulgence_n so_o roffensis_n which_o first_o suppose_v this_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v no_o use_n of_o indulgence_n none_o at_o all_o and_o this_o which_o be_v the_o main_a question_n here_o be_v as_o absolute_o affirm_v as_o any_o thing_n it_o be_v like_o a_o praecognition_n to_o a_o scientifical_a discourse_n and_o then_o the_o question_n have_v presuppose_v this_o do_v by_o direct_a implication_n say_v it_o be_v no_o wonder_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v then_o no_o use_n of_o indulgence_n that_o be_v it_o not_o only_o absolute_o affirm_v the_o thing_n but_o by_o consequence_n the_o notoreity_n of_o it_o and_o the_o reasonableness_n nothing_o affirm_v or_o deny_v more_o strong_o than_o a_o question_n be_v not_o my_o way_n equal_a say_v god_n and_o be_v not_o your_o way_n unequal_a that_o be_v it_o be_v evident_a and_o notorious_a that_o it_o be_v so_o and_o by_o this_o we_o understand_v the_o meaning_n of_o roffensis_n in_o the_o follow_a word_n yet_o as_o they_o say_v there_o be_v some_o very_a ancient_a use_n of_o they_o among_o the_o roman_n they_o say_v that_o be_v there_o be_v a_o talk_n of_o it_o among_o some_o or_o other_o but_o such_o they_o be_v who_o roffensis_n believe_v not_o and_o that_o upon_o which_o they_o do_v grind_v their_o fabulous_a report_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o ridiculous_a legend_n 3_o dissuasive_a 1._o part_n sect._n 3_o which_o i_o have_v already_o confute_v the_o same_o doctrine_n be_v teach_v by_o antoninus_n who_o confess_v that_o concern_v they_o we_o have_v nothing_o express_o either_o in_o the_o scripture_n or_o in_o the_o say_n of_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n and_o that_o he_o say_v so_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o e._n w._n say_v that_o i_o omit_v what_o antoninus_n add_v that_o be_v i_o do_v not_o transcribe_v his_o whole_a book_n but_o what_o be_v it_o that_o i_o shall_v have_v add_v this._n quamvis_fw-la ad_fw-la hoc_fw-la inducatur_fw-la illud_fw-la apostoli_fw-la 2_o cor._n 2._o si_fw-mi quid_fw-la donavi_fw-la vobis_fw-la propter_fw-la vos_fw-la in_o persona_fw-la christi_fw-la now_o to_o this_o there_o need_v no_o answer_n but_o this_o that_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n to_o who_o the_o corinthian_n forgive_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o same_o person_n s._n paul_n for_o their_o sake_n do_v forgive_v also_o but_o what_o then_o therefore_o the_o pope_n and_o his_o clergy_n have_v power_n to_o take_v off_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n which_o god_n reserve_v upon_o sinner_n after_o he_o have_v forgive_v they_o the_o temporal_a and_o that_o the_o church_n have_v power_n to_o forgive_v sin_n before_o hand_n and_o to_o set_v a_o price_n upon_o the_o base_a crime_n and_o not_o to_o forgive_v but_o to_o sell_v indulgence_n and_o lie_v up_o the_o supernumerary_a treasure_n of_o the_o saint_n good_a work_n and_o issue_v they_o out_o by_o retail_n in_o the_o market_n of_o purgatory_n because_o s._n paul_n cause_v the_o corinthian_n to_o be_v absolve_v and_o restore_v to_o the_o church_n peace_n after_o a_o severe_a penance_n so_o great_a that_o the_o poor_a man_n be_v in_o danger_n of_o be_v swallow_v up_o with_o despair_n and_o the_o subtlety_n of_o satan_n do_v this_o prove_v that_o therefore_o all_o penance_n may_v be_v take_v off_o when_o there_o be_v no_o such_o danger_n no_o such_o pious_a and_o charitable_a consideration_n and_o yet_o beside_o the_o inconsequence_n of_o all_o this_o s._n paul_n give_v no_o indulgence_n but_o what_o the_o christian_a church_n of_o corinth_n in_o which_o at_o that_o time_n there_o be_v no_o bishop_n do_v first_o give_v themselves_o now_o the_o indulgence_n which_o the_o people_n give_v will_v prove_v but_o little_a warrant_n to_o what_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n pretend_v not_o only_o for_o the_o former_a reason_n but_o also_o because_o the_o primitive_a church_n have_v say_v nothing_o express_o concern_v indulgence_n and_o therefore_o do_v not_o to_o any_o such_o purpose_n expound_v the_o word_n of_o s._n paul_n but_o also_o because_o antoninus_n himself_o be_v not_o move_v by_o those_o word_n to_o think_v they_o mean_v any_o thing_n of_o the_o roman_a indulgence_n but_o mention_n it_o as_o the_o argument_n of_o other_o person_n just_o as_o if_o i_o shall_v write_v that_o there_o be_v concern_v transubstantiation_n nothing_o express_o say_v in_o the_o scripture_n or_o in_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n although_o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la be_v bring_v in_o for_o it_o will_v any_o man_n in_o his_o wit_n say_v that_o i_o be_o of_o the_o opinion_n that_o in_o scripture_n there_o be_v something_o express_v for_o it_o though_o i_o express_o deny_v it_o i_o suppose_v not_o it_o appear_v now_o that_o roffensis_n and_o a_o castro_n declare_v against_o the_o antiquity_n of_o indulgence_n their_o own_o word_n be_v the_o witness_n and_o the_o same_o be_v also_o true_a of_o antoninus_n and_o therefore_o the_o first_o discourse_n of_o indulgence_n in_o the_o dissuasive_a might_n have_v go_v on_o