Shew you in what part of any saying almost the errour doth not lie commonly the disease is epidemicall over the whole passage The night is too far spent for them to think that men will judge errour or truth by their magisterial votes Why make you not a right use of this departure of the night Is it not a shame to hold such ungodly opinions in the day of the Gospel-light They that are drunk with heresie are drunk even in the day T' was bad to be so in the night of Popery 't is abominable in the day of Reformation what a brazen brow hath heresie to out-look the light of the Scripture nay to put it out Oh that I could hear more of you say to your errours as the angel to Jacob let me goe from you for the day appeareth Well take heed if you still goe on to commit night sins in the day time lest you shorten Englands day of grace and hasten her night of Woe If ever a generation threatned such a night heretiques do I assure you Sir Your new light hath in a manner put out your old heat For your saying That the night is too far spent to judge errours by the votes of Ministers We blesse God that the night is so far spent as that we see how to judge your errours by the light of the Scriptures a light that you would fain eclipse for fear of discovery a light which if you loved you would abominate these errours of darknesse love the Scriptures and hate the ministers if you dare if you can Men have put away those childish things Sion Coll. visit pag â— Answ to beleeve as the Church beleeves And in stead thereof Sectaries put it away as a childish thing to beleeve as the word beleeves you have made a fair change There is not so much as any one syllable in the Covenant that engageth any man to the Presbyteriall Government Sion Col. visit p. 10. Answ But are there not many syllables in the Covenant that engage 1. To a Government 2. To a Government according to the word of God If to a Government What will then become of Independency which any further then it shapes it self to Presbytery is the very negation of Government and as used by you stands upon no other leg then a necessary violation of the Covenant by a Toleration of all errours heresies and ungodly opinions in the world 2. If the Covenant engageth to a Government according to the word of God and the example c. tremble to quetch against Presbytery the most agreeable Government to the Word and if it be not so Answer the many learned and pious Tractates that have been put out for it both by Scots and English Answer the learned labour of the Assembly Mr Ruther surds Mr Gillespies books and the book entituled Jus divinum Regiminis Ecclesiasticâ— but you have a compendious way of Confutation you blow away whole books with the dictates of three or four lines Was it in the integrity of your hearts Sion Col. visit p. 11. to discharge your duty conscientiously that you charge him with errours against the Divine Authority of the Scripture who hath bent himself with the uâ—termost of his endâ—avours for the vindication of their Divine Authority and â—ho hath laboured in this argument as much and with as much faithfulnes as any of you all Was it from the lowlinesse of your heart Answ that you prefer your self before the moâ—â— learned and pious of the Subscribers Or was it from the logick of your head that you form such a childish argument viz. You may not be taxed with errours about the Authority of the Scriptures because you have written in vindication of them Did not Faustus Rhegiensis write a Treatise Baron Annal. Ton. 6 an 490. Sect. 31. Vid. â—â—id Hispal de Script eccl cap. 14. Sune Scriptura Prophetica Apostolica â—t verbum Deâ—recipienda â—â—quaÌ„ quaestionem indignam alioqui quâ— tractetur apud theoloâ—os Christâ—anos peperit nobis hoc tempore Swenkfeldij deliratie c De verbe Dei l. 1 c 1. De gratiâ libero arbitrio against the Pelagians and yet Dum captiosè videri vellet pugnare contra Pelagianos compertus suit ' Pelagio favens novus dogmatista It matters not what men say that themselves doe but what others that are wise and holy men see that they doe May not Bellarmine be charged with errours about the Authority of the Scriptures that hath labeured in the justifying of their Divine Authority against the Schwenckfeldians with incomparable more sinews and strength than you have ever done in your way When did your pen ever as his did drop such a passage as this that the very question Whether the Propheticall and Apostolicall writing is to be received as the Word of God is unworthy to be handled by any Christian divine had it not been made necessary by the deliration of Swenckfeldius and the Anabaptists denying it Whereas your work is to preach and write against all Propheticall and Apostolicall writings whether Originals or Translations Remember with what consident heat you rose up for the most horrid heretikes Antiseripturists and Antitrinitarians c. In your Hagiomastix and then consider whether your saying that you bear the errours of the times as a burden upon your soul is to be beleeved must this your saying that errours are your burden excuse you from erroneousnes when you say that this opinion that God is not one in three persons is not contrary to any manifest word of God and this you say in that place that your opponents neither have proved Hag. p. 35. nor can prove Though you say that errours are your burden must you not be blamed for saying That you know holy and heavenly Christians Hag. p. 36. who deny that God is one in three persons Must your own titles and pretences upon or in any book exempt you from a Charge when as the matter couched under them condemns you Nay ought you not to be the more blamed for your cloaked impiety and for your reall enmity to the Scriptures under appearances and seeming friendship Tuta frequensque via Doe I not plainly Sion Col visited p. 11. clearly and distinctly enough declare unto the world in my Treatise concerning the Divine Authority of the Scripture In what sense I hold the Scriptures whether Translations or Originals to be the word of God and consequently the foundation of Christian Religion and in what not Let the 13 and 15. pages of my said book be lookt upon Therefore you complain that the Subscribers barely cite these words from your pen Questionlesse no writing whatsoever whether Translations or Originals are the foundation of Christian Religion without citing those other words of yours pag. 13. wherein in a true sense you assert them to be the Word of God Your self is the first man that ever I heard to commend you for clearnesse Answ plainnesse and
was to answer hâ—s accusations against the Ministers for their transcribing his Errours in their Testimony My book would have swolne into a large volume had I handled the Points according to their own extent and according to the helps afforded by our Divines But I hope I have done enough to shew that he had no cause to complain of the Ministers transcriptions and that all his pretended allegations out of the Fathers Bucer and Mâ— Ball help him not at all but rather speak against him My multiplied occasions have hindered me from so speedy and large an Answer as may be expected but as it is Reverend and beloved friends you have it and my self to serve you in the things of Christ WILLIAM JENKYN From my Study at Christ Church Load Errata Page 4. marg read Paulâ—s voluit p 8. marg l 30. read de Christo l. 35. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 8. l 23. r upheld p. 20. l 23. r. wherein you say c. p â—â— l ult r. tells mâ— it is to c p 23. l. 34. r. it is from God written p. 31. marg r abijcere possit p. 41. l. 24 r. and that truly l. 11. r. you did speak to c. p. 45. l. 33. â—â—jutorium p. 48 marg r. contendunt p 52. marg r Bacer in Iob 6.44 p. 5â— l 32. r with the fathers p. 52 marg r. etesiph ΑΛΛΟΤΡΙΟΕΠῚΣΚΟΠΟΣ OR The Busie Bishop RELIGION never had greater enemies then those of her own house Sion Coll. visited p. 1. And a little after It was never well with RELIGION since the Ministers c. Answ Your work is to kill Religion but your way to do so Ans I perceive is to kisse it You seem to make towards the lips of Religion but your aim is at her fifth rib You advance her head in your Preface but 't is to break her neck in your book In the pretence of your Preface you raise up Religion to the clouds In the performance of your book you lay it among the clods for must not Religion needs fall to the ground when her foundation upon which she stands is pluckt away And takes not â—e away the foundation of religion who denies the Scripture to be that foundation Div. Authority of the Scripturâ—â— p. 18. And doth not John Goodwin deny the Scripture to be that foundation of Religion What else is the English of these words in terminis his own viz. Questionlesse no writing whatsoever whether translations or originals are the foundation of Christian Religion Away with your hypocriticall exclamations against the enemies of Religion and your Crocodiles tears in that Religion cannot be well for the Ministers were your wit but hair to keen as your will we should in a short time neither have Religion nor Minister left among us But to your stuff The greatest enemies to Religion are in her own house Sion Col. visit p. 1. Answ True For of your own selves saith Paul shall men arise speaking penverse things to draw away Disciples after them Act 20.30 And if of all that are in Religions own house heretikes be her greatest enemies What will become of John Goodwin It was never well with Christian Religion since the Ministers of the Gospel so called by themselves Sion Col. visit p 1. and so reputed by others for want of knowing better cunningly vested that priviledge of the Church of being the pillar and ground of truth in themselves First Answ For the Lectio Your meaning I suppose was and had not rage against the Ministers made you write non-sense you would have said thus The Ministers cunningly vested themselves in or with the priviledge of the Church and not as you doe The Ministers vested the priviledge of the Church in themselves A man may be vested in or with a priviledge but it 's very improper to say a priviledge is vested in or with a man as improper as to say a garment is vested in the man that wears it t were better to say the man is vested in the garment It s a sign your pen is drunk with madnes it doth so stagger and stammer These faults of pure weaknesse I should not regard did I observe either humility in you under the sense of greater in yourself or ingenuity in you in passing by smaller in others But why finde I fault with the vest the phrase of your book The dusty cloaths of your words are good enough for the crooked carcasse of your matter This is Titubare in limite for I may well call the matter crooked if to be true be to be straight for I finde two abominable falsities within the space of two lines 1. That the Ministers of the Gospel are only so reputed by men for want of knowing and considering better 2. That they have vested themselves with the priviledge of being the ground and pillar of truth 1. You say these Ministers of the Gospel are only so reputed for want of considering better Answ 1. 'T is your sorrow to see that they are so much as reputed Ministers But Sir 't is your sin to say they are no more then Ministers reputed If they be no Ministers why disprove you not their calling Why bring you not an argument in stead of a scoff against them But you may write thus with much praise from your deluded followers and little pains to your feeble self 2. Tell me of one man either Minister or private Christian differing from the subscribers only in the point of Independency who dares say thus with you I have heard sundry of the Synodicall dissenters preach and professe the contrary 3. Or are you now got a step or two above Independency acknowledge you any Ministers of the Gospel at all whether your self or any other I observe that you who were wont to stile your self The Minister of a Church such an one as 't is in Colemanstreet now in this last Pamphlet as if you had a minde to be lookt upon under another consideration word your self only Iohn Goodwin a servant of God and men I am sure of men I doubt whether of God haply the Delilah of a Congregation hath entised you to be tampering with the lock of our Ministery you have yeelded already to cast off the word Minister by the next you may have cast off the thing too 4. If you do account your self a Minister I pray tell me in your next which way you had your Ordination whether by that way which the Ministers of London had theirs who you say are no Ministers at all or whether you had it by a Culinary 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in one of your allies You tell the subscribers afterward of sacred unction in a jeer but know that no unction is the lesse sacred for not coming out of the kitchin Secondly You say The Ministers have vested themselves with the priviledge of the Church of being the ground and pillar of truth and it was â—â—ver happy since Answ I
but it bears the Image of weak and unworthy ones If the subscribers be learned and pious I fear they are as unlike you Answ as you say they are unlike their own Testimony But if their Testimony be not for piety and learning like themselves truly friend this your work is for impiety and ignorance just like you a thing upon which John Goodwin fecit need never be written And yet the first side in your late book against the Authority of the Scriptures in my apprehension was very unlike you I mean the verses under your picture which are a very jeer to you The verses say that in you are gathered the perfections of ten thousand men with their gifts and graces c. when as many know that you have more heresies and errours met in you then are dispersed among some thousands in the world and if your heresies unles you are lately impoverished could be bequeathed to ten thousand sectaries they might every one have a childes portion and have sufficient to live like such men when you are dead and gone It was therefore a passage as pernicious as proud which dropt from your pen in your Epistle to your book called The divine Authority of Scriptures where you say that you will endeavour when you are gone that your followers may have your spirit among them A single portion of it would be far too much Rom 12.2 'T were better it might be transformed while you live then be transmigrated when you die The Ministens book is a Testimony against the truths of Josus Christ It testisieth against this pretious truth of Jesus viz. Sion Col visi p. 2. No writing whatsoever whether originals or translations are the foundation of Christian religion wheneas this is asserted for a truth by the great Apostle 1 Cor. 3.11 Other foundation can no man lay but Jesus Christ T is a mercy that since you have so little of integrity Ans you have no more of intellect Think you your self able to woo thâ— Scripâ—res to afford you weapons against themselves Can you prove out of the Scripture that there is no Scripture You say Christ is the only foundation therefore not the Scripture But doth the one hinder the other May not Christ be the only foundation in point of mediation and the Scripture in point of manifestation and discovery May not Christ be the foundation upon which I build for salvation and the Scripture the foundation upon which I ground the knowledge of this Saviour I pray answer Whether do you ground your knowledge and belief that Christ is the only foundation of salvation upon this your cited place 1 Cor. 3.11 Other foundation c If you do not why do you alledge it to prove that Christ is the only foundation If you do ground your belief of Christ his being the only foundation upon this place why do you bring this Scripture to prove that Christ his being the foundation hinders the Scripture from being so Is it possible that the known distinction of â—ssendi and engâ—oscendi principium quod quo or a foundation personall and scripturall should be bid from the eyes of this seducer in chief Therefore do I acknowledge the Scriptures to be the foundation of religion because they are appointed by God for the sole manifestation of his will concerning our salvation by Christ we building our confidence that Christ is the only Saviour upon the Scripture which saith so Is my dependence upon a friend for a favour any hinderance to me from building my confidence upon his word also nay do I not therefore build any hopes upon him because upon his word his word revealing his will you do wickedly therefore and weakly to oppose Christ and his word Give me one protestant writer that ever argued thus with you The word is not our foundation because Christ is so I am sure the Apostle saith Eph. 2.20 that we are built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles that is their doctrine and yet Christ was the corner stone for all that If you doubt whether by the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles be meant their doctrine concerning Christ Consult our learned and judicious expositours of that place * Quin fundamentum bâ—â— pro doctrina sunatur minâ—è dubâ—um est neque euim patriarch as nomin at aut pâ—oâ— reges sed â—oâ— solos qui offiâ—â—uÌ„ habehant docendiâ—â—aque locet Poulue fidem Ecclesie in â—ac doctrinâ— debere esse fundatam Calv. in loc Doctrinam Apostolorum prophetarum fundamento aedificij comparaâ— Pâ—sc inâ—oc Nos affirmamâ—â— sundamentuâ— illud quo nitititur ecclesiae fides esse doctrinam propheticaÌ„ ApostolicaÌ„ de Ceristo Rolloc in loc 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chryl â—n loe Paulus per Apostolorum fundamentum doctrinaâ— Aposto lorum intelligit Whâ—t Q 2. con 4 de Monarch Pet. p 55â— Vid Chamier de Canone lib. 6. cap. 8. Calvins words are Quin fundamentum hic pro dectrinâ sumatur minime dubiumest and there 's no doubt saith he hut the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles is here put for doctrine Paul names not here the Patriarchs or godly Kings but those only who had the office of teaching and the faith of the Church is founded upon their doctrine Thus far Calvin In like manner Piscator who saith that Paul compareth the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets to the foundation of a house See also what that learned Scot M. Rolloc saith upon the place We affirm that the foundation upon which the faith of the Church is updeld is the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets of Christ To the same purpose also Chrysâ—stome and in their Controversies the learned Whitaker and Chamier who will inform you if understood You complain that this passage of yours is ranked among infamous and pernitious errours viz. That it is no foundation of Christian Religion to believe that the Scriptures are the word of God Believing you say of the Scriptures is an act of man Now no act of man is the foundation of Christian religion Only Christ is the foundation 1 Cor. 3.11 1. In that place of Hagiom out of which this infamous errour is taken you deal craftily or which is most like cloudily for your aim was to prove him guiltlesse who denieth the being of the Scriptures and not that forbeareth the believing of them For your argument Christ is the foundation and therefore not any act of man as the beleeving of the Scriptures 't is very false and feeble for though no act unto which man is enabled by God such as beleeving is a foundation in that sense in which Christ is upon whom we build the hope of our salvation to be obtained by his mediation Yet beleeving of the Scriptures as it is an assenting to a main and prime Credendum viz. that the Scriptures are by divine inspiration Arg lib 1. de doct Christ cap. 37. Tiâ—ubabit sides si
distinctnesse your writings throughout have more of words then matter and yet more of mud then either But At your command I shall consult the pages wherein you would be thought to say The Scriptures are the Word of God In the former as also pag. 17. where you seem to be most full in declaring your sense You say to this purpose That you grant the matter and substance of the Scripture The gracious counsels to be the Word of God as That Christ is God and man that he died that he rose again c. You are come to a high pitch of ingenuity I assure you These things you having said you thinke you may lawfully charge the Ministers with craft and wickednesse for setting down barely that conclusion of yours pag. 18. Questionles no writing whatsoever whether Translations or Originals are the foundation of Christian Religion 1. But what will please you The Subscribers are in some strait how to content you when they only set down the conclusion and result of your words you say they deal wickedly because they expresse no more and when they cite a whole page you say they doe it that they may represent you to the Reader for a man of monstrous and prodigious errours one of which cannot be expressed or contained in fewer words then would fill a whole page Yet on the other side If they pitch only upon the errour you say they cite your words barely and suppresse craftily your sense 2. Though the Subscribers did set down this your Conclusion without reciting your long-winded passages which you premise yet deserve they not this your reviling Div. author of Scrip p. 18. as if they had wrong'd you For the conclusion being the result of the premisses if your conclusion be crazie and hereticall your premises must needs be so too and therefore the setting of them down would not have helped you at all and if the conclusion be not hereticall why doe you not defend it against the accusation of the Subscribers which you neither doe nor dare to doe but only send the Subscribers to the thirteenth page leaving the poor eighteenth to mercie 3. Suppose you had in the thirteenth page written the truth therefore ought you not to be blamed for writing errours in the eighteenth page Nay ought you not the rather to be blamed Suppose that found truths were laid on the top of your book might you not be blamed for laying rotten errours at the bottome Satan knows that the one must make the other vendible and the Subscribers did but labour herein to spoil his mercat 4. I suppose the subscribers did not set down your sense concerning the divine Authority of the Scriptures in the thirteenth page because it had no relation either clear or doubtfull to the passage in this eighteenth page For in the thirteenth page you say you assert the Scriptures to be the word of God and here in the eighteenth page you come with your Questionlesse no writing whatsoever whether translations or originalls are the foundation of Christian Religion But you seem to complain that you who have granted the Scriptures i.e. the gracious counsels matter substance of them to be the word of God should be blamed though you say Questionlesse no writing whatsoever is the foundation of Christian religioâ— but mistake not for though you have granted what no Papist nay what no christian in a sense did ever yet deny yet upon what ground have you granted even this you give the reader nothing to shew for this grant but only your good nature and ingenuity you tell me pag. 13. that you beleeve the precious counsells matter and substance of the Scripture to be of divine authority but though you beleeve so yet what ground give you me to beleeve so with you none I am sure p. 10. Div. Autho. where you deny both the English Scriptures and the Hebrew and Greek Originals themselves to be the word of God Div. Autho. p. 10. Nor give you me any ground to beleeve with you that the counsells of the scriptures are the word of God in p. 12. when you say That they who have the greatest insight into the originall languages yea and who beleeve the Scriptures unto salvation Div. Autho. p. 12. cannot upon any sufficient ground beleeve any originall copie under heaven whether Hebrew or greek to be the word of God with a world of such stuff Nor give you any ground to beleeve the matter counsells c. of the Scripture to be the word of God p. 18. where you say Questionlesse no writing whatsoever whether translations or originalls are the foundation of Christian religion much lesse in that of Hag. p. 38. where in regard of the mortality of words you make the meaning of the originalls impossible to be certainly understood nay by all these passages of yours you hinder me from beleving as much as in you lieth that the matter substance counsells c. of the Scriptures are the word of God for how can any beleeve the matter substance c. of the Scripture to be the word of God when as he must be uncertain whether the written word or Scriptures wherein that matter is contained are the word of God or no I suppose when you say that the matter of the Scriptures represented in translations and originals is the word of God p. 17. you suppose that it should be beleeved for such but upon what ground ought I to beleeve it I hope you will not say because a province of London-Ministers saith it is to be beleeved nor barely because the spirit tels me is to be believed for the word of God 2 Pet. 1 19. for the spirit sends me to the written word and bids me by that to trie the spirits and tells me I must beleeve nothing to be from God or for my own eternall good but what I finde written I therefore desire to go to the written word as revealâ—d by God for the building my confidence upon the counsells and matter of the Scriptures as pardon through Christ c. But then J. Goodwin tels me this written word is not Gods word nor are any writings in the world Originals or Translations to be lookt upon as such If so they must be the word of vain man and so I have no more to shew for the precious truths that Christ died for sinners and lost man c. then mans word I pray consider what are become of your disciples to use your own phrase their soul provisions their hope of eternall blessednesse when as thus you deny the written word How doth my soul pitty your poor deluded followers who have such a soul starving or soul-poysoning shepheard set over them the Lord knows I hardly write these things with dry eyes Whereas therefore you send the subscribers and readers to your pages alledged I shall do the like and desire them to take notice that you make no distinction between the res credenda and the ratio
power to render the motions of grace in effectuall to it self all the requifite motions of grace being afforded If you grant that grace is certain infallible and determinative in its operation upon the will I desire lastly to know whether you mean that this invincibility and infallibility of the working of grace be only to be lookt upon as such respectu eventus in regard of what doth fall out and de facto doth come to passe or whether the certain determination of the will by grace proceedeth from the powerfull nature of that grace of God which as Austin saith no hard heart is able to refuse untill I clearly understand your minde in these particulars the pretending of the adjutory of grace in the generall renders you but suspected in the thoughts of the most and truly satisfactory to none The residue of the soil in your Pamphlet is so light and sandy for the subiect as for the manner of handling any subject it is such all over that now my pen will plough apace I first meet with a long winded sentence consisting of above ten lines which is a complication of falsities reproaches and non-sence If I can discern any thing through a fog of words Sion Col. visited p. 25 Answ it hath something like these particulars It is the calamity of these times to iudge truth and errour commensurable with the votes of the Ministers The calamity of the times is in that we do not judge truth and errour commensurable with the vote of the Scripture Such sectaries as your self have thrown away that measure that so you might trade in your ware-house with the greater advantage and instead thereof you make use of a false measure your own imagination My soul pitties your cheated chapmen But how is it you will not have truth and errour commensurable with the vote of the Ministers If M. Goodwins vote be not the standing measure of truth and errour for his followers what is I am sure according to his principles the written word cannot be it Sion Col. visited p. ult for that is not the word of God Name a third measure Sir but if it should happen to be an Enthusiasme I shall expect but a faint prosecution of your ingagement against quaerisme as you call it or seeking which you say you are now opposing in your publike Ministery And I beleeve that you are doing so as truly as you are opposing Antiscripturisme and Manicheisme the former whereof you patronize and the latter you understand not as I have proved They have engrossed the honour and reputation of being Orthodox unto themselves Sion Col. visited p. 25. Ans You grieve that others should be reputed Orthodox alone without you but why do you not grieve that others should be Orthodox alone with you Reality is better then Reputation and 't is better to be then to be accounted Orthodox And as for honour that will flie from you as long as you flie from honesty Intreat God to give you the heart of an Orthodox Minister and you will soon have the honour of such an one otherwise know that your present dishonour is nothing to your future shame either to posterity or eternity Think upon it in time 't is friendly advice They the Ministers Sion Col. visited p. â—5 still square their votes concerning truth ' and errour by the traditions of the Elders he meaneth the Fathers If you be not for traditions Ans you are for nothing since you have thrown off the written word For ought I know tradition is the best flower in your garden but charge not the Ministers with being for any traditions but written and for these I confesse they are so zealous that for your opposing them they have deservedly placed you in the forlorn of the erroneous And scoff not too much at the Elders I knew the time even when you were writing the preceeding page that you would fain have been beholding to them And could you then have perswaded those Elders to have blest you with but one tradition you would not now have blasted the tradition of the Elders But now you are like a beggar who when he cannot prevail for an alms goeth away railing But I marvell how the younger I mean Bucer and Ball escape your reviling They were as far from pitying you and as forward in chastising you as the Elders I shall add Some of Pelagius's friends may haply take it ill at your hands that when you were shooting reproaches among the Elders you did not desire your Patron Pelagius to stand aside Sir to be short with you the Ministers sometimes use but never depend upon the traditions of the Elders One of the best traditions that ever I learned from any of the Elders was from Tertullian and 't is this Custome without truth is but the antiquity of errour Your next passage breaths a malice ranklie savouring of atheisme Your book goeth out like a snuff and now fumeth with nothing but reproaches against the government of Christ Prophanation of Scripture and elevation of your self The Ministers of the Province of London Sion Col. visited p. 25. cannot but be full of this information that there was more of the truth and power of Religion in England under the Praelaticall government then in all the reformed Churches besides The best successe unto which they can with any colour of truth entitle this government is but the successe of gardiners sheers which prosper only by the snipping off and keeping under those thriving branches which else would out-grow their fellows You say that travellers have fild the Ministers of London Ans with information but there 's one that I fear hath fild you with this among a great deal of other false information I fear 't is he that is the greatest traveller and the greatest liar in the world The Lord rebuke thee Satan For your telling us that the praelaticall government was more blest with the power of religion then any reformed Church Quiâ—â—â—â— in cathedrâ â—â—gebit ingebeâ—nâ— I know not why you mention it unlesse it be to make Satan sport as if you were his jester Or to give aquavitae to Antichrist in his fainting fits Was the power of religion more under praelaticall govornment then in any reformed Churches Here 's a good commendation in the mean time for Independent Churches for praelaticall government had more religion you say then ALL the Reformed Churches And if so I say then Independent Churches too unlesse you will evade my argument by saying that Independent Churches were not then formed or if they were formed were not reformed so well as the praelaticall but so as you may scratch Presbytery you care not though you wound your self 2. Why tell you not the reader that the power of religion decayed in the daies of no government as well as it thrived in the daâ—es of praelaticall government you were afraid the Reader would have drawn this conclusion thence It s better with Religion
when people are suffered to do no more then the Praelates will then when they are suffered to do as much as themselves will The speaking of the whole truth would have laid your way as low as it raiseth praelacy â—igh 3. What 〈◊〉 informed you of such a decay of the power of religion in all the reformed Churches as that England did so much exceed them I blesse God for what I have seen in Exgland and I magnifie his name for what I have read and heard from other reformed Churches If we went before them in some things haply they might have the precedency in other I suppose it is with Churches as with Christians God variously dispenseth his graces he bestows upon some an eminency in one upon others in another haply they might hold forth a clearer torch to discover Antichrist then we and peradventure it might burn hotter then ours And its likely on the other side that for practicals many of ours at home might excell them and our walkings might be more even I have observed sometimes that a man who followeth a torch walks more steadily and not in so much danger of stumbling as he who carrieth it Sir I should not much contend about your commendation of the power of religion under prelacy did I but see you so to recollect the former power of Religion as to be humbled for the present weaknesse of it and to resolve that weaknesse into its proper cause I mean a toleration of all ungodlinesse and abominable opinions 4. You that commend prelacy as being blest with the power of Religion I pray tell me whether was this power of religion upheld and preserved by any goodnesse in the pralaticall government or did God only make it an occasion to drive his people closer to himself by their persecutions and unquietnesse in outward respects and haply by sinfull impositions If the latter be true that praelacie only were such an accidentall occasion of the power of religion you might as well for ought I know have commended the greatest enemies of the Church and have commended the fitnesse of Potiphars house for Joseph but why do you compare Praelacie to a governmnt that God hath blessed even when it hath been in a manner under persecution and savoured only of Ecclesiasticall mildnesse not medling with the purse or the body but tending to recover the soul and oppose sin If the former be true that the power of religion was from the goodnesse of praelacy as its cause you have then quite undone Independency which is never like by Anarchy the quite contrary to Pralacy to produce the same effect of the power of religion For that your horrid expression that the only successe of the Presbyteriall government is to snipp off forward branches I told you even now who the traveller was that fild you with this information A falsehood ordinarily palpable maketh its refutation easy but when in falsity it is astonishing the hearer cannot but a while suspend his reply It fared thus with me in reviewing this passage Is it possible thought I that a man who pretends not only to be a Christian but a Minister should thus far throw off both but I lookt upon you as the non-such of your way and so I recollected my thoughts into the way of an answer I would know who are the forward branches that the sheers of Presbytery snipp off Are they fruitfull branches or are they not rather suckers who draw away that nourishment from others which might make them fruitfull and convert it into thriving in heresies in Atheisme and unholy opinions If so I see no reason but the throwing away the sheers would be the overthrowing of the plant Sion Col. visit p. 6. Ans An evill eye upon the Parliament is no dissenting character of the Genius of the Ministers of London Me thinkes these words are hardly sence but I have taken you tripping so often that I shall not now be rigid Your meaning is The London Ministers have an evill eye upon the Parliament The Parliament hath suffered with grief I speak it ever since Sectaries would needs be their advocates It was better with them when you wrote your Theomachia Accuse not the Ministers of an evill eye toward the Parliament If your eyes be good toward them I am sure they are lately cured The Reader knows by what eye salve What remains of this weak Pamphlet consists of nothing but three or four prophanations of Scripture Sion Col visit p. 26. and some four or five nauseous commendations of the Authour and book For the former you say that the reason why your pen moved against its accusers rather then your fellow-hereticks was because Christ saith the stones would cry if the honour of Christ should not be vindicated Answ and you say you were loth that the stones and tiles should take this honour from you There 's not an errour transcribed out of your books but tends to the high dishonour of Christ the deniall of his Scriptures of his grace and for your persisting in these The stones indeed might speak though not for you but against you 'T is a miracle the stones and tiles of the houses do not speak about the ears of one so prophane and erroneous I bear my charge upon my shoulder with more then patience Sion Col. visit p 26. even with joy I admire more the patience of God in forbearing to punish you Ans then yours in bearing your panishment and let me hear of sorrow for sin before you tell mâ— again of joy in your sorrows The two theeves had not suffered death Sion Col. visited p â—â— but to colour over the crucifying of Christ and no testimony had been given at this time against the heresies of the other had not the 52. judged it expedient that my name should be blasted I doubt whether the comparison between your self and Christ Anws savours not of blasphemous arrogancy A parallel between your fellow-heretickes who have rob'd God of his glory and theeves would have held good had it been between your self and them it would have been better but could you make it between your self and the penitent thief it would be best of all I wish that what you write in the end of your book among the erraâ—â— could admit of this charitable construction of your repentance The words are these For Excusabilis you desire the Reader to read Inexcusabilis however I shall add this the truest sentence in all your book is this which you place among your errours â‚ FINIS