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A68210 A Christian letter of certaine English protestants, vnfained fauourers of the present state of religion, authorised and professed in England: vnto that reverend and learned man, Mr R. Hoo requiring resolution in certaine matters of doctrine (which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of Christian religion, and of the church among vs) expreslie contained in his fiue books of Ecclesiasticall pollicie. Willet, Andrew, 1562-1621, attributed name.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603, attributed name. 1599 (1599) STC 13721; ESTC S107562 38,506 52

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for the vse of those great giftes which God hath bestowed vpon you that you woulde returne and pervse advisedlie all your five bookes compare them with the articles of our profession set out by publick authoritie and with the workes Apologeticall other authorised sermons homilies of our church and of the Reverend Fathers of our Lande and with the holie booke of God and all other the Queenes Maiesties proceedings and then read and examine with an indifferent equall minde a booke sett out in Latin called Querimonia Ecclesiae and an other in Englishe late come abroade speaking of Scotizing and Genevatising Allobrogicall Discipline and having maturelie with a iudicious cōscience in the feare of God pondered and wayed them in the ballance of trueth and iustice then tell vs roundlie and soothelie That if the Reverende Fathers of our church assisted with some of the approved divines of both Vniversies did reade peruse and examine your bookes and those two other bookes whether they would not iudge in their conscience and giue sentence with their mouthes that by those three writinges the Church of Englande and all other christian Churches are vndermined and that they are verie notable bellowes if Gods mercie stayed it not to blowe the coales of sedition and fierie civill warre betweene all christian Churches and to make all people who reade them to fall either flatly to Atheisme or backewarde to poperie when they shall see all godlie Ministers and christian churches by men of their owne side and profession to be so openlie traduced and notoriouslie detected and all the articles of our Religion many partes of our church government to be checked blamed or cōtradicted And might they not thinke that the Popes factors in Englande haue some intelligence with such writers Or is that new found discipline so neerlie seated with our English creed that such expert archers ayming at the one must needes hit the other Our last scruple and demaund is this seeing your bookes bee so long and tedious in a stile not vsuall and as wee verelie thinke the like harde to be found farre differing from the simplicitie of holie Scripture and nothing after the frame of the writinges of the Reverend and learned Fathers of our church as of Crammer Ridley Latimer Iewell Whitgeeft Fox Fulke c. And that your Prefaces and discourses before you come to the question are so longe mingled with all kinde of matters and sutes of learning and doctrine whether your meaning bee to shewe your selfe to bee some rare Demosthenes or extraordinarie Rabbi or some great Pythagoras that enioyne your schollars or your adversaries to fiue yeares silence before they can be perfect in your meaning or able to replye or that these men you write against bee not sounde in matters of fayth and therefore you handle all thinges or else you had no better way to make doubtfull the chief groundes of our faith and religion and that you would haue men better seene in Philosophie and schoolemens diuinitie and namelie in Aristotle or that you were afearde that if you had not handled it with so graue heroicall and loftie a maiestie you should haue bene reputed like some other man and so your same should haue bene but small or that you would wearie your aduersarie with such thicke and continuall fallinge strokes that hee should not bee able to stande before you to strike one blow against you or that you would beare downe the cause with swelling wordes of vanitie and cunningly framed sentences to blinde and intangle the simple or that you would shew your selfe another Aristotle by a certaine metaphisicall and crupticall method to bring men into a maze that they should rather wonder at your learning thē be able to vnderstand what you teach in your writinge Wee which stande for the defence of our English church highly commend R. H. bookes wee alleadge your opinions as well as wee can to stop the mouthes of foolish carpers Wee commend your books as very excellent and learnedly penned and not to be answered then they promptly aske your reasons and require of vs to shew by what arguments you maintaine those assertions then returne wee to your bookes wee seeke and beate our braynes but are hardely able by our meane capacitie to gather any thinge but as a man a farre of beholding a bryer tree all blowen ouer with his flowers with great desire approacheth neere vnto it and findeth himselfe deceaved so the delight of reading your booke is meruelous great but the fruit thereof howsoeuer it come to passe vnto vs that search and examine it is far vnlike the goodlie shew and appearance In the booke of that most learned and reuerend Father D. Withgift wee finde the question iudicially sett downe his aunswere to the matter in question sensible his reasons eyther from holy scripture from Fathers or new writers without all circumferences and crooked windings directly applied so as such poore men as wee be may beare away what hee saith and what hee intendeth but in your writing wee are mightely incombred wee walke as in a labyrinth and are suddenlie ouerwhelmed as in the deepe sea sometime it seemeth to vs that wee see great florishing of warlike and glittering weapons and to heare the lowde outcryes and noyce of them which pursue their enemies in battell thundring gunshott tossing of speares and ratling of harnesse yet cannot we perfectly perceaue any thinge almost rightly to touch the aduersarie pretended but rather as in our demandes before wee verely thinke doeth manifestly appeare most heauie stroakes poysoned pellettes and dangerous pushes of the pikes against the Ierusalem of God the holy Christian church of Englande whom you would seeme to defende Wee desire you therefore with all instancie that you would not denie vs three things First to shewe vnto vs what arguments you haue alleadged which are materiall and of waight which are not to bee found in the aunswere of that reuerend Father vnto Maister Carthwright and herein plainly to de clare which be your arguments or direct aunswers which are neither fine and close Ironies or blustring bitter scoffes begging of the question or peremptorie affirmations and how wee may knowe what is the state of the question and when you are in or out and what you holde in your conscience to bee the trueth in Gods sight howe great and large your fiue bookes would bee if you had vsed reasonable intelligible and logicall argumentes onely as other writers and disputers doe and had left out all needlesse wittie gloses and Rhetoricall shadowes in preambles discourses digressions amplifications and had kept your selfe out of the common iayle of sophisticall elenches and impertinent outleapes and had followed S. Peters prescript in a meeke reuerend and direct apollogie and defense proceeding from a good conscience Secondly that if you sett foorth your other bookes which are promised you would bee more playne and sensible and followe the vsuall language and stile of
other learned men and English writers leauing out vnnecessarie long discourses and common places sett out your reasons in playne termes and wordes of sinceritie without these hugie embossements or stuffed bumbasing that poore playne men which cannot skill of such hidden misteries may perceaue and learne something by your great travailes Thirdly that you would bee carefull not to corrupt the English creede and pure doctrine whervnto you haue subscribed either by philosophie or vaine deceate of schoolemens newborne diuinitie or by any other beggerly rudiments of this worlde nor sett these Churches by the eares with these closely caried and daintie insinuations and that through desire of vayne glorie you prouoke not your brethren and helpe the common and sworne enemie which fighteth against God against Christes church against our peaceable cuntrie and against our religious godly and christian Princesse And especially that you beware in the cause of supremacie to giue your lawfull soueraigne her right and full due and not so to make the Church of Rome of the familie of Christ IESVS that you lift vppe the sonne of pride the blasphemous tyrant the Pope into that hie chayre of pestilence to bee Christes vicar vpon earth and ministeriall head of his vniuersall Church For as there is one that saith the church of Rome is Mater nostra our mother So if you should goe but one step further we know not what iniurie may be done to her Maiesties rightfull Imperiall Crowne and dignitie And lastely that you remember him which is hie and excellent the king of all glorie and Lord of all power that you please not man to displease God seeking your self you forsake not your own mercie You knowe that it is written Only by pride doth man make contention but with the well advised is wisedome And when pride commeth then shame commeth but with the lowlie is wisedome You know also who hath saide Vengeaunce is mine c. And againe Touch not mine anointed and doe my Prophetes no harme And againe The Lord knoweth the way of the righteous and the way of the wicked shall perish Now in all these things good Maister Hoo. though wee thus write we doe not take vpon vs to censure your bookes neither rashly to iudge of you for them but because wee bee all children borne in this Church and euery child louing his mother is ielous ouer that which seemeth disgracefull to his mother and all Christians are exhorted to contende earnestly for the faith which was once giuen to the saints and he that toucheth our faith toucheth the apple of our eye Wee could not but vtter our inwarde greefe and yet in as charitable manner as the cause in hande would suffer for is it not a great matter when you seeme to vs to make a wide open breach in the church and to stayne the pure doctrine of faith wee seeke that the trueth bee not darkened or defaced and that you by wise playne and honest resolution vnto these our doubtes and demandes may approue your selfe as the faithfull and sincere seruant of Iesus Christ. If then in all these our demaundes and requestes you doe louingly and faithfully satisfie vs your natiue countrymen who haue sucked out the sincere milke of the Gospell by the doctrine in England professed published and preached by sermons apologies articles and reading of holy scripture euen now these 40. yeares for whiche wee are not able to render sufficient prayse and thankes to our most mercifull Father in IESVS Christ and namely for that worthie instrument of our ioy that blessed Halcyon and Christian Deborah his annoynted hande-mayde our soueraigne Ladie and Queene Elizabeth whom the sunne of righteousnes hath raysed vpp to still the raging streames and roaring waues of Gods enemies euen the cursed Cananites of Romish Babilon whose peaceable and florishing raigne wee most humbly pray the mightie God of heauen the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ still to continue in ioy and honour if indeede you aunswer our desire in loue and faithfulnesse we shall haue good cause to commende well of your sincere meaning we shalbe beholdinge vnto you for your godly zeale in defending our church and giue vnto you your condigne praise in all places for your true and vpright dealing and pray earnestlie vnto God for you that such excellent giftes and graces which he hath vouchased vnto you aboue many may be alway wisely imployed to the aduancing of the glorie of the most high God and of his most glorious Sonne Iesus Christ our Lorde to the furtherance of the prosperous wealth of his holy Church the fruitfull seruice of your soueraigne Prince and natiue countrie and to your owne inward comfort and vndeceavable ioy of conscience in and through Iesus Christ our blessed Lorde and Saviour to whom bee all praise and glorie in his Church and in all places of the world for euer Amen Faultes to be corrected Folio 3. lin 31. read fauoring Fol. 11. lin 2. read pearcing Idem lin 30. read helped Fol 18. lin 28. for sonne read same Fol. 19 lin 30. read professed Fol 22. lin ult then read them Fol. 34. lin penult read ingenuously Fol. 35. lin 14. read such Fol. 37. lin 19. take away the puncte Fol. 40. lin 13. after absent put a parenthesis thus 1. The Deitie of the Sonne a Artic. 1. de ●ide in sacrosanctaram Trinitatem b Quicunque vult in the book of common prayer b booke 5. pag. 113. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 5. a Artic. 2. 5. 2 The coeternitie of the Sonne proceeding of the holy Ghost b Prouer. 8. 2● c Ioh. 1. 1. d Iohn 17. 5. e Ioh. 15. 2● a Booke 1. pag. 86. 87. f Artic. 6. De diuinis scripturis The holy scripture containe all thinges necessarie to saluation b Booke 2. pag. 122. c Booke 1. pag. 88. Lin. 36. Last lin a Coloss. 2. 10. b Rom. 3. 27. c Act. 4. 12. d 1 Cor. 2. 14. e Ioh. 3. 3. 4. Holy scripture aboue the Church a Replie of Bb. Iewell against Harding arti 15 pag. 537. b Reioynd to Brist replye by W. Fulk pa. 84. c ibid. pag. 99. d Booke 2. pag. 102. e Booke 2. pag. 146. f lin 38. a Esaie 52. 6 14. b Act. 2. 37. and b 17. 11. c 1 Cor. 2. 4. d 1 Cor. 3. 1. 2. e Psal. 19. 7. a 1 Iohn 5. 9. b Heb. 4. 12. c Psal. 2. d 2 Cor. 10. 3. 4. a Artic 10. De libero arbitrio 5 Of free will b Booke 1. pag. 60 61. a Ephe. 2. 5. b 2 Cor. 3. 5. c Phil. 2. 13. a Artic. 11. De hominis iustificatione a Of fayth and workes b Booke 1. pag. 82. c Booke 1. pag. 95. d Booke 5. pag. 221. e Booke 5. pag. 208. a Galat. 3. 21. 22 b Rom. 4. 6. a Mat. 5. 16. b Rom. 12. 1. c 1 Ioh. 4. 11. 19 d 1 Pet. 2. 12. 15 7 The virtue of workes a
the assenting of the people with no lesse alacritie of minde then cities vnable to holde outlonger Are these anie other but bitter skornes and despitefull fictions And to omitt many things because this is a personall cause we doe most hartilie begge at your handes to aunswere vs truelie and faithfullie whether you thinke Maister Calvin to haue bene an honest truehearted christian fearing God and not an imposter and a deceaver of the people or at the least you would haue men so to esteeme of him For howe can wee otherwise coniecture in that you blame him more for the countenancing of discipline beeing established then for establishing of it affirming with no small incitements of cunning insinuations that because hee by wisedome and not by the word of God saw that discipline requisite for that people hee imployed all his witt by sifting the very vtmost sentence and sillable of holy Scripture to confirme the same and not to omit the leaste occasion in all his writinges following of extolling the vse and singular necessitie thereof If wee may thus iudge of his faithfulnesse in promoting of discipline what may wee suspect of his sincere dealing in the doctrine About rites as the ministring with common bread you acknowledge that he would not stande with the Church to make trouble for a thinge indifferent and why if he were a good man should we thinke that hee would professe it to bee trayterous cowardlines not to dye a hundred times rather then to suffer that to bee wickedly borne downe which hee very well knew to bee taken out of the word of God Can you so farre make manifest eyther by good and iust presumptions or by playne and true storie his deepe hipocrisie and arrogant pride that euen against his owne conscience hee woulde so earnestly striue and trouble the whole Church to maintaine a deuise of his owne Wee pray you therefore to shewe vs sincerelie whether such insinuations bee charitable and whether if you bee a friend to the Gospell you make not a greater rent in Gods Church by such arguments then if you medled not at all in the matter but left it to men of more stayde and sounde discretion and of a more charitable and peaceable spirite For if such bolde and bare affirmations may goe for payment why may wee not as well heare and beleeue Maister Harding which calles all the whole and pure doctrine beleeued and professed in England A wicked new deuise of Geneva We desire you therfore in the name of our Lorde Iesus Christ who shall iudge all men at his cōming and make manifest the intents thoughts of the heart to shew vnto vs without all artificiall glozing whether all this your treatise of Calvin be not polished armour and a sharper rasor prepared for the vse and helpe of the enemies of the Gospell and that it may not rather bee called a preiudiciall commentarie and a Popish paraphrase then a storie true plaine and without partialitie and that men haue not iust cause to thinke the better of Maister Calvin and the cause of discipline when they see so litle plaine and faithfull dealing in your writing Reade therefore his preface before his comment on the Psalmes and Beza his storie of his life and the French or any other stories or monuments of faithfull honest Christians and then aunswere faithfully the trueth and shewe your honest meaning Our reverend Fathers converting their studies frō schoole authors vnto the holy scriptures and causing others to do the like brought many to be well seene in divinite and themselues and others well affected in Religion and therefore constantlie affirme that The heauenly doctrine of our Sauiour Christ was so buried in the darkenesse of schoole-learning that no man tasted the sweetnes of it which to be true that worthy man Martin Luther through Gods goodnes to his Church finding by great experience in him selfe and others is bolde to say Theologia illa scholastica exulem nobis fecit veram sincer am theologiam That schoole diuinitie hath banished from vs the true sincere divinitie And againe Totus Aristoteles ad Theologiam est tenebra ad lucem All Aristotle vnto divinitie is darkenes vnto light Now in all your bookes although we finde manie good things many truethes and fine pointes bravelie handled yet in all your discourse for the most parte Aristotle the patriarch of Philosophers with divers other humane writers and the ingenuous schoolemen almost in all pointes haue some finger Reason is highlie sett vp against holie scripture and reading against preaching the church of Rome favourablie admitted to bee of the house of God Calvin with the reformed churches full of faults most of all they which indeuoured to be most removed from conformitie with the church of Rome Almost all the principall pointes of our English creede greatlie shaken and contradicted If you doe not sincerelie plainelie and truelie aunswere all these our necessarie doubtes and demandes what shall we haue cause to thinke of these your tedious and laborious writinges Shall wee doe you wronge to suspect you as a privie and subtill enemie to the whole state of the Englishe Church and that would haue men to deeme her Maiestie to haue done ill in abolishing the Romish religion and banishing the Popes authoritie and that you would bee glad to see the backesliding of all reformed churches to bee made conformable to that wicked synagogue of Rome and shame and reproche to all faithfull Ministers whom GOD hath raysed vp to reveale and beate downe Antichrist and that you esteeme the preaching and writing of all the Reverend Fathers of our Church and the bookes of holy scripture to bee at the least of no greater moment then Aristotle and the Schoolemen Or else doe you meane to bring in a confusion of all thinges to reconcile heauen and earth and to make all religions equall Will you bring vs to Atheisme or to Poperie or to prepare a plott for an Interim that our streetes may runne with blood when all religious shalbee tollerated and one shall bearde and provoke another Are there not examples sufficient of vnspeakeable massacres abroade vnlesse wee should fett the same home to our countrie reioycing vnder the blessed vnitie of the Gospell of peace Thinke you that the longe experience of Gods protection in these golden dayes of quiet concorde the religious and peaceable heart of our deare soueraigne Ladie and Queene ELIZABETH for whose ioyful preservation all good and christian minded English men doe vnceasantlie pray and the thousandes of faithfull subiectes who haue learned Christ vnder the shadowe of her most happie and honorable reigne would euer giue you thankes for such great service or euer agree vnto such abhominations if they should once beginne to espie such stratagemicall operations to appeare in their effectes and to shewe them selues directlie and openlie We beseech you therefore in the Name of IESVS Christ and as you will aunswere