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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41329	The plea of the children of believing-parents for their interest in Abraham's covenant, their right to church-member-ship with their parents, and consequently their title to baptism. The cause of publishing this discourse after so many learned men have laboured in this province, is declared in the preface to the reader. By Giles Firmin.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1683 (1683)	Wing F960; ESTC R216413	52,287	130

Baptism was never so strongly opposed nor better defended than it hath been within these forty yearts in this English Nation I think there is enough Written to satisfie the minds of sober Christians but the Enemy of the Church is not yet quiet nor will be till the Church Militant becomes Triumphant A difference we may observe between Christians now and those in former times in England since I can remember How wary were they then what Doctrines they received Tho' they would not pin their Faith upon any Mans Sleeve yet they would consider what Persons they were for soundest of Faith and Holiness in Conversation from whom they would receive any Doctrine which hath made me wonder many times how this Doctrine of Anti-Pado Baptism which was first hatch'd in the Brain of that Notorious Heretick for so upon search I find him Auxentius Chereshed by Pelagius and afterwards revived by Men of corrupt Minds and lewd Conversations as that Learned and Pious Martyr Mr. Philpot tells his Fellow Prisoner in Newgate That this wretched Doctrine as Mr. Thomas Hooker calls it should fi●● entertainment in the Hearts of any truly Godly as it hath done in England of late At this as I said I have wondered For this was not the frame of the Right Old English Puritans they would have abhorred the Doctrine for the Authors sake Good Mr. Jessey I knew between 50 and 60 years since but then I heard of no Inclination this way and one I have met with truly Pious sound in all other Points humble made no noise of his Opinion whither Re-baptised I cannot tell with him we held Communion in the Holy Supper To me it seems strange and so strange that I will never believe it That Christ should Promise his Spirit to his Church and that good Spirit should suffer both his Martyrs and choice People to err in such a Point if it be an Error from the Apostles days to this day Since the Reformation I believe England Scotland and Ireland have through Gods Rich Grace afforded as many Holy Heavenly Gracious and Learned Men as any Nations under the Sun As smart Enemies to Mystical Babylon of which the Anabaptists tells us Infant-Baptism is a Relique as any Anabaptists can be and have done more against that Babylon than all the Anabaptists that ever were or shall be have done or can do and till of late years I never heard of one what others have done I know not that did approve but did detest this Doctrine till our unhappy Wars in which time and since that time this Doctrine is much spread May I have leave to inquire what should occasion the spreading of this Opinion in this Nation besides the Soveraign pleasure of God who for wise ends may suffer a Gracious Man to err in some particular I have thought of these Causes First The first and chief Reason was even good Men did not improve their Father-Abrahams-Covenant nor their Infant-Baptism Covenant as they ought Hence not improving these they did not experience the goodness of God in them and our advantage by them Then no wonder tho' Men in times of Dispute and Temptations be at a loss and come at last to deny that which others who have improved and experienced have found to be a greater priviledge advantage and support to their Souls under their fears and other temptations Experiences you say unless well grounded upon Scriptures are but deluding Fancies I know it very well therefore the grounds have been well weighed On the other side tho' the Scriptures be plain yet the Gospel and things apprehended only by Faith are such and Temptations about them especially in some Men so strong that if a Man hath not attained to some experience of what he doth believe if his Faith hath not brought in some Spiritual Sense in the Hurricanes of long and strong Temptations a Mans Faith will be terribly shaken in the very Gospel it self The wind having blown at that Door before I could not but take special notice of what the worthy Author of the Book Intituled The fulfilling of Scriptures hath told us concerning that Holy Man and Eminent Servant of Christ Mr. Bruce telling his People I think it to be a greater matter to believe there is a God than people judge p. 430. The same Author speaking about Experience from his own Experience I doubt not how it helps to Witness that great Truth of Godhead p. 111. in the next Page 112. speaks thus It is not the Contemplation of Nature in its highest flight can answer such an Assault of the Devil which may try the most Established Christian Adult in the being of a God c. but then he shews how Experience of God helps the Soul Whether these be not Truths I leave it to those who have been long exercised with these Temptations now if in that Point as to the being of a God than much more as to Gospel Truths that no wonder the Apostle Prays that Beleivers may abound in all Knowledge and Sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Phil. 9. we read Judgment but the Greek word and so the Margent tells you is Sense The Arabick word is very significant Grotius and Gomarus understand by Sense Experience Hemmingius and Zanchie opens the word excellently Some Men are exercised with Temptations exceedingly more than others and God is pleased to be more Dark or exceeding Dark to some over he is to others which hath made me often think and say It is only Divine Teaching and the experimental Sense of what is taught that can make a sound Christian bear up and hold to the Word in the time of long and sore Temptations I could here give a very sad but true Story the like scarce ever heard before pertinent to the Point in hand but I fear the Devil would make ill use of it among tempted Christians and therefore I will not commit it to Writing To return to the Head I am upon If the Anabaptists say How can a Man improve a Nullity and get Experience of it Abrahams Covenant with the Seed of Believers now is Null Infant-Baptism is Null True I do not know how a Man can improve a Nullity But I doubt not there are many Anabaptists in England who lived several years before they drank in this Opinion of Anabaptism and in that time did not think Abrahams Covenant nor their Infant-Baptism to be Null many of them also had Parents not only visible but real Christians I appeal to their Consciences did you in that time before you drank in this Opinion improve the Covenant and your Infant-Baptism did you mind these did you meditate well upon them did you believe them upon these Meditations and Faith did you follow God close and earnestly in Prayer for the benefits of them and tho' you met with Temptations yet did you hold on and what did God give you in nothing no support no relief no comfort from these did you find no advantage to your Souls

THE PLEA OF THE CHILDREN OF BELIEVING-PARENTS for their Interest in Abraham 's Covenant their Right to Church-Member-ship with their Parents and consequently their Title to BAPTISM The Cause of publishing this Discourse after so many Learned Men have laboured in this Province is declared in the Preface to the Reader Baptizandos esse paruulos nemo dubitet quando nec illi hinc dubitant qui ex parte aliqua Contradicunt August de verbis Apostoli Serm. 14. It will surely be rewarded by Christ at the latter day as a work of more then ordinary Charity to have pleaded and maintained the Right of these poor Members of his who want a Tongue to speak for themselves Dr. Tho. Goodwin in his Preface to Mr. Cotton of Infant-Baptism By GILES FIRMIN 1 Cor. 7.14 Else were your Children Vnclean but now they are Holy LONDON Printed for Tho. Simons at the Princes Arms in Ludgate-Street near Ludgate 1683. THE PREFACE TO THE READER IF the Reader demands a reason why after so many Books written by other Men far more able then my self upon this Subject that now I should appear my answer is ready I had as few thoughts of writing as any Man could have of reading any thing of mine upon the Subject But hearing of a Book against Infant-Baptism very much cryed up and observing some discourse about Anabaptism this Spring more in the Town then ever I heard before I sent to borrow the Book I took a brief view of it and the Book was sent for again To spend the Lord's-Day so much as one Exercise upon any Controversie I did much dislike it yet I thought I was bound to say something to it and did borrow a little time before I went on my other course About 〈◊〉 We●ks after I had done come● down an An●●aptist from London to a Town Seven 〈…〉 Miles distant from me and writes me ● Letter informing me That he was one that ●●d walk in Gospel-Communion with Col. Danvers sometimes he stiles him Esq Danvers then writes to me thus You have cast the Odium of Falshood and Fergery upon his Book to your Auditory If it was to deter your Hearers from reading his Book it doth demonstrate the badness of your Cause in that you are not willing it should be inspected If you design thereby to degrade the Gentleman as infamous though unknown you have therein greatly erred therefore I request you on the behalf of Col. Danvers that you be pleased to do him the common Justice as to publish to the World in Print what you have spoken in your more private Meetings by way of detection of his Forgery and not only to Print what you have traduced him with but also any other new things you have Preached that will lend any assistance to your Infant-Baptism that this Gentleman doth endeavour to throw down as a spurious thing several of your own Party have written against him but he with others have so answered them that they have set down silent under The Collonel hath a better Character than you give of him he hath a large Portion of this Worlds goods c. Thus he runs on in commendation of the Collonel and ends it in such a way that neither I nor others that read the Letter could understand his meaning As to this Letter the Reader may please to understand the Book which I borrowed had in the Title Page only H.D. I could not tell whither D. stood for Den whose name I had seen or Dell or Danvars of whose name only I had heard but never saw any thing of his but whoever was the Author I found fault with him 1. For his Falshood in the Historical part which if my Memory fails me not took up above half his Book 2ly His fraudulent dealing 3ly His raising a dust upon the Scriptures he quotes to trouble his Reader 4ly For his Logick But for any other Opinions or any thing concerning his Conversation I speak not one word for how could I when I knew nothing of him and only heard three times as I remember there was one Collonel Danvers an Anabaptist and that was all nor was I certain the Book was his It was never my intent to answer every particular in his Book partly because I would not spend the Lord's Day in Controversies and partly because Catechizing was the thing I intended being far more necessary so that I did grudge the time I spent about this Book out of which I only wrote the most material things and the Book was sent for away For the new things this Epistoler would have me publish Doth he mean new Scriptures or new Arguments or both 1st Why new since the old are not yet answered it is one thing to write against Men another to answer them 2ly Why new since my Author borrows so much old out of Mr. Tombes's Book which I look upon as instar omnium and is the only Anabaptist Book I have 3ly Why new since my Author opposes old Texts and I must take the part of a Respondent 4ly Why new my Epistoler should tell me what Controversies are there which have been handled so long by very able Divines as this hath been that he that comes last hath wrote all new 5ly To conclude then as to these new things I am forced to take up the old Texts because of my Author 's opposing them I do but touch other Texts and not insist upon them where others have been before me for other Mens Arguments I borrow but one from Mr. Baxter and tell you whose it is and improve it my way If I have hit upon other Mens notions it is unknown to me as I see I have upon Mr. Wills in answer to the old Britains but I had given the answer in the Congregation and wrote it in my Coppy before I saw Mr. Wills For his crying Victoria telling me our Divines sit silent under the Answers the Collonel and his Party have given them If this Epistoler read Mr. Baxter's Second Defence of Infants c. he may read a full answer to this and the reason of their silence p. 211. We may allow some Honour to a Collonel but why do they sit silent not because the Collonel or any other Anabaptist have put them to silence by Arguments from Scripture by Truth in History or Strength of Learning the contrary appears to judicious Readers but who will care for dealing with unreasonable Men They have other work to do of higher concernment Let the Anabaptists indulge themselves in their Opinions and Practises Redgness 24. August 1682. if they please I have performed that common Justice my Epistoler requires of me only for brevities sake I left out several things I would have added if this may do the Church of Christ any service I shall have my end and bless God G. FIRMIN THE PLEA OF THE CHILDREN OF Beleiving-Parents c. THE Right of the Children of Beleiving-Parents to Church-Membership with their Parents and consequently to