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book_n history_n time_n year_n 3,198 5 4.9573 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A34082 The right of tythes asserted & proved, from divine institution, primitive practice, voluntary donations, and positive laws with a just vindication of that sacred maintenance from the cavils of Thomas Elwood, in his pretended answer to the friendly conference. Comber, Thomas, 1645-1699. 1677 (1677) Wing C5488; ESTC R39378 85,062 252

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suppose_v you_o think_v thing_n a_o little_a too_o high_a for_o the_o quaker_n capacity_n and_o therefore_o you_o wise_o choose_v to_o insist_v upon_o plain_a matter_n of_o fact_n as_o more_o apt_a to_o instruct_v and_o convince_v this_o kind_n of_o men._n yet_o since_o t._n e._n provoke_v the_o priest_n to_o the_o take_v up_o this_o argument_n again_o i_o hope_v to_o demonstrate_v that_o they_o need_v not_o be_v ashamed_a of_o the_o weapon_n nor_o afraid_a of_o this_o dare_a adversary_n §_o 3._o to_o make_v out_o the_o divine_a right_n of_o tithe_n there_o be_v three_o period_n to_o be_v consider_v 1._o before_o the_o law_n 2._o under_o the_o law_n 3._o the_o time_n of_o the_o gospel_n concern_v the_o first_o period_n before_o the_o law_n you_o say_v very_o little_a in_o your_o conference_n as_o not_o design_v to_o manage_v this_o argument_n only_o i_o perceive_v you_o have_v mention_v that_o the_o divine_a right_n of_o tithe_n be_v derive_v from_o melchisedec_n not_o from_o levi._n 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since_o that_o johannes_n sarisburiensis_n 1180._o sarisburiensis_n ep._n 172._o an._n 1180._o and_o guliel_n occam_fw-la 1330._o occam_fw-la dial._n part_n 3._o tract_n 1._o l._n 3._o c._n 16._o an._n 1330._o to_o name_v no_o more_o final_o then_o if_o t._n e._n have_v either_o shame_n or_o grace_n let_v he_o repent_v of_o this_o foul_a slander_n which_o he_o have_v as_o false_o as_o malicious_o cast_v upon_o our_o forefather_n the_o pious_a saxon_n who_o be_v more_o orthodox_n in_o some_o point_n than_o rome_n itself_o than_o be_v and_o differ_v from_o the_o present_a papist_n in_o all_o the_o most_o material_a article_n of_o faith_n be_v near_a in_o opinion_n to_o the_o protestant_a church_n of_o england_n and_o although_o they_o be_v in_o some_o lesser_a matter_n incline_v to_o superstition_n yet_o they_o be_v very_o devout_a according_a to_o their_o knowledge_n and_o may_v shame_v the_o present_a age_n who_o do_v not_o so_o many_o good_a thing_n though_o they_o have_v more_o understanding_n but_o if_o t._n e._n will_v not_o recant_v i_o shall_v leave_v it_o to_o the_o reader_n to_o judge_v of_o his_o ignorance_n and_o impudence_n in_o say_v tithe_n be_v give_v by_o papist_n and_o idolater_n to_o idolater_n for_o idolatrous_a use_n and_o in_o suppose_v the_o church_n so_o much_o corrupt_v with_o popery_n then_o that_o their_o very_a donation_n be_v not_o fit_a to_o stand_v good_a or_o be_v enjoy_v no_o not_o by_o a_o protestant_a ministry_n §_o 22._o to_o manifest_v that_o the_o donation_n of_o tithe_n be_v not_o popery_n we_o have_v already_o prove_v they_o be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n before_o popery_n come_v in_o and_o now_o we_o shall_v show_v they_o be_v allow_v receive_v and_o confirm_v after_o popery_n be_v turn_v out_o and_o that_o as_o you_o note_v in_o the_o conference_n even_o by_o those_o who_o be_v martyr_n for_o the_o protestant_a faith_n cranmer_n hooper_n ridley_n latimer_n taylor_n and_o
and_o schismatic_n say_v s._n augustine_n com._n augustine_n august_n 50_o epist_n ad_fw-la bonif._n com._n to_o bonifacius_n where_o he_o observe_v the_o donatist_n use_v this_o very_a objection_n which_o our_o quaker_n now_o use_v and_o he_o learned_o prove_v that_o gentile_n be_v first_o to_o be_v invite_v in_o but_o when_o the_o church_n be_v settle_v whatever_o stray_v sheep_n wilful_o leave_v the_o fold_n these_o be_v to_o be_v compel_v by_o law_n and_o moderate_a penalty_n to_o return_v into_o the_o fold_n allege_v that_o to_o compel_v man_n to_o that_o which_o be_v good_a be_v very_o lawful_a and_o a_o act_n of_o necessary_a charity_n to_o their_o soul_n yea_o a_o duty_n of_o christian_a prince_n and_o a_o mean_n which_o have_v bring_v many_o to_o see_v their_o error_n and_o repent_v let_v t._n e._n read_v and_o answer_v the_o excellent_a argument_n in_o that_o epistle_n if_o he_o can_v and_o withal_o let_v he_o observe_v it_o be_v not_o the_o priest_n compel_v they_o but_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n the_o priest_n indeed_o see_v they_o in_o desperate_a heresy_n and_o most_o wicked_a schism_n and_o in_o pity_n to_o their_o soul_n admonish_v they_o warn_v they_o 1_o thess_n v._o 14._o and_o labour_n to_o convince_v they_o by_o argument_n yea_o at_o length_n they_o use_v the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n and_o final_o as_o the_o last_o remedy_n complain_v to_o the_o secular_a magistrate_n to_o try_v if_o any_o thing_n will_v bring_v they_o to_o a_o better_a mind_n know_v that_o sometime_o the_o rod_n and_o reproof_n give_v wisdom_n and_o this_o be_v no_o more_o than_o s._n paul_n threaten_v 2_o cor._n x._o 6._o and_o act_v also_o in_o deliver_v the_o incestuous_a corinthian_a to_o satan_n punsh_v his_o outward_a man_n for_o the_o health_n of_o his_o soul_n 1_o cor._n v._o 5._o it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o a_o careful_a father_n do_v to_o his_o refractory_a son_n let_v not_o they_o therefore_o say_v s._n augustine_n who_o be_v in_o heresy_n and_o schism_n be_v compel_v to_o come_v in_o reprove_v we_o that_o they_o be_v compel_v but_o consider_v whither_o we_o will_v compel_v they_o supra_fw-la they_o august_n epist_n 50._o ut_fw-la supra_fw-la to_o unity_n and_o peace_n to_o a_o right_a faith_n and_o to_o submission_n to_o their_o governor_n to_o the_o service_n of_o god_n and_o the_o salvation_n of_o their_o soul_n nor_o do_v our_o state_n use_v any_o capital_a punishment_n any_o spanish_a cruelty_n or_o popish_a fire_n and_o faggot_n towards_o they_o but_o by_o moderate_a penalty_n labour_n to_o reduce_v they_o which_o be_v no_o more_o than_o the_o first_o christian_n emperor_n do_v to_o reduce_v the_o heretic_n of_o those_o day_n by_o fine_n imprisonment_n banish_v they_o out_o of_o eminent_a city_n burn_v their_o book_n and_o prohibit_v their_o assembly_n but_o still_o preserve_v their_o life_n in_o hope_n of_o their_o repentance_n and_o when_o our_o magistrate_n imitate_v holy_a constantine_n and_o theodosius_n herein_o the_o quaker_n most_o unjust_o call_v it_o persecution_n §_o 50._o he_o add_v pag._n 359._o christ_n give_v we_o no_o power_n to_o demand_v a_o maintenance_n from_o those_o who_o do_v not_o receive_v we_o nor_o do_v we_o demand_v of_o the_o quaker_n to_o give_v we_o one_o single_a penny_n more_o than_o what_o be_v give_v to_o we_o and_o settle_v on_o we_o many_o hundred_o year_n ago_o we_o only_o ask_v our_o own_o we_o only_o ask_v that_o which_o the_o quaker_n do_v not_o take_v of_o his_o landlord_n that_o which_o be_v or_o ought_v to_o have_v be_v abate_v in_o his_o rent_n if_o a_o tenant_n be_v to_o pay_v a_o annuity_n to_o a_o lord_n as_o free-rent_n or_o to_o a_o hospital_n or_o other_o person_n will_v his_o say_n he_o do_v not_o receive_v he_o or_o they_o excuse_v he_o from_o pay_v the_o money_n our_o lord_n jesus_n own_v we_o for_o his_o minister_n and_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n own_v we_o and_o declare_v we_o be_v the_o person_n to_o who_o this_o estate_n belong_v and_o what_o have_v the_o quaker_n to_o do_v to_o dispute_v our_o title_n any_o more_o than_o they_o do_v their_o lord_n title_n to_o his_o estate_n the_o papist_n pay_v we_o tithe_n here_o in_o england_n and_o we_o shall_v pay_v they_o if_o we_o live_v in_o france_n if_o the_o state_n assign_v tithe_n to_o a_o wrong_a order_n of_o man_n it_o be_v their_o fault_n but_o i_o be_o sure_a tithe_n be_v not_o the_o countryman_n he_o may_v not_o keep_v they_o but_o must_v pay_v they_o as_o the_o law_n direct_v and_o be_v innocent_a in_o so_o do_v our_o right_n to_o tithe_n depend_v not_o at_o all_o upon_o man_n be_v willing_a or_o unwilling_a to_o come_v and_o hear_v we_o and_o the_o quaker_n be_v sad_o mistake_v to_o think_v we_o come_v to_o sell_v they_o our_o sermon_n or_o that_o tithe_n be_v a_o price_n which_o be_v the_o quaker_n own_v to_o give_v the_o folly_n of_o all_o these_o pretence_n be_v show_v before_o §_o 51._o as_o for_o go_v to_o law_n for_o tithe_n you_o have_v full_o prove_v it_o lawful_a in_o the_o conference_n and_o the_o quaker_n answer_v not_o one_o of_o your_o argument_n so_o that_o till_o he_o reply_v to_o that_o i_o will_v only_o note_v that_o it_o be_v much_o against_o our_o will_n that_o we_o be_v force_v to_o sue_v for_o our_o just_a due_n and_o where_o a_o legal_a right_n be_v demand_v the_o sin_n lie_v at_o the_o defendant_n door_n who_o will_v maintain_v a_o unjust_a cause_n and_o force_v the_o plaintiff_n to_o use_v this_o uneasy_a and_o ungrateful_a method_n if_o it_o will_v not_o be_v too_o tedious_a i_o can_v show_v he_o example_n of_o primitive_a gospel-minister_n upon_o the_o church_n settlement_n require_v justice_n of_o the_o emperor_n against_o the_o sacrilegious_a invader_n of_o the_o sacred_a revenue_n but_o it_o be_v time_n enough_o to_o produce_v example_n when_o he_o have_v answer_v your_o reason_n already_o produce_v §_o 52._o his_o conclusion_n pag._n 363._o admonish_v i_o that_o it_o be_v time_n for_o i_o to_o conclude_v also_o when_o i_o have_v make_v a_o remark_n or_o two_o upon_o his_o pleasant_a epilogue_n which_o i_o dare_v say_v will_v afford_v you_o as_o it_o do_v i_o the_o just_a occasion_n for_o a_o smile_n to_o observe_v what_o rare_a effect_n the_o happy_a conjunction_n of_o ignorance_n and_o folly_n have_v produce_v in_o your_o adversary_n you_o say_v that_o the_o quaker_n be_v quite_o different_a from_o the_o primitive_a christian_n which_o he_o think_v to_o avoid_v by_o call_v it_o a_o old_a overworn_a objection_n and_o true_o as_o a_o objection_n it_o be_v as_o old_a as_o the_o quaker_n first_o appearance_n in_o the_o world_n but_o the_o answer_n to_o it_o will_v be_v a_o unheard_a of_o novelty_n and_o indeed_o the_o quaker_n may_v be_v ashamed_a to_o let_v the_o objection_n grow_v old_a and_o overworn_a before_o they_o have_v either_o confess_v the_o truth_n or_o make_v some_o satisfactory_a reply_n thereunto_o but_o the_o merry_a passage_n be_v that_o t.e._n who_o know_v nothing_o of_o ecclesiastical_a history_n and_o antiquity_n and_o be_v a_o perfect_a stranger_n to_o the_o judgement_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a christian_n have_v scarce_o hear_v of_o the_o name_n of_o the_o most_o eminent_a father_n as_o he_o have_v abundant_o manifest_v in_o this_o book_n that_o he_o shall_v challenge_v the_o poor_a ignorant_a priest_n and_o attempt_v to_o threaten_v you_o into_o silence_n by_o dare_v you_o to_o dispute_v on_o this_o question_n risum_fw-la teneatis_fw-la amici_n doubtless_o if_o t._n e._n without_o go_v down_o to_o the_o philistine_n of_o rome_n shall_v of_o a_o sudden_a become_v able_a to_o dispute_v well_o about_o the_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n and_o right_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n it_o will_v be_v the_o most_o famous_a instance_n of_o immediate_o inspire_v teach_v that_o this_o age_n ever_o see_v and_o if_o he_o can_v prove_v that_o these_o ancient_a christian_n have_v no_o distinct_a order_n of_o man_n to_o officiate_v in_o divine_a thing_n no_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n no_o baptism_n with_o water_n no_o catechise_v no_o oblation_n at_o the_o altar_n no_o separate_a place_n for_o worship_n and_o set_a form_n for_o sacred_a administration_n no_o festival_n and_o fast_a day_n no_o kneel_v at_o prayer_n no_o sing_n of_o praise_n nor_o answer_v of_o amen_n etc._n etc._n he_o have_v some_o rare_a revelation_n sure_a about_o those_o time_n and_o be_v able_a to_o confute_v s._n ignatius_n justin_n martyr_n irenaeus_n tertullian_n cyprian_n origen_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o those_o elder_a father_n in_o matter_n do_v in_o their_o own_o time_n a_o very_a grand_a undertake_n which_o none_o will_v have_v boast_v of_o but_o t._n e._n and_o none_o but_o a_o undiscerning_a quaker_n can_v be_v persuade_v it_o be_v possible_a to_o be_v