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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19857	A suruey of certaine dialogical discourses: vvritten by Iohn Deacon, and Iohn Walker, concerning the doctrine of the possession and dispossession of diuels VVherein is manifested the palpable ignorance and dangerous errors of the discoursers, and what according to proportion of God his truth, every christian is to hold in these poyntes. Published by Iohn Darrell minister of the gospell.	Darrel, John, b. ca. 1562.	1602 (1602)	STC 6285; ESTC S109295	85,966	179

and therevnto forsooth haue you returned an answer A very easie matter euen as it is for one in straits to helpe himselfe with a lye If at once Gentle Reader thou wouldest see cleerely as in a glasse how corruptly these men deale with my poore writings shamefully abuse both thee and me but most of all themselues then cōpare pages 174 175. of their Dialogicall Discourses with the 31. of the Doctrine But for the further pursuite and enlarging of the aforesaide argument we are to vnderstand that all punishment due to the breach of god his law is so long perpetuall as the breach of gods law doth continew Cursed is euery one which abideth not in all things which are written in the booke of the law to doe them Galat. 3 10 This sentence is perpetually true to the ende of the world And albeit they which haue put on Christ and be dead and risen againe with him are freed from this curse yet all that be called be not chosen nor euery one that saith Lord Lord shall haue him to beare their burthen but shall feele the waight of their owne transgressions Beesides the faithfull are not exempted from the temporall chasticement Neither are the written plagues only the stipend of sinne but all other euils whatsoeuer not mentioned are scourges prepared of the Lord for sinners If thou wilt not keepe and doe all the words of this Law the Lord will bring vpon thee euery sicknes Deut. 28.58 61 and euerie plague which is not written in the booke of this law And that possession is a curse or plague of god it needeth no proofe Yea a greuous one it is that he which was framed the temple of the holy spirit shoulde become a most horrible Caue and Denne of Sathan From hence it must needes follow that possession must haue a perpetuall beinge in the world so long as men shall continue disobedient to god his most holy commaundements Moreouer howsoeuer Sathans kingdome is abolished for the behalf of the elect yet in respect of the wicked he is a god of this world 2 Cor. 4.4 Ephe. 2 2 Ep●● 6 12 a prince of the aer a principallity a power a worldly gouernour of the darknesse of this world Doth the scriptures giue him these titles as if he was a god without a people a king without a kingdome a principallity without all sway and authority in his subiects Therefore except you can shew vs that none of the wicked now a daies be of sathans kingdome or that he doth rule his kingdome without tiranny or that his tyranny hath not wayting vpon it possession or that possession is now no punishment or chasticement for sinne you shall deserue that as youre booke goes now abroad vnder priuiledg so hereafter your selues should haue a priuiledg for euer setting forth any more bokes As the perpetuity of poss ssi●n is and hath bene proued by the holy scriptures and by reason so accordingly there haue bene Demoniacks from Christs time in the successiue ages vntil this day That such there were for the space of 13. hundred yeares from Christ appeareth by the ecclesiasticall histories called the Centuaries as witnesseth Cent. 2. pag. 110. Cent. 3. pag. 136. Cent. 4. pag. 439 440 Cent. 5. pag. 684 685. Cent. 6 pag. 341. Cent. 7. 158. 159. Cent. 8. 341. et 375. Cent. 9. 265. Cent. 10. 320. et 337. Cent. 11 286 et 310. Cent. 12. 909. 910. et 932. Cent. 13. 631. This perpetuity is further confirmed by the testimonie and iudgment of these writers following who for the most part make mention of Demoniacks in their times Apol. 1 Pag 146. Iustine Martyr saith that the christiās ouer all the world healed very many that were p ssessed with euil spirits which other inchaunters In Apolog. coniurers sacrificers could n●t performe as yet saith he those m●n of ours proceede in their purpose See also Iustine Martyr in Tryphone We are a customed saith Tertullian to assaile diuels to driue them away from men And againe We driue out ill spirits with out reward or hire See Tertullian in lib. de Corona militis For breuity especially in so plaine a case I will omit the other testimonies only name the seuerall writers with the booke and page Cyprian ad Demetrianū tract 1. et Sermone d● lapsis et de Idolorum vanitate et lib. 4. epistolarum epistola 7. ad Magnū Soz●m lib. 4. cap. 16. Idem lib. 6. cap. 28. Canon 90 Theodoret lib. 4 cap. 21. Chrisostome in Tom. 5. de i● comprehensibili dei natura hom 4. Augustine lib 8. de ciuitate dei cap. 26 ●useb●us Caesariensis lib. 6. cap. 43. Bullinger in Math. 8.28 Pet. Martyr loc com Sess 4. Cap. 9. Sect. 16 Chytreus in Math. 8.28 Hunnius in Math. 17.15 Philip Melan●thon lib. Epistolarum Chemnicius de Sacramento Ordinis Beza hom 26. in historiam passionis aedit 2. pag. 656. V●gellius in Thesauro Theologico pag. 980. Danaeus in Marcū quest 38. Chassanion loc com lib. 1. cap. 17. Piscator in Math 8.28 But what neede these testimonies specially of the auncient writers sith the Discoursers themselues acknowledg a generall consent among the learned writers as touching the continuance of possession for about eight hundred yeares after Christ and that in these wordes Howsoeuer Iustine Tertullian Cyprian Augustine the counsaile of Brachia pag 172. eccles●asti●all histories doe all ioyntly auouch the continuance of p ss ss on in those t m●s and places wherein they conuersed yet no one of them all doe challenge extraordinary power to disp●sse Sathan But all these say our Discoursers were deceaued either by the cunning ●f the counterfeit or by mistaking ●●me disease not much vnlike poss ssion for p●ss●ssion it selfe Thus fell these good Fat●ers into a strange imagination of some actuall poss●ssion there being indeede no such thing at all Is it not strange that these two petty fellowes that a●e euery foote stumbling and haue as many lyes almost in theire mouthes as they haue propositions should so boldly controule these famous Doctors and writers of Ecclesiasticall storie and condemne them as men simple deceaued and not able to di●cerne of this matter It seemes your Priuiledg hath so inspired you that the certaine knowledg of these things is to be drawne only out of your brests Let vs heare therefore the profound re●sons which these great Clarkes haue against possession in these daies of the gospell The first argument against the perpetuitie of possession pag. 168. Ans 1. The first is this G●d hath not avouched the perpetuity of poss●ssion in any part of his word therefore it was temporary and no way perpetuall Your proposition is false For though it be not set down in expresse wordes yet thence it is to be proued by necessary collection as is euident by the premisses Secondly were it true It maketh sufficiently for the perpetuity of possession that by holy scripture it can be proued