speeches will pretende scriptures But when they haue so done tell them that they peruerte the scriptures to serue their turnes and that thus and thus they must vnderstand them according to the iudgement of all the auncient fathers their aunswere in effecte is this What tell you vs of the auncient fathers Caluin and Beza are the beste expounders of the scriptures Maister Cartwright is a rare birde a worthy wight and as it were Christ himselfe amongest his Apostles They haue taught vs as wee teach they are our fathers who haue begotten in vs a loue and a likinge of the Geneua Discipline and them will wee followe In truth it is pitifull to consider vnto what a height of pride many men are growen It is lesse subiecte to offence to reiect the authoritie of Saint Ierome Saint Augustine or anye of the rest nay to refuse them alltogether then to reiecte the iudgementes eyther of Caluin of Beza or of Cartwright For Maister Caluin and maister Beza I doe thinke of them and of their writinges as they deserue But yet I thinke better of the auncient fathers I must confesse it And for maister Cartwright it is true that hee hath many good partes in him but the ouer-weening which he hath of himselfe and which many besides haue of him is like a lumpe of dowe that sowereth both him and them all You haue heard of what accounte his writinges are with his sectaries insomuch that one of them saith in effecte both for himselfe and for his brethren that without Cartwrightes bookes they cannot come to the knowledge of the truth Cartwrights bookes the way to the truth To speake my conscience they are the waye to manye grosse errors and seditious fancies Of all his bookes I woulde thinke that should beare the price which containeth the iustification of all his deuises and is the last frutes of that Worthies wit I meane his second reply Touching the which booke you shall heare maister Doctor Whitakers opinion from whence especially if some one or two ioyned with him the layer out of men in colours as it hath been sayd will not hastily appeale Thus hee writeth Quem Cartwrightus nuper emisit libellum eius magnam partem perlegi Ne viuam si quid vnquam viderim dissolutius ac penè puerilius Verborum satis ille quidem lautam ac nouam supellectilem habet rerum omnino nullam quantum ego iudicare possum Deinde non modo peruersè de principis in rebus sacris at que ecclesiasticis authoritate sentit sed in papistarum etiam castra transfugit a quibus tamen videri vult odio capitali dissidere Verum nec in hac causa ferendus alijs etiam in partibus tela a papistis mutuatur Denique vt de Ambrosio dixit Hieronimus verbis ludit sententijs dormitat plane indignus est qui a quopiam docto resutetur That is I haue read a great part of that booke which maister Cartwright hath lately published vz this second reply I pray God I liue not if euer I saw any thing more loosely written and almost more childishly It is true that for wordes hee hath great store and those both fine and new but for matter as farre as I can iudge he is altogether barren Moreouer he doth not onely thinke peruersly of the authoritie of Princes in causes ecclesiasticall but also flyeth into the Papistes holdes from whome he would be thought to dissent with a mortall hatred But in this point he is not to be endured and in other partes also hee borroweth his argumentes from the Papistes To conclude as Ierome said of Ambrose hee playeth with wordes and is lame in his sentences and is altogether vnworthy to bee confuted by anie man of learning If anie shall heere obiect that maister Whittakers was not Doctor when hee writ in this sorte My aunswere is this Hee writ this letter about the same time that he beganne to write against Campian when hè had attained alreadie vnto suche ripenesse of iudgement as there is no more daunger hee should nowe be altered in this that hee hath written of Cartwrightes booke then that he should alter heereafter from that trueth which he maintained about the same time against Campian And it is true that hee neuer gaue a righter censure of anie booke in his life Maister Cartwright must content himselfe with it and so must his followers He dependeth himselfe too much vppon Caluin and Beza and so do many amongest vs vppon him Such admiration of mens persons and of their learning must needes be very dangerous It hath euer been the cause of schisme And there was neuer more mischiefe like to grow of it then there is now For I know not how it commeth about but you shall seldome finde any who hath once tasted of the Disciplinary potion that is not forthwith possessed as it were with a wonderfull opinion not onely of the chiefe confectioners and fauourers of it but likewise of themselues And for all other men Fathers Councels newe or olde they little esteeme them if they make any thing against them I might heape vp in this place a number of obseruations which haue been made many hundreth yeares since as concerning suche like courses taken by many and howe they neuer gat to themselues any true reputation thereby but the contrary But I will spare them therein Onely I cannot choose but tell them that the auncient fathers were as wise and learned men as they are that the olde generall Councelles ought to be of as great credite with any but madde men as their conuenticles or Synodes that although wee ought to depend onely vpon the worde of God yet for the interpretation of it we may as safely follow the iudgementes of the auncient fathers of the first generall Councels and of some other learned men as of any of their chiefe patrones and maisters that howsoeuer our owne men doe thinke of themselues yet they are no better then other men Nay there are many equall to the best of them and many who are farre their superiours And I take it that he sheweth himselfe to be their best friendes who by telling them their wantes can bring them to some humilitie In which respect Maister Cartwright is to thanke Doctor Whittakers for signifiyng his iudgement touching that his great bundell of shreddes which some rashe and fond men doe so greatly admire It is most certaine that although the flattering of Parasites doth seeme to bee pleasant yet the woundes of a louer are much more profitable CHAP. XXX How falsly they alleadge the auncient fathers for their pretended parish Bishops and Elders BY that which hath been said in the 5. chapter it appeareth vnto you what litle help they are to look for in the ancient fathers toward the setting forth of the Geneua plat forme They talke of certaine steps traces of that hare in them but more they confesse in some places that they cānot find And yet notwithstanding
exhorting ruling prouision for the poore and attendance vnto them all which no man in his wits wil deny to be perpetuall and in these expressely they which haue the giftes are commaunded to abide and to content themselues with them Wherefore c. These men you see must either haue their Widdowes or else all is marred And haue them they will if distinguishing similitudes diuiding sillogismes and logicke will get them And besides you may perceiue what most vehement patheticall and peremptory men they are in this behalfe Howbeit you shall finde that other men nay whole Churches for all this heat are of another opinion and withall such men and Churches as neither the defender discourser nor sermoner nor all the priuate disciplinarye conuenticles in England will presume in any sort to compare themselues vnto them Maister Beza doth not thinke the hauing of Widdowes to be such an ordinary and perpetuall institution as it hath beene pretended For at Geneua not such a Widdow if you would giue a pounde for her And yet that platforme is either perfect by this time or else there hanges some curse ouer it But this I am sure of that he who durst take vppon him to tell them in Geneua that by their omission of these Widdowes they haue cruelly wounded the body of Christ they had like desperate ruffians cut of one of his members and that in these respectes the forme of their Disciplinary regiment is maimed and deformed might peraduenture repente him of it Indeede either I am very much deceiued or els this dreame of widdowes beginneth to vanish The very principall nay the onely place vz. Hee that sheweth mercy with cheerefullnesse wherevpon they haue hitherto builte to proue them to be such Church-officers as they haue imagined them to be is boldly and with mayne strength wrested out of their handes notwithstandinge that Maister Caluin M. Beza and M. Cartwright had layde as fast hold vpon it as they could Or peraduenture I might rather say that the two which bee aliue seeing their tenure was nought haue willingly giuen it ouer The Champion I meane that hath done this great deede is Maister Trauers Who writeth of this pointe after this sorte That which followeth of him that sheweth mercy nullum certe munus ecclesiae indicare puto c. I thinke it meaneth not any certaine office but what duety the whole Church ought to shew in relieuing the poore Thus farre and further Maister Trauers in his Latine booke as if you will peruse the place you shall perceiue But you must remember that I doe referre you to his Latine booke and not to the Englishe translation of it Why some may say is it not faithfully translated Shall we thinke that such zealous men as had to deale therein would serue vs as the Iesuites doe It is wee know a practise with that false hypocriticall broode to leaue out and thrust in what they list into the writinges of the ancient Fathers that thereby in time nothing might appeare which shoulde any way make against them But wee will neuer suspect nor belieue that any man who feareth God and least of all that any of that sorte which are so earnest against all abuses and corruptions shoulde play vs such a prancke Surely yee doe well to iudge the best and I my selfe was of your opinion But nowe I am cleane altered How were some of Vrsinus workes vsed at Cambridge And it is true that some other Bookes haue beene handled very strangely else-where But concerning the present point this is the trueth The translator of Trauerses Booke hath quite omitted the wordes which I haue alleadged and all the rest that tendeth to that purpose euen seuenteene lines together So as if you see but the Englishe Booke you shall not finde so much as one steppe whereby you might suspect that euer Maister Trauerse hadde carried so harde a hande ouer the pretended Widdowes If the translator had receaued any Commission from the author to haue dealt in that sorte with his Booke yet it shoulde haue beene signified eyther in some Preface or in some note or by some means or other but to leaue such a matter out and to giue no generall warning of it I tell you plainely it was greate dishonesty and lewdenesse It were better for them to giue ouer their platformes in the plaine field then to seeke to maintaine them with such apparaunt falshoods Well let them take their course and yet all theyr sleightes will not preuaile But the Translator or Councellor or peruser one or moe or how many soeuer they were but all of them sottes if they thought by such their corruption to bolster vp the credite of theyr Widdowe Church-gouernours For it is euident in my iudgement that eyther most of their owne men doe beginne to come to Maister Trauerses opinion before mentioned or else that generally it is helde by them that the first ordaining of Widdowes was but for a time neuer meant to be an ordinary and perpetuall institution to continue for euer In Geneua as I saide there are no such Widdowes Scotlande in their approued Booke after the Geneua fashion doth not once thinke of them The Synodicall constitutions for the Presbyteriall platforme of all the French Churches doe make no mention of them The generall Councell of Hage and so all the Low Countries haue wholly forgotten them in their decrees and Canons In the platforme and newe Communion Booke which was offered once or twise to the high Courte of Parliament in Englande concerning these Widdowes there is nothing but silence Whereas also there hath beene great paines taken of later yeares amongest the Disciplinary brotherhoode and many meetinges and Synodes helde about another more particular draught of Discipline for this Realme till at the last they haue subscribed vnto it to bee a necessary platforme for all places and times yet you shall not finde that they haue spoken so much as one word of those Widdowes Whereuppon I conclude that their cause is desperate and so I leaue both them and their patrons with all their contrarieties vncertainties and wranglings about them and will come to the consideration of another materiall point vz. what charge this Consistoriall deuise doth bring with it to euerie parish CHAP. 20. Of the charge to bee imposed vpon euery parish by meanes of the pretended Eldership BY the common account of our disciplinarie deuises there are diuers ecclesiasticall persons to be maintained in euerie Parish Nowe there is but one in most places the Parson or the Vicar and God knoweth in manie parishes their intertainment is full bare But admit of the Consistoriall Senate in euery parish and then consider howe they shall bee charged First the current assertion is That in euerye Congregation there must bee a Pastor but the learned Discourser sayth there should bee two at the least Then they must haue a Doctor And for Elders they maie bee moe or fewer as the circuite of the Parish is
Pope to him-selfe But I will leaue these immodrate and forraine dotages specifie vnto you some of our domesticall I confesse to you saith the displayer of men in their colloures I reuerence D. Fulke and no disparagement vnto any I thinke him vniuersally as well learned as euer Caluin or Beza was And in an other place Put it to the censure of D. Fulke D. Whittakers Maister Cartwright c. Men I hope as well able to iudge as all the L. Bishops in christendome Againe No question but Caluin and Beza are wide sometimes Also afterwarde The verie ornaments of your vniuersitie indeede whose verie names and liues doe carry with them aestimation to bee reuerenced D. Fulke D. Goade D. Whittakars to these men I appeale And furthermore If wee should once or twise and vse it not set D. Fulkes learned iudgement against the bare authoritie of Caluin and Beza in this case I doe not see that it be any great preiudice or disparagement vnto any Diuerse other such like speeches there are in that booke whereby a man may see how the brethren are affected vnto their parte-takers Although he nameth some who will neuer thanke him for it and I supose hee hath done them great iniurie in making them to seeme the patrones of such fancies as there are mainetained I made mention before of Cartwrights place amongst certaine disciplinary worthies But my meaninge is not so to passe him ouer whom all the rest of our men doe soe admire His authoritie in deede is very great as being in effecte the Patriarche of them all Those thinges that he writeth are almost oracles Happye is the brother that canne come in his companie If hee bee in prison prayers are made for his deliueraunce if hee bee deliuered great thankes are publickely giuen vnto god for the same If hee commaund the rest obey if hee shall relent I thinke they will all relent When great matters are to bee handled he must needs be one in euery place Couentry Cambrdige London c. And vppon any new accidents the occurrents are caried to him as to their chiefest counsaylor Salute our most reuerent brother maister Cartwright for whome prayers are made with vs. As soone as I knowe of maister Cartwrightes deliuery I sent for maister Trauers and we had psalmes of thankesgiuing prayers to the same purpose and a sermon his text being the 20 of Ieremie 10.11.12.13.14 verses I percciue by those imperfect writinges of maister Cartwrightes and others that the pointes of reformation are at large and particularly debated Wee want bookes whereby wee may come to the knowledge of the truth I meane T. C. bookes The forme of gouernment set down by T. C. is commanded by god I thanke god I haue satisfied in part my longing with conference with M. Cartwright of whom I thinke as she did of Solomon I would gladly knowe when I might come from Oxford to London to see T.C. Maister Snape vpon one of his examinations before her Maiesties Commissioners in causes ecclesiastical findinge some matters to haue bene further disclosed then he looked for presently directed his letters thereof into the countrey mouing his frend that maister Cartwright might be aduertised It were good saith he you sent to T.C. with speed I would gladly heare whether T. C. did councell you or demaund councell of you I wish the matter maye bee well and closly handled For I heare some whispering allready yet among them that fauour the cause that he hath councelled the brethren rather to vse those corruptions then to leaue their charges I wish and hope it be not so not onely least men should iudge the man to be inconstant but especially for that these times be such that in them such yealding will doe no good Maister D. Bridges hauing occasion in his writinges to name Maister Cartwright did forget to carry this word M. vnder his girdle but called him plainly Cartwright Wherat see how maister Trauerse repineth Wee acknowledge and reuerence maister Cartwright as his rare guiftes of knowledge zeale his learned works constant suffering in this cause and at this time his continuall trauell in preaching the Gospell doe worthely deserue for which cause hee was worthy other respect then the replier here doth giue him If hee would needes set downe his name hee shoulde haue considered the example of the Apostle who yet seldome or neuer mentioneth any minister of the Gospell by name yea scarse anye professor without some good marke of the grace of god in them But this and a great deale more both hee and whosoeuer shall serue god as they ought in this cause of the further reformation of the Church must account to endure of them that oppose themselues to this most necessary seruice I had lately some speach with Maister Cartwright concerning our next meeting who aduised me to put you in mind of some thinges c. Hee saith that at your late being together at Wroxall you determined our nexte meetinge to bee at Warwicke at the quarter Sessions that twesday for the humbling of our selues and the day following to consult of other matters His request is that you will giue notice thereof vnto the brethren of our conference and also that by your meanes there may bee some of vs appointed to exercise in priuate that day If this his request connot conueniently bee performed then I take it necessary thot you write so with some speede to M. Cartwright that hee may prouide a remedie else where M. May and I ridde with M. Cartwright to M. Throgmortons two miles out of Warwicke where hee preached more he sayde then euer he did in his life before c. On tuesday M. Cartwright kept M. Fens lecture text psalme 122. 4. vnto the ende takinge thrones as Tremellius doth and vrginge the discipline the want wherof hee affirmed to bee the cause that some friendes forsooke our church and enemies as Papistes would not come neere her I pray you remember to reserue for mee one of the rare birds bookes his name may bee right Cartwright God bee praised though hee cannot speake vnto vs yet accordinge to his name hee doth write He is a worthy wight Sicut discipuli olim presto habuerunt ipsum Dominum ita magistrum Cartwrightum dominum meum habeo presentem as the disciples in times past had the Lord himselfe amongst them so I haue M. Cartwright my Lord in presence with me And thus hetherto of these poore simple but yet most palpable parasites The disciplinarie crue a company of Apostles and Cartwright their Christe Christe amongste his Apostles and Cartwright amongst his Disciples If Cartwright and such other guides were not supposed by their followers to bee very notable Thrasoes is it possible that any man of common sence would shewe themselues to bee such flattering Gnathoes And these are the menne for-sooth that in all their
name to all ministers of the vvord and sacraments vvithout distinguishing thereby any one of them from another or vvas it not euer vvithin the time limited taken and vsed only in the said distribution for one amongst the ministers of the vvord and sacraments that gouerned the rest both of the ministers and people vvithin their circuits limited vnto them This question with the rest was sent to maister doctor Raynolds in Oxford to the intent he might returne his opinion of them which he forbare at that time to do in respect of certain other businesse that he had in hand Howbeit maister doctor Robinson his especial most familiar friend being acquainted as it seemeth with the sayd questions hath written in this sort vpon another occasion not dissenting therein as I take it from maister doctor Reynolds I haue sayth he mainteined it in the pulpit that the titles of honour vvhich vve giue to bishops are no more repugnant to the vvord of God then it is for vs to bee called vvardens presidents prouosts of colleges And in my iudgement they may vvith as good conscience be gouernours of their diocesse as vve being ministers may be gouernours of colleges of ministers Neither do I thinke that this vvas a late deuised policie For I am persuaded that the angell of the church of Ephesus to vvhom S. Iohn vvriteth vvas one minister set ouer the rest For seeing there vvere many pastors there vvhy should S. Iohn vvrite to the angell of the church of Ephesus and not rather to the angels if there had bene no difference amongst them And if this presidencie had had that fault vvhich is reprooued in Diotrephes as S. Ierome proueth that the Ievves had not corrupted the originall text before Christ his comming Quod nunquam dominus Apostoli qui caetera crimina arguunt in Scribis Phariseis de hoc crimine quod erat maximum reticuissent So I may say neither vvould our sauiour vvho by his seruant reproueth those disorders vvhich he found in the seuen churches haue passed ouer this great fault in silence Therefore as Titus vvas left to reforme the churches throughout the vvbole Iland of Crete so I am persuaded that in other places some of that order of pastors and teachers vvhich is perpetuall in the church euen in the time of the Apostles had a prelacie amongst their bretheren and that this preheminencie is approoued by our sauiour And if vve come any lovver though the vvord Episcopus signifie that care vvhich is required of all in scripture be applied to all that haue charge of soules yet I do not remember any one ecclesiasticall vvriter that I haue read vvherein that vvord doth not import a greater dignitie then is common to all ministers Neither do I thinke that any old vvriter did vnder the name of Bishop meane the pastor of euery parish VVhen the emperors vvere persecutors vve read of seueral elders but neuer of more then one bishop at once in Rome the like is to be sayd of other great cities and the churches neere adioining And to meet vvith that offence vvhich is taken at the name of Archbishop because that name is so appropriated to Christ in scripture that it is no vvhere giuen to any other I take it that there is no substantiall difference betvveene archbishop and archbuilder Either therfore the Apostle offended in taking too svvelling a title vvhen hee called himselfe an archbuilder or cheefe builder or it must be graunted that this title may in some degree be giuen to men vvithout derogation to Christ. And thus farre doctor Robinson with whom if maister doctor Reinolds do agree I see not whither the factioners will turne them for as I take it they will not reiect his opinion They haue bragged much of him indeed and of his iudgement in sundrie of their writings as though he were wholy on their side and that they held nothing but he would iustifie it Howbeit they haue done him therin I doubt not exceeding great iniurie For requitall wherof I would wish him neuer to seeke any other reuenge but to turne them to his booke against Hart where hee hath written his mind as touching this point now in hand In the Church of Ephesus sayth he though it had sundrie elders and pastors he vseth these two words in one signification as by the sentence going before it is manifest to guide it yet amongst those sundrie vvas there one cheefe vvhom our sauiour calleth the angell of the church and vvriteth that to him vvhich by him the rest shâ—uld â—novv And this is he vvhom aftervvards in the primitiue church the Fathers called bishop For c. the name of Bishop common before to all elders and pastors of the church vvas then by the vsuall language of the Fathers appropriated to him vvho had the presidentship ouer elders Thus are certain elders reproued by Ciprian Bishop of Carthage for receiuing to the communion them vvho had fallen in time of persecution before the bishop had aduised of it vvith them and others Here then you haue two for Oxford touching the language of the ancient fathers when they speake of bishops Now you shal haue a Cambridge mans opinion no moe but of one I tell you at this time marry he shall be such a one as the brotherhood if they bee of the painters mind before mentioned in the chapter may well bee compared with the other two seeing his iudgement is layd in equall ballance there both with Caluins and Bezaes and that without any disparagement vnto them you know whom I mean it is maister doctor Fulke who in his confutation of the Rhemish notes vpon the new testameÌ„t writeth thus Amongst the clergie for order and seemly gouernment there was alwaies one principall to vvhoÌ„ by long vse of the church the name of Bishop or superintendent hath bene applied vvhich roome Titus exercised in Creta Timothie in Ephesus others in other places Therfore although in the scripture a bishop and an elder is of one order and authoritie in preaching the vvord and administration of the sacraments as Hierome doth often confesse yet in gouernmeÌ„t by ancient vse of speech hee is onely called a Bishop vvhich is in the scriptures called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ro. 12. 8. 1. Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13.17 that is cheefe in gouernment to vvhom the ordination or consecration by imposition of bands vvas alvvaies principally coÌ„mitted c. VVhich most ancient forme of gouernment vvhen Adrius vvould take avvay it vvas noted amongst his other errors Hitherto doctor Fulke so as hereby I trust it may appeare to maister Cartvvrights reproch and to all their shames that shall pretend any authoritie froÌ„ the ancient fathers to impugne the right honorable lawful calling of Bishops not parsons in euery parish but Bishops in their diocesse and prouinces appointed in the Apostlestimes for the right order and gouernment of
matter that much offended any for ought I find Marry the other deuise of making fiftie Frenchmen Citizens at a clappe did wonderfully trouble many It caused a present mutinie in the Citie and a great vprore the sparks whereof were neuer quenched as long as maister Caluin liued And thus you haue the birth and confirmation of the Consistoriall discipline with a deuise for the continuance of it collected for the most part out of such Epistles as Beza hath thought meete to publish for maister Caluins commendation If I should haue set them both downe as some others haue done who are no Papistes you should haue heard another manner of history But I like not to take thinges at the worst hand The trueth was it I sought for And I would not haue done that neither in this point but because certaine persons of the consistoriall humour doe daily vpon euery occasion still dash vs in the teeth with the orders of Geneua the discipline at Geneua and the Consistorie in Geneua as though that forme of discipline had come lately from heauen with an embassage from God that all the Churches in the worlde must frame and conforme themselues to the fashion of Geneua Which gaue me iust occasion in mine opinion to search as you haue heard into the secrets of that manner of Discipline to knowe indeede from whence it came whether it would who deuised it when and how it was planted at Geneua the first place that hatched and receaued it CHAP. III. By whose instigation and how the pretended Discipline of Geneua hath enlarged her iurisdiction IT was not long after that M. Caluin had obtained his desire as you haue heard in the former Chapter for the planting of the platforme of his pretended Discipline in Geneua when for the better backing of himselfe he procured maister Beza his especiall friend a man whom he knew to be of a very great courage wise learned and one wholly addicted to applaude to all manner of his procedinges to be likewise placed with him there And then being both together two such excellent men amongest a company of Artizans and Marchaunts what might they not compasse and bring to effect Frō the time that maister Caluin came first to Geneua 1536. and had gotten the allowance of his first draught of Discipline vz. 1537. hee grew daily more and more into liking with it especially after the fuller inlargement thereof 1541. when hee was restored againe to his place at Geneua But most of all when about the yeare 1554. hee hadde triumphed as it were the third time by the greater part of the voices of the ignorāt multitude and had also gotten maister Beza his applauder into his company then we may not maruaile if that his platforme so trauailed for seemed glorious vnto him In those daies when maister Caluin did first shew himselfe in his writinges against the Papists he was the onely man of especiall account of all the French nation Insomuch as all the rest of his countrey men that began more freely to professe the Gospell did principally in a manner depend vppon him especially after he had possession of his great authority in the Presbytery at Geneua For then by reason of the quiet estate of that Citty the free accesse and entertainement of such French-men as fledde thither for religion the want of sufficient men in other places of their owne countrey to giue aduise and Councell what was to be done in such distresses of the Church as then were vsuall and by reason of the fame ability learning and pollicy both of himselfe and of his assistant Maister Beza and likewise of their willingnesse or rather desire to intertaine all occasions of busying themselues the Citty of Geneua became in short time for their sakes to bee of great estimation in Fraunce He that shall read maister Caluins and maister Bezaes two bookes of Epistles and likewise the Commentaries of Fraunce with diuerse other discourses about those affaires and should withall giue any credit either to Heshusius Baldwinus Carpentarius or others mē learned all of them and some of them knowen Protestants would certainly maruaile to vnderstand into what actions and dealinges they thrust themselues of warre of peace of subiection how farre it extended of reformation without staying for the Magistrates of leagues of impositions and what not They writte their Letters to this state and that state to this Prince and that Duke to this king and that Emperour what their desire was should be done in such and such a matter Not like the persons either of Newington or Hitchin that I may vse Cartwrights examples of such Episcopall Seas as he alloweth of but rather like two Patriarches at the lest Generally for Church-matters they had ingrossed the whole managing of them into their handes And then you may easely gesse what fauour the pretended presbyteriall discipline was like to finde with them it being the onely pretence for all that their authoritie or whatsoeuer else they tooke vpon them to deale in And marke howe the oportunitie serued them The number of zealous professors in Fraunce daily increased who exempted themselues from the tyrannous commandementes of their Romish Bishops They had then no order or certain forme of Church gouernment how to proceede and behaue themselues in their religious assemblies And to haue framed it to any forraine platformes woulde haue stirred vp coales amongest them Nay it was not possible to haue been compassed Maister Caluin and Maister Beza sitting at their sterne So that it came no sooner in question what maner of ecclesiasticall regiment was meetest for those Churches but the forme of discipline vsed at Geneua was presently agreed vpon From which time you shall finde that the reformation of religion in Fraunce did wholly proceede after the rules of that kinde of discipline It was not sufficient to haue the exercise of religion but the Churches must vindicari in plenam libertatem be restored to her full libertie Synodes were held lawes were made and decrees were put in execution What orders then in request what ceremonies what manner of seruice what kinde of subiection what way to reforme religion but after the fashion of Geneua Which course of proceedinges together with the rules thereof diuerse well affected in religion did greatly mislike Maister Ramus had written a booke against it if Carpentarius say truely and I take him to be an authenticall authour because the late petitioner alledgeth him for the gouernement of his Elders tearming the fountaine thereof or the platforme of such a discipline Thalmud Sabaudicum the Sauoyan Thalmud and greatly reproouing the obtruding of it vppon the Churches of Fraunce Much more might heere be added and that out of their owne authentike writers of this disciplinarian canker how and by what meanes it spred it self in Fraunce and in some other Countries But I will passe that ouer and come to acquaint you how the same infection hath been transported from those coastes to
this side of the seas amongst vs. If Maister Caluin but especially maister Beza could haue been content to haue contained themselues within the limites either of Geneua or Fraunce to haue intermedled raigned there only and to haue vrged their platforme and deuise no further they might the better for vs in England haue been borne withall But nowe seeing they haue not so done who can be offended that I should make mention of it to the end that if they dealt amisse therein theyr examples and proceedinges might haue the estimation which indeed they deserue I omit how in K. Edwards time certaine malecontents grew vp in the Church of England because sundry matters might not bee ordered as they were at Geneua maister Caluin hauing written sundry letters into England to some suche like effect In Queene Maries time assoone as certaine of our Countreymen were come to Franckforde they were assaulted with the orders of Geneua Quarrels arising about the communion booke and forme of the seruice of England in Kinge Edwardes time there were particulars collected out of it by Knox Whittingham and such as had already tasted of that intoxication and sent to Geneua to bee censured by M. Caluin Who vpon the receit of them returned his answere concerning the sayde Booke compiled confirmed before by such men and such an authorititie as he ought to haue reuerenced In Anglicana Liturgia qualem describitis multas video fuisse tolerabiles ineptias I see that in the English forme of seruice as you describe it there were many tollerable foolleries When Knox and Whittingham had gotten this letter they published it to the Congregation Which being read it so wrought in the heartes of many sayth the discourser of the troubles at Franckford that they were not before so stoute to maintaine all the partes of the Booke of England as afterwardes they were bent against it If you haue Caluins Booke of Epistles I pray you reade it Although Beza thought it meete to be published in print yet shall you finde it to containe no one point of substance in it able to perswade a childe So as thereby you may iudge of their giddinesse who were moued so greatly with it When some of the sayd parties Whittingham diuerse others of a more violent humor came first to Franckford they fel also presently into a very especiall liking of the Geneua discipline as finding it to containe such rules and practices as did greatly concurre with their owne disposions In England poperie was restored and much crueltie vsed whereby they were constrained for the sauing of their liues to leaue their Countrye their liuings and theyr friendes In which case a man may easily gesse how acceptable these pointes were vnto some kinde of humors vz. that if Bishops and Princes refused to admit of the Gospell they might be vsed by their subiects as the Bishop of Geneua was vsed that is deposed and that euerie particular minister with his assistants according to the platforme of that discipline was himselfe a Bishop and had as great authoritie within his owne parish as any Bishop in the world might lawfully challenge euen to the excommunicating of the best aswell the Prince as the Pesaunt And indeede accordingly these positions as afterward it will appere were so pleasing to Whittingham and his consortes as it had beene a very meane forme of discipline I suppose that hauing such principles annexed vnto it wold at that time haue beene refused by them Howbeit many there were and that of the learnedest of those that then departed the Realme as Doct. Cox Doct. Horne M. Iewell with sundrie others who perceauing the trickes of that discipline did vtterly dislike it So as when they came afterwardes to Franckford they wholy insisted vppon the platforme of England and in short time obtayning of the Magistrates the vse thereof they did chose either D. Cox or D. Horne as I gesse or some such other as had beene of especiall account in K. Edwards time to be as it were their Superintendent For the bringing of which matter to passe one maister Clanbourge a chiefe magistrate in that Citie hauing shewed them some especiall fauour complaint was made thereof as it seemeth to M. Caluin Whereupon the sayde M. Clanbourg did write to him as it should appeare that he was induced to yeald to such a choyse the rather because the sayd Superintendent had some such like superior place in England before he came thither Vnto the which point maister Caluin that he might thrust his oare into euerye mans boat to disgrace the sayd platforme of England as much as lay in him and to incourage the factious company at Franckforde that were besotted with his pretended discipline did returne this answere If Beza hath set out his letter truely I would one point had beene omitted which was suggested vnto you I doubt not by that one partie I thinke he meaneth the sayd superintendent For otherwise it would neuer haue come into your cogitation as though he had still kept his whole estate in England to haue established his former ministerie there with you in a perpetuall possession of the authoritie therof Peraduenture there is nothinge that from the beginninge his meaninge is since the Englishemen came thither hath stired vp more contention or at the leaste displeasure so hath kindled strife then this emulation in that the greater part did thinke themselues to be thrust from their equall degree and to bee contumeliously excluded from the common societie if the Church which had receaued intertainment with you meaning the companie that had receiued his forme of discipline before the saide learned men came to Franckford should receaue their lawes from the other parte or side Within some short time after this that the sayd order of the English Church was established as you haue hard at Franckford diuerse of those men who had beene earnest for the Geneuian discipline deuided themselues from that Church as Whittingham Gilby Goodman and others and went to Geneua Where to the great discredit of the estate of the Church of England in Kinge Edwardes time to the greate griefe of such godly men and afterwardes worthy Martirs as remayned here in Queene Maries time in England and to the greate discouragement of sundry weake professors then also in England they reiected the whole forme of our English reformation the booke of common praier our seruice the order of our sacramentes and of all thinges els in effect there prescribed and conformed themselues altogether to the fashions of the Church at Geneua Where they had not beene longe when they had sucked and disgested the whole doctrine before mentioned to be as the appendants necessarily annexed to that forme of newe discipline and which was afterwardes enlarged by Beza as I take it Hotoman others of the disciplinarian humor in their bookes intituled De iure magistratuum c. Vindicia contra tirannos Franco-gallia c. The generall summe
raigne aboue his people About the same time Goodman Whittingham Gilby and some others returned from Geneua into England What violēt and seditious doctrine they brought home with them at the least they three that are mentioned I leaue to some other oportunity But for the Geneuian discipline all their desires were in that point insatiable They had seene how Caluin and Beza did raign at Geneua and thought scorne thereuppon to be subiect vnto any It seemed vnto them a notable matter If euery one of them might by and by haue obtained an absolute autority where they should haue beene placed Comming from Geneua they thought they should haue beene admired But finding themselues therein deceaued and that their Geneuian motions were little regarded it wrought in them a very great discontentment and made them so wilfull that nothing would please them which was not practised in Geneua So as thereby great contentions were presently stirred vp by thē Their first assault was made against the Communion Book with the orders ceremonies that are therein prescribed In the which quarrels perceiuing themselues in many respectes as I take it to be ouermatched what was their refuge but forsooth they must complaine to maister Beza Which complaint receaued he writte his Letter in their behalfe vnto Doctor Grindall 1566. then Bishop of London I wish a man would read the Epistles of Leo sometimes Bishop of Rome and conferre them with this of Bezaes to consider whether tooke more vppon him Leo where he might commaund or Beza where there was no reason he should at all haue intermedled But let him goe on He findeth faults with the manner of apparell appointed for our Ministers with the Crosse in Baptisme with kneeling at the holy Communion with all ceremonies that carrie with them any signification and withall the ancient Fathers applying himselfe altogether to strengthen and incourage his factious old acquaintance in their froward and peruerse obstinacie And because his course taken therein should not bee vnknowen with the same minde that he writte this letter now you see hee hath printed it The yeare after 1567. when the sayd malecontents perceiued that notwithstanding Bezaes letter there was no place giuen vnto their giddie fancies but that euery daye they were withstood more and more and that with such sufficient reasons as for mine owne part I thinke that all the Bezaes in Christendome will neuer be able sufficiently to confute they beganne to stagger and knew not what they should do They could finde no directions in the scriptures how they might behaue themselues and therfore they were constrayned to fly againe to Beza Obserue well I pray you what he himselfe writeth hereof Saepe multumque c. Being oft and greatly desired of my deerest beloued Brethren of the Churches of England that in their miserable state Consilium illis aliquod suggereremus in quo acquiescere ipsorum conscientiae possent I would giue them some councell whereupon their consciences might rest diuerse men houlding diuers opinions c. A long time I differred for diuers waighty reasons so to do and I professe that most willingly I would yet haue beene silent but that I thinke I should greatlye offende if I should still reiect their so many petitions and most pitifull mournings Wee in England may thinke wee haue had great iewels of these disturbers and that for all their pretences of great learning and grauitie they were indeed of a very shallow iudgement that could finde nothing to stay their consciences vppon but what should bee sent to them from M. Beza It was a fond part for them to write so vnto him and a very insolent parte for him to take so much vpon him but in that hee hath published so much to the world in print their childishnes his owne pride I may terme it but I want a word to expresse my conceit Hereby it should seeme that if Beza had taken such a course as might well haue beseemed him it lay greatly in his power to haue very much quieted all those present troubles But that minde was farre from him and yet it would haue tended a great deale more to his owne credit For he giueth his sayd deerest beloued Brethren very vnwise vnlearned and vngodly councell although euer since that time according to their promise they haue very grauely builded their consciences vpon it And it was this in effect that if they could not enioy their ministerie without giuing their consents to the manner of making of our Ministers by the Bishops without the voyces of such a Presbiterie as he and his Schollers do dreame of without giuing their consents to the vse of the Cap and Surplise and to the manner of excommunication in the Church of England c. They should then giue place manifestae violentiae to manifest violence and liue as priuate men Let any man that list read ouer that Epistle also and then iudge indifferently by what light aduise this peeuish opposition hath beene continued amongst vs. After some time spent in these brables then they bethought them to fall more directly in hand with the Geneuian Discipline To this purpose certaine persons assembled themselues priuately together in London as I haue beene enformed namely Gilbye Sampson Leuer Field Wilcox and I wot not who besides And then it was agreed-vpon as it seemeth that an admonition which the now L. Archbishop of Canterburie did afterwards confute should be compiled and offred vnto the Parliament approching Anno. 1572. Against which time it was also prouided that Beza should write his letterr to a great man in this Land for and in the behalfe of the chiefe contents therof vz. for the admitting in England of the sayd Allobrogicall Discipline Which office you may be sure he performed very willingly Vnderstanding sayth he of an assembly of the Estate of England wherein there would bee dealing with matters of Religion I could not chose but write vnto you of that matter And so he proceedeth shewing that all men doe allow of our doctrine but not of our Discipline That except where there is pure doctrine there be also pure discipline meaning his own Geneuian Darling the Churches are litle the better and that therefore her Maiestie and her faythfull Councellors should procure the setting vp of this pure Discipline notwithstanding any difficulties whatsoeuer that might hinder it The same yeare also 1572. hee writ to the Queenes Maiestie an Epistle dedicatory before his annotations vpon the new Testament In the which although he doth confesse that her Highnes hath restored to this Lande the true worship of God yet he insinuateth that wee want a full instauration of Ecclesiasticall Discipline that our Temples are not fully repurged that some high places remayne as yet not abolished and wisheth that those wantes and blemishes might be supplyed and reformed meaning as I thinke hee would confesse if he were deposed that her Maiestie should conforme the present Apostolicall and most
haue not wanted the common affections of men Much trouble there was before their saide deuise was receaued which made them afterwardes the fonder of it We haue a saying that the Crow thinketh her owne birde the fairest and so doe men and women for the most part their owne children Nature doth therein beare sway with the best But especially she sheweth her force most in the fruicts of a mans mind For as our mindes ought to be more deare vnto vs then our bodies so are the fruites of our minds of greater account with vs then the fruites of our bodies Few men that we heare of will giue their liues for their children but many wee see will do it most readily in the maintenance of their opinions Which thinges considered I cannot but in some sorte excuse maister Caluin and maister Beza in seeking all manner of waies all shewes all shiftes all aduauntages that possibly they could either finde or deuise whereby they might iustifie in some sorte the birth and bringing vp of their misconceaued offpring The chiefest ouersight was in my opinion that other learned and wise men doe not well obserue these manner of naturall and common affections in them but were carried after them as it were with a whirlewind to like as they liked to say as they said and to doe as they did If maister Caluin and maister Beza affirmed it why it was inough I haue heard it credibly reported that in a certaine Colledge in Cambridge when it happeneth that in there disputations the authority either of Saint Augustine or of Saint Ambrose or of Saint Ierome or of any other of the ancient Fathers nay the whole consent of them all alltogether is alledged it is reiected with very great disdaâ—ne as what tell you me of Saint Augustine Saint Ambrose or of the rest I regard them not a rush were they not men Whereas at other time when it happeneth that a man of an other humor doth aunswere if it fall out that he beinge pressed with the authority either of Caluin or Beza shall chance to deny it you shall see some beginne to smile in commiseration of such the poore mans simplicity some grow to be angry in regard of such presumption and some will depart away accounting such a kinde of fellowe not worthy the hearing Were not this a pretty and pleasaunt Interlude or Comedy to behold such Parasites playing their partes so Disciplinarian-like And all these follies and dependances that the people haue doted so much after some kinde of Ministers that the inferior sort of those ministers haue taken all for currant coine that hath beene paide them by their superiors and that they the superiors haue beene also so farre ouercaried with the credite of the saide two persons all these follies I say did proceed from this fountaine that neither the people nor their rash seducers did in time put the holy Apostles rule in practise vz. try all thinges and keepe that which is good But it is better late then neuer Since men of all sorts haue entered more carefully into the triall of all the saide pretences together with the very substaunce of that their pretended holy platforme the furious rage of that floud hath beene pretily well diuerted And the very chiefe Captains themselues being vrged of necessity a litle to fall on searching haue found that which I feare they are sorry for and are become as it seemeth like men greatly amased to be at their wits end And now to this purpose I will tell you a wonder If Cartwright and his adherents were to beginne the course againe that they haue runne I am perswaded they would neuer tread so much as one steppe in it But nowe they haue engaged their credits they must shift thinges of aswell as they can and where their wards serue them not beare-of the blowes that shall fall vppon them with their heads and shoulders In the yeare 1572. as you haue heard in the former Chapter the first admonition was offered to the Parliament as containing a perfect platforme of the worthy pretended Discipline to haue beene established within this Realme Within a yeare or two after Cartwright taking in haÌ„d the defence of that platform did alter it in some points especially where it seemed to ascribe too much vnto the people And then if it bee true which is reported that one desiring vppon a time conference with him about these manner of causes he answered what neede you to talke with me you may haue my Bookes they are Est and Amen I doubt not but he would haue sworne vppon conuenient occasion that the admonitioners platforme so qualified by him was a most perfect patterne for all Churches Howbeit within a while after it proued not so For about the yeare 1583. where before the platfourme of Geneua as it was lefte at large in Cartwrigts Bookes had beene followed now there was a particular draught made for England with a newe forme of common Praier therein prescribed The yeare ensuing 1584. the seuen and twentith of her Maiesty out starteth this Booke with great glory at the Parliament time and forthwith the present gouernment of the Church with all the orders lawes and ceremonies thereof was to be cut-off at one blow and this new booke or platforme must needes be established But it preuailed not Shortly after that Parliament the saide booke and platforme was found amongest themselues to haue some thing amisse in it And the correcting of it was referred to Trauerse Which worke by him performed came out againe about the yeare 1586. when there was an other Parliament in the nine and twentieth of her maiesties raigne But it was then as I suppose seuered from the saide book of Common praier and become an entire worke of it selfe And then also at the saide Parliament there wanted not diuerse solicitors for the admittance of it Afterwardes a new conference was had againe about this seconde corrected booke For still there were some things out of square in it In the yeare 1588. at an assembly in Couentry these doubts which were growen were as it seemeth debated and so were many other Cartwright himselfe being present But which of the saide doubts in their platfourme were then resolued I find it not This appeared that some of them remained which they were not able to resolue vpon For although they then concluded that the platforme it selfe was an essentiall forme of Discipline necessary for all times subscribed vnto the practise of the greatest part of it without any further expecting the magistrats pleasure yet in theyr subscriptions they excepted some fewe points which were reserued to be discussed by certaine brethren in an other assembly Where this assembly was kept I canuot certainely affirme But it appeareth vppon deposition that the next yeare after there was one held in Sainct Iohns Colledge in Cambridge Where Cartwright being againe present and many moe besides diuerse imperfections in the saide
But I will come to their first skippe which is in effect from the yeare aboue mentioned 1541. vnto the Apostles time backward For as I remember I haue read it in one of their bookes that in all the auncient fathers you shall finde a little but as it were of the ruines of it But the ruines of it in all the auncient fathers What lucke had they that the building of so gorgeous a peece of worke stoode not in their daies as now it standeth in Geneua that they might haue seene the bewtie and the glory of it If it were so ruinate before the times wherein the ancient fathers liued then surely it will followe in spite of whosoeuer saith nay that it is of greater antiquitie then all the fathers were of But I maruaile howe it grewe into such ruine before their times For to my vnderstanding the Apostles times were next before the time of the auncient fathers The learned discourser will help vs for this plunge out of the bryers The ecclesiasticall offices saith hee namely of Pastors Doctors Gouernours and Deacons were exercised in the primatiue and pure Church vntill the mysterie of iniquities working a way for Antichristes pride and presumption changed Gods ordinance c. And when was that The mistery of iniquitie began to worke in the Apostles dayes Was it then Peraduenture hee meaneth that immediatly after the Apostles times there was some age wherin there liued no ancient fathers and that then this mischiefe was wrought I would it had pleased him to haue deuised such a prouiso in the behalfe of those most notable men manie of them very godly and holy Martirs But the discourser was as it seemeth a plain man he will lay the fault where it was as indeed it is reason that euery man should beare his owne burden Heare him therefore againe Our fathers of olde time were not content with the simple order instituted by Christ and established by his Apostles but for better gouerning of the Church thought good some offices to adde thereunto some to take away some to alter and change and in effect to peruert and ouerthrow all christian and Ecclesiasticall pollicy which was builded vppon the foundation of the Prophetes and Apostles Iesus Christ being the chiefe corner stone A strange conceite that all the auncient fathers should thus conspire to thrust Christ out of his kingdome and to ouerthrowe all Christian pollicy What not a man amongest them as learned and as godly affected as either Caluin Beza or this discourser Not one in those ages that would stand to Christes Discipline A pittifull case But I promise you for my parte I rather doubt of the discoursers credite in this point then that I will thinke there should be such dishonesty in the auncient Fathers Nay I durst certainly sweare it that if there had beene any such gouernment of Christ in their daies they would haue beene as carefull for the continuance of it as any of the purest platformers in Christendome Trauers in his Booke of Ecclesiasticall Discipline maketh eight degres of the declination of this new pretended regiment to haue growne before the Councell of Nice procured as he saith cunningly by Sathan but yet so that as he addeth there are euidences to be shewed of sondry partes of it in the writinges of the auncient Fathers c and that also in this age it is exercised in Fraunce the low Countries and in Scotland All out of square from the Apostles times till Geneua was illuminated Some blinde euidences there may be found he saith for sundry parts of that Discipline whereby a man may conceaue that there was once such a thing in being Wel yet if that were true the auncient Fathers deserue some little commendation in that they were content to leaue some scroules or shiuers of it vnto their posterity To the same purpose also in another place the same party confesseth that the ordinary offices as he tearmeth them in the Apostles times haue beene nowe of many yeares out of vse either in part or altogether afore the last restoring of the Gospell in this age A great leap as I think from the Apostles time to this ourage If I had framed the scope of my second Chapter after this mans pleasure I might as you see haue safely set it downe with Trauerse consent that from the Apostles times till maister Caluin was fully placed in Geneua the now pretended order forme of Ecclesiasticall Discipline was not to haue beene found in all the world Maister Cartwright though he say in his first Booke that the Eldership did most florish in Constantines time and defendeth the same in the secōd part of his 2. reply sauing that he leaueth out the word most with such shifting and falshood as I durst make any learned mā iudge of his dealing therein yet I say in his Table to the first part of his second reply and also in the second part therof he acknowledgeth in effect to my vnderstanding that of the Elderships declining there are to be found in the Fathers but certaine traces and marks whereby we might come to the knowledge of it and vnderstand that certaine Churches as at Alexandria went out of the way As if he should haue sayd looke how a man seeketh for a Hare in the snow and seldome findeth her till he come to her forme so you must seeke for the Eldership as now it is vrged in the auncient Fathers still pricking after it till hauing runne past all them you come to the forme of it in the Apostles times Or as if he had said the best vse that a man can haue eyther of the auncient fathers or of the Ecclesiasticall writers is this concerning the Geneuian Discipline that a man by them may learne when men goe out of their right way but how to get in againe when we are once out if you wil haue any direction for that point you must either goe to Geneua or to him or to some of his fellows There goeth the Hare away for the Fathers cannot helpe you But belieue me such is my dulnes as I doe not wel discerne how these words of Cartwrights will stand well together with those of the Elderships flourishing in Constantines time seeing now in the auncient Fathers we haue so little of it vz. onely as it were some few markes traces or footesteps of a thing which had beene and was gone before their times For as concerning the state of the Church in Constantines time there are whole Cart-loads of most pregnant euidences in the auncient Fathers of it yet but traces as he saith or empty steps in them for his Eldership In effect as if he had saide the Geneua Discipline flourished most when it was not One that hath sent vs a printed Book out of Scotland taking vppon him to know belike the mindes of all the Scottishe Ministers that seeke for the pretended Discipline as concerning the time how
long they account it since it was in any good reparation saith plainely not as Cartwright affirmeth that it flourished most in Constantines time but thus we must needs confesse in deede that this gouernement of the Church fell to decaye long before the Councell of Nice But yet one step further after maister Cartwrights dubling where speaking in his second booke of the corruption as he tearmeth it that one Bishop had a preheminēce giuen him aboue other ministers which he cannot deny to haue been an ordinance in Alexandria from Saint Marks time c. he saith from the first day wherein this deuise was established corruption grew in the Church c. And the first resistance by any setled Church against that corruption was by those that abolished that deuise of man and receaued the order in the Apostles times touchinge the equality of Ministers as the Bohemians Merindols the Churches in Germany and Geneua See what carieers are here From Geneua to the Apostles times and thence backe againe to Geneua at a leape From Saint Markes time till the time here limited the pretended Presbitery with all the complements thereof as nowe it is vrged hath lyen alla-mort No one setled Church that is in Cartwrightes language no one particular parish in all the world for a 1500. yeares did euer account it vnlawfull for a Bishop to haue authority aboue other Ministers Or thus there hath not bin vpō the face of the earth within the space of a thou sand fiue hundred yeares so much as in any one parish such an equality amongest the Ministers of the worde of God as is now pretended to be in the Presbitery at Geneua and so consequently in all that tyme not suche a Presbitery Or thus within the compasse of the Heauens there hath not beene one Church for aboue 1500 yeares that euer dealt so with Bishops as of late they haue beene dealt withall especially in Geneua and in some other such places as haue followed therein the example of that Citty Well hitherto then you see that since we came from Geneua vz the yeare 1541. the men themselues that talke so much of their Geneua platforme cannot finde it flourishing in the daies of all the auncient fathers nor in all the world for the space of aboue 1500. yeares The fathers alas some of them were but simple men some were ambitious and some were ignoraunt They poore men had small experience and lesse pollicie They wanted iudgement and zeale either to discerne or to keepe in her virginitie this gallaunt Dalila They chopped and chaunged the institution of Christ at their pleasure Any examples that shall be fet from them are very dangerous They were but men But if you will leape ouer all them and come to Geneua there you shall finde wise men learned men humble men zealous men nay rather Angelles then men there you shall see the glorious rankes of Elders sitting vppon their thrones the worshipfull company of Deacons attending vpon the contributions the well Disciplined multitude bringing in the price of their lands and goods and powring all downe at the Deacons feete there Christ carrieth hys owne scepter in Bezaes hand there this pretended holy Discipline so disgraced by the fathers so corrupted and so defaced there she raigneth there shee flourisheth and there she is magnified The Church of Geneua saith a good fellow is the purest reformed Church forsooth in Christendome Againe Geneua is the chiefest place of true comfort in Earth Now what is here said of Geneua and her Ministers except you extend it to all other Churches and Ministers that follow the Geneua platforme they will be angry with you and thinke themselues as I suppose to be very greatly disgraced But I will leaue them clawing one of another and come to the Apostles times to see if the Geneua Church-gouernment may be found out amongest them For either there or no where The Apostle Saint Iohn liued much longer then any of the rest of the Apostles did Saint Ierome saith that he liued after Christes passion threescore eight yeares So as the Apostles times after the largest accompt are not further to be extended Now as Baronius collecteth out of Eusebius Saint Marke was Bishop of Alexandria about 19. yeares and died about the thirtith yeare after Christes ascention So as Saint Iohn out-liued Saint Marke some 38. yeares After this reckoning if the Church of Alexandria should haue departed from Christes institution and so cleane haue disgraced the glory of this fained Eldership when there was a Bishop made there according to Cartwrightes assertion then before wee can finde the Geneua platforme in such perfection as it is in that Citie we must cut of the said 19. yeares wherein Saint Marke had departed so grossely from Christes ordinance from the before mentioned 68. yeares the full extent of the apostles time which being done you haue but eleuen yeares wherein there is any hope for the pretended puritie and practise of the Geneua Discipline to shadow or shrowd her selfe Yea but where Saint Ierome saith that there were Bishops in Alexandria from Saint Markes time c. Cartwright hath this shift vz that the wordes from Saint Marks time may be taken exclusiuely to shut out Saint Marke Whereby to saue Saint Markes credite that an Euangelist should not be thought to haue broken the necke of Christes gouernement he woulde haue this great defection to haue been presently after Saint Markes time and so hee excludeth Saint Marke after the Geneua fashion quite and cleane out of his Bishopricke and will needes suppose that hee was neuer Bishop contrary to Saint Ieromes expresse wordes in sondrie places and contrarie to the full consent and agreement of all the auncient fathers and of all the ecclesiasticall histories But be it as hee would haue it yet let the reckoning be newly cast vp againe and it falleth out that this supposed departing from Christes institution was about thirtie and eight yeares before S. Iohn died Which standeth hardly with the reputation of the Apostles times in my opinion But that is no great matter We know saith the authour of the foresaide booke that was sent vs from Scotland Diotrephes to haue been in the Church euen in the Apostles times and we are assured he could neuer be gotten out of it since the first houre that he set his footing therein And therefore we cannot greatly maruaile though euen in their time there had been a diuerse gouernment from this of the Lordes appointment which we labour for For euen in the Apostles times the mistery of iniquitte beganne to worke And what will they say of Saint Iohn the Apostle and of all the rest of them that out-liued Saint Marke as they haue done of all the auncient fathers was there so small intelligence amongst those most prouident and wise holy men that there could be so notorious a defection in Alexandria so famous a Citie and they neuer to heare of it Or
shall we thinke that they heard of it and conspired together to ouerthrow Christes institution It may be said that peraduenture they heard of it and reproued it but could not reforme it Very well But where be then their admonitions petitions supplications and libels against it Where be their suspensions excommunications and giuings ouer to Sathan Not a word of that abuse in Saint Iohns Gospell written after the supposed defection but especially could he haue pretermitted such a high point in the booke of his Reuelations Or had he so many Reuelations of other matters of lesse importance forsooth and was such an ouerthrowe of Christes kingdome kept from him The Disciplinarian shiftes in this case to make the best of them can be but slaunderous and desperate But to graunt to all of them the acceptation of the Apostles times after the largest accompt there is surely nothing lesse to be found in those times then the Geneua platforme For then as particular congregations professed the Gospell you should haue found a Priest or minister of the worde and Sacramentes placed in them In Citties where there were diuerse such congregations or wherevnto sondry congregations of the country did appertaine then you shoulde haue found some Timothy a Bishop to gouerne them After that diuerse Citties had receaued the Gospell or some whole Countrey it was not long but some Titus was placed as Archbishop ouer them The twelue Apostles were in those times as twelue Patriarchs for all the world who planted directed visited commaunded and appointed the foresaid Church gouernours and what else they thought meet for the benefit of the church If I were presently to leaue this life and should speak what I thought of the present forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement at this time in the Church of England I would take it vppon my soule so farre as my iudgement serueth me that it is much more Apostolicall then any other forme of gouernment that I know in any other reformed Churche in the world As for these men that talke so much of the Apostles times they are indeede but brablers Their deuised regiment hath not any resemblaunce at all of that which was in the Apostles times They haue peruerted in deede the true meaning of certaine places both in the scriptures and in the auncient fathers for a shew to serue their turnes as after it shall appeare and other proofes from those times they haue not any But you will say this is denied It is so and of that else-where Howbeit in the meane while that cannot hinder my purpose to search out the pretended antiquity of it For it is confessed by them that the Apostles practised no other form of Ecclesiasticall gouernment in their times then Christ himselfe in his time did ordaine and assigne vnto them to be practised afterwards And what forme was that Forsooth they say it was the very same forme of Church regiment that was amongest the Iewes and that Christ when he said Dic Ecclesiae tell the Church did translate the same being called Sanedrim Councell or Senate into the Church to be the onely lawfull gouernment thereof vnto the end of the world So as here then we must fetch another friske about to search for the antiquity of the Iewish Senate Maister Caluin after hee had deuised the Geneua platforme and leapt ouer more then a thousand and fiue hundred yeares for the strengthning of it by those wordes of Christ tell the Church vppon occasion he further saith that as farre as his auncient records will serue him the foresaide Iewish Sanedrim was deuised by the Iewes after theyr returne out of captiuity which was vppon the pointe of fiue hundred yeares before Christ Scimus c. wee knowe that from the time that the Iewes returned out of the captiuitye of Babilon the censure of manners and of doctrine was committed to a chosen Counsell which they called Sanedrim in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hoc legitimum fuit Deoque probatum regimen c. This was a lawfull regiment and allowed of God And againe to cutte of all childishe cauilles how to shift this place as that Caluin saith not that it was then first instituted the sam e Caluin speaketh hereof more plainely where intreating of the seuenty Elders Numbers 2. that were chosen to assist Moyses he hath these wordes Certum quidem est c. it is very certaine that when the Iewes were returned from the captiuity of Babylon because it was not lawfull for them to create a king they did imitate this example in erecting of their Sanedrim Here is then the time as plainely set down again as needeth vz. after the Captiuity the cause why they ordained it vz. because they might haue no King and the patterne they did imitate vz. Moyses choosing of seuenty Elders to assist him in his gouernment But all this will not yet serue the turne For besides many other exceptions which are taken to Maister Caluins extraction of the Iewes Sanedrim out of Christs wordes tell the Church this is one that if they will needes inforce such a gouernment vppon the Church as was amongst the Iewes then they meane belike to wrest from the Prince the ciuile sword and to deale themselues in ciuile causes by their owne authority which they haue so much condemned in others though they meddle not otherwise with them then by the Princes appointment for that the Iewes-sayd gouernment or Sanedrim had to doe as well in ciuile causes as in any other that were Ecclesiastical Their aunswere to this exception is that in deede the gouernement they speake-of had to deale in Christs time with ciuile causes de facto but not de iure and that the Priests Iudaicis rebus confusis through their pride and ambition had crastily and corruptly procured such vnlawfull authority vnto themselues to the defacing and hinderaunce of the Lordes institution by Moyses at the first See how they carry vs from post to piller Maister Caluin is no body with Beza Now we must yet further backeward vz. from the restitution of the Iewes out of Babilon to Moyses his time almost a thousand and fiue hundred yeares Surely maister Caluin should haue been as well acquainted with Moyses doings as Beza is for that he hath written Commentaries vppon all his fiue Bookes which Beza hath not If Caluin in sifting the Text so painefully as he hath done cold finde no such matter in Moyses as Beza pretendeth it doth greatly preiudice in my opinion his lighter conceite But heare his wordes We must omnia reuocare ad institutionem Domini per Mosem loquentis vt quid iure factum sit intelligamus Call euery thing to the institution of the Lorde speaking by Moyses if we will haue a true vnderstanding of this gouernement and of the right authority thereof Very well Here then wee must haue a newe issue We must set vp as I said the Church-gouernement which the Apostles practised the Apostles practised
the gouernement that Christ appointed Christ appointed the Iewes Sanedrim to be in euery parish the Iewes Sanedrim was corrupted and therefore we are now sent from Geneua to Moses to vnderstand what he wil say vnto vs of this matter Was there euer any forme of gouernement that hath had so euill fortune A gouernement so long since ordayned not to continue for the time of the law onely but euen vnto the worldes end and neuer to be in such vse as it ought to haue been except it were for some eleuen or some 38. yeares and not that neyther vntill this our age that Geneua hath refined it Miranda canunt sed non credenda poëtae They tell vs wonders But because wee must be carried so farre let vs see indeede the institution of it I trust that point will be made most manifest vnto vs. Therefore I would desire to know where the Lord did institute this their ecclesiasticall Senate The effect of Bezaes aunswere if I haue iudgement to gather it is this Iehosophat appointed such a kinde of Senate in his time Mosis proculdubio praescriptum sequutus following proculdubio without doubt the prescript of Moses And where learned Iehosophat that prescript Had he it out of Moses written bookes or by tradition what must the beginning of this so singular a regiment proceed from a tradition But it may be saide that although it cannot bee shewed in Moses where or when it was instituted yet you shall finde in the tenth of Leutticus the iurisdiction of it plainly set forth which argueth manifestly that there was such a regiment before that time instituted by Moses It is well said Let vs then see the place The wordes are these And the Lord spake to Moses saying thou shalt not drinke wine nor strong drinke thou nor thy sonnes with thee when yee come into the tabernacle of the congregatiō c that ye may put difference betweene the holy and the vnholy and betweene the cleane and the vncleane and that ye may teach the children of Israell all the statutes which the Lord hath commaunded them by the hand of Moses Here saith maister Beza Synedrij ecclesiastici iurisdictio manifestissimis verbis a ciuili distinguitur the iurisdiction of the ecclesiastical Senate is most plainly distinguished from the ciuile And againe Dico his paucis verbis declarari quaecunque tunc erant verè 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nempe inter sanctum prophanum inter mundum immundum discernere legem domini docere ac proinde iudicare de controuersijs ob eas causas exortis I doe affirme it that in these fewe wordes are set downe what causes soeuer were in those daies rightly accompted spirituall that is to say to discerne betweene the holy and vnholy the cleane and the vncleane and to teach the law of the Lord. Of this exposition in another place We are yet dealing with the pedigree of this gouernment Heereunto therefore this is obiected Let this interpretation go a while as currant yet heere is no mention of any other to exercise this iurisdiction but onely of Aaron and his two sonnes Where are then their gouerning Elders What is become of them How chaunceth it that they are not mentioned To this maister Beza writing of his ecclesiasticall regiment sayth Erant Leuitae in Synagogis penes quos adhibitis vt probabile est aliquibus illustribus ciuibus erat spiritualis administratio There were Leuites in euery Synagogue who hauing ioyned in commission with them certaine chiefe Citizens as it is probable had the administration of all spirituall causes And least you should thinke that maister Beza his probabile est were no good warrant to build so great a matter vppon you shall heare what accompt it carrieth in Geneua There came out from thence not long agone a booke translated since into English and printed in Scotland tearmed so interpreted Propositions and Principles of Diuinitie Amongest the which principles in my latine booke these are three vz It appeareth in Moses booke that as Moses with his 70. did exercise his ciuile iurisdiction so Aaron with his assistants priestes and Leuites had chiefe authoritie in the ecclesiasticall 2. And furthermore there were amongest the Iews certain men whom they called capita patrum the heads of the fathers c. quos verisimile est fuisse etiā Synedrij ecclesiastici partes c. who were parts it is likely of the ecclesiastical Councell 3. Constat ergo in ecclesia Iudaica fuisse huic ordini ecclesiastico cōstitutos rectores It is manifest therfore that in the churches of the Iewes these men were assigned and ioyned to the said Priestes and Leuites to be rulers and gouernors Verisimile est it is likely constat ergo therefore it is manifest As though a man should reason thus It is probable that these men that dare thus abuse the worlde haue made a shipwracke of their consciences therefore it is manifest that they haue done so Vnto how many kinges princes Countries and states hath maister Beza written for the aduauncement of this his pretended gouernement What petitions supplications demonstrations motions admonitions discourses complaints and I know not what haue been published amongest vs in England to the same effect And is all now come to this point probabile est Can Beza himselfe finde no other ground for his Elders Doth it depend but vpon likelihoodes and probabilities by your owne confessions whether almightie God did euer as yet institute any such gouernment or not But to passe by Beza with his probabile est and to come to maister Cartwright another manner of fellow He it seemeth doth account maister Beza to be but a simple man in respect of himselfe in that he deemed the Eldership to be of no longer continuance then since Moyses time This gouernement saith he by the Eldership was taken from the gouernement of the people of God before the Lawe And it beganne as soone as there is any mention made of anye fixed forme of a Church which standing of diuerse housholdes were deuided into particular assemblies Beza is then you see deceaued who said that Moyses did institute the Eldership It was long you heare before his time Did I not tell you we should be brought in effect to Noahs Arke But let vs consider of his proofe that maketh him so peremptory in this point You shall not finde him so loose I trust as to dash vs in the teeth with probabile est Ineuitable demonstrations or nothing from him Forsooth saith he it is thus written in Exodus 4. So Moises and Aaron went and gathered all the Elders of the children of Israell and Aaron tolde all the wordes which the Lord had spoken to Moyses c. And what then Indeede that would be heard for as yet this point runneth harshly But saith Cartwright that these were Ecclesiasticall officers thereby it may appeare for that vnder such a tiraunt and such
conceaue of it they shew themselues in theyr colours and doe call it plainely a Senate neither respecting the wisedom which themselues doe ascribe vnto the Apostles nor the foresayd example of the purer West Churches And indeede although at Geneua the name of the Consistory be most in vse yet I gesse that Beza would gladly bring it to be chaunged and called a Senate And I doe partly so thinke because in his printed Booke of excommunication he hath left out the reason why the Apostles called it not Senate but Eldership which reason is in his written Booke that Erastus confuted Besides also oftentimes in his notes vppon the new Testament hee tearmeth the forme of that gouernmēt by the name of Ecclesiasticall Senate And namely where they dreame it was commaunded by Christ in these wordes Dic Ecclesiae tell the Church Constat hic agi de Ecclesiastico Senatu it is manifest saith he that here Christ speaketh of the Ecclesiasticall Senate In another place also he saith tell the Church that is the Eldership and here in effect tell the Ecclesiasticall Senate So that to my vnderstanding he confoundeth Eldership and Senate making them both one Which peraduenture will bring himselfe within the compasse of his own words against Castalion To translate Presbyterium Eldership Senatum a Senate doth argue a greate vanitye of witte and is indeede a prophane innouation But to let that passe by hooke or crooke it must be a Senate which tickleth and pleaseth some of our reformers insomuch as in their Latine discourses of Discipline there is little but Ecclesiasticall Senate and Senatours Christus pro more Iudaeorum Ecclesiam Ecclesiasticum Senatum appellauit Christ after the custome of the Iewes called the Ecclesiasticall Senate the Church Againe Ecclesiasticall Senate is an assembly of Elders c. And againe Cum hic Senatus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Paulo appellatur Presbyteros esse hos Senatores necesse est Seeing this Senate is called by Paul an Eldership it followeth of necessity that the Elders must be Senatoures I omitte some old English names which haue beene giuen to this Minion as Congregation Assembly Segniory c. and some Latine names also as the Epitome of the Church and Diaconia Presbyterorū the Deaconship of Elders because they are now growen as it seemeth to bee too base Rather let vs call it with Iunius if I conceaue his meaning materfamilias the huswife of the Churche in Christes absence or with Maister Beza Tribunal Christi the Tribunall seate of Christ. But yet for all these wordes I greatly doubt it that such honourable titles will not long be continued For if Maister Beza his interpretation of Christes speaches Dic Ecclesiae doth proue to be authenticall then they must be enforced in my opinion to call their gouernement by a name of no great estimation amongest those that professe Christ. For let the place be considered and hee maketh Christ in effect to say Tell the Church that is tell the Senat Archisynagogorum of the Archrulers of the Synagogue who had the power and iurisdiction that is there spoken of in their handes By which exposition if Christ had beene pleased to haue spoken properly without vsing of any figure when he saide Tell the Church he should haue said Tell the Synagogue and the word Church in that place must needes be so expounded Whereby it followeth that if Christes authority by Bezaes exposition may be regarded they ought by theyrowne collections and interpretations to call their seuerall Senates so many Synagogues Besides Maister Beza saith that Synedrium and Synagogue were both one in Christes iudgement and there is nothing more reasonable in theyr writings then to call theyr Senats Synedria which sheweth that at the least they may aswell by Christs testimony call them Synagogues if they list I would not haue troubled you with this tedious discourse of the seuerall names of this pretended regiment but that you might vnderstand how their tongues are deuided about such a trifle and thereby also perceaue the infancy or new birth of this fancy of theirs in that as yet they are not agreede howe to name the Childe If it fall out that it get the name of Senate what an honourable stile will this be Senatus populusque Romanus the Senate and people of Sainct Giles in the Fieldes and so of all other parishes in England CHAP. VII Of their vncertainty concerning the places where this pretended regiment should be erected MAister Cartwright and all his English followers that I haue read doe affirme it moste confidently that by the commaundement of God by the institution of Christ by the rules of Gods word and by the practise commandement of the Apostles There ought of necessitie to be an Eldership in euery parish in euery Congregation Church by Church in euery particular Congregation and not only in Cities but in all Churches in the Countrye and vplandish townes wheresoeuer there is a Pastor without the which Eldership euery such church or Congregation is to be accounted maymed vnperfect no entyre body 10 want the exercise of the principall offices of charity to be destitute of no small part of the Gospell of true Religion of Christs gouernment of the piller of truth and of all those priueledges profits which are assigned by them vnto the enioying of it Hereunto is fit to be added what they haue further written concerning this worde Church and howe they describe their said Parish The Church sayth Cartwright is eyther taken in the Scriptures for the whole body of the Catholique church or for one particular congregation or for the faythfull company of one house This one particular Congregation when it hath an Eldership placed in it they terme it the body of one particular Church and a perfect and vnmaymed body of Christ wherein the ministers of the word and the Elders are the eyes and the Deacons the handes without the which members though it may liue a while they confesse yet saie they it so pineth and wanteth that in the ende it will become a deade corpes vppon the grounde And for the quantitie of this body the dimensions of it or the description of such a particular Congregation or Parish as they speake of thus M. Cartwright squareth it out Euerye competent congregation and particular bodye of a church should haue hir parts in neighbourhood of dwellings wel trussed one with another Againe a Parish well bounded is nothing else but a number of those families which dwelling neere together may haue a commodious resorte and be at once taught with one mouth With these points of our English Eldership I meruell how their associates in other Countries will bee satisfied By the Discipline in Fraunce concluded vppon by fiue generall Synodes of the reformed Churches of that Realme It was agreed vpon that request should be made to the
of Bishops and so we may call them From whom Trauerse if he be the author of the defence of ecclesiasticall gouernment of the booke of ecclesiasticall discipline first dissenteth then secondly also frō himselfe For in his said defence hee is most peremptorie and bringeth diuerse reasons for it vz. That ruling Elders are not comprehended vnder the name of Bishop yet in his other booke he saith generally of all their Elders both Ministers and Rulers They are said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to gouern rule ouersee Now if their dutie set downe in the scriptures be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their office is surely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must needes comprehend them aswell as the Ministers of the word But that I may omit their thwarting thus the streame runneth from Cartwright and Iunius fountaines The titles of Christs vicars and of good prelates do both agree saith Cartwright vnto the Elders which onely gouerne And Iunius thus in effect The scriptures do call both Ministers Elders indifferently sometimes Prophets as The spirites of the Prophets are subiect to the Prophets sometimes Episcopos id est inspectore◠Bishops that is ouer-seers as Take heed to your selues and to all the flocke whereof the holy Ghost hath made you ouer-feers to feed the Church of God c. sometimes rulers or laborers rulers as We beseech you brethren that you know them which labour among you and are ouer you in the Lord sometimes ductores seu duces leaders or captaines as Obey them that haue the ouer-sight of you and submit your selues for they watch for your soules as they that must giue account c. sometimes pastors as He therefore gaue some to be Apostles some Prophets and some Euangelists some Pastors and teachers sometime Elders as When they had ordained them Elders in euery Cittie c. sometimes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ministers as Where Paul saith thus of himselfe that I should bee a Minister of Iesus Christ toward the Gentiles ministring the Gospel of God c sometime 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ministers as I am Paule whom thou persecutest but arise and stand vpon thy feete for I haue appeared vnto thee for this purpose to appoint thee a Minister and a witnesse both of the things which thou hast seene and of the things in the which I wil appeare vnto thee sometime deacons that is Ministers as Who is Paule Who is Apollo But the Ministers by whome yee beleeued c. And againe the same Iunius in the booke before noted of both their kinds of Elders Sunt salterrae sunt lux mundi in sua ecclesia singuli They are the salte of the earth they are the light of the worlde euery one of them in their seuerall Churches If Augustine Ambrose Ierome Chrisostome and all the rest of the ancient Fathers were now aliue and should vnderstand to what purpose these scriptures were thus alledged would they not wonder that euer any men should lyue that durst with such boldnes and so little shew of truth so abuse the word of God themselues their readers and all the world Nay I am perswaded that if M. Caluin himself that first deuised these officers were now aliue he wold be greatly ashamed of this corruption so notorious an abuse But God hath dealt with them already according to his wonted custome in such a case For they are wonderfully diuided and doe confound themselues in their expositions of the seuerall places as when I come vnto that point it shall in some sort appeare But of all these confused number of names for their Elders if I were asked vpon which I gessed they would in time most properly insist I feare it wil proue to be that of Arch-synagogians or of Arch-rulers of their saide gouernment deduced as they confesse from the synagoge For saith the Counter-poison God hath ordained for the rulers of the synagogue Churchrulers or Elders Likewise Cartwright The chiefe of the synagogue are the same which wee call Elders ancients of the church And Beza also Archisynagogi dicuntur qui particularium ecclesiarum negotia administrabant propterea censētur ecclesiae nomine Mat. 18.17 They are called Arch-rulers of the synagogue who did manage the affaires of particular churches are therefore in Math. 18. tearmed by the name of the church But the said Cartwright passeth Their Synagogues saith he being the same that our churches in euery one of them beeing not one but many princes the vrging of that example bringeth diuers chiefe gouernors or Archbishops intocuerie particular church His meaning is as I take it that if they be vrged too farre so constrained to speake their consciences which peraduenture as yet they would bee loth to do they must thē of necessitie deale plainly with vs tell vs roundly that all the Elders which they looke for esteeme them as wee list that haue no such diuine insight into them they are indeed and must be our chiefe gouernors our Archbishops and our Princes Surely such artizans meane persons as should occupie these roomes in most parishes if they had their platforme might well haue been contented with his former titles giuen vnto them of Christs vicars Gods prelats though they had wanted these But it would be remembred that if such as are vnder the Ministers bee of this great honor what are we to think of the Ministers themselues that are so far aboue them I had forgotten to tell you how Cartwright affirmeth though falsly that the word priesthood is sometime taken in the ecclesiasticall writers for this kinde of Elders Whereby I coniecture that their graund pastors especially in such cities as haue many parishes vnder one consistorie must be if not summi sacerdotes the high priests yet at the least principes sacerdotum the princes of Elders or rather reges regum kings of kings But by what titles they will maintaine their owne greate preheminence aboue their Elders I do not greatly regard it This is strange that after so many disputations and libels against the names of our Archbishops to prooue them Antichristian or vnlawfull wee hauing but two of them in all England they would now if they might be suffred impose vpon vs seuen or eight Archbishops in euery parish What a wringing wresting is there of this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by Beza Cartwright and others as being for the imperiousnes of it vnmeet to agree with the Ministers of the Gospell And yet now their new deuised Elders worthy men for the most part I warrāt you may euery one of them lawfully be called an Archbishop I would gladly know for my learning why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ioined to this worde Bishop should be rather an vnlawfull name for some Minister than whē it is ioined to all their own Synagogians
to their consultations what course they were best to take for their owne credits proceed to the qualities wherewithall they affirme that their Elders by the worde of god must needes be indued Chap. XV. Their vncertaintie where to find the particular offices of theyr Aldermen FOr my better enterance into this poynt followinge I will beginne with some of their owne groundes Thea gouernment of the church saith Martin must be by these officers and offices alone and by no other which the Lord hath set downe and limited in his word And the demonstrator Corah Datha◠and Abiram were punished hauinge no warrant of that they tooke in hand A very good caueat for their Elders Let vs then see what those particular duties are which they ascribe vnto them But here you must vnderstand that euery parish is to be deuided into seuerall Tribes according to the number of their Elders euery Elder hauing one of them assigned vnto his charge And their office is if any thinge be done amisse priuatly within their compasses to reproue or correct the offenders priuatly but if the offender be obstinate or the offence publick they must bring them to the Eldership Secondly they must know euery house and particular person in the parish that they may enforme the ministers of their estate If any straūger come to dwell within their seuerall tribes they must signifie the same vnto the pastor that hee may examine his religion Thirdly if any infants are to be baptised they must likewise giue the pastor notice therof Fourthly at the time of the communiō they must all ioyntly see that no excommunicate persons come into the church likewise helpe and assist the pastor at Geneua the Elder ministreth the cuppe take heede that none come to the Lords table whose religion and honesty should not be knowen vnto them and with whom the pastor and Doctor should not haue dealt before In general tearmes their whole duety is to helpe to informe and to aide the pastors and Doctors to haue a vigilant eye to the obseruation of all such ceremonies lawes and orders as they themselues with their fellow Senators should constitute and ordaine Now surely it were a goodly fight I haue occasion often to repeate it to see the noblemen and gentlemen of England discharginge all these duties in their owne persons and especially ministringe the cuppe at the holy communion In what reputation shoulde the ministers be that shoulde haue such eyes such aiders such informers What would the people thinke you say when they should see these noble men and gentlemen come to the Pastors with their caps in their hands seuerally saying May it please you Sir there is a stranger come lately to dwell within my Tribe another there is a childe to be Baptised within my tribe another this and that fellow are obstinate persons within my Tribe and altogether if they know any that presumed to come to the Communion Oh Sir here is a fellow you haue not spoken withall and when I say the people shoulde see these things c. on the other side likewise perceaue and heare their Ministers as I imagine giue a nodde with their heads and aunswere vnto them very well yee haue done your duties and we commend you for it bring this take away that c would they not fall downe think you and worship these Rabbies But you must remember alwaies that they hate superiority Equality that is it which pleaseth them Indeede they talke of an equality amongst themselues but otherwise they affect no small superiority ouer all men besides Well it is meete we should now consider what proofe they haue for all these particular dueties out of the word of God And here I pray you first of all remember that Beza is brought to this issue that whether there were any such Elders at all euer instituted by Moises from whom they fette them or not he hath nothing else to say but probabile est it is probable there were such And muche to the same effect it is that he bringeth for their seuerall offices For speaking of them especially besides that he nameth onely this one office as finding no others in the old Testament vz. that the duety of the chiefe rulers of the Synagogues was non admittere ad Synagogas quos Hierosolomitanum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 indicasset not to admit them to the Synagogues whome the Councell at Ierusalem had cast out he bringeth but this simple demonstration for the proofe of it Horum proculdubio partes fuerunt out of doubt it was their partes thus to doe Proculdubio probabile est out of doubt it is probable Notable proofes Whosoeuer will take the paines to reade that parte of his Booke de Presbyterio shall finde little else in it but his probabilities and groundlesse assertions Sauing that he further saith there is mention made in the new Testament of gouernors and ruling Elders which we deny with all the ancient fathers to haue any relation to their deuised Elders and thereupon whatsoeuer hath beene thought meete to be the office of rulers is ascribed belike at Geneua vnto them The treatise is surely vnworthy such a mans as maister Beza would be accounted And vppon the like conceipt also our Englishe Reformers haue taken vppon them to set downe all the former duties mentioned of their Elders not that they find them in the word of God but because they fit their turnes and doe account them necessary to set vp their own kingdom For proofe whereof I wil only trouble you with one mans authority but that shall be authenticall both with the brotherhood of England and also with them of Geneua where the book for the excellency of it hath been reprinted The author of that booke hauing at large described the said duties with a kind of so forth alia huiusinodi so as they may adde more when they list the force of truth doth wringe from him these words First that all these said duties speciatim in Scripturis non exprimantur are not specially expressed in the Scriptures Why then let your Elders remēber your former rule least for vsurping such offices as they haue no warrant for out of the word of God they perish with Corah Dathan and Abiram Yea but saith he though the Scriptures doe not expresse them yet that there should bee suche Archrulers with these offices as were in veteri Iudoeorum Ecclesia in the old Church of the Iewes it greatly tendeth ad ordinem decorum vtilitatem fructum Ecclesi◠to the order decency profite and fruit of the Church And what if this be denied or who shall iudge whether they be so profitable or not or when will they prooue that the duties mentioned did belong to the Archsynagogians And yet for all these vncertainties or as Cartwrights terme is meere beggeries he proceedeth to another Consistorian demonstration There are no other Elders mentioned in the Scriptures to whont these so
it containeth in it not the iudgement onlie of any particular man but is the full resolution of Cartwright and all his crue here in England contained in a certaine booke of Discipline whereunto the chiefest of theÌ„ haue subscribed The presbyterye saith that booke is an assembly or senate of elders By the name of elders are ment ministers of the word and those that are properly called Elders They meane such as in their place I haue spoken of Here then you haue that Deacons are of the presbyterie and that they are not of the presbyterie Chuse which side you will belieue I thinke they are bewitched If I might aduise you beleiue them both alike But some will peraduenture saie that it maketh no great matter whether side hath the truth that the point betwixte them is of no importance and that I am too blame to make so much of nothing Whereunto I answere that if there bee anie who shall so conceaue he is not well acquainted with the depth of this matter For indeed it worketh a meruailous alteration in the Deacons office Admitte them to haue their places and voices in the Consistories and then their authoritie is growen to bee verie great Then they haue equall right with their pastors and Doctors to ordaine ministers by imposition of their handes Then the forgiuing and retaining of sinnes doth appertaine vnto theÌ„ Then they are become the Apostles successors and doe carry the keyes of the kingdome of heauen aswell as any of the rest For in Consistorio standum maioris partis sententiae In the Consistorye men must stande to the sentence of the greater part One mans voice there is as good as an others And so in all other matters that do belonge to the Consistorie and which are to be executed there iointly by them all together the Deacons beare swaie haue a stroake with the best of them Wheras on the otherside if they be excluded out of the Consistorie as Beza our men would haue theÌ„ then they haue nothing at all to doe with any of these matters but are restrained draweÌ„ into a more narrow coÌ„passe must content theÌ„selues to be either proctors of hospitals or else collectors distributers of the peoples deuotioÌ„ to the poore And therein also they are subiect to great controlment For as the lawes certaine grounds of Geneua affirme therfore also coÌ„monly so held elsewhere DiaconoruÌ„ administratio pastorum inspectioni est obnoxia the deacons administration is vnder the ouersight of the pastors It is true thâ—t Beza is pleased to allow the deacons a little more scope theÌ„ hitherto I haue mentioned And that is that in the celebratioÌ„ of the Lordes supper they may by their office carrie the cup to the communicants M. Cartwright goeth a little further and telleth vs also that they maie likewise distribute the bread In all reformed Churches almost saith he the Deacons do assist the minister in helping of him to distribute the cup in some places also the bread If none would be angrie with me I would gladlie aske this question vz. why the Deacons might not aswell helpe the minister to baptise and to distribute the worde as well as the Lordes supper But as I saide before of the Noblemen Elders so do I also of our worshipfull Deacons What a sight were it to see a Iustice of peace peraduenture in his veluet cloake his chaine of golde and such correspondent attire as is agreeable to that calling deliuering to the people that I maie speake of so holie a sacrament sacramentallie the most blessed bodie and blood of our Sauiour Christ And yet I allow the sight as reasonable as to see the proctor of a Spittlehouse executing of that charge Peraduenture it will here be said againe that if there be anie deformitie in the beholding of either of these sights it is not in them but in the beholders For they are ecclesiastical persons as soone as they are made Deacons And then why doth it not belong vnto them to deale in ecclesiasticall causes It is wel obiected That point indeed would not be omitted It is generallie agreed vpon amongst them I confes that their new found halfe-partie Deacons are ecclesiasticall persons For our Counter-poisoner saith That whosoeuer are called as you must vnderstande their Deacons are to beare office in the Church with due examination and triall and with the consent of those to whom it appertayneth and are with fasting and prayers or with prayers onely and with imposition of handes separated or put a part to that office they are al Ecclesiasticall persons and not lay men as they terme them Surely if our Noble men were once become Elders and our chiefest Gentlemen Deacons and so both the sorts of them Ecclesiasticall persons what a clergy should we haue in England Now there is no one calling in the whole common wealth that is growen to be more contemptible with many then the calling of Clergy men But that would soone be recouered when such men of estimation should bee in the account of Ecclesiasticall persons There was an old saying Soluat Ecclesiae let euery man pay to the Church Which now is altered and made aunswerable to the humor that now raigneth Soluat Ecclesia let the Church-men pay for it And indeede if we had suche Elders and Deacons to be of the number of vs that are Church-men and Ecclesiasticall persons we might surely pay wel for it At the least if their tenths subsidies should be in all respects rateable to ours And there were no reason that the Pastors and Doctors men so farre in degree aboue the Elders and Deacons should finde lesse fauour then their inferiours or be more deepely charged except their liuings were in true value according to their degrees But this would be the mischiefe of it that the Disciplinary platformres haue so far ouershot themselues already as certainely they haue marred all these their former speculations For they haue made the Deacons office but annual And I am perswaded that if our noble men worshipfull Gentlemen were but for one yeare to all respects become Ecclesiasticall persons they would hardly be drawen to continue in that calling the next yeare after It was neuer heard of in the Church of Christ for the space of a thousand and fiue hundred yeares that the deacons office should be annuall Imposition of handes by the Presbytery to an office for a yeare In what Apostle in what Euangelist in what History may we finde it A man shalbe an Ecclesiasticall person to day and to morrowe without any fault committed by him he shall become a lay man againe Maister Beza seeing the absurdity hereof doth indeuour to salue it as well as he can And wot yee howe Surely he saith in effect that few men will bee willing to â—arry long in that office and that therefore they are glad to haue them as they may and to frame their lawes accordingly But
that for as much as Christ is neuer seuered from his body nor from any part of it and is able and dooth performe that vvherefore he is called head vnto all his Church therefore there is no need of any subordinate head ouer any particular Church or as he sayth there can be none As if a man should reason thus Christ is our sauiour our priest our prophet and our king Christ is our sheapheard our doctor and our archbishop Christ is neuer absent from his church nor euer will be and he is able to performe that wherefore he is called our sauiour our priest our prophet our pastor our doctor our bishop our archbishop our archfeeder therefore we need no priests pastors doctors bishops or archbishops neither ought there to be any such subordinate or ministeriall meanes allowed of or permitted for the sayd benefits of building teaching and gathering of the church The collections in my opinion are both alike Againe by the same phrase of speech that Christ as mediator is called by him els-where the head of euery particular church and in that respect euery particular church is tearmed his body So Christ as he is the sonne of God only to graunt him for a minute so much being the head of euery particular kingdome it may be said that euery particular kingdome is his body Now then whereas he reasoneth thus very grauely in his owne iudgement If the church be the body of Christ and of the ciuile magistrat it should haue tvvo heads vvhich vvere monstrous Why may not I in like sort make this inference if the common-wealth be the body of Christ and of the ciuile magistrat it should haue two heads which were mōstrous which collection being ridiculous by his own phrase offspeech his said argumēt is also ridiculous For my part certainly I do thinke that the word heard as it is yeelded to christiā princes signifying nothing els as I sayd but a cheefe ruler I see no cause then why it should be a more monstrous thing for thē to be subordinat rulers of the church vnder christ then to see princes thrust downe and six or seuen base persons a malster a brewer a baker a mason a smith a butcher a tinker and such like aduanced to that so high an authoritie Well as our prouerbe sayth Be it as it bee may and that is no banning If Princes will bee thus dallyed withall let them for me and they shall bee the first that will repent it But vvhat should they do when they heare their authoritie so substantially impugned by so worthie persons with such inuincible arguments such demonstrations such collections such concurrencie in their opinions such concord such notable agreement together in their grounds for that purpose Indeed you will say so when you shall see how after they haue foiled princes in such sort as it hath bene declared they intitle themselues and their wise and worshipfull Eldermen to their authoritie You cannot imagine mens bodies to be faster tied together with the strongest rope that euer was made of sand then their minds and iudgements are fast lincked and vnited in this matter As now it shall partly appeare after I haue layd before you three or foure of their new quircks very pertinent to this place some of them haue bene alreadie touched but you cannot heare a good thing too often They affirme if I can vnderstand them that euery wel ordered parish hauing an Eldership in it is the perfect bodie of Christ that Christ is properly to be called as well the head of euery such particular body or church as he is of the Catholicke church Against whome by the way I might oppose a chiefe diuine of New stadium a Consistorian towne in the Palsgraues countrie who sayth that as the Church is called the body of Christ it properly signifieth Solos electos the elect onely and that all particular churches as the members of the Catholike church do make but one body of Christ vvhereof hee is to bee called especially the head But I will not stand vpon these points onely I touch them that it might still appeare how well they agree together Then to proceed The same men likewise affirme that euery one of their mentioned well ordered parishes is a representation and as it vvere a liuely portraiture of the vvhole or Catholicke church and that singularum ecclesiarum idem est ius euery such parish Catholicke church hath equall authoritie no more one then another And now I draw nere to the pith of this matter For as touching the gouernment of euery one of these particular bodies of Christ or of euery one of these demie catholicke churches they hold that princes being iustly dispossessed their pastors doctors and aldermen are by right Christs immediat and subordinat lieutenants or vicars generall But now for as much as our sauiour Christ say some of them is a priest a prophet and a king and all in respect that he is both God and man our only mediator and redeemer Here beginneth a new skitmish from which of these his dignities they must deriue their interest whether their said vice-gerents are to challenge their soueraigntie from Christ as he is a priest from Christ as hee is a prophet or frō Christ as he is a king For as the great learned clearke that made the booke of ecclesiastical and ciuile policie affirmeth vvhosoeuer is to be called Christs vicar hee must be so tearmed either in respect of all those his three offices or of tvvo of them or of one at the least It hath bene commonly held heretofore that Christ taking vpon him the ministerie of the gospell to preach and teach the same did ordaine his Apostles and disciples to ioine with him in that part of his priestly office In regard whereof it hath also bene defended against the papists that euery lawfull minister is as much the vicar of Christ or his substitute to teach his people as the bishop of Rome and that they ought all of them equally when they preach the word pray for the people or administer the sacraments to be receiued heard and intertained as Christs embassadors Christs ministers euen as though Christ himself in his own person did presently here vpon earth execute these offices Besides it is vrged by the Counterpoizer many other that Christ hauing translated the Iewes Sanedrim into his church he hath appointed vnto vs for the Ievves priests our pastors and for their teaching Leuits our doctors c. Whereby it followeth that if the priests of the old law were Christs vicars as he was their priest the pastors ought so to be in the time of the gospel But the excellēt politian he vseth the matter in such sort as by no means the ministers of the word may haue any tenure of their offices vnder christ as he is priest Ne ipsi quidē pastores erunt Christi sacerdotis vicarij quod tamen falso
themselues are excepted Whereof it commeth that the very same proiect is made to the Lordes of her Maiesties most honourable Councell which was deuised by Beza for Scotland vz. that in place of the Bishops there might be present in the parliament house some wise and graue Ministers of especiall gifts learning sorted out of all the land to yeld their Councell according to Gods heauenly lawe euen as the ciuill Iudges are readie to giue their aduise according to the temporall law and for matters of greater difficultie But would they sitte there as the Iudges doe and haue no voices I take it they would scorne that greatly For I nothing doubt but if they were there they would account themselues the wisest in the companie And therefore it was more substantially considered of by him who penned a Supplication to her Maiestie and wished That foure and twentie Doctors of Diuinitie to be called by such names as it should please hir highnes might be admitted into the Parliament house and haue their voyces there in steade of the Bishops And would they bee called Lords if it pleased her Maiestie for the honour of that house to appoynt it so Their wordes doe import so much and I make no doubt of it but that to gratifie her highnesse they would bee content to humble themselues so farre In the hope which they haue conceiued to ouerthrow the state of Bishoppes and to haue their deuise allowed of and established in the lande they inueigh most bitterly against the Bishoppes and the Conuocation house misliking that the dealing in ecclesiasticall causes should bee committed vnto them in sorte as now it is affirming that the liberties of the Parliament are thâ—reby betrayed and that it appertaineth to that Court to order matters of religion But what if the Bishops were excluded and none admitted into the Conuocation house but such as they woulde chuse from amongst themselues how then Indeed saith the Supplicator If the Conuocation house were such as it ought to bee c. then were it not lawfull for the Parliament to establish any thing in the matters appertaining to the pure worship of God but by theyr direction Which is this in effect if I vnderstand them that the Parliament should prouyde theyr new pretended gouernours of sufficient maintenance and set vp theyr Eldershippes and then enact it likewise that whatsoeuer they should ordaine in their assemblies and meetings for the time to come concerning Church causes should be in full strength and for euer obeyed vntill it might please them to make some alteration Which is the point that Knox aymed at in his Exhortation to England wherein for the good instruction of her Maiesties subiectes he sendeth them from Geneua these Allobrogicall rules That the pretended discipline ought to bee set vp that all Princes ought to submit themselues vnder the yoke of it that what Prince King or Emperour shall disanull the same he is to be reputed Gods enemie and to be helde vnworthie to raigne aboue his people and then sayth if such order were once established as there he prosecuteth and the discipline well executed accordingly theyr yearely comming to the Parliament for matters of religion shall bee superfluous and vayne And this also is playne by Cartwrights newe forme of discipline subscribed vnto by himselfe and his fellowes Which forme they haue auowed vppon theyr oathes to bee such as that they purposed to haue beene suitors to her Maiestie for the generall establishing of it In which their purpose if once they may preuayle there shall neuer Parliament bee troubled againe in matters of religion otherwise then as I sayde for making of lawes that the people may obey their orders For the whole gouernement is there ascribed vnto their Elderships other assemblies insomuch as the ciuill Magistrate is not once mentioned in it It is well knowne how vehement they haue been and still continue against the now Lord Archbishop of Canterbury in that he is one of her Maiesties most honourable priuie Councell accounting it vnlawful for a Bishop or Minister of the worde to holde anie such roome and authoritie And yet notwithstanding it is greatly allowed of liked that Beza in Geneua should be one of the Councel of that state there one of the threescore and they admit not anie into theyr Consistory so much as the meanest of their Aldermen but hee must bee eyther a Syndicke or one of the Councell of threescore or one of the Councell of two hundreth Now I cannot possibly be brought to thinke that the worde of God should deale so partially but that it may bee as lawfull heere as there if it please her Maiestie to haue a Bishop to bee one of her most honourable Councell It is apparant in the former Chapiter what little account they make of generall Councels The best are censured by them and reprooued It is not well borne by Cartwright that the Councell of Nice should be tearmed a famous Councell And for other Councels or Synodes they are scarcely reckoned to bee worthie the mentioning If you presse one of that forte with the authoritie of them all though hee be not thirty yeares of age hee will not sticke to make a tush at them and tell you that himselfe is of another opinion No decrees made by them will bind these fellowes And as touching our owne nationall Synodes and Parliaments they are prosecuted with the greatest contempt The reformation of religion made by that authoritie is tearmed a deformation The articles of religion are misliked in diuers points The Iniunctions Aduertisements Canons Orders Ceremonies and all thinges in a manner are despised by them For they are but mens preceptes forsooth euery man must trie them and keepe or allowe what he list at the least if hee will but pretend that hee dooth it of conscience Howbeit if they may haue once authoritie to establish their Elderships and to meete together in theyr classicall prouinciall or nationall assemblies there to make such lawes and orders as they shall thinke good then see I praye you how they chaunge theyr song Touching my departure from that holy assembly without leaue c. Icraue pardon Holy assembly It was a Conuenticle in London about the yeare 1584. I am ready to runne if the Church commaund according to the holy decrees and orders of discipline Holy decrees and orders The matter was for his going into the Lowe Countries with the Earle of Leicester and for his absence from his benefice To the determination of a nationall Synode men shall stande as it was at Ierusalem except it bee in a great matter of fayth or a great matter expressely against the Scriptures It was agreede vppon in the Northampton classis that concerning any matters of doctrine or about the sense of any place of Scriptures the brethren within that compasse must stande to the determination of that clâ—ssis And these are the