be set and fixed so as it may not be lawfull for the Ministers to recede from it in their function as well to help and assist the simplicity and unskilfulness of some as to give a fuller evidence of the consent and uniformity of all the several Congregations and finally that by this means the changeable humour of those that affect novelties may be check'd and obviated E. D. I always thought Calvin had been of the same judgment that we are though you would seem to persuade me to the contrary But to make an end of our Discourse at this time I shall onely ask you one question more and then I have done which is this What your French Divines judge concerning us who for Conscience sake refuse to make use of the Liturgy in our Assemblies or to frequent the Congregations of those that do F. P. What you desire you may find in the forementioned Discourse of Dr. Durel where he sets down this Letter of the Reverend Monsieur Goyon Minister at Bordeaux which is thus translated SIR I Have received your Letter with an extreme satisfaction as having been informed thereby both of your own condition and of that of the Church of England I must confess that we have been strangely deceived in this Countrey by what hath been related to us touching the English Presbyterians I did always imagine them to be a People that followed the same order we observe in our Churches of France but it seems they are very far from it The Description you give of them shews them to be a strange Sect not fit to be tolerated and I conceive that the best remedy of this disorder and confusion would be to reduce them all to the Episcopal Government for I hold it impossible that the Church of England should ever be quiet or flourish otherwise The Convocation comes in a very fit time for this purpose and I question not but that Assembly will take order about it which will be a great satisfaction to me for otherwise you will be continually in trouble and the Adversaries will take advantage thereby either to blemish and slander our Religion or to contrive and foment Plots against the State I beseech the Lord that he would be pleased to rule and govern that Holy Assembly and pour his Blessings upon their Determinations for the Advancement of his Kingdom E. D. Though this Man saith too much yet he saith nothing in particular to the point of our refusing to reade the Common-prayer in our Assemblies and to frequent the Churches where it is read F. P. If you think that Monsieur Goyon doth not speak home enough to the matter in question be pleased to reade what Ludovicus Capellus Divinity-Professor at Saumur saith to it in the Body of Divinity published by him and his two Collegues Moses Amyraldus and Joshua Placaeus in which Book this Learned Man having at large proved the Lawfulness Vse and Necessity of a set Form of Liturgy in opposition to the then newly started Directory which the Presbyterians endeavour'd to establish instead of the Common-prayer It is also worthy our noting that he maintain'd a publick Dispute on this Subject in the Divinity-School wherein he defended the Common-prayer of the Church of England as good sound and expedient against the Cavils and Objections of the Presbyterians even at that very time when the Opposers of set Forms were in the greatest power in this Kingdom and that it was generally believed the Liturgy of the Church of England would never have been restored E. D. But what saith he in particular of us for if you don't tell me I shall scarce take the pains of reading over his Book to inform my self F. P. I am unwilling to give you his words because I fear you 'll find some of his Expressions too sharp and cutting E. D. As long as I suppose he was no English Tory I shall take all he saith of us in good part F. P. Towards the end of his first Thesis he saith Vnum superest examinandum c. which in English speaks thus There remains yet one thing to be enquir'd into viz. Whether there ought to be a certain set Form of Liturgy consisting of express words or Whether it ought rather to be left to the will of the Pastor to use what words or form he pleaseth and this because of a new Generation of late Upstarts which will admit of no certain and prescribed Form of Liturgy neither in the publick Assemblies of the Church nor in private Devotions but maintain that all ought to be left to the pleasure of Ministers and the Heads of Families And in his sixth Thesis he declares That the several Authors of the Reformation had every where compos'd and prescrib'd several set Forms of Liturgy and that the same were still made use of by the Reformed Churches in their several Nations and Districts with happy success and edification till of late there arose in England a froward scrupulous and over nice not to say superstitious Generation of men who thought good not onely to blame and find fault with but wholly to abrogate and cast off the Liturgy hitherto used in their Church instead whereof they have introduc'd their Directory as they call it He adds further That the Reasons and Causes you pretend to have for abolishing the Common-prayer were levissimae nulliusque pene momenti very slight and scarce of any moment at all And in Thesis 28. he saith Certainly nothing else has stirred up these men so eagerly to reject all manner of set Forms of Prayer but partly the desire of innovating and corrupting to the end that under the specious pretext of Liberty to pray and prophesie they might introduce all manner of Sects and Errors into the Church and partly their false and prejudicate opinion persuading themselves that we are now arriv'd at that time wherein as in the days of the Apostles the Spirit of Prophecy of prayer and Supplications is to be poured forth upon the present Church according to that of Joel 2.28 and Zach. 12. v. 10. which is the common and most pestilent Error of all the Phanaticks concerning the sending of the H. Ghost by Christ c. And drawing up his whole Dissertation into certain Conclusions he saith Thesis 49. The use of these set Forms of Prayer cannot justly be condemned forasmuch as the same may be always and every where profitable and convenient and because they have been receiv'd by the universal Christian Church for these 1300 years all the World over except onely among these new-fangled Independents so he calls all those who reject the use of set Forms And Thesis 50. he adds further So that the perversness peevishness and superstition or rather the malapert and obstinate wilfulness of these men is both prodigious and sensless who out of a mere humour or desire of lawless licentiousness or out of design to introduce confusion into the Church do superstitiously condemn and compare to an Idol forbidden by the fourth Commandment a thing which in it self is most innocent the use of it edifying and the practice of it most convenient which has long obtained in the Universal Church was never yet condemned by any Church and which all the Churches of God make use of with the greatest benefit that may be which yet these men most foolishly would have all to forbear and abhor And lastly in 51 Thesis he saith And amongst the rest those are most to be detested who either will not allow the Lord's Prayer to be said at all or will have it said alone and not in conjunction with any other Prayer whether publick or private and who think it a great sin for any godly man to be present either in the Church at Common-prayer or in any Family at private Devotions where any set Form is used and hold this for a just cause of Separation from the Church lest they should be Partakers of the Sins of those who use set Forms and thereby become defiled being not unlike to those of whom the Prophet Isaiah speaks chap. 6. v. 5. which say Stand by thy self come not near me for I am holier than thou these are a smoak in my nostrils saith the Lord that is they kindle my wrath against them The Lord grant they may return to a better mind Amen And so say I too Amen Amen And thus I take my leave of you in the words of this Learned and most Renowned Divine E. D. But pray why in such haste We have not yet made an end of our dispute for when I told you I had done I meant with your Liturgy Wherefore now it remains that we discourse concerning the Ceremonies of your Church which I intended for a Second Part of this our Conference F. P. If I be not mistaken we have discours'd long enough for once besides I must give you time to consider what hath been said and if you chance to approve it and desire further to discourse me about the Ceremonies of the Church I now assure you that I shall at any time be ready to serve you to the utmost of my power The End of the First Part.
what you find so extraordinary good in the Common-prayer I shall also on my part declare what I dislike in it F. P. Be it so And to the end we may proceed with some order let us cursorily reade over the Common-prayer-book which I have here with me E. D. This indeed will be a good way to enable us to judge the better concerning it and therefore I am very free to run it over with you onely must desire you not to take it ill if now and then I interrupt you with my Objections against any part of it F. P. What you desire is contain'd in our agreement for according to it I am to tell you what I approve of in our Liturgy and you are to tell me what you dislike in it by propounding your Objections against it E. D. Very well and in so doing we shall finely Anatomize these Relicks of Popery But it is your turn to begin F. P. The first thing I meet with in our common-prayer-Common-prayer-book are some Sentences of the Holy Scriptures of which the Minister is to reade one or more before he proceeds to the Prayers or Devotions which seems to me to be very proper and usefull for certainly we can never better begin God's Service than with his own Words Next follows an Exhortation wherein is represented to the People the End of their present assembling or meeting together which is as the Exhortation expresseth it To confess their Sins to render Thanks to God to set forth his Praise and to ask those things that be necessary either for Soul or Body and towards the end thereof we are informed and directed how to perform these holy and bounden Duties viz. sincerely and reverently with a pure heart and humble voice which caution is very necessary if we consider how prone Men are without any due preparation of themselves to rush into the presence of the great God who is a consuming fire and before whom they ought to appear with the most reverential awe and trembling as likewise how apt we are to utter any thing before him without considering that he is in Heaven and we on Earth and how negligent we generally are in disposing and qualifying our selves for the acceptable performance of the Sacred Duties of our Religious Worship E. D. So far all is pretty tolerable but by and by we shall meet with a great deal of stuff F. P. Not to insist now upon your plain contradicting of your self for whereas but just now you positively asserted that there was nothing so much as tolerable in our Liturgy you now plainly confess the contrary I shall onely desire you when we come to those places where your great deal of stuff lies that you would stop me for I shall be glad to hear the Objections you have against any part of it and in the mean time I proceed to speak of the Confession which is the next thing that occurs in our Liturgy The Minister and People having been thus stirr'd up by the foregoing Exhortation to compose their Thoughts and prepare their Hearts for a due offering up of their Morning or Evening Sacrifice the next thing they do is to fall down on their knees confessing in a solemn and humble manner their Sins unto Almighty God earnestly imploring his Grace and Mercy for the Pardon of them And this according to my apprehension is very proper and necessary in our approaches to God for since it is our Sins that separate between God and us and hide his face from us we can do no better than in the first place to beg of our most mercifull Father the Remission of them that he may utterly efface them and put them out of the way of interrupting the free course of his gracious and benign Communications and Influences If I regard saith the Psalmist iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear my prayer Psal 66. v. 16. Moreover it is very reasonable before we beg any favour from God to entreat for a removal of those Evils we groan under viz. the guilt and punishment of our Sins E. D. I suppose you did not observe this method in the Common-prayer the Protestants use in France F. P. Yes but we did Our Ministers always begin Divine Service with a Sentence of the Holy Scriptures and I shall not scruple to tell you that it is expresly the same with which the Roman Office of the Mass beginneth and yet we have had the good luck never to be censur'd as Popishly affected upon this account and in the next place they proceed to exhort and invite the People to accompany them to the Throne of the heavenly Grace repeating after them a Confession of Sins in substance much the same with that in the English Liturgy E. D. But your Ministers did not reade these Prayers out of a Book as the scandalous and lazy Clergy here in England do F. P. I find you make it your business to affront our Clergy at every turn and suppose the most abusive and scurrilous Language to be good enough for them yet question much whether you would take it well to be paid in the same coin however I cannot but tell you my thoughts which incline me to believe you have learned these ill manners from your own Minister E. D. What I hope you will not accuse our Minister of being unmannerly For I dare say he is as courteous and civil as affable and obliging and in a word as much a Gentleman as any Man I know of F. P. He shewed himself to be so indeed when the other day being in his Pulpit thought fit to interrupt the series of his discourse to give the lye to a person entring into the Meeting who it seems had reported something as he conceiv'd to his disadvantage E. D. Ay this is a fine story forg'd at pleasure by some of your Clergy-men to expose and make our Ministers odious F. P. 'T is so far from being a story that I am ready to justifie the truth of it by many credible Ear-witnesses But to return to the matter in hand though first I must tell you in answer to your question that our French Ministers always use their Books in repeating of their Common-prayer reading it word by word and yet have been so happy as to escape the Censure of being either scandalous or lazy upon that account E. D. I onely ask you this question by the bye But let us see what follows F. P. After the Confession which is the last thing we have spoke of follows the Absolution wherein the Minister declares and pronounces to all those that truly repent and unfeignedly believe the holy Gospel the Absolution of their sins and no doubt supposing our Confession to have been sincere and hearty the Minister has good reason to declare our Sins are absolved upon these two Evangelical conditions of Faith and Repentance But to the end no scruple may be left in this matter be pleas'd to observe that the Minister doth not
proceed if you please F. P. After the short Prayers and Responsals now mentioned follows the Doxology Glory be to the Father and to the Son c. which is both a sound Form of praising and glorifying the eternal and tri-une God Father Son and Holy Ghost and a short Creed or Confession of our Faith concerning the Trinity in Unity And if you demand of me why it is placed here in the close of the Penitential part of our Prayers I answer Because having before confessed our Sins and humbly entreated mercy and remission for them and being now in full hope that our mercifull Father has graciously heard and granted our requests we immediately change our Prayers into Praises and our Supplications into Thanksgivings and with transports of Joy and Gratitude we sound forth our Glory be to the Father for it is he who pardons our Sins and to the Son because 't is for his sake they are pardoned and to the Holy Ghost who alone assures us thereof And the Minister afterwards as if this were not enough because in the Gloria Patri we more particularly worship the Trinity in Unity and not the Unity in Trinity calls upon the People again to adore the Unity saying Praise ye the Lord to which the People answer The Lord's Name be praised which words contain the Christian Hallelujahs or Songs of praise and triumph for the absolution and remission of their Sins or else if you will you may take them for a Preface or Entrance to the Reading of the Psalms E. D. You may take them for what you please as for my part I don't concern my self about them and therefore you may go on F. P. In the Morning Service the Psalms are ushered in with the Venite O come let us sing unto the Lord c. as being an Exhortatory Psalm whereby we continue mutually to invite and encourage each other worthily to adore and worship the Eternal God And that this Psalm is very well placed here appears first Because by it we are informed what we are to doe and secondly how we ought to behave our selves in the performance of the succeeding Offices or Duties The former of these viz. what we are to doe we have in these words Sing unto the Lord Come before his presence Serve and worship him and lastly Hear his Voice or his most Holy Word The latter How we are to perform these Duties is thus express'd We are to sing unto the Lord heartily rejoicing in the strength of our salvation to come before his presence with thanksgiving with a gratefull sense and humble acknowledgment of all his Benefits serve and worship him with all becoming Reverence and Veneration falling down on our faces and kneeling before the Lord our Maker not hardning our hearts when we hear his voice but receiving it with Faith and Obedience And thus we proceed to the Psalms appointed for the day the Church having ordered them to be read over once every Month. E. D. Pray tell me the reason why they are appointed to be read oftner than any other part of Holy Scripture F. P. Because they are most accommodated for Prayer and Devotion and consequently of a more continual use than any other part of God's Word The ignorant will find here profitable instruction and information the wicked earnest exhortations and severe warnings the poor and afflicted will meet with sutable Prayers and Petitions to beg the good things they want as well as to deprecate the evils they groan under and the rich and prosperous will be furnish'd with Thanksgivings and joyfull Songs of Praise Indeed the whole contexture of them shews them to be fitted and suited to all persons in all circumstances whether young or old Kings or Subjects Nobles or Commons in prosperity or adversity in a wealthy and comfortable or in a pinching and afflicted condition and they are propoâ—tioned with that exactness to thesâ— several circumstances as if they haâ— been made on purpose to express anâ— represent every one's particular staâ—â— and condition E. D. I must own there is somewhat of truth in what you have said concerning the Psalms but one thing I find that spoils all which is your silly way of reading them by turns the Minister reading one Verse and the People answering another which certainly is a confus'd if not a scandalous way of praising God F. P. What you are pleas'd to call confus'd and scandalous is in my opinion very edifying and heavenly and my opinion is grounded upon Reason for this way of reading or singing Psalms by turns as hath been partly already hinted is extremely well suited to excite each others Affections and to encrease our Emulation making us as it were to strive to outvie each other in Zeal and Devotion and to contend who shall worship and praise God with most earnestness and fervency Now this holy Emulation cannot but be very profitable and edifying yea and Heavenly too because it comes nearest to the Pattern of Heavenly and Angelical Adoration for thus we reade that the Seraphims cry to each other by turns Holy holy holy Lord God of Hosts c. Isai 6.3 E. D. Well but I have another Objection against your way of reading the Psalms and that is that at the end of every one of them you repeat the Gloria Patri Glory be to the Father and to the Son c. which certainly is a very vain repetition F. P. I am not of your opinion for if you observe this Doxology is not applied twice to the same subject for though we repeat it constantly at the closing of every Psalm yet because they most commonly differ and vary in their subjects for you will hardly find two Psalms together of the same Argument some being Psalms of Doctrine and Instruction some of Confession of Sins some of Profession of Faith some of Supplication and Prayer some of Praises and Thanksgiving And forasmuch as every one of these Arguments contain sufficient and powerfull motives to stir up our Hearts and Affections to bless and glorifie God therefore the closing of every Psalm with this Doxology Glory be to the Father c. cannot be judged vain and improper but rather very proper and edifying After the reading or singing of the Psalms we proceed to reade the Lessons the one out of the Old Testament and the other out of the New which order affords this great conveniency amongst several others that by this means the Old Testament is read over once and the New Testament thrice every Year E. D. This is a great mistake of yours whether wilfull or no I shall not enquire for the Book of Chronicles is never read as well as many particular Chapters of some other Books F. P. I confess the Books of Chronicles are not read but the reason of it is plain and evident because for the most part they are but a repetition of the Books of Kings which are read in their course and if any Chapters of other Books be
disagree at all in the meaning of the words F. P. I am glad we are so far agreed for it is evident that according to this meaning of the words a set Form of Prayer is so far from being a hindrance that indeed it is a great help to fervent praying by the Spirit and on the contrary Extemporary Prayer must needs be a great impediment to it To convince you of this I desire you would consider that when we pray by a Form we have more time to study the import of our Requests and to weigh and examine every Petition with greater attention we have more leisure to understand and discern our wants and to present them before God we can the better prepare and dispose our selves for so holy a Duty and in a word we can be more intent and recollected to improve the motions of the Spirit having nothing else to doe but to fix our mind wholly on God whilst we are praising of him and have our hearts suitably affected with the things we pray for Whereas in Extemporary Prayer the mind of the Minister or whoever else it is that prayeth is taken up in hunting for expressions to utter his thoughts and for fear of being put to a stand he is forced to follow not the motions of the Spirit or the dictate of his understanding but the fluency of an acquired habit of Praying and by this means doth often begin where he should end and end where he should begin And those very men that speak so much against the necessary and edifying Repetitions that we use in our Common-prayer do very frequently in their Extemporary-prayer repeat the same things over and over again though it may be in different expressions And as for the People that hear a Minister pray an Extemporary-prayer as they do not know before-hand what he will say they must first attend to what he saith in the next place they must consider whether what he prayeth be according to the Word of God and fit for them to join with but whilst the Hearer is thus employ'd he that prays is got to another thing and leaves his Hearers behind to overtake him as they best can which according to my apprehension makes the way of praying extempore so difficult and uneasie that it is morally impossible for both Minister and People to pray so devoutly or at least so understandingly as they ought to doe If you please well to weigh and consider what I have here offered I question not but you will be convinced that a set Form of Prayer is so far from being a hindrance that it is a great furtherance to zealous praying by the Spirit whereas the Prayer you are so much taken with is indeed a great obstacle to it E. D. However Sir I suppose you will grant me that it is this tying themselves up to a Form that hath made the Ministers of the Church of England so dull and devoid of the Gift of Prayer that they cannot pray without Book and may rather be compar'd to those Dumb dogs whom the Prophet reproves than be look'd upon as Ministers of the Gospel F. P. Though I am a Stranger here yet I have very good reason to believe that I am better acquainted with the Ministers of the Church of England than you are and am better inform'd of their parts and abilities than you can be for I have made it my business to be acquainted with them not maliciously to slander and abuse them but to the end I might the better understand and value them and profit by them And if you will give me leave to speak my Judgment which is not grounded upon hear-say but upon good knowledge of and converse with them I must render them this true and unbiass'd testimony That of all the Clergy I ever was acquainted with they are the most Learned and Godly E. D. You are a French man Sir and therefore I suppose that much of this may pass for Compliment F. P. I am indeed a French-man by birth but yet I value my self upon this account that in heart and affection I am a hearty true Englishman And since you are pleas'd to look upon my judgment of the English Clergy no better than a Compliment I challenge you to tell me what Nation in the World can boast of having such great and worthy Divines as we have E. D. Pray how comes it to pass then that they cannot pray F. P. Who told you they could not Sure I am that they both can and do pray and that so excellently that as they surpass those of other Nations for Learning so likewise in Devotion and the Gift of Prayer and if you had taken time to peruse their Books of Devotion you would never have told me as you do That the prescribing of a Form of Prayer has been the occasion why the Ministers of the Church of England are become so dull and ignorant even to that excess that they cannot pray E. D. However I think they are much to blame for that in their Pulpits if they pray at all they dispatch them in so few words that any one that hears them will be apt to conclude they cannot pray but should you once come to our Meetings ay there you would hear Praying indeed F. P. I will not deny but that commonly our Clergy in the Pulpit use onely a short Prayer before Sermon but don 't at all deserve to be blam'd but rather to be commended for so doing if we consider first that our Clergy chuse to make use of a short Prayer onely before Sermon because they have found by wofull Experience that long extemporary Prayers have begot in most People a dislike of the Common-prayer and consequently have been the occasion of those unchristian Animosities Schisms and Divisions that are so rife amongst us And I think you have no just reason to blame this pre-caution of theirs till you have made out first that the People doe well to undervalue and despise the Common-prayer and that the Aversion they have for it is a sufficient ground for Schism and Division A second reason why the Ministers of the Church of England use such short Prayers is that by this means they may condescend to the weakness of the People lest an over-long Prayer should weary those who have already attended upon and join'd their hearts and voices with the publick Prayers offer'd up to God by the Church And in the third and last place we shall find that there is nothing good or usefull for us which the Minister hath not already prayed for nor any thing evil or hurtfull which he has not deprecated in the publick Prayers appointed by the Church which methinks might at least lessen the fault of our Clergy in your sight and somewhat allay the bitterness of your Censure against them And as for your Meetings where you tell me there is Praying indeed I must freely tell you that though I never was at any Meeting in my
we are speaking of had no Power or Authority committed to them to plant or institute a new Religion but onely to reform the Abuses that were crept into the Church and the Corruptions of the publick Worship of God which is the chiefest part of the Christian Religion now in this case it is evident that it was none of their duty or office to take away the whole publick Service or Liturgy which indeed at that time was very corrupt though not to that degree but that some good was still found amongst it but onely to change what was amiss to supply the defects of it and cast away whatsoever was corrupt or superfluous Secondly It was great wisedom in them to observe the mean between two extreams by shunning on the one hand a Spirit of bitterness and hatred against the Party they reformed from and on the other hand avoiding a sinfull compliance with the corruptions of those who were so unwilling to part with their Idolatry and Superstition And farther to illustrate my Argument I must tell you that the Reformers of our Church acted according to this commendable Maxim of Christian Charity and Moderation viz. That in love and condescention to the Church of Rome we ought not to reject any thing used by them but what is found contrary to the Word of God whereas the Reformers of your Party proceed according to this Rule That in hatred and detestation of Popery we ought not to admit the least thing the Papists make use of in their Divine Service and onely for this reason because they use it Now I would fain know of you which of these two you take to be the most Christian and Charitable method and whether the Principle our Reformers went by be not preferable to that of your Party The Reason is evident beyond dispute because our Reformers by retaining what was good and of primitive Purity in the publick Service of the Romanists and rejecting onely what was manifestly corrupt and superstitious they left a door open for them and as it were friendly invited them to leave their Adulterous Church and to enter into our Communion E. D. But pray tell me what great or good effect this Condescension did ever yet produce for I never understood that this their moderate and designing way of Reforming the Church has been a means to persuade the Papists to leave their Idolatry and Superstitions and to become Converts to their Church F. P. If I should grant you that the number of Popish Converts to our Church is not very considerable will it follow from thence that the means used for so good and charitable an End were undue or unlawfull For though God hitherto hath not been pleased to bless these good means with the greatest success that might be wish'd for yet we know not how soon he may especially considering that we had never more reason to expect the total downfall of Popery which according to outward appearance can no way so probably be brought about as by the Papists embracing the Protestant Religion Let us therefore take heed of deriding as you seem to do those lawfull moderate and Christian-like methods the Church of England hath made use to facilitate the Papists Conversion E. D. I find then you take your Common-prayer to be a lawfull moderate and Christian-like method or means to facilitate the Conversion of the Papists F. P. I do so and I question not but in due time it will prove very effectual that way to the stopping of the mouths of all gain-sayers E. D. Ay you may look for it long enough I suppose and if by great change it should ever prove to be an effectual means I dare say for all that it will never be a lawfull one for to speak freely and without mincing the matter I am of opinion that though it may be lawfull to use some Form of Prayer yet it is altogether unlawfull to use that Form which is now in vogue amongst you F. P. Then I find you are not altogether irreconcilable to the Lawfulness of Praying by Forms but you are not satisfied with the Forms we use I shall be glad to hear the Grounds of your dissatisfaction as hoping by this means to have an opportunity offer'd me to enlarge my self more in the Praise of our Common-prayer than hitherto I have had occasion to do E. D. I know the humour of French-men is to be complaisant and complimental and so very probably you design in compliment to the Church of England to fall down to the Common-prayer the great Idol of the English Clergy as you have already express'd your great Respects for their dull and prophane Priests F. P. I beg of you Sir let us discourse without Prejudice or Passion and be so kind as to tell me calmly and friendly what Objections you have against our common-prayer-Common-prayer-book in particular E. D. Before I give you the Particular Objections I have against the Common-prayer-book I shall premise this General Observation That your Common-prayer is so bad that there is nothing good in it no nor any thing that is so much as tolerable F. P. How strangely you and I differ in Opinion As for my part I really think there is nothing in it but what is very good E. D. If you can prove that as I desire you would Eris mihi magnus Apollo for indeed you will do more than all your Clergy-men that ever I discours'd with and more than all the Books that treat of this Subject have been able to do F. P. If the case be so indeed I should be loath to undertake the task For if none of our Clergy that you have discours'd with nor any of those excellent Books written in the Defence of our Liturgy have been able to convince you of the goodness and usefulness thereof it would be folly for me to attempt it for I am very sensible that my Parts and Abilities are far below any one of our Clergy that you have had to deal with and to speak the truth 't is from them and their Writings I have acquired the best part of that little learning and insight into these things that I have E. D. I hope you are as modest a Man as your discourse would import besides being a French Protestant you as such can have neither publick nor private Reason to bear any ill-will to our Party wherefore I look upon you as an unbiass'd Person without Prejudice or Partiality and consequently fit to be discours'd with about the matter in question between us And indeed all this makes me the more desirous to hear the Arguments you can produce for proving your Assertion That there is nothing in the Common-prayer-book but what is very good F. P. I thought all this while that you intended to propound your Objections against the Common-prayer and that my onely business would have been to Answer them E. D. I suppose we may do both these things at once for if you please to tell me
and Hereticks and therefore as was said before it cannot be too often repeated But before we proceed further we may here take notice that upon certain Festival-days the Athanasian Creed is read instead of that of the Apostle's E. D. Is there any thing more in the Athanasian Creed than in that of the Apostle's F. P. Onely this that in the Athanasian Creed the Mysteries of the most Blessed Trinity and of the Incarnation of the Son of God are more at large asserted explained and unfolded and that in the most sound plain and perspicuous terms those sublime and incomprehensible Mysteries are capable of After which we proceed to this devout hearty and mutual Salutation of the Minister and the People the Minister saying The Lord be with you and the People answering And with thy Spirit E. D. For my part I cannot approve of the Minister and People thus saluting one another because it looks too much like Compliment which though perhaps it may agree very well with your French humour yet is not at all agreeable to mine F. P. If you 'll quarrel at this you must quarrel with the Word of God and with the language of the Holy Ghost in Scripture for most certain it is that this Salutation is taken thence viz. what the Minister saith out of the Book of Ruth 2.4 and used by St. Paul 2 Thess 3.16 and what the People answer out of the Epistle to the Galat. 6.18 Which words whether consider'd in themselves or with respect to the end they are design'd for are of exceeding great and good use for now we are entring upon a new part of Divine Service viz. that of Prayer but seeing that without God's aid and assistance it is impossible either for Minister or People to acquit themselves rightly of this duty which is of so great concern to the whole Congregation Minister as well as People wherefore they begin by praying each for other humbly supplicating God to assist them in their present undertaking the Minister beginning with this short Prayer for the People The Lord be with you lifting up your Hearts and raising your Devotions that my Prayers may not be in vain for you and the People in acknowledgment of the Minister's hearty good will and as being themselves extreamly concern'd in the work he is about answer his Prayer with this good wish And with thy Spirit to the end your Prayers may be so fervent that you and we may reap the fruit and benefit of those Petitions you are now going to offer up to God for the whole Congregation And having thus both Minister and People implored the Divine Presence and Assistance in the great Work we are entring upon we do next in a most humble and solemn manner address our selves to each Person of the most Blessed Trinity to have Mercy upon us viz. that our Sins and Transgressions may not hinder our Prayers and Petitions from being graciously received and accepted at the Throne of Grace saying Lord have mercy upon us Christ have mercy upon us Lord have mercy upon us After which we address our selves to God in that excellent Form of Prayer our Saviour hath taught us E. D. But me-thinks forasmuch as you have used this Prayer already that the reiterating of it must needs be accounted a vain repetition condemned by our Saviour in Matth. 6.6 F. P. True it is that our Church has appointed the Lord's-prayer to be used more than once in our Liturgy but that the reiterating of it cannot come under the lash of those vain repetitions forbid by our Saviour will appear if you consider that we repeat it onely in each distinct Service of the Church before we made use of it as a Confirmation and further assurance of the Absolution of our Sins and now we repeat it as the ground and foundation of our following Petitions Besides the frequent repetition of it ought not to be called vain since as hath been before observed Christ himself prayed thrice using the same words and certainly the best of Prayers cannot be used too often E. D. But I dare say if so be the Protestants in France made use of the Lord's-prayer at all yet they did not repeat it so often as you do F. P. I have taken notice before that you are very ready to entertain false Notions concerning our French Protestants and the same befalls you in this particular for certain it is that we always had so great a veneration for the Lord's-prayer that we believ'd all our Prayers whether publick or private were deficient and imperfect without it and therefore we did always both in the Church and at home conclude all our Prayers with the Lord's-prayer adding most commonly the Apostle's Creed and concluding all with the Solemn Blessing E. D. But when your Minister used it in the Church I supposâ— they did not repeat it often as yoâ— do but were content with saying of it once onely F. P. You are still mistaken foâ— our Ministers do repeat it most commonly thrice and sometimes more before they come down from thâ— Pulpit and according to the Discipline or Canons of our Church they are bound so to do E. D. This I confess seems strangâ— to me But let us proceed to what follows next and that cursorily too for I begin to be tiâ—ed with speaking so long to no purpose for I finâ— you will have always somethinâ— ready at hand to dash my Objections F. P. That I may not tire you altogether I shall dispatch what remains in as few words as possible The next part of the Liturgy that offers it self are some interlocutory Petitions taken out of Holy Scripture both Minister and People in these short and devout Ejaculations striving by turns who shall most move God favourably to incline and hearken to their Petitions and after these the whole Congregation do in a humble posture with united hearts and voices supplicate our heavenly Father for his grace and favour for his help and aid for his safeguard and protection for the acceptation of their Prayers and his Divine Blessing not onely for themselves but also for the King and Queen and Royal Family for the Church both Clergy and People and lastly for all Mankind and this in few words is the design and contents of the following Collects But I must not forget to observe to you that upon Wednesdays Friday and Sundays we reade the Litany E. D. Pray what is the use oâ— this Litany or what is it good for F. P. I must not it seems for feâ—… of trespassing upon your patience enlarge my self too much in representing to you the Excellency oâ— this Prayer and therefore shall teâ—… you as briefly as I can the substance and import of it there is â—… Vice nor Lust which therein wâ— do not pray to be deliver'd from nor any Grace or Virtue but wâ—… desire God to bestow it upon uâ—… and in a word whatsoever is fit â—… be pray'd for or deprecated in pâ—…lick