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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A42830	Seasonable reflections and discourses in order to the conviction & cure of the scoffing, & infidelity of a degenerate age by Jos. Glanvill ...	Glanvill, Joseph, 1636-1680.	1676 (1676)	Wing G830; ESTC R23378	24,921	115

faults but 't would be too great a diversion from our present business to discourse what I have to say of that now I may take another occasion to talk with you fully about it I shall only note at present that they suffer for others faults as much or more than for their own Many of the old Romish Priesthood got great possessions by abusing the credulity of the people at their death and the contrary humor prevails so much now that scarce any thing is given by Will to Clergy or Church uses even the little that is left is thought too much and every one almost is nimming and catching from them what he can The Fanatical and Seditious Clergy Preacht us into Rebellion and many are so set against the whole Order by it that they cannot endure any of that gown though most opposite to those principles and ways Now the case being thus as to their faculty and persons it cannot be expected that their labours should be very taking and since there is such an unhappy conjunction of so many other circumstances to indispose the people to the present Preaching it is no wonder our Preachers have not that influence and lead not the populace as some others have done C. But the non-conforming Preachers do it still though the Novelty you spoke of be over which is a sign it was not that which occasioned their so great prevalency and success A. Novelty was one of the concurring circumstances mentioned that is gone indeed but the others are revived and new added the fears of Popery the opposition to establishments the discontent the glory of being thought more godly the phancy of persecution and such like are as formerly and there are over and above the great excess of Atheism and Prophaness that the scandals they have brought on Religion have occasioned and their pity towards their Teachers whom they look on as opprest by being displaced These make them stick close and to hear their Preachers with more affection and zeal of attention which affords them advantages for fame and applause But for all this though when they declaim against Idolatry Superstition Will-worship Formality the people sigh and take on and seem to be much moved yet let them but Preach heartily and home against malice censoriousness bitter zeal lying slandering schism disobedience to lawful Governours spiritual pride waywardness fondness towards uncertain opinions and such like sins of the parties they will then find very cold entertainment of their doctrine and move no passions by it but rage and animosity against themselves and the consequents withdrawings from their meetings and bitter revilings of their persons So that indeed their Teachers how powerful soever esteem'd have not power to move them to any thing contrary to their humor and the corrupt interest of their party and therefore I never heard but of one man among them who durst venture to tell them plainly and honestly their own sins and him though otherwise the most considerable person that goes with them they worry and persecute with their bitterest reproaches and invectives D. For my part I think the way for our Ministers to bring the people back again to our Church would be to out-preach those Teachers which you so much condemn A. But who shall be judge what sort of Ministers out-preach the other The people so disposed and prepossest as I have shewn ours generally are will always judg on the side of the men that flatter them and cant in their phrases and stand in opposition to the Government so that though our Ministers spake all like Angels and all theirs brayed like Asses those people would give the power and spirituality on their side I suppose you know the Apologue the Nightingale and Cuckoo sung the Asse was judge The appeal was made and the sentence was That he could not deny but the Nightingale did well but for a plain Song he was for the Cuckoo D. They will confess indeed that there is not so much Eloquence and fine language in their Sermons but they are commended and followed for their Plainness A. Plainness is one of the best characters any Sermon or other Discourse can have and he is the Speaker that hath the art to be plain But one of the greatest faults I find with those mens Sermons is that they are not so They generally state their doctrines confusedly in words metaphorical and ambiguous and direct to practice mystically and obscurely in phrases and odd schemes of speech not understood and scarce intelligible as hath been sufficiently shewn in divers late Books These the people having been used to by them in the late times though they understand no meaning in them yet they take them to be plain at least to be so to spiritual understandings which they presume their own are Another part of their Plainness consists in homely similitudes and rude and blunt allusions accommodated to the humor of the vulgar who love such familiar Preaching as they call it which is indeed a debasing of Religion and exposing what they deliver to the scorn of those of a better relish Whereas our Ministers represent their doctrines and instructions in clearness of thought and simplicity of speech without nonsensical mysteries and words without meaning This I am sure is so in those that I hear and I hope most other regular Ministers endeavour the same D. And yet I have heard people complain that they cannot understand those Ministers A. Some would say they have been so much used to nonsence that sence is a hard thing to them Plainest things may seem difficult to those that are not accustomed to hear them Our Ministers find it necessary sometimes to shew the reasonableness of the principles and duties of the Christian religion for the assistance of those of more advanced understandings against the pretences and assaults of Atheists and Infidels and 't is impossible so to express all the matters that concern those great subjects as that every vulgar head that hath not been used to thinking and deep reasoning should presently take them No these though never so plainly discourst will require manly exercised minds or they will not be receiv'd or comprehended and Ministers must divide the word to every one his portion and not always speak to one sort If there be any thing in this complaint here I am sure is the ground which the Preachers cannot help except they could create understandings for their hearers Otherwise they indeavour profess and practise Plainness and in those subjects too as far as the nature of the thing will bear Their ornament and all they pretend as language is Plainness and the great fault they accuse the others of is want of it you may see in their books against them that they chiefly reprove and expose those men for their affectation of mysterious nonsence and words without knowledge that is for their not being intelligible and plain D. Plain Preaching doubtless is best and that it may be is the

sence Every such is a Priest to his own family that is it is his duty to teach them the great things of Religion according to the best of his skill and knowledg This is one way to provide for our families and 't is the most necessary Men had better neglect the getting their Children and Servants Bread and Cloaths than to omit the care about this greater and more needed provision 'T is noted to the honour of the holy Patriarch That he would teach his Children Timothy was taught the Scriptures from a youth and all Parents are required to bring up their Children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Were not this duty so much neglected Ministers would find their people more teachable and less uncapable of the greater and stronger truths that they yet know not more tenacious of and better setled in those that they know already and more able to shame and to resist the attempts of Gain-sayers Among all the Preaching we have this is very much needed and the great defect that is the occasion of most of our Churchmaladies lyes here We are very apt to catch at any thing that may fasten a blame on our Ministers when there is the least shew of neglect on their parts I wish we could be sensible of and reform this great one of our own C. But what think you of the Homilies Are not they very useful and fit to be read in Churches instead of so much other Preaching For my part I should like that A. The Homilies contain very good pious and wholsom instructions and doctrines and in due place and time may be used with great profit and advantage But I suppose you do not pretend to have them in to exclude all other Preaching For that would render the abilities of learned Ministers as to this part of their office useless There are many occasions which those discourses make no provision for and by such a practice the people in all likelyhood would be very much discontented if not inflamed I suppose therefore you mean not that the Homilies should thrust out all other Preaching but that in some places and times they might be profitably used C. No I think it would be well if they were generally enjoyn'd and such others added to them as should be thought seasonable and fit A. I have as great a reverence for that Book as you and as great a sense of the inconveniences that arise from the defects of many Preachers But we must not always judge of things as they are nakedly in their natures but circumstances must be weigh'd Publick Governours are not only to consider the goodness but expediency and in reference to a due judgment in that many extrinsecal matters are to be taken into the account Now as our case is we have blessed be God plenty of learn'd and most excellent Preachers as many I believe as any Age or Nation ever had Those have bestowed much time pains and cost for the furnishing themselves with abilities for the Pulpit and after all to suppress their excellent and useful labours and to set them upon the same level with those that can but read would be a great discouragement to them and loss to the Church it would dishearten and divert young Students in the Universities be a great damp upon learning and in all likelyhood destroy the glory of those venerable Fountains of Piety and Literature Besides which the People you know are so prejudiced that it would possess them with rage against their Governours and contempt of their Ministers fill the Conventicles and 't is to be fear'd make our breaches and divisions incurable So that certainly you are not in earnest in this or if you are I suppose there are but very few of your mind I have heard some talk indeed that they thought it might do well if only some select men in every Diocess and those to be seated in the most eminent places should be allow'd to Preach and the fame enjoyned to make every year so many Sermons to be deliver'd to the Bishop as in the whole should come to fifty two besides some for the anniversary dayes that a Volume of those Sermons should be printed yearly That each Minister of those not licensed to Preach their own should have a Copy and no more be printed than would suffice for them That they should read or recite one of these by heart every Sunday till they should arrive to such Age and Ability as to be thought fit to be intrusted with the instructing the people with their own Sermons What this would do and how practicable it is I shall not pretend to determine It looks I confess plausibly enough But I am no proposer of new projects these matters must be left to our Governours and I mention this only by the by C. You are resolv'd to have your own opinion in all things we have talked on and you shall for me But notwithstanding all you have said I shall not be persuaded to have so good an opinion of Preaching as you seem to have till I have reason to think that the Preachers believe their own Doctrines A. By that you seem to intimate that you think they do not A very hard thought that should not be entertain'd lightly What any man believes we cannot tell but by his professions and the Clergy make zealous and earnest profession of the Christian truths and therefore 't is great injustice and uncharitableness to judge otherwise of them except upon clear evidence Charity thinketh no evil it makes the best and most candid interpretations of things that are capable of wrong construction But to judg and surmise evil where there is no appearance of it this is to exercise a lawless and brutish force upon the names of men and to rejoyce in iniquity as the Apostle speaks 1 Cor. 1. 13. No ones reputation can be safe from any aspersion if men may take this lewd liberty of fastening the worst they can phancy on them so that except you can make out what you say which I am sure you cannot you manifestly incurr the guilt of being an accuser of the Brethren To asperse any private Christian in this manner is a great sin how much more is it so to slander an whole order of publick persons that bear a Sacred Character For you do not only injure them in their persons but mischief others by it whom by such reproaches you prejudice against them and so hinder the good that otherwise they might do by their labours On which account the reputation of Ministers is and ought to be dear to those that are truly honest and conscientious and where men love to pickeer and to find faults with Ministers 't is a plain case that they have some corrupt byas that sways them in those Censures C. For my part I thank God I have none But by their fruits ye shall know them Their actions preach contrary to their Sermons and are too plain indications of