enough in the one nor Room enough in the other for more of the Labours of the Author of Quakerism No Christianity But he thanks me that I have put one Argument into his Mouth viz. Wherefore hath W. P. made such a Bussie against Mr. Hicks and me seeing he hath not toucht or much less answer'd the far greater part of my first Book Oh that J. Faldo would but learn to write Truth and not cover great Weakness and Baleness with so much Vntruth Have I not answered to every Charge in the first Book Examin'd 2 3 4 or 5. of his Witnesses at a time to each Charge that is Testimonies out of our Friends Books he brought to justifie it It seems then that my not fully Answering of his first Book is one Reason why he hath hitherto declin'd Publishing something against my second but had the Man been of this Mind before doubtless he would never have writ a Second But what saith J. F. to my second Book wherein I charge him in Point of Fact with so many horrid Abuses or our Principles and Writings Not one word unless that it is a considerable Book for Railing Confidence abusing Authors Impertinences Falshoods and unfaithful Giâ—â—ng what I pretend to confute What sence can be had against such a Flail Is this through the aboundings of the Man's Mâ—desty Am I not like to be cur'd of my Confidence by a Curb made up of such Links Certainly unless J. Faldo hath as little Brains as this Character of my Book shows him to have of Honesty he cannot think tkis Entertainment should prevail with me to step over the Kennel to meet such A If ever Man was wrong'd I am in that Expression though his Saying and Not Proving helps it a little I will at present overlook all but the last Ill Quality he fastens upon my Rejoynder and that is Not fairly citing his Reply I think I may say I have quoted the better half of his Reply into my Rejoynder and that with such Distinction as any Capacity may discern his Matter from mine And where he hath quoted One Line of mine I have quoted Three of his But I cannot think this the Way to Carb my Confidence or to Act the Modest Man To Charge and Not Prove Nay to Overlook so much Charg'd and Proved against him in my Rejoynder That is Vnfairly Citing us grosly Perverting what is cited Adding or Diminishing as best answer'd his Ends overlooking my Matter Arguments and evading the Strength of most of what he cited Charging Consequences unfairly drawn upon us for our Principles and abusing our Writings to maintain that Abuse which is not only prov'd in the Body of the Discourse but summ'd up at the End of my Rejoynder to help the Readers Memory And so far hath the Man been from Defending himself Doâ—trinally that he suffers himself to remain without all Defence against my Charges But he hath told us very seasonably His farther Writing is not deem'd Convenient or Satisfactory A great deal of Wiâ—dom believe me in the Dâ—emers and a great â—hare of Submission in tâ—is Adversary I confess it is no Argument to do Indiscretly a third time because a Man hath done so twice before Had I return'd him a Seurrilousc Frothy Evasive Pamphlet like his Reply to his great Book I should have blam'd my self not him but I did conscientiously consider it and bestow'd a large grave Discourse upon it faithfully citing and I hope as fully enervating it But to this he objects that seems the Strength of his Sheet if there be any in it that is That he made 12 Citations out of our own Books and brought 13 Texts of â—cripture to prove one Point of many that I took buâ— 2 of each which granted makes nothing against me but proves himself Weak to say no worse For either each of them he brought was pertinent or not If not then his urging them calls him Impertinent If pertinent I answer'd the Law that saith In the Mouth of two Witnesses c. for I examin'd Two I thought of his Considerablâ—st and sound them nothing to his Purpose but that he had aggravated his Evil by grosly Abusing our Books to prove his Infamous Charge Now I would fain know if it became not J. Faldo rather to have shown how weakly I invalidated his Evidence and prov'd him as Abuser of our Words then to tell the World I took but Two into Consideration for if he be gone upon them he is gone upon all for they are not a Jot more to his Purpose if so much as those examin'd And I did not holy my self oblieged to answer every impertinent Line in his Book If I skipt the Strength of his Evidence or that those I left had something not exprest or implyed in the other it had been proper for him to have particularly and expresly excepted against me all which he not doing his Objection is frivolous and amounts to no more then a mean Shuffle But he tells the World That also a whole Chapter of Apostolical Inspirations lye at my Door untoucht and that they may judge at what rate I have answer'd his Book Poor Man Is this all he can do after he hath thought fit to give us a second Book Must his first be his Asylum still Why did he not tell T. H. and W K. so to excuse his coming to Barbican Is he for Disputing notwithstanding and yet not for Writing It seems then that it is not deem'd Inconvenient to Dispute but Write Well! But why will J. Faldo drop things against himself and as he terms it put Instances in my Mouth to prove him a most Disingenuous and Impudent Person for did I not tell him That what concern'd us upon the Point of Inspiration I had treated at large else where and there was no need of a Repetition Now hath he shown or attempted an Enervation of that Nothing less Or that we were concern'd in that more then in his 4th Chapter No such Matter Or hath he given us one Reason why I ought to have consider'd it Or dare he say the other contain'd not the Matter of it What more can we say to a Man of this Fore-head I told him of Scores of Passages given by him under our Name he had not so much as cited Person or Book for as well as abundance willfully abused by him that he did cite To all which he is as mute as if I had never accused him or he had nothing to say in his own Vindication Is his Recrimination suppose a Reason for it in its place a valid Answer Would he have thought this enough to his two Books How easily could we have told J. F. Thou hast abused our Religion Books and Persons but would he have accepted this as a sufficient Answer or Rejoynder He tells the World of our Denying the Man's Nature or Man Chirst Jesus and brings a Company of wrested and misapplyed Sentences to vail his Abuse from the
and that a considerable Book lay at his Door unanswer'd To this he gives me several Returns worth noting for something or other one is this That he perfectly knows the Contrary To what That I have twice defended our Belief The Quibble is here I have twice Writ but not twice Defended notable but he goes of late for a Critick however who say so John Faldo Doth he prove as well as say No such matter He would not be mistaken yet in asserting he transcends for he further tells us That I have not overthrown one Line of his books in which as he explicitely proves his own Impudence and Ostentation so implicitely he calls many far from Quakerism as he terms it Fools or Knaves for theâ—r contrary Judgment But to the next Reason My Prints have confirmed him which though no Evidence to others of the Reasonableness of his Belief yet a great one to me that that Scripture is fulfilling upon him Wicked Men shall wax worse and worse But this is not all He tells us That it is not a Considerable Book Who expeâ—ted J. Faldo should say any other But doth he not hold himself oblieged to help others to the same Creed if his Heat be any better then Mercenary should he not endeavour to disintangle those that otherwise opinionate of the Matter Doubtless he thinks it not less deserving his Pains then those his first Book pretended to refute If he doth he would have done well to point in what if he doth not why doth he not answer me as well as them Or why did he begin at all if he intended no to make good what he said But I would not be thoâ—gâ—t to imitate Pharaoh's putting the People to make Brick without Straw by urging him to defend that which indeed is indefensible Only it is worth our Notice that the Book is not considerable but prethee why I think so Ergo what It is not considerable This Way of arguing calls J. Faldo an Idle Meddler for ever writing an Half-Crown or Three Shillings Book to terminate here My Adversary is not Considâ—rable So much Wit Folly or Shuffle call it what he will would have saved him much Brain-work in the beginning but it may do the Man some good Folâ—s â—ay so of Experience dear bought and better Rep 〈…〉 late then never though its commonly judg'd to be a Repentance per force Well but ther 's more behind viz. Whatever Qualities my last Book had he tells me it is more then I knew that ever he saw it He is sure I never laid it at his Door by sending one of them to him If he had said by receiving one of them it had past him for I might have sent it it might have many ways miscarried But I will not press him with this nor talk either of Gnosticks or Over-Lashers to Lash him with And that I may right my self and shew him how willing I was it should lie at his Door I did to the best of my remembrance order him one and if it came not to his hand it neither accuseth me nor excuseth him J. Faldo sent me none of his and I think I never gave that for a Reason why either of them lay at my Door But it seems J. Faldo hath lately been at Bedlam and one would think so by the Story he tells an Impertinent one it is Some Body said something of W. P. c. but Who he knows not here is the Upshot What I should say I know not for he neither directs me to the Person nor House So I must be contented to leave it as I found it with J. Faldo and Bedlam a Place that suits the Relation He hath not yet done My Book is said to be printed in 1673. and it stuck in the Birth till many Months were past of the Year 1674. This hits the Book in the Head provided the Title-Page may stand for one But how doth J. Faldo know it stook so many Moneths in 1674 Which way came he so well acquainted with the Secrets of the Press But let us see what this Objection amounts to The Title is either printed first or last If first say in 73. would he have the Printer foresee all those Difficulties that may obstruct the coming forth of the Book till 74. in order to set down 73 74 This were to make a Gnostick of him with a Witness or if he doth not his Book shall be charg'd with an Vntruth If the Title be printed last which I suppose is not common say in 74. and he sets down 74. he tells an Vntruth of the Book though not of the Title Should the Printer then have set it down 73 74. because some of the Book was printed in 73. this had been an Vntruth respecting the Title Page for that was all and only printed in 74. That ever a man that loved Reputation at the rate they that know him say he doth should be so Idle in Print Suppose his Observation true Is the Book therefore not Considerable or doth it not lye at his Door or is W. P. to be blamed which is the Business in hand What he would be at I know not unless he design'd to shew that he is a Critick and well skill'd in Annals but I am of Opinion that Baronius after the old Proverb may sleep in a whole Skin for all J. Faldo's Attempts His next Reason for not giving my Rejoynder any Return is as he sayes elsewhere Magnipotent I have two Thousand Pounds per ann in Possession as reported I may waste Paper but he Alas for him must write no more then is deem'd Convenient and Satisfactory I perceive that J. Faldo is govern'd much by Reports and that may be one Reasen why the Man reports so much Vntruth But if he will make the Report good I will give him a Years Rent and let him waste Paper or waste it in Paper and then call it an Answer to W. P. if he pleaseth I observe that his Want of it is the Reason of his not being a better Friend to the Printer for his words that He must write no more then what is deemed convenient imply that had he wherewithal he might Write and Waste and Waste and Write But what is the true English of this Apologetical Sentence It is to be suspected this viz. I must write no more then can be sold The Book-sellers do not deem more of my Writings Convenient and Satisfactory For I cannot believe that J. F. could not write what he deems both Convenient and Satisfactory But what is become of that greedy Appetite in Learned and Vnlearned after his Books not only certified by the Book-sellers but with a most nauseous Self Glorying proclaimed by himself in his Vindication For my part I know not what else to infer from all this then that his Books are become a Drug at least they so far stick undigested in the Peoples Stomachs if not unsold in the Booksellers Shops as there is neither Appetite
86. My Answer pag. 250. 6. That the Quakers mean by the Vail that is over People their Belief of the Man Christ Jesus born of the Virgin Mary to be now existing in Heaven Ibid. p. 87. Vind. p. 93. My Answer pag. 251 252. Rejoynd pag. 395 396. 7. I take occasion to censure mens adding their Comments and Glosses fram'd from Study TO any part of the Scripture and J. Faldo cites me as complaining of such as frame them from the Study OF the Scriptures as if Studying OF the Scriptures and mens Adding their own Glosses TO the Scriptures were one and the some thing Vind. pag. 42 43. My Rejoynd p. 159. 8. From E. Burrough's making the Light of Christ within to be one in Nature with the Spirit of Christ J. Faldo infers That the Quakers hold the Soul to be God as if that had been said of the Soul which was said to the Light of Christ shining in the Soul or that they were Synonymous Vind. from p. 75. to 87. Rejoyndr p. 348 349 350. 9. Because E. B. rejected that Carnal Notion that confines the Infinite Omnipresent God to a Residence only above the Stars he makes no Difficulty of inferring that we deny the Manhood of Christ Jesus As most absurd as base Q. no C. p. 9 10. My Answer p. 14. Vind p. 9. Rejoynd p. 420. 10. From our affirming that such a kind of Reading of Scripture as the Pharisees used and to those Ends makes men harder to be wrought upon to true Conversion then the Heathen J. Faldo infers that reading the Scriptures and getting Knowledge thence puts Men into a worse Condition then the Heathen and that there 's scarcely anything more Dangerous then reading the Scriptures Yea he accuseth us of Charging the Miscarriages of Mens Souls on the Knowledge the Scripture by God's Blessing both convey Vind. p. 21 37. Rejoynd p. 126 127 425. Thus much and I wish here had been no occasion for this to evidence the false and unworthy Practice of J. Faldo against the Writings and Sayings of our Friends in order to compass his Designes I shall now give some touch upon his Confidence since he hath intituled me to an unparallel'd share and counts himself the fit Person to Curb me for it J. Faldo began with us in a great Book called Quakerism No Christianity I answered him in a Book intitled Quakerism a New Nickname for Old Christianity against this he put forth his Vindication unto which I made my Rejoynder consisting of TWENTY THREE CHAPTERS in which I vindicated our Principles striping them of those frightful Vizards and hateful Disguises he put upon them confirm'd them by many Scriptures and Reasons and to compleat our Defence produc'd iin favor of the whole above TWO HUNDRED TESTIMONIES out of both ancient and modern Authors Besides all this I faulted his Conduct and Behaviour in this Controversie in above FOUR HUNDRED PARTICULARS and that under distinct Sections most of which were not less unworthy of a good Christian yea an honest Heathen I will say of any fair Controvertist then the Ten I just now mention'd Notwithstanding this great Obligation upon him either to answer my Book or ente Muter to any farther Proceed in this Debate in my Absence at the first Barbican Meeting beâ—ore a great Concurse of People after T. Hicks had won the Goal by running Alone the Man as one in Love with such Romance-Trophys starts up like some Herald at Arms bids Defiance to the Quakers and their Religion gives forth his Challenge to W. Penn to dispute him I that he would and instead of his Glove flung a Paper to bind it which when all came to all was but some of the Contents of his first Book twice largely answered and because no farther Notice was taken of this Giant partly by not receiving his Paper so soon as might expect and partly by reason of these other Contests that claim Precedency That he might not be thought NoBody when so many strove to be Some-Body against us he prints it without all consideration had to my Rejoynder or so much as an Apology for his Silence to it which at least had become a Modest Person to give After all this can any man think J. Faldo Bashful or one that is so out of Love with Confidence in himself as that he is fit to Curb it in others Me thinks he should not believe that repetitious Farthing or Half-penny Paper feat enough toi excuse him or so sufficient to acquit him of old Debts as that without any Breach of Modesty or common Honesty he might encrease his former Score by fresh Charges It is but reasonable that he should make good what he hath done first and not that we should gratifie every importinent tautological Humor of J. F. But what saith John Faldo to this part of my Answer to his Challenge viz. But that I may acquit my self of that Duty incumbent on me for the Truth I do hereby signifie That in as much as the Controversie depending between T. Hicks c. and us takes in the most of the particulars of his Charge we freely consent that he should come in with them for a Share as Confederate in the same work and use his utmost Abilities to maintain his Accusations And if in any thing his Charge is singular we shall be ready to hear and fairly debate it at the same Meeting or Meetings to avoid fresh and unnessary Contests as much as justly may be To this he thus Replieth 1. I must fall into a Confederacy which the Antipaedo-baptists in the same Work Hold a little Mr. Penn If I have my Option I must deal with you singly More confuse rather then assist But it seems I must be wholely at your Appointment for although you had consented that in your Contest about Mr. Hicks's Dialogues there should four of each Party have Liberty to speak yet I no sooner began to oppose you being desired to be one of the four but you told me you were not to dispute with me but Mr. Hicks and call'd to T. Hicks and were follow'd by the Quakers Clamours of Hicks Hicks which answer'd your End and forc'd my Silence Contradiction and Falshood make up this Paragraph Was he not of the Confederacy when he tells us himself that he was not only a Party with them but One of the four pitcht upon to mannage their Cause But if he have his Option he must deal with me singly It is time for him indeed who hath been a double-dealing so long But certainly if the man were not more then ordinarily fond of hearing himself talk or extravagantly ambitious of a single Crown he would be contented with a Partner but this Option holds no Concord with his Adoption into the Confederacy He hath begun already as one of the four what hinders that he should not continue so But he thinks that more then one confounds rather then assists If so what made T. Hicks have three to help
William Penn's RETURN To John Faldo's REPLY CALLED A Curb for William Penn's Confidence c. Writ in Defence of his Answer to John Faldo's Printed Challenge MY Answer to J. Faldo's Challenge was in terms so Modest that no man not bent to be Abusive and resolv'd against all Candor and Moderation could have taken such Pains as he hath done to bedirt it Would I so ill bestow my Time I could well nigh fill as great a Compass with the Hard Names he flings upon it The Refuge and Practice of Petulant and Empty Adverâ—aries His Title charges it with False Inf 〈…〉 a 〈…〉 s and Juglings I seriously proâ—ess I never intended any thing with more Trâ—th Plainness and Softness then that short Answer And truly that which renders this Usage at any time â—neasie is the fastening unjustly that Character upon me my Friends which is most deservedly their own thereby concealing and securing the Offender and substituting the Innocent in his room to the Deceiving of the Simple and exposing us to the Bate of the rude and ignorant Multitude But it is our Lot and mine at this time more particularly I was treated at another rate whilst I could cry Hosanna to his Order But let us hear what he sayes to prove that my Answer contains fâ—lse Insinuations and Juglings I told him That it was unfairly done of him to chuse the Barbican-Meeting to divulge his Challenge to me which I had receiv'd no notice of To this he replies That the Meeting was occasion'd by the Quakers Appeal Which beside that it is nothing to the Purpose is a great Untruth Did we occasion any Meeting wherein we were concerned to be present without our Notice and Consent either as to Matter or Manner Time or Place taking the word Occasion in the common Acceptation of it No-body surely but J. Faldo and such Prejudgers can think so For Shame be Just But he believes such a Critical Season seldom happens wherein both G. W. and I before so long a Season out of the Reach of so publick a Concern What then Therefore were we not then out of Reach What would he be at Lamentable Weakness Is this to justifie his Cowardly Brags I will call them so now since softer Terms fair'd so ill at his hands But let J. F know that for that Glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ our Lord he with as much Envy as Untruth sâ—ggests us to deny we are frequently engaged in remote Places and that for Weeks and sometimes Moneths where no Letters can be sent to us with any previous Knowledge where to find us insomuch as that our nearest and dearest Relations may have taken their Leave of this World and exchanged their House for Grave before our Return or Knowledge of their Condition which might have better beeâ— considered by this Stipendiary Resident who though he gets more Money by it is not exposed to that and many other Hardships But to palliate the Injust Procedure of the Baptists against us at their first Barbican-Meeting he tells us a Tail of G. Whitehead's surprizing him with a Dispute upon three dayes Notice which he saith was not according to the Agreement made betwixt him and some of our Friends to wit Mutual Consent which granted to him neither helps the Baptists nor hurts us for first G. Whitehead went principally to a Meeting of our Friends and if he might have Opportunity to allay the Heat of this Vapouring Adversary 2dly It was so far left with J. Faldo either to accept or reject as that it was most remote from the Thoughts of G. W. upon his Refusal to assemble the Inhabitants of the Place and in his Absence exclaim both against his Faith and Praâ—tice our manifest Suffering from T. Hicks and his Confederates 3dly There can be nothing well falser then his insinuating the Issue of that Mâ—eting to have been his Qâ—iet from the Quakers if by Quiet he understands any Fear upon them from his Force of Argument to encounter him since he could neither recover our half Proselyte as he is pleased to call that Person once a Hearer of him nor did he reâ—t one Moneth without a fair offer of another Meeting from some of our Friends near the Place of his Residence which as I am informed he declined I blame him not for doing so But suppose G. W. was as culpable as he represents him who so little deserved his Reflection how doth this excuse T. Hicks or extenuate his own Injustice who without any Notice given to G. W. or my self did so publickly at Barbican in our Absence abuse the one and challenge forth the other in Defence of himself and Friends from a Charge then exhibited by him against our Faith and Principles suggesting to the Auditory as if what were in Reality but his own crooked Consequences detested of us had been the express Articles of our Creed If yet he can presume to believe himself Modest Just or Christian his Case is desperate and I heartily pitty his Mistake But he faults me for saying He could not but know of my being at a great Distance telling me That I either make him an Extraordinary Gnostick or my self such an Over-Lasher as needs to have my words well measured after me Truly if J. Faldo hath the Doing of it I am sure to be wronged unless he hath changed his Wont How near a kin he is to the Gnosticks in other Respects I will not undertake to determine only if what Epiphamus writes of their Self Conceit be true J. F. has printed himself one of the Extraordinariest Gnosticks of this Age But I will stand to my words that he must needs know of my Absence for they that gave him notice of the Meeting being some of the Persons concern'd might also inform him that I was at a great distance they receiving that Answer But left he should deny all this as probaâ—le as it is the Prolocutor's Gloss upon the Word EAST doth the Business to an Hairs breadth for unless J. Faldo's Ears happen like J. Ives's to be all of a sudden thick of Hearing or to have as great an Impediment as T. Hick's Tongue that is in Cases unpleasant to them he could not but observe that W. K. insinuated as if I had Voyag'd to the East-Land or the East-Indies too far for the Noise of J. Faldo's Charge to be heard as Empty as it was But I must not forget and yet take no Delight to remember that Grave Person purposely left out England joyn'd to East in the Letter that he might better break his Jest But be it as it will I cannot but return J. Faldo an Allusion in his first Book it may be not in the very Words yet the same Sense viz. That he doth with me in this as nicely and unjustly as some Physitians who strictly prohibit that to their Patients they eat themselves with great Gusto I further told him as he observes that I had twice Defended our Faith in Print against him