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B11947 A discours hapned. Betwene an hermite called Nicephorus & a yong louer called Tristan, who for that his Mistresse Petronilla entred into religion would faine become an hermite. All faithfullie dravven out of the historie of Petronilla, composed in French by the Right Reuerend Father in God Iohn Peter Camus Bishop of Belley. And translated into English by P.S.P.; Petronille. English Camus, Jean-Pierre, 1584-1652.; P. S. P., fl. 1630. 1630 (1630) STC 4551; ESTC S116152 62,696 183

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truely too milde which doth iniustly flatter their disorder and relaxation For mitigation doth presuppose some temperature of austeritie in the rule by Apostolicall authoritie But not so manifest infraction of the vowes of obedience and pouertie as that which is knowne to be and which the holy sea did neuer authorize In like manner there are Hermites vacabonds voluntaries who haue neither house nor home children of Belial who will haue no yoke nor subiection who liue after their owne fancie and as the Psalmist saith who do walke in their owne desires passe their liues according the inconstant affection of their harts Cloudes vvithout vvater Ep. Iudae carried about of vvindes and for whom the tempest of darknesse is reserued perpetuall vnquietnesse in punishment of their instabilitie These kind of people are Hermites only by habit not by life by apparence and not by effect people without approbatiō slaues to their proper wills and not only farr from the state of perfectiō but also from the perfection of their estate if a condition so vncertaine so irregular may be called an estate But there are other Hermites who are in the stabilitie of a setled life true followers and children of those first Anacorites who like shining starrs lightned the heauen of the primitiue Church by the liuely beames of their holy vertues whose memorie shall neuer perish but will be still cōserued freshe in the very decline of time and in the old age of the world They are men that stick like Iuie to the stock wall of the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchie and like the vigne that ioyne fast to the elme tree Those mē do sequester themselues from the world by a locall solitude to the end to harken more attentiuely in the mentall solitude that which God shall speake to their harts They haue chosen the best part with Marie but in that sort that when the necessitie of the neighbour or the seruice of the Church doth call them they imitate these wise maydens as said that ancient Hermite who neuer departed their fathers house but to carrie water when their neighbours house was surprised with fier Charitie necessitie being the only two causes which might and ought iustly interrupt the sweet repose of their silence These Hermites are absolutelie and entirelie subiect to the Ordinaries who are the Bishops they may be iudged by their Officialls they are subiect to the visits of their Generall Vicars and Archdeacons and they acknowledge also for their Superiours Pastours the Pastours in whose Parishesse are situated their Hermitages These do receiue their holy habit at the hands of the Prelats or of such as are deputed by them to cloath them with the Ecclesiasticall benedictions ceremonies they goe not out of the Diocese without leaue they establish themselues in their dwellings with the permissiō leaue of the Bishops and Pastours also with the cōsent A good example for Regulars of the neighbouring people they do not begg but with the licence of the Pastours in somme they depend in all things of their wills If they be Priests they make the two solemne vowes annexed to holy orders betwene the hands of the most Reuerend Bishop who doth consecrat them which are the vowes of chastitie and obedience and that they may not loose also the merit of the vow of pouertie besids the practise which they make of it by begging many of them do vow it betwene the hands of the Prelats or of their Officers bereauing themselues of all proprietie and reseruing but the simple vse of the almes which are giuen them readie to quitt the same at the first command of those whom the heauēs hath giuen them for Superiours What think you Sir are those men in the state of perfection to be acquired as are the Conuentuall friars I would think they are quoth Tristan but the Conuentualls do not think it who do not put the state of perfection in the vowes only but do require besids that they be made vnder some of the Rules approued by the Church Truely quoth the Hermite that is extreme rigour but I pray you what better rule can wee haue then that of the Scripture then the examples of the Patriarches Prophets who liued in the wildernesse then that of our Sauiour fasting in the desert transfiguring himselfe vpon mōt Thabor and passing a great part of his life vpon the most retired mountaines then that of his fore-runner saint Iohn Baptist then that of saint Paul the first Hermite of great saint Anthonie of saint Hilarion in somme of so many thousand Anacoretes whose names writtē in the booke of life are glorious in heauen and blessed on earthe Can any man doubt but these excellent Anacoretes were in the state of perfection although they did not make the three vowes vnder any rule In good sooth a man must haue extraordinarie patience to indure these inequalities and to speake with the sacred Amante The children of my mother fought against me put me in the gard of the vignes It did not appertaine but to S. Paul to diuulge his owne proper praises with good grace because he did know how to referr all very properly to God when he said Not I but the grace of God in me by vvhich I am that which I am but I did menage it well in such sort as it was not inutile in my hands I dare neuerthelesse praise my soule in God as saith the Psalmist to the end to reioice the curteous and tell you that if so be the Regulars do say they are themselues in the state of perfection for hauing made the three vowes vnder a certaine Rule betwene the hāds of their Superiours The Superiours of Regulars are but simple Priests who are but simple Priests I think to haue right to say the same hauing receiued my habit by the hands of a Bishop made profession of the same vowes betwene his hands vnder such rules Constitutions as pleased his charitie to prescribe vnto me and hauing so submitted my will to his that I haue no other desire but to obey him When he bids me goe I goe when he bids me come I come shuning no occasion by his commaundement to do seruice according my power to the sheepe of his folde with the permission of the Reuerend Pastours In this sort I do visite the sick in these quarters I confesse those that come to me being for that purpose approued by the Ordinarie Regulars should haue the approbation of the Bishops I do administer to them the holy Eucharist when they come to the Oratorie of this house I goe from village to village teaching the Christian doctrine to children Catechising the rude Euāgelizing the poore instructing the great ones making exhortations to them according the tallent which God gaue me If in consequēs of this they do me some good it is according the Apostle to reepe temporall things hauing sowen spirituall things and what
A DISCOVRS HAPNED BETWENE AN HERMITE called Nicephorus a yong louer called Tristan who for that his Mistresse Petronilla entred into Religion would faine become an Hermite All faithfullie dravven out of the Historie of Petronilla composed in French by the Right Reuerend Father in God IOHN PETER CAMVS Bishop of Belley And Translated into English by P. S. P. Printed with Permission 1630. Academioe Gantabrigiensis Liber TO THE CATHOLIKES of Irland RENOWNED Catholikes the Histoire of Petronilla Coming to my hands composed by the Right Reuerend Father in God Iohn Peter Camus Bishop of Belley a man of Knovvne learning eminent He vvrate many bookes pietie of an Apostolicall life the fancie tooke me to imploy some time in the reading of it not doubting but coming from so famous an Authour I should find some thing in it worth my labour Going then forward in the reading therof amongst many other good things I lighted vpon this Treatise which when I considered I said thus to my self it might be thought that this man had reuelation or some notice giuen him of the emulation variāce which is betweene the Hierarchicall Clergie and the Regulars in Irland that in consequens therof he framed this Discours For it is said that the Regulars there thinking therby to magnifie and extoll themselues for I know no other reason they can haue for it make no conscience nor scrupule both in their publike sermons and in their priuat cōuersations amōgst you to say and affirme that Priests are but meere Seculars that thēselues are true Pastours that it belongs to them only to be called Fathers that they are the choice and best part of the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchie which is more absurd that their Regular Superiours are more worthy then Bishops All which assertions manifestly false and ill becoming men whose institution is chiefely grounded in humilitie and contempt of worldly honour and respects being touched and discussed in this Treatise I thought in my loue and naturall affection towards you my deere Country men that I was in a manner bound fearing these things should giue you some erronious impressions to impart it vnto you Wherupon I tooke the paines to translate it out of French into English to haue it printed And if I shall vnderstand that it takes effect cause the Delinquēts reflect vpon their errour herin vpon that saying of S. Iames the Apostle If any man think himself to be Religious Iac. 5. v. 26 not bridling his tongue but seducing his hart this mans Religion is vaine then will I think my labour well imployed And that which is most to be desired of them is that they doe consider first that such assertions and comparisons doe more hurt then good do rather destroy then edifie rather peruert then conuert the people from their euill courses rather breede hate enuie then loue or charitie and secondly that they consider that Priesthood which is the fontaine and fondation of all Ecclesiasticàll functions is the same in Secular Priests as they terme them and in Regulars whence Priests may iustlie say to the Regulars with saint Paul that if they be Hebrewes so are they if they be 2. Cor. 11. v. 22. Israëlites soe are they if they be the seede of Abraham so are they if they be Ministers of CHRIST so are they yea more that they are their elders and haue higher offices and dignities in the Church then they haue And for you worthy champions I shall desire you not to be scandalized to see one Catholike write against an other beleeuing that Catholikes as Catholikes doe agree in matters of Faith but as men that they may varie in other opinions S. Peter and S. Paul S. Austin Gal. 3. Act. 15. Hieron ep 86. Aug. ep 8 sequ Eus lib. 5. cap. 24. 25 Bedal 3. Histor Angl. cap. 24. 25. lib. 5. c. 16. Dan. 20. and S. Hierome disagreed in some opinions without breach of fayth or charitie About the obseruation of Easter there was great debate betwixt Saincts Saincts till the Church decided the controuersie yea Angels haue dissented in opinions But this you may note in this controuersie that learned Doctours in these Countries and some of them Religious men with whom I did cōfer of the same do much admeere that the Regulars in Irland do cōtest with the Clergie for the said points wheras in no Catholike Countries do the Regulars speake of the like but cōtaine themselues within the precinct of their Monasteries and the obseruance of their Rules which teach the quit contrarie of all that they doe in this kind And if they will alleage that hauing no Monasteries in Irlād they must goe vp downe amongst you like other Priests me thinks they should the lesse claime any perfection or respect ouer other Priests and my warrant for this is S. Hierome who speaking of such Monks and Religious men saith Sicut piscis extra aquam caret vita sic Monachus extra Monasterium As fish being out of the water doth want life so doth a Monke or Religious man being out of his Monasterie For the life of a Religious man as such is to obserue his Rules and keepe his vowes which he cannot doe so well if he do it at all being cóuersant in the world not doing it what prerogatiue can he claime ouer others To conclude if the Regulars be true Pastours as is aboue said how can they excuse themselues that they take no more care of their flock then some odd times like passingers to preach vnto them God knowes with litle fruict Who will not say but the good Priest is more like to be the true Pastour Who giueth his life for his sheepe seruing them not by starts but all the yeere long by day and by night in heate and in cold in raine and in tempest with much miserie litle profit Lastly who can beleeue that the Regulars are true or proper Pastours whenas they cannot take any such chardge vpon them if first they be not dispensed with all in their vovves Add that in Catholike Countries where all Clergie men get their due they cannot preach nor Minister any Sacrament out of their owne Conuents without the expresse leaue of the Bishop of the Diocese and of the Pastour of the place conformable to the Councell Sess 24. of Trent Howsoeuer they will answere to all these things I make no doubt but after their accustomed manner some of them vvill say for I Knovv that many good men amongst them doe not approue such things that he is no frend of Religious men that doth propound them But God is my vvitnesse I do honour respect all Religious men and vvish all others to do the same as long as they containe themselues vvithin the limits of their Rules that they do not prefer the honour of their order as many seeme to doe to the honour and seruice of God to vvhose diuine protection I