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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20361	A true report of all the doynges at the assembly co[n]cernyng matters of religion, lately holden at Poyssy in Fraunce. Written in Latine by Mayster Nicholas Gallasius, minister of the Frenche Churche in London, and then present, [and] one of the disputers in the same, translated into English, by I. D.... Seen and allowed accordyng to the order appoynted by the Queenes Maiesties iniunctions; True report of all the doynges at the assembly concernyng matters of religion, lately holden at Poyssy in Fraunce.	Des Gallars, Nicolas, ca. 1520-ca. 1580.	1561 (1561)	STC 6776; ESTC S110901	50,348	138

neither if any manne should ryse from death would they beleue him Or howe did they which had the writings of the Apostles onely when neyther bookes nor commentaries were written of thesame But whereas my Lord Cardinall woulde haue that taken for an Apostolike tradition whiche hathe bene receiued of the church at al times in all places and of al men I see not howe these iii. pointes maie be proued For how great diuersitie shal we find in the bookes of auncient fathers yea and euen in the verye articles of oure faith If these wordes should be weyed at all tymes and of all men wher shall we beginn but at the Apostolike church Who shall be firste in order but onely the Apostles Whose liues and doings are partly faithfully written by Luke and partly gathered out of their owne writinges To be shorte we returne at the last to the first foundatiō of the scriptures sith all truthe came from god who cōmaunded the prophets and Apostles to bee interpreters messengers of oure saluation In the meane time we dooe not reiecte the councels of the fathers as farre as they be confirmed with the testimonies of the holye scripture For them as Austine sayeth the holy●… ghost hath so tempered that it which●… in some place is obscurely spoken in some other is expressed more plainlye and more at large And that rule chiefly amonges others he geueth whereb●… we may vnderstande the scriptures i●… that booke whiche he wrote of christia●… doctrine yet there remaineth som●… doubt in this question Some mē hau●… thought that the will of God in these thinges whiche pertaine to oure saluation is not fullye declared in those writinges whiche the Prophetes and Apostles haue lefte vnto vs. Whiche doubte if it should take any place what a gap wer ther opened to all mischefe And certes this was the breache by the which Sathan first pearced into the vine yard of the lord to destroy it God truely before the tune of Moyses with visiōs reuelatiōs directed his church in like maner yeapostles before thei put theyr doctrine in writīg taught yesame by worde of mouth But because the nūber of men encreasing their noughtynesse encreased also the lorde would y● this doctrine shoulde bee contayned in writinges and monumentes Whiche might be vnderstoode and perceiued of al men why so that he might confoūd the impudence and rashnesse of suche as wil set foorth cloke their dreames with the name of tradition reuelation and custome But if the doctrine of god be written onely in some part to what purpose is this remedy Truely it can not be so Iohn spake of the scriptures when he sayeth that those things which are written are written to that ende that we beleuing them may haue life euerlasting Iohn xx ●… ●…xi whiche he had falslye sayde yf thei themselues had concealed any doctrine necessary to life and saluation But Paule when he declareth the vse of scripture vnder the person of Tymothe teacheth all ministers yf anye thing should haue ben added to the scriptures wuld not haue affirmed that by them the man of god is made perfecte i. Timo. ii d. xvi Neither do we denye but y● at all times there haue ben somtraditions of the apostles which be not written But those were suche as pertained to the ciuil order of the churche But forasmuche as many men haue abused this name this great while I thinke good to shewe what traditions ought to bee counted Apostolike Whiche shall not be hard yf in iudgyng and discernyng them we vse the markes For fyrst we must consyder whether they doe agree with the doctryne of the woorde and then whether they bee apte and meete to edify●… For it is certayne that the Apostles dyd neuer institute any rites and ordinaunces whiche eyther directly or els in anye parte were contrarye to theyr owne doctryne or myghte withdrawe menne from spirituall worshippyng whereof theyr owne wrytynges beare sufficiente recorde If thys rule be obserued bothe doctrine shall easilye be discerned frō traditions also false traditions frō the true Neyther are you ignorant how foolishe Tertullian iudgeth their opinions which think that the apostles haue ouerpassed an●…thīg necessary to saluatiō which ether by word of mouth or writīgs thei haue not taught but we will adde more hereto Namely that those things which herein the Apostles decreed were not continuall Truelye their instytutions passe all exception yet neuerthelesse by the rule of charitye they yelded somewhat to the weaknes of men As when the eating of suffocatorū and bloud was forbid the Iewes Also those thynges which Paule himselfe taught and obserued in Timothe and his own persō Ac. 15. f. 25. Act. 16. a. ● i Co. 16. d. xxix i Co. 11. a 7 Which now truly shuld haue no place but by the generall rule of charitye whereby we are willed in things indifferēt to apply our selues to our neighbours Other such like may be gathered of their rytes as of kissing vncouering the head which was the signe of authority and other such lyke whiche at this daye are contrarye to y● customes of many nations amōg whō it would seme most folish the men should kisse the one the other to talke with the heade vncouered is commonly a signe of y● lowest state and condicion These thinges therefore ought to be considered before anye custome be thought Apostolyke Also no man must grounde vppon the authority of the Apostles to trouble the church As it hapned in the cōtrouersye of the daye in the which Easter should be kept whiche bred miserable deuision and euē in the Apostles tyme by those that did abuse the authoritie of the churche at Ierusalē to myngle Iewishnesse wyth Christian religion Of whom it is writen in the Actes of the Apostles where it was decreed by a councell that no man should lay that yoke on mennes cōsciēces Wherby it may easely be perceiued that the Apostles could not be the authoures of so many ceremonies to the which afterwardes Satisfaction merites and remission of sinnes wer attributed For they taught far otherwise And so much they dissented from makyng newe ceremonies that they gaue no place to those of Moses lawe of the whiche God was the author Of thys yoke of traditions obseruances Austine long since writing to Ianuarius much cōplained if he had liued in our tyme how would he haue lamented thē Wherfore to be shorte we desyre that the Scripture whiche herein is playne maye iudge good traditions frō euil holy from prophane profitable frō hurtful necessarye frō superfluous When of these articles we are once agreed this question shall easily be dissolued whether the authoritie of the church be greater thā of the woorde of god which certes is no lesse fonde than if a man should doubte whether the sōn ought to be aboue his father the wife aboue her husbande or man aboue god And sure neuer the true church or any godly mā woulde moue such

remedy foūde for so great cōtronersies as dayly ryse of benefyces Of the excommunicatyō censure of the Churche and such lyke With the which hard weighty questions the Bishops occupyed had so litle leasure the they could scarse findeany tyme to employ in the hearyng of vs. What meanes they sought in the meane time to preiudice our matter it is not to the purpose here to tel I wil shew onely this one Which some thought in maner the prologe or preamble of the conference that should ensue that hereby mē may know what credite they ought to geue to such rumors as our aduersariesfalsely spred vpon vs. For immediatly vpon the departure of Theodore Beza a rumoure ranne that he being conuycted by the Cardinall of Lorayne was turned to the Catholikes as they cal themselues and agreed with them as coucerning the Sacrament as they terme it of the aulter Of thys tale what was the couloure and occasion I wyll shortly shew Whē Beza the day after hys comyng came to the Queenes presence in the palayce of the kyng of Nauarre by whom he was sent for there beeyng presēt the Prince of Conde the Cardinal of Borbon diuers other the Cardinall of Lorayne emonges others being there began to entreate and exhort him to encline to peace and concorde saying that as being absēt he had troubled the kyngdom so now being presēt he might wel appease it Hereto Beza first shewing what good wil he had alwayes borne to the kyng and hys natiue countrey aunswered that he was not of power to trouble so great a kingdome but muche lesse of purpose to do it whiche mighte well appeare by hys wrytinges hopyng also that they should perceyue greater proofe therof in hys talke Then the Queene demaunded of hys wrytynges Wheruppon the Cardenall takynge occasyon sayd that he hadde a booke publyshed in the name of Beza in the which he red one horrible incōuensēce Namely that Christ is now so to be lought in his Supper as afore he tooke vpon hym our flesh and was borne of the virgin I haue heard also quoth he that you wrote in a certaine booke that Christ is in such sort in his Supper as he is in a dunghil With these sayings al those that were present were greatly offended But Beza sayd As for the bokes if they were present I myght more certainly aunswere whether they were myne or no. But as to the first sentence it may wel seeme vnreasonable as it is rehearsed of my Lorde Cardinal But well vnderstode and those thinges considered which go afore it and folowe it we shal fynde it most true But the last is not onely shamefull but wycked also and blasphemous And I am well assured can neyther be founde in my wrytings nor any others of our part Ouer passing therfore this last in the which whosoeuer was the author of it he vttered to playne and manifest a lie the Cardinall returned to the first It were very hard quod he that we should haue no more than those olde fathers Furthermore how could Christes fleshe be geuē afore it was Then Beza asked of the Cardinall whether from the beginning of the world there had ben any Church he graunted Also was not the same Churche a Church by him which is the Mediatour betwixt God and mā There to he agreed also Is not Christ the true God and mā thesame Mediatour He confessed that also Then quod Beza the communicating of the faythful with Christ is not to be limited to y● tyme in the which in dede he ioined his diuinity to our nature For that which was not as yet by the course of nature was alwayes by power and effect present to the eyes of our fayth Is it not sayd that Abrahā saw the day of Christ and reioyced Also Paule sayeth that our fathers did eate the selfe same spiritual foode and dronke the selfe same spirituall drynke out of the spirituall rocke which folowed them which rocke was Christ Hereunto the Cardinall agreed also and adioyned here to that which is written in the Apocalips that the lamb was slayne from the beginning of the world Then Beza entreated somwhat of the difference of the olde and newe Testament From thys question as it haps many tymes they fel into the reasoning of the presence of the body of Christ in his supper We do not agree quoth the Cardinal in the exposition of these wordes of our Lord. This is my body I graunt quoth Beza and I am sory that we agree no better But I had rather plainly to graunt it than to dissemble it I quoth the Cardinall doe teache the children of my diocesse when they are asked what is the bread of the body of our Lord to answere that it is the body of Christ Do ye disalow that No quoth Beza For it is the sayinge of Christ But the question is after what sort the bread is called the body of Christ For of those thinges which are sayd to be all are not sayd to be after one selfe same sort And there with he touched somewhat of the Sacramental maners of speaking Wherin the Cardinal did not much repugne against the sayings of Beza onely against that place but the rocke is Christ whiche Beza cyted he set this The worde was made flesh But he was sone made to leaue that hold For y● which is spokē of a natural and essential cōmunion far differeth from the Sacramental speach At the laste this questiō quoth Beza cōsisteth in foure pointes The first is of the signes The other of the thing signifyed The third of y● cōioyning of the signes with the thing signified The fourth of the participation of the signes y● thinges signified by thē As to the first quoth he we do not agree that in the lords Supper you do appoint onely accidentes in stede of the signes Wheras we continue there the nature of bread wine as both the nature of Sacraments requires also the holy Scripture teacheth Here the Cardinal interrupting hym Truly quoth he I thinke my selfe able enough to defende transubstantiation But I thynk the deuines might well inough haue left out y● doctrine Neyther would I y● vpō that poynt should rest any diursiō of our churches As to the second poynt quoth Beza we do not only say y● the meryte of Christes death passion is signified vnto vs by the signes of bread and wyne But also the true body that was crucified for vs and the true bloud which was shed for vs and to be short that Christ himself true God and man is signified vnto vs by these visible signes that oure myndes and vnderstanding may by fayth spiritually beholde hym in heauen where he now ascēded resteth And so haue the fruition of all hys goods and giftes to lyfe euerlastyng And that assone and as surely as we see take eate drynke those corporall and visible signes The Cardinall agreed hereto signifying that he was glad to vnderstande it For that he had

Church is it which is euery where knowen and of all mē To the authority of y● church he sayd al interpretation of Scriptures and making of traditions ought to bee referred Saying that the succession as well of that Church as of the pastours therof was perpetual but of the Lordes Supper he so entreated the touching nothing at al of the chaūge of the natures of the elements he came very nye to their opinion which ioyne the body bloud of Christ with the elementes And say that they be both vnder them and in them Which afterwardes we vnderstode was done for a polecy partly to procure their fauoure whom he had so kindly clawed and partly to make vs the more hatefull to them Neither yet did he plainly agree with them but shewed that in thys respect he did willingly ioyne with them that they myghte ioyntly warre against vs. The ende of his oration was to this effect That the kyng and his counsell leauing our opinion should folow the steppes of theyr for fathers and not leaue their accustomed vsage When he had ended we desired that presently whiles the memory therof was yet fresh we might satisfye his obiections and refute his argumētes For we feared least after thys the Cardinals answere we should scarcely haue leasure or liberty afterwardes to speake Bicause the day afore many bragged that we shuld loke for nothing els thā condemnation the thūderbolt of excomunication Neyther wer we ignorant therof The Queene taking the aduise of her coūcel cōmaunded vs to depart saying that we should answere it an other tyme that she would appoint vs a day whē we shuld be presēt again And surely meruaile had it ben if the byshops which wer of that coūcel would haue geuē any other councel The next day againe we desired that we might be presētly heard and the tyme no longer prolōged But we could obtayne nothing neither wer we heard before the eight day In the meane time false rumors were spred abrode that we wer ouercome put to silēce had nothyng to say Whereas we were ready to haue answered their oration presently And how false such tales be here by men may sufficiently gesse that the Bishops did what they could to breake of the cōference so that at the last by their importunity they obteined of the Queene that the matter shuld not be opēly heard afore the king but in a more secret place afore few Therfore it was deferred til the .xxiiii. day of that moneth at the whiche cōmaunded to returne to Poyssye we came before the Quene the king Queen of Nauarre the rest of the Lordes and counsallours there were present also ●… Cardinalles and many Byshops and diuynes of al sortes we the mynisters were admitted only to the number of xij Those being seuered which wer sēt frō other Churches which afore were ioyned with vs. For now the matter was heard both in narower place in lesse companye than before the Cardynals of lorayne shewed in few wordes that this assemblye was to this end that if we would obiecte any thing agaynst that which he had sayde eyght dayes before we might freely speake shuld be herd Then Beza in the name of vs al said That he would haue wished that immediatlye he might haue aunswered the Cardynalls oration whyles the same was fresh in memorye or at the least that he might haue had som copye therof that he might aūswere certaynly perfectly to euery poynt but forasmuch as he coulde not obtayne that he woulde aunswere so much as he coulde call to mynde Fyrste there fore as concerning the article of the Churche which the Cardinall fyrste handled he deuided it into thre partes First what it is Then what are the marks therof Thirdly what and how great is the authoritie therof It is wel knowē quoth he that this name Ecclesia which signifieth the church is deriued from the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifyeth to call frō on place to another Of calling we find .ii. sorts in the scriptures the one cōioyned with the working of the holy ghost wherof Paul to the Romains writeth whom he called them he iustified Rom. viii c. xxviii The other althoughe in outward shew It be al one with the first yet is altogether vnprofitable to saluation And that only through the fault of man beyng deaffe at the calling of God Of this calling spake the Lorde when he sayde That many wer called but fewe chosē Mat. xxii b. xiiii Hereof it happens that the name of the church which signifyeth the congregacion of those that are assembled by the word of god is taken .ii. wayes For generally it contayneth al those which outwardly professe to folowe the calling of god Neyther is it to be doubted but manye hypocrites and reprobate persons are within this nūber Neither we thanks be to god therefore haue at any tyme Either written or taught otherwise for asmuch as both the scripture and also common experience doth plainly proue the same but takyng this name of the churche proprely and streyghtlye as manye tymes we doe we then say that it comprehendeth onlye the electe and chosen of god And that al men may know that we be not the authours of this maner of speache or of this doctrine when it is written that the church is the body of Christ bones of his bones fleshe of his fleshe yea when the name of Christ it selfe is geuen vnto it Eph. ii g. xxx as Paule wrytyng to the Corinthians ioyning the members with the heade calleth her Christ i. Cor. xii b. xii xvii how could in the number be contayned the reprobate in as muche as they are the members of the deuill For it cannot bee that we shoulde be members bothe of Christ and of the deuil which Austine writyng agaynste Cresconius well noteth in his seconde booke and xxiiii Chapter He also writyng on the .lxiiii. psalme vsed this distinction of the churche saying y● that church whiche is signifyed by Ierusalē toke her begynnyng of Abel and Babilon of Eain And afterwardes in his fyrst booke of baptysme agaynst the Donatistes the seconde Chapter wheras he taketh the name of the church more largely he saieth that he that begot Abell Enoch Noe Abraham the reste of the Prophetes begot also Cayn Ismaell Dathan and suche lyke Therefore to conclude we muste take that whiche Austine hymselfe wrote in the seuenth boke of the same booke the. 51. chapter whiche is also rehearsed .xxiiii. ix i. a. ca. All thyngs consydred it is said that there are two kynde of men in the churche Some of them sayeth he bee the members of Christe and of the house of God yea the house of GOD it self Other some bee in the house but not of the house For they bee as chaffe with the corne tyll suche tyme as they bee seuered Hereof ryseth a questyon whether the Churche bee inuisible Whiche I thynke good to affyrme and