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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A18441	[A treatise against the Defense of the censure, giuen upon the bookes of W.Charke and Meredith Hanmer, by an unknowne popish traytor in maintenance of the seditious challenge of Edmond Campion ... Hereunto are adjoyned two treatises, written by D.Fulke ... ]	Charke, William, d. 1617, attributed name.; Fulke, William, 1538-1589.	1586 (1586)	STC 5009; ESTC S111939	659,527	941

discharge your Iesuites of herisie and treason the wordes of scorpions and venemous spiders are no railing termes but apt to expresse their venemous and poisonous practises for they are vsed in scripture to describe the like mischeuous workes as Apocal. 9. Esa. 59. 5. The rest of his speaches haue either the same or the like phrases iustified in the scriptures against corrupters of Religion and enimies of publike peace as we shewe your Iesuites to be for the former and their practises to the confusion of some of them haue beene discouered for the latter With Master Hanmers termes I will not meddle who is to answer for him-selfe when you haue confuted his arguments or els when he shall see it conuenient Doctor Fulke the next man whom you condemne to be of a ruffianlike spirit because he saith shew me Allin if thou canst for thy guttes as though you raile not more of him in your ruffianlike terme then he in speaking of Allens guttes whatsoeuer the cause or affection were hath answered alreadie in his own behalfe in such sort as more shame redowndeth to you that haue gathered together his vehement and sharpe speaches vttered in manie bookes and to those whome you complaine by him to be abused while he giueth a reason of his speaches then all the eloquence you haue wil be able to wipe away in a larger treatise then your defense of the Censure as yet appeareth to be Confut of Topish quarrelles page 20. and so forth in 16. or 17 pages If it were no more but your marginall note Docter Fulkes talent in railing wherein you abuse an holie phrase of scripture like an Italian Atheist to mooue Sardonicall laughter it were much more able to conuince you of a ruffianlike spirit then anie terme that D. Fulke vseth seeing such vnreligious allusions vnto the termes and matters of holie scripture cannot be defended in anie man cause or manner The like you haue of Primitias spiritus and Luthers lying with a Nunne in the Lord all which argue a prophane spirite and a licentious intemperate and almoste blasphemous tongue or penne in anie that vse them or the like When you haue almoste done with Doctor Fulke you take vpon you to shew the like rayling in the Masters as you terme them that you haue done in the schollers and beginning with Iohn Caluin you saie that his ordinarie terme especially against Bishoppes and such like as are his superiours is to call them Nebulones knaues which beside the foull gall whence it proceedeth is vnseemelie For this you neither note nor quote anie one place where he vseth that terme in such sort as either his gall might thereby be espied or the same signfying light persons might not fitlie be applied vnto them vpon whome he bestowed the terme As for your popish Bishoppes are not his superiours but for the most part deserue sharper termes then Nebulones euen such as were fitte for Annas Caiphas Ananias and the rest of that race which were as great prelates as they Hauing nothing more against Caluin you passe ouer to Luther who in his booke against King Henrie the eight of England ministreth vnto you larger matter to triumph against him where in it maie be doubted whether you had greater pleasure in discouering of Lu ther 's intemper at stile then in displaying those odious and long since buried reproches against that noble Prince so great an enimie to your Romish Antichrist which as they were vnseemelie in respect of either of their persons him that did write the Prince against whom he did write so they were afterward misliked of Luther himselfe who in as great humilitie as before he did write in disdaine craued pardon at his handes not for the matter substance of his booke but for his vnreuerent handling of the same against a King of so great nobility of so good expectation the cause that mooued him to such destemper was for that he supposed that the booke was not endited by the King him selfe but by some enimie of his to procure his dishonour as he writeth in the same booke Crederes ab insigni hoste regis hunc librum editum in perpetuam regis ignominiam You would thinke that his booke was set forth by some notable enimie of the Kinges to the perpetuall shame of the King And in his Epistle of submission he declareth that he suspected cardinall Wolsey to be the author thereof which made him the bolder to write as he did against it And in the storie of Sir Thomas Moores life written by his sonne in lawe Master Roper which I haue seene it appeareth that Kinge Henrie tooke great displeasure against Sir Thomas Moore for the edition of that booke by which he receiued more dishonour then by anie thing in all his life Luther therfore writing against him that did abuse the name of the Kinge in defence of an euill cause thought he was not bound to spare him because of the Kinges title but that he might so much the rather be free to inueigh against him But this to saie the trueth might be some part of an excuse though not a sufficient defense of his doing neuerthelesse it followeth not here of that he could not be an elect vessell of God or that he had no part of Gods spirit or that he was herein worsse then anie russian or rakehell as our seuere Censurer saith without either malice or railing spirit I warrant you For Gods elect children they that haue a great part of his spirit do sometimes fal into far greater crimes then this and yet by his grace are brought to repentance as Luther was for this vntemperat stile and thereof made open confession in his epistle of submission againe he erred by immoderat zeale yet in defense of the truth which is not the cause that mooueth ruffians and rakehelles to rage Wherefore it is well with Luther that hath alreadie answered the matter before a more wise and merciful iudge and standeth not at the curtesie of our solemne Censurer But it is more to your purpose that you bring in Luther inueighing against the Caluinistes where he had not by our owne confession a good cause the Caluinistes againe as bitter against him a tast whereof though you refer the matter to another place you wil needes giue vs here by citing of one place in stead of all the rest and that is of the Church of Tygurine against Luther Tygur 〈◊〉 3. contra supermam Lutherij confessionem whole wordes you promise to rehearse out of what edition I cannot tell for the edition of Tigure by Froshere 1545. of Gwalters translation reporteth their wordes somewhat otherwise and therefore I thinke in this place as in diuers other you are but a broaker of other mens ware to put forth that you neuer sawe your selfe but gather out of some other mans notebooke which reported not al thinges either with such diligence or faithfullnes as had beene requisite to be found in

the head of the house But if he will saie this other man was no frier then he must shewe what he was whoe was the testator what fraude Luther and his Prior vsed to deceiue him and bring good proofe thereof or els who is bound to beleeue him But to goe forward other estate or degree or Apostleshippe he knoweth not that Luther had anie what then was not this sufficient calling for him that was a Doctor of the Popish Church to preach against the abuses and errors thereof and when his doctrine and conclusions were vndoubtedly agreeable to the holie scriptures might he not iustlie affirme that they were from heauen And that he was sent from heauen to teach the Germanes the trueth of the Gospell which of long time had beene hidden from them For that he was their first Apostle or that before his daies they neuer had any true religion or Christian doctrine he neuer said Neither did he make more account of himselfe then of Saint Augustine and all other Fathers of the Church although in the booke quoted by Frarine he preferreth that doctrine which is agreeable to the holie scriptures before the iudgement of Augustine and all men that euer were As for the familiar conference and talke with the Deuill which Frarine affirmeth that he reporieth of himselfe And that Cocleus and al his enemies doe gnaw so much vpon to prooue that he was set on by the Deuil to gainesaie the masse Is nothing but a ridiculous cauill For Luther speaketh of a spirituall conflict that he had with Sathan for saying masse so long which at length he acknowledged to be blasphemous against the death of Christ. Not of any bodelie appeerance of the Deuill or familiar talke with him as the malice of the Papists doe expound him Next Luther our Orator will examine Caluins vocation Caluine saith he was borne at Nouiodunum in Picardie What of that He was banished from his countrie for his wicked behauiour That is false For he liued in his countrie in good credit both of learning and honestie till the crueltie of the Papists caused him to seeke the libertie and profession of religion abroad which he could not haue at home That he was the veriest vnthrist naughtiest varlet of all his companions when he was in his countrie is an impudent slaunder for at Orleans he red the lawe lecture oftentimes in the place of Petrus Stella the publike reader and was so well accounted both for his learning and vertue that the degree of Doctorship in that facultie with full consent of all the teachers was offered him without anie expences as one that had verie well deserued of the vniuersitie Afterward at Paris he set forth that notable commentary of his of Seneca de Clementia He was of great familiaritie with Nicolaus Copus Rector of the vniuersitie of Paris and in good credit with the Queene of Nauarre sister vnto King Frauncis He had conference with Iacobus Faber Stapulensis in Aquitanes and after he had set forth that worthie booke of his called Psychopanuchia at Orleans against them which taught that the soules departed doe sleepe vntill the resurrection without sense of good or euill he came to the Citie of Basill This course of his life as it is written in his storie with much more to this effect doth witnes that he was euen from his youth a man indued with singuler modestie temperance and godlines whatsoeuer his aduersaries without all proofe or shewe of truth are not ashamed to inuent and brute against him When he was at Basill he did not hide his head as the slaunderer saieth but desired in deed to be priuate that he might better applie his studies and especiallie the Hebrew tongue But such was his excellencie that he could not be hid from the principall learned men of that vniuersitie and so litle was he hid that there he first set forth his Institution dedicated to King Frauncis Our declaimer saith that from Basile he passed to Strasburg and there began to shew his head and preach to the Runnagats But that is false for from Basill he went into Italie to visit the Duchesse of Ferrara from whence he returned into Fraunce where hauing set all his affaires in order he brought away his onely brother AntonieCaluine intending to settle him selfe either at Basill or at Strasburg But al other passages being stopt he was forced to trauaile thorough Sauoye and comming to Geneua onely to visite Farellus and Viretus by whose zealous earnest labours Popery being banished and the Church there reformed he was staied by the terrible obtestation of Farellus and by the Presbyterie and Magistrates chosen to be a teacher and intepreter of the Scriptures in that Church But that he put out the deputie of the citie expelled the Bishops and Popish cleargie reigned there like a conquerour by the law of ireason and force of armes as Frarine saieth it is a moste impudent lie though an hundred Lindanes had sworne that it was true For the Bishoppe with his Popish cleargie was departed out of the citie and the Religion reformed by publike authoritie receiued long time before Caluines first arriuall thether Of like trueth it is that Beza in his baudie and filthie epigrames as it pleaseth Frarine to call them farre passeth the wanton Pagan Poetes Martiall and Tibullus For in the moste licentious of these epigrames first condemned by Beza himselfe there is not one word of obscenitie although they were made in a fained argument after the immitation of those Poets And if they had bin as full of baudie tearmes and matters as Martiall himselfe Yet so long as Beza cōtinued in popery where they were freely printed selde they were catholike enough What should I speake saith he of Bernardinus Ochinus the preacher of Polygamie Verelie there is no cause why he should speake of him seeing both the man and the doctrine are detested in our Churches and by our writings confuted He nameth also Bernard Rotman and Iohn of Leyd authors of the Anabaptisticall sedition at Monster as though wee had any thing to doe with them Yes saith he they conquered the field against the Lutheranes by pretence of scripture onelie as Rotman before vanquished the Papists The storie is written who list to reade wherein may be found they vsed other craftes beside force of armes then pretence of scripture onelie to compasse their diuelish attempts And what if they had vsed the pretence of scripture onelie as the diuel did in tempting our sauiour Christ was the scripture onelie of lesse force to confute their false pretence then when it was vsed by our Sauiour Christ against the Deuill He telleth vs of Hosiander reprooued of vs for heresie of Carolostadius who thorough folly madnes became a ploughnian The names also of Peter Martyr Illiricus Musculus Farellus Viretus and Bucer a gainst whom he hath nothing to say besides I know not what Marote Malote And that these should vsurpe

Luther say that he hath but one sacrament for vs in that mea ning of the word sacrament in which he is charged by the cauiller to alter his opinion so shortlie but in an other meaning neither doth he saie that this one sacrament is haptisme in which I can but wonder at the impudency of this fellow that forgeth this last lie in his owne braine without all colour or shew of Luthers words as though Luther would allow no sacrament of the Church but Baptisme The wordes of Luther are these of the number of sacraments After he hath denied the number of seauen admitted for the present but three namely Baptisme penance the supper all which he affirmeth by the court of Rome to be brought into miserable captiuitie and the Church spoiled of all her libertie he addeth Quanquam si vsu scripturae loqui velim non nisi'vnum sacramentum habeam tria signa sacrament alia de quo latiùs suo tempore Although if I would speake after the vse of scripture I haue but one sacrament and three sacramentall signes whereof more at large in due time This one sacrament whereof he speaketh is the holie mysterie or secret of our redemption or saluation by Iesus Christ of which the other that are commonlie called sacraments are holie and mysticall signes so that herein he changeth no opinion of the thing but onelie speaketh of the diuerse taking of the worde Well yet will our a duersarie replie he alloweth three sacraments so doth the confession of Auspurge Melancthon fowre and Caluine two and all this by onelie scripture I haue shewed before sufficientlie that this question of the number of those signes that maie be called sacraments properlie or vnproperlie generallie or speciallie is not determinable by the holie scriptures because this name of sacrament is not found in them Those holie mysteries which by externall elements do testifie the inuisible grace of God workeing in vs vnto our saluation by regeneration and preseruation are plainlie set forth in the scripture Baptisme and the Lords supper without naming them sacraments which comprehend that whol mysterie of our saluation which Luther calleth the onelie sacrament by the vse of the scripture according to which explication of the word sacrament there are but two so rightlie properlie and speciallie to be termed according to the auncient vsage of the Latine Church and no more acknowledged by anie protestant of sound religion For Luther his enemies shall testifie which were appointed to gather out of his writings whatsoeuer they thought to be erroneous to be obiected against him this is their Censure Negat septem esse sacramenta sed tantùm tria pro tempore ponenda baptismum poenitentiam panem Immo non nisi vnum esse sacramentum tria figna sacramentalia Duo tamen in Ecclesia Dei esse sacramenta baptismum panem He denieth say the collectors that there are seauen sacraments but that three onelie for the time are to be admitted baptisme penance and the breade nay rather that there is but one sacrament and three sacramentall signes neuertheles there are two sacraments in the Church of God baptisme and the bread Luthers iudgement thus appearing by the confestion of his owne aduersaries that as baptisme and the supper are called sacraments there are no more that rightlie and properlie can beare that name The confession of Auspurge and Melancthon which as our answerer saith pretend and professe to follow Luther in all things can haue none other meaning in this matter of the number of the sacraments of the new testament And Melancthon expressely discoursing of the term sacrament sheweth how diuerslie it maie be taken to comprehend two three or fowre And in the last edition of his common places where he answereth the articles of the Bauaricall inquisition he holdeth but two properlie to be called sacraments as Luther before him in his Catechisme the greater and the lesser Wherefore this friuolous cauill is thus easilie discussed to the shame of the cauiller and to the attestation of our consent in the matter and substance of trueth The like brable of wordes he maketh of the title of heade of the Church which Caluine and the Magdeburgeans doe mislike and Caluine in King Henrie found to be Antichristian but Caluines folowers in England do finde by onelie scripure to be moste Christian. Where all the dissention is in the terme which being rightlie vnderstood as by law it hath bene confirmed vnto the Prince conteineth no other authoritie then Caluine and all other professors of the Gospell do acknowledge to pertaine vnto the Christian magistrate and is prooued to be moste Christian not onelie by scripture but also by testimonie of the moste auncient and Catholike Fathers of the Church as it were easie to shew but that it is here no place to decide these controuersies The title of supreme head of the Church graunted to King Henrie Caluine saieth was blaspheomus not as it was vnderstoode of the godlie at that time but as it was applied by Stephen Gardiner who in a conference at Ratisbone cared not much for the testimonies of the scripture but said it was in the Kings power to abrogate decrees and to institute new ceremonies as to appoint daies of fasting abstinence from flesh c. And not staying there he proceeded further to affirme that it was lawfull for the King to forbid mariage vnto Priests to forbid the laie people to drinke of the cup in the Lords supper and generallie to commaund or for bid in his kingdome what he would because he had soueraigne authoritie This authoritie or the title in this sense neither our princes do accept neither doth anie godlie man allow vnto them A third example he bringeth of burning of heretikes wherein he saith The Protestants a greate while by onelie scripture defended against the Catholikes that no heretikes might be burned or put to death whereof large bookes are written on both partes Now they haue found by euident scripture that they maie be burned As though there were not controuersies enow betweene the Papists and the Protestants this man will needes make more as this of putting blasphemous heretikes to death which was neuer denied the scripture of stoning blasphemers false Prophets and Idolaters being so manifest A. nabaptists indeede and such like sectaries are lothe that heretikes should be punished with death But there hath bone long bookes saith he written thereof on both partes If you aske him by whome he biddeth you in the margent looke Eckius in Encher and Luther contra Latom. de incendiariis Would you not thinke this follow had read these treatises for burning of heretikes pro contra whereunto he sendeth vs to iustifie his saying of large bookes written on both partes but in truth he either neuer saw the bookes or els he is the moste impudent forger that euer was heard of for Fckius in his litle booke called Encheridion loco 27. de hereticis Comburendis

caepta 〈◊〉 quidam enim altiùs repetentes à beato Helia Iohanne sumpsere principium quorum Helias plus nobis videtur fuisse quàm Monachus Iohannes antè Prophetare caepisse quàm natus est alij autem in quam opinionem vulgus omne consentit asserunt Antonium huius propositi fuisse caput quod ex parte verum est It hath beene often douted among many by which of Monkes especiallie the wildernes began to be inhabited for some fetching the matter somewhat high haue taken the beginning of blesseá Elias and Ihon of which two Elias seemeth to vs to haue beene more then a Monke and Iohn to haue prophecied before he was borne but other into which opinion all the common sorte consenteth affirme that Antonie was the heade or cheefe of this purpose which is partlie true By these wordes it is euident that Saint Ierome counteth Helias and Ihon Baptist to be of a higher calling then that they could be called Monkes or patterns of Monasticall life ascribing the beginning of them rather to Paul and Antonie then to Helias and Iohn Baptist although they both for some time did lead an austere life in the wildernes the same doth your next author Cassianus Collat 18. Cap. 6. neither doth he once call Iohn Baptist a Monke or patterne of monasticall life but onelie sheweth that the Anachorites desiring to encounter openlie with the deuill feared not to pearse into the vast solitarie places of the wildernes ad imitationem scilicet Iohannis Baptistae to the imitation of Iohn Baptist who ledd his life in the wilderens so doe not your Popifh Monkes but lie in their warme nests in the cloysters What Sozomenus saith I haue shewed a little before Isodorus agreeth with Saint Ierome and Cassianus that the Anachorites which liue alone doe follow Elias and Iohn Baptist where as the Coenobites which liue in companies in that point more like your Monks do follow the Apostles As for Theoph. in c. 1. Lu. which you note next hath nothing sounding towards the name of monkor monastical life except you meane where he saith that Iohn liued in the wildernes as Elias did The last author you quote Nicephorus Hist. li. 8. c. 39. hath nothing more then the verie words of Sozomene that some men said that Elias was the beginner of that solitarie life of Christians some that Iohn Baptist. And among all your authors there is not one that saieth Iohn Baptist was a Monke of the newe Testament or a patern of such monasticall life as you defend that there should be so great consent there of that matter where of you bragge so much But names and quotations of Doctors are sufficient either for you that by all likeliehood neuer turned the bookes your selfe or for your sottish schollers that accept all your wordes without examination and triall After this followeth a vaine strife of words cōcerning the signification of this terme sect which of M. Charke is taken for a schisme as it is manifest by the example he bringeth of the 1. Cor. 1. The Censurer sometime taketh it in good part and sometime in euill sometime he maketh it equall with the terme of heresie sometime more particulare which contention seeing it is vnprofitable for the readers I do willinglie omit referring them that list to vnderstand ofit further to the comparison ofboth their writings where they shall finde that Master Charke in effect preuenteth all his cauillations by saying that the names of heresie and sect areoften times confounded which to prooue the Censurer busieth him-selfe in vaine It is somewhat materiall that he saith the Corinthians erred in a point of faith esteeming the vertue or power of Baptisme not to depend onelie of Christ but of the dignitie of the Baptizer And surelie there muste be some opinion touching faith where there is a schisme in the Church though there be not a dissent in the necessarie articles of faith but a schisme or sect may be where neither the generall doctrine nor the societie of the Church is forsaken as inthe example 1. Cor. 1. which is contrarie to the descriptionof the censure Sectaries are such as cut themselues of in opinion of religion from the general body of the Catholike Church for so did not the Corinth 1. Cor. 1. howsoeeur they had an opinion of some excellencie in the minister of Baptisme nor the 1. Cor. 11. 18. where Saint Paul likewise chargeth them with schismes when they came together to celebrate the communion which text being likewise quoted by M. Chark is cleane omittedby the defender But now you would cleare your sectes of Monkes and Fryers from the example of the Corinthian schismatikes by a fond similitude supposing our ministers should saie in a contrarie sense of libertie I will luie vnmaried after the order of my Lord of Canterburie I will bem aried after the platforme of my Lord of London I will haue two wiues together after the fashion of Master Archdeacon of Salisburie I will haue a wife and a wench after the custome of some other Archdeacon and preahcer Concerning your example if any Archdeacons be of such fashion as you describe them I would they had such punishment as to such fashions belongeth and if you be hable lawfullie to conuince them thereof I doubt not but they shal As for the other 2. of being maried vnmaried be matters in deede of Christian libertie that euerie minister may choose that which he findeth to be most expedient for him but if any minister should glorie of his continent life out of mariage by hauing my Lorde of Canterhurie for his patterne or of his chaste life in mariage by following my Lorde of Londons platforme he might iustlie be noted for a schismatike as Saint Paull doth the Corinthians when they saide I am of Paul I of Apollo I of Cephas and I of Christ. For the platforme order patterne or example of men in these cases must not be their warrant but the worde of God which text is plaine that in profession of Religion we may not be called by the names of men no nor by the name of Christ or Iesus therebie to make a diuision or seperation of our selues in excellencie from other to whome Iesus Christ is common as well as to our selues For euerie one of your sects termed of Benedict Augustine Frauncis Dominike Iesus c. although in the generall doctrine of Poperie they al agree yet haue they their seuerall opinions each one of the excellencie of thier orders and patrons which maketh a schisme and often times hath broken forth into great brawling and open contention It is too manifest that the Monkes commonlie hated the Fryars the Dominicans and Franciscans were at deadlie feede the not obseruants enuied the obseruants and they despised the children of their owne father Frauncis as bastardes in comparison of them selues and now the Iesuites are hated and inuicd of all other sects of Monkes and especiallie of Fryars whome they bring

peece of Gods worde and traditions are an other peece and this peece must be added to that or els it is not a perfect or sufficient instruction of itselfe for Gods Church The comparison you make of ioyning S. Lukes Gospell to that of Saint Matthew or Saint Paules epistles to them both to resemble your patching of traditions to the written word of God is both odious and vnlike and without begging the wholl matter in question gaineth nothing For the adding of the writings of one Euangelist to another or of an Apostle to the Euangelistes is but the heaping of heauenlie treasure to the further inriching of the Church in all light of spirituall knowledge so the accession of the bookes of the new testament is as it were the vnfolding or laying open of the same diuine riches that was perfectlie contayned in the olde testament for the saluation of all Gods elect that liued vnder that discipline But your traditions as you maintaine them argue an insufficiencie of the holie scriptures which allso you confesse your selfe and are not a more plaine or plentifull application of the mysteries comprehended in them Therefore though you can for manners sake otherwhile forbeare odious speeches aginst the dignitie of holie scriptures yet euen that odious conclusion gathered by Gotuisus must needes follow of your doctrine concerning the insufficiencie of scriptures and the necessitie of traditions That your traditions are Gods word and of equall authoritie with the scriptures you promise to shew more largelie in the twelft article together with certaine meanes how to know and discerne the same Sed haec in dicm minitave Parmeno You haue taken a pretie pause of three yeares long since you were interrupted as you 〈◊〉 in the end by a writte de remouendo But the daie will come that shall paie for all Whether anie cause or matter hath beene ministred by you of odious speeches against the dignitie of holie scriptures Mastet Charke declareth by one example out of Hosius which with all the rest that he saith you omit to answer as trifling speech to litle purpose So whatsoeuer by anie colour of reason you can not auoid by your censorious authoritie you maie contemne and passe ouer But his conclusion seemeth worthie the answer which he maketh in these wordes To conclude it is a great iniquitie to adde traditions or your vnwritten verities to the written word of God whereunto no man maie adde because nothing is wanting from which no man maie take because nothing is superfluous But to him that addeth shall the curses written in the booke be added for euer Against this conclusiō you note in the margent great iniquitie to adde one veritie to another or to beleeue two verities together A fine ieste but a grosse begging of the wholl cause For who shal graunt that your vnwritten vereties be truth and not falsehood falselie by you termed verities vnwritten There is no veritie of matters necessarie to be knowne vnto saluation which is not written in the holie scriptures that are hable to make vs wise vnto saluation But good Lord what a sturre you keepe because M. Chatk noteth in the margent Apoc. 22. ask how this place is alledged against you c. As though that which is true of one booke yea of euery booke of the scripture maie not iustlie be verefied of the wholl bodie and boke of the the Bible Because adding to the word of god argueth imperfection in the word of god Your stale obiection of Saint Iohns Gospell written after the Reuelation is alreadie answered For al bookes of scripture that haue beene written since the fiue bookes of Moses are no addition to the word of God but a more cleere explication of the 〈◊〉 first com mitted to writing by inspiration of God Neither do they teach an other waie of saluation then Moses did but set forth the same more plainlie by demonstration by examples of Gods iustice and his mercie by threatenings by exhortations by explication of his promises by shewing the accomplishment and the manner of perfourmance of them in Christ and his Church And this they do moste absolutelie sufficiently and plentifully to the saluation of Gods people These things saith S. Iohn are written that you should beleeue that Iesus is Christ the sonne of God and that beleeuing you maie haue euerlasting life in his name Here you maie as well cauill that not onelie the Gospell of Saint Iohn or the miracles written in the same is necessarie to be beleeued vnto saluation but all the rest of the scripture also foolishlie opposing thinges that are no waie repugnant but the one including the other For the beleeuing of Saint Iohns Gospell doth not exclude but include all other bookes and partes of holie scripture which teach the same meane of saluation or any thing thereto pertaining But how holdeth this argument saie you no man maie adde to the booke of Apocalips ergo no man maie beleeue a tradition of Christ or his Apostles Maie we not as well saie ergo we maie not beleeue the actes of the Apostles No sir for we make our argument in this man ner No man maie adde to the booke of the Apocalips much lesse may anie man adde to the wholl Bible of the olde and new testament And consequentlie there are no traditions of Christ and his Apostles to be credited as needefull to saluation which are not contained in the holy scriptures Thus we alledge scriptures and thus we argue vppon them not as it pleaseth you to deseant vpon our allegations and to dissigure our arguments But it is lamentable you saie to see the 〈◊〉 dealings of these men in matters of such importance It is verie true vnderstanding you and your complices to be the men that vse such fleightes in 〈◊〉 waightie causes As for our doctrine is plaine without any seame that the scriptures are sufficient to saluation therfore al tradition besides them are 〈◊〉 to that purpose But let vs see who 〈◊〉 sleightes by your iudgement First you aske Master Charke what he 〈◊〉 by adding Who doth adde Or in what sense as though his meaning and sense of adding were not manifest as also his accusation that the I suites the Papistes do adde to the word of God their traditions a necessarie to saluation yet not expressed or contained in the word of God But if God saie you left anie doctrine by tradition vnto the Church and our ancetours haue deliuered the same vuto vs especiallie those of the 〈◊〉 Church what shall we do in this case Shall we refuse it It seemeth dangerous and I see no reason The question is not whether we should refuse anie thing that God hath left but whether God hath left anie such tradition to be beleeued vnto salua tion which is not contained in the holie scriptures But if our ancetours of the primitiue Church haue deliuered anie such tradition vnwritten as left by Christ what shall we doe you

proofe or authoritie you doe so confidentlie affirme ALLEN And yet I talke not now of taking or deliuering anle man out of Purgatory so much sooner as so many daies release doth import when he is in it alreadie but I meane as I often saie for the simples sake of him that is yet aliue and in the Churches iurisdiction and therefore may haue by the keies of the Church a pardon of his dets either all or part to preuent the paines of Purgatorie or discharge the debt thereof before that terrible daie come when it shal be actuallie required And in this sense vndoubtedly are the great number of yeares daies to be taken which be exceeding necessarie to procure mercie in these euil times wherein we may behold the pitifulwaste of Christian workes euerie where and litle penance to be done no not of the better sort of Christan people As for the other disobedient children that euerie way laugh their mother to scorne whether she vse sextritie of discipline or lenitie in remission they haue no part neither of the Churches blessing nor of the holy workes of Saintes nor of Gods owne peace and pardon Our Lord giue them the grace of repentance that they may haue a tast either of the Churcher discipline or of her mercy and lensty FVLKE You talke and meane that men should make haste while they are aliue to take their pardons whereof perhapes you are a proctor or pettie marchant vnder the Pope not regarding so much what the Popes iurisdiction is ouer poore soules in Purgatorie as how to get monie out of liuing mens purses for pardons and dispensations to mantaine you in your traiterous popery Your complaint of litle penance done is vaine hypocritical seeing you your selfe by mantaining of pardons are occasion that none at all need to be done of them that haue mony to paie for them God open the eies of the simple if it be his will to see your treacherie and either giue you true repentance orels that which your treasons heresies hypocrisie haue long agoe deserued It is prooued as wel by sundry examples of the old law as by Christs one often fact his Apostles that inioyned or deserued punishment may be released by the gouernours of the Church in their pardons THE 9. CHAP. ALLEN Some may here maruel perchance that such power should be giuen to mortall men as to remit such great portion of penance as by iustice ought to be enioyned or such a number of yeares as are appointed for satisfaction correction of former misdeeds thereby to remooue from the partie the heauy hand of god prepared for iudgement who would not wonder much hereat if they considered that the debt of hell paines and eternity of punishment which incomparablie exceedeth manie thousand yeares might by the Priestes office and alwaies is in the due execution of the sacrament of penance fully remooued from the partie penitent And where mercy putteth away deserued damnation there may much lesse force of grace turne awaie the punishment of Purgatorie being not transitorie and equivalent onelie to the penance of a number of yeares prescribed In which case if the Church of God should haue no preheminence now after the incarnation of Christ since which time the waiet of mercie towardes mankinde must needs be much enlarged our state gouernment should be much inferiour to the regiment and to the priesthood of the old law which trulie did in al things but as a shadow and figure resemble the Maiesty of our Churches prcheminence especiallie there where mercy grace were to be shewed which came by Christ Iesus Behold then some sleppe of this most excellent power giuen to our chiefe Priestes in the persons of Moses and Aaron whoe are noted in the booke of Exodus and Numbers meruelouslie to haue procured Gods mercie and sometimes by force of sacrifice praier and singular zeale to hauereleased some great portion of the paines and punishment which God himselfe by his owne mouth and determination had laied vpon the people With what meruelous confidence of his office and pitie of the afflicted sort did one of them crie out vnto god to holde his hand and pardon the people after they had deserued se great punishment for worspiping the golden Idoll of the Calfe in the wildernes Lord saith Moses this people hath committed an horrible sinne and they haue erected golden Gods Forgiue them this sinne Lord or ells if thou wilt not dash me out of thy booke to which thou hast written This gouernour and this priest praied not after a common sort for pardon of the peoples punishment but he claimeth it wish confidence and in a manner requireth it as by his iurisdiction and office Such was the force of praier and priesthood before Christs spirituall souer aignitie was honoured in the worlde otherwise then in a figure And yet god in a manner was at that point with them then that he would pardon punish at their pleasures For when the sinne was exceeding greeuous he maketh as it were meanes to Moses that he should not stay him nor his anger from punishing of the offendors Let me alone Moses saith our Lord suffer me to be angrie FVLKE Men may iustly maruell that you professing methode doe set the Cart before the horse and frame of your building the roofe before the foundation but if they consider that this way you take is of more force to confounde a simple witte then to teach a matter plainlie they maie cease to maruell and acknowledge that the compasse of your cause whereof you speake in the beginning will abide none other order But to the matter and argument of this Chapter it hath bin answered before that in the discipline of the Church the gouernours thereof haue power vpon good consideration and triall of the offenders repentance and not otherwise at their pleasure to release enioyned time of repentance which was enioyned for none other end so much as to bring the party to repentanes and thereof to assure or satisfie the Church But as the discipline of the Church militant serueth for the onelie time of her warfare in this life so the gouernors of the Church haue no authoritie either to inioyne or to release out of the compas of this life And therefore this power of binding loosing vpon earth cannot be extended to anie purgatorie paines or rather pickpurse after this life and consequentlie it can be no shadowe to couer the filthie and blasohemous nundination and chaffering of the Popes pardons for thousands and hundreth thousands of yeares What authority the ministers of the Church haue in remitting sinnes hath beene handled sufficientlie before They are Gods messengers to declare his forgiuenes to them that trulie repent and so they are to release the bande of discipline in open offenders where the fruites of repentance doe appeare Your argument that the priesthood in the new law is of more power to purchase mercie then in the

FAVLTES ESCAPED IN THE first Booke Pag. 2. lin 37. Wylie 15. 11. vainelie 62. 21. renforce 64. 35. come 65. 8. the. 82. 8. runneth forth almost into ouer great 90. in the marg ad illumin 91. 4. soone 103. 28. immortall 111. 16. litterallie 118. 13. textes 33. as expreslie 124. 33. left 126. 13. one of other 130. 24. Spanianum 156. 32. without confusion 169. 26. brandes 177. 29. which with 184. 15. learned 186. 5. contra 206. 37. put out that 212. 8. hic 29. fiat hoc 215. 22. 〈◊〉 228. 1. is 237. 28. some 239. 17. haue 240. 30. a thought yet raueth 256. 8. dare not 274. 21. greatest fault 279. 31. Pacianus 280. 10. quotations 282 5. remaineth 299. read the 9. line before the 8. 309. 22 Ioh. 1. 321. 18. He faith 324. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 333. 8. de gen ad Lit. 336. 17. de Sp. S. 30. it is 36. not whatsoeuer 337. 36. suppose 351. 3. euer 352. in the marg cont 3. in margine 353. 37. is the. FAVLTES ESCAPED IN THE second booke Pa. 4. l. 2. to 7. 19. disorder 22. 9. euer 41. 12. to God 13. put out to 44. 33. to the. 49. 34. in the marg put out Allen. 37. where 103. 16. For. 114 8. Matthie 115. 1. thisplace 128. 23. the. 138. 2. expound 158. 6. grounded 173. 30. at hand 177. 24. strong ones 184. 2. by himselfe or by his saints and therefore remission ofsinnes by himselfe 186. 15. saide 201. 35. of mutuall offence 212. 5. but from 222. 1. as 〈◊〉 35. eordes 251. 36 Christes 311. 2. demurre 314. 3. that 〈◊〉 ters 17. Monkes 324. 28. delegaui 325. 33. put out 〈◊〉 334. 14. both 341. 1. halfe 35. deemed 342. 26. no 〈◊〉 345. 13. consortatiues 346. 33. false 350. 29. to the. 366. 27. 〈◊〉 30. I. 369 28. prostant 398. 15. mony 483. 30. put out not 521. 34 the marg 1. Ioh. 5. 529 2. and figures In the answere to Prarine p. put out the note in the marg TO THE READER AGainst this Popish and trayterous defense of the proude Censures giuen vpon Master Charkes and M. Hanmers bookes there hath bene alreadie set forth an answere conteining a maintenaunce of the creditte of those excellent Ministers and Elders of Gods Church which this malitious slaunderer hath sought to deface for staie of the simple reader till Master Charkes booke come forth There hath also bene printed and set forth by Doctor Fulke a briefe confutation of sundrie cauills and quarrel vttered by diuerse Papists against his writinges and speciallie by this Censurer in this his booke of defense whereby some parte of his vnhonest dealing is displayed to the discredite of this defender and to the shame of all Papists Neuerthelesse vnderstanding that Master Charke is not minded 〈◊〉 set forth his answere although he haue it 〈◊〉 written before this defender hath 〈◊〉 his wholl booke as he promiseth I haue thought it not amisse to write a shorte treatis for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the matters of doctrine especially which are in controuersie betweene M. Charke and the Censurer either omitting or but breiflie touching the points handled more at large in the two 〈◊〉 books Neither do I thinke M. Charkes staying to be misliked for diuerse causes First to auoyd confusion which might ensue if the defender should replic vpon his answere to the first parte before the confutation of the second parte were finished published Secondlie to auoyd misunderstanding for that diuerse pointes touched in the first parte may be more at large and otherwise handled in the latter parte vpon vew whereof Master Charke would change his answere And last of all lest replying and reioyning vpon the first parte might be occasion that the latter parte should neuer be handled For which reasons and some other perhaps better knowne vnto him-selfe indifferent readers may gather that it is expedient for him to staie vntill he see the wholl charge of the aduersarie and then more orderly and seasonablie he may publish his answere altogeather But now to the purpose taken inhande Three tall fellowes step forth vpon this bulwarke of defense the Corrector of the printe the setter forth of the booke and the graunde Captaine defender himselfe The Corrector commeth forth with his parte to stoppe a gappe or emptie place of a page with the reall 〈◊〉 of a nowne Heretike and that presuming as he 〈◊〉 without the authors knowledge to wise a man belike to be made priuie of such gramaticall trifles But whereas he weeneth that by reading his authors treatise a man shall see the moste points verified in Master Charke and his companions he is fouly beguiled For there is no wise man but seeth all the pointes of his newlie deuised declension throughly verified in his author and his Complices who hath shewed himselfe to be not in one but in all cases a proude maleperte Lyar and an obstinate seditious Atheist 〈◊〉 hereunto an impudent heretike and a malitious traytor And if any man be so simple that he cannot yet perfectlie be holde all these pointes in his owne treatise yet in the answeres and confutations thereof he that will not acknowledge them to be verified in him is like to proue a nowne of the same declension with him Thus the Owlie Corrector hauing shotte his bolte out of the bulwarke which by euil happe of a contrarie winde is caried backe against him selfe and his owne freinds retireth into a corner and doth no more appeare sauing that some notes of his negligence here and there bewraying him do declare that this was not the first time that he was ouerseene in his life that he should haue done his Master better seruise if he had imploied the time he spent in deuising this grammatication in being occupied more diligentlie about his office of Correction The setter forth of this booke hath the next place who writing an epistle to Master Charke minister as he termeth him and as he is indeede of the Church of god in England vnder colour of expostulation of some particuler matters concerning the person of M. Charke taketh occasion to be a setter forth not onelie of a seditious slaunderous booke against the Church but also of moste spitefull accusations against the prince and Magistrates of the realme a sin the particuler vew of this epistle shall moste manifestlie appeare First therefore he excuseth the long delaie of setting forth this defense of the Censure which hath beene deferred more moneths then the Censure was daies in writing vpon such cause as is easie to iudge and speciallie to Master Charke which for the moste parte is priuie to the same The meaning is that the author is so quicke a dispatcher of his matters partely by meanes of the weakenes of our cause partelie by singuler dexteritie of his owne wit and learning that hauing finished his Censure in eight or nine daies space at the moste he coulde also in like proportionable time haue

accomplished his defense if he had not by the cause pretended beene stayed or interrupted And here the author is much beholding to the setter forth that doth so cunninglie commende his facultie in expedition of such writings which in a Papist must needes be an argument of great and wonderfull promptnes both of wit learning though in a protestant it be gyrded at by the author him-selfe with a scorneful reproche of rashnes and ignorance But what is the cause trowe ye that hath stopped the force of these flowing streames of the authors eloquent style that in so many monethes he hath not fullfilled that course which without impediment he had beene able to haue dispatched almost in as fewe daies Euerie one sayth he may imagine how difficult a thing it is in England for a catholike man to write any booke where neyther libertie nor rest nor librarie nor conference nor being is permitted But I praie you sir if I may be so bolde to aske you what greater libertie rest lybrarie conference or being had your Catholike author in contriuing his Censure which he wanted in writing his defense Or rather what cause had he to complaine of the difficultie of the tymes which with such facultie in so shorte a tyme could performe so greate and waightie a peece of worke as by his owne iudgement who you know is nothing partial in his owne cause deserued to be called by the honorable name of a Censure vnles perhaps you thinke that either the Prince her Councell or the Cleargie of the realme should haue inuited him to write against the religion of God and the state of the realme with promis of libertie rest librarie and all other thinges the lacke whereof you pretend to haue hindred him And yet whatsoeuer you say in generall you confesse in particuler that all difficulties notwithstanding the author had soone after M. Charkes replie to his Censure in greate parte dispatched his defense readie for the printe but that by misaduenture your seditious printe was discouered and taken with many things printed or in printing concerning your defense of trueth and equitie against his falshoode and violent oppressions That you speake against M. Charkes falshoode it is lawful for you to renew if you can discouer any committed by him As for his violent oppressions being a man of noe power or authority out of the Church al may know how vainly you charge him or rather how lewdlie in speaking to him you speake of the lawful proceedings of the Prince and all her magistrates against Popish traytors terming them no bettet then violent oppressions when God knoweth you haue but in a few yet tasted of most iust condemnations and executions Oflike stomach and style it is that you say the same print was so long sought and much feared by him By like he thought that your printe being taken you had noe meane to publish your authors defense against him as though you haue not printers enow in places beyonde the sea How daungerous an vnknowne printe within the lande may be to the state if it be abused by seditious persons no man of meane vnderstanding can be ignorant and therefore meruell not if the magistrates haue beene carefull to search for it and diligentlie to suppresse it being founde But of this disturbance as you tell vs had like to haue come a greate losse for the author had almost giuen ouer his enterprise of defense not onely vpon these difficulties alleadged but also because Master Charkes replie did seeme sufficientlie to answere it selfe A pitifull case but how did the replie answere it selfe so sufficientlie He telleth vs it was so obscure in many places as moste men without the Censure might not vnderstande it Admit it were so is the obscuritie of a replie a sufficient answere to it selfe but why might not he that could not vnderstande it haue recourse to the Censure whereunto his replie had relation Then he answereth for a second reason It was so weake otherwise as it needed litle confutation of others This will best appeare by the authors doughtie defense when both are compared and examined together A third reason Campian the subiect of the Censure being fallen into Master Charkes handes it was looked for that according to reason and all his promisses he should be disputed withall openlie publikelie and freelie and so the matter without writing dispatched No man is so simple but he may well perceiue that while the wordes are directed to Master Charke they are ment against the Prince and state For who can trulie say that Master Charke had Campian in his handes or that he had made promis of open publike and free disputation whoe knew full well that he was not able to performe such promis if Campian had beene taken or that any man of our profession made any one such promis what meaneth then our setter forth by these his wordes and all your owne promises but thorough fayning of many promises to slaunder vs of many breaches of faith and much falshoode This is in Poperie and Knauerie a common practize to charge men with a promisse where none was that they maie ouercome modestie with impudencie or at left to make her blush beeing vniustlie accused of vnfaithfulnes But you will saie it was according to reason that Campian should haue beene so disputed withall if there had beene no promise at all Great reason forsooth that a well knowne vaine light runnagate person challengeing all the graue wise and learned of the land to disputation should so greatlie be regarded that his chalenge should be taken Nay that an arrant traytor furnished with faculties from the Pope the Queenes open enemie whose banner of defiance at the same time was spread within her Maiesties dominions should be admitted vnder colour of an open disputation to stir vp the vnconstant people to tumult and sedition as though the religion so long by lawe established were now brought into doubte and disceptation Finallie it was small reason in wise mens iudgement that such a lustie Champion as did first cast his gloue of defiance out of a secret corner after he hath beene long sought for is at length drawne out of the bench holl shoulde be set on the open stage to answere his challenge against al commers with no smal glory of his foole hardy attempt though he loose the daie and be vanquished in the cause Neuer the lesse it pleased them that had authoritie partelie to represse the insolencie of the proud peeuish challenger and his foolish fautors that made no small accounte of such a glorious Thraso pattelie to satisfie the weake mindes of such as might surmize of his bragges otherwise then they deserued there was a conference or disputation graunted wherin although Campians learning was well knowne before to all them that knew his bringing vp and studies yet was it then throughlie discouered to many others which conceiued better of him before then at that time shewed manefestlie to be in him For

besides his shamefull ignoraunce in the learned tongues which he sought most rediculoussie to couer and hide there appeared in him to all indifferent mens iudgements no more then is writen of Catiline the Romane whome he followed as well in practize as he resembled him in qualities Loquentiae multum sapientiae parum many words little wisdome impudent loquacity smale learning lesse iudgement But when it came to the hearing of the worlde sayth the setter forth how courteouslie you had vsed this learned man with torments The world here signifieth the secretrable of trayterous papists which giue themselues to no thing more then either to heare or inuent most impudent lies against religion al mainteyners professors of the same For to omitte the common phrase of this epistle wherewith all thinges that are done against the papists are imputed to M. Charke whom al reasonable men knowe to be one of the moste that may doe lest in these cases who is so farre from all sense or vnderstanding if he know what racking meaneth to beleeue that Campian endured such torments of racking whereof no signe could appeare in any part of his body either before the conference or after whereby he should be lesse hable to dispute as may be prooued by many hundred witnesses yet the glorious foole partly to boast of his sufferings partly to excuse his impatience and pusillanimity which for feare rather then feeling of the racke had discouered many of his friendes complices with his owne hand writting immediately after his racking was not ashamed on the day of the first conference to complayne of his grieuous torments vntil by testimony of Master Lieuetenant of the Tower and others that were present his impudencie was so restrained for that time that he thought it not best to bragge any more of his intollerable racking But in the conference say you he was handled without all indifferencie or law of reasoning How so I praie you The questiones were taken out of his owne booke in which he could not bevnprouided he had as great warning of them as any of his aduersaries he required no booke to furnish his memorie but it was prouided for him the opponents for the moste part dealt with him in lawfull syllogismes except when his owne lauish tongue discoursing against the lawe of reasoning enforced other manner of communication he was neither threatned nor reuiled though he gaue great occasion by his insolent speach gesture He was pressed with no authority but the booke was shewed him what other indifferencie or lawe of reasoning would you require But it is no maruell though you dare be bolde to quarrell at his handling in the conference when you are not ashamed to speake so impudently of his open trial and condemnation saying Finally you made him away by cruel death without any shew or shadow of particu lar crime committed by him against Prince or countrey This were more then barbarous immanitie if it were true but being false what is it but a most heynous and sedi tious slaunder whether you consider the matter or the persons against whome it is vttered Let vs begin with the persons Who made Campian away not M. Charke I am sure for all men would laugh at you if you so should say for immediatlie after you distinguish him from that action saying and that your selfe Master Charke followed him in person Then whoe can be vnderstoode to haue made him away by cruell death but they by whose authoritie in whose highe Courte by whose order he was brought to triall by whome euidence verdite and sentence was giuen and execution commaunded Now let vs waigh the matter was he not in dighted arraigned found guiltie atteinted iudg ed according to the ordinarie accustomable manner alwaies vsed in the case of hie rreason according to the lawes of the realme had he not leaue to answere for him selfe to challenge the Iurie or to vse any other plea that is permitted and allowed in such cases was there noe shewe or shadowe of particuler crime conteined in the inditement or in the euidence The worlde knoweth it must needes be the recordes are yet to be seene But there was nothing prooued perhaps you will say though much was alledged against him he was slaundered by them that gaue euidence against him he neuer did beare a trayterous or vndutifull minde against the Prince or the state Well admit for Campians sake that the credit of sworne witnesses and the wholl processe of so honourable a state as is of this lande must stand in suspense and not prooue so much as any shew or shadow of treason committed by him yet what shall his owne confession subscribed with his hande testifie concerning his treasonable affection against her Maiestie shall it not confirme the testimonie of such as gaue euidence against him prooue him moste manifestly to be guiltie of high treason his owne confession taken the first of August 1581. subscribed with his hand remaineth to be seene in which after certaine moste trayterous sentences were shewed him out of the bookes of Saunders and Bristow concerning the Bull of Pope Pius by which he tooke vpon him by his Antichristian sentence to depriue her Maiestie of her regalitie and to discharge her subiects of all obedience and dutie towardes her highnes it followeth in these wordes Edmund Campian being demaunded whether he woulde acknowledge the publishing of these things before recited by Saunders Bristow Allen to be wicked in the wholl or in any parte and whether he doth at this present acknowledge her Maiestie to be a true and lawful Queene or a pretensed Queene and depriued and in possession of her Crowne onelie de facto he answereth To the first that he medleth neither to nor fro and will not further answere but requireth that they may answere To the second he saith that this question dependeth vpon the fact of Pius Quintus whereof he is not to iudge and therefore refuseth further to answere Edmund Campian Answered and subscribed in the presence of Owin Hopton Iohn Hammonde Robert Beale Thomas Norton Here except you will say that it is no treason in a naturall borne subiect of this lande though he refuse to acknowledge the Queenes Maiestie to be a true and lawfull Queene and in possession of her Crowne de Iure and though he will not in one worde disalow them that speake write practize against her right her Crowne and dignitie and seeke by all meanes they can to depose and disposesse her of the same there was neuer traytor more clearlie discouered by the testimonie of others then Campian is displayed by his owne confession I neede not here note the faculties graunted by the present Pope Gregorie the 13. to Campian and his fellowe traytor Parsons which were taken about one of their complices immediatelie after Campians death in which they desire of the Pope the explication or meaning of the Bull of Pius Quintus giuen

the arguments as of the answeres and when he repeated anie argument that he had written it was that the opponent might acknowledge that he had taken it truely As like wise he repeated Campians answere also who often times when he misliked it him-selfe either added or detracted or altered the same so that he weried the writer not a litle vntill it was set downe as he would haue it stand and as he would stand to it otherwise it had bene smal matter of applause that Master Charke should get to haue an other man vrge his arguments for him to the purpose as though he could not follow them himselfe sufficientlie so greate likeliehoode of trueth your surmises haue which yet you set downe as absolutelie as they were oracles of Apollo For which cause also you had Master Norton the rackemaster c. But how well do you remember the rule of ciuilitie in wordes whereof you are such a rigorous exactor in other men that so reprochfully scoffe at M. Norton who besyde his rare giftes of witte learning and wisedome was of speciall trust with other appointed by the Prince and her moste honnorable councell to examine such as were thought meete to be tried or terrified with the racke therefore in respect of the authoritie by which he dealt in those cases neither in ciuilitie nor in christianitie deserued the odious and opprobious name of a rackemaster Againe you pittie the case that we durst not make those few disputations publike where more men might haue laughed bene witnesses of our folly c. No no if we had parted with Master Campian but at an euen hand as we ioyned with him with all inequallitie you shoulde haue had bookes of triumphset forth before now this secret of ours al the people of England doth knowe What secret of ours be like that we durst not make these disputations publiker by printing the report thereof For otherwise there were witnesses enow at the hearing of them But now all the people of England know that you lie impudently For the report of that conference hath bene imprinted almost this two yeares and neuer a papist of you all at home or abroad hath aduentured to controll it although there haue bene printed brags that you would shortly set'it out your selues to our shame You will say it is set downe by our selues or our owne friendes and consequently partially in reporte of Campians answers Admit it were so as in deede it is otherwise for Campians answers touching the substance of them and in his owne wordes are as trulie set doune as the opponents argumentes yet because the matter is not the victorie against Campians person but against his heresies if you thinke Campian or your cause haue iniurie by the report of his answers whie do not you shew either what his answers were or what they should haue bene to the auoiding of those argumentes that then were brought against him Which arguments as they were then propounded to Camipans person so now by publishing of them in print they are offered as a smal taste to al his fautors abbertors to answere them if they can better then Campian but a young nouis in popish diuinity was hable to doe But I suppose it much more easie for you to laugh at them in corners and smile in your sleeues in open presence then keeping the lawes of disputation to auoide the force of them As for the vaine glory whereof you dreame that we be so greedie you see by differring the publication of that conference so long that we could wel haue forborne it altogether if vour insolent bragging false surmising impudent slaundering and childish daring had not in a manner extorted the setting forth thereof The example you bring of our desire of praise by Doctor Fulke looking into Wisbige Castle is by the same man sufficientlie answered with all other quarrells that you picke against his writings in a seuerall treatise annexed to his defense of the English translations against Gregorie Martine and therfore there needeth not anie other confutation of those slaunders and cauills then is alreadie set forth But with what inequalitie did we ioine with Campian by meanes whereof he might be lesse hable to make his partie good We know you saie the inequalitie whereby we dealt with that man being but one vnbooked vnprouided wearyed with imprisonment and almost dismembred with the rack threatened and terrified with death to come appointed onely to answere and neuer to oppose yea all this wee know and the world both knoweth and marueileth at it abroad The world maie maruell at his arrogancie in making such a proude challenge and at your impudencie in defending his insufficiencie with such manifest vntrueths First you saie he was but one and the world knoweth there were but six of more then six hundreth whome he challenged hable to haue incountred with a greater giant then he was that at seuerall times had conference with him He being but one with manifest note of intollerable pride prouoked al the learned of England and do you complaine that being but one he was assaied by so few of so greate a number as he challenged There was but one that challenged all and therefore it was thought meete that this one should be a litle discouered partelie to represse the insolencie of him-selfe and of his friendes partlie to satisfie the weakenes of some ignorant persons that might imagine there was some greate matter in his bold challenge who shewed therein the greatest follie that could be if it had notserued for an other subtill practize Hewas vnbooked you saie but in deede he was licensed to haue what bookes soeuer he would call for Canisius great Catechisme he required and had which he saide should be vnto him instar omnium Vnprouided he could not be being opposed in his owne booke or at lest wise could not complaine of it hauing as long time to consider of the questions as his aduersaries had His imprisonment had not bene so long before the conference nor his keeping so straite that his witts could be dulled or his memorie quailed in so short a time of fiue or six weekes That he was either almost or anie thing at all dismembred or distracted in bodie with the racke is a most false lie and shamelesse slaunder although he bragged as of his suffering by the rack which he rather saw then felt as Master Lieuetenant told him It is as false that he was threatened or terrified with death by anie of the disputers If he were terrified in minde with conscience of his treasons to feare that death which he knew he had deserued there was none to blame but him-selfe Otherwise his behauiour was not like one that feared death as it was afterward when death in deede was present before his eies Finallie that he was appointed onelie to answere and neuer to oppose it was noe disaduantage to him if he had maintained a true cause and had beene that man of

fastidia detergeret Nihil enim fere de illis obscuritatibus eruitur quod non planissimè dictum alibi reperiatur The holie ghost hath magnifically and wholsomlie so tempered the holy scriptures that with euident places he might satisfie hunger and with more darke places might wipe awaie disdainfulnes For nothing almoste is found out of those obscurities which is not found els where most plainlie vttered It were no hard matter to heape vp manie testimonies of the auncient fathers to this purpose but that the va nitie of this answerer appeereth sufficientlie in all our bookes written against the papists in which not onely by the manifest places of the scriptures but also by most euident testimonies of the doctors of the church we confute them in the most and greatest matters of controuersie that ate betweene vs. But what saith our gallant answerer that the councels fathers and anciters of theChurch haue from time to timedeclared the true sense of the scriptures vnto vs hath none of these at any time erred in expounding the scriptures may we safely beleeue them whatsoeuer they say He wil I warrant you deny it except the Pope of Rome do alow their interpretations And therfore this flying from the only scriptures to the interpretation of Coun cels fathers ancetors of the Church is nothing els but an impudent shift to reserue vnto the Pope liberty authority to make what meaning of scripture they please thereby to giue colour to euery fansie they list to father it vpon the authority of the holie scriptures The third cause he affirmeth to be that by chalenging of onely scripture they maie deliuer themselues from all ordinan ces or doctrines left vnto vs by the first pillers of Christs Church though not expressely set down in the scripture c. In deede to deliuer our selues from the burthen of mens traditions the ordinances or doctrines of men we affirme the holie scriptures to be hable and sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation by faith in Iesus Christ as the Apostles and principall pillers of the Church haue taught vs who haue left no such ordinances or doctrines but they be either expressely set down in the holy scriptures or by plaine and necessarie collection to be gathered out of the same For how will our aduersaries prooue that anie thing is receaued from the Apostles which hath not testimonie out of the writings of the Apostles who can be a sufficient witnes of such de liuerie seeing manie things were of olde referred to the Apostles tradition which euen our aduersaries do not admit to be Apostolical seeing the most auncient and immediate successors of the Apostles as Polyearpus Anicetus can not agree about a ceremony receaued from the Apostles namelie the celebration of Easter what certentie can there be of anie other ordinances or doctines fathered vpon the Apostles without witnes of their writings yea and some times directlie contrarie and repugnant to their writings But hereof saith our aduersarie they assume authoritie of allowing or not allowing whatsoeuer liketh or serueth their turnes for the time and hereof he bringeth example First of the number of sacraments whereof some protestants haue written diuerslie because the name of sacrament is diuerslie taken sometimes largelie for euerie holie signe sometimes strictlie for such holie signes onely as being instituted of God are seales of the dispensation of his generall grace in the new teftament perteining to euerie member of the Church somtimes for al holy mysteries or secrets c. But what doth it serue anie protestants turne whether there be more or fewer signes in number that maie be called sacraments seeing all protestants agree about the things themselues that are set forth in the scriptures to be visible signes of grace inuisible and the name it selfe Sacrament in that sense we speake of when we saie there are 2. 3. 4. or 7. sacraments is not once vsed This diuersitie therefore is but of a terme and that not vsed in scripture therefore it ariseth not of anie interpretation or peruerse vnderstanding of the scripture as our answerer would haue it seeme to be But let vs heare his example Martin Luther saith he after he had denied all testimonie of man besides himselfe he beginneth thus about the number of sacraments Principiò neganda mihisunt septem sacramenta tantúm tria pro tempore ponenda First of all I must denie seauen sacraments and appoint three for the time Marie this time lasted not long for in the same place he saith that if he would speake according to the vse of onely scripture he hath but one sacrament for vs that is baptisme In this sentence how manie lies and slaunders be packed together First he saith Martin Luther denieth all testimonie of man which is false for he alloweth all testimonie of man that agreeth with the testimonie of God expressed in the scriptures and often citeth the testimonies of the auncient fathers for confirmation of the trueth which he taught indeede he alloweth man no authoritie to institute sacraments or to make articles of faith or lawes to binde the conscience of man and he would haue all mans testimonies to be examined and iudged according to the word of God but this is not to denie all testimonie of man but to distinguish true testimonies of man from false An other slaunder is where he saith that Luther in denying all mans testimonie excepteth him selfe which is altogether vntrue For he requireth none other credit to be giuen to his owne testimonie then he alloweth to the testimonie of other Neither doth he arrogate any authoritie to him selfe which he derogateth from other men And namelie in this booke of the captiuitie of Babilon he taketh not vpon him absolutelie to teach euerie point but so farr forth as he did for the present vnderstand of them promising after greater study more diligent inquirie to intreat of diuers of them more certenly euen in this verie place of the number of the sacraments he saith he will admit three onclie for the present time intending to be further a duised whether there be fewer or more to be entituled with that name Wherein our answerer offereth him the third iniurie in translating tria pro tempore ponenda I must appoint three for the time as though Luther had taken vpon him to appoint how manie sacraments the Church should haue or would challenge power to appoint more or Jesse at his pleasure where as his wordes if the answerer did not wilfullie corrupt them by false translation do import no such thing but onelie as farr as he did presentlie see there were no more but three of those that were commonlie called sacraments of the new testament which were rightlie to be called by that name The fourth slaunder is that Luther hath but one sacrament for vs which is Baptisme if he would speake according to the vse of onelie scripture yea this is a double slaunder for neither doth

abstinencie from wine and strong drink his dailie excercise of praier and contemplation when he was alone his diligent and zealous preaching and baptifing when the multitudes came to him his free and earnest rebuking of all mens sinnes euen those that were greatest in credit the Pharises the Saduces the high Priests and the King him-selfe All these ioyned together are such arguments of austeritie and seueritie of life as not onelie all antiquitie but all ages past present and to come may worthelie wonder at as for the place the garment the dyet be not matters of so great admiration of themselues neither so wondred at of all antiquitie as he bableth not yet followed of his Mocke-monkes and false Eremites that either the wildernes is their dwelling or the Camels heare their weede or the locusts and bitter honie their diet or anie thing answering to these in hardnes Their Monkes dwell in palaces their Eremites in fine houses neere to cities and great townes their apparell though in fashion disguised yet neither rough nor hearie nor of smalest price their dyet like Princes and noble men the life of the greatest parte of them idle and lasciuious Therefore to their owne shame they may account Ihon Baptist the Prince or first author of their Monkish order whome they follow as neare in austeritie of life as they much come behind him in course of time I trust all reasonable men may now vnderstand what these vnlearned quarrels come vnto when they be discussed and examined howsoeuer they seeme to be bolstred out with impudent asseuerations multitud of quotations false cauillations and vnnecessarie collections In the rest therefore I wil be more briefe because my purpose is not to handle common places of controuersies at large but shortlie to discouer the vanitie and pride of this answerer and leaue such matters to other treatises where they be fullie answered A third example he taketh of our impertinent interpretation about the controuersie of the reall presence in the sacrament which is nothing els but a beggerlie crauing of a matter still in question which can beare no shew of of anie lawfull example except it were cleere against vs that our exposition were beside the text or contrarie to it But peraduenture this fellow will bring some new matter that hath not beene heard of in this cause to conuince vs of absurd interpretations First he saith they haue these wordes of scripture repeated in foure seuerall places This is my bodie If we did vtrerlie denic the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ in anie sense it were somewhat that he saith against vs But we graunt it to be the bodie of Christ in such sorte as Christ did meane by those wordes Contrariewise we shew the one part of the sacrament to be six times called bread after the consecration in the scripture the other part twise or thrise to be called the fruite of the vine yet your gare interpreters the Papists do vtterlie denie the one to be bread the other to be wine in anie sense but monstrous and imperceptible and that against the iudgement of all antiquitie and the plaine wordes of diuerse auncient doctours But all antiquitie to our answerer a great antiquarie as you shall sec by and by are so cleere for the Popish reall presence as no man might without great offence doubt thereof as the wordes of Saint Ambrose and Saint Cyrill are These bookes that he quoteth of lib. 4. de sacram C. 5. for Ambrose and Catech. 4. for Cyrill are not so without controuersie acknowledged to be so auncient as those fathers whose names they beare and yet they saie nothing in this cause of not doubting but we are readie to saie the same Namelia that Christ hauing said this is my bodie no man ought to doubt but that it is his bodie They haue also other wordes to declare that their meaning was not of the popish manner of presence but the spirituall manner of eating of Christs flesh where of the externall sacrament is a figure and similitude as Ambrose de sacr lib. 4. cap. 4. 5. de iis qui my ster init cap. 9. The same Cyrill also though much to be suspected for his antiquitie as verie latelie come into light yet saith in the same place that the bodie of Christ is to be receiued by fatih not as the Capernaites imagined which thought they had been prouoked to the cating of a mans flesh But that same Cyrill saith our answerer in another place prooueth at large that to aske onelie quomodo how it may be is the parte of an vnbelecuing Iewe quoteth lib. 4. in 10. cap. 13. In deed Cyrillus Alexandrinus affirmeth and we subscribe vnto him that to aske how God can doe that he said he wil doe commeth of Iewish incredulitie He saith not that it is a part of an vnbeleeuing Iewe to ask how Christs words are to be vnderstood figuratiuely or properlie carnallic or spirituallie Neither doth he speake in the place alledged of Christes reall presence in the sacrament but of the question of the Iewes how Christ could giue his flesh to be eaten which we beleeue verilie he doth not one lie in the sacrament but euen to infants which neuer receiued that sacrament or els we must exclude them from eternall life according to his words except ye eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his blood you shall haue no life in you But now you shall plainlie see how skilfull this answerer is in all antiquitie whereof he talketh so often and so confidentlie as bayard is alwaies the boldest horsse The same Cyrill saith he speaking of him vnder whose name are caried those my stagogical catechesis is he that wrote vpon Iohns gospell c. whereas the one was Bishop of Ierusalem in Palestine the other of Alexandria in Egypt the one not much nearer in time to the other then the prouinces where they were Bishops are in place For Cyrill of Ierusalem was a verie olde man in the time of the second generall Constantinopolitane councell Cyrillus of Alexandria was president of the third generall councell of Ephesus the first betweene which two Councels there was aboue fortie yeares distance in tyme. By which note of grosse ignorance it is manifest that this scorneful proude answerer hath neuer seene the workes of the one Cyrill nor of the other but one lie the quotations and collections of other men which he vseth as vauntinglie as they were all of his owne reading yea if they be not pregnant inough for his purpose he will make no bones to falsefie their sayings cleane contrarie to their meaning as he dealeth with Epiphanius whome he affirmeth to saie That albeit the hoste seemeth to vs of arounde forme and insensible yet whosoeuer beleeueth it not to be the true bodie of Christ is fallen from grace and saluation whereas Epiphanius saieth expresselie it is of a round shape and insensible as concerning power and yet it is the

he nor Doctor Folke do vse any hereticall sophistrie to condemne all for the ill life of a fewe or to condemne a lawfull calling for the misbehauiour of them that are in that vocation and much lesse for that men liue not so perfectlie in the same as they did in the primitiue Church about which hereticall consequences manie words are spent in vaine But now let vs heare what you answer to such difference as Master Charke maketh betweene the olde monkes and the newe His wordes you recite in this manner It is a plaine iniurie saith he to match those auncient Monkes of the primitiue Church with those of the popish orders for the olde Monkes liued in their house without vowes as studentes in diuinitie in Colledges they were holie painefull learned they laboured with their handes Their societies were nources of good learning and godlie life to furnish afterward the Church whereto being once called they ceased to be Monkes and left their monasteries Here first you charge him with bolde slaundering as though he said that all Monkes and sriers are vnlearned vnpainfull and vnholie whereas he saith not so knowing that some are vnlearned though neither all nor the moste part no not in this learned age manie friers also take paines in preaching which with more commendation and credit might holde their peace Yet fewe Monkes labour that waye As for labouring with the handes saie you though it be not necessarie to anie if they be occupied in greater matters yet their is no monasterie wherein some doe not exercise that function But Saint Augustine in his booke deopere 〈◊〉 holdeth it to be necessarie for all Monkes to labour and admitteth not the excuses of praying singing of Plalmes reading or preaching the word of God for anie to be priuiledged altogether from not labouring with his handes cap. 17. 18. That some in euerie monasterie with you are appointed to that function as you saie it is but a mockerie of the olde labour of Monkes and left for a shadow of some similitude with antiquitie and not taking awaie the difference set downe by Master Charke That manie Bishoppes are chosen out of monasteries and that Pius 5. chose 70. Bishoppes out of one order it is litle to the purpose For the olde monkes were not onelie chosen to the office of rich and statelie Bishoppes but to serue in the painefull office of teachers and pastours and were as Master Charke saith the nources of good learinng of the ministerie of the Church as your popish orders are not out of which they may not depart to serue the Church without a dispensation and capacitie as they call it Your iest of his poore benefice by London and the barbarres shoppe are both a like and the latter as well agreeth vnto him as the former seeing it is wel knowne he neuer had anie benefice rich or poore in London by London or farre from London The first difference you confesse to be the greatest although you speake of it last where you saie he affirmeth that the Monkes of the primitiue Church made no vowes the contrarie whereofyou prooue by manie testimonies of the auncient fathers and in the end you conclud against Master Charke asking what he will saie to this and much more that mighr be brought for this matter And maie he not blush saie yon to haue made In saing that the religion of the primitiue Church made no vowes so open and manifest alie But may not all modest Papists blush in your behalse seeing your owne forehead as it seemeth is hardned against shamefastnes for that you haue made so open and manifest a lie in saying that Master Charke affirmeth that the Monkes of the primitiue Church made no vowes whereas he saith not so but farre otherwise for these are his words they liued in their houses without any superstitious vowes Is it all one to saie they made no vowes to saie they made no superstitious vowes the like impudence you shew in charging him with cogging and foisting for placing his quotations of Saint Augustine in the margent right ouer against the matter of vowing which is both false and vniustlie laide to his charge the Printer had set them a litle wrie For the quotation beginneth right ouer against the name of Austen in the leafe or text although the taile of it extende to the line in which he speaketh of vowes The places that are quoted for vowes are speciallie against the mariage of them that haue vowed sole life yet haue we good testimonie of the fathers that such as are not able to keepe those vowes rashlie made ought to betake them-selues to the lawfull remedie of mariage Epiphanius Cat. Apostolic Haer. 61. Hieronymus ad Demetriadem c. Where M. Charke denieth Saint Augustine to be a Frier First you cauill which Austen he meaneth the Bishoppe of Hippone or of Canterburie and both you say were Monks and the later you make our first Apostle in England yet was he an Apostle from Gregorie not from Christ. What Doctor Fulke hath written of him he answereth in his confutation of Popish quarrels Pag. 43. But how prooue you that the elder Austen was a Monke as monkes were termed in his time you cite Ep. 89. tract 1. de com vita clericorum and Possidius or Possidonius in his life To the first quotation I answere that Saint Augustine in that epistle confesseth not that he was a Monke onelie he acknowledgeth that he once solde all that he had and gaue it to the poore But that he had priuate possession when he was Bishoppe Possidonius doth plainlie declare The second quotation is of no worke of Saint Augustines but of I know not what bable rule of some impudent counterfeiter whose style is as like Augustines as an asse is like a Lyon To the third I answere that the writer alledged saith that Austine when he was made prieste or elder of the Church of Hippo did institute a colledge or monasterie of studentes with in the Church which were especiallie appointed to serue afterward in the Church as they also that were afterwarde brought vp in other monasteries set vp by his schollers But neuertheles he neither calleth Augustine nor any of his schollers Monkes For these Monasteries by Augustine him-selfe are called diuersoria hostelles or Innes Demoribus eccl Cath. lib. 1. cap. 33. being distincte from Monkes which in those daies were onelie Anachorets or Caenobites both liuing in the wildernes whereas these liued within cities yet in streighter discipline then the common sorte vnder the gouernement of a verie Godly and excellent learned man in Christian charitie holines and libertie not in superstitious vowes are called by Augustine none otherwise but a laudable kinde of Christianes And all this maketh him neither Monke nor Frier You say he was not called so in English but in latine Frater and Monachus For the name of Monachus I haue answered that you are not hable to prooue it by authenticall author

your fault At the least it is your fault that in so straunge a report you haue not sette downe his wordes in latine if euer you sawe the preface your selfe As for the corrupt edition or often chaungeing of Luthers workes by him-selfe we haue not to do with it for whie might not Luther reforme his owne workes if ought in them were erronius or offensiue But it is a cauill that you adioyne of the confession of Auspurg whereunto the Germanes perhaps ascribe too much as Alasco writeth For though there be diuers editions thereof differing in wordes yet are they not contrarie in sense as appeareth by the harmonie of confessions latelie set forth at Gencua Now sir so much as we finde sounding toward your reporte I will sette downe that the reader maie iudge how vprightlie you do charge Luther with denying three of the foure Gospells Enarrat in epist. Petri argumentum Primùm omnium notandum c. First of all it is to be noted that all the Apostles do handle the same doctrine for which cause it is not well done that men do number but onelie foure Euangelistes and foure Gospells whereas whatsoeuer the Apostles haue left written is one Gospell For the Gospell signifieth nothing els but the preaching and publishing of the grace and mercie of God by our Lord Christ deserued and purchased to vs by his death and that thou maiest take it properlie it is not that which is conteined in bookes and is comprehended in letters but rather a vocall preaching and a liuing worde and voyce which soundeth into the wholl world and is so openly blowen out like a trumpet that it may be heard euerie where neither is it a booke which conteineth a law in which are many good doctrines as it hath beene commonlie taken heretofore for it doth not commaund vs to worke any thing where by we may become iust but it sheweth vnto vs the grace of God freelie and giuen without our meritte namelie that Christ hath beene our mediatour and hauing made satisfaction for our sinnes hath abolished them and made vs iust and saued by his workes Now whoesoeuer doth either preach or write these thinges he teacheth the true Gospell that which all the Apostles and peculiarlie Saint Paull and Saint Peter in their Epistles haue performed Therefore whatsoeuer is preached of Christ is one Gospell although one handle it after one manner an other man after another in diuerse manner of wordes do reason of it For the matter may be handled either in long or in short speach and be described either streightlie or largelie But seeing all perteineth to this end to teach Christ to be our sauiour and that we are made iust and saued by faith in him without our workes it is one word it is one Gospell as there is but one faith onelie and one baptisme in all the Church of Christ. Therefore thoureadest nothing writen by any of the Aposties which is not conteined in the monuments of the other Apostles But they which haue handled this point especiallie and with greater diligence that faith alone in Christ doth iustifie they are the best Euangelistes of all And in this respect you may more rightlie call the Epistles of Paul the Gospel then those which Matthew Marke and Luke haue written For these men describe not much beside the storie of the Acts and miracles of Christ. But the grace which is wrought vnto vs by Christ none doth sette forth more fullie or more rightlie then Saint Paul especiallie in the Epistle to the Romanes Now seeing there is much more moment in the word then in the factes and miracles of Christ and if we should want the one it were much better to lacke the Acts and history then the word and doctrine it followeth that shose bookes are to be had in highest price which handle the doctrine cheeflie and the wordes of our Lord Iesus Christ. Seeing that if there were no miracles of Christ extant and we were altogether ignorant of them the words were sufficient for vs without the which we could not so much as liue Therefore hereof it followeth that this Epistle of Saint Peter is to be accounted among the most excellent bookes of the new testament and is the true and pure Gospell as in which he doth nothing els but that which Paul and the other Euangelists do teaching sincere faith that Christ is giuen vnto vs which hauing taken away our offences doth saue vs c. This that he speaketh naming Matthew Marke and Luke say you signifieth some tooth against these three Gospells And what tooth I pray you because these three Gospells speake too much of good workes As though S. Paul in his Epistles and namelie in that to the Romanes doth not speake as much of good workes as all those three Gospells and Saint Peter though breeflie doe not speake as much in effect But in the preface in question you affirme that Luther hath these wordes The Epistles of Paul and Peter doe farre passe the Gospells of Matthew Marke and Luke which yet more prooueth Luthers euill opinion of those three Gospells I doubtnot albeit I neuer sawe the preface my selfe but Luther doth plainlie expresse in what respect the Epistles of Paul and Peter doe excell the histories of the Gospell written by Matthew Marke and Luke euen as he doth in this preface vnto his exposition of Saint Peter Because these Epistles are more occupied in setting forth the Grace of Christ and the fruit and benefit of his passion which no more prooueth his euill opinion of those three Gospells then when Christ preferreth Iohn the Baptist before al the Prophets it prooueth his euil opinion of all the Prophets or when he preferreth him that is least in the kingdome of heauen before Iohn Baptist it prooueth his euil opinion of Iohn Baptist. These brutish Papists thinke all men voide of common sense when they make such impudent conclusions As for your first charge that it is a false opinion and to be abolished that there are foure ghospels For the ghospell of S. Iohn is the onely faire true and principall ghospell when you can alledge the words of Luther in latine to iustifie your report and because we know not how to come to the sight of that preface will set downe two sentences that goe before them and as manie that followe them you shall receiue a reasonable answere But vntill you haue thus much performed I am perswaded you wil be as farre to seeke as Campian was for his reporre of Luther that he should call the Epistle of Saint Iames Stramineam strawie or like strawe And yet you take vppon you to shew the intollerable impudencie of Master Chark and his fellowes in the Tower against Master Campian for that he could not presentlie shew out of their bookes where these wordes are written by Luther especiallie of Master Whitaker whoe to the admiration and laughter of all other nations hath set forth in latine that Luther neuer

goeing into an other countrie be married to an other man Such counsell I gaue euen them when as yet the feare of Antichrist did holde me But now my minde were to giue farre other counsell and to such a husband which should with such craft beguile a woman I would laie hand on his lockes and pull him vehementlie as the prouerb is And the same I iudge of the woman although it be more rare then in men For it auaileth not anie thing to defraud the neighbour in such waightie causes as touch the bodie substance credit and happines it were needfull that he should be commaunded no tably to pay for such deceitfulnes Thus farre Luthers wordes truelie translated How say you now is not this sufficient to declare Luthers minde that he would reuoke his former counsell of priuie contract or flying awaie and compell the partie to an open diuorse But if anie man thinke this is not sufficient you shall heare what he writeth further concerning this matter while he rehearseth how many causes in Poperie are allowed for diuorces Decima quarta est quam supra recensui simaritus vxor impotentes euirati atque haec estynica inter octodecim illas causas que admatrimonium dissipandum sufficit quanquam ipsa 〈◊〉 obstringatur legibus priusquam tyranni earn permittant The fourteenth cause is that which I rehearsed before if the husband and wife be impotent and vnapt for generation and this is the onelie cause among these eighteene cause which is sufficient to dissolue the matrimonie although the same also be bound with many conditions before the tyrantes will permit it And yet againe speaking of those causes which he him-selfe allowed for diuorcement he saieth Quae nune personae segregari queant intersese videbimus Tres ergo causas noui ob quas diuortium fieri potest prima quae iam in superioribus recitataest cùm marious vxor impotentes ad rem fuerint membrorum aut naturae causa c. Now what persons may be separated one from an other we will see Three causes I knowe for which there may be diuorce The first when the husband and the wife are impotent and vnhable for the matter through cause of their members or nature howsoeuer that may be of which sufficient hath beene spoken Is not all this as plaine as can be that Lutherspeaketh of a diuorce necessarie to be had in that case As also in the same sermon afterward he teacheth that all diuorces are to be made by publike authoritie and with the knowledge and consent both of the common wealth of the Church or of one of them at the least Therefore that I maie rightlie vse your owne wordes against you which you doe vniustlie abuse against M. Charke Can this be excused from extreame impudencie and most willfull falsehoode against your owne conscience Defend this if you can with all the helpes and deuises of your fellowes er els let the reader by this one point of open dishonestie discouered iudge of the rest of your dealings and slaunderings of vs without all conscience both in your sermons and in your bookes c. Now whether he were a Papist or noe when he gaue this first counsell to such as heard shrift you moue the question and conclude against his plaine wordes as it seemeth that he was none Well let vs heare your reasons First you saie that many yeares after his conuersion he sloode in feare of the Pope and said nothing against con●ession How many yeares I beseech you For as soone as the Pope excommunicated him and condemned his writings to be burned at Rome he did open lie burne the Popes Canon law at Wittemberge which was Anno Dom. 1520. before that time he acknowledged the Popes authoritie and humblie submitted him-selfe to his Censure if either the grosse abuse of pardons might haue beene reformed or he him selfe conuinced by the scriptures to haue erred But from that time he neuer stoode in awe of the Pope as that open fact declared and there had passed but foure yeares before since he first began to inueigh against the abuse of pardons Your second reason is that it appeareth evidentlie by his wholl discourse in the place alledged where he saith plainlie beside other things that the Papists did seeke advantage against him for this opinion of his and to that ende did misreporte his wordes The wholl discouse I haue set downe that you may see how euidentlie it appeareth For that the Papists did slaunder him it is graunted but therebie it doth not euidentlie appeare that Luther at that time was no Papist For doth not one Papist slaunder another sometime was there not spight and malice betweene friers of other orders against them of that order that Luther was of especially the Dominicans which might cause them to peruert his words meaning As for other things beside and seeking aduantage against him for this opinion you sucked out of your fingers ends for in the wholl discourse there is no such matter Your third reason is that Papists teach no such doctrine but cleane contrarie as though some Papists haue not their priuate opinions which are not generallie receiued Neither is there any thing in substance but in circumstance contrary to the Papists doctrine in that counsell of Luthers For the Papists in the case of impotencie or frigiditie doe graunt a diuorce which Luther thought without triall of law might be made by priuate consent or in case of the impotent persons dislent by voluntarie departing of the other so that this reason disproueth him not to haue beene a Papist at that time any more then the rest The fourth reason is that putting such a thing in writing he should haue beene resisted presentlie if he had bene of your Church But that followeth not especiallie if the writing were not publike but priuate to a fewe gostlie fathers perhaps of his owne order and house and his aduise or opinion onelie not a matter obstinatelie defended And yet it appeareth that is was notwel brooked whē his enimies had an inkeling of it Your last reason is that it appeareth by his owne wordes and the computation of time when he wrote this booke that he had left Papistrie a good while before In deede if you can conuince vs by his owne wordes that he had left Papistrie when he gaue this counsell you haue some aduantage against Master Charke but that is yet to come As for the computation of time in which he wrote this sermon of Matrimonie wil not helpe you to prooue that he was no Papist when he wrote the shrifte aduise For he speaketh of it as of matter that was verie olde olim he saieth long agoe For the booke was written much about the time of his mariage which was fiue yeare after his open renouncing of the Pope before which time he was a Papist though in some points he began to espie the grosse errors of Papistrie But as

though you had not done him iniury enough alreadie you adde that in an other place he sayeth that if a man haue ten wiues or more fledde from him vppon like causes he may take more and so may wiues doe the like in husbandes Whereupon Alberus one of your owne religion noteth that Iohannes Leidensis tooke many wiues and one Knipperdolling tooke thirteene for his parte so that this doctrine was not onelie taught but also practized vpon Luthers authority I wil here like wiseset down the whol discourse of Luther in the place by you quoted Exegesi ad c. 7. ep 1. ad Cor. that the world may see whether there be a sparke of honestie or shamefastnes in Papists that make such impudent reports which may so easilie be disprooued For that which Luther speaketh of ten wiues fled from him is in a farre other cause then the cause of impotencie and nothing in the world fauoureth the pluralitie of wiues practized by the Anapabtistes whatsoeuer Alberus or any other hath written of whome there is iust cause to dout what he bath written because you are so false almost in all your reports of writers of our side As for the Anapabtistes it is certaine they practised not their polygamie vpon Luthers authoritie whome they did vtterlie abhoore and in open printed books accounted him for a notable false teacher Againe it is not like that Alberus beeing a Lutherane would father so grosse a lie vpon Luthers authoritie But let the reader marke what Luther writeth vppon these wordes of the text but if the vnfaithful depart let him departe a brother or sister is not in bondage subiect to such Hoc loci Paulus saith he fidelem coniugatum sententiam pro illo ferendo liberat vbi infidelis compar discesserit aut concedere non vult vt Christum sequatur eique copiare facit iterum cum alio matrimonium contrahendi Quòd verò hic diuus Paulus de Ethnico compare dicit idem de falso Christiano intelligendum est vs si alter coniugum alterum ad impietatem adigeret necilli permitteret Christum vita imitari tum liber hic sit solutus vt quicum libuerit se despondeat Quòd si hoc Christiano iure non liceret cogeretur fidelis infidelem suam comparem sequi vel inuitus repugnante natura viribus suis caelebs permanere magno cum animae suae periculo Id ipsum D. Paulus his denegat inquiens Quòd si eiusmodi frater aut soror seruituti non sit obnoxius neque captus neque venundatus sit ac si dicat in aliis causis vbiconiuges vnâ commorantur vt in debita coniugij beneuolentia id genus similibus alter alteri obligatus est nec sui 〈◊〉 est In 〈◊〉 vbi alter alterum ad impiam vitam cogit vel ab altero discedit ibiverò non est captiuus neque 〈◊〉 isti adhaerere porrò Quòd si captiuus non tenetur liberatus manumissus 〈◊〉 despondere se alters potest velutisi matrimonio coniuncius sibimortem oppetiissit Quid si 〈◊〉 coniugium non opportunè cederes vt alter alterum maritus vxorem vel è contra gentium in morem adeoque impiè viuere cogeret vel si alter ab altero fugeret donec tertium 〈◊〉 quartum coniugium attingeretur dareturne viro toties 〈◊〉 ducere quoties alia eiusmodi vt iam dictum est esset vt decem velplures 〈◊〉 viuentes transfugas haberet Et rursum licebitne vxori dectm aut plures qui iam omnes 〈◊〉 esse maritos Responsio D. Paulo non possumus obstruere os neque cumillo 〈◊〉 eius doctrina quoties necessum fuerit vti volunt verba eius aperta sunt Fratrem aut sororem liberos esse a coniugij lege si alter discesserit vel cum hoc habitare non consenserit Neque vt semeltantùm stat hoc dicit sed liberum relinquit vt quottes res postularit vel pergat vel consistat Neminem enim incontinentiae discrimine couictum vult vt eo captus teneatur alienae temeritatis malitiae causa In this place Paul setteth at libertie the faithfull maried person geuing sentence one his side where the vnfaithfull match shall departe or will not graunt that the other may follow Christ and giueth him leaue to contracte matrimony with another And that Saint Paul here sayeth of a heathen yokefellow the same is to be vnderstood of a false Christian that if any of the maryed persons would compell this other to impietie and not permit to follow Christ in life then is the party free to match in maryage with whome he listeth Which thing if it were not lawfull by Christian right the faithfll man should be compelled to followe his vnfaithfullmate or els against his wil his nature and strength repugning to remaine vnmaried with great daunger of his soule But that Saint Paull here denieth saying in such a brother or a sister is not subiect to bondage nor captiue nor solde as a slaue as if he said in other causes where man and wife dwell together as in the due beneuolence of mariage and such like cases the one is bound to the other and is not at libertie But in such where the one compelleth the other to impietie or departeth awaie there the other is not captiue nor compelled to cleaue to this person anie longer And if he be not holden as a captiue he is set at libertie and made free he may betroth himselfe to an other as if the other party that was ioyned in matrimonie to him were dead But what if the second mariage fall not outrightly that the one would compell the other the husband the wife or contrariwise to liue after the manner of the Gentiles and that impiouslie or if the one fledde from the other vntill the third or forth mariage were come vnto should the husband haue license so often to mary a new wife as the other is such a one as we haue said alreadie so that he should haue tenne or more wiues 〈◊〉 awaie from him yet liuing And againe shall it be lawfull for the wife to haue tenne or more husbands which are all come awaie from hit The answer We cannot stoppe Saint Paules mouth nor wrestle against him they that will vse his doctrine his words are plaine that a brother or a sister are free from the lawe of wedlock if the one depart or do not consent to dwell with the other Neither doth he say that this may be done once onelie but leaueth it free that as often as the case shall require he may 〈◊〉 proceede or stay For he will haue none to be cast into the daunger of incontinencie that he should be holden in 〈◊〉 thereby through cause of the rashnes or malice of another By this long discourse of Luthers own words let the reasonable reader iudge what occasion the Anabaptistes might iustlie take to defend their beastlie keeping of

many women together vnder the cloake of mariage by his authority or what carnall liberty of mariage Luther graunteh otherwise then the Apostle alloweth in the case of the infidels departure Albert he put the case of the second third fourth tenth or more beinginfidelis or false Christians which is altogether vnlikely and almoste vnpossible to come to passe For he that is once ridde of an vnfaithfull match being himselfe a good Christian will not 〈◊〉 take a wife but of Christian Religion and if he be deceuid twise it were mōstrous that he should be deceiued in his third choise But if he should wilfullie and wittinglie match with so manie knowne heathen women it would breed another case then Luther speaketh of and he were worthie to be cut of from the congregation of Christians as one that sheweth him-selfe to be a dissembling hypocrite rather then a faithful Christian. The fift doctrine that you reported of Luther is that if the wife will not come les the maide come Which M. Chark hath answered sufficientlie to be spoken of a third cause of diuorce when the woman shall obstinatelle refuse hir husbandes companie But this you saie cannot be excused either by M. Hanmers shameles denial or by M. Charks impertinent interpretation For you saie that this was practised in Germanie to all kind of lasciuiousnes yea among the Ministers them selues as Sebastian Flaske sometime a Lutheran Preacher doth testifie Here is vpon the testimonie of a lewd baudie knaues confession of his owne filthines for which it is like that he was banished frō the Church and so becam a papist a slaunder raised vpon the wholl ministery yea vpon the wholl nation of Germanes that professe Luthers Doctrine that by authoritie of Luthers writting they vse to call their maides to bed when their wiues will not come c. But to iustifie Master Charkes interpretation and to let the reader see the intolerable impudencie of this wretched defender I will set downe as I haue done in the rest Luthers wordes concerning the matter in question more at large by which it may appeare that Master Hanmer might iustlie denie the wordes to be Luthers where they were drawne so farre from his meaning After he hath shewed three causes of diuorce in his iudgement the first being impotencie the second adulterie the third desertion or forsaking he speaketh ofit in these words Tertia ratio est vbi alter alteri sese subduxerit vt debitam beneuolentiam persoluere nolit au habitare cum 〈◊〉 Reperiuntur enim interdum adeò pertinaces vxores quae etiamsidecies in libidinem prolaberetur maritus pro sua duritia non curarent Hic 〈◊〉 est vt maritus dicat Si tunolueris alia voler si domina nolit adueniat ancilla it a tamen vt antea iterum tertiò vxorem admoneat maritus coram aliis eius esiam pertinaciam detegat vt publicè ante conspectum Ecclesiae duritia eius agnoscatur reprehendasur Situm renuat repudiae eam in vicem Vasthi Esther surroga Assueriregis exemplo Porro hîc tu Diui Pauli 1. Cor. 7. imitaris verbis maritus proprij corporis potestatem non habet sed vxor Et vxer sui corporis ius non habet sed maritus Ne fraudetis vos mutuò niss vterque consenserit Ecce 〈◊〉 hîc fraudem 〈◊〉 Apostolus Nam in desponsione alter alteri corpus 〈◊〉 tradit ad matrimonij obsequium vbi ergo alter debitum obsequium negat tum alteri corpus 〈◊〉 deditum spoliat vi aufert quod propriè coniugij repugnat iuri immo coniugium dissipat Igitur hanc vxorem cohihere magistratus est atque interimere Hoc si 〈◊〉 magistratus imaginandum est marito suam 〈◊〉 vxorem à Latronibus raptam interfectam esse confiderandumque vt aliam ducat Ferendum est aliquando vt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tollatur spolieturque corpus tollerandum non est si vxor sese marito ipsademat praedetur aut ab aliis adimatur The third way is when the one withdraweth himselfe from the other so that he will not pay the due beneuolence or refuseth to dwel with the other For there are found women sometimes so obstinat that although their husbands should ten times fall into filthie lust such is their hardnes that they would not care Here now it is good time for the husband to saie if thou 〈◊〉 not another will if the mistres will not let the maide come but yet so that the husband before do admonish his wife the second and third time and discouer her 〈◊〉 also before other men that openlie and before the sight of the Church her hardnes may be knowne reprehended If then she refuse be thou deuorced from hir and in steed of Vasthi take Ester by the example of King Asuerus and in this case thou maiest leane vnto the wordes of Saim Paule 1. Cor. 7. the husband hath not the power of his owne bodie but his wife and the wife hath none authoritie of hir owne bodie but hir husband Doe not defraud one another except it be by consent of both Beholde the Apostle here forbiddeth fraud one both partes For in their betrothing they deliuer their bodies one to the other to the seruice of matrimonie Therefore where the one denieth the due seruice then he robbeth taketh away by force his body which he hath giuen to another which is properly repugnant to the right of mariage yea and dissolueth the mariage Therefore it is the Magistrates dutie to bridle his wife yea and to put hir to death This if the magistrat omit the husband must imagine that his wife is stollen awaie and slaine by theeues and consider how to marie another Is it to be borne at any time that a man should be spoiled and robbed of his owne bodie and is it to be tollerated if the wife doe take awaie and steale hir selfe from hir husband or be taken awaie by other Now reader it is thy part to iudge whether Master Charke haue made an im pertinent interpretation of Luthers wordes and whether any practize of such lascuiuiousnes as was touched can be defended by this doctrine of Luther Last of all whether there be anie honestie in the defender that faseth out the matter still as though Luther spake not of a cause of diuorce but of licentious lecherie to be committed with the maid so often as her mistres should chaunce to refuse her husbandes companie vppon anie occasion yea he rubbeth his forehead hardlie and saith to Master Charke when you are not ashamed to defend the doctrine ye are more bolde then the Lutheranes them-selues who for verie shame do suppresse the Germaine booke wherein it was written as Cromerus a Germane testifieth If the Lutheranes had beene so ashamed of the doctrine as you saie they were whie suffer they the latine booke to be so often printed As for suppressing of the Germane booke for verie shame

doth not he ouerthrow of all Christian commmon wealthes Luthers short answere to this is Hoc non de ciuilibus legibus sed de Ecclesiasticis dixi est sententi a Pauli Coll. 2. This I speake not of ciuill lawes but of Ecclesiasticall lawes and it is the sentence of Saint Paul Coll. 2. What foundation now doth he ouerthrow or teach of any Christian common wealth when he speaketh of the freedome of conscience from all constitutions of men These be the great monsters of impiety which cut the sinewes of al vertue do open the high way to all dissolution Wil you neuer be ashamed to slaunder their doctrine which you are not hable to confute But now for the bodelie and sensible conference of Luther with the deuill you wonder with what face Master Charke can denie it we wonder with what mouth you can affirme it That the Tygurines giue testimonie of it is a lie as I haue shewed before And the wholl discourse of Luthers wordes shall make manifest that his confession is onelie of a spirituall fight in minde no bodelie conference as Master Charke answered at the first His wordes in his booke de missa priuata vnctione sacerdotum are these Sed forsitan agnoscatis quàm firmis nitatur columnis vestra causa si in horam incidatis tentationum Eg o coram vobis reuerendis sanctis patribus confessionem faciam date mihi absolutionem bonam quae vobis opto quàm minimum noceat Contigit me semel sub mediam noctem subitò expergefieri Ibi Satan mecum caepit eiusmodi disputationem Audi inquit Luthere doctor per docte nostietiam te quindecim annis celebrasse missas priuatas quotidie Quià si tales missae horrenda essent idololatria c But peraduenture you may acknowledge vpon how sure pillers your cause leaneth if you fall into the howre of tentation I will make my confession before you reuerend holy fathers giue me good absolutition which I wish may hurt you least It happened that once I waked sodainlie about midnight There Satan began this disputation with me Hearken saith he thou verie wel learned Doctor Luther c. thou knowest also that thou hast saide the priuate Masse by the space of 15. yeares almost euerie daie what if such priuate Masses were horrible idolatrie c These words are manifest that Luther speaketh of a spirituall temptation such as euen good men are subiect vnto in which Sathan obiecteth vnto the conscience of men such things wherein they haue offended God moste greeuouslie The atguments that the deuill layeth against him are not so much against the Masse as against Luthers sinne to bring him in dispaire for saying masse being a sinfull man as appeereth by these wordes which he attributeth to the deuill Prome vbi scriptum est quód homo impius incredulus possit assistere altari Christi 〈◊〉 ac conficere infide Ecclesiae vbi iussit ac praecepit hoc deus Bring forth where it is written that an vngodly man an vnbeeleeuer may stand at the altar of Christ and consecrate and make the sacrament in the faith of the Church where hath God bidden or commaunded this For Luther had defended him-selfe and sought to quiet his conscience because he was an annointed priest because he celebrated in the faith of the Church although he was vnworthie in respect of the weakenes of his owne faith the multitude of his sinnes But this you clippe as your note booke serued you which was not of your owne gleaning Agè prome vbi scriptum est vbiiussit aut praecepit hoc Deus Goe to now shew me where the masse is written in scripture where hath God commaunded it and scoffe at the Protestants fashion of disputation and conclude that Luther not beeing able to answere finallie yelded to banish the masse vpon the deuills appointment which is a tale of a tubbe for there is no such conclusion but that Luther by faith in the merites of Christ ouercame this temptation For after his conflict described thus he proceedeth Hîc respondebunt mihi sanctissimi patres hîc ride bunt dicent tune es doctor ille celebris non nosti respondere Diabolo An ignoras Diabolis esse mendacem papè vestro merito vobis gratias ingentes ago pro tam suaui consolatione in re tanta Has tres voculas Diabolus est mendax ignorassem ego 〈◊〉 nisi monuissetis vos eximij theologotati Si papista essem omnium tentationum ruàis quem securum 〈◊〉 Satan negligeres vt ipsos negligit indulgentes suis cupiditatibus c. etiam talis gigas essem contra absentem hostem alacer fortis Sed si vobis sustinendi essentictus Diaboli audiendae disputationes non diu essetis cantilenam de Ecclesia veteri recepto more cantaturi equidem satis video in Dauid reliquis Prophetis qu àm grauiter luctentur ingemiscunt in his certaminibus similibus contra diabolum horribilem impetum eius Et Christus ipse quamuis sine peccato propter nos in quantis lachrimis in quibus angustiis agonizauit in his agonibus contra satanam Vrget enim in immensum corda nec 〈◊〉 niss repulsus verbo dei Et ego planè persuasus sum Emser um Oecolampadium similes his ictibus horribilib quassatio nib subitò extinctos esse Nec n. humanum cor horrer dum hunc ineffabilem impetum nisi deus illi adsit perferre potest Satan enim in 〈◊〉 oculi repente totam mentem terr oribus ac te nebris adobruit si nihil quàm hominem inermem verbo no instructum inuenit quasi digitulo totum 〈◊〉 Verum qui dem hoc est quód mendax sit sed eius mendacia non sunt simplicis artificis sed longè callidiora instructiora ad fallendum quàm humanus captus assequi possit Ipse sic adoritur vt apprehendat aliquam solidam veritatem quae negarinon possit atque eam adeo callidè versutè vrget acuit adeo speciose fucat suum mendacium vt fallat velcautissimos c. vtî cogitatio illa quae Iudae cor percussit vera Tradidi sanguinem iustum hoc Iudasnegare non poteratised hoc erat mendacium ergo est desperandum de gratia Dei Et tamen diabolus hoc mendacium hanc cogitationem tam violenter vrsit vt Iudas eam vincere non possit sed desperaret Proinde bone frater domine papista non mentitur Satan quando accusat aut vrget magnitudinem peccati ibi enim habet duos inconuincibiles graues testes legem dei nostram propriam conscientiam Non possum negare quòdreus summortis damnationis c. Sed ibi mentitur Satan quando vltrà vrget vt desperem de gratia Sicut Cain dicebat maius est peccatum meum c. Et ibi tum opus est in

to be one But whie doe you flie from the authority of your vulgare latine interpreter which in both places maketh the prohibition of concupiscence one commaundement in Exod. by adding the copulatiue which is not in the Hebrew but a pure negatiue Non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis 〈◊〉 eius c. Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours house neither shalt thou desire his wife c. In Deut. by leauing out the verbe which is in the Hebrew Non concupisces 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non domum non agrum non seruum non accillam non bouem non asinum vniuersa 〈◊〉 illius sunt Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours wife not his house not his field not his seruant not his maide not his oxe not his asse and whatsoeuer thinges are his By this translation your interpreter sheweth plainlie that he acknowledged but one commaundement against concupiscence although the sinne were set foorth in diuerse wordes And it is as great reason to make a seuerall commaundement for euerie worde that followeth as to make the concupiscence of the house one and of the wife another But you doe better to acknowledge the matter doubtfull as beeing no matter of faith and not defined by your Church because of the authority of so many aun cient fathers against you yet you haue no colour to shift of your Idolatrous woshipping of Images except you confounde the two first commaundements in one neither can you exclude the commaundement against concupiscence without consent except you deuide the tenth commaundement into two reteining the distinction that ought to be of euerie precept from other and making the law perfect which prohibiteth all sinne as I haue shewed before But it is a greater slaunder I weene that the Protestantes charge you to leaue out the second commaundement against Images where you doe but include it in the first As though you haue not in your English primers other bookes where you set forth the tenne commaundements altogether left out that precept as ten thousand bookes wil testify against you And as for your including is but a crafty hiding of it from the common people lest they should learne to detest your grosie Idolatrie and forsake your malignant Church as the mother of all abhominations against God and his true worship Your distinction of mentall adulterie from actuall adulterie and of mental theft from actual theft to make foure commaundements of two is grosse vnlearned For why should not mental murther mental disobedience or rebellion mentall slaunder or lying require enerie one a seueral commaundement distinct from actual murther actuall rebellion disobedience or treason actuall slaundering or lying And so in the wholl we should haue thirteene commaundements at the least Or els Master Charke hath truelie charged you to make the seuerall breaches of two diuerse commaundements but one sinne and the breach of one commaundement to make two seuerall kindes of sinne as you doe in the breaches of the commaundements against adulterie and theft Where our sauiour Christ saith expresselie that the looking on a woman with desire of lust is adulterie which he should rather haue saide according to your where is forbidden in the seauenth commaundement distinction it is sinne against the ninth commaundement which you saie is against mentall adulterie And so he should haue saide no more in effect but mentall adulterie is mental adulterie But our Sauiour Christ referring that sinne to the commaundement against adulterie sheweth that concupiscence without consent is an other sinne and not onelie in an other degree of the same kinde as mentall and actuall adulterie are and as anger racha thou foole are against the sixt commaundement The last reason of the censure to prooue that the first motions to lust are not forbidden is because they are not in our power where the scripture saith This comaundement which I giue the this daie is not aboue thee Master Chark replieth that the assumption of this argument which is to resist the first motions is not in our power is false You rehearse his wordes thus Our first motions are not altogether out of our power for that the gift of continencie doth more and more subdue them Here you cauill that albeit good men do cut of infinite occasions and causes of motions and temptations yet can they neuer subdue all motions But Master Charke said It is neither true that all these first motions are altogether out of our power c. neither doth it follow that we are not subiect to the lawe for such offences as we can not resist the fault being ours through corruption whie we can not resist them So that in the first part of this saying he confesseth some motions to be out of our power to resist some not out of our power which you also acknowledge and therefore your assumption if it be general is false if it be particuler the conclusion cannot be generall that to resist all the first motions of lustes is not commaunded orthus the law forbiddeth no first motions To the second parte of Master Charkes saying you answer nothing that is of the consequence of your assumption namelie that the fault being ours through corruption and such as our first father did willinglie bring vpon him and vs all our wante of power to resist offences can not exempt vs from the iustice of God This was so strong that you had not so much as a cauil against it But as though you saw it not you runne by into your vsuall path of girding our Ministers who you saie talke of continencie and mortification ech one hauing his yoke mate readie for his turne as good fellows do of fasting that sit at a full table And yet I think it is more praise to keepe temperance at a full table then to abstaine where there is hunger and nothing to eate But I pray you sir doth continencie and mortification belong onelie to vnmarried men You are as good to saie that no maried man can be a true christian seing mortification is necessarie for all Christians and continencie also not from the vndefiled bedde but chastitie from all vncleannes is commaunded generallie to all true members of Christ How the wiueles votaries in poperie performe continencie and mortification but euen of that one earthly member of vncleanes the world is to full of examples and the iustice of god will one daie make manifest To the place of Moses Master Chark saith the translation is false and corrupt which saith the commaundement is not aboue thee where Moses saith it is not hidden from thee And that the place is so to be translated and to be applied to the reuelation of the Gospel it is euidentlie declared by the plaine text and by the application thereofin the epistle to the Romanes cap. 10. 6. To this you answer that he prooueth it neitherby the words of text nor by Saint Pauls application O wretched shift when he quoteth the Chapter and verse where the

third question you haue what difference is betweene these speaches namelie of proceeding and begotten which question you saie with the rest though Master Charke seeme ignorant in them all and not to vnderstand so much as the verie 〈◊〉 themselues yet Catholike diuines know what the Church hath determined herein But concerning this question Saint Augustine shall answere for our ignorance Cont. Maximin lib. 3. cap. 14. Quid autem inter nasci procedere incersit de illa excellentissima natura loquens explicare quis potest Non omne quod procedit nascitur quamuis omne procedar quod nascitur 〈◊〉 omne quod bipes est homo est quam nis bipes sit omnis qui homo est haec scio Distinguere autem inter illam generationem hanc processionem nescio non valeo non sufficio Ac per hoc quia illa ista est ineffabilis stcut Propheta de filio loquens alt Generationem eius quis enarrabit ita de spiritu sancto verissimè dicitur processionem eius quis enarrabit c. What difference is betweene begotten proceeding speaking of that moste excellent nature whoe is able to expresse Not all that proceedeth is begotten although al proceedeth that is begotten As not euerie two legged thing is a man although euerie one is two legged that is a man Those thinges I know But to distinguish betweene that generation and this procession I know not I am not able I am not sufficient And for this reason because both that and this is vnspeakeable as the Prophet speaking of the sonne saith whoe shall declare his generation so of the holie ghost it is saide moste trulie whoe shall declare his procession This is Saint Augustines iudgement of this question Yea this is the Master of the sentences iudgement also as well of this question as of the proceeding of the sonne from the father against you Yet you saie of these as wel of as the other they are no lesse to be beleeued then other mysteries of the trinitie wherewith your conclusion is that you would not haue troubled Master Charke if you had supposed him so grosse therein as by examination you finde him Alacke poore Sir William A lacke for pitie what high points of learning you haue shewed which in the Master of the sentences whome soeuer he wil of an hundred schoolemen that wrote vpon him euerie sophister may finde mooued debated and defined in lesse then one daies studie no meruaill then if Master Charke be so grosse in them as you by examination finde him But while you in your owne imagination are so subtile in them that you thinke your crest perceth the clowdes you haue bewraied more shamefull proude ignorance then any of vs would haue suspected that it might be found in such a great Champion of the Papistes such a Lorde he censuter such a doughtie defender When in some of the questions propounded by your selfe you neither know the doctrine of the scripture the iudgement of the auncient fathers the determination of your Church nor the conclusion of your owne schoole doctors in whole mysteries neuertheles you would seeme to be an other Mercurie For the rest of the handes that you draw against Doctor Fulke you are answered in this consutation of popish quarrelles from pag. 48. vntill pag. 55. And where you saie that euerie litle gesse at our pleasure is sufficient to prooue what we will whereas no testimonies of your part will serue except they be so plaine and euident as by no waits they maie be auoyded and thereupon charge vs to be Lordes of the scriptures it is as manie other of yours a detestable slaunder For as I haue shewed before in matters necessarie to saluation we admit no gesses but either manifest wordes of scripture or els that which is necessarilie concluded out of manifest wordes and principles confessed and such if you haue anie bring them forth and we will hearken vnto them Ouer against the article of punishing heretiks by death which you saie was a long time denied by our selues to be allowable by scripture you note in the margent Luther against Latomus de incendiariis of burners For what purpose I maruell seeing in that booke he complaineth of the Louanistes not for burning heretikes but for burning of his bookes For the mention which Saint Paull is thought of some to make of an Epistle written to the Laodicenses you are not a litle netled that Master Chark condemneth both you and Saint Ieromes translation of ignorance You saie he should not obiect ignorance so peremptorilie to you you ought not so rigorously to haue beene reprehended and you name a great manie auncient writers which may be sufficient to wipe awaie Master Charkes bitter reproch against you But let vs see howrigorously and bitterly he hath delt with you yea how peremtorilie he obiecteth ignorance to you by his own wordes The Episile to the Laodiceans although manie make mention of it Paull maketh none so that either you ignorantlie passed ouer the greeke or willfullie addicted your selfe to the olde translation being in this place plainlie corrupted For by the originall Paull speaketh of an Epistle from Laodicea and not writen to the Laodicenses as you vntrulie assirme Here is all that he saieth you are a daintie Parnell that count your selfe so rigorouflie reprehended and so bitterlie reproched in those wordes where ignorance is not peremptorilie obiected as you saie but either that or willful addiction to the olde translation which I know not vpon what ground you doe so peremtorilie call S. Ieromes translation Master Charke hath more cause to complaine of you for that you affirme that he saith the greeke text hath of an Epistle written by S. Paull from Laodicea For he saith not an Epistle written by Saint Paull but from Laodicea by whome soeuer it was written Where you cite manie that thought mention to be made of one written by Saint Paull to the Laodiceans he confesseth as much But it is more against Master Charke that you haue two Greeke editions the one of Pagnine the other of Plantine which make for you as you affirme But what if you be deceiued in them as great a clarke as you would seeme to be that maie not be touched with the least suspicion of ignorance The most of the copies both printed and written haue 〈◊〉 the Epistle from Laodicea Your two editions leaue out the preposition and then it must be translated that Epistle of Laodicea which it seemeth your vulgar interpreter followed in sense though not in wordes which saith eam quae Laodicensiumest that which is of the Laodiceans Where is there now in anie of these that which maketh for you that Saint Paull speaketh of an Epstle written by him to the Laodicenses For the Epistle of Laodicea which your two greeke editions haue and the Epistle of the Laodicenses which your vulgar translation hath cannot signifie an Epistle written to the Laodicenses but from

〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are able to make thee wise you harpe onelie vpon the word of instructing which the vulgar interpreter vseth not sufficient to answere the greeke verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and yet if it be rightlie vnderstood as perhappes he meant it signifieth to furnish and not to teach properlie so the sense might be that the scripture is able to furnish thee with knowledge to saluation and that 〈◊〉 a sufficiencie Now to your pelting cauilles You aske if the Scriptures which can shew Timothie the waie to saluation and bring him also to it if he will follow them be sufficient for the wholl Church so that all Doctrine by tradition is superfluous I answere yea For there is but one waie to saluation for all the Church But you obiect that euerie Epistle of Saint Paull enstructeth a man to saluation yet it not sufficient for the wholl Church I answere that euerie Epistle of Saint Paull is not sufficient to instruct a man to saluation or to make him wise vnto saluation But that which Saint Paull spaketh is of the wholl scripture not of euery epistle For you might as well obiect that euery chapter and verse instructeth a man toward saluation rather then to saluation but not sufficientlie yet the wholl is able to make a man wise vnto saluation Your second obiection is that the Apostle speaketh principallie of the olde Testament and will Master Charke saie that the olde Testament is sufficient to Christian men for their saluation without anie other writt Yea I warrant you for there is no Doctrine in the new but it was taught in the olde Saint Paull affirmeth that he said nothing but that which the Prophetes and Moses had spoken of thinges to be performed The new Testament hath no other Doctrine then the olde onelie it testifieth the performance of those thinges in Christ which the olde Testament foreshewed to be performed Againe because you grate so much vpon the exclusion of other writt Saint Paull addeth by faith in Iesus Christ which containeth all that is written in the new Testament concerning the storie of performancet and seales of this faith And if the olde were sufficient how much more is the olde the new together a rich aboundant Doctrine The 〈◊〉 that you make against his translation of the wholl Scripture which you would referre to euerie Scripture is answered before the translation must be according to the circumstance of the place Euerie Scripture which is euerie seuerall booke or euerie seuerall Chapter or euerie seuerall verse is not able to make the man of God perfect and perfectlie prepared to euerie good worke but the wholl is therefore the translation must be the whole scriptures and not euerie scripture But now to your tow reasons In the first you saie that Saint Paull could not meane to Timothie of all the scriptures together which we now vse for that all was not then written To this you confesse that he answereth there was inough written then for the susficient saluation of men of that time and therest is not superfluous But this you saie is from the purpose Yea is how so I praie you you answere it was sufficient with the supplie by worde of 〈◊〉 vnwritten but that is contrarie to the purpose for Master Charke telleth you that from the time that any 〈◊〉 was written that scripture contanied sufficient 〈◊〉 to saluation without anie supply of anie other Doctrine that was not in that Scripture comprehended although preaching and other meanes were necessarie to reach men which is beside the purpose Before the scripture was written the same doctrine in substance was deliuered by reuelation that afterwarde was written The continuance thereof was not onelie by bare tradition but also in euerie age renewed by reuelation Againe the age of men was lo long that there remained alwaies faithfull and ceratine witnesses of the doctrine aliue so that it could not be corrúpted but it was easie by those witnesses to be refuted But when the age of man was drawne into the streights of 70. yeares or litle more as Moses sheweth the Doctrine of the Church was committed to writing euen as much at the first as was sufficient for the instruction of the people vnto saluation without anie supplie of traditions The 〈◊〉 of the Prophetes and Apostles writinges is a more full and plentifull declaration of thesame Doctrine of saluation not anie addition of anie new Doctrine or waie to saluation Your second reason is that 〈◊〉 partes of scripture be wanting now which were in Saint Pauls time But that you are not able to prooue For although there is mention in the olde testament of diuerse bookes written by Prophets which are not now extant yet it followeth not that those were extant in Saint Pauls time And if any were yet were they but explications and interpretations of the bookes of Moses which are extant euerie syllable and pricke and shall be to the ende of the world But Epiphanius affirmeth that all thinges cannot be taken from the scripture wherefore the Aposties 〈◊〉 somethings in writing and somethings in tradition To this I answere first that Saint Paul is greater then Epiphanius Secondlie that Epiphanius saith not that anie thing necessarie to saluation cannot be taken out of the scripture For he speaketh onelie of this opinion that it is sinne to marrie after virginitie decreed which neuertheles maie be taken out of the scripture if the vow were aduisedlie taken and no necessitie of incontinencie requiring mariage But of tradition we shall haue further to consider in the next section The thirteenth section intituled Of teaching traditions besides the scripture Art 5. GOtuisus reporteth the Iesuits to saic that the want of holie scriptures muste be supplied by peecing it out by traditions Cens. f. 220. Here you repeat your olde friuolous quarrel that the Iesuites haue no such vnreuerent words Master Chark chargeth you out of Hosius with a farre worseisaying that if traditions be reiected the verie Gospell it selfe seemeth to be reiected For what els are traditions then a certaine liuing Gospell But thereto you answere not one worde and the meaning of those words reported by Gotuisus you mainteine egerlie thorouhout this section as you did in parte in the 12. section that the scriptures are not sufficient and that there must be traditions receiued beside the scripture To what ende but to supplie the want and insufficiencie of the holie scriptures Nay saie you Though both parts of Gods worde that is both written and vnwritten be necessarie vnto Gods Church yet both of them do stand in their full perfection assigned them by God neither is the one a maime or impeachment to the other You meane they are as perfect as God made them not that the written word is sufficient to teach all trueth vnto the perfection of the man of God And so for all your vaine compasse of wordes the sense is all one The scripture is but a part or a

the sense and true meaning of thinges them-selues And this is Chrisostomes meaning not of traditions altogether without the compasse of the scriptures and yet held necessarie to saluation For of the sufficiencie of the scri ptures he speaketh in diuers places and namelie vppon that cleere text 2. Tim. 3. Hom 9. of the scripiure he saith Siquid vel diseere velignorare opus sit illic addiscemus If anie thing be needefisli to know or not to know in the scriptures we shall learne But because you saie those wordes of Saint Paulare cleere 2. Thess. 2. for vnwritten tradititions I praie you what argument can you conclude out of them Saint Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians something by preaching and something by writing ergo he deliuered something that is not contained in the holie scriptures written either by himselfe or anie other of the holie men of God appointed for that purpose Who is so childish thinke you to graunt you this consequence therefore for anie thing you haue brought or can bring or anie thing that the fathers haue said or can saie the word of God writ ten is perfect and hable to make a man wise to saluation by faith in Iesus Christ which is to be had sufficientlie in the holie scriptures as Christ him-selfe doth witnes Iohn 5. 39. And so the former conclusion doth still stand It is great iniquitie to receiue traditions altogether beside the holie scripture as necessarie to saluation which must needes argue the holie scriptures of imperfection and vnsufficiencie Neither doth the consent of Antiquitie refute this assertion of Master Charke seeing the auncients as it is said spake either of doctrine not expressed in word but contained in deede in the scriptures or els of rites and ceremonies the perpetuall obseruation where of is not necessatie to eternall life as is prooued by the discussing of manie of them which the elder fathers do father vpon the tradition of the Apostles as much as anie other that they name And if you saie they were deceiued in such as are abolished how shall we know that 〈◊〉 not in such as are retained For in their 〈◊〉 they were all generallie receiued as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well such as are discontinued as those 〈◊〉 remaine 〈◊〉 if any man will aske you what be these Apostolicall 〈◊〉 in particuler you could alleadge him testimonies 〈◊〉 auncient fathers for a great number But you referr 〈◊〉 Saint Cyprian Serm. de ablut pedum Tertullian 〈◊〉 milit and Saint Hieron dialog contra Luciferianos 〈◊〉 say he shall finde store Belike your note booke 〈◊〉 you thither although you listed not to take so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe but turne it ouer to your 〈◊〉 Howbert he that is disposed to read the sermon 〈◊〉 Cyprian shall finde no store at all but of the necessitie of washing offcete which ceremonie was taken by the example of Christ yet is not thought necessarie in the Popish Church at this daie Tertullian in deede hath some prety store yet not to mantaine popish traditions so much as to ouerthrow them For he 〈◊〉 some things that are taken out of the scripture as to renounce the deuill in Baptisme c. some that are growne out of vse manie hundred yeares agoe as that the baptized should taste of milke and honie that they should abstaine from washing seauen daies after That men should signe their forheade at euerie steppe and proceeding going forth and comming home at putting on of apparell and at pulling on of shooes at washings at table at lighting of candells at beddes at stooles at all times and places Saint Hierome also in the person of the heretike rehearseth traditiones and among them such as Papistes do not obserue namelie the mixture of milke and honie geuen to them that are newlie baptized On the Lords daie and during the wholl time of Pentecoste neither to kneele in praiers nor to fast These are parte of those Apostolical traditions in particular which if they had beene necessary to saluation must haue beene perpetuallie continued If they were vntruelie ascribed to the Apostles what wartant can we haue of any other seeing the most auncient writers commend these as much as anie other for Apostolicall traditions Yet a few other examples you wil adde out of Saint Augustine whoe prooueth baptisme you sare by tradition of the Church lib. 10. de gen ad lit cap. 23. to this answere hath beene made sufficientlie in the 11. section that Saint Augustine doth not defend baptisme of infants onelie by the custome of the Church but also by the scriptures Likewise you saie he prooueth by the same tradions that we must not rebaptize those which are baptized of heretikes lib. 2. de bapt capt 7. lib. 1. cap. 23. lib. 4. cap. 6 It is true that he perwsadeth him selfe that this custome of not rebaptizing came from the Apostles tradition yet doth he by many arguments out of scripture prooue that such are not to be baptized againe which haue beene once baptized although by heretikes and therefore he saith of the same matter Hoc planè verum est quia ratio veritas consuetudini praeponenda est Sed cùm consuetudini veritas suffragatur nihil oportet firmius retineri This is plainlie true that reason and truth is to be preferred before custome but when truth consenteth with custome nothing ought more steadefastlie to be 〈◊〉 You see therefore that he buildeth not onelie vppon custome or tradition which is the matter in question but vppon trueth and reason which is founded by the holie scriptuers Your middle quotation de bap lib. 1. cap. 23. you may correct against your nextreplie for there are but 19. Chapters in that booke Againe you saie He prooueth by tradition the celebration of the Pentecost commonlie called Whitsontide ep 11 c. 1. If it were as you saie it is but a matter of ceremony not necessarie to saluation but in the power of the Church to alter as many like which are abrogated But in trueth he prooueth it not as you say by tradition For these are his wordes Illa autem quae non scripta c. But those thinges which are kept beeing not written but deliuered which are obserued thoroughout all the worlde it is giuen to be vnderstoode that they are retained as commended and decreed either by the Apostles them-selues or by generall Councells the authoritie of which is moste whollesome in the Church as that the passion of our Lord and his resurrection ascension into heauen and the comming of the holie ghoste from heauen are celebrated with yearelie solemnitie You see by his owne wordes that he is not certaine whether he should laie this ceremoniall celebration vpon deliuery of the Apostles or vpon decrees of general coun cells And whencesoeuer they came the matter is not great in such thinges as of their owne nature are indifferent and therefore alterable by discretion of the Church in all times Whether the Apostles were baptized which is

a nose of wax is easie to be turned and shaped on euerie side or sort which if it were so must needes be a great fault in the scripture it selfe A hundred positiue lawes and statutes in England are so well penned as all the sophistical heads in christendome cannot finde a starting hole in them by anie peruerse interpretations but thatall they which haue but a meane skill in the lawes will laugh them to scorne And tha I we think so vnreuerently of the holy scriptures giuen by inspiration of god that euerie foolish heretike maie turne them about like a nose of wax but rather that in his said attempt of turning his folly shal be made manifest to al men Pighius saith expressely the scriptures are dumbe iudges as though Godspake not in them and by them vnto vs whose prophane comparison of the holie scriptures with prophane lawes which require Magistrates and iudges to punish the offenders of them euerie Christian man may perceiue to tende to the derogation of the maiesty of them As also euerie childe that hath studied logike but halfe a yeare maie vnderstand his beggerlie petition of the principle when appealing from the iudgement of the scriptures he will be iudged by none but by papists in controuersies and questions that we haue against the papists As for the blacke Gospell and Inkie diuinitie babled by Eccius against the written Gospell If Iesuits can maintaine as Catholike surelie Christians can not heare it without horror of blasphemie If there be no fault or imperfection in the scriptures how saith Pighius that euery man may euidently know without the scriptures in what order the Church is appointed by her author Againe of what moment is the holy scripture if it be not necessarie to decide all doubtes and controuersies in the Church for thus saith Pighius If we receaue the authoritie of the Churches tradition quam si recipimus omnis facilè etiam sine scriptur is inter nos componetur concertatio controuersia cùm de singulis nonfuerit admodum operosum inuenire quid Catholica ab initio Ecclesia senserit Which if we receiue all strife and controuersie betweene vs may easilie be compounded euen without the scriptures Seeing it is no very hard worke to finde out what the Ca tholike Church from the beginning hath thought of euerie question Thus the Ecclesiasticall tradition is set a loft and the holie scriptures excluded as superfluous and vnnecessarie seeing all questions may easilie be decided without them But to giue a better colour to your nose of waxe you saie Saint Ierome doth call the scriptures alledged corruptlie by Marcion and Basilides the diuells Gospell because the Gospell consisteth not in the words of scripture but in the sense But so doth not Christ call the scripture when it was alledged by the deuill neither doth Saint Ierome so call the scripture but the false sense feined by heretikes His wordes are these Grande periculum est in Ecclesia loqui ne fortè interpretatione peruersa de Euangelio Christi hominis fiat Euangelium aut quod peius est Diaboli It is great perill to speake in the Church least perhappes by peruerse interpretation of the Gospell of Christ be made the Gospell of man or that which is worse of the deuill And it is true which he saith The Gospell is not in the wordes but in the sense of the scriptures Yet it is also true that the sense of the scriptures is expressed in those wordes of the scriptures and not included in the Popes breast as the Papists would haue vs thinke that al labour bestowed in seeking the sense of the scriptures is in vaine except we take the interpretation of the Popish Church which sthe iudgement of the Pope as the sure rule to guide vs by But Saint Augustine you saie calleth the scripture the bowe of heretikes Which is not so for he compareth their wresting of the scriptures to the bending of a bowe Ecce inquiunt peccatores tetenderunt arcum credo scriptur as quas illi carnaliter interpretando venenatas inde sententias emittunt Beholde say they the sinners haue bent the bowe the scriptures I beleeue which while they interpret carnallie they send forth poysoned meaninges from them Further you saie Irenaeus compareth it abused by heretikes to a Iewel stamped with the forme of a Dogge or Fox Irenaeus speaketh not of the bodie of the scriptures but of wordes sentences and parables of scripture rent not onelie from their sense but also from their place and patched together with olde wiues fables to make a shew for heresie which is all one as he saith as if a man should breake an excellent Image of a king and when he hath fashioned the peeces beeing pearles or precious stones into the shape of a Fox or Dogge he would yet be so impudent to saie this is that excellent Image of the king which was made by a not able workman This soundeth nothing like the nose of waxe Likewise you saie Gregorie Nazianzen compareth the scripture to a siluer scabberd with a leaden sworde in it The comparison you speake of is in his poemes which I verelie am perswaded that you neuer read but were mocked by your notebooke as many times before For Gregorie compareth not the scriptures as you slaunder him but an hipocrite a man that hath nothing but an externall shew of religion to a leaden sworde in a siluer scabberde his verses are these if you could haue construed them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To these that you might seeme bountifull though you be a verie begger of your owne reading you adde Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis of which the former you saie compareth the scripture to the deceitfull ornaments of harlottes the other to poysoned hearbs couered in the Apothecaries shops with faire titles Wherein you slaun der them both for they compare not the wholl scripture as you doe in your nose of waxe but the hereticall bragges of scripture which as they may abuse a peece for a shew so are they confounded by the wholl when the same is rightlie weighed Therefore the comparisons of these auncient Doctors are no more like to your nose of waxe then your nose of waxe is like to the holie scriptures Neither doth the example of Luther calling the scriptures the booke of heretikes expounding him selfe why he so calleth it namely because it is depraued by heretikes defend the Iesuites which to the deprauation of the scriptures vse that similitude as Luther did not in his albeit he might as well haue forborne that title as his rash iudgement against those whome you call sacramentaries for as the one was vnprofitable so the other was vniust But if the Iesuites saie you had reiected any one booke of the scripture as the Protestantes doe many we might iustlie accuse them It is as great a fault to adde to the worde of God as to take from it The Protestantes reiect no booke

of the canonicall scripture which was receiued by Christ and his Apostles and the primitiue Church long after them But the Papists adde of their owne authoritie to the holie canon and therefore as much are they subiect to gods curse as if they did take away Neither doth Luther discredit or deface the whol epistle of Saint Iames as you saie although in comparison of some other bookes of scripture by a similitude he maketh it farre inferior to them What Doctor Fulke and Master Whitaker haue written the one of the booke of Maccaebees the other of Tobie they haue sufficientlie maintained in their replies whereunto I remit the reader and for Master Charkes reuiling of Iudith to the reporte of the disputation in which your impudent slaunder is confuted Where you conclude that no man in the world euer spake more reuerentlie of holie scripture then Iesuites do you ouer reach very much as you do very often They which teach that the holyscripture is sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation speake more reuerently then the Iesuits whichdeny the sufficiency of the scripture for the instru ction of the Church Last of al the Censure ridiculously charged M. Charke with fraudulent translation of this worde Immaculata when he alledgeth this text psal 19. as oppo sit to your nose of waxe The law of the Lord is perfect out of the original tongue the best translations from which the greek in sense dessenteth not not out of the olde latine translation Now you trifle to no purpose about the Hebrew Greeke Latine termes which to those that are but me anelie learned are well enough knowne what they signifie And first if you should graunt al that M. Chark said you thinke he had gained nothing For you also confes that the law of the Lord is perfect but not in that sense wherein M. Chark vsech it to wit that because the law of the Lord is perfect therefore the scripture cannot be wrested And afterward when you haue tolde vs that these wordes vnde filed irreprehensible and perfect which answer the latine greeke and Hebrue wordes 〈◊〉 not much in sense for whatsoeuer is irreprehensible and vnspotted may also be called perfect you conclude that this doth not prooue the scriptures to be perfect in sense in such sort as it maie not be wrested or peruerted You say true but it is false that Master Chark maketh anie such illation as you charge him For thus he inferreth the lawe of God is perfect ergo it cannot be wrested as a nose of wax or as his owne wordes are the scripture is perfect and manteineth her perfection against all corruptions as a right line sheweth it selfe bewraieth that which is crooked The lawe of a wise man as hath beene said before may be so perfect as it cannot be wrested like a nose of waxe into anie sense that the wrester wil imagine but that his vaine cauillation shall be odious and ridiculous to al men Much rather is the lawe of God so perfect as though all the deuilles in hell should breake their braines to wrest and peruertit yet can they neuer wrest it like a nose of wax to euerie side or shape but that the perfect sense of the scripture remaineth ful constant and manifest to them that haue the spirit of God yea euen to them that will iudge but indifferentlie according to right reason By the waie you charge Master Charke with railing and inueighing against your olde translation and with running he careth not whether forging he careth not what and reprehending he careth not whome yet in all that discourse he hath no more wordes of it but these your olde translation doth goe alone In which wordes what rayling running forging reprehending inueihing may be conteined let ihe wiser sort iudge and fooles learne to be wiser But where he saith that the best translations differ from the olde translation you aske what best or better or other good latine translation hath he then the olde As though none might be good but your olde translation I perceaue you would not acknowledge any good of them that were set forth by Munster Leo Iude or anie other professed protestant yet what saie you to the translation of Vatablus a famous and learned reader of Paris How dare you condemne the translation of Pagnine of the olde testament and Erasmus of the new testament as naught which the Pope allowed as good Finallie what exceptions can you take to the translation of Isidorus Clarius censured and approoued by the deputies of the Councell of Trent maie none of these be good better or best but that your olde translation hath the prerogatiue in goodnes in all degrees that it leaueth all other behinde it as nought O waightie censure of a wise Papist But let vs see wherein the excellencie of the olde translation doth consist as you suppose First you saie it was in vse in Gods Church aboue 13. hundred yeares past as maie be seene by the citations of the fathers which liued then But euen those verie citations doe prooue the contrarie at the least that it was not in generall vse in the latine Church Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted for the bowe of heretikes where your translation hath in obscuro did reade in obscura luna and standeth much vpon exposition of the darke moone Yea throughout the wholl Psalter whosoeuer wil compare the text which Saint Augustine vsed with your olde translation shall finde great difference betweene them But this your olde translation you tell vs was afterward oueruewed and corrected by Saint Ierome we know verie well that Saint Ierome did oueruew and correct a certaine auncient translation of the septuaginta that was vfed in his time But how are you hable to prooue that this your vulgar translation is the same either corrected or vncorrected For it appeareth by the citations of diuerse of the latine Church which liued after Saint Ierome that they vsed an other text then this translation euen vntill the daies of Bernard When you saie that this your olde translati on was highlie commended by Saint Augustine you make such a shameles 〈◊〉 as you obiect without shame to M. Charke when he saith that the Septuaginta agree with the hebrue in signification of the word perfecte for they saie irreprehensible which must needes be perfect but so is not your latine 〈◊〉 vnspotted or vndefiled which you your selfe in your censure do egerlie contend to be differing from perfection You name the translation of Erasmus and Luther of which the one translated onelie the new testament which Leo. 10. and Clemens 7. did both allow the other translated not the Bible at all in latine except perhappes some partes vpon which he wrote commentaries Here your Printer will make vs beleeue that you were remooued with a writ de remouendo so as you could proceede no further but now there is a writ de renouando sued against you if you

that they were sent with as large commission in euery respect as Christ was sent to be our mediator and redeemer The wordes of Cyrill which you haue mangled and chopped at your pleasure I will recite wholl together that the reader may see how iniutiouslie you would draw to farre other meaning then his saying wil yeald In Ioh. lib. 12. C. 55. vpon these words Dicit ergo eis iterum pax vobis sicut misit me pater ego mitto vos He writeth thus Ordinauit his verbis orbis doctores c. He ordeined thē by these words teachers of the world ministers of the diuine mysteries whome he sent as lightes to the lightening not of the region of the Iewes onelie which according to the measure of the legall commaundement extended from Dan to Bersebe as it is written but he commaunded them to lighten the wholl worlde Therefore Paul saith truelie that no man taketh honour vpon him except he be called of God For our Lord Iesus Christ called his disciples vnto the glorious Apostleship which staied the world that was moued beeing made the pillers thereof Whereof by the Psalmist he saith of the earth and the Apostles I haue strengthned the pillers thereof For his disciples are the pillers and strength of truth Whome he saith that he doth so send as he him-selfe is sent of his father that also he might shew the dignitie of their Apostleship and open to all men the greatnes of their power and with all might shew what way they ought to follow in their studies and in their life For if they be so sent as Christ is sent of his father how is it not necessarie to consider vnto what the father sent his sonne for so not otherwise they may be able to follow him But if expounding to vs the cause of his sending many waies one while he saide I came not to call the iust but sinners to repentance an other while The holl haue no neede of the Phisitian but such as be diseased And moreouer I came downe from heauen saith he not that I might doe mine owne will but the will of him that sent me And againe God sent not his sonne into the worlde that he should iudge or condemne the world but that the world might be saued by him All which thinges he signified in most few wordes saying that he doth so send them as he was sent by his father that hereof they might vnderstand that sinners are to be called to repentance that they which ar diseased might be healed both in bodie and in minde And in the dispensation of thinges they must not doe their owne will but the will of him that sent them and that the world by preaching and the doctrine of faith must be saued All which things with what great diligence they performed you may learne with small labour in the booke of the Acts of the Apostles in the Epistles of Paul Thus farre Cyrillus whose saying if you had not clipped and gelded for your aduantage would haue made no colour for your purpose but against it ALLEN And truelie it was the singular prouidence of God that beforē the graunt of the gouernment of mens soules to his Disciples beeing but mortal men mention should be made of his owne right therein that the wicked should neuer haue face to disgrace the authoritie of them that dependeth so fullie of the soueraigne calling and commission of Gods owne sonne This high wisedome was practized also to the vtter confusion of the wicked and wilfull persons at their calling to the office of preaching and baptizing The which function lest any contemptuous person should in such base men disdaine Christ alledgeth his owne power and preheminence to which the dignitie of priesthoode is so neere and so euerlastinglie ioyned that euerie dishonour and neglecting of the one is great derogation to the other And therefore he saith Omnis potest as data est mihi in coelo in terra All power in heauen and in earth is giuen to my handes Therefore goe you forward and teach all natious babtizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holie Ghost Thus before the institution of sacraments whereof God him selfe must onelie be the author as saith Saint Cyprian Christ voutchsafed for the quiet instruction of the world to declare his authoritie and prerogatiue that all men might farther vnderstand thereby that the ministerie and excllent founction in the vse of the same did orderlie proceed of that authoritie and supreame power that Christ hath receiued ouer all mankind FVLKE Cyrillus telleth you there is none other graunt of the gouernment of mens soules contained in these wordes but to be teachers of the Gospell and to be ministers of the diuine mysteries to preach remission of sinnes to the penitent and to seale it vp with the sacraments to denounce vengeance to the impenitent vnbeleeuers in all things to attend that they do not their owne wil but the wil of him that sent them And in so doing their authoritie is exceeding great deriued from God him selfe the onelie author of their Doctrine and of the sacraments they doe minister Wherein you seeme somewhat to forget your selfe which hitherto haue mainteined and still affirme that Christ did remit sinnes and gaue his Apostles authoritie to doe the same by power receiued from God in his manhoode and that the holie Trinitie would not remit our sinnes otherwise then by the seruise of the sonne of man But now you confesse with S. Cyprian that God himselfe must be the onelie author of Sacraments Wherefore if this power of remitting sins be a Sacrament as you holde Christ must be the onelie author of it as God himselfe not as man by power receiued from God by the holie Ghost ALLEN And this sequel of Christes reason hath maruelous efficacie and force if we will consider thereof All power is giuen to me both in heauen and earth therefore goe you and preach and baptize and remit sinnes If a man would aske the Priest or Apostle how he dare be so bold to exercise any of these functions he might vpon Christes word be so bolde to make him this answere marie sir I baptize because all power is giuen to Christ I preach because all power is giuen to Christe I remit sins because all power was giuen to Christ. For in my ministerie he practiseth daielie all these functions in his power I am become the lawfull worker of all actions that are so proper to Christ him selfe Therefore it was Christ saith Saint Augustine that baptized and had moe Disciples then Iohn and yet Christ baptized not but his Disciples onelie So saie you to all contemners of Gods ordinance it is Christ that pardoneth and enioyneth penance for mans sinnes and yet he doth it not him-selfe as in his owne person but Christ doth it daily by the power which he established after his resurrection and which

the least they disdaine to submit themselues to the Priests whom God hath giuen power vnto to discearne the cleane from the vncleane But I would thou shouldest not beguile thy selfe by false perswasion or some respect of shame that thou hast to confesse vnto the priest who is Gods Vicare For I tell thee thou must vnder his iudgement whome God doth not disdaine to constitute his Vicegerent But this Doctour made a wholl worke of penance and the waies of recouerie of Christian mans fall after Baptisme by the Priests iudgement and sacrament of Confession Of the which bookes if any man list doubt yet let him be assured that they be both auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies whosoeuer made them And our cause is so much more holpen because not onelie Saint Austine who is plaine in these matters vpon Saint Matthwes Gospel and els where as it is declared alreadie but also other of great antiquitie confirme the same and plainly confound the pride of our daies in which men are not somuch ashamed of their sinnes as they be disdainefull to confesse their sinnes vnto a poore priest though he iustlie accupie the verie iudgement seat of God FVLKE You doe wiselie to deuorce vpon his meaning when you haue not his wordes to warrant you For so you maie blinde the eyes of the ignorant to beleeue that you haue som farther intelligence of meaning then can appeare euen by the words that you haue cited out of him For the 〈◊〉 of condemnation is not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against them which are ashamed to confes their faults to men if they amend them before god but against them that flie the knowledge and iudgement of men and yet doe not repent before God And therefore he saith si ea confiteri aut emendare noluerirt if they will not confesse them or amende them and againe si in maio suo permanserint if they shall continue in their euill But if they will amend their faultes and not continue in sinne he dare promise them forgiuenes and life euerlasting as is declared in the last section But now you charge vs with Saint Agustines authoritie and yet you will not abide by it that it is Saint Augastines authoritie wherein you deale more sincerely then Papists are commonlie wont to doe to acknowledge that these bookes you vouch are not admitted for Saint Augustines authoritie Among so many great and large volumes as are certeinlie knowne and generally receiued to be of Saint Augustines writing where you can finde nothing but these bookes of vncerteine credit to mainteine the necessitie of auricular confession the indifferent reader may well gather how litle ground your purpose cā finde in that age of S. Austins For that you haue declared alreadie out of S. Austine vpon S. Matthewes Gospel ells where how plaine it is for these matters let the reader iudge by that I haue answered in those seuerall places But as touching the bookes de visitatione 〈◊〉 being one of the two treatises that you cite as it is certaine that it was not of S. Austines writing so hath it no similitude with the doctrine of his time or with the stile of anie learned or auncient father The Censure of Erasmus vpon these bookes is this Sermo locutulei nec docti nec diserti Quid habuerunt vel frontis vel mentis qui talia scripta nobis obtruserunt nomine Augustini c. These bookes are the speach of a pratler neither learned nor eloquent What shame or wit had they which haue thrust vpon vs such writings vnder the name of S. Augustine Yet you dare assure vs that they be auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies But the reasons of your assurance you spare to shewe giuing vs nothing but your bare word which is sufficient among vnlearned and sottish Papists whose ignorance you knewe would accept whatsoeuer you brought and therefore were carles what all the learned of the contrarie parte might iudge of your impudent and shameles assertions Concerning the other whole worke of penance which you affirme that this doctour made although it were graunted that Saint Augustine was author of that worke of repentance as it shall be easilie graunted that if not Saint Augustine yet some other auncient and learned father was the writer of them neuertheles there is nothing in them by which you are able to prooue the matter in controuersie namelie the necessitie of confession of all mortall sinnes to a Priest And therefore albeit you set a good face vpon the matter you haue neuer a sentence to set downe out of those bookes that is able to giue but onely a glosse or colour to your Popish confession For if you had you woulde not haue beene silent in setting forth the sentence of another beside Saint Augustine as you saie and as I thinke of great antiquitie who against them that be impenitent and neither acknowledge their sinnes vnfainedlie before God nor studie to amend and reforme their wicked life writeth vehementlie shewing three kindes of repentance one before baptisme in them that are of yeares another after baptisme which is dailie sorowing for our infirmities in saying the Lordes prayer the third of heinous and notorious sinnes offensiue to the Church of them that are excommunicated and are not to be receiued without open confession and signes of humilitie But the necessitie of confessing all thinges to a poore priest iustlie occupying the verie iudgement seate of God there is no word in either of those two bookes De medicina poenitentiae de vtilitate poenitentiae ALLEN And Saint Ambrose these mens auncient somewhat did knowe this practise so well and allow it that he did sit in his owne person on confession as Paulinus doth recorde whose behauiour in that diuine office that all Priestes maie perceiue and all the people note I will report Quotie scunque illi aliquis ob percipiendam poenitentiam lapsus suos confessus esset it a flebat vt ilium flere compellerat Causas autem criminum quas illi confitebaniur nulli nisi Domino soli apud quens intercedebat loquebatur bonum relinquens exemplum posteris sacerdotibus vt intercessores apud Deum sin magis quàm accusatores apud homines That is to saie So often as anie man came vnto him to confesse his faultes and receiue penance he so wept that he made the Penitent to weepe also But the faults themselues which they confessed he vttered to no man but to God alone to whome for their sinnes he made sute leauing a blessed example to all Priestes of the posteritie to account themselues rather as intercessours to God for sinnes then accusers of men before the worlde for their sinne This saieth Paulinus of Saint Ambrose whereby at once we see the iudgement of them both for our matter FVLKE The iudgement of Saint Ambrose concerning the necessitie of popish thrift or auricular confession we haue

heard before out of his owne writinges Neither doth Paulinus testifie anie other thing of him nor any other thing then might be said of Luther and Caluin whoe were no friendes of Papisticall confession For if anie man did confesse vnto them his offences that he might shew himselfe truelie penitent and receiue comfort and counsell for his amendment no doubt but those holie men were greatlie grieued at his fall which mooued the offendour to greater sorow for his sinne and yet those faultes as were discouered to them being such as might with duetie to God and the state be concealed they would neuer vtter to aniebodie What would this make to prooue that they saie on confessions like popish Priestes and required all men vnder paine of damnation to confesse vnto them their secret deadlie sinnes as pop sh Priests doe But popish prelates disdaine to doe that which they faine Saint Ambrose to haue done Manie of them being such for their knoweledge as you might rather seeke water out of a pumise stone then the doctrine of comfort out of their mouthes and for their liues and conuersations such as deserue if there were anie hope of amendment in them to stand in the Church among open penitents rather than to sit in the chaires of gouernment and iudgement ouer other men Wherefore by this citation we neither see the iudgement of Paulinus nor of saint Ambrose for your matter of the necessitie of auricular confession For that secret confession maie be made in some case we denie not but that it is necessarie to be made of all deadlie sinnes that man can remember you haue not yet prooued ALLEN But to go forward Saint Cyprians meaning is so plaine for confession of sinnnes that he prescribeth the verie thoughtes of man that be sinnefull and damnable to be vttered vnto the Priestes praising them that vpon onelie intent and purpose of committing idolatrie hoc ipsum apud sacerdotes Dei dolenter simpliciter confitebantur did simplie and sorowfullie make confession thereof to the Priests of God And now that we are for the practise and proofe hereof at S. Cyprian which is high in Gods Church we neede not staie here though we be farre enough paste our aduersaries account in such cases that laie it downe at I ateran Councell a whole thousand yeares shorte of those daies I will not much speak of Tertullian whome Saint Cyprian calleth Master his wholl booke writen of penance doth make altogether for this sacrament and for confession to be made to Gods Priestes which he calleth exomologesin prosternendi atque humiliandi hominis disciplinam and amongst other things pertaining to the act of confession and penance which then was much more publike and seuere then it is now he reckeneth this to be one Presbiteris aduolui to be humblie laid at the Priests fecte where he also resembleth a man that is lothe to confesse his inwarde faultes to him that hauing a filthie botch in the secret partes of his bodie had rather let it 〈◊〉 vp the member then for foolish shamefastnes vtter the griefe to his surgeane FVLKE You slaunder Saint Cyprian greatlie to make him be so plaine of your meaning that he perscribeth the verie thoughts of man that be sinneful and damnable to be vttered vnto the priests although he praise them that vpon onelie intent and purpose of committing Idolattie did sorowfullie and simplie confesse the same before the priests of God His wordes are these Denique quando fide maiore timore meliore sunt qui quamuis nullo sacrificij aut libelli facinore constricti quoniam tamen de hoc vel cogitauerūt hoc ipsum apud sacerdotes dei dolenter simpliciter 〈◊〉 exomologesin conscientiae faciunt animi sui pondus exponunt salutarem medelam paruis licet modicis vulneribus exquirunt scientes scriptum esse Deus non deridetur Finallie seeing they are both of greater faith and better feare which although they be guiltie of no wicked fact of sacrifice or libell yet because they haue so much as thought of such a matter they sorowfullie and simplie confesse the same before the Priests of God they make confession of their conscience they declare the burthen of their minde they seeke for wholsome medicine although for small and litle woundes knowing that it is writen God is not mocked What prescription is in these wordes of anie necessitie of confession of all the sinnefull thoughts of men his meaning is that they shewe them selues more faithfull and to feare God better which voluntarilie when there is no necessitie offer themselues to open repentance For their onelie purpose of sacrificing to the better quieting of their conscience then they which being polluted with libells as they called them by which they professed to paie monie that they might not be compelied to sacrifice to Idolls yet would not acknoweledge that they were in anie faulte which was necessarie for them to doe before they could be admitted into the congregation And therefore you haue neither practize nor proofe of the necessitie of auricular confession in Cyprians time which was 1000. yeares before the Lateran Councell which decreed the necessitie thereof That you will not speake much of Tertullian it is because you haue litle yea nothing at all in him to vpholde your purpose His booke de Poenitentia is well knowen to be written of open penance for such as were to be baptized or els had openlie fallen with offence of the Church but as for your popish sacrament of penance or confession before the priests otherwise then before the whole Church you haue nothing in that booke and therefore among other thinges pertaning to that seuere discipline of publike repentance where he reckeneth Presbyteris aduolui to be one he addeth immediatelie arie dei adgeniculari omnibus fratribus legationes deprecationis sue 〈◊〉 And to kneele before the altars of God to require all the brethren to praie for them And immediately it followeth haec omnia exomologesis vt poenitentiam commender All these things confession requireth to set forth repentance And as touching him that refuseth this discipline for shamefastenes his wordes are these Plerosque tamen hoc opus vt publicationem sui aut suffugere aut de die in diem differre praesumo pudoris magis memores quàm salutis velut illi qui in partibus verecundioribus corporis contracta vexatione conscteniam medentium vitant ita cum rubescentia sua pereunt Yet I suppose that many doe either eschew or defer from day to daie this worke as a defamation of themselues being more mindeful of shamefastnes then of their health as those men which hauing gotten a vexation in the secret partes of their bodie do auoide to haue it knowne to them that should heale it so perish with their shamefastnes This saying doeth not prooue the necessitie of confession of all our sinnes so often as we fall but the necessitie of open

him for neither Saint Paull Saint Cyprian nor the councell of Nice graunted such pardons to such persons and for such causes as he doth therefore he followeth not their example but his owne presumption Yet let vs see how this argument is fortified First the paine prescribed by law he maie release because he is the principall executor of the law But who will allow him anie such principalitie in the Church that is no member of the same Secondlie he maie remit the pennance enioyned by the Priest because he is superiour to all piestes which is nothing but a miserable begging of that which is in controuersie The like is to be said of his changing of penance whereby he challengeth the like authority Although his changing of sharpe pe nance into easie paiment doth bewray what is the end of such permutation money is intended whatsoeuer is pretended Vrbanus the 2. in the councell of Claremounte exhorting men of al nations to the warre of Ierusalem began that release of penance for seruing in that cause which his successours afterward haue vsed as a gaie and gainfull pretense when they were disposed to enrich their coffers and mantaine their priuate quarrels ALLEN The like they do also often to set forward other workes of charitie to the benefit of Gods people as for the relieuing of Hospitals of Churches of high waies and such like Sometimes againe they extende their power which Christ gaue them to edifie his Church and increase religion and deuotion in the people as when thy giue pardon for so manie daies to such as shall receiue the blessed Sacrament faste and praie that heresie maie cease in the Church that the enemies of Christianitie maie not preuaile that infidels Iewes and heretikes maie be conuerted and Schismatikes knit them-selues obedientlie to the fellowship of Chistes folde So doth the Pope for the encrease of zelous deuotion and aduancing Gods honour giue daies of remission or full pardon to such as shall vsuallie haue meditations of Christes passion and death by certaine holie praiers appointed or by visiting places in which there be seene some liuelie sieppes memories and expresse tokens of Christe miraculous workes or his Saintes Thus to helpe vp the dulnesse of praying and seruing God in our daies he geueth grace and pardon to such as shall freauent the Churches at the times of their dedication or on certaine principall Feastes there either to be confessed and receiue the 〈◊〉 sacrament or els to ioyne in praier and deuotion with other the faithful people that thither at those daies haue principall recourse Hereof we haue example not onelie in the storie of the institution of the solemne Feast of Corpus Christi but also in the great generall councell holden at Laterane For this cause also and the like maintenance of holie praier by which the Church of God moste standeth hath he mercifully with singular wisdome giuen a pardon of certaine daies or years to such as should deuoutlie occupie such beades books or praiers in all which things orderlie giuen reuerentlie receiued I see not what can be reprehended of anie but such as are offended with all workes and waies of mercie charitie and deuotion The power and iurisdiction is prooued lawfull the causes why he should exercise his authoritie herein be verie vrgent Gods honour with the peoples commodite exceeding well respected all thinges here do edify and nothing at all destroy all things do stande by good reason nothing can be reprooued either with rea son or good religion FVLKE You tell vs what the Pope doth but neither by what authoritic of the holie scriptures nor by what example of the holie auncient Church He could neuer sit in the Temple of God boasting him-selfe to be God except he had some religious colour to blinde the eies of the world which submitteth vnto his antichiristan power And yet all the world knoweth that monie obtained for hospitalles Churches beades bookes and such baggage all the pardons in a manner that haue beene graunted As for the pretense of setting forward the workes of charitie fasting praing c. is not onelie hypocriticall but also wicked For neither men muste be hired to the workes of charitie and other Christian exercises by pardon of their punishments but exhorted and charged for the loue of God and vpon their duties neither should a sale be made of that which ought to be freelie graunted if the Church had such authoritie For freely saith he you haue receiued therefore freely you ought to giue Therefore though you cannot see in this filthy nundination what is to be reprehended we can see nothing that can be defended where neither the power is proued lawfull nor the causes reasonable nor the end godlie whatsoeuer is pretended nor meanes by the worde of God or example of the Pimitiue Church allowable That not onelie the penance enioyned in the sacrament otherwise by canonicall correction but also such paine as God him selfe prouideth for sinne may be released by the Popes Pardons and that Purgatorie paines may especiallie be preuented by the same remissions THE 7. CHAP. ALLEN BVt now because some may by course of our matter looke that I should declare whether the Popes Pardons may release any whit of that paine which God himselfe putteth the penttent vnto after his sinnes be forgiuen I must somewhat stand hereupon the cause is weightie and much misliked of our aduersaries and some other perchance to that see not so farre into the matter as they should doe before they giue anie iudgement thereof That the gouernours of the Church should remit Canonicall correction and priuse satisfaction with the bonde of penance either enioyned or els which by the lawes spirituall might be enioyned manie will confesse But that their power should reach to the remitting of that paine which Gods hand hath laied vpon the offender of temporall correction that they vnderstand not Truely for this they must be instructed first that the temporall punishment which God taketh on sinners that be penitent though it standeth by the law of nature aud was practized of the laws of nature and was practized of God himselfe before anie mans lawes were made for puuishment of sinnes yet now it riseth prin cipallie vpon lack of punishing of our selues or the accomplishing of such penance as the Church of God prescribeth For if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisficeth Gods righteousnesse and he will not punish bis in id ipsum twise for one fault or if man earnestlie and sufficientlie iudge him-selfe God hath promised by S. Paul that he will not iudge him also that is to saie that he will not correct him with more heauie discipline of this life or the life to come for that signifieth this word iudicare as the Apostle him-selfe doth interpret it Then it followeth that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him-selfe doth not now binde man otherwise then for the

homini Christtano indulgentia potest dari qui firmiter credat Papam posse dare se posserecipere habeat charitatem in affectu vt sit verè contritus confessus Of the parte of him that receiueth ae pardon it is required that he haue faith in vnderstanding because a pardon cannot be giuen but to a Christian man which steadfastlie beleeueth that the Pope is able to giue and he able to receiue and that he haue charitie in affection that he be truelie contrite and confessed More then this beside the fulfilling of the cause for which the pardon was graunted he doth not require In so much that he alloweth that a man maie receiue a pardon for his father and mother whether they be liuing or dead if the Pope doe so applie his pardon that he which will goe ouer the sea or to S. Iames in his fathers or mothers name shall inioie it for them and the receiuer doth performe as much for them The iust cause of graunt in the giuers is determined by the glosse aforesaid to be the honour of God and the exaltation of faith by such profitable workes as are expressed and required in the pardons as pilgrimage saying of such a praier giuing to such a fraternitie c. in which not the quantitie but the kinde of the worke is to be considered so that for a verie small worke maruelous large pardon maie be graunted if it please the Pope to whome the dispensation of the treasure of the Church is principallie committed for Bishops which are able to giue but fortie daies out of that treasure are but pettie baylies whome if you will accuse for lauishing the treasure in graunting of ouer large pardons you break the Canon lawe which telleth you that you must not call him to an account for his doings ALLEN Neuertheles the causes of giuing indulgencies may be more or lesse reasonable according to the state and varietie of thinges which to the wisdome of Gods Vicar in earth is best seene whome Christ so ruleth in that case that he maie be most beneficiall to his holie houshold in so much that it is not to be doubted but in these daies and in this great contempt of deuout and religious exercises the moouing onely of the people to prayer to holie peregrinations to the obedience of the Church may be a sufficient cause why there should be to praiers said vpon bookes beads or sanctified creatures for such purpose annexed great remission For looke what thinges be moste condemned of heretikes those things must Christian men be induced to reuerence with moste singular zeale religion Neither can there be anie thing in the worlde so necessarie for vs christian men of these times that be so voide of good workes as by deuotion and entire zeale to ioyne with our elders that in the holy communion of Sainctes we may be partakers of their vertuous deedes And that is the verie ende of all the Popes Pardons to make vs in our lake of satisfaction for our sinnes felowes and coparteners of the abundance that was in Christ first and then by him in our holy brethren departed before vs. FVLKE Throughout this chapter hitherto you haue disputed against the power of the Pope and the force of his pardons now it is time for you to coie him againe and to raise vp his pardons which you haue pressed downe so lowe Now the wisdome of Gods vicar is sufficient to iudge the causes of giuing indulgences and Christ so ruleth him in that case that he maie be moste beneficiall to his houshold in so much that it is not to be doubted but in these daies the Popes large pardons for litle workes may be of great force Then belike your former discourse serueth not for these daies that men muste fulfill their penance if they maie notwithstanding anie pardon that a pardon doth not remit anie good worke inioyned in penance that if a man lack power to fulfill this penance he must supplie it with other workes counteruailable or els the Popes pardons shall not be beneficiall to them at all or nothing so much as they seeme to sound But why saie you that in these daies Christ ruleth his Vicar in this case that he maie be most beneficiall to his holie houshold Hath not Christ as great care of his holy houshold the Church in all times and in all cases as in these daies and in this case Yes verilie But Christ hath not alwaies and in all cases ruled the Pope as it might be moste beneficiall to his Church for then his key of iurisdiction should neuer haue erred nor his life bene wicked to the great hurte and shame of his Church that I speake not of his criors in doctrine which you will not graunt as you doe the other Therfore it followeth that the Pope is not Christes vicar in earth appointed for the most benefite of his Church Your principle that thinges which heretikes doe hate must be moste reuerenced is false For nothing is to be esteemed more then the nature of the thing requireth whether it be loued or hated of heretikes The Anabaptists hate the wearing of armour it followeth not therefore that the wearing of armour should be counted a religious thing or more reuerenced then as a lawfull vsage and sometimes necessarie among Christians The verie end of the Popes pardons is well known to be the maintenance of the Popes pride and couetousnes the pretended end is wicked blasphemous derogating from the sacrifice of Christs death which is a full satisfaction and purging of all our sins the participation wherof is through faith wrought in our hearts by the spirite of God and not by the Popes application or coupling of anie Saintes merites with the onelie and omnisufficient sacrifice of Christ. ALLEN Vpon all which it is verie plaine that euerie man can not beneficiallie receiue the fruite of a Pardon this at least being requisite in euery man that listeth to attaine benefite thereby that he be in state of grace aud in earnest intent to continue in the knot of Christ his Church with loue and liking of the holie workes of his Christian brethren and accomplishing at least that small worke which commonlie now is ioyned to the Pardon for increase of Christian deuotion The continuance of which deuotion that more and more decaieth maketh the Pardons to be more common at this daie of late yeares then they were in the primitiue Church when moste men in the spring of Christian religion and feruour of faith sought to satisfie exactlie the debt of the penance or else which was a common case then recompensed it by Martyrdom though S. Gregorie the first of that name more then nine hundered yeare since in the ordering of the slations at Rome is knowne to haue giuen Pardons for yeares or daies in like forme as now is vsed And cleare it is that the thing it selfe being found lamfull no Protestant aliue can euer be able

a lordly authoritie and imperiall souer aignitie he knoweth not by what right except it be from sathā But we know that frō sathā the first father of falsehood come these shameles lies of their vsurpation of Lordship or affectation of imperiall soueraignitie Wel yet he proceedeth and saith the Bishops doe excommunicase them and the Princes banish them God sheweth no signe for them except it be a miracle to make the liue starke dead while they faine that they are able by the vertue of there gospell to restore the dead to life as one Mathias did in Polonia And the like is reported of Caluine credibly in Geneua Touching the excommunication and banishment by the Prelates of Antichrists Church and Princes thrall vnto the same it ought to be no more preiudice to the preachers of the Gospell now then the condemnation of the high priestes of Pilate and Herod was to the author of the Gospell of olde As for miracles they are not to be required where the same doctrine is taught which so long agoe hath beene confirmed by the miracles of Christ and his Apostles and those fables of raising vp dead men by Caluine and others are like the tales of Robin Good-fellow which are reported to be done in so many places that no wise man thinketh them to be done in any Next this followeth a wholl floode of tedious rhetoricall railing in generall accusations of schisme heresie tumulis sedition rebellion contempt of Princes and lawes order and honestie At length he desireth to be excused of his bitternes in respect of the cursed mouthes of them which raile against Princes and Prelates Yet bringeth no example but of Luthers penne whome many men wish in deede to haue vsed a more temperate stile sometime especiallie against Princes temporall estates and he himselfe did openlie acknowledge his faulte therein especiallie his immoderate inuection against King Henrie the 8. But as For the Pope and his wicked cleargie of heretikes the vngodlie enemies of Christ and his Gospell it were a hard matter to exceede measure in vehemencie against them so lies slaunders be alwaies auoided If Luther saied that the Turke in suffering all religions is wiser then Popish Princes in persecuting the gospell I see not that his saying is greatlie to be misliked For it is more wisedome to follow Gamaliels councell in letting all alone then to fight against god against whome they are sure not to preuaile That Luther diswaded al men to obey the vngodlie decree of the Emperour proclaimed at Wormes who can iustlie be offended which knoweth that the obedience to Princes may not be yealded with manifest disobedience vnto God But here a great matter Luther saied in hearing of the Emperour at Wormes vpon those wordes of our Sauiour Christ in the Gospell I came not to send peace but the sword That it ought to be a thing wished for as moste acceptable to Christistian men and especiallie vnto him that strife and contention should rise and grow about the worde of God The witnes of this report is Lindane who farseth his Dialogues of dubitantius with al manner of fables that he can heare sounding to the discredit of Luther and the Protestants Although I see not what great harme should be in these words being vnderstood according to the saying of our sauiour Christ that seeing all men will neuer agree to imbrace the word of God it were to be wished that many men would contend against the impugners for it then that al men should agree to withstand it But Luther is charged to haue set out to the view of the wholl worlde seditious and heresicall bookes wherein he laboured to abolish all due obedience and to perswade the people torebellion robbing murth er sacking and burning of Citties and Churches I hope there is no man so farre caried beyond all iudgement of reason that he will beleeue this slaunder to be true seeing it is not possible that such a monster as he faineth him to be should haue beene so much fauoured and cherished by Princes and estates as Luther was Neuerthelesse you shall heare his proofes First Wicelius Luthers enemie reporteth that he saied that men should wash their handes in the bloode of the Romish cleargie If this reporte were true it prooueth not the former accusation For allbeit the Popish cleargie were all slaine by lawfull authoritie in detestation of there blasphemie and idolatry The gouernment both of the Church and common wealth should neuer the more decay but how are we bound to beleue Wicelius without proofe in this or in any other matter Then saith Frarine he affirmed in his writinges that it was the verie nature of the Gospell to mooue and stirre vp warre sedition that there ought to be no Magistrate no superiour at all among Christian men For which he quoteth Epist. ad frat infer Ger. which is an impudent fiction For he neuer writte anie such epistle or taught anie such doctrine but the cleane contrarie of the necessitie of Magistrates in al Christian common wealths Secondlie he chargeth him to haue written lib. de Potest seculari that men ought to pray to God that the vplandish men obey not their Princes nor goe to warre against the Turke the title of which booke finde not in his workes And sure I am no such matter is conteined in anie booke of what title soeuer but contrariwise he writeth many treatises against the rebellious Bowres verie earnestlie condemning their disobedience and sedition Thirdlie he quoteth lib. contr duo edict Caesaris that men shoulde contribute nothing towardes the charges of the warres against the Turke which is malitiouslie construed as though he denied tribute to the Emperour whereas he commendeth the iudgemét of the slates of Germany which when the Emperour would yelde nothing to their requestes for the libertie of religion denied to graunt him a subsidie or contribution which he required vnder a pretence to resist the Turke when his purpose seemes rather to be bent against the French King and perhaps euen against them whose monie he defireth to be giuen him He warneth them also that they attempt not rashly to warre vpon the Turke who in councell and moderation doth farre excell these Princes and liuing as they did might hope of no victory Forthlie he noteth lib de bello contra Turcam and Luther assert artic 24 that it was not lawfull for Christian men to warre against the Turke and whosoeuer did fight against the Turke fought against Gods punishment Whereas Luthers meaning was in anie such writings that those Christians which were vnder the Turkes dominion and had free libertie of there religion should not rebell against him although they were otherwise grieuouslie oppressed Last of all he alledgeth out of his booke de 〈◊〉 Babil that neither man nor angell had anie authoritie at all to make anie law or one syllable whereunto Christian men should be bound to obey more or longer then it pleaseth them For we are said

Luther free from all thinges and there could be no hope of reformation except all lawes of men were abolished and the Gospell of libertie 〈◊〉 home with much more to the like effect whereupon Fowler the wise man con cludeth in the margent that Luther chiefe preacher of that Gospell would haue beene king alone him selfe and of those his pardoxes sprang the rebellion of Muntzer and the Boores. But good God what shame haue the Papistes in slaundering Luther in that booke speaketh of the spirituall freedome of conscience which Christ hath purchased for vs and which ought not to be entangled with anie traditions or preceptes of men against ciuill lawes and ordinances he writeth not one sillable But whereas the false Prophet and traitor Muntzer boasted that he did fight the Lordes battells Frarine calleth Melancthon to witnes that Luther affirmed the same namelie that God him selfe did rise and stand against the estates of Germanie and their tyrannie And who doubteth but how wicked soeuer the attempt doings of those seditious persons were that God vsed them as a scourge to punish the sinnes of the rulers That Luther prophecied of the victorie of the rebells it is a fable as manie others are which Frarine reporteth but contrar iwise in his writing against them he threatneth them destruction both of bodie and soule except they gaue ouer their diuelish enterprices After the discourse of the Muntzerian rebelles he commeth to Luthers marriage with a Nunne against which he inueigheth in two respectes First of the time which was immediatlie after the calamitie of Germanie And then of the person which was a Nunne stolne with eight others out of the Nunnerie of Nimike vppon good frydaie by his Bawde Leonard Knoppen after which time shee was broken with wanton toies and lecherous recreations by the space of two yeares among the schollers of wittenberg yea Luther tooke it no scorne to daunse and drinke carouse c. and all for verie penance and sorow of these mischiefes whereof he himselfe was author Though manie men misliked Luthers mariage with a Nunne which he perhaps did the rather to confirme by his owne act the libertie of matrimonie in them that had made a rash vow which they were not able to performe yet no wise man I hope beleeueth that he made no better choise then Frarine affirmeth or that he was of so light behauiour to daunse drinke carouse of all which slaunders there is no proofe brought but Frarines bare affirmation whose bould lying els where dogged scorning here let indifferent men iudge what credit it deserueth But whereas Luther did write most vehe mently against the seditious Boores by which the impudent slaunders of Frarine are most manifest he conuicted he now faineth that Luther turning with the blast of fortune when they were ouerthrowne did write most bitterlie against them affirming that the nobles might winne heauen by shedding the blood of such traiterous rebelles whereas it is manifest that Luther hauing diuerse times before by his writings at their first attemptes diswaded them from rebellion and exhorted them to obedience when by no meanes they would yeelde to his Godlie persuasions did at the last most sharplie inueigh against them and denounce their vtter destruction but yet at such time as they were in the ruffe of their rebellion when they were moste terrible to all good men after they had cōmitted many horrible outrages yet may Luther the traiterous Cateline of our time be thanked for al these bloodie tragidies not of them onlie but for the turkish wars also For he citeth out of Stoltius in somnio Luth c. that Luther came in fauour with Soliman the great Turke by such practises yea Solyman wrote in plaine wordes but he sheweth not to whome that he wished Luther long life that he hoped the daie should come that Luther should finde him his good ma ster Doth any man beleeue these vanities yet Fowler in his infamous picture would haue it seeme as though the Turke by his letters was called to make warre vpon Christendome But Frarine saith more craftelie that by occasion of debate about the Lutherane Gospell and so through Luthers meanes the Turke conceaued hope to conquer all Germanie when he came to the Citie of Vienna beeing the key of Christ endome with such a huge great host What if this be graunted is Luther which preached the Gospel of Christ the cause of the Turkes inuasion or they that will not embrace the trueth of God by him reueiled But he cleane omitteth by whose good seruice that noble Citie of Vienna was defended against the Turke that worthy prince Phillip the Palesgraue a fauerour of the religion reformed As also it is certaine that Solyman by the prouocation of Iohn the vaiuode made by his embassadour Ierome Laske an Hungariā was called into Hungarie Austrige against the Emperor and his brother Ferdinande by whome he was debarred to enioy that right which he pretended to haue to the kingdom of Hungarie so true it is that Luther was the onelie cause of Solymans inuasion of Christendome Likewise where Charles the fift without iust cause made war vpon the princes and states of Germanie that were entred into the legue of Smalcalde as the stories of that warre and the protestation of the states sufficientlie declare to satisfie the Popes crueltie and oppresse the libertie of Ger many Frarine maketh a great matter of their resistance saying that Germanie should haue obeyed him at a beck as though the king of Spaine were made Emperor of Almaine not for the defence of Germanie according to the auncient priueliges and liberties thereof but to the vtter ouerthrough and destruction of the same But his victorie pleaseth Frarine well and no cause why it should displease vs seing it pleased god so to punish the securitie of Germanie and to shew how vaine it is to trust in the strength of men Albeit Charles caried not this victorie cleare for while he keepeth no couenantes with the conquered and against the laws of armes deteined the Lantgrane prisoner who of his owne accord came vnto him to entreat of agreement his vniust dealings prouoked euen those whome he had most aduaunced to seeke reuenge of his falsehood by meanes where of he susteined more ignomine in the end then euer he gat glorie in the beginning of those warres But if Frarine thinke it so necessarie for Germanie to be at the Emperours beck in all cases whie did he not perswade the Louanians and all other Popish states of the lowe countries to be obedient at a beck to all the commaundements of the Spanish King their sufferaigne But if the King of Spaines sufferaignetie was not so absolute but that it was limited within the compasse of certaine conditions against which they were not bound to obey let him not doubt but Germanie hath better ground of their doings then all the young Oratours of Louane haue witte to controll As

of their handes as euen at this present that vile Antichrist ceaseth not to practise against the moste lawfull and Christian Queene of England But by what scriptures saith Frarine did you conspire at Geneua like villaines traitorous to murther king Frauncis and the scottish Queene his wife his mother brethren and all the nobles and Catholike osficers of Fraunce Surelie I know not what conspiracy he meaneth I remember not that I haue hard of anie in the time of Frauncis but that wherof ensued the tumult of Amboyse neuer allowed at Geneua as the letters of Caluine to his friendes doe testifie nor heard of vntill it was on foote and suppressed The beginning where of was at Nantes in Britanie The purpose was to remooue the Guisians from gouernment The articles of which diuers were these That nothing should be done against the King the Princes of his blood and the state of the realme That their dignitie and the liberty of their country should be defended as much as might be frō the violence of straungers But if you aske Frarine how he knoweth all this he answereth by a book set out in print vnder the kings priuiledge intituled Defence Reg Relig. As though all must needes be as true as the Gospell which is printed with priuiledge where it were more reason that he should giue credit to the kings owne edict of pacificatiō signed with his hand printed with priuiledge and proclamied with sound of trumpet in all cities of his realme in which he cleareth the princes and them that tooke armes for his libertie against the Guisians and the mantainance of the edict of Iaunarie of all crime of treason and sedition and acknowledgeth that they did all thinges in his seruice and to his honour But Frarine being at Orleans in the time of that warre did see with his eies a seditious sibell printed in the name of all Hugonites wherein was nothing but impudent bouldnes threatning and weason Neuerthelesse he confesseth that this libell was not allowed of the Prince and states when he saieth the printer was kept and feasted a few daies with the officers of that towne within their houser instead of a prison Belike the libell was not so harnous as Frarire affirmeth else it is not to be thought but that the printer should haue had greater punishment Cōcerning Goodmans booke being of the same argument and ume with that of Knoxe before mentioned shall need no other answer then I set downe before But a greater accusation is behinde When the Emperour Charles was entangled at Oenipont the great Turk was requested to make warre in defence of there Gospell and the Bassa of Bude to set vpon his brother Ferdinande in Hungarie Who affirmeth this Staphilus the runnegate which neuer lied or rather which seldome spake the truth tush saith Frarine the letters of that conspiracie were taken their treason by no coloure can be cloked Whose letters Frarine by whome were they taken by whom were they sent to whome were they directed If you answere nothing we saie it is as easie for you or Staphilus to faine the taking of letters as the conspiracie with the Turk The next complaint is of abolishing the laws of the Imperial chamber that all things may be decided with fire sword as Brunus saith which is an impudent slaunder For Germanie was neuer in greater peace quieines since the reformatiō of the vnreasonable customes of that court more then thirtie yeares agoe As for the abro gating of the ciuill lawes and making of a new policie of their owne deuise which he saith appeareth by manie bookes libelles is a foolish slaunder not worthie of any answer seeing he nameth no author of those bookes by which it might appeare that the Protestants had such fantastical coies in their heades Vnto the last place he reserued the weightiest matter of all and that is their contempt of the councell of Trent in railing at all the Prelates Princes in refusing to come thether vnder sufficient safe conduct As for Princes which are no part of the councel it is false that they contemned them but Antichrist and his rable of Idolatrous Priestes and prelates deserue a worse thing then contempt that they refuse to come to the Chapter of Trent among manie reasons they haue two most euident to defend thē For the tragedie of Constance councell doth admonish them that no safe conduct can be sufficient among papistes And where he which is chiefly accused of heresy Idolatry wil be the only iudge of al cōtrouersies what should it auaill them to be heard in such a councell in which is an hundreth times lesse equitie then was shewed in anie hereticall councell of Arrianes Nestorianes Eutichianes or anie other auncient heretikes And now he is come to the third and last section of his circle to declare how cruellie they haue behaued themselues in their wars what hurth ath come by them in which part after much vain babling general accusing of all faith religion iustice chastitie deuotion learning nurture goodnes godlines banishea from many places persons planting of Turkish hethenish Iewish vnsensible blindnes at last he touch eth particulares that Lu ther by that verse of his Host is erā 〈◊〉 moriens tua mors ero Papa Thine enimie I was liuing and thy death O Pope I wil be dying attempted the vtter ouerthrow both of the spiritualtie and of the Empire by what reason I know not for I see no consequence but as the rising of the Pope was by the decaie of the Empire so the falling of the pope whose enimy Luther threatned to be quick and dead would be the establishing and aduancement of the Empire After this he reckoneth the expences trauayles and care of minde that Charles the fifth was put vnto by fighting against them For answere whereof it maie be said that Charles the fift with more gaine les labour thought of minde first and last might haue suffered them to inioie their religion according to the libertie of Germanie and not to haue made such cruell warre vpon them for no iust cause as he did Further our Orator czieth out how manie cities castler Abbies Hospitalles schooles colledges Pallaces gentelmens houses and cloisters hath this gospelish rebellion quite ouerthrowen and sacked All which damages who seeth not are to to be ascribed to their fault who were authores of vniust warres and not of the Protestants whoe were either defenders of their liberty or reuengers of intollerable iniarie It is a pleasant iest with Frarine when he saith their gospel is both negatiue destructiue of al goodnes As if it were not as easy for vs to say that papistrie is both affirmatiue extructtiue of al wickednes God be thanked we affirme al that the holy scripture affirmeth the rest we are bolde to denie we are willing to build both spiritually and bodilie whatsoeuer appertaineth to the glorie of God and the pro