reade my Aduersaries Reply will easily perceaue him vnworthy to be honoured by an Answer and most vnworthy to haue his name or Caracters mentioned in your Highnesse presence but when the cause it selfe is Gods and belongs as part thereof to the common cause of our Church I would not by despising a meane Aduersary forsake it or giue occasion to any that had vsed my former Booke to misdoubt what I haue written but hauing in my priuate life many spare howres whereof I must one day giue account I would bestow them the best way in doing something that might helpe my countreymen out of their superstition And although my Aduersary with whom I deale be of no great note for the Heralds cannot finde his pedigree till they come to Noes Arke yet his arguments and discourse transcribed from Doctor Stapleton and Gregory of Valence two of their chiefest writers being such as are most vsed for the depressing of the Scripture and succession of our Church and for the aduancing of the Popes authority in the matters of faith I vnderstand to be so gratefull to Zenoes disciples by reason they relish so pleasingly of the Coriāder that I haue thought it not amisse to bestow my answer that if reason and the truth will do it they may be satisfied The truth is of that composition and strength it selfe that God can relieue it by his weakest instruments in whom he shewes his power and workemanship against his proudest aduersaries Deus ita artifex magnus in magnis vt minor non sit in minimis And therefore S. Austine confesses to him Omnipotens manus tua semper vna eadem creauit in coelo Angelos in terra vermiculos non superior in illis non inferior in istis And this my poore indeauour I most humbly present to your Highnesse whose gracious speeches not long since to me both touching my former writing and this Defence thereof then scarce begun haue imboldened me though my owne affection I thinke it selfe would haue swayed me herein if I had neuer seene your Highnesse The generall apprehension of the good which the Church obtaines by your most gracious zeale and constancy for religion the liuely sence whereof infuseth it selfe as the soule into the parts of the body into all quarters not of your kingdome alone but of the Christian world round about vs moues all men to your Highnesse whose sufferings endured for the same at the hands of Antichrist his ministers haue taught vs that the greatest Princes liuing as well as meaner persons may be persecuted for the testimony of Christ and being possessed with the zeale of his house can and will in defence thereof expose themselues their crown their reputation their children their life and all the hopes of this world to the most imbruted enemies that euer were and neglecting the deceiueable pleasures of their Court and trampling their owne greatnesse vnder their feete can tell how to make themselues a way to eternity and by cleauing to the Church and resisting Antichrist assure their state and make their honour greater and lay vp in their bosome the assured hope of a better kingdome in the world to come This is it most dread Soueraigne that affects vs all and leades your poore subiects towards you that now whatsoeuer any is able to speake to write to thinke to breath he thinkes to be yours by right by whose meanes and example all men speake and write and thinke breath the purer Veget. procem ad Valentinian and in affection where Princes reigne but by permission we feele our selues to be yours so farre that vnfainedly we think Neque recte aliquid inchoari nisi post Deum fauerit Imperator Which our Aduersaries shall now giue vs leaue to say the freelier where the Kings learning matches his power and without the helpe of any mans flattery is seene to board their Colledges that whose countries and persons he gouernes not by his lawes their Schooles and consciences he begins to ouerrule with his disputations Which thing we hold to be so farre from impairing Royall dignity that * Suarez he who hath said it must hereafter be deemed one of the King of Arragons oxen when Non hominis sed Bouis vocem este respondit Alphons apud Anton Panorm l. 1. Naueler after so many mightie Princes in all ages honoured more for their learning and writing◠then for all their greatnesse besides Dauid Solomon Iulius Caesar Constantine and Charles the Great Iustinian Leo Palaeologus Cantacuzenus the Alphonsi and diuers more after the Emperour Sigismund commended for playing the Deacon at the Councell of Constance Henry the eight writing for the seauen Sacraments whose booke subscribed with his hand they glory to haue in the Vatican Posseuin Concil Mediol 1. sub Borthom the Cardinall of Millan thinking it the highest commendation he could giue the late king of Spaine in eius regia dignitate vt verbo complectar sacerdotalem animum licet aspicere he will now haue the vse of your Highnesse pen in maintenance of your lawes and religion and whereby most graciously it pleased you to offer them instruction before you would execute your authority against them to be the laying by of your imperiall dignity neuer remembring that for a king to descend to the Preacher I the Preacher haue bene king in Ierus Eccl. 1.12 is the worke of piety and clemency towards his subiects but for the Priest to climbe into the kings throne and play the Monarch is the brand of Antichrist 2 Sam. 14. The King is as the angel of God in hearing of good and bad his words will seasonably giue your Highnesse occasion by speedy and diligent execution of your lawes to let Iesuites and Seminaries and the disciples of Hildebrand see you are a King still that by assuming the Doctor when you please can teach them their duties and by exercising your power when you haue done will repell their practises with effect and free your people from their presumptions Their shamelesse abusing your Highnesse lenity and taking spirit by being suffered to multiplie their contestations against your sacred person gouernement and people makes vs all wish when Edicts do no good they might heare the Lyon rore that his voice might once chase such cowardly beasts out of the forrest and vnearth them too if they would still be running into their holes for harbour The Landgraue of Hesse a milde and gracious Prince but whose clemencie was much abused being cast by aduenture on a Smithes forge ouerheard what the Smith said all the while he was striking his iron Oth. Meland Duresce inquam duresce vtinam Langrauius durescat And the presumption of this generation is such in corrupting the truth with their bookes and opposing it with their heresies in casting the state also and your sacred person into those manifest and dismall perills from which they will neuer desist so long as they are among vs that your
more clearely declared and more strongly confirmed by A.D. student in Diuinitie Wherein I mislike diuers things First that he stiles it A REPLY which is nothing lesse when he replies neither to all nor in forme to any thing but onely repeating the conclusions and arguments of some part of the Treatise mentioned and without any order making choise of what he lists in my booke to confute he sets downe my answers imperfectly and skipping from one thing to another and dissembling or quite omitting the strength and substance of that I writ he replies to few things in comparison and most an end occupies himselfe in rehearsing things that he should haue defended This is a sorie kind of Replying and a We hold it VNWORTHY the title of an Answer wherein all the authors best reasons are dissembled and quite omitted Bâ—â—arl protest apol p 61 vnworthy the Title especially in these dayes when our Seminaries haue challenged to themselues such an opinion of substantiall dealing and going through-stitch with euery thing they take in hand and the poore Booke hauing bene so terribly threatned They haue had it now foure yeares to blow vpon and many heauie imputations haue bene layed vpon it by no meane persons of their sect that would seeme to haue skill and courage and is all now resolued into this poore REPLY If they thought it vnworthy the answering why would they meddle with it If they would needs be medling why haue they not done it sincerely and in forme I haue b Onus eccl p. 30. n. 13. read how not farre from Rome there hath bene heard in the aire as it were the noise of an armie and blowing of trumpets and going off of gunnes as if there had bene some great businesse towards and yet when men haue come neare to view they haue seene nothing but a heard of swine and the footings of certaine strange beasts vpon the ground this be like was to warne the Pope that the noise of his champions and clamouâ—s of his people was but a meteore that would end in a little gruntling and trampling 2 Next I mislike the concealing of his name and shrouding of himselfe vnder a couple of letters yet because the ordinary practise thereof seemes to haue legitimated it I will forbeare all other kinde of censuring and onely in the words of three of his owne side let him see what I might say of it The first is c Search p. 16. Walsingham When I came to view and peruse the booke and finding it to be without name of author hauing onely a most bitter intitulation I began first to maruell at that because I did see no reason why any Protestant writer should conceale his name in so worthy a matter as is the defence of his religion for which his labour and learned trauell he might assuredly hope for so great praise and commendation not onely from men but reward from God also whose truth and Gospell he should acquit from such and so great blemishes of falshood and vntruth as were by the aduersaries thereof obiected against it So he The second is Cardinall Bellarmine d Tract de potest sum Pont. adu Baâ—cl praefat Hee that set foorth Barklies booke neither put to his name nor the name of the Printer or place where it was printed he was afraid belike and not without cause either that he should be punished or discommended for it These are no signes of a good worke For he that euill doth hateth the light lest his workes be reproued whereas he that doth the truth comes to the light that his workes may be knowne to be of God Ioh. 3. The third is Iesuite Becane e Quaest Batav opusc tom 3. p. 140. Yea but you haue another name which you dissemble What 's the reason Your Hollanders will thinke one thing but I thinke another MY OPINION IS YOV DO IT THAT YOV MAY THE MORE SECVRELY LIE AND PLAY THE IMPOSTOR It is not said for nothing in the Gospell He that euill doth hateth the light and in the Epistle to the Thessalonians They that are drunke are drunke in the night And certainly IF YOV WERE A GOOD MAN YOV WOVLD NOT BE ASHAMED OF YOVR NAME to confesse who you are now when you do otherwise how can any man chuse but suspect you When you flie the light WHO WILL NOT TAKE YOV FOR A NIGHT-BIRD But Papists may do that which is not permitted vs. For f Poggh faceâ— the Pope was wont to haue his iester when he told him tales to make him sport to do it standing behind a cloth in a corner for being outfaced And it should seeme our Seminary-priests haue obtained the same fauour that standing out of fight behind the shreene they may be the bolder to vtter that which being bashfull they would be loath to speake bare faced If this be so I am satisfied good reason euery Order enioy his priuiledge 3 In the Title also hee calls vs Ministers g Such is the ordinarie and common ignominie and dishonor to be reputed a MINISTER in the English Church that I suppose very few or no Catholike Priests of that nation would change their HONOVR euen in England with so base and infamous a generation R. B. resolut relig p 54. Of which HONOVR of Popish Priests in the times past one writes Nam homines Ecclesiastics sua culâ—a ita profanarunt sâ— ordinem suum quod iam planè à magnis à paruâ—s in toto mundo habeantur despectui Ioh. Mar. Belg. de schism concil pag. 467. ex Alan Chartier in contempt But we haue the vantage of him for whereas he cannot shew one place in all the new Testament where the Preachers of the Gospell and Pastors of the Church are intitled Priests as he is albeit the name may be vsed well enough in his due sense by those that are the Ministers of Iesus Christ and not the vassals of Antichrist we can shew where they h Act. 13.2 20 24. 1. Cor. 4 1. 2. Cor. 3 6. 5.18 Eph. 3.7 4.12 6.21 Col. 1.7.23.27 4.7 1. Thess 3 2.1 Tim. 4.6 2. Tim 4.5.11 are called Ministers and their worke Ministerie and our contentment is that being called to the worke of this Ministerie we carie a Name that imports no more Whereas Masse-priests and Soulepriests Friars Iesuites and Seminaries not onely are the titles of those that weare Christs liuerie and do seruice to Antichrist but are become the names of the vnnaturallest monsters and wickedst persons that liue in the world as all the Churches and States thereof this day feele by experience and this kingdome can well testifie 4 Vnder the Title he writes this sentence of Scripture Ecclesia est columna firmamentum veritatis The Church is the pillar and firmament of truth 1. Tim. 3. He had read belike in i Rat. 3. Campian that the name of the Church would terrifie the Protestants and
ours are prohibited in popish countreys that if any ignorant or malicious Minister would falsely report what the Church of Rome holds yet they may heare the aduersaries tell their owne tales hauing partly through their policie partly through the conniuencie of the Superiour that libertie to publish their writings that our selues haue not much more Next the Ministers of England both in their preaching writing and conference report the doctrine of Papists as truly as it is deliuered in their owne bookes and obserued out of their conuersation but many of them are so foule and vile that they may not endure the reporting and therefore when we mention them they denie them and are ashamed of them as many are of their bastards an euident example whereof the Iesuite giues in this place for the points here mentioned are truly related and are neither shamelesse nor slanderous not yet vntruths but the sincere and faithfull report of that execrable doctrine that Papists and none but Papists haue taught and practised and because the Iesuite is somewhat peremptorie in denying this I must put him in minde that I shewed in THE WAY euery one of these points out of their bookes and for the clearer discharge of my selfe and all others that obiect these things to them I will yet againe shew them one by one 6 First they hold the Popes Lordship ouer the Scripture Cardinall Cusanus b Ep. 2. writes The Scripture is fitted to the time and variably vnderstood so that at one time it is expounded according to the fashion of the Church and when that fashion is changed the sence of the Scripture is also changed c Ep. 3. Againe When the Church changeth her iudgement God also changeth his And d Ep. 7. no maruell seeing the letter of the Scripture is not of the essence of the Church if the practise of the Church at one time interprete the Scripture of this fashion and another time on that The Councell of Trent hath anathematized him that shall denie this his Lordship a Sess 24. can 3 If anie man say that onely those degrees of consanguinitie and affinitie which are expressed in Leuiticus can hinder mariage to be contracted and dissolue that which is contracted and that his Lordship the Church cannot dispense in many of them or ordaine more degrees to hinder and dissolue let him be anathema D. Stapleton b Princip fid pag. 351. Relect pag. 514. affirmes that the Church his Lordship may adde other bookes to the Canon of the Scripture which yet belong not thereunto Cardinall Hosius c De autor sac Script lib. 3. pag. 169. defendeth that the Scriptures were of no more authoritie then Aesops Fables but that the Church and Popes approoued it Augustinus Anconitanus d Qu. 60. art ◠sayes that his Lordshippe may dispence in the Law of Moses Delgado e De auth scrip pag. 47 48. writes that the assertions of the Pope in matters of Faith reach as farre as the teaching of the Apostles or the holy Scripture and he sayes There are who allow them to appertaine to the diuine Scripture f Trac de iurisd pag. 64. part 1. Idem Capistrā de auth Papae concil p. 95. D. Marta sayes The Pope in his administration is greater then Paul and may dispense against him in things not concerning the articles of faith Secondly they hold his Lordship ouer the Fathers D. Marta sayes g De iurisdict par 4. pag. 273. The common opinion of the Doctors is not to be regarded when another contrarie opinion fauours the power of the keyes or a pious cause Thirdly touching Councels h Azor. instit tom 2. pag. 574. Bellar. de conc l. 2. c. 13. 17. Antonin sum mor. par 2. tit 3. c. 11. §. 10. Turrecr sum de eccl l. 3 c. 63. concl 1. l. 2. c. 104. Caiet tract de autho Pap. concil c. 6. 7. 10. 11. apol eius tract par 2. c. 7. 8. 9. 10. Capist p. 104. b. Allan de potest dup n. 74. the Iesuites hold that the Popes iudgement is to be preferred before a whole Councell Dominicus Iacobatius a Cardinall i Tract de concil l. 6. art 2. pag 337. B. Romae per Ant. Blad an 1538. in fol. sayes that in causes of faith if the Pope haue the iudgement of his Cardinals concurring with him then without doubt albeit the doubt arising were most difficult yet the Popes opinion were to be preferred before a generall Councell And that no man thinke the Cardinals haue power to ouer-rule or sway him so that he should not Lord it ouer them also Palaeotus himselfe a Cardinall and practised in the Consistorie many yeares k De consist part 5. q. 4. pag. 295. iude tels vs that when the Pope hath once determined a thing and is come to the end of his consultations the Cardinals must be so farre from dissenting that as obedient sonnes they must giue example to others of obedience yea subscribe to his Bull though it be against their conscience For the Popes authoritie depends not on the counsell giuen by Cardinals but rests on his owne will who of diuers opinions propounded to him may choose that which serueth rightest to himselfe Fourthly touching Scriptures Fathers Councels Church and all the world together Suarez the Iesuite l Tō 1. disp 44. sect 1. p. 677. B. sayes I grant therefore the Popes determination is the truth and were it contrarie to the sayings of all the Saints yet were it to be preferrrd afore them Nay if an Angell from heauen were opposed against him the Popes determination were to be preferred Fiftly they maintaine him to be aboue the Church as appeares by that hath bene said of his eminencie aboue and against Councels Palaeotus m De consist par 1. q. 2. p. 61. sayes that as a vniuersall agent he contains vnder his authoritie all Ecclesiasticall powers as particular agents and without exception he alone may forgive all mens sinnes and exercise iurisdidiction over all Sixtly he Lords it over Kings Iacobatius n Tract de Concil in fin vlt. c pag. 778. sayes The Emperor holds his Empire of the Church of Rome and may be called the Popes Vicar or Officiall Capistranus o De Authors Pap. concil pag 94. that to him as to Christ let euery knee be bowed and Emperors the greatest Princes submit their heads Bozius p De temporal Monarch pag. 52. hath written a booke to defend that the supreme temporall iurisdiction belongs to the Pope so that he is vniuersall Monarch of all the world D. Marta q Part. 1. pag. 45. de iurisdict sayes The Pope hath the same power that Christ had to rule ouer all nations and kingdomes Seuenthly that to Pay no debts to such as they count heretickes is the doctrine of our aduersaries r The way pag. 317. I shewed in the expresse words of
I say vnto you whatsoeuer you shall aske the Father in my name he will giue it you The Apostle also teaches that l Heb. 2.14.17 for so much as the children of God were partakers of flesh and blood he also himselfe the Mediator tooke part with them and in all things was made like to his brethren that he might be mercifull and a faithfull high priest in things concerning God that he might make reconciliation for the sinnes of the people These promises are such that it is the greatest ingratitude and impiety that can be to misdoubt them or by flying to any other to euacuate them m Pet. Crysolog One man trusts another vpon a bond or bill written in paper and a few lines of writing secure the greatest contracts that are yet the promises of Christ are still called in question and men mistrust his mercy so many bookes as there be in the Bible and so many lines as we haue written in the Scripture so many assurances we haue of his goodnes Euery word of the Gospell and euery Sacrament of the Church and euery drop of his blood shed vpon the crosse being our security to embolden vs to come vnto him 10 And whereas the pretence is n Alexan. 4. part qu. 92. in â— art 4. Bonau 4. d. 45. art 3. q. 3. n. 46. that it is for reuerence to God and to shew our Humility that * Gratias agimus Porphyri quod libris tuis Deorum tuorum substaÌ„tiam nobis prodidisti didicimus per te quatenus dij tui hominibus viuentibus serniant Iul Firmic error prof rel c. 14. like as men seeke to the King by the mediation of his seruants so we seeke to God by the mediation of his Saints This is expresly against the Scripture alledged that conclude our praiers are to be offered immediatly to and by Christ and when all things in this life are depraued with sin it is folly to make any thing therein the rule and example of our seruing God o Es 55.8 whose thoughts are not our thoughts and whose waies are farre aboue ours Princes do not alway vnderstand who giue attendance and sometime pride or state or busines lets them but it is not so with God p Vopisc in Aurelia paulo ante sinem p. â—08 The Emperor Dioclesians speech in Vopiscus will a little open this matter He would say after he was retired from the Empire to a priuate life That there was nothing more difficult then to gouerne well Foure or fiue persons combine themselues and take one counsell to deceiue the Emperor He being shup vp at home knowes the truth of nothing but is constrained to vnderstand that onely which they tell him Thus the good and wary Emperor is bought and sold This ineuitable ignorance in Princes mentioned by Dioclesian which appertaines not vnto God is reason why we vse mediators to them Let the words of Chrysostome touching this point be noted speaking of the woman of Canaan that cried after our Sauiour to heale her daughter Marke q Chrysost hom 16. ex var. in Matth. Loc. tom 2. saith he r Pag. 1193. the wisedome of the woman she askes not Iames nor beseeches Iohn nor goes to Peter nor minds the company of the Apostels she seekes no Mediator but in steed of them all she takes repentance into her company which was insteed of her Aduocate and so she goes to the fountaine it selfe Therefore saith she he descended and therefore he was made man that I also might haue confidence to speake vnto him Å¿ Pag. 1199. for if thou wilt intreate man possible he sleepes or is not at leisure or his seruant will vouchsafe thee no answer but vnto God there is neede of none of these things but wheresoeuer thou be or wheresoeuer thou callest vpon him hee heares thee There is no neede either of a porter or a mediatour or a Minister onely say Haue mercy on me and presently God will be with thee u Comment in Rom. c. 1. §. reuelatur p. 177. t Tom. 3. p. 1047 Learne of this woman that praying BY OVR SELVES we more preuaile with God then when OTHERS pray for vs. Saint Ambrose u Comment in Rom. c. 1. §. Reuelatur p. 177. sayes There be that shaming to heauen neglected God vsed this miserable excuse that by these they may go to God as by officers we go to the king but is any man so mad or so vnmindfull of his saluation as to giue the kings honour to an officer yet these men thinke themselues not guiltie who giue the honour of Gods name to a creature and forsaking the Lord adore their fellow seruants as though there were any thing besides that can be reserued to God For therefore men go to the king by Tribunes and officers because the king is but a man and knowes not to whom he may commit the state but for the promeriting of God who knowes all things and the desertes of all men there needes no helper but a deuout minde and he will answer such a one whensoeuer he speakes vnto him This holy Fathers iudgement was that God must be sought to immediatly without the intercession of any whosoeuer And this is it that Saint Paule meant in those words to the Colossians * Col. 2.18 Let no man beare rule ouer you by humblenesse of minde and worshipping of Angels wherein he rebukes the customes of those x 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chrysost tom 7. in Coloss see Balsam in coÌ„c Laod. ca. 35. which made Angels their intercessors as Papists do whose pretence was that it was too much arrogancie to pray immediately to God and therefore it were the better way to vse the intercession of Angels Thus the Greeke Scholiast y pa. 697. veron expounds it There were diuers that under the pretence of modestie forbad them to go to Christ by themselues because they were not worthie but the Angels must be intreated to bring vs to God saying * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it was a greater matter then to be brought by our selues through Christ thus bringing in the superstitious worship of Angels whom they neuer saw and Theodoret z On Col. 2. pag. 766. They who brought in the worshipping of Angels vsing the pretence of humility gaue counsell to pray to Angels saying that we could neither see nor comprehend nor come to God And therefore must winne vs his fauour by meanes of the Angels and thereupon he sayes that in the Councell of Laodicea it was ordained that no man should pray to Angels and reports as an abuse against this text that there were certaine oratories of Michael the Angel wherein they vsed to pray to him It is worth the marking to obserue how Baronius entertaines Theodoret for this exposition a Bellar. de beatit sanct c. 20. Rhem. Col. 2.18 Diuers before him labour to giue him a fauourable construction but marke how
the first rudiments of Christian Religion that there is but one onely God and therefore it may not be thought that so many reuerend and learned Bishops as were at that Councell whom this Minister malepertly calleth vnlearned and simple persons could euer haue conceiued and much lesse that they would haue definitiuely concluded so grosse an errour and published it to the world Nay the Nicene Councell was so farre from defining that images were to be worshipped with latria or diuine honour as expressely it denieth diuine honour to be done to them as appeareth by these wordes of that CouÌ„cel We define images to be honored c. that by looking vpon the painted images all that do behold them may come to the remembrance and desire of the things represented by them and may exhibite to them an honorable salutation and worship not according to our faith true latria which is due onely to the diuine honour Now as touching the Frankeford Councell first it was not Generall neither euer did the Popes Legates if they were present assent to condemne the Nicene Councell neither did the Pope euer confirme any such condemnation Besides no such condemnation is to be found in the Councell of Frankford all that is found being in a forged booke ascribed falsely to Charles the Great in which also that feigned canon which is cited as the canon of the Councell of Frankeford nameth not the Nicene but the Constantinopolitan Councell By which may appeare that the Author of the booke neither knew what the Nicene Constantinopolitan or Frankeford Councell did truely hold or decree but set downe that canon either by hearesaie or at aduenture by the imagination of his owne head 1 THat which I said touching the Councels of Neece and Frankeford was not to shew the errours that haue bene in Councels or to proue that generall Councels may erre in things of faith though it fully and vnauoideably do it but to let the reader see in that example how vnable our aduersaries are for all their confident boasting when things come to the triall to quit themselues And indeede in this one example among many any man may perceaue they are the most shifting and preuaricating companions that euer dealt not hauing any where to abide or rest their foote or any truth to stand vpon when things are put to the issue which appeares now the more by the Repliars intermedling who saying what he can to that I obiected and hauing had time to search what he could is yet fallen into those shifts and absurdities that no man looking with the face of a Christian would be taken in denying apparant truthes testified by all Antiquitie and confessed by many of his owne side and with a desperate conscience vttering euery word falser then other And I desire the reader to marke attentiuely if it be not true that I said that WHATSOEVER OPINION THEIR FAVORITES HAVE OF THEM yet when things are brought home to their triall these magnified Iesuites are the emptiest and idlest disputers that euer with so great ostentation set pen to paper First he saies I endeauour to proue that the Councell of Neece was condemned by the Councell of Frankeford for defining that the same adoration and seruice ought to be giuen to the images of Saints which is giuen to the diuine Trinitie This is vntrue for in my discourse I said no such thing but only that the secoÌ„d Nicene Councel hauing brought in the worship of images not affirming what kinde of worship whether such as is giuen the Trinity or of a lower degree the Emperor Charles assembled another at Frankeford and condemned it againe reiecting the Nicene Indeede the Emperours booke charges the Councell with decreeing that kinde of worship It was written in the booke of the Synod that they should be cursed which did not giue the same seruice and adoration to the images of Saints which is giuen to the diuine Trinitie But these are not my words neither are they alledged to that end but to confute certaine Papists that affirmed the Councell of Frankford condemned not the worship of images at all The same booke a Constantinus Constantiae Cypri Episcopus dixit Suscipio amplector honorabiliter sanctas venerabiles imagines secundùm ser ntium adorationis quod consubstantialâ— Trinitatâ— emitto qui sic non sentiunt anathemati submitto Constantius caeteris consentientibus Lib. Caroli pag. 382. ann 1549. in 16. reports that in that Councell Constantius the Bishop of Cyprus and the rest of the Bishops consenting with him saide hee would giue to images the same seruice and adoration that he gaue to the consubstantiall Trinitie And b Paâ—o an 794. nu 36. our aduersaries confesse the Councell of Frankford thought that of Nice to be of this mind but whether it were or no I affirmed not but onely that it decreed they should be worshipped This is his first vntruth 2 Next he sayes The Nicene Councell did not define that images were to be worshipped with honour onely due to God because such a grosse conceit could neuer haue entred into any Christian mans minde c. This reason affirmes another vntruth for Azorius a Iesuite c Iâ—stit moral l 9 c. 6. And the same is said by Pesâ—nt in Tho pag. 837. a. affirmes it to be the constant opinion of the Diuines in the Church of Rome that images must be adored with the same adoration that belongs to their samplar and he addes that the Councell of Nice insinuated so much Both the Councell of Nice therefore and the Diuines of the Church of Rome hold the Images of God and our Sauiour and the Crosse must be adored with diuine adoration because God and Christ is adored with diuine adoration and thus d Tho. 3. p. qu. 25. râ— 3. 4. Alexand. 3. p q. 30. m. 3. art 3. Ricar 3. d. 9 art 2. qu. 2. 3. Capreol art 1. concl 2. Ferrar. contr gent. l. 3. c. 120. ad 2. Turrecrem 3. p. de consecr c. crucis n 2 c. venerab n. 2. Silvest v. Latria n 2. Waldens de sacramental c. 119. Caiet in 3. p. Tho. q. 25 art 3. 4. Pesant â—isp 2. concl 3. Valentia tom 3. disp 6. qu. 11. punct 6. Bellar. imag l. 2. c. 23. Turrian pro Câ—nonic ep l. 1 c. 25. Andrad orthod explic l. 9. Iacob de Graff decis p. 1. l. 2. c. 3. n. 1. 4. Thyrrae de apparit pag. 81. n 2. Posseâ—â—n bibl select l. 8. c. 17. n. 23. â—and de imag c. 17. pag. 184. teach the most Schoole-men and Diuines that handle this matter as will appeare by viewing their bookes Which being so grosse a conceit as it is indeed let the Repliers censure fall vpon it hardly and let the Diuines of his Church go for such as are no Christians being ignorant of the rudiments of Christs religion and that there is but one God And let the world beware of such pestilent heretickes
into France whereupon in the time of the Emperour Charles the great and by the appointment of the Apostolicke sea a generall Councell called by the Emperour was celebrated at Francford in France which ACCORDING TO THE TRACT OF THE SCRIPTVRE AND TRADITION OF OVR ELDERS DESTROYED AND VTTERLY ABDICATED THAT FALSE SYNOD OF THE GREEKES whereof a large booke which in my youth I read in the pallace by the said Emperour was sent to Rome by certaine Bishops Nothing can be plainer then this testimonie against all the Replier hath said The like is written in p Ado chron an 792. Rog. Houed contin Bed an 792. Auent aun Boio p g 253. Aiâ—noin pa 450. Visperg pa. 187 Rhegin pag 30 many histories besides And after the death of Charles his sonne Lodowicke held a Councell at Paris which is extant about the same matter of Images wherein the decrees of Nice and the booke written by Adrian in defence thereof against the Councell of Frankford are againe condemned which shewes that the Councell of Frankford had done the same before Hincmarus q Vbi sup sayes By the authoritie of this Councell of Frankford the worship of Images was not a little suppressed but yet Adrian and other Bishops perseuering in their opinion and r Suarum pupparum cultum vehementius promouerunt promoting more vehemently the worship of their puppets after the death of Charles his sonne Lewis in a certaine booke inueyed farre more sharply against the worship of Images then Charles had done The Councell of Paris it selfe Å¿ Concil Paris pag. 19. Francfurt an 1596. in 8. sayes The Epistle of our Lord Adrian the Pope which he directed to Constantine and Irene for the setting vp of Images we made to be read before vs and as farre as we could perceiue as he iustly reprehends those which haue presumed to breake and abolish the images of Saints so himselfe is knowne to haue done indiscreetly in commanding them superstitiously to be worshipped For which cause also he assembled a Councell and by his authoritie decreed and that vnder an oath that they should be set vp and worshipped when it is lawfull indeed to erect them but vtterly vnlawfull to worship them The same Councell of Paris t Pag. 130. affirmes that it would haue hurt neither faith hope nor charitie if no image at all had bene painted or made throughout the world It is certaine therefore that the Councell of Nice was condemned by the Councels of Frankford and Paris both 5 But the Replier sayes All that is found touching this condemnation is but in a forged booke ascribed falsely to Charles This is vntrue twise ouer First because as I haue now shewed many others say it as well as the Booke of Charles Next I proued directly against Cope and the Iesuites that the booke is not forged and Bellarmine and Baronius confessing it to containe the Acts of Frankeford and the Councell condemned therein to be the second Nicene without all doubt testifieth so much It seemes that the pen-man was Albinus our countriman u Trithem de script in Alb. Sixt. Senen l. 4. Hittorp praef ad Lect. de diuin offic Rom. who was very great with Charles and his instructer in all kinde of learning and one of the famousest men in those times For thus writ w Annal. par 1. pag. 405. Roger Houeden and x Flor. hist pag. 215. Matthew Westminster Charles the king of Fraunce sent into England a booke of the Councell which was directed to him from Constantinople In which booke alas for griefe many things are found inconuenient and contrarie to the faith But especially that it was decreed by the consent of almost all the Easterne Doctors no lesse then three hundred or aboue this was the second Nicene Councell that images should be adored which the Church of God altogether abhorreth against which thing Albinus wrote an Epistle maruellously confirmed with the authoritie of the Scripture and in the name of the Bishops and Nobles brought the same with the booke to the King of France Albinus therefore it seemes penned it the Bishops and State approoued it and the Emperour ratified and published it This makes it of more authoritie then if the Emperour alone had done it But who penned it it is impertinent when Bellarmine and Baronius graunt it containes the acts of the Councell of Francford and no man may doubt but the Councell therein condemned is the second Nicene For this is enough to prooue the Nicene Councell to be condemned by the Councell of Frankford whosoeuer were the author of Charles his booke That which the Replier obiects touching the Constantinopolitane Councell named in stead of the Nicene helpes him not Bellarmine y De imag l. 21 c. 14. §. Neque obstat answers Constantinople is set downe in stead of Nice through vnskilfulnesse or want of memorie And z An. 794. n. 33. Baronius though he hold the councell of Constantinople that decreed images should be broken is meant there yet he grants the councell of Nice is meant and condemned also And it must needs be as Bellarmine sayes for though Constantinople be named yet it is added that there it was decreed that images should be worshipped which was not done in the Constantinopolitane but in the Nicene councell All which being put together the testimonies I meane whereby the booke is proued to be Charles his and the Councell meant to be the second Nicene it appeares plainly that the booke is authenticall and the author thereof both knew well enough what the Constantinopolitane and Frankford decreed and set downe the Canon neither by heare-say nor at aduenture nor yet by the imagination of his owne head but with good aduice and vpon certaine knowledge It being the vainest point of a thousand to imagine that Albine and the whole Cleargie of England France Germanie and Italie with the Nobilitie and States should condemne a thing which they vnderstood not and now after eight hundred yeares the true knowledge of all things should come by some reuelation belike to a few arrogant Iesuites who yet can agree in nothing about the same I admonish the Repliar by this example wherein he hath sped so vnluckily not to thinke to deface the truth with boldnesse and bragging but to giue way to the truth and in seeking it to tie himselfe to no mans deuice till he haue better assurance of it For there is scarce one example of antiquitie that we produce against them but his Iesuites are deuided in their answers and speake so contrary one to another that it is easie to see they intend nothing but to be obstinate and resolute And so the example of the second Nicene councell shewes that the Popes councels how generall or approoued soeuer haue erred in defining by the iudgement of the whole Christian world and their errors had beene controlled in former ages as well as the Protestants now controll them so that the things wherein
which must be acknowledged when tyrants and such as feare not God by their euill gouernement and neglect of religion many times darken the aire and hinder the raine and make the fields barren and riuers empty Pliny enquiring the reason why the fields adioyning to Rome in old time were so fruitfull saies It was because they were tilled by the chiefe gouernours such as Fabritius and Cincinnatus were Ipsorum tunc manibus Imperatorum colebantur agri gaudente terra vomere laureato triumphali aratore Which your Maiesty doing so painefully with your owne hands in a more noble field the Church of God all godly minded shall bid God speed the plow and daily waite till the briars and thornes be rooted out and the dew of Gods grace fall on the barren part that the Plowman may neuer be wearie nor his hand weake nor his workmen vnfaithful to him but all that are about him and his Noble seruants by his example may giue ouer sleeping and put their hand without looking backe to the same worke that the enuious man that soweth tares may be driuen forth and their owne houses may be the greenest and cleanest part of the field till he come that shall giue end and rest to euery labour and recompence beyond all that can be thought the workmans trauell and binding the good corne in sheaues cast the tares into vnquenchable fire God euermore continue and increase his mercies to your Highnesse and lay your enemies at your feete that you may see an end of all dissentions and stablish peace and vnity in the Church Your Maiesties most humble subiect IOHN WHITE To the Reader IT is now fiue yeares since I published a booke called THE WAY TO THE TRVE CHVRCH wherein my purpose was nothing else but onely to shew the weakenesse and insufficiency of those Motiues which leade so many to Papistrie and to bring to triall such reasons as the Iesuites and Seminaries ground themselues vpon in perswading their people against vs making it more then plaine that the corruptions of the Church of Rome are maintained and the communion of our Church in the doctrine preaching and the Sacraments thereof is refused by such as follow the Papacy vpon weake and false grounds that cannot be defended This poore booke it seemes hath not a little incensed my Aduersary and discontented many that yet should follow reason and the truth of things and not be transported with rumor and common impression For man being a noble creature endued with reason and faculty to discourse and hauing a rule left him of God whereby to examine things should not tie his faith and conscience to the authority or person of any more then the truth and the reason and euidence of that be saies will beare him out It was neuer heard of in the world till now of late yeares that the Pope and his definitions were the rule of faith or that men were bound to follow whatsoeuer he should appoint but the Church of God euery where till tyranny oppressed it examined his doctrine accepting and allowing that which agreed with the sacred Scriptures and the first antiquity and reiecting the rest and albeit many errors had long prescription yet the godly still held them to that rule of our Sauiour BVT FROM THE BEGINNING IT WAS NOT SO. Mat. 19.8 Our Aduersaries therefore may in some points possible pretend antiquitie but PRIORITIE which is the first and best antiquitie they cannot in any one thing wherein they refuse vs and whether the zealous and resolued Recusants will beleeue it or no yet it is certainely true there is no one point of Papistry Catholicke that is to say such as hath bene from the beginning generally receiued as an article of faith by the vniuersall Church And though it be granted that many parts of his religion haue long continued in the world yet were they neuer the certaine or generall doctrines of the Church but the corruptions of some therein which in time and by degrees obtained that strength and credit which now they haue it being the easiest thing of a thousand for the Pope and his clergie sitting at the sterne when themselues had once imbraced them with their strength and learning to giue them authority in the world when Mahomet himselfe by policy and tyrannie was able in time to spread abroad and a vniuersally the doctrine of his Alchoran which now is 800 yeare old and is followed by many and great nations as close as Papistrie is either in England or Italy But whē the Scripture makes it plaine that FROM THE BEGINNING IT WAS NOT SO and the Histories and monuments of antiquity and the bookes of the elder Papists and such as were chiefe in the Church of Rome beare witnesse that these things were misliked and in all ages complained of and that which the Church of England now professes was the faith of most godly men and holy Bishops though the power of the gouernors in the Church of Rome increasing they were suppresed they do but deceiue themselues that thinke our faith a new faith or the points of Papistrie the old religion I haue as well as I haue bene able and as diligently as I could with an vnpartiall eie and many teares to God for his direction in the businesse and with a heart hating contention and possessed as much as any mans liuing with desire of peace and vnity whereof my 17 yeares residence in Lancashire can giue plentifull witnesse read the Scriptures and trauelled through the writings of the Fathers and obserued the course of former times and well aduised my selfe of that which the learned of the Church of Rome in later times haue written from the elder Schoolemen to the later Iesuites though with all humility I acknowledge my selfe to be the meanest of any that haue taken this course and much lament my owne weaknesse yet am I readie whensoeuer God the Iudge of all secrets and the terrible reuenger of falsehood and partiality shall call me foorth of this world to testifie that my faith and religion and the points thereof maintained in my writings and preaching is the truth agreeable to the first antiquity and the contrary defended by the Iesuites and followed by Romish Recusants error and vncatholicke And if any persons presumed to be learned on the other side haue either in their life or death shewed extraordinary zeale for their Roman faith I desire I may be allowed my owne knowledge both of some such persons and of their iudgement and outward cariage and not be importuned to follow that which vnskilfull and vnable and partiall friends haue apprehended rather then my owne cleare knowledge both of them and their cause And if the Church of Rome haue in it diuers learned betweene whom and vs my Aduersaries will indure no comparison that write against vs yet my certaine experience of their manner of writing one against another and against knowne antiquitie and their strange maintenance of the foulest and
vnworthiest things that are and my knowledge of the meanes whereby and the ends whereto they are trained vp to this writing and my daily exercise in their bookes haue long since remooued from me all opinion of them and taught me that learning as beawty can play the baude and make them loue it that shall fall by it and inamoured of it that little know the danger of it Let the seuerall points of their faith which with that learning they maintaine be well vnderstood and considered for the most vnderstand them not and let the manner of their proceeding in that they defend be iudiciously looked into and it will easily appeare that learning and wit Gen. 38. like Thamar hath prostituted her selfe and sits in the highway and so she may haue children she will deceiue Iudah her owne father And when all learning and the ripest wits and holiest Diuines the Church of Rome hath are now wholly imploied in maintaining the Popes power ouer Princes absoluing subiects from their alleagiance excusing equiuocating and the POWDER-TREASON and making the actors Martyrs and dissoluing the very ioints and bands whereby the world and Christian society is holden together it is high time to let the authoritie of mens persons alone and looke another while into the reasons and causes they maintaine and when they haue found the truth to cease from contending and labour by obedience and submission therunto to bring glory to God that our tongues may professe and our liues glorifie his heauenly Maiestie Hauing therefore written in my former booke to this effect and plainely shewed all this and much more that my countreymen and the people of our nation if they pleased might see the triall of things it is fallen out that the Romish side findes it selfe in an extraordinary manner touched therewith after many rumors vowes to confute me at last about 18. monethes since I receaued this Reply which here thou seest And although I take no pleasure in contentious writings but as time shall shew if I continue my course and God giue meanes intend that which shall cleare the controuersies without contention yet when I had heard many reports of something that would be done with effect against me I was willing to giue satisfaction againe least the ignorant might be perswaded something was writtē indeed that could not be answered It is not vnlikely but others also for they haue more helps meanes and leasure then I haue as soone as they can be furnished wil be doing more may yet be written for so he sends me word that writ the last Triumph of Purgatory an Author that sure will ouerthrow the Chariot and lay all in the mire if he be set to driue it and so I haue bene often told and sent word and therefore if any shall chance to write in forme and without passion whereof this man is full and with modesty will say what he thinks speaking directly and home to that I haue said without declining or shrinking from the point that presses him that I may finde him an honest minded man and not a Mercurialist I will gratifie him againe with the same that he brings and freely reuoke and confesse any error that he shall shew to haue escaped me If I be otherwise dealt with that nothing be sought but the disgrace of my persō vndirect discrediting of my booke it is likely that I shall take my resolution from the circumstances of my aduersary when I see him and do as his booke against me shall deserue In the meane time be admonished of 4. things touching this Reply and my owne Defence First that whereas he hath in the same booke written against M. wootton a learned Diuine as well as me I meddle onely with that which concernes my selfe and therefore taking his booke before me I answer onely the passages that are against me Next all that I meddle with is set downe verbatim as it lies and the number of his page in the margent ouer against his text Then I haue in this sort gone through his whole booke til within a little of the end which containing no new matter but the same that I had occasion to answer diuers times afore I would lose no time about it Fourthly I haue answered fully and directly to euery word he saieth by which diligence I haue benefited the Reader so much that howsoeuer my Aduersary may seeme meane and vnworthy confuting yet he shall not lose his labour in reading but finde my paines bestowed profitably vpon him such as he is who yet to giue him his due though he raile hard and vnciuilly and write an obscure and vnpleasing stile hath replied with all the best and sutablest arguments he could finde in Stapleton Bellarmine and Valentia touching the points depending and onely failes in replying to that which I had answered before Hereafter let me intreate the good and courteous Reader if he will vouchsafe to vse my writings not to iudge of them but by his owne triall and examination For they haue secretly to their wel-willers laid imputations vpon them who being surprised with conceit are afraid to make the triall or to meete the truth The quotations for example or Authors alledged may be challenged reported to be false yet this Reply hath charged but onely one in all his booke and they which haue bene lowdest and earnestest may finde in such a multitude possible some to proue that the diligentest writer may be ouerseene but the substance they cannot discredit If I haue erred in any thing or mistaken an Author I acknowledge my selfe to be a man that may erre and I humbly submit what I haue done not onely to the Church wherein I liue but to euery moderate and peaceable minded man therein yea I will with all respect of his person heare and aduise of any thing that an aduersary shall informe me of if he will hold the rules of Christian truth and charity and go forward with me in that course to seeke the truth which all men see euermore to be lost where words and wrangling giue the sound And I intreate euen those that cleaue most to the Church of Rome to perswade themselues that whatsoeuer I haue written is for their sakes that if it were possible they might discerne the truth offered them and the wickednesse of the Iesuites that leade them I maligne no mans person I hate none that is among them but being called to be a Preacher of the Gospell I am desirous to bestow my spare houres in maintenance of that I preach and for the which I were ready to sacrifice my life much more to bestow my time and trauell that if it might so please God we might be all as one and the state and gouernement wherein we liue be no longer tossed and intangled with our disagreements They cannot but see that God by establishing the Kings throne and blessing it against the malice vnnatural practises of their Church giues testimony on our
worship of images and the distinctions whereby the same is maintained are examined And our aduersaries finally conuicted of giuing Gods honor to their images The ancient Church was against image worship Chap. 54. The Popes supremacy was not in the ancient Church neither is it acknowledged at this day by many Papists Nunne Brigets speech touching the Pope And Cyrils riddle Chap. 55. The Communion in ancient time was ministred to the people in both kinds An innouation in this point in the Church of Rome The pretences vsed against the Cup. Chap. 56. Touching Transubstantiation It was made an article of faith by the Lateran Councell 1200 yeares after Christ How it came in by degrees The Fathers neuer beleeued nor knew it Chap. 57. Touching the first coming in of errors into the Church with the Persons Time and Place Purgatory and pardons not knowne in the ancient Church nor in the Greeke Church to this day The true reason why the ancient prayed for the dead Chap. 58. The Popes supremacy Single life of Votaries The worship of images The merite of workes The sacrifice of the Masse And the Popish doctrine touching originall sinne all of them innouations The disagreement of Papists in their religion And namely in their doctrine of originall sinne Chap. 59. Obiections against the outward succession of the Pope Touching Peters being at Rome His Pastorall office what it was Whether there be any diuine authoritie for the Popes succession Not certaine what Popes haue succeeded one another Vacancies diuers times in the Sea of Rome The storie of the woman Pope of what credite The Pope hath bene an heriticke and erred è Cathedra The Pope succeeds by Simonie and violence Such succession is a nullitie by his owne law The Pharisees in Moses chaire how A. D. defends the succession of an ASSE Many Popes at once Vrbanus his crueltie towards the Cardinals What the Protestants say touching the succession of the Church of Rome Good Reader in the printing of this Booke some faults are committed some whereof are not great but the rest noted with this marke * concerne the sence or reading more materially The marginall quotations some excepted I could not correct but hope they are reasonable perfect Correct them as followeth The first number signifieth the page the second the line Page 3. line 26. shreene skreene 8. 12 it is good it is a good 11 25. downe downe 14. 11. vse vseth 16.14 Lonel Louel 20 11.* her mot er our mother * and it was when it was 24 19. Cuyckins Cuyckius 34 5 * the king Now may the king how may 15. * possible impossible 36.5 not so much not much 38 11.* seauenth second 45. 26. Anard Ruard 60. 2 * of minde of winde 71. 3 ingeniously ingenuously 80. 27 * serueth seemeth 81 16. * against him his against his 86. 26. compiled fraud fraud compiled 94. 35. * see see 103. 13. Sato Soto 105. 15 * vncerten And vncerten and 106. 11. please pleaseth 109. 1. * to heauen to haue 112.28 the like the life 113 5 * in cause in state 116 1 * charging Chargeth 138. 9 * one promise on praemis 145. 20. none now 14â— 10. * Casenists Casuists 148. 10. this a poore this poore 14 and them put it forth 34. to beleeue not to beleeue 156. 27. contriued contained 157.30 yeed yeeld 174 4 * in themselues in the Scripture 180. 35. * visible inuisible 181 14.* inuisible members inuisible the members 188. â—6 answer for answer For. 192. 23. that which the which 194. 11 Henriquex Henriquez 199. 33. * Eusebius Justine Martyr 200. 20. daughter sonne 213 9 * this of God this will of God 12. as they call such as they call 226. 21. or* his purp for his purp 228. 5. none noe 229. 18. * no mans one mans 230 2. by othes by others 12 * the works euâ—â— the sinne euen of corrupt masse was not but was 238. 29. * deliberate not deliberate 245. 34. * the cause since the conscience 259. 29. * He replies sec he replies Secondly 264. 23. saies it ouer saith it ouer and ouer 265. 25. or translation of translation 275. 28. * motion notion 286. 31. lastly put it out and set the figure 7 that followes there 287. 16. conceiued conteined 21. dives diuerse 299. 1. * what heresies what he replies 304. 35. * in the fourth proposition in fower propositions 311. 3 is is it is it 315. 9. * first and last hiest and last 318. 12. RIGHR RIGHT 319. 26. may do can do 335. 16 knownes not knowes not 341. 20. we might impart we impart 367. 32. * vniuersall vniuocall 368. 7 manner matter 373. 21. held in the substance nor held the substance 381. 37. euer by euen by 403. 18. them them that them that 414. 30 * yet many yet the maine 437.9 Nanâ—us Nonnus 448. 26. Councell Councels 460. 15. had bene haue bene 471. 24. * as the profite all the profite 485. 18. * Then I haue Thus J haue 450. 8. And expounds how and he expounds how 505. 6. not with not onely with 504. 23. * to any other to â—â—â—ther 511. 31. * be reuolued be renewed 513. 33. * shewed them thawed them 527. 17. that contrary the contrary 529. 4. * Againe whether Againe whereas 532 1.* that it is sinne some that it is sinne 11. That it some that it 13. That it some that it 544 4 * alleadged alleadging 29. VNLERA VNLEAR In the Margent I obserued by the way Pag. â—7 letter c c. 52. Ch. 53. 23. r orthodonograph orthodoxagraph 24. * see c. 53. see Ch. 52. 38. r Sano Saxon. 67. c. Chap. 35. 1 Ch. 34. 1. 35. â— 77. â— * Ch. 54. Ch. 53. 95. d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 108. u put forth the whole quotation ** 113. d Abulens parad l. 34. Abul parad l. c. 34. 121. * came to come to * 133. line 15. action occasion * 148. * cap. 35. and 36. chap. 34. and 35. * 158 * cap. 28.3 chap. 27. 3. * 194. * see vers see Gerson 261. e Philocrat Philostrat 280. i noted afore noted afore pag. 62 in the marg 528. â— Abul in Sent. Abul in Deuteron THE WAY TO THE TRVE CHVRCH defended against A.D. his Reply CHAP. 1. 1. The title of A.D. his reply A wonder not farre from Rome 2. Writers not putting their names to their bookes censured by the Iesuites The Popes iester 3. The name of Minister and Priest 4. Church the pillar of truth 5. The way of Catholick discipline is the way of the Scripture 6. The Iesuits Method in perswading to Papistrie 7. The maner of A.D. his replying and his promise to raile THis A.D. hauing taken my booke into his correction intitles what he hath written against it A REPLY made vnto M. Anthonie Wootton and M. Iohn White MINISTERS wherein it is shewed that they haue not sufficiently answered the TREATISE OF FAITH and wherein also the truth of the chiefe points of the said TREATISE is
make them pale for feare and therefore he would affixe it though I for my part will thinke he doe it not so much to terrifie vs as to gull his owne with the name of the Church If he had in any good fashion defended the exposition and application he made of it k THE WAY § 15. Reply pag. 223 in his Treatise he might haue vsed it the better and it would haue made vs the more afraid but hauing left it in the lash where I answered it he is not worthy so faire a text should come vnder his title Neuerthelesse there is good vse to be made of it against himselfe For if the Church be the pillar of truth and the Papacie which he striues for in his Reply be the pillar of lies then it will follow the Papacie is not the Church The first proposition is his text The second neither his Reply nor Treatise can put by The conclusion therefore is the truth And so the Text may keep his place to good purpose 5 On the backside of the same page hee hath placed in Latin and English this sentence of Saint Austin de vtil cred c. 8. If thou seeme to thy selfe to be sufficiently tossed to wit in doubts questions or controuersies of faith and wouldest make an end of these labours follow the way of the Catholicke discipline which did proceed from Christ himselfe by the Apostles euen vnto vs and from hence shall be deriued to posteritie I guesse his minde was to allude to the title of my booke which I called THE WAY and because therein I defend the way of the Scripture followed by the vniuersall Church which he likes not therefore he brings S. Austin reuoking vs to the way of Catholicke discipline This man sure hath a strange apprehension * Denique addimus Ecclesiam quae nunc Pontifici Romano obtemperat ture ac merito Catholicae nomen sibi vendicare eademque ratio ne fidem eius Catholicam esse censendam appellandam Suar. de fens si◠Cathol aduers Anglic. sect err l. 1. c. 12. nu 9. to thinke that wheresoeuer the Fathers vse the word Catholicke they vnderstand thereby this New-Roman-Catholicke and when they speake of Catholicke discipline they vnderstand his Church proposition determined by the Pope when they affirme nothing else but the doctrine contained and written in the Scriptures to be Catholicke and the discipline whereby men are directed both in faith and manners So S. Austin expounds himselfe l Cap. 6. in the same place Beleeue me whatsoeuer is in those SCRIPTVRES is loftie and diuine THERE is altogether IN THEM the truth and discipline most accommodate for the renewing and repairing of our mindes and so qualified that there is NO MAN BVT FROM THENCE HE MAY DRAW THAT WHICH IS SVFFICIENT for him if to the drawing he come deuoutly and godly as true religion requires So also Theophilus Alexandrinus m Epist 1. Pas chal pag. 377. cals the medicines taken out of the holy Scriptures for the curing of heresies the ecclesiasticall discipline The WAY to the Church therefore and S. Austins WAY of Catholicke discipline are both one because they both are the way of the Scripture and that sufficient and easie way which the simplest that is may finde though the Pope with his authoritie and traditions intermeddle not and he that will seeke the Catholicke discipline by Saint Austins consent must do it in the SCRIPTVRE which I doubt will not greatly please this Iesuite who hath spent all his time in groping for it about the Popes stoole he being the man when all is done that must determine this discipline and * Cum Pontisex definit Ecclesia per caput suum loquitur Suar. vbi sup c. 2◠nu 7. the mouth whereby their Catholicke Church must vtter and expound it 6 In the next page followes a Table of the contents of his booke and after that a short Preface to the Reader wherein first he commends his booke that I confuted and his Method vsed therein to bring men to resolution and then shewes how he was vrged by our writing against it to this Reply excusing himselfe for the plainesse of his stile and concluding with a grieuous complaint of our vnsincere dealing which he proceeds to shew in that which followes The Commendation that he giues his Method may not be denied for we allow Apes to hugge their yong ones and heretickes to conceit their owne deuices and I must confesse it is good round Method indeed for the purpose and profitable for them to be followed For if you will see it this it is Good Eue for your soules health I were readie to shed my best bloud and therefore haue ventured my life as you see vpon the entertainment you know of such as I find in the hiding roomes to bring you home to the Catholicke Church your Method is this Close vp your eies and examine nothing but obstinately renouncing the Protestants and stopping your eares against the Scriptures in all things beleeue vs who on my owne word are the Church of God and submitting your selfe to the direction of your ghostly father without more adoe be resolute and you shall easily be perswaded of our Roman faith This is a good sure Method to resolution and makes many resolute indeed and the Iesuite hauing found by experience how kindly it works with good natures had reason to commend it though in any indifferent iudgement it be a poore one as will appeare The rest of his Preface is trash come we to that which is materiall 7 After the Preface to shew my vnsincere dealing whereof he complaines he makes a title of examples of grosse vntruths gathered out of M Woottons and M. Whites bookes by which the discreete reader may see how little sinceritie or care of truth they haue had and consequently how little credit is to be giuen to their writings and hauing dispatched M. Wootton he comes to me with these words Now to come to M. White whose booke is said to do much more harme among the simple then M. Woottons doth I hope I shall lay open such foule want of sinceritie and care of truth in him as it will plainly appeare that those which shall hereafter take harme by giuing credence to his words or writings shall shew themseluis to be very simple indeed So that in all probabilie he should haue some great matter to shew that makes so large an offer and yet euery one of these examples will proue in the scanning so many testimonies of his owne weaknesse and immodesty when hauing had the book foure yeares in his hands and so many of his consorts to ioyne with him in replying all which time their rage against it and desire to discredit it and vowes to confute it appeared well enough yet now at the last can obiect no other examples of vntruth then these And that we may know he comes furnished he cals for a railing roome to brawle in
others and deuide their kingdomes and diuers other things q Nu. 14. p. 26. If the Pope say that such a gouernment tends to the detriment of spirituall health or that such a law cannot be obserued without mortall sinne or that it is contrary to the law of God or that it maintaines sinne then we must stand to the Popes iudgement forsomuch as the King hath nothing to do to iudge of spirituall things Simancha Pacensis r De Cath. inst tit 23. n. 11. p. 98. If Kings or other Christian Princes become heretickes forthwith their subiects and vassals are freed from their gouernment Å¿ Tit. 45. nu 25. pag. 209. If any Prince be vnprofitable or make vniust lawes against religion or against good manners or do any such like thing to the detriment of spirituall things the Pope obseruing due circumstances may apply a fit remedie euen by depriuing such a King of his gouernment and iurisdiction if the cause require it D. Nicolas Sanders t Visib monar pag. 70. It is moreouer to be supplied that albeit the King when he was first made were a Christian Catholicke yet if afterward he become an Apostata or hereticke true reason requires that he be remoued from his gouernment u Pag. 71. The matter is now brought to this passe that it is fit an hereticall King be remoued from his kingdome w De clau Dau pag. 25. If any be so rauenous that of a lambe he become a wolfe deuouring the flocke stealing slaying and scattering the sheepe which the Pope will say euery Protestant Prince doth if any thing betide this man otherwise then well let him thanke himselfe that voluntarily runnes vpon the sword of the Church Gregorie of Valence x Tom. 3. pag. 444 c. If the crime of heresie or apostacie from the faith be notorious that it cannot be couered then euen before the sentence of the Iudge the aforesaid punishment of being depriued from his dominion and authoritie ouer his subiects is in part incurred that is to say so farre that the subiects may lawfully denie obedience to such a hereticall Lord. Mariana a Iesuite y Instit reg pag. 61. It is a wholesome meditation for Princes to perswade themselues that if they oppresse the common-wealth and grow intollerable through their vices they liue vpon those termes that they may be killed not onely lawfully but with glorie and commendations z Pag. 64. All this pestilent and deadly broode thus he speakes of such Kings as he calls tyrants which are all Protestant Princes it is a glorious thing to roote out of the societie of men it is therefore confessed that a tyrant may be slaine either by open force and armes or by making assault vpon his pallace and if they that haue killed him escape they are honored all their life after as great personages but if it fall out otherwise they die a sacrifice gratefull to God and men a Pag. 65. No difference whether ye kill him with sword or poison When Tyrone rebelled in Ireland in the yeare 1602 the schoole Doctors of Salamanca sent the Papists there this determination b Refert quaest bipart in M.G. Blackw p. 156. That the Bishop of Rome might by armes restraine such as opposed the Catholike religion Tyrones warre against the Queene was iust and by authoritie from the Pope and all Catholickes were bound to further him in the same and so doing their merit and hope of eternall reward should be no lesse then if they had warred against the Turke But all Catholickes had sinned mortally that had serued the English against Tyrone neither should they obtaine saluation or be absolued by any priest from their sinnes vnlesse they repented and forsooke the campe of the English The same thing was also to be deemed of such as in that warre had holpen the English with armes and munition or payed them the accustomed subsidies But such as were in Tyrones campe in no case were traitors nor had denied any due obedience or vniustly occupied the Queenes lands but rather had endeuoured themselues to set at libertie themselues and their countrey being oppressed with vniust and impious tyrannie and to their power defended the orthodoxe faith as Christians and Catholickes ought to do This was the resolution of the Popes Vniuersitie in Portugall for the confirmation of as vile and detestable a rebellion as euer any was The like was done in Desmonds rebellion D. Sanders being sent into Ireland to resolue and encourage the traitors * Quem virum magno lâ—teraruÌ„ incommodo dolenius defuâ—ctum non multo post in Hibernia duÌ„ in eam insulam veram religioneÌ„ restituere contendit Ioh Marian tract pro edit vulg c. 7. sub fin pag. 56. among whom by the iust iudgement of God he died in extremitie and misery In the yeare 1588 c Meteran Belgic hist l. 15. p. 473. when the Spanish fleete should inuade our nation for the promoting of that desseigne D. Allen was made a Cardinall and sent into Flanders with the whole administration of the English affaires committed to him by the Pope who among other his practises had the Popes declaration printed in English that should be published vpon the arriuall of the Fleete in which declaration the sentence of excommunication against the Queene was confirmed and she depriued of her kingdome honour and dignities and all men commanded to receiue the Prince of Parma The writings of this Allen Parsons Sanders and Creswell their Doleman Philopater and Rossaeus a booke canonized by the Pope in consistorie are so scandalous this way that I abhor to report the things they write Bellarmine hath taken vpoÌ„ him to be the principal patron of this doctrine in maintâ—nance thereof hath published diuers treatises There was neuer any d And there was a wicked man named Sheba the son of Bicri a man of Iemini and he blew the trumpet and said We haue no part in Dauid nor inheritance in the son of Ishai euery man to his tents ô Israel 2. Sam. 20.1 Sheba blew the truÌ„pet of rebellioÌ„ as he hath done His assertions are these e De Pont. l. 5. c. 6. The Pope as chiefe spirituall Prince may change kingdomes and take them away from one to giue to another if it be necessary for the sauing of soules as we wil proue It is a good rule that the Glosse giues when the Imperiall and Pontificiall lawes touching the same thing are found to be contrary if the matter of the law be a thing belonging to the danger of soules then the Imperiall law is abrogated by the Pontificiall f Cap. 7. If the Christians in times past deposed not Nero Dioclesian and Iulian and Valens the Arrian and such like that was because they wanted temporall strength For that they might lawfully haue done it appeares by the Apostle Besides to tolerate a King that is an hereticke or an vnbeleeuer labouring to draw men
to his sect is to expose religion to euident danger but Christians are not bound nor may with the euident danger of religion tolerate an vnbeleeuing King When Kings and Princes become heretickes or hinder religion they may be iudged by the Church and be deposed from the gouernement neither is there any wrong done them if they be deposed If any Prince of a sheepe become a wolfe that is to say of a Christian become an hereticke the pastor of the Church by excommunication may driue him away and withall commaund the people that they follow him not and so depriue him of his dominion ouer his subiects g Cap. 8. § Praeterea cogere Any Bishop whatsoeuer much more the Prince of Bishops may exercise temporall power ouer them that haue receiued temporall power ouer other h Tract de potest sum Pont. adv Gul. Barcl pag. 97. When the Pope sees a Christian Prince infected with heresie by the sentence of excommunication he separates him from the companie of the godly and least he infect others he absolues his subiects from the oath of their alleagiance and if need so require he commaunds them vnder the paine of the same excommunication that they neither reckon of him nor obey him as their King i An. â—089 n. 11. Caesar Baronius alledges and commends out of Ivo a Breue of Pope Vrbane the second wherein it is pronounced that they are no homicides who kill such as are excommunicate For we do not iudge them to be murderers who burning with the zeale of their Catholicke Mother against such as are excommunicate happen to haue killed any of them Gregorie 7 commonly called Pope Hildebrand k Baro. an 1076 n. 32. Gregor 7. epist l. 2. ep 55. set downe these among the Popes priuiledges that the Pope may vse the armes of the Empire that Princes must kisse his feete that it is lawfull for him to depose Emperors that he is no Catholicke man nor so to be accounted that agrees not with the Church of Rome that he may absolue subiects from their fidelitie to the wicked Suarez the Iesuite in his l Def sid Cath. adu Angl. sect erro l. 6. c. 4. nu 18. late booke against the King writes thus It is to be said that after the sentence condemnatorie is giuen against the King by lawfull authoritie touching the depriuing him of his kingdome or which is all one when by sentence his crime is declared to be such as by the law hath such a penaltie imposed then he that hath pronounced the sentence or he to whom it is committed may depriue the King of his kingdome euen by killing him if either he cannot otherwise do it or if the sentence be iustly extended to this punishment If the Pope depose the King yet he may not be killed or expelled but by those onely to whom he shall commit the doing thereof but if he commit the execution to no bodie then it belongs to him that is lawfull successor of the kingdome or if there be no successor it shall appertaine to the kingdome it selfe and therefore as I said onely his lawfull successor if he be a Catholicke hath that authoritie to kill or depose him or if he neglect it or there be no successor then the communitie of the kingdome so that it be Catholicke succeeds in that right thus to kill or expell him Let the Reader here note not onely that the Pope and his Church teach and command the murder of Gods annointed Kings which any heart not stupified with Atheisme and reprobate sence would tremble at but appropriate the doing thereof to Papists alone challenging the right of committing so execrable wickednesse to appertaine to none but Romish Catholickes and disdaining that any should haue a hand in doing this execrable mischiefe against the King but onely a follower of the Popes religion This is the doctrine that I mentioned and meant when I said their religion was full of doctrine teaching conspiracie against the State stirring subiects vp to treason and rebellion For when m Rex autem Jacobus vt in libro primo probauimus a crimine infidelitatis sâ—u haeresis apostasiae excusari non potest Suar. ibid. c 6. nu 10. the King by reason of his religion is made an heretick and reputed a persecutor of the Church and disobedient to the Pope and the Pope not onely hath power but is also bound by his place to excommunicate depriue and depose such and to absolue the subiects from their obedience to them yea howsoeuer to rid the world of them as of tyrants it being the dutie of all and that vnder paine of damnation and as they will be counted good Catholickes to obey the Pope in all things against the King Now may any Papist warrant his religion from the imputation and what securitie can he giue to the State what pawne to his Soueraigne for his loyaltie that the King and his State may be certen he will neuer practise or stirre against them For if the Pope by right may do all this and he beleeue as his religion teaches that he is bound in all things to obey the Pope as the supreme Pastor of his soule and monarch of the world he must whensoeuer occasion shall be offered do his vttermost to fubuert the present State and to plant the Popes religion and iurisdiction I will suffer my selfe per possibile to be perswaded that many Recusants and some Masse-priests loue the King and are true hearted to the State and wil neuer consent to trechery but this is that I say they cannot do this out of the principles of their owne religion which teaches them to obey the Pope against all the world or if they say the Pope erres and his Diuines speake vntruly in these points what infallible assurance can they haue that they erre not and misleade them not in the rest of their religion Let it be well and seriously considered if it be not possible that they which vniustly and erroniously condemne the oath of alleagiance do as erroniously condemne the faith which by that oath they say is ratified They shall giue me leaue to thinke for my part that as his Maiestie by the confession of so many Papists holds the truth against the Pope in the matter of the oath so he holds the same truth against him in the matter of his faith and they that deceiue the Papists in forbidding them to take the oath deceiue them no lesse in forbidding them to come to Church and communicate with our religion 3 The Popes practise hath bene answerable to his doctrine in regard whereof I said as I did that he and his clergie were no better then so many Beares and Tygars the fatall enemies of Princes and their people to sucke their bloud The which because the Reply outfaces with passion I will demonstrate by examples and then let the Reader iudge if euer any sauage Beare or Tygar filled his den with the
de VeroÌ„ apolog pro Ioh. Castell a booke written by a Papist in defence of him that did this wherein his deed is not onely iustified but extolled u Pag 40. as a most noble deed ioyned with vertue and heroicall to be compared with the greatest and commendablest deeds that euer were done or are mentioned in any storie Afterward as we all know this noble Prince was miserably slaine by a popish miscreant HENRIE the 8. of England was w Sand. de scis Anglic. â— â—8 excommunicate by Pope Clement about the matter of his diuorce x See Guâ—cciar l. 19. pag. 891. which in his owne iudgement he thought to be lawfull GEORGE the King of Bohemia y Bonfin deca 4. l. 2. sab init Mart. Crom. rerum Polo pag. 776 was excommunicate by Pius the second and Matthias the King of Hungary armed against him IOHN the King of Nauarre z Plat. in Iul. 2. was bereft of halfe his kingdome by the practise of Iulius the second a Bin. vit Iul. 2. who was wont to say It was not fit the Leuites should serue others who ought to beare rule ouer others The VENETIANS lastly b See Botter comment l. 12. p. 267. inde Gallo Belgie an 16â—6 about the maintenance of their State against the Cleargie were excommunicate by the Pope that now is saue that he shrunke in the wetting and durst not go forward For c Papit Masson annal Franc. pag. 289. since the time that Popes haue bene so prodigall of their curses they haue lost their sting and no maruell for rare things are admired when that which is daily done is contemned QVEENE ELIZABETH of most happie memory since the tenth yeare of her raigne d See Sand. schism Angl. pag. 182. about which time Pius Quintus excommunicated her till her dying day was neuer free from their malice e See the answers that the priests in the Tower made in their examinatioÌ„s an 1582. Maij 13. as they are set downe in Concert ecc Cathol in Angl adu Caluinop pag. 241. ind the Popes and their Cleargie by treasons inuasions rebellions conspiracies infamous writings and all the furie that the diuell could suggest assailing her the whole declaration whereof would fill large volumes And now finally HIS MAIESTIE that is succeeds her in the tasting of the same and worse practises wherein the Iesuites and Masse-priests haue bene the Popes principall executioners f Breuia Pont. the defence thereof by Bellarm. Less Coquae Capel Sticiop Suar. Becan Eudaem and others his alleagiance refused the Popes omnipotencie maintained his Person disgraced reuiled conspired against the Powder-treason plotted by these men Yet there is an old prophesie in * Telesphor de tribulat pag. 31. Antichristus non poterit subiugare Venetias nec Parisios nec Ciuitatem regalem Angliae Telesphorus that Antichrist shall neuer preuaile against these cities Venice Paris and London 4 Here are vpon 40 instances giuen in iustification of that I said now the Reader may iudge as he please In answer whereof my aduersaries will pleade a right the Pope and his Cleargie had to do all this but the fact it selfe they will not denie And as all States in the world know his right to be none so g Parisienses de eccl polit potest Blackw Widdringt Barkly the Diuines of Venice yea many large bookes written against it by great Diuines old and new in the Church of Rome Many whereof may be seene printed together by Goldastus in the three tomes of his Monarchia not a few disdaine it in the Church of Rome it selfe CHAP. VII Concerning the doctrine of Merits taught in the Church of Rome and touching the Bull of Pius and Gregorie against Michael Baius the Deane of Louane A. D. To passe therefore from this his epistle Dedicatorie Pag. 26. to his Preface to the Reader § 1. he falsely chargeth the Church of Rome to hold doctrine which it doth not hold but expresly condemne Concerning merit of workes saith he it holdeth that when men hauing conuersed godlily and righteously in this mortall life to the end obtaine eternall life this is not to be deputed to the purpose of Gods grace but to the ordinance of nature appointed presently in the beginning when man was created neither in this retribution of good things is it looked to the merit of Christ but onely to the first institution of mankind wherein by a naturall law it was set downe that by the iust iudgement of God the keeping of Gods commandements should be rewarded with life as the breaking of them is with death Thus farre is M. Whites relation But how false this relation is may appeare not onely in that the contrarie doctrine is ordinarily taught by our Diuines as may be seene in Halensis 3. part 9.69 mem 5. art 3.5 D. Thom. 1.2 q. 109. art 9. Roffensis refut art 36 Tapper de lib. arbit Bellarmine l. 5. de Iustif c. 12. 14. 15. and others Conc. Trid. Sess 6. c 16. Wherunto may be added the Councell of Trent sess 6. c. 16. where it is expresly defined that to those that worke well vnto the end and put their hope in God life euerlasting is to be propounded both as a Grace note the word Grace mercifully promised to the children of God through Iesus Christ and as a hire faithfully to be giuen to their good workes and merits by the promise of God himselfe By which definition of the Councell we may learne that by our doctrine life euerlasting is not obtained by nature but springeth of Gods grace and mercie and the merit of our Sauiour Christ And although our good workes doe merit yet it is not our workes as done by nature but as done in and by the grace of Christ as is further declared by the said Councell which saith that Christ Iesus doth as the head into all the members and as the vine into the branches continually infuse vertue to those that be iustified Ibidem The Church-vertue doth alwayes go before accompanie and follow their good workes without which vertue these their workes could not by any meanes be gratefull to God and meritorious This loe is the doctrine of our Church and not that temerarious and hereticall proposition which M. White relateth out of one Michael Baio who is so farre from being an approued author sufficient to declare what is the doctrine of our Church as that he is disallowed and this his proposition expresly condemned by Pius Quintus who was in his time chiefe Pastor of our Church 1 IN the fifth place he accuses me for charging the Church of Rome with that which one Michael Baius a popish Doctor and the Kings professor at Louane writ touching merits But I answer three things First that I know no reason why their Church may not be charged with that which Baius writ as well as ours is charged with this and that which any
Protestant writes For a This made the Protestants Apologie so often quoted in A. D his Reply swell so big a few priuate and doubtfull places are culled out of the writings of our men and obiected to the whole body of our Church by our aduersaries as our doctrine But the Iesuite writing in his b THE WAY §. 6. Treatise that all Catholicke learned men acknowledge the Popes definitiue sentence and submit their iudgement thereunto who would thinke that Baius so learned a man should maintaine any thing against that which the Pope allowes specially being one of those that were at the Councell of Trent and knew the mind thereof and printed his booke three yeares after Secondly when I writ I had Baius c De merit op printed at Louan by John Bogard an 1565. in 8. his booke by me and knew nothing but I might alledge it he was a popish Doctor and the Kings publicke Reader and Deane of the Vniuersitie of â—ouan one that was a principall Diuine of the Trent Councell but three yeares before his booke priuiledged by the King of Spaine and no where in all the Indices that I haue seene either forbidden to be read or commanded to be purged as those bookes are which the Church of Rome mislikes in good earnest I answer thirdly that what I alledged out of Baius is the doctrine of the Church of Rome and the Iesuites this I will proue and then answer the Iesuites arguments to the contrary 2 First I say that the Church of Rome holds whatsoeuer I alledged out of Baius For I gathered no more out of his words but that the saluation of our soules is expected for the merit of workes and not to be ascribed to the merit of Christ onely This is the current doctrine of Rome contained in the words of the Trent Councell alledged by the Reply to go no further Next Michael Baius words considered in themselues as they sound containe the doctrine of the Church of Rome for any thing that the Iesuite can shew to the contrary And if it be obiected that other Papists write otherwise and confute him I care not for that for they write at this day one against another in euery point of their faith and agree in nothing in the questions of Predestination the concourse of Gods helpe with inferiour causes Praedeterminations the Popes primacie taking the oath of allegiance worship of Images Free-will Transubstantiation Antichrist Latin seruice and yet all the Iesuites liuing cannot proue this to be their Churches doctrine rather then that And therefore as touching his aduersaries that deale against him Baius his opinion may be the Trent opinion as well as theirs nay better for he was there present when the doctrine of merits was concluded and agreed vpon and his booke alledges the Councell on his side 3 But I will shew that the words of Baius affirme no more then other Papists maintaine They containe onely three propositions First that our works merit This propositioÌ„ they all hold as the Iesuite will confesse and it is enough to euacuate the merit of Christ and translate it to our selues and so consequently to damne him that holds it because by merit is meant such a worthinesse in the worke as of it owne nature by the way of d Dico Deum reddendo vitam aeternam seruare iustitiam commutatiuam Pezant 1.2 q. 114. pag. 468. Dicendum est in Deo esse proprium attributum iustitiae habens quandam conuenientiam formalem â—isi analogam cum iustitia commutatiua creata raetione cuius propria for malis iustitia commutatius dici potest licet à rigore huius iustitiae prout est in creaturis aliquando discrepat differat in obiecto formali suo Atque hanc iustitiam maximo Deus exercet in retribuendis praemijs meâ—â—â— rum vel condignis satisfactionibus acceptandis Suar. opusc disp de iustit Dei sect 2. n 27. COMMVTATIVE IVSTICE deserues eternall life And it is no matter though they will answer that the Grace of God makes vs able to do these workes for so much Baius also sayes for himselfe but the point is that if eternall life be giuen properly by an act of commutatiue iustice to my worke done by what Grace soeuer then saluation is neither the sole nor proper effect of Christs death The second proposition contained in Baius words is that Christ onely made vs able to do good workes but such workes being done then the reward is giuen not for the merit of Christ but for the condignitie of the worke This is holden by others Vasquez e 12. q. 114 disp 222. n. 30 pag. 917. sayes When the workes of a iust man condignely merit eternall life as the wages and reward that is equall to them there is no need that the condigne merit of another such as the merit of Christ is come betweene that vnto them should be rendred eternall life for the merit of euery iust man in respect of the man himselfe hath some thing peculiar which the merit of Christ hath not namely to make the man himselfe iust and worthy eternall life that he may worthily obtaine the same but the merit of Christ albeit most worthy to obtaine eternall life for vs of God yet hath not this efficacie and vertue to make vs formally iust and worthy eternall life but men by vertue deriued from him attaine this effect in themselues This doctrine allowes saluation and blessednes to vs in the same maner that God in the couenant of works rendred it to Adam or to the Angels for f Ipsa igitur Gratia etiam homini reparando fuit necessaria quia non alia stantem Angelum à ruina potuit custodire nisi illa qua lapsum hominem post ruinam potuit reparare Vna est in vtroque Gratia operata in hoc vt surgeret in illo ne caderet in illo ne vulneretur in flo vt sâ—naretur ab hoc infirmitatem repulit illum infirmari non sinit illius esca istius medicina Fulgent ad Trasim l 2. pag. 269. Adam ante lapsum non fuit per vtres suas naturales praecisè etiam cum Dei generali influentia sufficiens ad igendum aliquem actum moraliter bonum seu vere virtuosunt quinimo vltra praedicta fuit sibi necessarium aliud Dei auxilium speciale Gregor Arim. 2. d. 29. q. 1 concl 2. pag. 107. See Mag. 2. d. 29. Ibi Tho. Argent art 3. Dur. qu. 1. Capreol qu. 1. concl 3. 4. Suar. tom 1. disp 42. sect 1. §. Dico tamen they also had the grace of God to enable them to worke as we haue the merits of Christ but that grace went no further The third proposition contained in Baius words is that good workes haue the reward of eternall life due vnto them not of grace but of their owne nature because God in the beginning by the law of nature appointed the reward to be
Popes Supremacie e Hom. 49. in op imperf Paris in 8. an 1557 See Bellar. de verb. Dei l. 4. c. 11. §. Sexto profert Posseu appar to 1. pag. 847. Chrysostome where he iustifies the Scriptures f Ind. expurg Hisp pag. 18. Gregorie Nyssen where he speakes against the worship of creatures Why do you g Iâ—d ex purg Belg. pag. 12. professe that in the old Catholicke writers you beare with many errors and when in disputation they are opposed against you you extenuate and excuse them and many times by deuising a shift denie them and feine some fit sence vnto them Why do you take order that h Posseu biblio select l. 1. c. 48. pag. 38. in the publicke Libraries of Princes and others euery one shall not see the manuscripts Greeke Latin or any other which are not permitted by the Church because these also must be purged What is the meaning of that speech which i Apparat. verb Anton. Florent Posseuine the Iesuite vses of Antoninus and his writings that he now enioying the blessed light of heauen no doubt desires that all his writings should be reviewed and occupied purer then of old they were Say now and dissemble not is it not a violent presumption that the Fathers are cleare for Protestants when Papists thus purge and censure their writings in such things as are in controuersie betweene vs and are they not resolued in this damned course of purging bookes when they thinke the authors in heauen reioyce to see their workes hereby made purer Verily Erasmus k Ep. ad Card. Mogunt said that many things are condemned in Luthers bookes as hereticall which in Austin and Bernard are read for good Diuinitie And our contentment is that daily experience shewes this to be true l Ph. Camerar medit hist to 2. pag. 39. Macro l. â— c. 8. They write how the Romanes at the siege of Carthage according to their maner first coniured the Dij tutelares out of it afore they proceeded Be thou a God he or she that protectest the people or citie of Carthage but specially thee the Patron thereof I worship thee first and then intreate thee to abandon Carthage the citie the places the temples euery thing thereof and to come away to vs and ours and dwell in our citie our places our temples and be our Patrons So do we vow you playes and sacrifices Thus play our aduersaries in printing the bookes of the ancient Fathers and Schoole-men If thou be a God or a Goddesse come forth if a doctrine or a period that protectest the Church of the Protestants come away we intreate thee forth of the Text forth of the Table forth of the Margent into our Indices expurgatorij and we vow to sacrifice you in the fire A D. Againe that Protestants haue done nothing against the Church of Rome but innumerable people in all ages wished it long ago 7 I said another thing immediatly before this that the Iesuite skips We haue the mercies of God to pleade for vs whereby our Church hath bin miraculously vpholden When they threatned God defended vs when they practised and expected our ruine God disappointed them when they wrought all manner of treasons yet God deliuered vs. The conscience of his owne guilt and the enuie of our well-doing would not let him mention this yet here againe I commend it to him that by considering the behauiour of his side towards vs he may the better discerne what they are And to that he hath obserued I answer that I shewed the truth thereof in the same place by the example of Gerson and testimony of Nauclere which the Iesuite dissembles because his occupation is not to obserue the grounds of my speeches but to raile me downe yet the m Reformationê autem generaleÌ„ ecclesiae extremè necessariam fore nostru temporibus mores corrupit totius orbis praenuntiant cum reuera penè omnis caro corrupit viam suaÌ„ Iac. de Parady Collect. de sept stat eccl willingnesse to accept reformation and the ioy of all nations when it came and the detestations they shewed of the Romish tyrannie that had oppressed them shewes I said the truth And if I had to do with an aduersary of any worth or that were fit for a discourse or saw it otherwise needfull to satisfie others I would in confirmation hereof repeate my words that I then vsed What ceremonie what doctrine what custome what one parcell of their superstition haue we refused but the world long since complained of it The tyrannie and oppression of old Babylon was neuer so complained of I will onely mention the speech of Gerson that was Chancellour of Paris almost a hundred yeares before Luther whose bookes from the beginning to the end containe almost nothing but complaints of the Churches state he n Tom. 1. pag. 241. E. sayes Let experience answer what hurt what danger what confusion the contempt of the sacred Scripture which yet is sufficient for the gouernment of the Church vnlesse Christ were an vnperfect law-giuer hath brought let the Cleargie be viewed which should haue married heauenly wisedome which is peaceable and chaste if it haue not committed fornication with that adulterous harlot earthly humane and diabolicall wisedome The state of the Church also is it not all become as it were brutish and monstrous That many doubt not to consult that this state of the Church were better to be gouerned by the inuentions of men then by the diuine Euangelicall law as if the soule were lesse then the bodie and spirituall food lesse then carnall This assertion on my faith is not onely false but blasphemous for the doctrine of the Gospell by the professors thereof hath enlarged the Church as farre as heauen which the sonnes of Agar seeking after earthly wisedome haue thrust into the mire and it is the mercie of God that it is not wholy fallen The which things because my conscience testifies I speake not for gaine or of ambition or for mine owne credit but for the maintenance of the truth and common good because this court of Diuines hath little promoted the truth if not contemned it which notwithstanding hath purchased to it selfe all the glorie it can Pag. 28. A. D. All these be very grosse vntruths and some of them such as not onely Catholickes but also learned Protestants will confesse to be false yea euen M White himselfe either must confesse himselfe to be blockishly ignorant or carelesly inconsiderate or else he must grant that he hath affirmed these things against his owne knowledge and conscience Which being so I might here make an end without saying any more as hauing giuen the Reader a taste of M. Whites want of truth and sinceritie sufficient to make any discreet man beware how he giueth credit to these his writings 8 Away with this intollerable bragging and let the pen be put into the hands of some if any such be
their own and I haue so truly alledged them that the quotations being many hundreds this Iesuite in all his Reply hath not so much as enterprised to answer one of them but onely that of Baius whereby the Reader may guesse whether in this my assertion I haue lied or not He sayes there be so many blacke lies as there be instances in my words and I confesse I haue often heard of the sound of a lie that it hath rung so lowd that it might be heard from Rome hither though of the colour I neuer heard before vntil the Iesuites began to paint them yet the argument I vsed to proue that I said the purging and razing and forbidding so many of their owne writers is vnanswerable N. D. in his Warnword and A.D. in his Reply and he that scribbled I know not what against M. Crash may satisfie such as are full gorged with preiudice but let the indifferent reader judge if the publishing of bookes which the authors whose names they beare neuer writ and the razing and purging of their writings be not a manifest signe that they find the doctrine of their Diuines in former times to be against them and to crosse the present opinions of their Church The which their practise the Iesuite makes a light matter but it must be better considered It is our plea against the Church of Rome that the doctrine thereof is altered and that we hold nothing but what the learned in that Church taught as well as we many a day since And this we are ready to shew in euery question out of their bookes a This is so manifest that it cannot be denied 1. First the books thus purged are extant which are of the chiefest of their Diuiâ—eâ— Caietan Folydore Masius Ferus Alphonsus Molineus Eugubinus Lud Viues Erasmus Duarenus Faber Rhenanus and innumerable others 2. The directions for the purging of all authors by putting into them and taking out of them and razing what they writ called Judices expurgatorij according whereunto they are to be newly printed are extant one set forth in Flanders another in Spaine a third in Portugall a fourth in Naples a fift at Rome all which are publickly to be seene of which sort there are many more that we haue not yet come by and dayly more are made as the Iesuites and their gouernours can espie in any booke what they mislike In these Indices you may see what is to be put out and what to be foisted in in the bookes mentioned 3. There is strait order that no bookâ— be printed before it be thus purged The Spanish Index sayes in the preface thereof that of necessitie some things must be wiped out and cut off The King of Spaine authorizing the Index of Flanders sayes in his letters pattents prefixed that for the propagation of religion he had caused all the Libraries both publicke and priuate to be purged and learned men to be imployed in the reading and reuising of bookes that they might the better and in shorter time be purged commanding all Prelates secretly without the priuitie of any to haue an Expurgatory Index by them and according thereunto to blot out in bookes the places noted 4. Pope Leo the tenth in a certaine decretall appoints and ordaines that hereafter for euer no man shall print or cause to be printed any booke or writing in the citie of Rome or in any other place vnlesse first by his Vicar or Minister of his Pallace or by some Bishop or other thereunto deputed it be diligently examined and subscribed 7. Decretal pag. 534. To what purpose this examination is intended appeares by the rule of the Trent Councell Such bookes as handle good matter and yet haue some things interlaced by the way which belong to heresie or impietie may be permitted after they are purged by the authoritie of the Jnquisition Ind. lib. prohiâ— reg 8 Againe Such as publish Manuscript bookes before they be examined and allowed shall be punished Reg 10 Let Bishops and Jnquisitors haue facultie to purge all bookes whatsoeuer according to the prescript of this Jndex They which are put in trust with correcting and purging bookes must diligently looke into all things and attentiuely note them not such things onely as manifestly offer themselues in the course of the worke but if there be any thing that lies priuily in the Annotations Summaries Margents Tables or in the Prefaces or Epistles dedicatorie of such bookes the things to be corrected and purged are these that follow hereticall assertions or such as are erronious sauouring of heresie scandalous offensiue temerarious and schismaticall such as they will expound any thing to be that hath bene written contrary to the present Iesuitisme though it were holden neuer so generally in the Church of Rome heretofore such as induce any noueltie against the rites and ceremonies of the Sacraments and against the receiued vse of the Church of Rome Prophane nouelties also deuised by heretickes But in the bookes of later Catholickes written since the yeare 1515. if that which needs correcting can be mended by taking away or adding a few things let it be done otherwise let it be altogether blotted out instruct post Ind. 5. Posseuine the Iesuite sayes that in the publicke Libraries of Princes and others speciall care is to be had that Manuscript bookes not permitted by the Church be not open to the view of euery one because they also must be purged Bibl select pag 36. and that Antoninus an Archbishop in the Church of Rome 140 yeares since now enioying the light of heauen no doubt desires that all his writings should be reuiewed and occupied purer then of old they were apparat verb Anton. Flor M. Witherington sayes It is not the Popes manner to permit either the deeds or opinions of their predecessors which helpe the papall authoritie to be impugned or called into question and therfore as well the Pope himselfe as the Ordinarieâ— of places and Inquisitors are carefull enough that no bookes come abroad which any wayes derogate from the Popes authoritie and if that they do come abroad that they be suppressed or not read by any without speciall facultie till they be purged which is the cause why it is so hard a thing in these times to find any clause in the bookes of Catholickes calling the Popes temporall power in question or to know what such authors thought touching the same power who most an end are enforced to speake their mind in the words of the censors Apol. n. 449 Hasenmullerus speaking of this practise of the Inquisitors reports many things that it were too tedious to report pag. 275. And the like doth Iunius praef Ind. exp Belg. to whom I referre thee Wherein to preuent vs daily they raze and wipe those things out and put the contrary in and so publish their bookes the most diuellish and dishonest course that euer any sect vsed to helpe themselues and burne vp the old editions that are the true
copies which the Authors writ and whereby that should be tried that we say So that in the ages to come when the old copies shall be worne out and their New-purged ones shall haue gotten a little antiquitie these desperate Termagants will resolutely deny that euer any such thing was written or any such purging vfed so it shal be generally maintained that the things that the Iesuites and censors haue clapt into their bookes were written by the authors themselues If this can be answered what do pillories and papers ordained for forgers when not a poore parchment of euidence but the deeds and euidences of the Christian world shall thus be forged and all antiquitie be Iesuited and reduced by this practise to the new cut 2 In the meane time I answer the Iesuite that I wil stand to my offer if he will let the triall be made by bookes vnpurged such as are the true copies that the authors published that there is no point of our faith but many learned in their owne Church hold it with vs and no point of Papistrie that we haue reiected but some of them haue misliked it as well as we and his two instances of the Masse and Reall presence I accept though I haue answered them a Pag. 158. letter m. 178. lett e. 379. lett f. in THE WAY so directly that it was his best policie to dissemble it and to require me for my credit to do that which I had done alreadie For to his first demand How many learned men of our Church haue denied the Masse to containe a sacrifice in such sort as Protestants do denie I answered b Vbi sup in two seuerall places For the vnderstanding whereof and the applying my said answer to this place the Protestants denie that Christ in his last Supper which the Iesuite absurdly calls the Masse offered any propitiatorie sacrifice properly so called according to the reall notion of the word sacrifice of his bodie and bloud This I shewed by the testimonie c Can. loc l. 12. c. 13. Suar. com 3. d. 84. f. 2. Azor instit moral tom 1. l. 10. c. 18. of three seuerall Papists to be denied by some Catholickes in the Councell of Trent and they consequently denie as we do that the Priest offers any such sacrifice d Christus ea quae ab alijs obseruanda instituit ipse primitùs obseruarit Tho 3. q. 81. art 1.0 In hac quaestione initium sumendum est ex facto Christi quod exemplar est actioniâ— nostrae fundamentum ac primum initium huius mysterij Fra. Suar. vbi sup pag. 949. because the Priest now doth no more then Christ did then in his Supper They therefore that denie Christ offered any sacrifice denie it also in the Priest And then I alledged a discourse of Thomas where he propounds the question Whether in this Sacrament Christ be immolated that is sacrificed and his answer is that the celebration of this Sacrament is called the sacrificing of Christ for two causes First because images are vsed to be called by the names of the things whose images they be as when we behold a picture on a table we say this is Cicero Now the celebration of this Sacrament is a certaine image representing the passion of Christ which is his true sacrificing and therefore is called the sacrificing of Christ Next in regard of the effect of Christs passion because by this Sacrament we are made partakers of the benefit of our Lords passion In which words making no mention of such reall and vnbloudie sacrificing as the Church of Rome now teaches it is more then plaine that he beleeued it not For if he had he would haue vttered it as fully as he doth other things Besides these I ad the Master of Sentences who e If we talke of all Diuinitie the bookes of Peter Lombard Master of the Sentences is held to be the first methodicall worke that drew all diuinitie into a certaine forme Walsing p. 128. professing to set downe all the points of Diuinitie most exactly as our aduersaries say yet no where in all his booke mentions this kinde of sacrifice but f 4. d. 12 §. Post haec quaeritur propounding the question Whether that which the Priest doth in the Eucharist be properly said to be a sacrifice or immolation and whether Christ be dayly sacrificed or were onely once sacrificed his answer is To this it may briefly be said that which is offered and consecrated by the Priest is called a sacrifice and an oblation because it is a memoriall and representation of the true sacrifice and holy immolation made vpon the altar of the crosse and Christ died once vpon the Crosse and was there sacrificed in himselfe but he is dayly sacrificed in the Sacrament because the remembrance of that which is once done is retained These words shew plainely that some learned men in the Romane Church haue denied the Masse to containe a sacrifice euen in such sort as Protestants denie it 3 So there be also that affirme the reall substance of Christs bodie to be no nearer them that receiue the Sacrament then heauen is to the earth as the Caluinists hold For Picus Mirandulus g Conclus pag 64. nu â—4 pag 65. nâ— 20. sayes the bodie of Christ is sacramentally on the altar but locally in heauen and one bodie cannot be in diuers places at once And the opinion of the Caluinists is no otherwise then h Effectum tandem vt in hanc insaniam prorumperet Berengarius vt verum corpus sanguinem Christi non esse an pane vino docuerit haec haeresis apud Heluetios hoc nostro tempore per Caluinum reuocatae est Prateol Elenc verbo Berengarius Berengarius and yet Waldensis i Sacrament Eucharist c. 19. pag. 17. tom 2. writes that there were many that with the Church of Rome condemned Berengarius for his maner of speaking which yet thought as he did And k THE WAY pâ—g 349. I alledged a saying of l 4. d. 10. q. 1. §. Quantum Scotus that from the beginning since the matter of this Sacrament was beleeued it hath euer bene beleeued that Christs bodie is not moued out of his place in heauen that it might be here in the Sacrament and yet it was not in the beginning so manifestly beleeued as touching this conuersion Where Scotus affirmes that it hath not alway bene beleeued that the bodie of Christ is moued out of heauen to be in the Sacrament * Note touching the forme of recantation prescribed to Berengarius by Pope Nicolas wherein the Pope enioynes him to say J confesse the bread and wine after consecration to be the true body and bloud of Christ and to be sensibly handled in the hands of the Priest yea broken and chewed with the teeth of the faithfull Which words are read de Consec d. 2 ego Bereng and pressed by the
Ouandus a late schooleman Å¿ 4. D. 13. prop. 30 p. 348. that sayes He that fails to make paiment sinnes not because the other mans heresie hath discharged him Debtors may excuse themselves by excepting against him his heresie that demands the debt Angelus Clauasinus t Sum. Angel v Heresim n. 15 the same is in sum Armil v. Heresis n. 11. Siluest v. Heresis 1. n. 14. §. vndecima saies whosoever they be that stand bound to heretickes by any obligation they are ipso facto discharged therefore if any man haue promised paiment to such heretickes or sworne it at a certaine day he is not bound to performe it u And note that euen in this our present corrupt time with scisme heresie Catholicks want not good means to pay their tithes duely to God being such a number of poore Catholike Priests without any liuings of the Church which were not ordained for Caluinisticall Ministers but for the prouision of Catholicke Priests to whom in case they now pay their tithes God will reward it Hopkins memor pag. 333. Their doctrine also that teaches the people of our country to cozen their Ministers of their tithes and pay them to the poore Catholicke Priests is not far from this Eightly they teach to murder the King This I haue shewed at large * Cap. 6. a little before When D. Parry came ouer to murther good Queene Elizabeth one of the Popes Cardinals writ this letter to him Sir the Holines of our Lord the Pope hath seene your letter with the credence inclosed and cannot but praise your good disposition and resolution which you write holdeth to the seruice benefit publike Wherin his Holines exhorteth you to continue and to bring to passe that which you promise And to the end you may be the more aided by that good spirit which hath induced you to this his Blessednes granteth you full pardon and forgiuenes of all your sinnes as you requested assuring you that besides the merits which you shall receiue in heauen his Holines will make himselfe a farther debtor to acknowledge your deseruings in the best manner that he may and so much the more because you vse so great modestie in not pretending any thing Put therefore in act your holy and honourable thoughts and looke to your safety And so I present my selfe heartilie to you and wish you all good and happie successe From Rome the 30 of Ianuarie 1584. Yours to dispose N. Cardinall of Como x Rod. Botter comment pag. 109. When Chastell that wounded the last French king was examined By whose teaching and persuasion he had learned to kill the King he answered that he had heard of many that the murder was lawfull because they called him a Tyrant being demanded againe whether the Iesuites vsed to saie it were lawfull to kill the King he answered he heard manie say that fact was lawfull because he was out of the Church and excommunicated There is y Fra. de Veron Constant apol pro Ioh. Castel pag. 133. a booke written by a Papist in maintenance of this Chastels deed In this booke he saies if Harmodius and Aristogiton Sceuola and Brutus onely for loue of their countrie hauing no other light to goe before them cast themselues into such danger by murdering Tyrants what thinke you ought a Christian and a French man and one that burnes with the zeale of Phinees Ehud and Elias to do for their Catholike Church for which Christ died and wherein men are sure of their saluation And agreeably to this z Amphith pag. 101. writes Bonarscius a Iesuite Hath the Pope no power against the King of France Shall Dyonisius Machanidas Aristotimus Tyrants Monsters of the world oppresse France and shall no Pope incourage up a Dion a Timoleon to dispatch them shall manie Monsters hold the Common-wealth in bands and shall no Thrasibulus mooue his hand shall there be no man to play the souldior vpon this beast the King of France And that we may know who were the authors of his death which not long after ensued a Pag. 258. Bellarm gaue better words Tort. p. 108 but this had more skill in prophecy thus Francis of Verone Chastells patrone prophecies Though the Prince of Orange scaped the first * With a pistoll at Antwerp whereof he scaped See Dinoth and Meteran blow giuen him in his cheeke yet the next hit whereof this was a presage as the blow giuen by Chastell shall be the forerunner of another blow to come hereafter 7 Ninthly the conspiracy for the blowing vp of the Parliament was allowed and ratified by Iesuites and Popish Priests Garnet Gerard Oldcorn Greenewell beside others whom we neuer yet saw b See Act. S. Garnet Mâ—teran rer Belg. tom 2 pag. 385 D. Eliens Tor. pag. 279. inde D. Abb. anti log c. 9. 10. 11. 12. Casaub ad Front First certaine lay Recusants Catesby Percy Winter Tresham Wright deuised the plot and then the Iesuites fell in with them GARNET imparted the Popes Breues to Catesby whereby he was stirred vp to deuise some way how to take away the King and when he had bethought himselfe of this powder plot first in generall tearms he breaks with Garnet a case What if in some case the innocent should be destroied with the guilty and Garnet affirmed they might so that it were for a good able to recompence the losse of those innocent persons Afterward the thing was plainely opened to him not in confession as it is said by Garnets Patrons and he concealed allowed and incouraged it whose authority was it that drew so many into it And this is manifest by his examinations confessions and his owne hand-writing and his priuate conference with Oldcorn in the Tower TESMOND plotted together with Garnet and when the villanie was discouered went vp and downe to raise open arms against the King OLD CORN alià s HALL defends the plot after it was discouered to his Catholicks and will not haue them let downe their courage for the ill successe which many times followed a good cause HAMMOND in Winters house absolued the traitors when the treason was reuealed and they all ready to take armes GERARD gaue them the sacrament to bind them to secrecie All these things with their circumstances are now laied open by the publike writings of our state and are cleared against the desperate cauils of our aduersaries out of the publike records Lastly that the Church of Rome dispenses with murther and whordome is plaine by that which I haue shewed touching the Popes dispensing with the murder of Princes and the Iesuites enterprising it But this is yet more fully to be seene in c Taxa Camerae cancell apost to be seene in Tractat. iur D D. tom 10. and in Recusat concil Trident. in 4. printed Angentor 1565. the Taxation of the Popes chamber and Chancery where there is no sinne so great but absolution and dispensation may be had for
darkenesse for there cannot lightly be more falshood and compiled fraud together in so small a compasse then is in these bookes but whereas he sayes in the margent that Walsingham was once an earnest Protestant and is now become a good Catholike I aduise him not to be too confident for he knowes that some hauing upon Walsinghams groundes fallen to Papistry yet haue not long continued so but upon a new search haue with comfort and peace returned backe againe whence they went and therefore the surest way were to follow the order of the Pontificall and coniure him the which way of coniuring such as are reconciled to the Church of Rome I say againe is prescribed in a a Pontifical Roman part tit ordo ad reconciliand pag. â—06 of the old print solemne Booke containing the forme of many ceremonies vsed therein that it is the desperatest and basest shift that can be thus to deny such an order specially the booke containing and prescribing it being lately printed againe at Rome And if the said Walsingham turned Papist as the Iesuit reports by obseruing the sinceritie of Catholikes and the grosse lying that he found in Protestant writers I pittie his case that would refuse his religion upon supposall of that which is not so for to speake of that which I have searched into my selfe the places obiected to Bishop Iewell a man of incomparable learning and pietie whose name is sufficient to beare downe all that speake against him I finde that as the things taxed in him will be iustified so himselfe in his life time in the second edition of his defence cleared the most of them against Stapleton Harding and the rest whose obiections they are that Walsingham hath set downe dissembling the answer that the Bishop himselfe made vnto them and if I be not deceived the pretended Walsingham writ not that booke who being as he saith himselfe but a Deacon and vnskilfull at those times in the controuersies could not obiect answer meditate and conceiue the things contained in that Booke the stile and matter thereof bewrayes another author and our aduersaries were neuer yet so curious but they could be content with any forgerie and fopperie to aduance their cause and with policie to promote their religion which Gods blessed truth that needes no mans lie would abhorre to do 2 And whereas the Iesuit sayes there is ordinarily among them the spirit of meekenesse and forbearance more then can be expected among Protestants and if any Papist haue threatned and attempted vnfit things our Church doctrine doth disallow it would this were true For I haue shewed that their Church and doctrine haue allowed taught and defended the murder of kings and the absoluing of their subjects from obedience their bookes also are full of vile and inhumane speeches against our state the Iesuits themselues ioyned with the rest in the treason of Gunpowder their bookes are written not with Inke but vineger In Queene Maries time they shewed such meekenesse as the Turke vses to do at the sacking of a towne the barbarous rage of the Cleargie in those daies against the poore seruants of Iesus Christ was such that it cannot be forgotten the common sort of Recusants I haue seene so inflamed with furie that all the water in Trent would not quench it if occasion wanted not I saw Hunt a Seminarie Priest behaue himselfe so outragiously at the barre at Lancaster where he was arraigned for an assault made vpon the way upon certaine officers that were carrying a prisoner whereof he shot * G. Trauis one into the thigh with a pistoll that Sir Thomas Hesckith the Queenes attorney at that time giuing euidence against him called to haue him set farther off him and some companie stand betweene for doing him mischiefe his outrage in countenance and words were such The Bull of Pius against good Queene Elizabeth the writings of Cardinall Pool against the state in king Henries time the diuelish behauiour of the Popes clawbackes and vassals in their writings this day toward his Maiestie remember Pruritanus with his Quaere quare remember b M. Wrightintons cattell at one time and M. Bretters at another a litle before the Queenes death the poore dumb beasts pitifullie butchered in Lancashire and the Spanish inuasion with the Zeale and fury wherewith the chiefest of your side aduanced it remember finally the Inquisition and the order of the execution and talke no more of meekenesse and forbearance all which is not obiected in malice either to incense them or make them odious but onely by laying open their sinne to draw them to repentance and their followers to obedience when this their cariage hath so shaken the land disinabled the state that we cannot thinke of it but many a time and often for feare of the euent and iealousie of his Maiestie and his children with weeping teares nor speake of them but as Iacob did of his children c Gen. 49.5 Simeon and Leui brethren in evill the instruments of crueltie are in their habitation let not my soule come into their Councell if we could preuaile that way we would intreate them that are their acquaintance the band of nature and humanitie should coniure them religion by her sacred maiestie should beseech them our common Baptisme the Seale of our Christian profession should importune them their dearest countrey like Coriolanus mother should be sent out vnto them with breasts displaied and weeping teares and her haire hanging about her shoulders to reconcile them but nothing can do it no intreaty no forbearance no benefits Rome hath alienated and imbruted them and how to shew them loue we know not but must say as the Romane Lady did to her sonne in armes against his countrey d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plutarch Coriol We cannot pray both for our owne safety and thy health but as our enemies would pray against vs for either the countrey must perish or else you must be taken out of it CHAP. XII Touching the ignorance that Papistry hath bred among people Their barbarous manner of praying auouched Of Iohn the Almoner a legend The manner how a certaine Priest baptized 2. The replies zeale for recusants of the better sort 3. A Lanc. Gentleman alledged by the reply A note of a french Knight 4. The successe of preaching in Lanc. A. D. The sixt marke saith M. White is that prodigious ignorance whereunto they fall who liue in papistry Pag. 35. for proofe whereof he setteth downe certaine examples which he saith he hath obserued from the common people to wit these insuing Creezum zuum patrum onitentem c. Little Creed c White pater noster c. After which hauing two other examples of like odde stuffe he further saith Their prayers and traditions of this sort are infinite and the ceremonies they vse in all their actions are nothing inferiour to the Gentiles in number and strangenes which saith he any man may easily obserue that conuerseth with
Baronius takes him vp b An. 60. n. 20. You may see for it must necessarily be spoken his words are so full against our inuocation of Angels Theodoret by his leaue hath nothing happily attained the sence of Pauls wordes when in his Commentaries vpon this Epistle he sayes these things were written by Paule because heretickes then came in who boasted that Angels should be worshipped For who these heretickes were let him say himselfe and being once fallen into an error he stumbled presently vpon a worse that he sayes the Canon of the Laodicen Councell is to be vnderstood of such hererickes as taught the worship of Angels and erected an oratory to Michael the Archangel too inconsiderately attributing that to heretickes which of ancient time was done by Catholikes 11 This opinion of vsing the mediation of Angels and Saints departed arose from the Gentiles and specially the followers of Plato c Alcino de doctri Platon c. 15. pag. 79. Porphyr de abstinent animal l. 2. pag. 40. Apul. de deo Socrat. pag. 91. August De ciuit l. 8. c. 18. 19. l. 9. c. 9. whose doctrine it was that the spirits of men departed and Angels imploy themselues in carrying our prayers to God and therefore it is a good way to inuocate them Eusebius d Praeparat Euang l. 12. c. 3. p. 338. graec reports the wordes of Plato Certainely the soules of the Dead departed haue a certaine power and are carefull about the businesse of men These things are true but the reasons containing them are long it is the best way therefore to credite that which others haue reported concerning them the reports being so manifold and ancient The which words of Plato e lac Ziglir quem refert Chemnit Iesuitism pag. 100. cited sometime by a Papist as Eusebius owne to proue the inuocation of the dead shew not onely the affinity of the opinions of the Papists and Gentiles touching this point but also the foundation whereupon they both stand the ancient tradition of their elders Afore I leaue the point I must according to my professed method shew the confession of some Papists touching this matter f In 2. Tim. digr 17. pag. 118. Espenceus a Sorbonist Are they well and godly brought vp which being children almost a hundred yeares old that is to say old and ancient Christians do no lesse attribute to the Saints and trust in them then to God himselfe and thinke God himselfe harder to be pleased and intreated then they Would God I lied and there were no such g Consult pag. 154. George Cassander This false and pernitious opinion is too well knowne to haue preuailed among the vulgar while wicked men perseuering in their naughtinesse are perswaded that onely by the intercession of the Saints whom they haue chose to be their patrons and worship with cold and prophane ceremonies they haue pardon and grace prepared them with God which pernitious opinion hath bene confirmed in them as much as was possible with lying miracles And there is another error that men not euill of themselues haue chosen certaine Saints to be their patrones and keepers and put confidence in their merits and intercession more then in the merite of Christ so farre that the onely office of Christs intercession being obscured they haue substituted into his place the Saints and specially the Virgine his mother c. h In Augu. De ciuit l. 8. c. 27. pag. 494. Lodouicus Viues There are many Christians which most an end sinne in a good matter when they worship Saints both men and women no otherwise then they worship God and I cannot see in many that there is any difference betweene the opinion they haue of the Saints and that which the Gentiles had of their gods A. D. The which is more easily seene Page 4â— when as all the intercession which we craue Saints departed or liuing men to make for vs doth depend wholy vpon Christs merits and mediation and so to depend as acknowledged by vs when in the ordinary Collects of the blessed Virgine and other Saints vsed by our Church there is added per Christum Dominum nostrum through Christ our Lord. So that for this part of M. Whites accusation I need say no more 12 This is his second reason whereby he excuses praying to Saints and would make it seeme to be nothing against the Mediatorship of our Sauiour because they acknowledge the intercession of Saints to depend vpon the merites and mediation of Christ and therefore in their praiers and Collects to them there is added Per Christum Dominum nostruÌ„ Through Iesus Christ our Lord so that for this part of M. Whites accusation he need say no more but this answer is vnsufficient For first per Christum Dominum nostrum is added in none of their praiers vsed by their Church that I alledged nor in any of that sort as wil appeare to him that will take the paines to searâ—h their Primers and Portuisses That clause being added to praiers made to God where the merits and mediation of a Saint are mentioned therein but not in such praiers as are directed to the Saints themselues for then the abomination were greater to make Christ their mediator to a creature Next the adding of per Christum Dominum nostrum hath no place in their idolatrous protestations touching the merits and excellency of Friar Frauncis Friar Dominicke the holy Virgine and others to whom I shewed what monsters of merits they attribute making them equall to Christ himselfe The which may yet more fully be seene in their doctrine touching Friar Frauncis wherein Christ in all things that are written in the Gospell of him is paralleled with him in his Birth in the Prophecies forerunning him in his life temptations Disciples doctrine Miracles Transfiguration Passion Ascension and what not as may be seene in the Booke of his Conformities a An. 1590. at Bonony lately printed that we may know the present Church of Rome and the Pastors thereof at this day stand in the same damnable idolatrie which we hoped had bene but the priuate superstitioÌ„ of some paltry Friars That booke doth containe the most blasphemies against Christ that euer did any since Iulian and Porphyry gaue ouer writing and I do verily thinke that as the Diuell stirred vp of old b Philostrat vita Apolon Tyanae him that writ the like of Apollonius Tyanaeus thereby to ouerthrow the Gospell by writing a story of a damned Necromancer that should in all things match Christ the Sonne of Marie so the same Diuell set the Friar a worke to write this Conformity that the merits of Christ might be suppressed and a stinking idoll set vp in his steed and yet the same is newly set foorth and at this day by open c Henr. Sedul apologet pro li. conform Antuerp 1607. Apologies iustified But to leaue this Romane Alcoran what do they talke of the Virgine Maries intercession depending on
vntruth or vnsinceritie hath he shewed what one thing hath he performed worthy of this bragging that neither had the wit to answer the whole nor the fortune to find so much as the least error in any part of that I writ yet you see how he comes vpon the stage b Iust Mart. ib. pag. 392. like Orestes with terrible gesture his bodie bombasted vpon high stilts with a monstrous face and roaring voice not that he hopes hereby to fasten any imputation vpon me but because this is the art of these men with words and boasting to outface their aduersaries and their policie to keepe the vulgar sort of Papists in bondage to Romish drudgerie For the same Iustin c Ibid. pag 390 sayes clamorous and wording companions * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seeme admirable to some whose sloth and carelesnesse to looke into things makes them admire other mens lowd boasting 2 For what he hath discouered in my writing will appeare of it selfe without this facing and scurrilitie and I wish with all my heart that my selfe by that which he hath obiected against me and other our writers by that which Walsingham hath noted in them might be censured then should the Reader see if he would take the paines to make the triall as well by our answers as their quarrels this Walsingham to be the man that hath prostituted and set himselfe to sale to lie dissemble and calumniate and the Iesuite that thus mentions him to be a poore Empericke that hath more skill in shriuing then booking and disputing And whereas he sayes twice ouer that I and other pettie Ministers in simplicitie furnish our discourses out of other mens note-Note-books which is the cause why we are so often and grosly taken napping let him spet and speake out who acquainted him with my reading that he can tell so well whence I haue that I write what one place hath he shewed in all my writing to be mistaken by borrowing it from others Note-bookes What materiall quotation is there but I haue so marked it that he may see I read it in the Author himselfe Although I wil not onely not denie but freely congratulate my selfe that I haue learned and increased the little knowledge I haue by reading and vsing the writings of those whose bookes I am not worthy to beare And if either I or any other had taken any thing out of Caluin B. Iewell or M. Foxe yet might the Iesuite ill vpbraid vs with it who himself translated his whole Treatise that I answered from Greg. of Valence his Analysis fidei All his introduction containing a fourth part of his Reply out of the same mans tract de obiecto fidei His discourse of Predestination containing ten pages together verbatim out of Becanus His Appendix containing another fourth part of his Reply partly out of Gregory Valence and partly out of Stapleton The Catalogue being borrowed from Canisius Besides his continuall referring himselfe to Walsingham Briarly and Coccius So that he that so magisterially censures our reading himselfe hath stolen the whole carcasse of his very book wherein he writes this Besides let him giue a sufficient reason why it should not be lawfull for vs to vse and follow the learned Diuines of our Church as well as it is for a Papist to follow his Thomas his Robert his Stapleton his Gretser his Coccius his Aius Locutius The which vntill he can do he shall giue vs leaue to thinke as well of them as they do of these though we sound not their praises so lowd 3 And yet this conceit of vsing Note-bookes satisfies him not neither for though other mens books might deceiue vs in some things yet he sees at least some wit learning and reading in vs which makes him fall a musing But to put him out of his browne studie be it knowne vnto him and all of his mind that we follow our cause religion with knowledge and peace and a good conscience and write that we know and are able to defend against all this barking and shameles brags of their owne learning and our grounds are Gods word contained in the Scripture and the certen consent of the Church in all ages and that which makes vs the more resolute is the lothsome cariage and behauiour of our aduersaries who notwithstanding with all their endeuour cannot remoue our grounds in one question But with forgerie partialitie tyranny railing and bragging deale against vs which being the weapons of darknesse and desperation we detest and loathe dayly praying to Iesus Christ that he will hasten his comming and let it appeare who they be that haue the truth when the malice of men and the pride of Antichrist thus suppresse it in darknesse Pag. 46. A.D. Among vs it is held against good conscience to tell any formall lie in whatsoeuer matter although without harme of any although by the speaker intended for the glory of God or the good of neuer so many But it seemeth not so to be thought by at least some of the Protestant writers nay it seemeth rather that they either haue no conscience or a very large conscience and that they either seldome or neuer enter into consideration what may or may not stand with conscience or that they frame in themselues such a grosse conscience as I haue read of some Ministers of a In Apol. Eudaemon Johannis pro Henr. Garnet c. 2 See also Bolseck in vita Calumi c. 20. Geneua who held it lawfull to lie for the glory of God and for the aduancement of the Gospell conformably to which is b D. B. in his answer to M. Abbot reported also that one of our English Ministers not many yeares since being told that grosse vntruths were found in the booke of a late Protestant writer answered He cannot lie too much in this cause O wretched cause which needeth to be maintained by such wicked meanes If it were the truth and especially as some Protestants professe it to be the euident truth there should be no need to defend it with lies neither indeed whatsoeuer it be ought it in conscience or credit be defended especially with such grosse lies as sometimes it is Wherefore if Protestant writers do think their cause true and good and therupon in zeale wil needs maintain it I would aduise them for the time to come to be more carefull of truth in maintaining it then hitherto diuers of them haue bene both for conscience and credit sake and as they desire to auoide sinne and shame This passage of the Iesuite and the continuall insolency that he vseth through his Reply makes me remember the relation of * Relat. of the state of relig a noble gentleman concerning the education of the Iesuites which being fit for this place I will here set downe The Iesuites plant in their Scholers with great exactnes and skill the rootes of their Religion and nourish them with an extreame hatred and detestation of the aduerse party And
to make them for euer intractable to any contrary perswasion they worke into them by great cunning and obstinacy of minde and sturdie eagrenesse of spirit to affect victory with all violence of wit in all their controuersies And presuming perhaps of the truth before hand and labouring no other thing than the aduancing of the partie they indeuour as I said by all meanes to imbreede that fiercenesse and obstinacy in their Scholers as to make them hote prosecuters of their owne opinions impatient and intractable of any contrary considerations as hauing their eies fixed vpon nothing but onely victory in arguing for which cause to strengthen in them those passions by exercise I haue seene them in their bare Grammaticall disputations enflame their Scholers with such earnestnes and fiercenesse as to seeme to be at the point of flying each into others face to the amazement of those strangers which had neuer seene the like before but to their owne great content and glory as appeared This being noted now reade the Reply againe and behold a Iesuite whose profession and practise is to equiuocate to forsweare to purge bookes to raze counterfet forge belie all antiquity to liue and breathe by deuising shifts and trickes to vphold their state now complaining of want of truth That the Protestants defend their cause with lying against their conscience Which might with more probability lesse grudging on our part haue bene said if himselfe had not bene a Mas Priest or if in all his Reply he had discouered but one thing written either against conscience or against the truth or against all the learned in his owne Church but when he cannot present the Reader with one conclusion one doctrine one quotation one line or letter to make him really see wherein I haue failed all this is but a small furniture of brags to small purpose and I despise it 4 And whereas he sayes among Iesuites and Papists it is held against good conscience to tell any formall lie in any matter c he belies his owne knowledge saue that when they are shewed to be the archlyars of the world by equiuocating and forging they will answer they are no formall lies But if lying be c Mendacium est falsa significatio vocis cū voluntate fallendi Gelas 22. q. 2. Beatus ille mentitur qui aliud habet in animo aliud verbis vel quibuslibet significationibus enuntiat Augustin de mendac c. 3. tom 4. speaking contrary to the truth with purpose to deceiue the doctrine of equiuocation so stifly maintained will prooue them lyars both formall and reall wherein how far this generation hath waded the affaires of our state in our time haue made knowne to women and children But if the lie be free from euill intent as an officious or a merry lye and Papists can define the foulest lyes that are to be such for a vantage then d Rosell Armil Angel Sa. v. Mendacium vocabul theolog v. Mendac Tolet. de sept pecc pag 930. Llam sum pag. 615. the schooles allow it well enough and think it at most but a veniall But Caietan e 22. Tho qu. 110. art 2. sayes He that without purpose of hurt tells a pernitious lie though he tell a formall lie yet he doth not formally lie pernitiously nor sin mortally vnles peraduenture it be by accident yet the Iesuite you see sayes otherwise that with vs it is held which know not the doctrine of the Thomists against good conscience to tell a formall lie not in a hurtfull matter onely but in any whatsoeuer and so laies it vpon the Ministers of Geneua and England alledging Eudemons Apology for Garnet the father of lies and Bolseck that deboisht Apostata to prooue it against them of Geneua and D. B. a Seminary Priest to prooue it against an English Minister but for so much as these men are all Papists in such credit with the Iesuite let D. Bishop who is one of them make my answer f D. Bish repr of D. Abb. def pag. 120. Any man not past all care of his reputation would be ashamed to cite such late partiall writers for sufficient witnesses in matters of controuersie wherein themselues were parties And that he sayes of Illyricus and Bale two Protestants when they were alledged against him the same I returne vpon these three g P. 183. They are hereticall and lying companions and therefore no sufficient witnesses h P. 249. No great regard is to be had what such lying lewd fellowes relate and so I thinke them worthy of no other answer by D. B. owne rule therefore these being our aduersaries are no competent witnesses and it was but the poore Iesuites ill hap to light on them when the first and principall is a Creet by birth of that nation i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tit. 1.12 Callimach hymn in lou that breeds lyars writ his booke alledged in defence of him that was the fowlest lyar and formallest equiuocator that euer liued k See Casaub ep ad Fronto p. 116. inde This man whom Eudemon defends hauing with grieuous protestations and vpon his Saluation denied many truthes and notoriously his conference with Hall the Priest in the Tower when afterward he was demanded why he would do so in a paper he wrote subscribed these words This I acknowledge to be according to mine opinion and the opinion of all the Schoolemen and our reason is for that in causes of lawfull equiuocation the speech by equiuocation being saued from a lye the same speech may be without periury confirmed by oath or by any other way though it were by receiuing the Sacrament if iust necessity so require HENRY GARNET Thus to quit themselues from lying and to lay the imputation vpon others the Iesuite hath no other shift but to quote a lying Creet in defence of an equiuocating traitor whose hatefull names he would not haue suffered to haue appeared in his margent to such a purpose had he well digested what they were and what they writ and were he not one of those that loues Garnets treason and Eudemons defence of it better then we yet know of he would haue vsed other witnesses A. D. But if they know in their conscience as perhaps some of them do their cause to be false and bad Pag. 47. then I counsell them quite to abandone it without delay and no way in word or writing to maintaine it especially by offering vntruths in defence of it in regard such men ought to know that to persist in a knowne bad cause and to maintaine it by such a knowne bad means cannot but greatly increase both sin and shame and will without repentance bring vpon them certaine and double damnation Lastly if any of them haue such seared consciences that they make no conscience but thinke they may with a safe conscience persist in maintaining the Protestants cause after they know it to be false and
it may be the easing of him may do him good He complains this distinction when it is granted will not helpe the matter neither for the question may still be how many and which truthes those be that are necessary the which question if we leaue to be determinated by euery priuate spirit either we shall haue no point to be counted Fundamentall in regard the ignorance of some may be such that they may thinke a man may be saued by morall good life although through ignorance he beleeue nothing at all or else so many as shall please euery brainsicke fellow The determination therefore of this necessary question is to be left to the iudgement of the Catholicke Church that all such points that are confirmed by full authority of the said Church he receiued for such as must necessarily be beleeued by all men Wherein first I blame his discretion for where I mentioned the distinction I had no cause to inquire whose the authority is to iudge what is Fundamentall and what otherwise but assuming it as a thing iudged already I onely mentioned it affirming some points to be Fundamentall and some otherwise How it helps the matter therefore I had nothing to do in that my words were not vsed in this question Next I pittie his wretched state that in no controuersie running betweene vs no not so much as in this a poore distinction can preuaile vnlesse his owne Church and the Pope therein for * Shewed plainely below cap 35. 36. that he meanes by the authority of the Catholicke Church be made the iudge This is a very meane shift when a question depends betweene vs and them to put the Scripture and the consent of the Ancient Church by and require themselues to be iudges Thirdly this question as all other matters belonging to faith must be iudged by no mans priuate spirit but by the Catholicke Church of Christ as the Iudge and by the Scripture onely as the Rule and if they be no competent Iudges who through ignorance may thinke a man may be saued by morall good life though he beleeue nothing at all then away with the Church of Rome and let it be acknowledged as erroneous as any priuate spirit i See cap. 22. n. 1. wherein it is frequently holden that the Gentiles were iustified and might be saued onely by their morall life without beleeueing any thing at all Fourthly supposing the Protest left the determining of this question to priuate spirit which they do not but to the true Church of God following the Scripture yet let my Iesuite answer if the practise of his owne Church be not as bad where the Pope hath power k See cap. 36. n. 3. to make a new article of faith and that to be a Fundamentall point belonging to faith at one time which is not so at another so that all men shall then be bound to beleeue it which before were free to beleeue it l Scot. 4. d. 11. q. 3 §. ad argu Tonstall de verit corp p 46. as it hath already bene practised in the point of transubstantiation and may when the Pope will in the points of m Dico primò veritatem hanc sc virginem esse conceptam sine peccato originali posse definiti ab Ecclesia quando id expedire indicauerit probatur Nam imprimis EcclesiaÌ„ posse controuersiam hanc in alterutram partem decidere apertè supponunt Sixtus 4. Pius 5. Suar. tom 2. disp 3. sect 6. the conception of the B. Virgin and n Paul Benc Eugub l. de effic auxil c. 1. the concourse of Gods grace with mans wil and the o Staplet Princip doctr l. 9. c. 4. Relect. coÌ„tro 5. q. 2. art 4. Canonizing of Hermes or Clement into the sacred Scripture In which case his Holinesse might possible if not be brain-sicke which betides yonger men which Popes commonly are not vnlesse it be sometime when the yong Cardinâ—â— are in an humor to elect a Bennet or Iohn or * When Leo the tenth a yong man was elected in the Conclaue Alphonsus Petrucius a yong Cardinall proclaimed his election at the window Pontificem habemus Leonem decimum ac viuant vigeantque iuniores Pap. Masso in LeoÌ„ 10. he should haue cried by the order Annutiâ— vobis gaudium magnum Papam habemus Marcell sacr cerem pag. 19 Leo yet doâ—e at least by vertue of his age or for his recreation play the vice of a Play as p Alex. ab Alexand. genial dicr l. 3. c. 21. Amasis the King of Egipt would sometime do among his Courtiers and as q Aelian var. hist l. 12. c. 15. Agesilaus ride vpon a sticke among his children to make them sport the which comparisons howsoeuer his creatures will take vnkindly yet all the world knowes his Consistorie hath bene a stage whereon he hath many a time and often plaied these parts ere now as formally as the priuatest spirit or braine-sickest companion aliue can do and so I leaue him CHAP. XVIII 1. Touching the perpetuall virginity of Mary 2. The celebration of Easter 3. The Baptisme of Infants The Iesuits halting 4. And the Scriptures sufficiency A. D. I for breuitie sake will omit to vrge other points Pag. 68. which Protestants beleeue with vs viz the perpetuall virginitie of the blessed Virgine against the errour of Heluidius White pag. 12. the celebration of Easter on the Sunday against those heretikes that denied it the Baptisme of Infants against Anabaptists who will not allow it c. 1 HEre my name is cited in the Margent and the page of my Booke as if I had written or some way insinuated that these 3. points were matters of faith and yet not contained in the Scripture But I writ nothing that sounds that way neither in the place cited nor any where else yet because I will misse no place where he cites me I answer he affirmes 3. things First that we hold the perpetuall virginity of the blessed Virgine the Celebration of Easter vpon the Sunday and the Baptisme of Infants to be a For that is the question expressed by himselfe a litle before pag. 67. of his Repl. points of faith necessary to be beleeued â—â—condly that these 3. are not contained in Scripture Thirdly that we beleeue all this with the Papists Wherein there is neuer a true word For to the first the perpetuall virginity of the Virgine Marie after the birth of our Sauiour as well as before we beleeue as a probable and likely truth but not as a matter of faith the which if my aduersarie mislike I require him to forbeare me and answer Saint Basil with whom we consent b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Basil pa. 233. graec Froben an 1551. That she denyed not the workes of mariage to her husband after the birth of her Sonne though it nothing hinder godly doctrine yet what was done after without medling with it let vs leaue to the
is manifestly gathered from that which of it selfe is manifest as that a stone cannot moue vpward of it selfe naturally because all heauie things naturally moue downeward Hence it is plaine that * Albeit faith rest not vpon that eu dence but vpon duine reuelatioÌ„ Fides non elicit actus suos mediante discursu sed sicut visus immediate fertur in obiectum sub ratione lucidâ—â—ta etiam fulei habitus in suum obiectum sub ratione diuinae reuelationis The contrary whereof is Manichisme Putaruâ—t nihil amplius esse â—re dendum quà m quod possit euidenti ratione demonstrari August de vtil credend c. 1. tom 6. many obiects of faith may also be euident because that which is beleeued may also in some respect be seene as Peter that beleeued Christ yet also saw him Or otherwise be knowne by the light of nature or gathered from that which is knowne as that there is a God And before I read this in my aduersaries margent I neuer knew but there was a compossibilitie of faith and euidence in diuers respects whereby they might both stand together in the same man about the same obiect Eymericus n Eymeric Directo part 1. q. 2 n. 2. sayes We may know the vnitie of the Deitie by naturall reason yet we beleeue one God Delgado o De Author Script pag. 51. Many diuine things touching God which are receiued by faith may also be found out by naturall reason Caietan p Caiet 22. qu. 175. art 3. sayes though Paul were rapt into the third heauens where he saw things which before hee beleeued yet the habit of faith touching those things remained in him still c. Faith and knowledge q Mayro 3. d. 23. art 6. pag. 13 sayes Francis Mayronis are habits that may stand together Faith by authoritie reuealed knowledge by euident demonstration Thus it is no contradiction that the same obiect be beleeued by authoritie and euidently knowne by demonstration Altisiodorensis r Altisiod sum l. 3. pag. 273. According to diuers apprehensions the same thing is knowne and beleeued beleeued and doubted Å¿ Mag. 3. d. 24. Alexand. 3. part qu. 79. m. 3. Tho. 22. qu. 2. art 4. cont Gent l. 1. c. 4 Occh. 3. q. 8. art 4. c. Duran prol sent pag. 4 c. Ricard 3. d. 24. q. 5. pag. 85. Gabr. 3. d 24. qu. vnic art 2. concl 2. Henric. Albert. Bonau Tarantas quos refert sequitur Dionys 3. d. 24. Simanch cath instit tit 28 n. 18. Rectè porro Caiet ex hoc loco Pauli argumentatur esse nonnulla quae de Deo euidenter cognosci demonstratiue probari queant Perer. select disp in Roma pag. 83. The principallest Schoole-men that are do all hold thus which I would not haue noted so curiously but to beate the confidence of my aduersary thus peremptorily auouching against me that he knowes not For albeit faith exceeds the dimension of reason yet reason is subordinate to it as sense is to vnderstanding And therefore as it is no inconuenience to say we vnderstand the same things we see no more is it to say we beleeue that which is euident in diuers respects How many things are we commanded in the Scripture to beleeue which yet we can demonstrate by reason as that there is a God and the immortalitie of the soule For as one may reueale a thing to another two wayes together first by shewing him a light to see it and then by proposing some externall signe or marke whereby to finde it or some image or description whereby to conceiue it so God hath shewed vs the Scripture to be diuine not onely by the light that shines in it whereby we beleeue it but also by the outward contexture of it containing the image of the diuine wisedome and puritie as the principles of sciences shew their owne authoritie The place cited out of the Hebrewes is answered by that I haue said CHAP. XX. 1. A continuation of the same matter touching the Churches authoritie in giuing testimonie to the Scriptures 2. The Scripture proues it selfe to be Gods word 3. The light of the Scripture 4. 5. How we are assured of the Scripture by the Spirit 6. The reason why some see not the light of the Scripture 7. The Papists retiring to the Spirit 8. And casting off the Fathers A Councell is aboue the Pope The Pope may erre A.D. It seemeth M. White saw the weaknesse of this his first answer Pag. 70. White pag. 47. and therefore not standing vpon it he secondly attempteth to proue Scripture to be diuine out of the Scripture For saith he S Paul 1 1. Tim. 3 v. 16 saith All Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God and S. Peter 2 2. Pet. 1. v. 20. saith no prophesie in the Scripture is of priuate interpretation but the holy men of God spake as they were moued by the holy Ghost Against this I reply that my argument doth not enquire onely how we proue in generall that there is any diuine Scripture at all which is all that these or any such like sentences can proue but chiefly I aske how we proue these books in particular which the Church now vseth bearing the titles of S. Matthews S. Marks Gospel c. to be diuine Scripture to be the same which was written by those writers whose title they beare For vpon the certain beliefe hereof dependeth the certaintie of other points proued out of these bookes Now it is certaine that this is not proued by those sentences of Scripture since it may be true that there is some diuine Scripture and that all true diuine Scripture was inspired by God and yet if we seclude Tradition and Church-authoritie the question may still be whether S. Matthewes S. Markes Gospell c. especially these in particular which are now vsed are part of that Scripture which these sentences speake of Secondly I say that before these sentences proue sufficiently that there is any diuine Scripture at at all these sentences themselues must be supposed to be diuine the which cannot sufficiently be proued either by themselues or any other like sentences if we exclude Tradition which doth shew that they be diuine 1 All this I answered in the words of my Booke a Digress 12. immediatly following these words that he hath cited and that so briefly directly that nothing could be spoken plainer To proue the imperfection of the Scripture he had said it was no where expresly set downe and determined in Scripture that these bookes are the true word of God this in particular of euerie Booke holden for Scripture we shall not finde expresly written in any part of the Scripture Whereto I answered that it was written expresly that b 2. Tim. 3.16 All Scripture is giuen by inspiration and c 2. Pet. 1.20 No Scripture is of priuate interpretation but the holy men of God spake as they were moued by the holy Ghost
d Luc. 1 70. God spake by the mouth of his holy Prophets therefore it is expresly written that all the bookes of Scripture are Gods word Any man may see this answer to be full his question being touching this Scripture that we vse and haue in our hand where therein it was written that it selfe is Gods word For I answer that it is written in these three places whereof he hath here rehearsed two Now he replies that he doth not onely enquire how we proue in generall that there is any diuine Scripture at all but how we proue these bookes which the Church now vses to be the same that those men writ whose titles they beare which he sayes cannot be proued by the Scriptures alledged because it may still be doubted whether these bookes that we vse as the Gospell of Matthew and Marke for example be part of that Scripture which the texts alledged affirme to be inspired of God and it must likewise be proued that these texts that affirme this are themselues the word of God Whereto I answer first that granting these places to proue some diuine Scripture to be and to be inspired of God it must be granted that the Scripture may be proued so to be by the Scripture it selfe For these sentences All Scripture is giuen by inspiration Holy men spake as they were moued by the holy Ghost and such like places could not proue so much as in generall that any bookes at all whether it were these that we vse or no are diuine Scripture if themselues were not diuine I say they could not proue it truly and effectually they might say it but they could not proue it because that which shall proue it must it selfe first be a diuine testimonie Secondly prouing some diuine Scripture to be and to be inspired they proue this that we vse to be such because they so mention the Scripture they speake of that it appeares to be this that we vse and it is agreed vpon of all hands that there is no scripture but this and therefore speaking of some scripture they speake of this This is my argument That Scripture whereof the sentences alledged speake is proued thereby to be diuine But the sentences alledged speake of the same Scripture that we vse For the Church hath alwayes vnderstood it so The sentences therefore alledged proue this Scripture that we vse to be diuine And so my aduersaries demaund is satisfied I enquire not onely how it is proued by Scripture that there is some diuine Scripture which is inspired by God but that these bookes in particular are that Scripture For if it giue any testimonie at all to any Scripture at all it is to these bookes in particular which are now vsed in that it describes these bookes neither are there or haue there bene any other nor dares the Church of Rome it selfe hitherto canonize any other howsoeuer some therein think it may 2 To this my aduersarie replies that before these sentences can sufficiently proue the Scripture to be diuine they must themselues be supposed to be diuine which cannot be proued by themselues if Tradition be excluded I answered this e Digr 12. in my Booke whereto he hath replied neuer a word but stands dumbe and offers the Reader that which I answered in stead of a Reply to my answer neuerthelesse I answer againe that all places in the Scripture which affirme the Scripture to be Gods word are proued to be Gods word by themselues and their owne light and not by Tradition or Church-authoritie which is but the ministerie whereby God reueales the proofe to vs and it selfe is iudged by the Scripture For if the Church-authoritie make them to be canonicall and diuine * For that is it properly that the Papists say Bellar. Stapl. Grego to vs then it is either by adding truth diuinitie authoritie to them which they had not before in themselues by diuine inspiration or onely by declaring and reuealing to vs that truth diuinitie and authoritie which they haue immediatly from God of themselues before the Church approued them that we might see and confesse it The former our aduersaries will not say or if they will it is Atheisme worse then blasphemie for so all our faith and the highest reason mouing vs to beleeue should not be diuine reuelation but humane authoritie and the Scripture which of it selfe had no truth or diuine inspiration should be canonized by men If the latter which our aduersaries dare not denie then who sees not that they proue themselues and in themselues haue diuine authoritie immediatly from God the Church-authoritie in approuing them being nothing else but bare ministerie in respect of the Scripture though in regard of vs it be authoritie in helping vs to see that which is in themselues When the King stampes coine and signes it with his image and superscription he puts that valew and currentnesse into it that was not there before Thus a small peece of copper of it selfe originally not worth a penie may be made worth sixe pence Thus the Church authorizes not the Scripture Stapleton f Staplet relect pag. 505. in explicat art sayes The Church approues not the Scripture the first way by making it sacred diuine for this approbation it hath onely from the holy Ghost the author thereof of whom alone it hath to be sacred and not humane nor the second way by making that through her iudgement it should be accepted for true and worthy credit because that which is in the Scripture is the diuine truth BY IT SELFE AND IS NOT MADE TRVE BY THE APPROBATION OF THE CHVRCH But the third way in that by the force of her approofe and iudgement they are accepted of the faithfull for sacred and diuine and infallible true And thus we beleeue these Scriptures to be Canonicall for the testimonie of the Church The King sends a commission vnder seale by a messenger this messenger giues no authoritie to the commission but is the Kings minister authorized to propound it to the subiects Thus the Church giues testimonie to the Scriptures that it is diuine and no otherwise and it selfe fetches this testimonie from the Scripture and all the authoritie thereof is lastly resolued into the testimonie of the Scripture 3 Next these Scriptures are proued to be diuine by their owne light shining and by their owne vertue shewing it selfe in them as sweetnesse is knowne by it owne taste and the Sunne seene by it owne light and as the Kings coine is knowne by his image vpon it and the fathers voice is knowne to his children by the sound and fashion thereof so are these Scriptures by the heauenly light image and sound inspired into them knowne to be the word of God The aduersaries against whom I deale haue here with Turks and Infidels debarred me from alledging Scripture to proue it selfe and therefore I will shew it otherwise Canus a Papist g Can. loc l. 2. c. 8. pag. 13.
1. d. 39. qu. vnic Ioh. Bassol 1. d. 38. Dom. Bann 1. part ou 14. art 13. pag. 450. God foresees all contingent effects to come in his owne determination of the causes thereof and therefore foreseeing the contingent operation of our will he determines it to the effect Secondly Else there should be two seuerall beginnings of one and the same effect in asmuch as mans will should begin to worke as soone as God and concurre to the effect willed as principally as God Thirdly The will of man is but Gods x Quid dubitamus fateri nos miseras creaturas esse instrumenta Dei cum Deo per Deum operari sicut instrumentum operatur cum artifice per artificem à quo mouetur excitatur applicatur ad agendum Fra Sylu. expl p. 35. instrument whereby God works his owne pleasure but euery one that vses an instrument mooues applies and determines it to his owne will Fourthly And it is a secondary and subordinate cause vnder the first cause which is God and exceedes not the measure of second causes but if it were not determined by the first cause it should be all one with the first cause it selfe for first and second causes differ in their eleuation the second being alway mooued to their effect by the first and in their operation reduced to the motion of the vniuersall cause which is God Fiftly therefore the Scripture saies y Ier. 10.23 The way of man is not in himselfe neither is it in man to direct his own steps but z God giues a new heart x Ier. 31.33 32 39. Ezech. 11.19 36.26 and puts a new spirit into men and takes away their stony heart and giues them a heart of flesh and puts his Spirit into them and causes them to walke in his statutes and to keepe and do them a 1. Cor. 12.16 He workes all things in all men b Ph. 2.13 He workes in vs both the will and the deed c Pro. 21.1 The Kings heart is in the hands of God and he turnes it whither soeuer it pleaseth him d Exod. 7 3. 9.12 1 6. Rom. 9.17 He stirres vp Pharao hardens his heart for he hath mercie on whom he wil whō he wil he hardens The meaning wherof e Can. loc l. 2. c. 4. ad 7. Tolet in Ioh. 12 annot 22. Perer. select disp in Exod. 11. disp 6. 8. our aduersaries grant to be that God hardens the wicked partly by forsaking them withholding his grace whereby they should be preserued from hardening partly by working many things within thē and about them whereupon they become hardened and so consequently determines their will f Minimè periculosum iudico si PERMISSIONI NON NIHIL ADDAMVS quod nec actio propriè Dei sit nec sola permissio Can loc p. 24. further then by bare permitting it so that it may truly be said that mans minde and will g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hom. Odyss Augustinus sententiam Homeri approbat Zum vv qq 3. p pag. 120. A. is such as it pleaseth God to giue him Whence I infer and so will end God is not mooued consequently by any thing which himselfe as a superior cause mooues and determines to the effect But God himselfe as a superiour cause mooues and determines the will of man to the effect or that which it wils whether good or ill Therefore God is not consequently mooued by the good or ill vse of the will of man Therefore the good vse of mans will foreseene mooued not God to elect him and the euill vse of mans will foreseene was not the cause that God reprobated him therefore God had no such antecedent will to saue the reprobate if they would by their freewill vse and receiue his grace aright Therefore Gods decree touching the saluation and reprobation of men is lastly and finally resolued into his owne pure will as into the first and highest cause thereof To the Reader WHatsoeuer followes in the Reply from this place to that wherewith I begin the next Chapter is but a continuance of the matter of Predestination transcribed out of Becanus his Enchiridion wherewith I haue nothing to do For albeit that which he quarrels in M. Caluine be no more then were easily defended and then many Schoolemen haue written long since yet I haue propounded to meddle with no more of the Booke then directly touches what I writ it being a taske for him that knowes not the price of time to stand answering euery thing that fals from a Seminarie especially when we plainely see them to be set a-worke onely with barking for I dare say themselues conceite no substance in their books to interrupt and detaine men from better duties then is the answering of their vnsauory writings farced with rudenesse and intemperance and vnworthy for their immodesty to beare the name of Christian Authors CHAP. XXVI 1. The properties of the rule of faith described 2. None follow priuate spirits more then our Aduersaries 3. How the rule must be vnpartiall and of Authority A. D. Pag. 173 Concerning the sixt Chapter hauing shewed in the former Chapter that Almighty God of his part hath prouided a meanes necessary and sufficient to the saluation of all sorts yea of all men and consequently that he hath prouided some rule and meanes sufficient to instruct men of all sorts in that one infallible entire faith which is necessary to saluation In this Chapter I did set downe certaine conditions of this rule and meanes by which men that seeke may be directed towards the finding of it My Aduersaries do not deny that the rule and meanes must in some sence haue these three properties which here I speake of For the first to wit infallibility M. White saith White pag. 10. that faith must be with full assurance and perswasion the which saith he we cannot obtaine vnlesse the rule giue it vs. Now it is certaine that the rule and meanes which here I speake of cannot giue infallible assurance if it selfe were not infallible and knowne or such as may bee knowne to be infallible For nothing can giue more then it selfe hath neither can it breed more certainety in our knowledge then it selfe is or may be knowne to haue For the second to wit easinesse to be knowne or vnderstood of all sorts M. Wootton interpreteth Wootton p. 74. that it must be such as may be knowne although with paines As for some paines I shall not gainesay For I did neuer dreame that one might attaine knowledge of matters of faith by onely dreaming as M. Wootton seemeth to interprete my meaning Onely I would not haue it so difficult or hard as that it should be morally impossible for any sort of men hauing sought found and attended to the rule and meanes without miraculous illumination or extraordinary and excessiue difficulty to vnderstand the determinate meaning of it In which M. White
faith or needfull to be followed And so from that place to pag. 57 I disputed that the Scripture ALONE is the rule of faith that is to say That rule which my Aduersary in his fourth ground had said God had prouided whereby euery man learned and vnlearned may sufficiently be instructed WHAT is to be holden for the true faith Now he complaines that the State is peruerted the question not being whether Scripture be the rule of faith but whether Scripture alone be the rule and meane ordained of God to breed all faith And he notes two points wherein it is peruerted First in that I so affirme and defend the Scripture to be the rule as if he and his sectaries excluded it from being the rule in any sort which he sayes they do not For they hold the Scripture as propounded by the Church to be part of it I answer that I knew well enough they confessed the Scripture to be part of the rule and the Diuine doctrine which is the whole rule to be some of it written But I knew also that they denied it to be the whole rule ioyning therewith vnwritten traditions and the Popes Decretals which they call Church authority I knew also they allowed it to be no part of the rule but as and in such sence as the Church of Rome should please to propound it and I saw his conclusion in termes denying the Scripture alone to be the rule whereby men may sufficiently be instructed WHAT the faith is therefore I disputed directly opposite to all this that the Scripture alone without traditions is the whole rule to shew vs WHAT is to be holden for faith and nothing but the Scripture this is close to the question For albeit he yeelds it to be the rule in a sort because as his Church propounds it it containes part of the rule yet he denies it to be that whole and entire rule that his conclusion inquires of and so is to be disputed against as well as if he denied it to be any part of the rule at all Againe he holds two things First affirmatiuely that the Scripture is one part of the rule then negatiuely that the Scripture alone is not all the rule Both these are contradictory to my assertion The Scripture alone is the rule My assertion therefore affirming what he denies and denying what he affirmes containes the true state of the question and his inuoluing the matter with all this cauilling tends onely to the couering of his doctrine the loathsome visage whereof he is ashamed should be seene 3 The second point wherein he sayes the question is peruerted is in that I take the rule of faith otherwise then he doth For whereas he by that word rule meanes such a rule as not onely is sufficient to REVEALE all diuine truths that are to be beleeued but also to BREED or produce in vs the faith whereby we beleeue them I he sayes vnderstand such a rule onely as is sufficient to reueale the diuine verities though it be not sufficient to breed in vs faith and assent thereunto And it is true that I vnderstand such a rule indeed the Church wherein I liue onely beleeuing the sufficiency of the Scripture to containe all the obiect of faith but not to enable vs to beleeue it or vnderstand it ordinarily without the ministry of the Church and other meanes But this peruerts not the question * The state of the question touching Scripture ALONâ— for about the meanes there is no question but the question is whether Scripture alone excluding all Church traditions and authority comprehend the whole obiect or matter of faith that is to say All that we are bound to know beleeue and doe for our saluation though it be granted that to breed or produce faith and knowledge of that which is in the Scripture the Ministry of the Church and the helpe of Gods Spirit and our owne industry must concurre For our Aduersaries deny this and hold their runagate traditions and Church authority to be necessary not onely for the expounding and confirming to vs that which is in the Scripture if any one chance to deny it or not to see it but for the supplying of infinite articles of faith which are no waies at all comprised in the Scripture but vpon the said authority are to be receiued as well as that which is reuealed in the Scripture The Iesuite speakes as if he thought his Church authority to consist more in breeding faith and leading men to beleeue what is written then in adding any thing to the measure of the diuine verities contained in the Scripture and indeed sometime there be of his side that will plainely say so He that writ the defence of the Censure a Def. of the Cens pag. 141. NOTE THIS and inquire whether all Papists will stand to it sayes it is to be noted that the question betweene vs and the Protestants is of EXPRESSE SCRIPTVRE ONELY and not of any far fet place which by interpretation may be applied to a controuersie For this contention began betweene vs vpon this occasion that when we alledged diuers weighty places and reasons out of the Scripture for proofe of inuocation of Saints praier for the dead Purgatory and some other controuersies our aduersaries reiected them for that they did not plainely and expresly decide the matter Whereupon came this question whether all matters of beleefe are plainely and expresly in Scripture or not which they affirme and we deny And this he sayes is is the true state of the question Gretser b Defens Bellar tom 1. l. 4. c. 4. p. 1598. sayes These things may be proued by Scripture but not sufficiently not effectually by Scripture alone without tradition but onely probably The which if my aduersary and his Church did hold constantly and in good earnest I would confesse I had peruerted the state of the question But they do not but hold many things belonging to faith to be wanting and no way at all neither openly nor expresly nor consequently contained in the Scripture Dominicus Bannes c D. Dann 22. Tho. p. 302. All things which pertaine to Catholicke faith are not contained in the Canonicall books either manifestly or obscurely nor all those things which Christ and his Apostles taught and ordained for the instructing of his Church and confirming of the faith were committed to the holy Scriptures and the contrary is open heresie Melchior Canus d Can. loc p. 151 There are many things belonging to the doctrine and faith of Christians which are contained in the sacred Scriptures neither manifestly nor obscurely Cardinall Hosius e Hos confess Polon p. 383. The greater part of the Gospell by a great deale is come to vs by tradition very little of it being written in the Scripture Peresius f Peres de tradit p. 4. Tradition is taken so that it is distinguisht against the doctrine which is found in the Canonicall bookes of the
apparant I yeelded not his conclusion in the whole sence but onely in a part For view my words The Ministerie of the Church is the ordinary meanes whereby we may learne the faith of Christ And no man can of himselfe attaine to the knowledge thereof but as the Church teaches him except it be in some extraordinary cases How will my Iesuite conclude froÌ„ hence that therefore I yeeld his conclusion as it is vnderstood the second way which way I haue shewed immediately before both his Church and himselfe vnderstand it Doth he that saies the kings Iustices are tâ—â— ordinary meanes whereby to learne the matter of ciuill obedience and that no subiect can ordinarily attaine to the knowledge of the law vnlesse some body publish it yeeld therfore that the law alone is not the rule of the said obedience and subiection prescribing the measure and qualitie thereof but the Iustices also and such as acquaint vs with the law are part of the rule yea the greater and more certaine part No man will say so when all men see the Magistrate to be but the executioner and minister of the law to teach publish and execute that which is in the law it selfe and the Booke of the law to containe the whole and entire obiect of obedience that no subiect is bound to any obedience or to the doing of any thing whatsoeuer the Magistrate might happen to impose vpon him but that onely which is contained in the law either expressely or thence to be gathered by true consequence And so my Iesuits vaunt of our yeelding and impertinent discourses relishes but of the Souldier that created him and his vaunting Order though his putting vs ouer to his other Catholicke Authors be scarse souldier-like but tastes more of the Creeple He vses this often and I confesse it is a good short cutte home-wardes if a man be empty but it sinkes him that vses it into the lowest bottome of contempt to giue the onset with conclusions and principles and then to maintaine them with boasting and ignorance If we were not well acquainted with this transparent cowardlinesse in our busiest Aduersaries it would leauen the most setled patience that is among vs. CHAP. XXVIII Touching our English translations of the Bible Their sinceritie and infalliblenesse 2. How the vnlearned know them to be sincere The new Translation lately set foorth by the Kings authority defended Momus in his humor 4. The subordination of means Pag. 179. A. D. § 1. That English translations of Scripture are not infallible concerning my first reason it is to be obserued that I do not deny the true Scriptures either in the originall or in the translation to be infallible but onely I proue the ordinary English translations which ordinarily Protestants call the Scriptures not to be infallible nor consequently to be Wootton pag. 68. as some make them the onely sufficient rule and means to breed faith M. Wootton asketh what English Protestant euer affirmed that they were infallible or tooke them for the rule To this I reply first that I could wish these his questions could not be answered with affirming that many thousand poore soules that haue and can onely reade English Bibles think the texts which they reade in theÌ„ to be Gods word and consequently the infallible truth and so take them for a rule of their faith that wbat they finde written there they most firmly beleeue what they finde not there they will not beleeue Secondly if the English translation be not accounted infallible nor the rule of faith by some Protestants I aske first what M. White meaneth to say White pag. 25. the Scripture translated into English is infallibly true in respect of the matter Secondly I aske what infallible rule and meanes haue at least vnlearned Protestants whereupon to build their faith It cannot be said that the truth of the reuealed doctrine in it selfe is their rule For this is the thing that should be beleeued and is not the rule and meanes whereby men are to be directed to attain beliefe The first Hebrew or Greeke originall text immediatly written by the holy writers cannot be their rule For first where is this to be found or how shall they be sure if they find it that it is the very authenticall or originall and not a transumpt Or if a transumpt may also serue so that it be incorrupt how shall they know infallibly secluding Church-authoritie that that copie which they haue is incorrupt when they neuer saw the first authenticall nor euer did or are able to compare them together Finally suppose they had a copie well agreeing with the originall what nearer were they attaining faith by it since they cannot vnderstand it White pag. 25. M White is so farre from disclaiming from English translations as M. Wotton doth that he will needs defend them to be infallible in the matter contained in them in so much that with a bold brazen face he saith Martin cannot giue one instance of the sence corrupted Pag. 26. And although he seeme to leaue himselfe a starting hole by saying that he doth not defend tbis or that mans edition but the Scriptures wel and faithfully translated accounting it sufficient that there be some translations faithfull and agreeing with the originall in the Church Ibid. yet presently after he taketh vpon him to defend the varieties of translations saying that this varietie hath bene in words and stile and not in any materiall point of the sence Now how false this bold and blind answer is the Reader may easily perceiue if he will reade not onely M. Gregory Martins discouerie but also M. Reynolds refutation of M. Whitaker and the Grounds of the new Religion which bookes neither are or can so be answered by M. Fulke and his fellow Protestants to helpe him but still it wil be iustified and made plaine that not onely one but many instances may be giuen of the sence corrupted The which is not onely proued by our Diuines but also confessed by Protestants themselues One of which said Broughtons epistle to the Lords of the Councell Carlile in his booke that Christ went not downe into hell that the English Bible was full of errors And what errors Onely in stile or words Nay M. Carlile saith that our English Translators in many places detort the Scriptures from the right sence and that they haue corrupted and depraued the sence obscured the truth deceiued the ignorant Which their confession if it were not also acknowledged for truth by others what need were there after so many varieties of translations that with so much cost care and scandal to the Protestant cause they must needs haue order by publik authority to coine a new translatioÌ„ of the Bible different froÌ„ all English translatioÌ„s that haue bin before the which also when it cometh forth will not be of infallible authoritie more then the former neither can at least vnlearned men be infallibly assured that it
is one thing it selfe that is beleeued the fore to be grounded on some superior authoritie Can loc l. ◠§. 8. D Weston layes the resolution of faith thus Our faith of any mystery is resolued into a former act wherby the Scripture containing this mystery is beleeued to be the word of God and this also is resolued into a former act as the cause thereof that the Church cannot erre Which we beleeue for the signes and notes which shew it to be a true Church Thus resoluing all diuine faith into humane motiues de Tripl offic c. 3. pag. 143. aduersaries themselues as I haue often shewed after all authoritie of Fathers Church Councels Pope and all do rest and resolue their faith vpon the second proposition of this Syllogisme I am taught this by Scripture our aduersaries denie not but Fathers Councels Popes may erre or if they cannot yet the authoritie of these things is not the reason of our faith for then faith should be humane but the inward authoritie of the Scripture and the Spirit of God If it be demanded how the Protestants can giue infallible assurance to others that they vnderstand the Scripture aright I answer that the same question is to be made to the Papists and both they and we must answer that vnlesse God illuminate their hearts we can giue no assurance neither they by the Church nor we by the Scripture but such as haue this illumination do see manifestly the truth of the things they haue beleeued But Luther he sayes held against the vniuersall Catholicke Church I answer and let all Papists well consider of it that they must proue this which I call the Papacie to be the vniuersall Catholicke Church afore they can say Luther was deceiued That they cannot proue but by the Scripture in which triall Luther shall retire to the Scripture no faster then themselues and then they may be deceiued as well as Luther in as much vnlesse they will runne in a round as all their other authoritie proofes and motiues must be tried by the Scriptures OVER WHICH GOD HATH SET NO VISIBLE IVDGE IN THIS WORLD THAT CAN INFALLIBLY CONVINCE AND PERSWADE ALL MEN. I wil make this plaine by laying downe the maner how Luther and how a Papist assures himselfe Luther and the Protestants for their part beleeue for example that a man is iustified by faith onely because the Scripture in plaine places excluding workes and proposing Gods free grace in Christ and maintaining the sole merits of Christ applied by faith debarres euery thing from iustifying that is in our selues and so teaches expresly that we are iustified onely by faith in Christ The Papists hold the contrary alledging the Church and the Pope whose doctrine they say it is that we are iustified by our workes But being demanded how we know infallibly that the Church or the Pope hath not erred in holding so they grant they may erre and answer that yet they are known not to erre in this point by the Scriptures which Scripture and the true sence thereof is knowne and beleeued for it selfe Here they are fallen into the same issue that the Protestants are I am taught this by the Scripture Now if they reply that we are infallibly assured the Scripture is meant as we say because the Church expounds it so who sees not that they make a circle thus to beleeue the Church first because of the Scripture and then againe to beleeue the Scripture because of the Church Their maine resolution therfore is the euidence and authoritie of the Scripture perswading them both that the doctrine is true and that the Church which teaches it is the true Church And so they lie open to the same cauils that are made against the Protestāts Luther in vnderstanding the Scripture may be deceiued so may they It is Luthers own cause so is this the Papists Luthers iudgment is to be suspected when he preferred himself before the iudgement of the Church The same say we to them They preferre their iudgement before the Church and all the Fathers in as much as we can shew the Church and Fathers to be against them and themselues professe that the Popes authoritie is aboue both Church and Fathers 2 Indeed if M. Luther had had a thousand Austins and Cyprians and other Fathers of the Church with one consent and plainly against him he had bin so much the more to be suspected for this is one maine thing that makes vs abhorre the present Roman Church because it prefers it selfe and the Popes determination before all the Doctors in the world but he neuer thought so nor said so His words are these in c Tom. 2. Wittemb pag 344. a booke that he writ against King Henry the 8. Lastly he produces the sayings of the Fathers for the establishing of the sacrifice of the Masse and sees my foolishnes who alone will be wiser then all other This is is it I say that by this my opinion is confirmed For this I said that these * His vnciuill speeches to the King himselfe afterward retracted Sleid. They are but a weak argumēt to discredit his reformation Lucifer Caralitanus his books against the Emperor Constantius are as bitter and violent If Luther offended against K. Harry the Iesuites and their supplies repay it to K. Iames and long since haue returned it with the interest to good Q. Elizabeth Thomisticall asses haue nothing to produce but a multitude of men and antique vse and then to him that brings the Scriptures to say Thou art the foolishest of all men that liue Art thou onely wise and then it must needs be so But to me who am the foolishest of all men it is sufficient that the most wise Henry can bring no Scripture against me nor answer that which is brought against him besides he is constrained to grant his Fathers haue often erred and his antique vse makes no article of faith in which it is lawfull but for the multitude of that Church to trust whereof he himselfe with his pardons is defender But against the saying of Fathers men Angels and diuels I oppose not ancient custome nor a multitude of men o This is that which the Fathers themselues aduise vnto when heresies haue long continued preuailed in the Church to flie to the Scriptures because the writings of the Fathers after the long continuance of heresie are in danger of corruption See Chrysost op imperf hom 49. sub init §. Tūo cum videritis abominationē Vincen. Lyrin cōmonit c. 39. but the word the Gospel of one eternal maiestie which themselues are constrained to allow wherein the Masse is euidently taught to be the signe and testament of God wherein he promises and by a signe certifies to vs his grace For this worke and word of God is not in our power here I set my foote here I sit here I abide here I glorie here I triumph here I insult ouer Papists Thomists Sophisters and
say touching the inuisiblenesse of the Church 2 Their doctrine touching the time of Antichrists reigne 3 And the state of the Militant Church at some times 4 Arguments for the perpetuall visiblenesse of the Church answered 5 In whom the true Church consisted before Luthers times Pag. 242. A. D. For declaration of the truth Note first that although the Church of Christ at the beginning and infancy of it were little like a mustard seed Matthew 13. vers 31. Apoc. 20.1.4 Apoc. 20.1.4 August l. de ciuit cap. 11. and about the very end for the short reigne of Antichrist shall be much decaied both in the number of professors and the visiblenesse of the outward state of it as all things commonly are little in their beginning and do decay towards their end yet for all ages betwixt these two times as it did at first grow and increase and spread it selfe ouer the world notwithstanding the wonderfull opposition made against it by persecutions heresies schismes and sinfull liues of Christians so it is described in Scripture to be still a great multitude spread ouer the world August de vnit eccl as S. Augustine proueth at large against the Donatistes the which proofes of S. Augustine were nought worth if it might be answered as the Donatistes were forced to answer that the Church after a time did perish out of all nations White p. 87. or as M. White seemeth ready to answer that it came to be in all nations a small number For which imaginary smalnesse of the number betwixt the first beginning and the latter ending especially for so long time as Protestants are forced to plead inuisibility of their Church M. White will neuer be able to shew any Prophesie of Scripture sufficient to oppose against S. Austines proofes more then the Donatistes could for the Church her perishing out of all nations 1 HE grants the Church at the beginning and toward the end thereof may be like a little mustard seed and much decaied both in the number of Professors and in the visiblenesse of the outward state of it Hence it followes that it is true we say the Church sometimes is obscured and not alwaies so frequent and illustrious for when the externall state thereof consisting in the publicke administration of the word Sacraments and Ecclesiasticall discipline and in the profession of the faith begins to be corrupted in any high degree and the most and the greatest become the corruptest then it must also be saied that it is obscured and hidden from the world Hence it followes secondly that these assertions of our aduersaries the visible Church neuer failes and this God hath at all times a Church consisting not of a few people but a great multitude as conspicuous as any earthly kingdome and this the Church is visible and such as may be clearely seene and cannot be hidden are all false if they be meant of the purest part of the Church For to be decaied in such sense as the Repliar * If he wil confesse that which is granted by Saplet relect p. 41. §. Ecclesia quoad bene esse Grego Valent tom 3. p. 145. §. Animaduerti debet non sic accipiendum quod dicimus must confesse howsoeuer here to conceale the truth he speake reseruedly and to consist of a great multitude as conspicuous as any earthly kingdome cannot stand together forsomuch as the one is the corruption of the other Whence it followes thirdly that the true teaching and ministry of the Church is not alwaie so open and easie to be discerned as the Repliar saies all ouer his Booke for this teaching followes the state of the Church which being conspicuous the teaching also is conspicuous but the state of the Church being poisoned and ouer-whelmed with heresie the teaching must needes be hard to discerne and lesse conspicuous then the Scriptures 2 Secondly he notes that howsoeuer the Church may at the beginning be little and toward the ende for p That the raigne of Antichrist is so short he hath no assurance among his own writers diuers whereof say the contrary the short reigne of Antichrist be much decaied both in the number of Professors and visiblenesse of the outward state yet for all ages betwixt the beginning and the end it shall be a great multitude as S. Austine proues Whereto I answer graunting that many times the Church is and hath bene as large and visible as S. Austine saies and that we do not imagine it to be so small and obscured at all times betweene the beginning and the ende but onely at some times as for example in the 13. and 14. hundred yeares neither is there a word in all S. Austine whereby it may appeare his iudgement is against vs. That which the Iesuit thought good to alleadge I q §. 23. n 3. answered in THE WAY whereto it seemes he hath nothing to reply And graunting that it may be as obscure as we say in the time of Antichrist he were as good yeeld vp his cause for if his owne D.D. be not deceaued the time of Antichrist is not so short as he dreames our Iesuites though very waueringly indeed allow him but 3. yeares and a halfe But what saies r Indic de Apocal Antichr sub fin being a Preface before his translation of Arethas vpon the Apocal. in Oecumen O hers also allow Antichrist a longer time then 3. yeares and a halfe Quantum vero temporis in augenda stabiliendaque Monarchia ponere debeat non mihi constat quia neque ex praedictis locis satis colligitur neque videtur admodum verisimile breui tempore trium annorum cum dimidio haec omnia esse perfecturum Fra. Suar. tom 2. p. 641. defens fid Cathol l. 5. c 9. Quam diu simpliciter regnaturus sit Antichristus à nullo quod ego sciam traditur nulli opinor mortalium fuisse compertum Perer. in Dan. l. 15. in c. 12. p 730. and so others who thinke the height of his reigne shall containe onely 3. yeares and a halfe but the rest of his time much more Hentenius Others otherwise expound A TIME AND TIMES AND HALFE A TIME For it is not possible that in so small a time he should possesse so many kingdomes and prouinces If therefore M. White affirme the Church in regard of the sincerest faith at sometimes comes to be but a small number he affirmes nothing but what the Iesuite himselfe is inforced to yeeld at least in the times of Antichrist Here then is an issue betweene vs. The Church may be inuisible as the Protestants hold in the time of the reigne of Antichrist But the time of the Popes being for example in the 13. and 14. age was a part of the time of the reigne of Antichrist The Church therefore might be inuisible for the time of the Popes being in the 13. and 14. age If my aduersarie mislike the conclusion he must deny the minor
affirme that the hatred of the Romish faith brought Castalion or Nenser or Aleman to that which they did The like is reported by x Hasenmull hist Iesuit c. 11. Hasenmuller one that liued among the Iesuites and * Historiā hanc quam bona fide recitani sicuti eam audiui vidi dum rebus Iesuitarum interfui saw the things that he reports of diuers Iesuites falling into the like terrible desperation among whom one despairing like Spira because he had renounced the truth to become a Papist complained that he was damned for the same calling vpon them them that stood by to kill him because he felt nothing in himselfe but hel the torture of diuels tormenting him for putting confidence in Masses images crosses beades suffrages the merits of Saints and such like The dotage of Postellus who sometime was so famous among our aduersaries and his impiety about the Messias is inferior to none of these But because Acosta the Iesuite hath written a memorable example of one liuing in Peru I will translate the History and so let the Repliar himselfe say if his owne religion breed not Iudaisme Turcisme doubtings and desperation as grosse as euer Ochin or any other fell into CHAP XLI A Narration of a Popish Doctor and professor of diuinity in the Church of Rome trāslated out of Acosta de Temp. nouiss l. 2. c. 11. Maiol dies canicul tom 2. pag. 89. and inserted for answer to that wherewith the Iesuite reproches our Church in the last words of his precedent Reply THere was in the kingdome of Peru a man at that time greatly esteemed a learned Diuine and a professor of diuinitie who a long time together was accounted Catholick and godly and almost the oracle of all this part of the world This man was so linked in familiarity with a certaine woman who boasted of herselfe that she was taught great mysteries by an Angell and like another Philumena or Maximilla whom Montanus followed was rapt out of her selfe or at least seemed so to be that he often vsed to consult with her about the greatest questions in diuinity In all things he esteemed her as an Oracle reporting her to be full of great reuelations and to be dearely beloued of God who otherwise was but a base creature and of small sense vnlesse it were to deuise lyes Whether therefore she were possessed by the Diuell which is most likely or whether she counterfetted the matter when she fell into her extasie as many wise men thought this Diuine hearing great and strange things that in her exstasies she would speake of him and conceauing that farre greater would afterward be spoken addicted himselfe thereupon to be her disciple whose ghostly father indeed himselfe was The man at length was so transported that he would assay to worke miracles and perswaded himselfe that he did worke them when no signe of any miracle appeared for which cause as also for receauing from this woman certaine propositions contrary to the sense of the Catholike Church he was apprehended by the iudges of the most holy Inquisition where by the space of fiue yeares he was heard and examined and at last detected to be the proudest and maddest man that liued He would auouch that he had an Angell sent from God of whom he learned whatsoeuer he pleased and that he had immediate conference and familiarity with God and fell into those toyes that no man in his right wits would vtter yet all this while his vnderstanding as concerning his brains was so sound that my owne is no sounder He would therefore say he should be a King and in very good earnest tell how he should be Pope and that the Apostolicke Sea should be translated into these kingdomes that God had giuen him holinesse aboue the Angels and beyond all the Apostles yea offered him the Hypostaticall vnion but he would not receiue it That he was giuen to be the redeemer of the world in regard of the efficacie whereas Christ was the redeemer but in regard of sufficiencie That all Ecclesiasticall states should be abrogated and he would giue new lawes that should be plaine and easie whereby the single life of the Cleargie should be taken away and many wiues allowed and the necessitie of shrift be abrogated These and many such like things he affirmed with such confidence and earnestnes that we were amazed to see a man imagining these things yet not to be out of his wits At the last when we had a long time considered his doings and condemned aboue 120 propositions of his that were hereticall and dissonant from the doctrine of the Church we were commanded to dispute with him to see if we could bring him backe to a right mind and the true faith To which purpose the Iudges and the Bishop of Quita with others of vs met together where the man being brought in before vs he maintained his cause with that libertie and eloquence of tongue that I my selfe to this day am astonished to think that euer a mans mind should be filled with that pride He professed his doctrine to be such that it could not be demonstrated but by the Scriptures and miracles being farre beyond all humane reasō that by the testimonies of the Scripture he had proued his matter far more manifestly effectually then S. Paul had proued Christ to be the true Messias and that he had wrought such and so many miracles that the resurrection of Christ was no greater miracle for he said that he had bin dead and was risen again and by euident testimonie had shewed the same And whereas he had no book but had his very Breuiarie taken from him yet he would rehearse the Scriptures without book such and so long places out of the Prophets the Reuelation the Psalmes and other parts that his memorie was admirable but then he so applied or allegorized them to his conceit that it would haue made any either to haue laughed or wept Finally if we would handle the matter by miracles he would presently he said shew them These things he spake so as if he had taken vs for mad men or had bin mad himselfe He told vs that it was reuealed vnto him how Don Iohn of Austrich was ouercome in a fight at sea by the Turk and that K. Philip had almost lost his kingdome of Spaine and that they were in hand at Rome with a Councell for the deposing of the present Pope and the creating of a new Which things he said he would tell vs that we knowing them by certaine intelligence might perceiue they came to him by diuine reuelation The which things being most false yet he auouched them as matters that we had certainly knowne At the last when in two daies conference with him we could do no good according to the maner of Spaine we brought him with others to the publick spectacle of the people where looking vp to heauen and expecting fire that from thence
AND IN THE WRITINGS OF THESE MEN TOVCHING THE SCRIPTVRES SACRAMENTS CHVRCH POPE COVNCELS TRANSVBSTANTIATION IMAGES INVOCATION OF SAINTS IVSTIFICATION GOOD WORKS c. WAS THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHVRCH AND PROFESSED BY THE BISHOPS OF ROME FATHERS AND COVNCELS EXPRESSED IN THE FIRST 800 YEARES OF THIS CATALOGVE this is our obiection whereto the Replier answers that he can retort it more strongly against the Protestants c. But this is but wind and so let it passe and come we forward to the substance of his answer CHAP. XLIII 1. Whatsoeuer the Fathers of the Primitiue Church beleeued is expressed in their bookes 2. The Replier is driuen to say they held much of his religion onely implicitely What implicite faith is according to the Papists The death of Zeuxis The Fathers write that which cannot stand with Papistrie Pag. â—67 A. D. Secondly I answer that to say there be diuers points held by vs whereof no mention is made in those ancient Fathers is no good argument to proue that which we hold was not holden by them For this is Argumentum ab authoritate negatiua which argument is of no force to proue this point vnles it be first proued that those Fathers held nothing explicitè or implicitè which is not expresly to be fouÌ„d in their writings But this my aduersaries will neuer be able to proue Now on the contrary side we can shew good reasons or at least probable presumptions sufficient to proue first that they held more then is expressed in their writings Secondly that they held explicitè or implicitè the same in all points of doctrine which we hold First I say we haue reason to thinke that they held more then is expressed in their writings because since ordinarily the writings of these Fathers were not by them set out of purpose to expresse in particular euery thing that they held implicitè or explicitè concerning all matters of faith but rather were written vpon some speciall occasion it is to be thought that their writings contain only some parts of the doctrine to wit so much of it as was that requisite to be written vpon that special occasion The which is confirmed euen by experience of these our times in which although learned men do ordinarily set downe more expresly in Catechismes bookes of controuersies c what the Catholik faith is in diuers points then formerly it hath bin set downe as they haue more occasion by reason of more heresies daily arising then learned men of former ages when those heresies were not haue had Yet no learned man now adaies writeth euery thing which explicitè or implicitè he beleeueth to be the Catholick faith For euery Catholicke man beleeueth explicitè or implicitè all that is contained in Scriptures and traditions in that he beleeueth whatsoeuer was reuealed by God to the Apostles deliuered by them in word or writing to the Catholicke Church and which the Church in Scriptures and vnwritten traditions propoundeth and deliuereth to vs diuers particulars whereof are not necessary to be expresly knowne to or written by any particular learned man of any age but are alwaies preserued at least in the implicite or infolded faith of the Church the which infolded faith of the Church may and shall be vnfolded the holy Ghost still assisting and suggesting all the aforesaid reuealed truth as necessitie shall require that the truth should be in any point expresly declared which necessitie chiefly is when some new heresie ariseth oppugning particularly the truth of that point 1 HEre he sayes the Fathers named in his Catalogue might hold what the church of Rome holds though there be no mentioÌ„ therof in their writings because they might hold that which is not expresly in their writings We had thought vntil now that this had bin a plain demonstration The ancient Fathers in all their writings make no mention of diuers points of the Popish religion Ergo they held them not Or thus What religion the Fathers held that they mention in their writings But the Popish religion they mention not in their writings Ergo they held not the Popish religion But he hauing good experience that the second proposition is true denies the first and will shew either by good reasons or probable presumptions that they held more then they mention and expresse in their bookes Wherein at once he hath destroyed his Catalogue and laid his religion open to the scorne of women and children For if the Fathers in all their writings handled nothing but the cause of religion teaching expounding and defending it against Iewes Gentiles hereticks schismatickes whereby they could not but mention what they held and yet neuer mentioned diuers points of Poperie it is plaine they neuer held them But the Iesuite sayes this is Argumentum ab authoritate negatiua which is not good they might hold either explicitè or implicitè that which they haue not expressed Wherein you must marke his tergiuersation For to shew a visible Church in all ages professing openly his Romane faith that all men may see it he tenders this catalogue But when we bid him proue that the Fathers of the first 600 or 800 yeares beleeued and professed that part of his Romane faith which the Church of England reiects that it may appeare so to vs and we may see it he sayes he can shew good reasons and presumptions that they beleeued more then is expressed in their writings whereas he should shew by their WRITINGS that they held and beleeued as the Romish Church now doth because it is impossible to shew what they held but by their writings and himselfe sayes in another place We cannot haue any certaintie of things past but by the writings of those times And if he will haue his Church to be so visible in the Fathers time and those Fathers to be so eminent members thereof good reason men see it yet see it they cannot by presumptions but by their writings 2 But he sayes We haue reason to thinke that they held more then expressed in their writings forsomuch as no man writes euery thing which explicitè or implicitè he beleeues I answer though it be granted that both they and we in all our writings may omit some things not belonging to faith or religion yet many articles of faith such as our aduersaries say theirs are the deniall whereof they call schisme and damnable herersie and persecute with fire sword and gun-powder cannot but be expressed for so much as such articles are simply needfull vnto saluation and are the grounds and conclusions of all theologicall writing and discourse Secondly it is impertinent to the obiection which denies the Fathers of the first 600 yeares to haue done that which the Catalogue sayes they did professed VISIBLY as the Romane Church now doth which obiection is not satisfied by saying they might explicitè or implicitè professe that they neuer writ because no man writes all he beleeues but by shewing in their writings this
of him of no deepe iudgement but giuen to beleeue reports for he was not so carefull to attend what was written by the Apostles as to gather together the reports and traditions of such as had bene conuersant with the Apostles and Apostolicall men he was deceiued thereby himselfe and deceiued many that followed him That it is no maruell if some among the Fathers taking that course vented in their bookes that which is not so sound and vnawares writ some things which the Church of Rome declining into heresie and following Antichrist afterward would lay hold on to maintaine their errors Thus Origen Tertullian Lucifer Lactantius Hilary Cyprian and all the Fathers till it come to good S. Austin the most orthodoxall of all the Fathers Greeke or Latine partly seduced by reports and tradition as was Papias partly transported by the subtilty and learning of Philosophers and heretickes that liued euery where among them and partly * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Basil pag. 314. ouercharged with zeale or passion in contending against them deliuered diuers things that were not the vniforme doctrine of the Church whereof some perhaps may belong to the now errors of the Church of Rome but that is not much and what can be shewed concernes but the smaller points of Popery wherein there is no great moment and euen in such aduantages they are vnhappy that haue nothing in the Fathers to pleasure them but the parings of their nails and excrements of their writings And if our aduersaries be impatient hereat the field is open let the resolutest among them chuse any point determined against vs in the new creed of the Trent Councell and shew out of his Coccius or whence he will this vnanime consent of the Fathers for it and he shall be answered in such sort that it shall euidently appeare there in no such matter 3 His third argument is the testimony of his ProtestaÌ„t apology such another author as Coccius was a Seminary Priest yet liuing and of the same stamp the Repliar himselfe is Which brings to my mind a iest that I read in Cyrill of the Emperor Iulian a Mâ— certe sanauit saepe Aesculapius aegrotantem subministrans remedia horum testis est Iupiter cont Iulia. l. 7. p. 1â—2 Aesculapius verily hath often cured me when I haue bene sicke and I call Iupiter to witnesse He brings his testimony to proue the deity of Aesculapius who himselfe was no lesse an idoll then Aesculapius as my Repliar alledges Coccius and Briarly whose writings are mistrusted no lesse then his owne Reply That which he hath said is answered by b Protest App. p. 1. inde the D. of Winch. to whose booke I refer the Repliar as he refers me to Briarly That the first conuersion of English men was not By Austin I c §. 49. shewed in THE WAY and whether Gregory professed the faith now holden in Rome the Reader may see in the D. of Winch. booke His holding of some things superstitiously which the Church of Rome hath entertained proues not that he professed the same faith the Church of Rome now doth because the faith of the said Church comprehends much more then he held and what he held is now otherwise expounded and applied then by him it was For example in the matter of images he was superstitious d Lib 7 ep 54. Secundino sub sin and would haue them vsed to put vs in minde and to be lay mens bookes but e L. 9. ep 9. in no wise to be worshipped It is reported to me that being inflamed with inconsiderate zeale you haue broken in peeces the images of Saints with this excuse that they ought not to be worshipped And verily we do altogether commend you in that you forbad them TO BE WORSHIPT but we reproue you for breaking them for it is one thing to ADORE a picture and another thing by the historie of a picture TO LEARNE what is to be adored For what writing performes to them that can reade the same doth a picture to idiots beholding it now that which was placed in Churches NOT TO BE ADORED but ONELY to instruct the ignorant should not haue bene broken Now f Tho. 3. part q. 25. art 3 Capre ol 3. d. 9. q. vnic ad 1. concl 2. imagines porto Christi Deiparae virginis aliorum sanctorum in templis retinendas eisque debitum honorem venerationem impertiendam per imagines quas oscul â—mur coram quibus caput a perimus procumbimus Christum adoramus sanctos quorum illae similitudinem gerunt veneramur conc Trid. sess vlt. vbi verbum Adoramus Latriam verbum autem Veneramur duliâ—m significare videtur Suar. tom 1. d. 54. â— 4. imagines Christi sanctoruÌ„ venerandae sunt non solum per accidents vel impropriè ita vt ipsae termineÌ„t vâ—nerationem vt in se considerantuâ— non sulum vt vicem gerunt exemplaris Bell. de imag c. 21. the faith professed by our aduersaries is that they are to be worshipt and adored with diuine honour and properly which Gregory condemned So likewise g Moral l. 4. c. 42. l. 18. c. 24. l. 25. c. 1. his wordes are alleadged for the merite of workes yet the condignity thereof now maintained and wherein merite properly consisteth he neuer dreamt of but saies plainely h Explan in Psal poemt p. 7. v. Auditam fac mihi the contrary If that happinesse of the Saints in heauen be Gods mercie and not obtained by merits where shall that be which is written And thou shalt reward euery man according to his workes If it be giuen according to workes how shall mercie be esteemed This is the obiection now marke his answer But it is one thing for God to render according to works and another thing to render for the works themselues For in that which is said According to works the quality it selfe of the works is vnderstood that the glorious reward shall be his whose good works shall appeare because vnto that blessed life wherein with God and of God we liue no labour can be equalized no works compared specially when the Apostle saies The sufferings of this life time are not condignely worthy of future glory which shall be reuealed in vs. it is certaine therefore that to whom he mercifully giues to worke well in this life to them he more mercifully giues that to them in eternall blessednesse an hundredfold fruite shall be rewarded This profession of Gregory is farre from that which a Before §. where M. Baius his doctrine is laied downe I haue shewed the Church of Rome now professes touching the merite of our works Secondly whereas our of Briarly he saies the Faith professed by Gregory and taught the English men by Austine at our first conuersion agreed for substance with the first faith whereto the Brittans were conuerted in the Apostles daies and was the same which vniuersally was professed We
bee in some points which formerly were held as points of faith rather then in the doctrine of the blessed Trinity and Incarnation is because these mysteries are more necessary to be expresly knowne of all sorts then some other points of faith are and consequently men are as they are bound more carefull to get expresse knowledge of them according to the knowne sence expositiō of the Church which Church also hath more expresly determined what is to be holden in these points then in some others which although necessary to be beleeued explicitè or implicitè are not so necessary to be expresly knowne of all sorts 1 IF it cannot be denied as the Repliar denies it not but that in the writings of particular men liuing in these latter ages in the Church of Rome and following the Papacy there be found diuers errors contrary to the faith of the ancient Fathers it must be granted that all such must be wiped out of the catalogue because a So the Reply in the former Chapter n. 1. which is p. 269. of his Reply by promise none are to stand there but onely such as kept the doctrine of the Fathers without innouation Which being done the last 600 yeares at the least will be blanke and the Repliar must seeke new names to furnish them for there is not a particular person named frō an 1000 to an 1600 in the catalogue which had not diuers errors cōtrary to the former faith of the Fathers which the Reader without more ado shall know by this that there is not a boke extant that they writ but our aduersaries at this day haue either purged or forbiddē it or else censured reiected diuers things written in it Which needed not if they had bene those succeeding Pastors which alway maintained the corps of Christian doctrine so grauely talked of a little before And that which the Repliar answers satisfies not the obiection For it is true The Catholicke Church builds not her faith vpon priuate Doctors opinions but the Romane Church which the Repliar contends for and whose succession he demonstrates in his catalogue consists in no other but such Doctors that held such priuate opinions and such people as followed them therein or else let him name if he can any one of his Doctors that held not such priuate opinions or any other Church of his that consisted not in these A man may easily see he can neuer winde himselfe out of this straight And let it be granted also that they were ready to renounce these opinions thus holden against the former faith and to submit themselues to the Church yet the former difficulty returns againe for whether they were thus ready or no yet they swarued from the faith of the Fathers no matter with what minde when the Repliar so confidently bills them in his catalogue for such as preserued the whole corps of the reuealed truth without innouation Thereby vndertaking to name such as in all things trod in the steps of the Fathers without any error that should need submission Againe where and in whom was this Church whereto they were so ready to submit themselues who should reforme them when themselues were the Church for example when Gregory the 7. that was Pope in the 10 age Eugenius the 3. and Boniface the 8. in the 12. Vrbanus 6. and Iohn 22. in the 13. Gregory 12. Iohn 23. Eugenius 4. in the 14. age by schisme error and heresie innouated the faith where was their submission to the Church how could it be when themselues were heads of the Church and how was it done when contrariwise they made opposition against all such as admonished them But the third thing he answers that those priuate D D. deliuer not their said opinions as points of faith is false because they are in such points as are now controuerted betweene vs and the Church of Rome which the Repliar I presume will allow to be no other but points of faith 2 This I had to say touching the obiection as the Repliar hath set it downe fraudulently and maimedly whereas if he had proposed it effectually as we obiected all his answer were impertinent For we say that not onely in particular mens writings are found many things contrary to the former faith of the Fathers but in the doctrine of the Church it selfe as it is practised and expounded by such as are deputed thereunto The which I demonstrated throughout my Booke in euery controuersie by alleadging the wordes of the chiefest and most eminēt writers in the Church of Rome expounding the doctrine holden in the said Church There being indeed very little of their religion but some or other among them so expound it and so teach the Church-meaning therein that it is easie to see the ancient faith to be innouated thereby And I care not though my aduersary begin his answer with a little confidence It seemes M. White hath with great paines raked together all the riffe raffe and odde opinions and spent his time in seeking the sinkes and sweeping together odde sentences of some Catholicke authors c. For his leane and lancke cause had neede of bombast but whosoeuer shall enquire what M. White alleadged shall well perceaue the Popish D D. whom he hath raked together to be the eminentest men that were in the Church of Rome and their doctrine and opinions cited so farre as I haue refused it to be riffe raffe indeed and such as lies in sinkes and sweepings but yet such riffe raffe as the Romish Church it selfe now turned into a sinke of all filthy heresie pestered with the sweepings of all the false doctrine and errors of old heretickes maintaines and offers to the world for sound religion as I haue shewed in the beginning of this booke where the speech of Mic. Bayus the onely instance that the Repliar thought good to make of my charging his Church with priuate Doctors opinions which he will not deny to be part of the riffe raffe and sweepings here mentioned is proued to containe no other matter then is generally holden by others and to be the doctrine of the Church of Rome as certainely as any other that himselfe can assigne to be the doctrine 3 This therefore is it I say that the errors obiected to the Doctors and Schoolemen of the Church of Rome and the manifold absurdities which I haue obserued in them alleadging their wordes in my Booke are a sufficient argument to proue the Church of Rome wherein they liued and whose Pastors they were to hold contrary to the Fathers and to be departed from the Apostolicke faith And all this furniture of wordes to the contrary is but a desperate shift to auoide the inconuenience that followes vpon it For first the vniuersall faith of the Catholicke Church is not discredited by the priuate opinions of particular Authors This I graunt and will yeeld my selfe to be both vaine and shallow witted if the things I haue alleadged out of Popish Authors be