after whiche sorte any meane man may bee counted learned This I am hable to prooue as true as I haue hithertoo I trust prooued you M. Dorman a lier in all you haue hitherto written and doubt nothing so to procéede with you to th ende of your leude lies laden in this your Lighter of false fables Wherfore Hosius deserueth the name of the Compilator rather than the author of that great booke wrytten against Brentius litle booke intitled Prolegomena for that he hath stolen all his authorities and reasons out of the sayde Pighius his Hierachie and Alphonsus de Haeresibus as all learned reading the sayde bookes shall most easely and plainly perceiue Yea and in compilyng them together it is iudged vpon probable coniectures by the style and poeticall phrases and verses vnmeete for Hosius age and vocation that as he hath borowed the mater of his bookes so hath he had the helpe of other in penning of the same and yet may he well call the bookes his owne as bought with his owne money and large rewardes bestowed vpon his style wrightes Concerninge his great vertue though I know not his life yet I iudge it a woorthie mattier for M. Dorman his commendation and him selfe woorthie of the court of Rome But I can saye litle herein onely this can I say that his neighbours dwelling néerer him than I dooe a good sorte of hundreth miles doo in printed bookes obiect to him that his Cardinalles hatte I would say head will be nowe and then ouerladen with Polonishe pottes I knowe not trulie or otherwise but as his neighbours doo say Dorman fol. 11. For gods sake good Christian readers for your ovvne soules sake and the loue that you beare therto geue eare to no suche sedicious voices hovve euer they be cloked vvith the name of Christ vvhiche the diuell then dooth most inculcat vvhen he vvould driue vs sonest frō him Novvell I trust that all good Christian readers for that loue that they beare to God who is the truthe will geue no eare to suche false fables as M. Dorman and other aduersaries of the truthe doo publishe in suche leude liynge bookes as this is and that vpon respect◠of the health of their soules they will flie farre from the blouddie Butcher of Rome who vsinge the cloke of Christes name onely denieth him in déede and placing in his place his piuishe pardons and other popishe pelfrie destroyeth as well Christian mens soules by his poysoned doctrine as he dooeth murder their bodies by the most cruell kinde of death that the Diuell his father and he can deuise And by the way note that to speake truely of a foraigne false Polonish Papiste is with M. Dorman accōpted sedition as though because he is a Cardinall he were therefore our laufull magistrate whiche wist I were true I would geue more reuerence to our Cardinalles in Paules churche then I hitherto haue done And sure I am they deserue for their Cardinalshippe as muche honour as dooeth Hosius yea and more too were false opiniō banished thinges truely as they are in déede weighed and estéemed For they yet according to their origine minister the sacraments visite the sicke as is the propre office of Curates to doo wherunto Christian princes once at the last I trust awaking will bring these personate visered Romaine parishe priestes from their vsurped worldly pompe and dominion and that the said Princes will reduce the Pope himselfe likewyse from his phantasied supremacie ouer the vniuersall churche to his peculiar cure of the churche of Rome And thus I lette this Hosius one of the greatest estates both for learnyng and vertue that this daye Christendome hath for so M. Dorman saieth for this time alone with his Cardinals scarlet hatte and his moile trapped according for his estate Dorman fol. 11. VVhat other thing did their forefathers Chore Dathan and Abyron in rebelling against Moses and Aaron the ministers of almightie God VVhat other persvvasion vsed they to the people vvhat other reason broughte they to allure from their obedience to rebellion from quiet rest to seditious vvandering vvithout a head the flocke of God then the very same that these miserable men of our time dooe Their apologie saieth that there nedeth here in the churche no head to gouerne it because Christe is alvvayes vvith it And did not those vvicked men in their rebellion against Moses and Aaron vse the same reason vvhen they tolde theim to their face Sufficiat vobis quia omnis multitudo sanctorum est in ipsis est dominus Let it suffice you that all the multitude is holy and they haue God present vvith them Cur eleuamini super populum domini And vvhy then take you vpon your selues the rule ouer the people of our lorde As vvho vvould saye hauyng no neede of any other ruler God being vvith them But as almyghty God vvas then emongest his people and vsed yet neuerthelesse the ministery of men so is Christe no doubt our sauiour novve present alvvayes vvith his churche and chiefe head and gouernour therof and yet gouerneth he the same by man And as Chore Dathan and Abiron be gone before svvalovved aliue by hell there to taste of those revvardes vvhiche for suche rebellious vvretches are prepared so must our Chore and his companions follovve their trace onlesse by their repentaunce they mollifie and assvvage the iust vvrath of God Novvell This historie is by many aduersaries alleaged against vs as vnlawfully rebellyng against the Pope specially by Cardinall Poole against kinge Henry the eight Concernyng the matter it selfe séeyng Chore Dathan and Abiron were so horribly punished for rebellion against Moses and Aaron and certein it is that of these twoo Aaron was the hyghe prieste and that yet Moses was his superiour it foloweth therefore that Moises to saye the prince of the people is aboue the bishop or highe priest whiche you can not abide or els to auoyde that mattier you must saye as you some where dooe that Moises was priest also whiche if it be true inforceth that there were two highe priestes at once ouer the people of God and so is your assertion of the supremacie of one onely high priest ouer the whole churche quite ouerthrowen For you say M. Dorman That you haue perceiued that God in that people in their lavve and priesthood shadovved out vnto vs like a cunning vvorkeman the vvhole forme and proportion of his churche Wherfore M. Dorman I praye you marre not gods proportion and forme of his churche but as you will néedes haue an Aaron or high priest in the saide churche so let vs also haue a Moises to be his superior in the same For which way soeuer you turne you sure I am that by the scriptures the title of priesthoode may as well apperteine to a christian Prince as it did to Moises so that there is no let nor lacke therin but that a christian Prince may as wel be superiour to
A REPROVFE written by Alexander Nowell of a booke entituled A PROVFE OF CERtayne Articles in Religion denied by M. Iuell set furth by Thomas Dorman Bachiler of Diuinitie and Imprinted at Antvverpe by Iohn Latius Anno. 1564 Prouerb 19. 4. Teflis falsus non erit impunitus qui loquitur mendacia non effugiet A false witnesse shall not remaine vnpunished and he that speaketh lyes shall not escape Set foorth and allowed according to the Queenes Maiesties Iniunctions Imprinted at London in Fléetestréete by Henry Wykes Anno Domini 1565. 13. die Iuly Cum Priuilegio ad imprimendum solum M. Dormans preface to D. Harding to whom he dedicated his booke and to the Reader are onely omitted for that nothing materiall was conteined in them Of all the rest so farre as I haue proceded not one woorde of M. Dormans either in the treatie it selfe or in his marginall notes is pretermitted There is nothing in this Impression altered from the first sauing onely that M. Dormans euyll handlyng of the auncient Doctours is in some places more at large explicated and that some part of M. Dormans treatie somewhere before diuided is now for more perspicuitie and plainenesse ioyned togeather THE PREFACE to the Reader THOVGH many simple soules may muche meruell at suche plentie of Englishe bookes as are of late so sodeinly sente vs from beyonde the seas by our countrey men there and bothe the authors themselues doo muche bragge therein and their fautors doo magnifie the same exceedingly yet the learned and discrete Readers accustomed rather to vveigh and iudge then to counte and numbre vvill easely consider that it is no harde mater for our aduersaries abouÌ„ding vvith leasure and multitude by common conference of many to patche vp a sorte of suche bookes in Englishe vvherein there is nothing to any purpose vvritten but that vvhiche vvas longe before vvritten in sundry latine bookes and readie to their handes to translate thereout into their Englishe bookes as they thought meete for their purpose so that they be but seely translators or borovvers of those bookes vvhose first authors they vvoulde appeare to be In the vvhiche poincte yet M. Stapleton translating Staphilus his longe Latin booke so longe before vvritten vvorde for vvoorde into Englishe and not dissembling the matter hath dealt therin more simplie theÌ„ the rest of his felovves haue doone By vvhose example the meanest men in learninge and vvitte amongst them all haue they onely a litle vnderâ—â—â—nding in the Latin tongue may lode vs vvith hauocke of bookes vvhen they list For it is vvell kuovven to all that be learned that nothing of vveight or to any purpose can novv nevvly be vvritten for the mainteinance of the Popes vsurped supremacy or any other their matters vvhiche they novv treate of but suche as hath been alreadie both vvritten and printed many yeres agoe in bookes as vvell of the Latin tongue as other languages and the same to be fully ansvvered vnto also to the satisfiynge of the Readers and daily vvinning of greate numbres of men and vvemen of all sortes and degrees from their popishe superstition vnto the truth of the Gospell such bookes as vvell of the one sorte as of th' other beinge rise in the handes of such as vnderstande to such decay of their saide superstition and successe of the truthe as to the vvorlde at this day cannot be vnknovven VVherefore our aduersaries mistrustinge that such kinde of vvriting or rather translating should not appeare vvoorthie to be accoÌ„pted the earnest dooing of any learned or vvise man haue doone vvittely ether to pretende that to be vvriten but lightly for a priuate friende or tvvaine and not mente to be printed but by persvvasion of friendes against their ovvne purpose suffered to come abroade vvhiche yet they in deede haue of longe by common conference elaborated at conuenient oportunitie to be put in printe to the publike patrocinie of their decaied and almost desperate cause or els to appoincte suche to beare the name as the authors of their bookes as may seeme moste meete therefore beinge accompted of all that knovv them for learninge and discretion the simplest men amongst them The same distrust of their ovvne dooinges or rather other mens dooinges set foorth for their ovvne may seeme a cause vvhy they directe their vvritinges either onely or chiefely against the Bishoppe of Sarisburie thinkinge that though they shall absolutely of the matters they take in hande be hable to say nothinge but that is alreadie saide and is likevvise or easely may be ansvvered yet may they seeme abundantly to say to him vvho chalengeth them that they can say nothinge at all and vvho also doth not tie them streightly to the triall of the scriptures the certaine and onely iudges in controuersies of ReligioÌ„ and vvherin in deede they can say nothing at all as shall hereafter be plainly proued but geueth them a moste large scope of all Doctours of the Churche vvho haue vvritten for the space of sixe hundreth yeres after our Sauiour Christes beinge here in earth and of all Councelles kept in the saide continuance of time Out of the vvhiche Doctors and Councelles for that the said Bishop hath aduouched that the best learned of all the aduersaries or all the aduersaries togeather are hable to bring nothing to any purpose for them he hath set all the aduersaries learned and vnlearned a vvoorke by coÌ„mon conference to deuise to say somthing for themselues and against him vvho affirmeth they can say nothing at all And yet fearing least that somthinge vvhiche they all are hable to say â–ª vvill fall out at the lengthe to proue nothinge to purpose they haue all like vvise men agreed that some fevv shall take vpon them to be the onely authors of that something vvhich they all can say least if that somethinge as it is deuised by them all so it should passe abroade in all their names and in time proue nothing at all all their estimation vvere lost at once And for more cautell suche some also to be named for the saide authors as haue not all learninge vvit nor discretion but men of a diuers profession vvho haue yet some fight in Diuinitie as studientes of the same for so they professe them selues VVherin they seeme to me to deale vvith vs as did the Phariseis vvith Christe vvho vvould not come them selues to dispute vvith him but sent their Disciples vvell instructed and furnished vvith all that themselues coulde possibly say to oppose him to th' ende that if their Disciples should obtaine the victorie the glory of their maisters vvho had suche excellent scholers might mount aboue the Moone But in case the scholers should be blanked it might for excuse yet be saide vvhat maruell if yonge men and yet but studientes in the Scriptures tooke a litle foyle But if the olde Doctors come themselues I vvarrant you this nue Prophet shal be othervvise handled And yet like vvise men they
aduentured not to come aftervvard theÌ„ selues assuredly knovving that all that they coulde say vvas already vttered by their scholers mouthes but yet trustinge that all men did not so knovv the same but that they might still mainteine vvith some their olde opinion and doctoral estimation And though one Doctor came and vvas handled as vvere the disciples yet vvas the rebuke but one mans but had he gotten the victorie the prayse had been coÌ„moÌ„ to them al. This is the effecte of S. Chrysostome his exposition vpon the sendinge of the disciples and the comminge of one Doctor vnto our Sauiour Christe VVhiche our aduersaries like men of muche discretion haue politikely folovved But all men that haue any vnderstanding at all may easely vnderstande that thei all vvoulde not commit the handlinge of matters of suche vveight and for the vvhiche they all as it vvere Pro aris focis for life and death as one might terme it doo fight to those fevv beinge very yonge men and of meane learninge and small experience in comparison and of a diuers studie and professing themselues vvhich they can not hide to be yonge studientes in diuinitie all men I say may vvell knovve that they vvoulde not committe suche matters to such men vvithout their common aduise and helpe ioyned vvith â—hem Seeinge that D. Hardinge himselfe do the plainely confesse that he in the vevv of his vvorke vsed the aduise of his learned friendes and that it is not credible that M. Rastell vvould let his booke lie by him foure yeres in a readinesse vvithout a suruey therof made by some of so many remayning with him at Louane VVherfore it is not harde for any of any vnderstandinge to vnderstande that this publishinge of their common deuise vnto the worlde in the names of a few of the simplest sorte among them is but a practise of policie For they perciuinge that they cannot write nor set abroade bookes worthy to be compted learned mens doynges doo prouide authors meete for suche bookes as they can set foorth VVhereby they shall not onely keepe their owne autoritie and cause without all daunger what so euer be iudged of these authors or their bookes but shall also mainteinâ—â—n the mindes of men a great opinion and expectatioÌ„ of themselues as Veteranes and olde Souldiours whose brunt when they shall come to the matter wil be as may seeme of greater force and violence than that it can possibly be resisted seing these yonge souldiours haue geuen such a fresh onset But I dare assure you that either these matters shal thus stil be handled by scholers and yonge studientes as they call theÌ„selues or if th' olde doctors dare adueÌ„ture which yet many doctors doubt of they shal handle the saide matters but scholerlike as hath that one Doctor already doone and I doubt not but it shall to the worlde be made most manifest that he hath so doone And to speake more particularly as it was no greate matter for D. Harding out of Pighius Gropperus Hosius and certaine others who haue intreated of the same matters in common places before him to haue translated into English what he thought meete for his purpose whiche he hath lately put abroade as his owne dooinges so might M. Dorman with farre lesse labour and better right also a greate deale out of his maister D. Hardinges booke so lately before written borow of authorities and reasons ready framed to his haÌ„des as much as liked him and so of a peece of his maisters booke conteining onely .iiij. articles of .xxvi. with greate ease make vs an other new booke as greate as is his maisters the ordre here and there being a litle transposed to obscure the matter and to make a show of new inuention and the stile somewhat floorished with M. Dormans railing rhetorike For they that doo know M. Dorman better than I doo marueiling of his dooinges in Diuinitie matters doo thinke that he hath all his learninge not of inheritance but by lâ—gacie supposinge that he hath mette with Doctor Smith his written bookes who of late deceasinge did as they say put M. DormaÌ„ in some trust Els they thinke he coulde not so shortly and sodenly before he was knowen to be a student in Diuinitie become a Bacheler of the same Vnlesse perhappes he sometime stoode vpon the bridge with others whiles the creator saide Omnes vos qui statis in ponte estote Bacchalaurei dixit fatui suÌ„t But the same his acqueintance so marueiling of his new degree in schoole of Diâ—initie affirme that in iesting scoffing mockinge and railinge he is suche a Veterane and so olde a practicioner that he doth plainely raigne yea and triuÌ„phe too in the schoole of scolding and though they helde their peace his dooynges in this booke doo wel declare the same And it is not vnlikely but that M. Dorman with others vpon vew of D. Hardinges booke iudgeing that he as a graue and learned man had sufficiently reasoned against vs but had otherwise dealte to coldely with vs as of purpose auoidynge glikes nippes scoffes bittes cuttes and girdes for so himselfe saithe thought it good by common aduise that M. Dorman takinge D. Hardinges reasons and so eased of that greatest parte of the labour should set foorth the matter and amplifie it specially that of the Popes supremacie in the whiche he saw his Maister had professed breuitie after his and certaine others deuise and not only with nippes and girdes pinche and wringe vs but also with whole cartlodes of railynges in the whiche facultie M. Dorman excelleth should ouerwhelme vs that wee might seeme to all their fauourers not only borne downe and cleane ouerthrowen by D. Hardinge but also by M. Dorman torne all to peeces according as M. Dorman hath in this booke for his parte well endeuoured himselfe to accomplishe Novv if any doo maruell that I not prouoked as may seeme doo purchase to my selfe so great and grecuous an aduersarie as is M. Dorman by ansvvering his booke vvritten as he professeth against the bishop of Sarisburie I make them this ansvvere Though this and other like bookes appeare in name and vvoorde to be vvritten againste the saide bishop onely yet be they in deede and meaninge vvriten againste vs all as vvell as him for that they doo oppugne and assaulte the cause vvhiche is common to vs all vvith him vnder his name onely goeinge about through his sides as it vvere to thrust vs all through the hartes Further seeinge suche a number of bookes as it vvere dartes directed at his head vvhereof the moste parte are suche that had he leysure enough therto yet vvould he neuer ansvvere them but by contempte of them vvhiche yet not ansvvered might seeme therfore to be let alone for that thei vvere not ansvverable suche is either the sclender discretion of some sielie soules either the bolde braggerie of many malaperte aduersaries I thought for the satisfiynge of the symple and
repressinge of the insolente to say somevvhat to some one of those bookes and therfore to M. Dormās rather than any others for that it came abroade nexte in ordre after D. Hardinge his booke Of vvhiche booke yet had I before I did beginne vnderstanded that I novve in processe doo that it had bene in substance so agreable vvith D. Hardinge his booke that the Bishoppe of Sarum should in ansvveringe the one in effect haue ansvvered bothe as he must needes doo it should for me haue bene let alone vntill the bishoppes ansvvere had come abroade in printe and than the conclusion onely excepted vvhiche is somevvhat seuerall to M. Dorman should it by me haue none othervvise bene ansvvered but onely by notinge in the margent in vvhat places of the bishoppes ansvvere to D. Hardinge euery place of M. Dormans booke is ansvvered vvhiche order I vvill hereafter folovve and vvhere M. Dorman shall haue any thinge peculiar that vvill I directly ansvvere my selfe Novv as the ignoraunce of the affinitie betvvene the Maisters and the scholers bookes caused me to beginne vvith M. Dormans booke as an other nevve vvoorke vntouched before intending verefy to goe through vvith the same so in the processe of the booke the knovvledge therof did grovv more and more and so much at the laste that I did not onely by the style as did Tullie Theophrastes Disciple but by the matter it selfe also knovv D. Harding his scholar so like to him that he might seeme his sonne also and spitte out of his mouth as they say so that in deede he may professe D. Hardinge to be his mayster of very good righte as of vvhome he hath the learninge that he shevveth in this booke And had he not dedicate the booke to D. Hardinge as to vvhome of right it apperteineth beyng as a man learned in the lavve not ignorant of the chiefe propertie of iustice suum cuique he mighte haue bene iustly accused of some vniuste compilation of his maisters almeries seeyng he is not yet his exequutor as vvell as D. Smithes This matter I say perceiued inforced me to stay least I might seeme of sette purpose though colorably to haue hasted to preuent the bishoppe of Sarisburie in ansvveringe D. Hardinge by ansvveringe M. Dorman and so to haue seemed vvillinge to goe before him one vvay in hastie dooynge vvhome I must needes folovv a great vvay behinde in all vvell dooinge And vvere not this cause vvhich yet is a great and a iuste cause I haue not suche leasure vvhiche is the common case of vs all as to ansvvere that vvhiche I doo heare say is already ansvvered and ready to printe as M. Dorman had leasure to vvrite againe that vvhiche vvas before vvriten by his Maister neither had I such leasure liste I as he dothe blotte paper vvith other mens dooinges These are the very causes vvhy I haue staied and as yet haue proceeded no further in the ansvveringeof M. Dormans booke But vvhen I had passed thus farre and the bishoppes ansvvere ▪ as the reporte than vvent vvas not fully finished and many good mèn muche desired somme ansvvere and as many aduersaries as much bragged that their bookes vvoulde neuer be ansvvered the councell of some friendes and suche continuall bragge of so many aduersaries caused me to suffer this little taste as vntimely fruite the sooner to come abroade that suche as finde double faulte vvith vs for not ansvveryng speedely or fully might in parte be satisfied And the rather haue I consented to suche aduise of my friendes for that by this taste that I haue giuen the readers of M. Dorman they shall knovv him throughly not a lyon as they say by his longe nayles but a lyar by his leude tales For by the vevve hereof they may not onely iudge of his vvhole treatie but also this principall parte and firste fronte in the vvhiche M. Dorman as a skilfull man hath placed the chiefe strength and force or rather this the very fundation of the vvhole beynge cleane ouerthrovven as I doubt not but it is all the reste muste needes come to ruine vvith all At the least I trust I haue so farre satisfied the discrete reader concerninge M. Dorman that it shall suffice hereafter to passe ouer the residue of his booke by briefe notes And I doo truste also that suche as shall blame me moste for not ansvvering the vvhole shal be greued moste that I haue ansvvered so much and that those that shall finde moste faulte i◠vvoordes vvith our slacke ansvveringe shall be moste vexed in minde vvith our speedy ansvvering For as their bookes vvere not therfore sodenly vvriten for that they came sodenly abroade so shal they I doubt not be ansvvered spedely that is in shorter space then they vvere vvriten in And yet all speede is not alvvay in most haste For it may so fall out that M. Dorman vvith the vvhole company of his adhaerentes the Papistes shall more easily write tenne such bookes more at randon as this is written then be hable to mainteine and to defende directlie this little parcel of his booke as eyther trulie or learnedly written And thus muche I thought good to saie concerning our not speedie answeringe as some men thinke and my parcel answering which some men wil blame for the satisfiyng of some for all looke not to satisfie though al Dormans and al other Papists were altogether already so answered as they al might be ashamed of their dooinges as I doubt nothinge god willinge but it shall shortely so come to passe though peraduenture not one emongst them all will euer confesse the same Now that I haue so diligently and largely and as it may seeme carefully also answered M. Dorman whose owne dooynges I affirme to be more woorthy of laughter than of any earnest answere which shall I am sure be layde also to my charge I doo certifie the reader that I doo not answere the reasons alleaged in this booke as M. Dormans but as the reasons of D. Hardinge of whom M Dorman hath borowed them and not onely Doctor Hardinges but Eckrus Pighius and Hosius reasons also yea and of all those that haue written in Latine for the Popes vsurped power and supremacie in whose writinges the like reasons are to be found and out of whom D. Hardinge as out of him M. Dorman hath translated adverbum almost such places as he thought for his purpose wherfore I haue vsed the more diligēce as vnder the name of one answeringe so many An other and most weightie cause why I haue vsed such diligence and prolixitie is this M. Dorman though he be a weake assaylant and sclender reasoner yet is he a great lyar and a venemous sclaunderer and therefore hath he sette abroade a lewde booke in deede but not so lewde as sclaunderous and sclaunderous not to seueral persons onely but to our whole countrey to our lawes and to our gratious soueraigne whom he chargeth as vsurping vndue authoritie sclaunderous I say not here at home
Priestes and immediatlie before the place by M. Dorman alledged are these woordes Sacerdotalis authoritas Sacerdotum hostes That is to saie the Priestlie authoritie and the enemies of Priestes Also these woordes nexte folowing the same place Sacerdotum collegium mox Sacerdotes i. dispensatores dei the Colledge or companie of Priestes and the Priestes that is to saie Gods dispensers or stewardes If thei will in readyng the epistle note these and many like phrases thei shall easelie perceiue this also whiche M. Dorman alledgeth to be spoken of the authoritie of many and not of one onelie And if it bee to tedious to peruse the whole epistle if the readers will but caste their eye vpon the shorte argument of the epistle written by Erasmus who was no vnskilfull or negligent vewer of the writynges of the olde fathers and whose authoritie M. Dorman vseth in this booke against vs thei shall easilie vnderstande the same Erasmus his woordes in the argument or summe of this epistle are these Ostendit praetereà qualiter sacerdotalis authoritas potestas diuina dignatione firmetur inde abortas haereses nata esse schismata ê™ dei sacerdotibus obtemperare noluerint Saincte Cyprian doeth shewe saieth Erasmus how the Priestlie authoritie and power is by Gods goodnesse established and that heresies and schismes dooe arise hereof that thei will not obey the Priestes of God Thus farre Erasmus who speaketh as you see of the verie place here by M. Dorman alleged And if M. Dorman had read and marked but this shorte argumente of that epistle thereby might he haue vnderstaÌ„ded that this place by hym alleged for the supremacie of one to witte Cornelius as Bishop of Rome perteineth to the authoritie of all the Priestes of God aswell as to hym And that sainct Cyprian meaneth that euery one Bishop should bee ruler onelie in his owne diocesse and that no one Bishop or other manne should bee ruler and iudge ouer all other Bishoppes appeareth by his woordes wherewith he blameth Pupianus for that presumption Tu te episcopum episcopi c. Thou doest make thy self a bishop ouer the Bishop and a iudge of the iudge by God for the tyme appoincted These are sainct Cyprians woordes with whom in this case sainct Augustine doeth agree who as is before noted reporteth and alloweth these woordes of sainct Cyprian Neque quisquam nostrum episcopum se esse episcoporum constituit c. That is to saie none of vs maketh hymself Bishop ouer Bishoppes or doeth by tyrannicall feare force his felowe Bishoppes to the necessitie of obeiyng Seyng euery Bishop hath of his libertie and power his owne free iudgemente as he who can not be iudged of an other neither can hymself iudge an other lette vs then looke all for the iudgement of our Lorde Iesus Christ who alone hath power bothe to place vs in the gouernaunce of the churche and to iudge of our actes Thus farre saincte Cyprian and faincte Augustine by whose iudgemente you see M. Dorman how the Pope hath vsurped a tyrannie ouer other Bishops in takyng vpon hym to be Bishop ouer all Bishops and iudge ouer the Iudges appoincted for the tyme in Christes steede and that you mainteine the saied tyrannie Dorman Fol. 5. Hetherto saincte Cyprian By the whiche woordes good Christian readers it is so euident that there must bee one Prieste in the Churche whom all other muste obeie that the same muste bee taken of vs for iudge here in earth in the steede of Christ that you see I nothyng doubt greate cause to condeÌ„ne the grosse ignoraunce of our late apologie wherein the authors contrary to this doctrine of saincte Cyprian moste impudently pronouÌ„ce that in his Churche Christ our lorde vseth not the helpe of any one man alone to gouerne the same in his absence as he that standeth in neede of no suche help and that if he did no mortall man could be found hable alone to doe the same and finally with the same S. Cyprian who died a holie martyr and is no doubt a sainct in heauen to whom the belief of bothe these twoo articles seemed not onely not impossible but also verie necessarie to liue and dye in the obedience of this Priest and vnder suche a iudge then with a sorte of leude losels in whose Churche beyng a certain secrete scattred congregation vnknowen to all the worlde beside and to their own felowes too is nother heade order obedience neither yet certaine rules or groundes where on to staie to runne hedlong ye wote no more then your guides whither Nowell I trust it is sufficientlie and moste euidently declared that euery Bishop in his owne diocesse is that one Priest whom all must obeie and that this place apperteineth to any Bishop of any place as well as the Bishoppe of Rome But whereas M. Dorman would so â—aine haue these woordes of saincte Cyprian Vnus in ecclesia ad tempus sacerdos c. whiche is to saie one Prieste and one Iudge in the Churche for the tyme in the steede of Christ to proue that there ought to be one heade Bishop ouer all the Churche if that to gratifie M. Dorman were grauÌ„ted hym where vpon he would gather consequentlie that Cornelius as Bishoppe of Rome should bee that one heade as to whom and of whoÌ„ this place is written as M. Dorman thinketh if it be declared by the verie place it self that these wordes bée spoken and meant of saincte Cyprian hymself and not of Cornelius and so consequentlie the supremacie of the Churche by their owne reason to bee remoued from Rome to Carthage in Afrike where no Christian Churche now is maie not M. Dorman D. Hardyng and Hosius who doo al so confidentlie allege this place for the Bishop of Rome his supremacie bee either ashamed of their greate folie or els declare their shamelesse impudencie For declaration whereof I saie that as this thirde epistle of the first booke is written to Cornelius then Bishop of Rome so is a greate parte of the saied epistle written of saincte Cyprian his owne affaires and of the iniuries doen to hymself by the heretikes bothe present in Afrike and of their railinges against him in his abseÌ„ce as appeareth by these woordes about a side of a leafe in folio from the beginnyng of the epistle Quae autem sui elatio quae comminantium tumens inflata ac vana iactatio illic absenti minari cùm hic me habeaÌ„t in potestate praesentem What a presumption of themselues iâ— this what a swelling and puffed and vaine braggerie is this there to mannesse me beyng absente when as thei haue me here presente in their handes By these woordes of S. Cyprian it appeareth euidentlie that here he speaketh of hymself beyng despised and in his absence railed vpon by certaine of his owne inferiours and so goeth on with a longe processe and with many allegations out of the scriptures and reproueth that damnable vice of
hym alleged moste euidentlie againste hym and that moste falsly vsurped supremacie of the pope You haue heard how contrary his witnesses be twoo against one and that one either not so writyng as is alleged by M. Dorman but falsified or forged as so writyng by the Popes commen corrupters and falsaries of al writers and writynges or if so writyng yet vnworthie credite euen by his owne lawe as partiall in his owne cause and otherwise to be suspected for that his testimonie is in diuers copies found not onely diuers but cleane coÌ„trarie vnlesse M. DormaÌ„ thought he might put in and out this woorde non not as a little sillable and nothyng materiall at his pleasure And further the saied witnesse who so euer he be beyng but one is confuted as you haue hearde by the veredicte of twoo witnesses moste worthie of creadite brought in with hym for testimonie of the same matter You se therfore not onely no necessitie but an impossibilitie of such an one onely head aswell of the churche dispersed throughout all the worlde as of one onely king or prince of all the worlde it self You sée there was no suche opinion muche lesse knowledge of any suche head emoÌ„gest the Apostles or in the primitiue churche but that it is a newe deuilishe deuise of the late ambitious Bishoppes of Rome who when thei were neuer able yet hitherto well to rule the churche of Rome one citie as by all histories and experience is euidente would yet of the worlde vsurpe the superioritie supremacie And if S. Paule didthinke he was not méete to haue charge of one Churche who could not well gouerne his owne house of what monstrous ambitioÌ„ and presumption is he trowe you who neuer yet able to gouerne one peculiar churche dooeth claime and would take vpon him the regiment of all churches throughout the whole worlde Wheras he is not able were he thereto required to tell the onely names of a small parte of the saied churches neither knoweth in what part of the world a great many of theÌ„ be Dorman fol. 6. I can not heare staie to examine curioussie euery worde in these auncient fathers but leauing that good readers to your discreatioÌ„ and not doubtyng but that in these graue witnesses in a matter of suche weight importaunce as wherevpon dependeth the healthe of the whole Churche you will be no lesse diligente then you would bee in examinyng the depositions of your owne witnesses or your aduersaries in a triall of landes or other temporall commoditie Nowell M. Dorman is in haste and lacketh leisure for the examination of these matters there is some plaie belike towardes and his parâ—e therein the busieste of all other and therefore you must examine these witnesses your selues and that with more diligence then you would dooe in controuersies about landes or worldie matters Now surely M. Dorman a little examinatioÌ„ will serue to trie out that you and all your felowe collectours and ouersears of this booke were either of hast shamefully ouerséene or so ignoraunte that you could not sée though you had had good leisure or moste impudeÌ„t and shamelesse so that you cared nothyng what or how you did write so it were some thyng or els all three together And had you doen well you should all haue bestowed your leisure and cunnyng together in some one piththie booke if any thyng can be piththilie written of suche leude and trifelyng matters as you take in hande to maintaine rather then by launcyng out suche hauocke of bookes like to this yours and moste méete for you in poste pase as though all speede were in the haste onelie to gette for the tyme the commendation of celeritie and readinesse either of your fanourers altogether blinded with partialitie or of such vndiscreate readers as delite moste in moste trifles and withall to obteine a perpetuall note and blotte of greate ignoraunce mixed with more shamelessenesse and impudencie in the opinions of all wise and learned men For it will fall out M. Dorman that you alone shall bee more able to write and sende vs ouer a doosen suche bookes at this is by the leisure and facultie that you haue sufficiente enough thereto then D. Hardyng and you with all your adherentes shall bee able to maintaine one little paâ—cell of this your or his booke as truelie and sincerely written So mucke harder it is either to write a little well and truelie or to defende a little of muche written lightlie and falselie then to write neuer so many and so greate bookes bothe lightly leudely and falsely too suche as I trust it shall appeare to the worlde this booke named woorthily yours is in deede M. Dorman Dorman fol. 6. I shall procede to the consideration of the seconde reason whiche before I touched of the people of Isâ—ael if I firste warne you to consider but this by the waie that ye maie truste those aunciente fathers by their woorde the better an other tyme how many schismes bee burste in apon vs in our countrey of Englande for one common receiued truth in the daies of our fathers when we remained in the obedieÌ„ce of one chief priest and iudge whiche shake nowe so miserablie the same how quietlie in one loue in one truth in one doctrine in one Churche in one heade thereof God almightie and his minister vnder hym appoincted ouer the same weliued then and other in other places dooe now Nowell Yet for all the haste M. Dorman hath he will by the waie warne you to credite the aunciente fathers by hym alleged The same dooe wee also desire of the discreate readers that thei will creadit those auncient fathers who though alleged by M. Dorman beyng directlie against hym doo declare that he is woorthy of no creadite at all And he doeth vniustlie charge England specially with so many schismes where it is well knowen that there is as muche consente in true doctrine in the churche of Englande at this tyme as euer was in any realme at any time And though there were not a perfecte consent of all men in all poinctes what marueile yet were it if that should happen emongeste vs whiche was not altogether lackyng emongeste the Apostles themselues Let the conteÌ„tion betwéene Paule and Peter and betwéene Paule againe Barnabas be a proofe thereof What woonder if that were emongest vs touching some poinctes that was not wanting in the primitiue churche emoÌ„gest the olde fathers Let the variaunce emongeste the bishops assembled at Nicene councell let the contention betwene the bishops of the Easte and of the Weste churche aboute the keepyng of Easter daie a matter not woorthie of suche variaunce bée a witnesse thereof Let the sharpe conteÌ„tion betwéene S. Chrysostome and Theophilus bishop of AlexaÌ„dria and Epiphanius bishop of Cyprus the bitter strief betwéene S. Hierome and S. Augugustine and betwéene the saied S. Hierome againe and Rufine and like contentions betweene the beste men of all
one man no lesse truely then pleasantlie saied are like a nose of Waxe whiche will suffer it self easilie to bee drawen countredrawen and framed whiche waie ye liste and as a certaine rule of leade of the Lesbian building the which it is not harde to apply wherto ye will And againe the same Pighius in an other place saith We haue shewed before that the scriptures maie easilie be drawen euery waie and like a certaine Leaden rule maie without difficultie be applied to euery wicked sentence Thus farre Pighius speakyng it twise or thrise as thei saie as is meete for so woorthie a matter Now compare me the estimation and saiyng of the Scripture vsed by this Papiste with Suenkfeldius his speakyng of it The scripture saith Suenkfeldius is not Gods worde but dead letters Pighius saith the scripture is like a nose of Waxe like a rule of Leade Is Swenkfielde callyng the scriptures dead letters more wicked then is Pighius blasphemous in termyng it a nose of waxe and withall saiyng that it is so called as truelie as pleasauntlie Suche a pleasure hath this piuishe Papist in deridyng of Gods woorde Is it more to be abhorred that Swenkfielde saieth the scripture is but deade letters then that Pighius calleth it a rule of Leade Is there any thyng more dull and deade then is Leade Is there moreouer any thyng more vncertaine then a long latthe or rule of Leade readie to bend and boow euery waie Swenkfielde saieth the Scripture is but dead letters Hosius your great estate for learnyng and vertue beyng verie busie in the ende of his fourth booke againste Brentius in comparyng the Gospell written in paper and ynke with the churche whiche he calleth the liuelie Gospell as though the other should bee called the deade Gospell goeth as nere to Swenkfield as .iiij. pence doo to a grote And where he would faine haue vttered his stomacke plainely againste the scripture whiche hath so shreudlie vexed the Pope and Papistes and durst not yet he saieth thus muche Scriptura quomodo profertur à catholicis est verbum dei quomodo profertur ab haereticis est verbum diaboli The scripture as it is alleged or vttered by the Catholikes to witte Papistes is the woorde of God but as it is vttered of heretikes meaning vs it is the woorde of the Deuill Thus would Hosius by a leude imitation of saincte Hieromes woordes vsed in his vehemencie perswade the people to thinke that the Scripture vttered by any but Papistes onelie is the woorde of the deuill But the Scripture of it self is euer Gods woorde in deede though the abuse thereof bee Deuilishe and therefore Hosius by hatred of the Scripture ouerreaching hymself dooeth in deede speake thus of it vntrulie And as the Scripture is neither nose of waxe nor Leaden rule nor the woorde of the deuill for that it pleaseth Pighius or Hosius so to name it no more are wee heretikes for that it pleaseth them and other aduersaries maliciouslie so to terme vs neither bee thei themselues by and by Catholikes because thei falselie so misname themselues It is not their onelie saiyng and proouyng of nothyng that can make either vs to bee that we bee not or them not to bee that whiche in deede thei are the verie Synagoge of Satan whiche is by the light of Goddes woorde made manifeste and prooued in suche sorte now in our daies that a good parte of the Christian worlde perswaded thereby hath forsaken their Satanicall secte of Papistrie and ioygned themselues to the sincere doctrine of the Gospell whereof riseth all this their deadlie hatred and blasphemous misnamyng of the Scripture To proceade Suenkfeldius saith No more accompt is to be made of the scripture then of any other creatures emongst the whiche thei are to be rekened What saith the hoggish Papiste Pighius The scriptures maie be framed drawen and redrawen this waie that waie euery waie and applied to euery wicked sense or sentence and therefore as it seemeth by his iudgemente the Scriptures are not onely not profitable as be all Gods creatures to the whiche Suenkfeldius dooeth compare them but are hurtfull and deceitfull also appliable to euery wicked sense like as is a longe lithie Latthe or rule of Leade to euery crooked wall suche a rule as hetherto neuer did yet good Carpenter vse I trowe and like a nose of ware suche a creature as was neuer by God made Wherefore the Papistes are not onely in blasphemous woordes against the scriptures like to Suenkfeldius who compareth it to other Goddes creatures but in scoffing against the woorde of God in suche abominable sort and comparyng it to suche leude instrumentes and madde members as are leaden rules and warē noses are more horriblie blasphemous then euer was Suenkfeldius And whereas Pighius had a naturall nose and other mēbers of his bodie by the vertue of Gods woorde and yet in mockage dooeth compare Gods woorde so beneficiall to him to a nose of waxe by his swinishe tongue vttring suche blasphemous woordes it is greate pitie that he had not had accordyng to his Pighishe name an hoggishe groine in steede of his nose a swinish body accordingly that he might altogether as he was hoggish in minde so likewise in outwarde shape of bodie also haue answered fullie to his swynish name No lesse contemptuously and contumeliously also speaketh Hosius of the Scriptures who answearyng Brentius alleadgyng that kynges also had to doo with gods woorde and prouyng the same by the example of Dauid and Salomon kynges of Israel who by the motion of gods holy spirite put in writing those godly psalmes and heauenly instructions whiche haue béen of all ages and times accompted in the body of the Canonicall scriptures hath these woordes Scripsit Dauid psalmos aliquot si quid Athanasio credimus quinque tantùm Qui ni scriberet ne nunc quidem regi prohibetur aut principi quo minus aut rythmos aut Psalmos aut carmina scribat quibus Dei laudes celebret Scribimus indocti doctique poëmata passim Whiche in english is thus much to saye Dauid did write a few Psalmes if we geue any creadit to Athanasius but fiue onely Why should he not so write neither is a kyng or prince forbidden at this tyme but he may write rimes or Psalmes or verses to prayse God therby Learned and vnlearned write poetries euery where Thus farre Hosius who is not content to the derogation of the authoritie of kynges and the Scriptures ioinctly to compare Dauid his psalmes beyng of vndoubted authoritie as writen by the inspiration of the holy ghost and of the body of the canonicall scripture and approued alleged by our Sauiour Christe with rimes onely written by Princes in our daies but also by a blasphemous derision to matche them with fabulouse poesies writen by learned vnlearned it maketh no matter with him I am sure had any writen or sayd so muche in goddes churche vnder the olde lawe
onely but abroade also in foraigne countreis VVherefore whom so euer M. Dorman sheweth him selfe to be and how sclender an aunswere soeuer might best become him I thought it should become me not sclenderly to esteeme the honour of my prince my dâ—etie to my countrey and to the lawes of the realme but with earnestnesse to repell suche reproches as M. Dorman hath attempted to blemishe them withall Thirdelie for that the simple and vnlearned readers haue often best liking in bookes more boldely then learnedly written and are most in daunger to creadite most lewde and sclaunderouse lyes in so muche that a great many for the commendation of these vertues doo praeferre the Scholar before the Maister M. Dorman I meane before D. Hardinge suche is their iudgement I haue therfore in answering more at large applied my selfâ— to such as be of meane vnderstandinge to whom the guilefull dealinges of the Papistes can not with breuitie be made manifest For as a serpent at a touch thrusteth in his stinge and venime but the mischeafe in like wise can not be as sodeinlie cured but requireth longer time and businesse so can not the sclaunderous and venemous lyes by M. Dorman quickely tould be so quickely and brieflie answered with such plainenesse as is mete for such who are most in daunger to credite such false tales VVherfore good reader if I shal seeme to be too prolix and tedious yea and to careful too in answeringe so largely and diligently such a one as M. Dorman sheweth him selfe to be specially in the beginninge till I haue made thee acquainted with his kinde of writing I trust thou shalt the better beare with me therein if thou wilt beare these considerations in memorie Yet haue I laboured to serue also the learned and occupied readers turne For I haue in the conclusion of this mine answere in fewe wordes touched the summe of the whole processe before whereunto if it shall please them at the first to resort it may so satisfie them perhappes that they shall not neede to stay about the larger explication of mine aunswere in the formar processe of this booke And this for my earnest aunswere to so merie a mans booke as is M. Dorman Now as I haue not dealt with him in his facultie in the which I coÌ„fesse him to be inuincible and woorthy to be not onely Bachilar but double Doctour thereof so yet if M. Dormans outragious railinges and shameles lyes shall cause me sometime to shape him an answere meete for such a man as he is I trust the reasonable reader wil consider my not occasion but inforcement rather thereunto not onely looking vppon my saiynges and vewynge how meete or vnmeete they be for me but how meete they be for his saiynges and him to whom I doo make answere VVho doth so confidently affirme and solemnely aduouch that if our stomakes shall serue vs to replie he is sure that our euidence is so much that sixe lynes to speake with the moste wil receiue vvith ease all that vve haue to vvrite vvhich hovv truely it is spoken shall be tried I trust by this litle euidence that I haue here geuen in to thee good Reader against his counterfaite and false forged vvritinges vvherein is not of matter of truthe so muche as sixe lynes any vvhere to be founde FINIS Dorman THE ARTYCLES VVHICH THE AVTHOR HATH TAKEN APON HYM TO PROVE AGAINST M. IVELLES NEGATIVE That the Bishop of Rome is the head of Christes vniuersal churche here in earth and that within the firste six hundred yeeres after Christes departure hence he was so called and taken That the people was then taught to beleue that Christes body is really substantially corporally carnally or naturally in the Sacrament That the communion was then ministred vnder one kinde That there was Masse sayde at that time although there wer none to receiue with the priest Nowell 1 M. Dormans first article is the fourth with D. Hardinge fol. 75. 2 His seconde article is the fifte with D. Hardinge folio 96. 3 His thirde article is the seconde with D. Hardinge folio 3â— 4 The last article is the firste with D. Hardinge fol. 9. And thus as you sée M. Dorman diuers from his Maister in the order of the matters so shall you finde his Maisters reasons and allegations in his booke by like arte disposed that you may know that M. DormaÌ„ though bachiler of Diuinitie hath not yet forgotten all his Logike and that he hath his Rhetorike in perfect memorie A REPROVFE OF M. Dorman in prima fronte libri Augustinus contra literas Petiliani lib. 2. cap. 16. Si quaeras quibus fructibus vos esse potius lupos rapaces cognoscamus obijcio schismatis crimen quod tu negabis ego autem statim probabo Neque enim communicas omnibus gentibus illis ecclesiis Apostolico labore fundatis That is to say If thou demaundest he speaketh to Petilian the Heretike by what fruictes I knovv you to be rather the rauening vvolues I obiecte to you the fault of scisme vvhich thou vvilt deny but I wil out of hande proue For thou doest not communicate with all Nacions nor with those churches founded by th'apostles labour Nowell M. Dorman had either no greate store of choyse or some lacke of iudgement whan he did choose S. Augustines sentence vpon the woordes of our Sauiour of those false Prophetes who comming in sheepes clothing are in deede rauening woulfes you shall know them by their fruites c. For what sentence of all other in the Scriptures or Doctors dooth more liuely represent the aduersaries themselues who folowinge the olde Iuishe priestes Scribes and Phariseis of whom our Sauiour spake y e saide woords in walking grauely in longe garmentes pretending longe praiers preferring y e amiable titles of y e Spiritualtie of y e church that louing mother yea and of fauorable fathers too professing with their foresaid forefathers y t they may kill no man that they may not enter into the iudgement place for feare of pollution of that pure white fleese of their innocencie yea and whan a condemned person falleth into their handes to be committed to the fecular power they pitifully make request that the wretch suffer no losse of life nor limme And whan they haue so ouerspread and couered themselues with these and suche like sheepish white flieses more softer than lambes wull and haue so sheepishly bleated with woordes abhorring bloud than proceede they forwarde with their said Fathers than play they most the most rauening woulfes moste shew their insaciable thirst of murder and bloudsheading Let Hierusalem and the countreis about sprinkled with y e bloud of our Sauiour Christe and his holy Apostles and Disciples testifie this as moste true in their forefathers the Phariseis Scribes and high Priestes and let all partes of Englande Fraunce Italie Spayne Germanie yea of all Christendome ouerspread with the bloud of the
and in persecutioÌ„ of the true churche of Christ but who so wil read that 70. epistle of Basill shall finde it otherwise We neither worship our selues nor inforce any other to worship the Image that Basil treateth of in that 70 epistle wee are no Idolaters nor teache false doctrine we haue not many goddes lesse and greater we abate nothyng as did the Arrians but moste to our power set foorth the glorie and deitie of Christ Let the Papistes see that these poinctes touche not theÌ„selues rather We doo not sequester the holie ghost from the glorious Trinitie as did those Arrians in saincte Basils tyme whose mischief and their owne miserie he in this epistle doeth deplore and bewaile Wherefore his saiynges in that Epistle apperteâ—ne nethyng to vs who are nothyng guiltie of those crimes and heresies but they are brought in by dreaming M. Dorman without any cause and biside all purpose sauyng onely that in readyng Hosius he founde this place alledged thought good to folowe him therein and to translate it into his booke But now touchyng our verie case why did not these bishops of the Easte write their humble petition for helpe in their miseries seuerallie to the bishoppe of Rome as heade of all the churche but doo write to all the bishops of Fraunce and Italie indifferently without any mention of the bishop of Rome at al So farre of is it that thei made any speciall mention of hym as the chief or heade ouer all the churche yea placyng also the bishops of Fraunce before the Italian bishoppes though M. Dorman doo craftilie dissemble the same and callyng them altogether brethren and felowes in the ministerie whiche thei would neuer haue dooen had thei had this opinion of his supremacie that maister Dorman and other Papistes doo now defende and mainteine But in the saied 70. epistle the saied East Bishops whiche doo not once speake of the Pope doo praie the Frenche and Italian bishops to make huÌ„ble sute to the Emperour that he by his authoritie would represse their enemies the ArriaÌ„s and releue their miseries whiche maketh rather for the Emperour his supremacie in the churche then for the bishops of Rome Now where M. Dorman speaketh of persecution as he did a little before of our moste cruell practise I referre it to the iudgement of all the worlde whether our aduersaries or wee bee more cruell persecutours and whether haue suffered more persecution thei or wee and whether thei or we doo come more nere to that example of persecution by S. Basill in this 70. epistle described I praie thee good reader iudge indifferently First S. Basill sheweth that the persecutioÌ„ was moste horrible cruell and bloudie suche as was impossible to be expressed with woordes and that thieues murtherers and other offenders were more reasonablie and mercifullie dealte with then godlie men were in that persecution that thei were apprehended in the night and neither knowyng their accusers nor coÌ„uicted of any crime were banished or put to death And that there was continuall mournyng weepyng and sighyng euery where that because the persecutours had the name of Christians thei would not suffer suche as thei put to cruell death to haue the names of martyres and that neither age and a hoare white heade neither godlines and a life vertuouslie ledde had any reuerence with the persecutours He sheweth that the persecutors were riche wealthie but thei who were persecuted were poore menne and for their pouertie contemned not hauyng libertie to speake He calleth this horrible persecution fire by a figure but the persecution that wee suffer is by fire in deede by the whiche our aduersaries trie vs and sifte vs into ashes so that saincte Paules prophecie of many who in the laste daies should be tried by fire is in deede and without figure accoÌ„plished in vs. Consider I praie you good readers these circumstances of moste extreame crueltie in those persecutours whom S. Basill speaketh of and iudge whether we or our aduersaries doo the like and withall consider how reasonablie M. Dorman resembleth vs to the saied persecutours and themselues to them that were so persecuted Now where he goeth aboute to burthen vs with enuie of Churches either pulled doune or altered to other vse and of their altars destroied muche like as the rebelles did burthen Henrie the eight in the. 28. yere of his raigne we make this answere Truthe it is that the foundations of Abbeis and Chauntries Pro redemptione animarum fundatorum suorum progenitorum ipsorum c. For the redemption of the soules of their foundours and their progenitours soules c. as in the saied foundations appereth more at large were so vnsure and weake or rather wicked that thei could no longer beare suche huge superstructions and buildynges as were laied vpon them For the Idolatrie supersticion hypocrisic and wickednesse of the Monkes Nunnes and Priestes themselues were growen so greate and so heauie now that no foundacions though sure and good were hable any longer to beare and abide them Let the horrible historie of their darke dreadfull and moste diuellishe dooynges notified to kyng Henrie the eight and after to the Parliament house by the reporte of the visitours retournyng from their visitacion of Abbaies and the Monkes Nunnes themselues in their owne confessions subscribed with their owne handes bee a proofe thereof whiche beyng regestered in a blacke booke might more iustlie bee called doumes daie then any recorde this daie remainyng in Englande reuealyng suche matter as thei had thought should haue remained hidde vnto the greate daie of reuelation of all secreates if euer thei looked for it Now truly the monstrous liues of Monkes Friers and Nunnes haue destroied their Monasteries and Churches and not wée Concernyng their foundations so contrarie to the merites of Christ our sauiour that is come to passe of theÌ„ that our sauiour hymself foreshewed Omnis plantatatio c. Euery plantacion not planted by my heaueÌ„ly father shal be plucked vp by the rootes Touchyng their impietie towardes God and wickednesse of life that is fulfilled that was foreshewed by the Prophetes Esaie and Ieremie vpon Babilon and Hierusalem and consequently vpon all wicked cities and places where Gods lawe shall likewise bée transgressed where like Idolatrie like fornication bodily and ghostlie shalbée committed where shalbée founde like foolishenesse ignoraunce and blindnesse of the Pastours heades and rulers that is to saie that their busldynges shalbée made heapes of stones that brambles briers shall growe where their pleasaunte lodgynges were that Oules night scritches and Dragons shall make their neastes and houle and seritche where the voyce of bankettyng and ioye was wonte to bee heard and that their houses shall neuer bee builded againe And that when menne shall passe by and saie why hath the Lorde thus dooen to this greate Citie to these goodlie Abbeies Nunries and Fratries Answere shal bee made for that
he declareth in many places that euery Bishop in his owne diocesse hath the full possession of y e bishoprike whiche is one throughout all the worlde therfore is the onely bishop and head of that his owne Catholike church as namely in his epistle to Antonianus where he hath these woordes Vna est Ecclesia à Christo per totum mundum in multa membra diuisa item episcopatus vnus episcoporum multorum concordi numerositate diffusus c. That is to saie there is one churche from Christ throughout the whole worlde diuided likewise one bishoprike spread abroade in the agreable multitude of many Bishops But S. Cyprian declareth his minde moste plainly of this one bishoprike wholy and equally possessed of all and euery bishop in his booke De simplicitate praelatorum not farre from the beginnyng writyng thus Vnum corpus vnus spiritus vna spes vocationis vestrÄ™ vnus dominus vna fides vnum Baptisma vnus deus Quam vnitatem firmiter tenere vindicare debemus maximè episcopi qui iÌ„ ecclesia praesidemus vt episcopatum quoque ipsum vnum atque indiuisum probemus Nemo fraternitatem mendacio fallat nemo fidei veritateÌ„ perfida preuaricatione corrumpat Episcopatus vnus est cuius à singulis in solidum pars tenetur Ecclesia vna est quae in multitudineÌ„ latiùs incremento foecunditatis extenditur quomodo solis multi radij sed lumen vnum rami arboris multi sed robur vnum tenaci radice fundatuÌ„ c. Whiche is to saie There is one bodie and one spirit one hope of your vocation one Lorde one Faithe one Baptisme one God The whiche vnitie we must firmely hold and mainteine speciallie wee Bishoppes whiche doo gouerne in the Churche that we maie proue the bishoprike it self also to bee one and vndeuided Let no man by liyng deceiue the brotherhodde let no man corrupte the veritie of faith by false preuarication There is one Bishoprike parte whereof euery man hath wholie or more plainely there is one Bishoprike whiche euery bishop hath wholie for his part There is one churche whiche is spread abroade by increase of fruictefulnesse into a multitude as there be many beames of the suÌ„ne but one light many braunches of the tree but one bodie of it staied vpon a sure roote c. Thus farre saincte Cyprian with muche more processe to proue the vnitie of the churche and the vnitie of one bishoprike whiche euery Bishop wholie hath for his parte and so consequentlie all Bishops to be equall Wherefore maister Dorman hath in vain noted in the margeÌ„t of his booke in this place One God one Christe one holie Ghost one Bishoppe as though the Bishoppe of Rome were that one Bishop and none but he as there is one onely God and none but he Where as that place of sainct Cyprian as by conference with this place appeareth proueth that though there be one bishoprike throughout all the worlde yet are there many bishops and that euery one in his owne Diocesse hath the whole possession of that one Bishoprike and that therefore there is an equalitie of all Bishops and so consequently no superioritie of any one ouer all as M. Dorman would haue it For if euery Bishop haue in solidum that is to saie fullie and wholie that one Bishoprike or bishoplie function and office as S. Cyprian saieth no one caÌ„ haue more then the whole and therefore no one can be aboue all other Whiche maie appeare more plainlie by the comparisons of one faithe and one Baptisme whiche saincte Cyprian in the same place vseth For as there is but one faithe though there be many faithfull persones one Baptisme though many Baptised so there is by sainct Cyprian his iudgement but one Bishoprike yet be there many Bishops whiche one Bishoprike is equallie and wholie diuided emongeste all the said Bishops as faithe and Baptisme are equally and wholie diuided emongeste the faithfull Baptised and yet remaineth still but one Bishoprike as there doeth but one faithe and one Baptisme for that euery bishoppe hath that one bishoprike wholie as euery true faithfull hath the one christian faithe wholie and euery one that is duely Baptised hath that one Baptisme wholie And consequently it foloweth that as no one man hath any superioritie in Baptisme or faithe aboue other truely faithfull and Baptised so hath no one bishoppe any superioritie ouer other bishoppes for that euery bishop hath that one bishoprike wholie and therfore none hath it more then other but be all equall in office and authoritie This is S. Cyprian his minde of one Bishopricke whiche euery bishop hath wholie and equallie and is therfore in his owne Diocesse the one onely bishop in the catholike Churche to gouerne the same Whereby any manne but of meane vnderstandyng maie well perceiue that this saiyng of one bishoppe vsed by sainct Cyprian maketh nothyng for the bishoppe of Rome his supremacie but directlie againste it makyng all other bishops equall with hym as thei whiche haue in solidum wholie that one Bishoprike as well as he And therefore when sainct Cyprian nameth one bishop in the catholike church or of a catholike churche he meaneth the bishop of that speciall diocesse which he entreateth of of what countrey so euer it be as here he meaneth Cornelius and by the like wordes in other places he meaneth other bishops and of other diocesses Whiche is moste euident by the like wordes of one Bishop who gouerneth the church vsed by the same saincte Cyprian in this epistle to Pupianus His woordes be these Episcopus qui vnus eâ—â— ecclesiae praeest coÌ„temnitur c. The Bishop which is one and gouerneth the Churche is contemned and sette at nought c. Where it is moste euident that by that one Bishop who gouerneth the Churche and is contemned he meaneth himself beyng bishop of Carthage and by the saied Pupian despised as is at large alreadie declared Whiche place yet M. Dorman alittle before alledged for the supremacie of the Bishop of Rome as leudelie as he doeth this place here To conclude Maximus and his felowes had a controuersie with Cornelius altogether diuers from our coÌ„trouersies with the Popes of Rome and therefore their exaÌ„ple apperteineth nothyng to this case of the Popes supremacie then neither mooued nor knowen And it is no meruaile if that Maximus Vrbanus and Sidonius beyng priestes of Rome there hauyng with Nouatus beyng hymself Priest of Rome also made so great stirre and businesse against Cornelius recoÌ„ciled themselues to Cornelius the Romaine bishop beyng their own bishop whiche apperteineth nothyng at all to vs who haue nothing to doo with the bishop of Rome Dorman fol. 3. So did Vrsatius and Valens forsakyng the heresie of Arius offer vp their recantation to Iulius then Bishoppe of Rome By this meaneâ— good Christian readers retourned thei to the Churche by this muste you retourne that haue straied what
a proude and slaunderous toungue Emongest other places he allegeth this texte He that saieth thou foole to his brother c. is guiltie of hell fire whereof he inferreth how can thei then escape the iudgemeÌ„t of God the aueÌ„ger who spake suche thinges not onelie to brethren but also to Priestes And so procedyng alledgeth out of the Scriptures againste those heretikes whiche had so railed on him as out of Deuteronomium the 17 chapiter and out of the first booke of Kinges out of the 8. of Mathewe and the 10. of Luke the 23. of the Actes of the obedieÌ„ce and reuerence due to the high priestes and to the Apostles And all this he writeth speciallie to confirme his owne autthoritie beyng so vnwoorthilie railed on behinde his backe as is moste euidente by the continuauÌ„ce of the processe After whiche foloweth the place by M. Dorman alledged of the priest of God who is not obeied and of one prieste and one iudge in the churche in Christes steede not regarded Whiche woordes he speaketh of hymself so abused by those heretikes so railyng on hym behinde his backe as by all that goeth before from the firste entrie of speakyng of hymself and his owne wronges and still continuyng the treatie of hymself and his owne matters and also by these woordes folowyng it doeth moste plainly appere Caeterum dico dico enim prouocatus c. But I saie saieth sainct Cyprian for I saie beyng prouoked to witte by suche railers vpon him as he began firste to speake of I saie beyng sorowfull I saie beyng coÌ„pelled when a bishop is placed in the roume of his predecessour beyng deade when he is chosen peaceably by the voice of all the people beyng in persecution defended by Gods helpe ioigned faithfullie to all his felowe bishops tried and allowed of his people in his bishoprike foure yeres sufferyng so many persecutions euen at this verie time in the whiche I doo write to you these letters cried for to be throwen to the Lions when such a brother is assaulted of certaine desperate and wicked persones it appeareth that thei whiche doo so assaulte him be the enemies of Christe Thus farre saincte Cyprian whereby it appeareth that he hath continued and doeth still continue to write of hymself by the verie woordes prouocatus dico I saie being prouoked c. and by the circumstances of his complaintes to Cornelius for suche vnworthie despisyng of him and railing vpon hym by suche his disobedient inferiours and by the circumstance of the matter time where he saieth that he who was of his people allowed foure yeres in his Bishoprike is the broother so assaulted beyng the Priest of God is so despised beyng the iudge in Christes steede for the tyme is not regarded as he saied before Whereby it is moste manifest that sainct CypriaÌ„ meaneth himself and not Cornelius who was bishop of Rome but thrée yeres or as Platina and others saie but twoo yeres So that these woordes of one priest one Iudge in the Churche for the tyme in steede of Christe whiche M. Dorman hath alledged for the supremacie of one heade of the vniuersall Churche can not possiblie be taken as spoken of Cornelius Bishop of Rome but are directlie spoken of S. Cyprian hymself Bishop of Carthage in Afrike as I doubt not but all learned and discreate men readyng the epistie will iudge Wherefore it falleth out by M. Dormans diligence that Carthage whiche is in Afrike and in the possession of the Infideles should bee the see of the supreme heade of the Churche and not Rome Now the truthe in deede is that as this place is here alledged by sainct Cyprian with a number of scriptures there like wise rehearsed for the mainteinaunce of his owne authoritie in his Bishoprike so doo thei likewise apperteine to the authoritie of euery other bishop in his own diocesse who is there th' one priest and the one iudge in the churche in Christes stéede for the tyme. And neither these nether any other suche places were euer alleged by S. Cyprian for the supremacie of any one Bishop ouer al the churche Let S. Cyprians woordes next before the very place by M. Dorman alleged proue this that I haue saied Cum haec tanta talia multa alia exempla praecedant c. That is to saie where as these suche and so greate examples with many other doâ—e goe before by the whiche the sacerdotal authoritie and power is by Goddes goodnesse established what maner of men thinke you bee thei whiche beyng the enemies of Priestes and rebelles againste the catholike Churche are feared neither by the threatnynges of the Lorde forewarnyng nor with the vengeaunce of the indgement to come For hereof rise heresies and schismes that the prieste of God is not obeied c. as maister Dorman hath alleged out of this place of S. Cyprian You maie see that where S. CypriaÌ„ saieth now The priest of God as speaking of one immediatly before he said The priestes as of many as it is all one to saie Obeie thy superiour and Obeie thy superiours Whiche also declareth that the woordes nexte folowyng of one Prieste and one Iudge in the Churche in Christes steede doo apperteine to all Bishops that is to euery one in his owne diocesse and not one to be ouer all the churche Concernyng the Apologie maister Dorman his owne example of ciuile gouernemente â— little before alledged plainlie declareth that he dooeth vniustlie finde fault with it For as the Apologie with vs denieth not but that euery king in his own realme euery meaner magistrate in his office is in Goddes steede or place a Iudge for the tyme so doeth it not denie but that euery Bishop in his diocesse is in Christes steede or place iudge for the time But as the Apologiâ— denieth that euery one Kyng is or can bee in Goddes place iudge ouer all the worlde to rule it but euery kyng is in Gods steede Iudge in his owne kyngdome or kingdomes as God doeth appoinct for he geueth to diuers kynges many kyngdomes but to none all so doeth it deny that any one bishop is or can be in Goddes place iudge in the vniuersall churche or in al churches throughout the worlde Wherefore the Apologie is herein vniustlie blamed of you M. Dorman neither dooeth S. Cyprian who died an holie martyr and is no doubt a sainct in heauen holde with you against the Apologie but with it against you most plainly in this and all other places whiche you haue vntruelie alleged and all reasons that you haue vnreasonablie gathered and violently wrested against it out of S. Cyprian And I trust that of this suche like vndiscreate allegations it will appeare to the wise reader how little cause M. Dorman had to triumphe as though S. Cyprian were of his side altogether and withall so insolentlie to raile vpon vs saiyng that it were better with S. Cyprian to liue and die in the obedieÌ„ce of this Priest
ecclesiaruÌ„ esse coÌ„suetudineÌ„ vt ad eos qui longè iÌ„ minoribus vrbibê° per presbyteros diaconos baptizati sunt episcopus ad inuocationeÌ„ sanctispuÌ„s manuÌ„ impositurus excurrat c. That is I doo not denie this to bée the custome of churches that y e bishop doeth come to those that be Baptised in lesser tounes by Priestes deacons to laie his hand vpon them with the inuocatioÌ„ of the holy ghost And shortly after he saieth Quòd si hoc loco quaeris quare in ecclesia baptizatus nisi ê‘ manus episcopi noÌ„ accipiat spirituÌ„ sanctuÌ„ queÌ„ oeÌ„s asserimus iÌ„ vero baptismate tribui disce haÌ„c obseruationeÌ„ ex ea autoritate descendere ê™ post ascensum dnÌ„i spuÌ„s sanctê° ad apostolos desceÌ„dit Et multis iÌ„ locis idem factitatuÌ„ reperimus ad honoreÌ„ potius sacerdotij quam legis necessitateÌ„ Alioqui si ad episcopi taÌ„tùm imprecationeÌ„ spuÌ„s sanctê° defluit lugeÌ„di sunt qui in viculis aut in castellis aut iÌ„ remotioribus locis per praesbyteros diaconos baptizati antè dormierunt quà m ab Episcopis inuiserentur Ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet cui si non exors quaedam ab omnibus eminens detur potestas tot in ecclesiis effictentur schismata quot sacerdotes That is to saie If you aske in this place wherefore he that is Baptised in the Churche doeth not receiue the holie ghost but by the handes of the bishop the whiche holie ghost we all doo affirme to bee geuen in true Baptisme Learne this obseruation to come of that authoritie that after the ascension of our Lorde the holie ghost came doune vnto the Apostles And we finde that the same is dooen in many places rather for the honour of Priesthoode then of the necessitie of the lawe Els if the holie Ghoste come doune onelie at the praier of the bishop thei are to be lamented who being baptised by Priestes and deacons in little tounes and villages or places further of doo dye before thei be visited by the bishops The healthe of the church dependeth vpon the estimation of the chief Priest who if he haue not authoritie pearelesse and aboue all other ye shall haue in the churche so many schismes as there be Priestes Thus farre S. Hierome whose woordes I haue repeated at large and in the last place without any intermission haue ioigned the verie woordes by D. Hardyng and M. Dorman alledged to S. Hieromes woordes nexte before Whereby it is moste euidente that S. Hierome speaketh of euery bishop in his owne diocesse and of the priestes and deacons that bée vnder hym in his said diocesse And that the authoritie which S. Hierome saieth the Bishop hath is the authoritie of laiyng his handes vpon children or other lately baptised by inferiour ministers and curates in villages of the said diocesse whiche authoritie is apperteinyng to all bishops in their owne diocesse that bishops haue that authoritie geueÌ„ them aboue other priestes or deacons beyng curates of smaller tounes and villages in their diocesse not by the necessitie of Gods lawe but for the honour of their bishoprike For if euery priest of the diocesse should in all poinctes bée of equall authoritie with the bishop there would arise so many Schismes by the arrogancie of the priestes as there bée priestes And for this cause hath euery bishop an authoritie pearelesse as M. Dorman dooth translate it and aboue all other priestes in his diocesse For it is euident by the places before alledged that comparison is made betwene priestes deacons and cuvates in smal tounes and villages who haue authoritie to baptise beeyng many and betwene the Bishop of the diocesse who is one and the high prieste in the saied diocesse and hath authoritie pearelesse ouer all other priestes and deacoÌ„s in the same diocesse And that there is no comparison here made betwene the bishoppe of Rome as the high prieste or bishop ouer all other priestes and bishops as D. Hardyng and M. DormaÌ„ without all shame would wrest it whereas there is not one woorde from the beginnyng of that longe dialogue of S. Hieromes vnto this place by them alleged nor to the ende of the same either written or meante of the bishop of Rome but of euery Bishop in his owne diocesse And therefore this whole matter is altogether impertinente to D. Hardyng and M. Dormans purpose of one onely heade ouer the whole Churche vnlesse M. Dorman would frame vs therof this leude argument Sainct Hierome saith that euery bishop ought to haue authoritie aboue all other priestes of his owne diocesse ergo the Bishop of Rome ought to haue a preemineÌ„ce pearelesse aboue all bishops of all diocesses and ouer the whole churche throughout the whole worlde Whiche maie well bee M. DormaÌ„s reason but fure I am that no reasonable man beyng awake will so reason To conclude you see it is not without great cause that D. Hardyng in his booke calleth this place of S. Hierome a notable place and saieth that it maie not be lette passe whiche his maisters woordes M. Dorman well noting â–ª would not suffer it to passe vntill he had by the handelyng thereof declared his notable foolishenesse Wherein as I doo little merueil of M. Dorman whom the leudeâ— the writyng is the better it dooeth become hym so can I not but muche muse how it should come to passe that doctor Hardyng or any of any honestie and learnyng should so abuse hymself and the readers with the allegation of suche impertinente places and with what conscience and shamefastnesse thei can doo it Vnlesse thei thinke that this excuse maie serue in matters of religion also Dolus an virtus quis in hoste requirat which is to saie What matter maketh it whether you vse fine force plaine truthe or guile with an enemie And therefore thei deale with vs rather as enemies then as doeth become themselues beyng Christians or as apperteineth to the treatie of religion woorthie of al truthe sinceritie Dorman fol. 5. And againe in an other place speakyng of the apostles he writeth thus Quòd vnus posteà electus est qui caeteris praeponeretur in schismatis remâ—dium factum est ne vnusquisque ad se traâ—ens ecclesiam rumperet That is That one was afterwarde chosen to rule the reste that was dooen for a remedie against schismes least while euery man would chalenge to hymself the churche by suche halyng and pullyng thei might breake the same No well S. Hierâ—me in his epistle to Euagrius she weth that praesbyter and episcopus a Priest and a bishop bee all one by the firste institution and by the Lawe of God whiche he proueth by many testimonies of the scâ—ipâ—ures and withall he declareth that the Apostles themselues were called praesbyteri that is to saie elders or priestes So that all bishops whiche be the successours of the Apostles bee also praesbyteri that is to saie
Canterburie and the bishop of LoÌ„don what titles so euer your bishoppes when thei were in those roumes vsed or abused I am sure thei who bee now in place take it for their chief honour to bee and to bee called also Gods ministers in his churche And as you shall neuer prooue any one head in earth temporall or spirituall â—uâ—r all so dooe I affirme that I shall more easilie prooue the title of heades of particular churches to appertaine to kynges princes who haue by Gods lawe the offices of ruling by dominion appoincted theÌ„ then you shal be able to maintaine that any suche presumptuous title can appertaine to bishoppes who are forbidden dominioÌ„ and haue ministerie to their office as I doubte nothyng but it shall hereafter clearlie fall out betwéene you and me to the satisuÌ„yng of all godlie and discreate readers and withall as I truste to the confusion of all Romishe vsurpers of that false supremacie Yet denie I not but that Bishops maie be and haue been though improperlie named heades euen by good writers as the Scholemaister of a prince in that the prince is his scholer is his heade ruler and gouernour though otherwise in deede he be the princes subiecte by hym and his lawes where he offendeth to be punished Dorman fol. 10. But Christe hath no suche neede our aduersaries crie still to haue any man to be in his steede to succede him in the whole enheritaÌ„ce Nam Christum semper adesse ecclesiae fuae vicario homine qui ex asse in integrum succedat non egere these bee their verie woordes in their Apologie Nowell It is true the Apologie and wee all likewise saie that neither hath Christ neede of any suche one onelie head Vicar ouer all his churche whiche M. Dorman a little before dooeth confesse hymself Neither is it Christes will to haue any suche head vicar For though M. Dorman affirme that he so would yet shall he neuer by the holie Scripture wherein Christes will is declared be able to prooue it Thirdlie it is impossible for any earthlie man to haue and to execute any suche office of vicar generall vnder Christ And I am sure that M. Dorman with the aide of all Papistes in Christendome is nt able to prooue these three poinctes or one of them vntrue Whiche yet thei must doo els lieth all Romishe supremacie in the duste Dorman Fol. 10. Here would I like a friende aduertise them that for their poore honesties sake thei harpe not to muche on this stryng least by their so dooyng thei come as nere the heresie of Suenkfeldius as he whom in their Apologie thei falselie sclaunder there with is farre bothe froÌ„ that all other For Suenkfeldius emongest other his abhominable heresies hath also this in my opinioÌ„ the chiefest that we ought to banishe vtterly froÌ„ emoÌ„geste vs al scripture and as Hosius writeth of him this heresie of his to derogate froÌ„ the scriptures all autoritie he went also about to proue by scripture But how I praie you good readers By what reasoÌ„ thinck you would he haue proued this diuelishe moste absurde doctrine Beleue me or rather your owne iudgementes seyng perceiuing moste plainly that I lye not by the self same reasons that our aduersaries dooe vse to prooue that Christes Churche here in earth can haue vnder hym no head or chief gouernor to gouerne the same Thou must not be parfecte in the scriptures saieth this stinckyng heretike Swenckfield But why Because forsooth we must be taught at Gods mouthe because his worde teacheth truely the Scripture is not his woorde but dead letters and no more accompt to be made of theÌ„ then of other creatures amongeste the whiche thei are to bee reconed VVee muste looke to bee taught from heauen not out of bookes The holie ghoste vseth to come from aboue without the helpe of meanes as hearyng preachyng or readyng the scriptures Theise bee that wicked heretike his foolishe and vnsauery persuasions And what other thing is it I praie you good readers iudge indifferentlie to saie as the Huguenotes heretikes dooe then to leaue and reste apon the same groundes for the banishyng of the head of Christes Churche on whiche the Swenckfeldians dooe for the abolishyng of the scripture For the one saith we must haue no scripture because God can teache vs without the other we muste haue no heade of Christes churche because he is the head hymself and can rule vs without any other to be his vicair The one saieth the scriptures are but dead letters and no more accompte to be made of them then of other creatures the other saieth that the Pope is but a synfull manne as other are and that therefore there is no more accompte to bee made of hym then of other synfull men Finallie the Swenckfeldians barre God of all meanes to worke his will by and so doe the protestantes while thei alowe hym not a minister to gouerne his churche in external gouernment but tell hym that he is of age and able to dooe it hymself and that therefore there is no remedie but he muste needes come doune and geue answere to all our wise demaundes in his owne persone Nowell A friendlie man at neede and a trustie counsailer and as good and piththie a reasoner for the Pope as trustie friend to vs Who hath little regard to his own poore honestie and lesse to the cause whiche he maintaineth when of blinde malice harping vpon a wrong stryng woorse then euer did yet any blinde harper before hym he would haue vs séeme like to Suenkfeldius from whose vile heresies we be as farre as the Papistes be nere vnto them whiche shall I trust appeare euidentlie euen by M. Dorman his own harpyng vpoÌ„ this string Whiche string yet he confesseth here in his marginall note y t he learned of Harper Hosius to strike after this sorte no doubt but vpon respecte of his poore honestie he thought it meete once to confesse that he alwaies dooeth boldlie borowyng of other and braggyng thereof as of his owne whiche thyng is moste vsuall as well to his maister D. Hardyng as to al other the aduersaries now writyng But to the matter first that wee are moste contrarie to Swenkefcilde and his heresies by the bookes of our men written largely againste them is moste manifest and the same shall bee made more euident and manifest by M. Dorman hymself in this place Suenkfeldius saieth M. Dorman holdeth this abhominable heresie that wee ought to banishe vtterly from emongeste vs all scriptures Wee saie that wee ought aboue all thynges to reteine the holie Scriptures and that besides them there is nothyng but errour and darkenesse Thou muste not bee perfecte in Scriptures saieth this stinckyng heretike Swenckfield These be M. Dormans woordes of hym Wee saie euery Christian ought to bee studious of the holie Scriptures and to labour to attaine to as greate perfection therein as mortall menne possiblie maie
the dominion of all the worlde it self also to apperteine to hym â–ª whiche neuer yet did any besides hym but the Deuill himself of whom whether the Pope holde it by inheritaunce as his eldest soonne and heire or by ferme as his tenaunte geuerall or as his deputie and Bailiffe errande I knowe not but sure I am that what right so euer he hath therto and by what tenure so euer he holdeth it he holdeth it of the Deuill who chalengeth the same as chief Lorde and hath made offer thereof to suche as would wholie serue hym But GOD I am sure or our Sauiour Christ neuer made any suche offer or promise to any mortall man naie our Sauiour Christe as he hymself refused suche offer made to hym so he specially forbiddeth the affectatioÌ„ of suche worldly dominion to all his Apostles consequentlie by them to all the Cleargie Where as M. Dorman proceadeth saiyng that wee tell Christe that he is of age and able to dooe it hymself and that therefore there is no remedie but he muste needes come doune and geue answere to all our wise demaundes in his owne persone I truste all men doo knowe that M. Dorman did know that he lied leudelie wheÌ„ he did write this For he knoweth right well as shortly hereafter hymself coÌ„fesseth the same that wee thinke it enough that Christe hath once come doune to teache vs and that wee looke for none other answere of Christe then he hath alreadie geuen in his holie Gospell whiche he preached once for all in his corporall presence and confirmed the truthe of the same by visible and corporall miracles and that therefore he speakyng and answeryng vs in his holie woorde to all demaundes necessarie for our saluation needeth not any corporall presence his woorde and Gospell written satisfiyng vs as well as though wee did se hym and heare hym speake with our corporall eyes and eares And maister Dorman and all the aduersaries to the truthe maie bee ashamed to charge vs as not allowyng Christe meanes to woorke his spiritual grace by but vexyng hym by callyng for his corporall presence wheras thei themselues as those that thinke he can dooe nothing excepte he bee corporallie present would turmoile hym euery howre and minute also from place to place yea and would imprison hym also in narrowe and streight roumes passyng little ease in the towre of London manifolde And so thei allowyng hym no meanes to woorke by but that he muste needes come doune in his owne persone dooe as iustlie ioigne in this poincte with Suenkfeldius as thei falslie charge vs therewith whereas wee dooe acknowledge that Christe though corporallie absente by his diuine power is able and dooeth dailie and howerly woorke his manifolde graces in vs by sundrie ordinarie meanes suche as hymself hath appoincted and instituted and that by his moste holie woorde he dooeth teache vs as effectuallie as though he were corporallie presente And by his blessed Sacramentes of Baptisme and of his supper he deriueth as it were his graces vnto vs by the one regeneratyng and reuiuyng vs in hymself who were before vnhappilie borne and deade borne in Adam by the other nourishyng refreshyng our hungrie and thristie soules with the foode of his blessed bodie and bloude as effectuallie as though he were with vs corporally present This dooeth M. Dorman and the aduersaries knowe therfore when M. Dorman saith that we barre Christe of all meanes to woorke by M. Dorman and all the worlde muste also needes knowe that M. DormaÌ„ lieth bothe shamefullie and wittyngly too Now that you vnderstande how M. Dorman hath moste vntruelie charged vs as allies to Suenkfeldius who doo moste abhorre and are moste farre from hym his vile heresies let me sée whether as I haue shewed a verie great likenesse conformitie to be betwene SueÌ„kfeldius the Papistes in this laste poincte of allowyng Christ no meane to woorke by and therefore requiring his corporall presence so I can prooue the like coÌ„formitie betwéen them him likewise in al other pointes by M. Dorman here specified Suenkfeldius emoÌ„gst others holdeth this most abominable heresie That we ought to banishe vtterlie from emongeste vs all Scriptures Dooe not the Papistes themselues forbiddyng the scriptures to be readde of the Laitie kéepyng the scriptures hid in an vnknowen tongue burnyng the scriptures written in knowen language go as nere to this abominable heresie of Suenkfeldius as wee are moste farre from the same Who dooe iudge and teache that all men of all sortes ought with diligence to reade or heare the scriptures Thou must not be perfecte in the Scriptures saieth this stinkyng heretike Suenkfeldius the scripture is not his worde but dead letters and no more accompte to be made of them then of any other creatures emongest the whiche thei are to be rekened Thou must not bee perfecte in the scriptures saie these false Papistes to all laie men it is ignoraunce that is the mother of deuotion it sufficeth a laie man to haue fidem implicitam an implicate faithe yea so implicate that the moste parte of seelie men vnder Poperie caÌ„ no more explicate what thei beleue then can a Popiniay yea and Popiniaye like bothe rehearsyng that their implicate faithe and praiyng in a straunge language thei can no more tell what thei saie then dooth the Popiniay whiche biddeth her dame good night maistres at midde daie And the Papistes speake of the holy scriptures not onelie as vnreuerentlie and abominablie as euer did Swenkfield but dooe farre passe hym in al outrage calling the Scriptures moste contumeliously and blasphemousâ—ie a nose of waxe and affirmyng it to be but an vncertaine thyng and like a rule of Lead appliable to euery wicked sentence and to all purposes excepte it haue the Popes direction as a moste certaine infallible rule I will rehearse the verie wordes of that blasphemous beaste and as Popishe a swine as euer was Swenkfielde a stinkyng heretike I meane Pighius in his Hierarchie or defence of the Popes supremacie written in our time of whom Hosius hath béen as bold to borowe his reasons and authorities as your maister doctor Hardyng hath been bolde to borowe of Hosius and as you M. Dorman haue been bolde with D. Hardyng hymself your maister to whom you owe a greate part of this your booke suche as it is Pighius woordes are these Sunt scripturae vt non minus verè quà m festiuè dixit quidaÌ„ velut nasus cereus qui se horsum illorsum in quam volueris partem trahi retrahi fingique facilè permittit tanquam plumbea quedam Lesbiae aedificationis regula quam non sit difficile accoÌ„modare ad quiduis volueris Et rursum Suprà indicauimus scripturas facilè trahi quocunque velut pluÌ„beam quandam regulam haud difficulter applicari impiae cuiuis sententiae c. These are his verie woordes whiche in English are thus muche The scriptures as
ordre Loo sir a merueilous estate in the Christen world that Hosius hath attained too to ride on horsebacke whiche by like he might not doo before by vertue of his Varmiense bishoprike in Polonia and to weare a redde hatte I thinke the seruyng men of Englande of late yeres vsyng scarlet cappes as broade as hattes and when they went abroade any thyng farre ryding also haue well left that vsage though not of riding yet of wearyng redde vpon their heades els might they haue perhaps runne in daunger of the Popes curse by such presumption so to ride and to weare redde as doo his Cardinalles And lest ye thinke I doo but ieste Pope Paule the seconde about an 100. yeres agoe as saieth the same Platine Publico decreto mandauit proposita poena ne quispiam bireta coccinea ita appellant capitis tegmen praeter Cardinales ferret quibus etiam primo pontificatus sui anno pannum eiusdem coloris dono dâ—dit quo equos vel mulas sternerent dum equitant Voluit praeterea in decretum referre vt galeri Cardinalium ex serico coccineo fierent sed id quo minus c. That is to saye Pope Paule the seconde by publique decrée commaunded and that vpon a payne appoineted that no man should weare a scarlet birret cappe or hatte so they call the coueryng of the head sauing onely the Cardinals to whom also the firste yere of his Papacie he gaue clothe of the same colour to couer their horses or mules withall whyles they ryde Yea and further he woulde haue made a decrée that the hattes of the Cardinalles should be made of silke sâ—arlet But that this was not decreed those letted which iudgeyng rightly sayde that the pompe of the churche was to be diminished not to bee encreased with the hurt of Christian religion Thus farre Platine Nowe you sée the parishe priestes of Rome who from Peters time vntill Paschalis the first whiche was about eight hundreth yeres were not able to paye for their horse bread mounted nowe vpon Mules and not only them selues but their Mules also ouerspredde with scarlet that they may be worthy chapleines of that purpled strumpet that S. Iohn in his reuelation speaketh of beyng clothed in redde scarlet and dronken with redde wyne and more dronken with the redde bloude of the sainetes of God This is that great estate whiche M. Dorman braggeth that Hosius is come to of a Bishop in his countrey become a parysh prieste in Rome For that is the office of a Cardinall in déede as to this daye the very titles of their Cardinallike dignities doo testifie Cardinalis tit Sanctae Priscae as was this Pope Pius the fourth that nowe is before his Papacie And Pope Paulus the thirde and Pope Paulus the fourthe were before Cardinales Ostienses either of Ostia a towne not farre from Rome or of Ostiensis porta a gate in Rome of the parish next to the which gate they wer by like persons Pope Marcellus 2. Cardinalis tit S. Crucis in Hierusalem which is a parish church in Rome Pope Iulius 3. before Cardinalis Praenestînus of Praeneste a town neare to Rome Pope Clemens 7. Cardinalis tit S. Laurentij in Damaso a parish church in Rome Pope Hadrianus 6. antè Cardinalis tit PaÌ„machij a parish churche in Rome Pope Leo. 10. antè Cardinalis S. Mariae in Dominico a parish churche in Rome And our twoo countrey men Cardinall Poole Cardinall Wolsey the one Cardinalis tit S. Mariae in Cosmedin y e other tit S. Ceciliae two parish churches in Rome Pope Pius 3. antè Cardinalis tit S. Eustachij Pope Innocentius 8. antè Cardinalis tit S. Lucinae Pope Xistus 4. tit S. Eudoxiae Pope Paulus 2. tit S. Marci foure parishe churches in Rome with many suche like extant in Platinae and Onuphrius but I thought it sufficient to note the Cardinalities whiche these last popes possessed before their papacie Finally Hosius himselfe is Cardinalis tit S. Laurentij of a byshoppe in his countrey by a notable promotion become curate of S. Laurence parish I meruell that M. Dorman doth not bragge of the ease as well as of the honour that Hosius hath gotten by his Cardinals hatte that he shall not be compelled in his owne proper person to méete great estates on the way but by the priuilege and after the manner and custome of the courte of Rome may sende his moyle with a lackie to méete them so that his Cardinals hatte hange vpon the pommell of his sadle for honours sake by the figure Synecdoche continens pro contento a Cardinalles hatte for a Cardinalles head suche is the guise of the courte of Rome deridyng princes and great estates yea and all the worlde too This ease with this honourable hatte hath Hosius atteined other greate gaine I thinke he hath none For the greatest pension that the Popes holinesse geueth yearly to his Cardinals is a 1000. crownes that pensioÌ„ he geueth to such poore chapleines as haue not yet two or thrée byshop rikes or abbacies to finde them Cardinallyke Neither geueth he it frèely but they pay swéetly for it to the holy father who selleth sacra ac prophana omnia iuxta regulam Omnia venalia Romae accordynge to the lore of his first predecessour whose knowen sentence is Quid vultis mihi dare Unlesse Hosius for his paynes taken in writing for the defence of the Papacie now in daunger of vtter ruine be more lubberally dealth with than others hitherto vsually haue béen Though I haue been longe about this great estate good reader yet I thinke it neither vnpleasant nor vnprofitable to thee to vnderstande the origine progresse and fine of this greate estate of Cardinalles who being originally poore parish priestes leauinge their cures and vsurpinge all worldly dignitie are become méete chapleines to that false vppermoste vsurper who beinge in déede the bishoppe of one onely cite a litle parcell of the vniuersall worlde chalengeth the supremacie not onely ouer all the churche of Christe dispersed throughout the world but also the dominion ouer all the worlde it selfe and all the kingdomes therein and therfore hath he made his pelting parish pries tes princes péeres nay their superiours that he myght haue Chapleines méete for so great a Lorde as he is Nowe concerninge Hosius his great learninge it is not without cause that M. Dorman dooeth so excéedingly auance it For as M. Dorman hath borowed this his booke of D. Harding so hath D. Harding borowed all this his and your treatie of the Popes supremacie of Hosius And Hosius hath borowed it of Pighius Hierarchie and Pighius hath borowed it of dronken Eckius the founder of all these mattiers in our dayes And most true it is that there is not one reason nor authoritie almost in all that great volume of Hosius against Brentius conteining fiue seuerall bookes but that he hath had out of Pighius Hierarchie and Alphonsus de haeresibus
haue we lost Is it not well and plainely declared by the examples of kyng Dauid Salomon Iosaphat Ezechias and Iesias that princes haue authoritie in gouerning of the Cleargie churche matters though they may not execute all ecclesiasticall functions and offices What though our most gracious soueraigne Ladie beynge a woman haue not so great skill in feates of warre as haue hir capitaines haue not so good knowledge in the lawes of hir realme as hir Iustices and other learmed men in the lawes haue though she haue in all good learning and in the scriptures too more knowledge then had any of your Popes this seuen hundreth yeres I beleue and therefore no lette in that poinâ—te but she may be head of the whole churche as well and rather then the Pope what if shée sit not in publique iudgement nor determine controuersies as dooe hir Iustices or be not general of an armie as are the nobles hir subiectes What I saye if shée can noâ— execute all ciuill offices in hir owne person Would you therfore M. Dorman take from hir hir ciuill principalitie ouer hir subiectes that she shall not be their Prince and head vnder God Surely you may with as good reason dooe it as you woulde take away hir superioritie ouer hir clergie from hir for that she can not may not nor will not execute ecclesiasticall functions Though the quéenes maiestie haue not that vnderstanding of all the affaires of hir realme that experience in all thinges that actiuitie in executing theÌ„ that hath the whole body of hir most honorable Councell yet doothe the whole body of hir Councell though most honorable humblie acknowledge hir to be their head onely proude Priestes because some thinges are incident to their office whiche the Prince may not nor liste not to dooe refuse their soueraigne to be their supreame gouernour Let the bishoppes be the Queenes Maiesties most godly Councell in matters of religion and I pray God they may so be as is the other moste honorable Councell in ciuill matters but let that godly Councel as well as that most honorable Councel be vnder the godly and moste highe honorable Prince as superiour to them both To commande thinges as well ecclesiasticall as ciuill to be done to sée them done to commende and rewarde all well dooers of them to correct and punishe all euill dooers of them or negligent in their office is the part of an head or supreame gouernour to doo thinges commaunded is the office of inferiour membres and obedient subiectes But M. Dorman would proue that the head is not the head because it can not nor liste not dooe all offices of all the principall membres of the bodie and séeketh for an head emongest the membres because they can dooe some thinges that the head can not For this is in déede the very effecte of that his seconde long treatie next folowyng a matter moste méete for M. Dormans dreaming head in the which treatie his chiefe paines is tâ— prooue that Priestes and not Princes ought by theyr office to preache to minister the Sacramentes to excoÌ„municate to absolue to resolue men â—n doubtes and scruples of conscience and suche liâ—e whiche no man euer denied yea and he thinketâ— that in so dooinge he hath spunne a fayre thréede Thus muche hath M. Dorman by his transition annexed to th end of this his treatie of one head occasioned me to admonishe the readers of that matter whiche as it may suffice for an answeare to the whole treatie folowing with all discreate readers so shall I yet for the satisfiyng of the meaner sort particularly answeare as muche as shal be left vntouched by the bishop of Sarisburie for the same matters as being before handled by D. Harding are incideÌ„t to the bishops answeare of his booke specially if there he any thyng sounding against the Princes supreame gouernment ouer persons and in causes as well ecclesiasticall as ciuill or temporall FINIS Fol. 3. 5. 14. 22. 60. 72. c. Fol. 65. M. Rastell in his praeface to continue the memorie of the chaleÌ„ge c. and to moue an expectation vvhich part shall firste shovv her weakenes c. * And againe he saith specially vvhere the nuÌ„breis great c. D. Hard. saith he did prepare his booke but for one friend and M. Rastell his booke for one friende alone in their prefaces to the Reader D. Harding in his preface to the B. of Sarum fol. 1. a. 2. b. and M. Rastell fol. 1. b. Math. 22. b. 16. c. Math. 22. d 35. Luc. 10. d. 25 In his preface Rastell in praefatâ—â—ne â–ª M. Rastell in his preface fol. 1. saithe I am but a comon souldiour amonge the orders of diuines and therfore I must stande behinde so manie bishops Doctors bachelers and scholars in diuinitie I vvill vvith a penknife deminish his lustie bloud Let the olde souldiours vvith great svvoordes and pikes kill his heresie * And againe M. Rast saith he will proue M. Iuell may be answered by a meane Scholer in Diuinitie that he nedeth not to prouoke the best of the Catholikes lyuinge D. Harding fol. 5. D. Harding fol. 75. b. M. Rastell in his praefa econfesseth his booke to haue bene begun four yeeres agoe fol. 119. * Raylinge Reuilynge â–ª Ribalrie Dorman fol. 110. â— 1. 2 3 4 Math. 7. c. 15. Mar. 12. d. 38. Luc 20. g. 46. Iohan. 18. e. 28. f. 31. Domine iâ—dex rogam vos c. Vt in actis Regist LoÌ„dinensiâ— Marc. 12. Luc. 20. Act. 22. a. 3. It is to be founde fol. 49 b. of the first print and fol. 50. b. of this print Nowell It is Epist â— Lib. epist 3. Epist 11. Lib. 4. Epist 9. Epist 61. 2â— Episcopos Italiam Galliam Nowell It is Epist 69. He should haue saied * thei inuade the chief roumes or places * he is compted more worthie to be the bishop of the people Hosius contra Brentium lib â–ª 1. folio 24. lib. 5. fol. 249. In oratione habita in consistorio Romae 1564. Februario mense typis excusa Basil epist 69. a Defecerunt qui pascunt cuÌ„ scientia ouile domini b Aconomias pauperum in proprias voluptates iÌ„sumuÌ„t c Annihilata est canonum sinceritas d Licentia peccandi multa c. e Serui enim sunt eoruÌ„ qui beneficiuÌ„ contulerunt Nowell Hosius against Brentius lib 2 Fol. 42. hath the same Basilius Epistola 70. Persequutionem patiuntur pastores vt disê‘gantur oues gregis Lib. 6. ca. 30. Nowell It is cap. 3. and not 30. The like is Eusebii libr. 6. cap. 43. and in sundrie Epistles of S. Cyprian vvho dooth speake moste of Nouatianus The banishement of scholers from the vniuâ—rsities for refusing to svveare against the Pope Eusebius libr. 6. cap. 43. Cyprianus li. 3. Epist 13. Eusebius li. 6. cap. 43. Nicephorus lib. 6. cap. 3. Cyprianus lib. 4. epist 9. Cyprianus li. 2. epi. 8 IdeÌ„est Nouatus qui apud â—os primum discordiae