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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A04491	A dialoge describing the originall ground of these Lutheran faccions, and many of their abuses, compyled by syr William Barlow chanon, late byshop of Bathe; Dyaloge descrybyng the orygynall ground of these Lutheran faccyons, and many of theyr abusys	Barlow, William, d. 1568.	1553 (1553)	STC 1462; ESTC S101046	40,661	178

go from hys opynyon Wherefore after a sufficient delyberation seynge he woulde tourne by no meanes sentence was geuen that he shoulde be burned N. In good faythe well worthy but was he burned in deede W. No. For when he shoulde haue gone to the place of execution accordynge to the vsaunce of the countrye he was first brought before the towne howse and there his artycles recyted He was asked whether they were the very same which he hadde affyrmed before them He aunswered ye Howbeit nowe he sayd God hath opened my ignoraunce I acknowlege me slaunderousely to haue erred askynge you all forgyuenes I beleue perfytely that Jesus Chryst is my sauyour and am redy in his fayth to suffre thys deth prepared for me The lordes then where as they had giuen sentence that he shuld haue ben burned for a more easye deth they assigned him to be be hedyd whereof he thanked thē and went towarde the place of iustyce patiently takynge hys death with great repentaunce N. This may be a good admonisshment that men shoulde not be so wauerynge in fayth as to geue credence in all thinges to any persone for the onely pretence of exterioure holines in as muche as the deuyll can transfygure hym selfe into an angels lykenes and a false peruerter take vppon hym the offyce of a trewe Apostle Moreouer I consider by your cōmunicacyon and playne experyence here rehearsed that yf the frowarde sturdynes of vnruly people were not restrayned by lawes prohibitions sharpe punyshmentes euery common weale woulde be sone subuerted and the whole world come to noughte W. As for that ye may take example not farre hens at the county of Emdone in East Fryselande where the earle ruler of the county fyrste receyuyng Martyn Luthers doctryne afterwarde Oecolampadius opynion suffered his people to read all maner of Bookes and to be of what so euer secte or opynion they would without any restraynt Shortelye after one of theyr cheife preachers whiche hadde bene a freer obseruante a man of subtyle learnynge and pleasaunt speache hyghlye estemed among the people beganne to preache in openne audience agaynst the blessed trinitie sayenge that there was but one person one God and that our Sauyour Christe was a creature as we are a pure man and not God but hauynge goddes spyryte This caused not a lyttle dyscorde betwene the preachers and the people for many of the country leaned vnto him takynge his parte so stronglye that the earle was fayne to banyshe hym oute of hys domynion all be it hys pestyferous sede remayned styl Then cam thither doctour Baltazar and after hym Carolstadius bryngynge in the faction of the Anabaptistes to y● augmentinge of greater confusiō For wher as some christened theyr chyldren theyr next neyghbours wolde not one condemnyng another with dedly hatred The meane ●eason a certayne skynner of Denmarke in the Dukedome of Holsatye where Martyne Luthers doctryne was onely in strength preched Oecolampadius opinion with so craftye argumentes that Martynes fame began to decreace Wherfore doctoure Pomerane was sent from Wyttenberge to dyspute agaynst hym and in conclusion obtayned the vyctorye throughe partiall fauoure as some reported of the duke and Lordes of the cytyes of Homburghe and Breame whyche immediatly commaunded that no man shulde be so hardye to contrarye or swerue from the doctryne of Martyn Luther vnder payne of banysshynge and other punysshement Thē two prechers of Breame were sent to Emdone to dyswade the earle his people from Oecolampadius opinion and from the confuse dyuersyte of other sectes also to reduce theym agayne vnto Martyn Luthers wayes The earle with his coūcell at theyr perswasyons alienated theyr mindes frō Oecolampadius streytely charging all those preachers whiche had susteyned his faction or anye other sauynge Martyn Luthers to departe oute of hys countrye by a certayne daye apoynted Then was it a wonder to se what murmuration grudge and rumoure of sedycion was amonge the people not withoute lykelyhed of fallynge together by the eares insurrection agaynste theyr prynce had not he sought prouydent meanes to pacyfy thē This cōtinued no longe space but letters came from Argentyne Basyle zyricke Bearne and from many persons of notable erudition after theyr estemynge also from the prynce of Hesse aduertisyng the earle wyth seryous exhortation to call home agayne the preachers of Oecolampadius factiō and reprehendyng his sodayn mutabylytie from theyr institute so apparente by manyfest coniectures to preuayle aboue the other At whose importune requestes and subtyle instygacyons he chaunged yet agayne hys purpose and gaue the Oecolampadian preachers licence to returne into theyr olde places and lybertie to preache as they were before accustomed commaunding silence vnto the other or elles auoydaunce of his countrye Lo thus may ye se what varyable inconstancye and sondry mutations of condemned heresyes hath ensued with euident confusion where as people be deuided from the v●itye of the christen church contemne to walke after the wholsome decrees of catholike fathers wrestynge the ryght sence of scryptures vnto theyr crooked ymaginacyons And specyallye where the brydle of sensualite is set at large to the sturdye frowardnes of sedicyous subiectes sometime by the effeminat tēdernes of princes so negligētly regarded y● afterwarde theyr fearfull rygour is scant able to redresse it which hath bene the lamentable dekay of the Boemes and is now the ruynous myscheife of the hye Almaynes not vnlykely to be the desolation of christendome yf remedy be not founde in season N. Sauynge your pacyence me thought ye declared here y● the Land graue of Hesse is a fauourer of Swinglius Oecolampadius who wyth his people as I vnderstande admytteth Martyn Luthers wayes and none other W. I wyll not denye but he maynteyneth styl Martyn Luthers doctryne albeit synce the dysputation was before hym he hath fauoured so greatlye the opynion of Oecolampadius and Swinglius y● were it not as I deme for feare of displeasynge hys confederate cosyne the duke of Saxony and frentyke perturbation of Martyn Luther he wolde haue sustayned it openlye ere this tyme. Wytnesse the gloryous comendation vnto their faces whiles they were present and synguler preferremēt of thē amonge hys famylyer counsellers also hys beneuolent lyberalytie at theyr departyng wyth letters afterward betwyxe thē farsed full of paynted prayses ī theyr absence N. I beseche you when and vnder what maner was thys dysputation W. In the yere of our Lord. 1528. the prince of Hesse in his cheife cyte of Marburge caused there to be assembled Martin Luther Melancton Oecolāpadius Swinglius Capito Butzer wyth many other of y● most famous clerkes of the Lutheranes and Oecolampadianes the Anabaptistes onely excluded where dyuers artycles were doubtfully proponed to y● nomber of .xv. whyche before tyme hadde bene discussed and clerely determyned in general counselles of the vnyuersall church And when they had by longe processe vnfrutefully disputed aboute the iustificacion of fayth without good works of baptysme and other questyons vpon which they had written whole bokes yet

vnto them whych is apartely proued by the oracyō of king Abya Roboams sone laynge to the people charge that they forsoke god made them goldē calues expu●syng the prestes deakons of goddes ordynaunce and instytutynge other after the order of hethē ydolaters Wherto agreeth in defence of mine opinion the generall confessyon of the people with theyr vnyuersall submissiō in knowlege of theyr trespaces recited in sondry places of scripture after thys forme we haue synned with our forefathers we haue done wickedly haue cōmitted iniquite all we haue transgressed thy commaundementes And surelye as the worlde is nowe crokedlye enclyned to malyce yf God sent heades and Prynces accordyng to thedeuelyshe appetites of much people the welth of this region wold be sone subuerted euery state brought to confusion albeit they other wyse coloure it and make as though they ment none harme but rather much deuotion that the vnlearned would haue the Scripture in theyr handes for none other cause but onely to preache secretly to them self for lacke of good preachers abroade But then in dede it appereth that they preach to thē selfe and theyr neyghbours to many an horryble heresye and abuse the scripture to the colorable defence of the same And then are they also to all Tyndals bokes whiche for the manyfolde mortall heresyes conteyned within the same openlye condempned and forbyddē they are I saye yet vnto those bokes so sore affectionate that neyther the condempnation of them by the clergy nor the forbydding of them by the kinges hyghnes with his open proclamations vpon greate paynes nor the daūger of open shame nor parell of paynfull deth can cast thē out of some fond folkes handes and that folke of euery sorte Howe thynke ye then these folke wold haue bene stomaked how many mo wold haue blustred out with them yf the mayntenaūce of the prynces and the states of the realme whych our lorde defende had bene vppon they re syde And where about wolde they then haue gone aboute no great good ye maye be sure Se ye not the vyllayne beggers and valyaūt vagaboundes whom god plageth with pouer te and myserye for theyr abom ynable lyuyng dysposed to no goodnes howe hartely they wysshe for a ruffelynge daye Beholde euery state all moste in euery chrystē realme as husband mē artyfycers marchaunts courtyers with all other degrees as well spyrituall as temporal I fere me that ye shall saye but if god of his goodnes amēde vs the soner there shall come to passe amonge vs the ferefull iugemēt of god spoken by the prophete Osee to the people of Israhell and inhabyters of the lande There is no truthe no mercye nor scyence of god in the yerth Cursynge lyenge manslaughter theft and aduowtrye hathe ouer flowen bloode hathe towched bloode for the which the yerth shall wayle and euery inhabyter in it shall be feebled And this as I haue sayde not one contrey fawty another fawtles one estate fowle and deformed and another pure clene the spyrytualtie synful and the temporaltie set all on vertue the heades rulers culpable the people oute of blame nor that any estate maye laye the hole weight of Goddes wrath vnto the other and therof discharge them selfe but eche of theym is cause both of theyr own harme and other folkes to And the people are nothynge lesse fawtye prouokynge the wrathe of God than theyr heades or gouernours nor one state partyculerlye cause of anothers calamytie But all we together haue synned haue deserued the vengeaūce of God whiche hangeth before our eyes redy to fall ere we be aware N. In this poynt ye haue ryghte well satisfyed my mynde but what remedye now of reconciliacion agayne to God W. Forsoothe I knowe none but onely penaunce I saye not repentyng onely as Luther and Tyndall and these new folkes call it whiche wolde begyle vs make vs wene that we nede no more but onely repente and do no penaunce at all tellynge vs that Christes passion shall stand in stede of al our penaunce though we do neuer so euyl and lyue neuer so longe With this false doctryne they dryue many a soule to the deuyll makynge theym neglygente and take lyttell care or sorowe for theyr synne and so muche the more rechelesse in fallynge to synne agayne But I speake of pennaunce as it implieth both repētaūce of our synnes past the y● sacrament of penaunce wyth ●are sorow and bodely payn afflyccy on taken for our syn wyth prayer almouse other good workes to purchase the more grace that we shuld with recourse to confessyon the sacrament of penaūce dylgently prepare our selues in folowing the exāple ▪ of the Nyniuytes whyche at the preachynge of the prophete Jonas repented wyth ernest purpose of amendynge theyr lyues and dyd penaunce in deede in fastynge and prayer humblynge they re ●owles frome the moste to the least vnto the mercy of god N. wolde our lorde that we had such a prophete sent amōg vs to exhorte vs vnto penaūce as the prophete Jonas was to theym W. That were lyke to the request of the ryche glut tone in hell of whom the gospel telleth which desyred that Lazare myghte be sente to warne hys brethern to whom it was answered that hauynge Moyses the prophetes they shuld gyue credence to theym wher fore seynge that we haue holy scrypture which expresseth the rightwysn̄es of god declaring howe our forefathers were punysshed for theyr synnes yf we refuse to be warned by they re admonycyon truely we wolde be as neglygent to amende yf Jonas raysed frō death to lyfe shulde preache vnto vs. For we haue saynt John baptist a greater prohete than Jonas was cryēg to al sinners Do ye worthy frutes of penaunce of whom Christ wytnesseth that there is none greater than he amonge the chyldrē of womē Also oure saueour Christ hym self of whom saynt John̄ testyfyed that he was vnworthy to lose his shoe latchet preached penaunce sayinge Do ye pennaunce the kyngedome of heauen is at hande And in another place of the Gospell he sayth yf ye do not penaunce ye shall all peryshe And Saynte Peter his vy●ar here in earth vpon whom and whose faythfull confession he promysed to bylde his churche preached likewyse in his fyrste Sermone sayinge Do ye penaūce and be conuerted to God that youre synnes maye be done awaye Also saynt Paule the chosē vessell of God preached fyrste of al to them of Damasco that they shuld be penitent and turne to god perfourming the due workes of penaunce Cōfyrmynge the same when Christ appered vnto the .ii. disciples iorneinge to Emaus he sayd y● after his death and resurrection it behoued penaunce to be preached in his name and remission of sinnes for why the cause of his comynge was not to call ryghteous folk but sinners vnto penaunce And the aungelles of heauen reioyced not so greatly in nynty nyne iuste persons as vpon one synner doyng penaūce

in companye some symple prieste it is a wonder to here how heis apposed after that theyr spyrites be a lytell kyndled in glotony howe they lasshe out the Gospell Than begynneth one or a nother with his poty carye formalyte and holy daye granyte to moue some subtyle questyō sayng mayster person howe say ye to suche a texte of Paul And if the priest be ignoraunt for lacke of lernynge or maketh not an answere satysfyenge his mynde he is mocked and iested vpon with scornefull derysyon Then begyn they to canuasse the scrypture amonge them wyth fyllynge the cuppes ●oly gentyl chere And by that tyme they haue eatē more than ynoughe and haue dronken to much they be redy to wade forth in the depe mysteryes of scrypture wyllynge to be teachers of thinges wherof they vnderstand not what thei speake nor what they affyrme Then are they full armed to talke of abstynence and sobre dyet of the apostles their table beynge furnysshed with sumptuous dysshes and exquysyte deyntyes And where as their cupbordes be reallye garnysshed with costely plate and the tables full of cuppes and peces of syluer and golde than make they exclamacyōs agaist the rych iewellys of churches as crosses and chalyses saynge that better it were to make money of them and to be dystributed vnto pore people than they shulde perysshe for lacke of socoure Lykewise when they be seruyd at theyr solempnityes with counterfeyted curtesyes in bowynge the kne valyng the bonette hauynge sewers and karuers after a moste stately maner of seruyce wherin yf the offycers fayle neuer so lytell though it be but the settynge of a sawcer amysse they shall be rebukyd yet theyr peuysh pacyence can not breake the honeste ceremonyes of the churche to be lawdably done callynge theym folysshe fantasyes inuencions of ydyotes And though some of these new Gospellers occupie trewelie and iustly with their neighbours in face of the worlde behauynge them selfes charytably yet are they very few in cōparyson of the other whyche be raylers gesters vycyous lyuers fals hypocrytes with out any conscyence N. As for hypocrytes I thynke ye myght fynde soner amonge relygyous persons W. wyll ye beleue me I haue walked a great parte through oute all the prouynces of crystendome and haue sene and marcked the state of relygyous persons of dyuers orders yet sawe I neuer amonge them suche coloured hypocrisye so flesshely lybertye abused vnder the pretence of fayned holynes as amonge many of these late inuented faccyons And I certyfye you that ye maye fynde mo diuers sectes of erronyous opynyons among them in one cytie beyond the sea than be son drie orders of religious people in all Englande N. Suppose ye the gospell to be in faute of this W. Naye but the abuse of the people hauyng it in theyr vulgare language for whome it were better to receyue it by the mynystracyon of faythfull preachers than vnworthely to take it them selfs we haue in the Gospell that oure sauyour Christ fedynge the nōber of .v. thousand men besyde women and chyldren fyrst gyuyng thankes to his father he blessed the breade brake it gaue it to hys dyscyples and they dystrybuted it to the company and so they dyd eate and were sacyate N. Syr accordyng to thys the people shuld holde them very well content yf so be they had faythfull prechers to mynyster the word of god vnto thē But I put cause they haue none or elles that theyr peachers be suche as the prophete cōplayneth on which preache the vysyō of theyr hart not of the mouth of god seking also theyr owne worldly proffyte and not the gostly confort of theyr cures W. I beleue that god hath not lefte his church destytute of faythfull preachers wyth the whych he hath promysed to be continually present vnto the worldes ende How be it the fewer that they be the more fawte is to be imputed vnto the people because they aske not worthely of god trewe preachers For the gospell sheweth that the people came fyrst to Chryst and he per ceyuyng thē was moued wyth compassyon vppon theym becawse they were as sheepe hauynge no hearde and so feadynge theyr sowles spyrytually afterwarde he dyd ●epaste they re bodyes wyth corporall foode wherfore yf they in lyke maner approche vnto Chr●ste in whose name what so euer is desyred of the father shall be graūted he wyll also here gracyously theyr petycyon for the hande of god is not abreuyate nowe nor his power other wyse mynyss●ed than it was at that tyme. N. yet am not I so satysfyed wyth all the reasons that ye haue made but I thynke styll that it were lawfull for laye people to haue the new testament in Englysshe perauenture wyth alytell leyser I could lay suche scrypture for it that scant ye shulde be able to obiecte any contradyccyon W. ye shall haue leyser ynowgh But in the meane tyme this ye must consyder that our question is not whether it be lawfull to let them haue it but whether it be vnlawfull to kepe them from it and whether of the twayn is more mete and more expedyent specyally for the tyme that nowe is the people beyng dysposed as they now be and after suche ensample as we see before oure eyes with suche fruyte as we fynde growē therof in Almayne allredy and in many places euen here at home also But if euer the tyme come as I praye god it may in whyche the people shall be so good and so godly dysposed that an englysshe byble should do good itheyr handes yet might Tyndals translacyon in no wyse be suffered N. well I shall bethynke me tyll we mete agayne and then wyll I be so bolde also to take Tyndals parte in defence of hys translacyon and other bokes which he hath put forth in englysshe allegyng the best that I can for theyr alowance to th entent I maye see what stronge reasons ye can brynge to confute them W. Ther wyth am I ryghte well pleased and I trust with goddes help to answer you so effectuously that ye shall not count the tyme passed in vayne N. Than fare ye well tyll another season W. Oure lorde be wyth you FINIS Prynted at London in Paules Churcheyard by John Cawood Cum priuilegio ad imprimendum solum