see there he hath proved the Church of England to be as the Church of Rome is even Babylon a filthy cage of all unclean and hatefull birds But rather then you will take Mr. Barrowes advice and the counsell of the Holy Ghost to come from among them you will sooner helpe to hang all such Barrowes and then say it is the judgement of God upon them for none hath beene more forward then your selfe to persecute the Lords people as appeareth by your Writ of Ne admittas which you sent to the Parliament to keep the Petitions of the poore Saints out thence But it will not be for the Parliaments safety to take such wicked counsell as yours I hope the Parliament seeth by this time that God is making inquisition for bloud yea for the blrud of the Saints And therefore it is better that all sinne which hath beene committed should be repented of then that more should be added to the stock By all this you may see that the 4. things in the Apollogie which you say are good are good for us but not for you And if you had not beene benumed in your spirit you would never have taken up against us such weapons which if you had beene sensible you might have known would have come positively against your selfe But these tales which you tel in your Antipologia are like unto some of your tales which you tell the people in the Pulpit for there you say you will face the Separation and they will flie away but you are shrewdly mistaken For I who am one of the meanest dare give you the meeting and I hope to speed as well as I did when I met that ragged Regiment which you set out against Independency and Toleration which you called your Scout in your 8th Reason against Independency and joyned and subjoyned forces against Tolleration Moreover you say in your Antipologia that the Anabaptists cast away thir baptisme received in a false Church because they wil not put a new peice to an old garment And upon the same ground you say the Separation would have the Materiall Churches pulled down If this be one of the Anabaptists grounds as it may be it is then you may see their mistake For they ought to discerne between Baptisme in a false Church which is an Ordinance of God wch that Church hath stollen carried away in their Apostacie they ought I say to put a difference betwixt that and an Idol of their owne making as for example The circumcision which Jeroboam caried with him was Gods but the Calves were his owne Daggan and his Temple was the Philistems but the Arke was Gods And therefore if the Separates desire the pulling down of the Idols Temples they doe well but if these high places stand they will be no peice sowed to their garments for they touch them not But they have not been more forward in this good worke of the pulling downe of the Idols Temples then your self in writing to the Parliament for a whole and totall Reformation because they should not be blemished you would have them to pull downe the high places and all Idols and Idolatry as whosoever readeth your Epistle to your booke against Independency may see at large where your reasonable arguments are set down to the Parliament for that end and purpose But the Anabaptists have no such ground to put away their Baptisme which they received in a false Church as hath beene proved before The Calves and high places of Jeroboam were to be done away and it was their duty to demolish them because they were a curse to the Land and Idols of his owne making as hath beene said before But the Circumcision which was Gods which they carried away with them they brought againe to Gods Temple as wee have done our Baptisme and were accepted By all which it appeareth that you are able to lay no errour to the chage of the Separation Moreover in this your Antipologie you advance and extoll your booke against Independencie and Tolleration You say that the Apologists meant that as well as others which were written with strength against there way And secondly you affirme it to bee argumentall and that therefore it behoved either all or some of them to have answered it I Answer They know best what they have to doe yet for my owne part I did conceive it ought to have beene answered and therefore I answered it my selfe and that for these reasons First because you should not be wise in your owne conceit Secondly because I read that our Saviour Christ answered Sathan when Sathan brought false arguments against him and it is also written that we should be ready to give a reason of our hope to every one that shall aske us and I considering the many questions that you asked and the weakenesse of your reasons and arguments and the untruths of some of them and how contradictory they were to one another thought it very easie to undermine and overthrow them therefore I answered them holding it meet for those who were more able not to trouble themselves therewith but to be employed in matters of farre greater and higher concernement But seeing you are yet so bold as to stand in it to affirme that your booke was argumentall and ought to have beene answered by them all or some of them I desire againe to repeat the heads of some of the Cheifest of your arguments that so rationall men may consider whether they be truely Logicall The substance of your first Argument is this It s evident that the Church of God could not stand without some other helpe then Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors Teachers and all other Officers But you have not declared any evidence neither Scripture nor true reason what must wee then beleeve you upon your bare word I will not for that were to make you a God or at least one infalliably inspired Your second argument is that the Government of Independent or seperated Churches is not of divine institution because it forceth them to have Ministers without Ordination which thing is an untruth like your former as hath been proved at large in the Answer thereunto and there are divers untruths in this reason or section which have been answered as will plainely appeare to those that will take the paines to reade your booke and mine Your third is that it is not to be thought that Christ would leave such a Governement that affords no way of appeale c. This is answered at large that the Churches of the Separatâ—â—â—â— have true waies of appeale But the Church of England hath not These be your mighty Arguments of strength which deserved an answer though you proved none of them If the answer which I sent you already have not sufficiently proved your arguments to be groundlesse declare I pray you what substantiall point is not answered if there be any substantialls in them and it shall be answered by Scripture and
A NEW-YEARES-GIFT OR A BRIEF EXHORTATION To Mr. Thomas Edwards That he may breake off his old sins in the old yeare and begin the New yeare with new fruits of Love first to GOD and then to his BRETHREN PSAL. 7.14 15 16. Behold hee travelleth with iniquity and hath conceived mischiefe and brought forth falshood He made a pit and digged it and is fallen into the ditch which he made His mischeife shall returne upon his owne head and his violent dealing shall come downe upon his owne pate PSAL. 50.19 20 21. Thou givest thy mouth to evill and thy tongue frameth deceit Thou sittest and speakest against thy Brother Thou slanderest thine owne Mothers Sonne These things hast thou done and I kept silence thou thoughtest that I was altogether such a one as thy selfe but I will reproove thee and set them in order before thine eyes By KATHRINE CHIDLEY Printed in the Yeare 1645 The Introduction or Epistle To the Godly Reader THe cause which formerly moved mee to Answer Mr. Edwards his first Booke was First the frothinesse of his reasons for when I saw them light I thought a man of understanding would not medle with them because they were so rotten they could not hold together And I conceived that if hee were not answered at all he would then have abounded in vaine glory Secondly the hearing of the disturbance it made in the City the better party being greived that hee so discovered himselfe and the worser party domineering that Mr. Edwards was become their Champion moved me to take into consideration the difficulty and finding his booke to be as indeede it was a rangling-insinuating contradictory revengefull story it appeared unto me to be a taske most befitting a woman The consideration whereof moved me to answer it publikely as it was published And forasmuch as it plainely appeareth that this his second booke or Antipologie is of the same nature with his other and hath no more substance then it I doe affirme It was answered before it was written for it consisteth for the most part of tales and reports it is an unsavory history full of revengeful-slaunderous-accusations but abounding with reprochful jeeres and evill calumniations But I have now noted some things therein which concerne my selfe and all who feare God and walke in his way I meane the way of Separation that way which Paul walked in which way was then called herisie and so is still by Mr. Edwards and such as he Both I and my faithfull yoakefellow have joyntly tasted of the pressures of the Hyrarchy above these twenty yeares and the Bishops-Priests have driven us out of our place of abode 16. yeares agoe and we amongst the rest of the people of God are now prosecuted afresh by Mr. Edwards and such as he for he hath unjustly charged them to bee the movers of sedition and distubers of the Kingdomes By all which it appeareth that it concerneth the Separation principally to take notice of Shimies cursings and Rabshakes raylings and not only to consider that it may be God hath bidden them so doe but also to declare that what they doe is unjust which was one cause that moved me to endeavour according to my skill to unmaske the faces of those ungrounded arguments against Independencie and Tolleration in his former booke which I answered three yeares agoe And though he hath not ability to defend or relieve any one of those his arguments against Separation yet he chargeth others with neglect in not answering his first borne against that way in which booke he declared that though it was the first brought forth yet not the first conceived for that he had large tractates to put forth against the whole way of Separation I have waited these three yeares for the bringing of them forth but now it seemes to me It was a false conception Moreover I suppose that Mr. Edwards his painefull labouring thus ariseth out of feare least as Christ is exalted and as the hill of Syon appeareth more eminently then the Priests wil be in danger to loose some maintenance as hee hath in part expressed in his former booke * where he speaketh of their demanding dues And true it is that people rightly informed will not have their necks captivated under Jewish yoakes of tithes paying to maintaine a popish-ordained-Clergie for God requireth his people to maintaine no Ministry but their owne even such as labour with them in the word and doctrine and not those who labour against them And I know right well that the Ministers of the Separation have never beene chargeable to the Church of England neither have any of their poore Orphans beene left to any of her Parishes though their parents have suffered death in prison by the cruelty of the Prelates as I could name divers within these 10. yeares yet God turned his hands upon the little ones and provided for them according to his promise * so that as the righteous parents were never forsaken neither did their seede beg their bread And Remember good Reader that though Balack would have had the people of God cursed and Baalam would faine have had the wages yet at length he was constrayned to confesse that surely there was no inchantment against Jacob neither divination against Israel but according to this time saith he it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel what hath God wrought Behold the people shall rise up as a great Lyon lift up himselfe as a young Lyon he shall not lie downe untill he eate of the Prey and drinke the blood of the slaine Numb. 23. verse 23 24. K. C. A BRIEF EXHORTATION to Mr. Tho Edwards that he may breake off his old sins in the old yeare and begin the new yeare with new fruits of Love first to God and then to his Brethren Mr. EDVVARDS THe causes of my writing unto you at this time are three 1. Your threatnings 2. Your challenge 3. The out-cryes of the people against you for that which you delivered in Pulpits * where they expected to heare the Gospel of Jesus Christ Preached by you in stead whereof they heare proud boastings that you will after your skirmishing with the Separation take their Fort But peradventure you may by your fishing for others be caught your selfe Now our fort and fortresse is Jesus Christ and though you take him you shall never take him from us for he is all fulnesse to all and sufficiencie for all that draw neere unto him But whether you intend so to take him as to rest upon him or to take him as the High Priests Officers once tooke him to crucifie him let your hearers judge Sir you are a brave warriour and can fight well in a Pulpit where you are sure none shall come neere you so much as to give you an answer for proofe whereof witnesse your owne confession in your Antipologia that the Separatists will not come in your Churches Therefore you may easily make the people beleeve great
better Sacrifice then hee he should have beene condemned of his owne conscience for the way was never the worse for Caines miscarriage And the way that Jacob walked in was the way of God though the sonnes of Jacob sinned They were godly and holy men in the maine though they missied it in selling their brother And did not God visit them in mercy to bring them to a sight of their sinnes when he caused their sheafs to bow downe to Josephs sheafe in Egypt and caused Joseph to afflict them to put them in minde of their sinne yea did it not worke that good effect upon them for which the Lord sent it by causing them to accuse themselves saying we are verily guilty concerning our brother in that wee saw the anguish of his soule when hee besought us and wee would not heare therefore this evill is come upon us Nay did not God further illustrate Josephs glory before them not only by making all their sheafes to bow downe to his sheafe but in letting it be seene that the Sun and the Moone and the eleaven starres fell downe before him when they all went downe into Egypt wee will not deny but that the sonnes of Jacob did fatally miscarry yet the way of God wherein they walked was not therefore to be abhorred and yet their miscarriages are set before us all as land-markes that we should take heede of running upon such shelves And I hope these Apologists have not forsaken the wayes of truth for the miscarriages of some that have walked in the way before them for you say they have beene active for their way since And I hope that they know that the way was Christs though Judas betrayed his Master Annanias and Saphira discembled and Symon Magus was proud and one of the Church of Corinth committed fornication and Demas forsook the way and embraced the world and Diotrephus Antichrist like sought for preheminence and many Balaamites crept into their society who preached for wages and if any should have said that the way of the Gospel was not the way of Christ because these persons and such as these did miscarry it would have discovered great ignorance in them for though they were spots in their feasts of charity yet the Church of God had alwaies power to cast them out and that without the helpe of a Synod which hath beene proved at large in my answer to your booke against Independency and Tolleration So that though the Saints of God who are chosen vessells unto him should faile as Peter did in denying his Master through the slavish feare that hee was in of that company of Priests which Crucified Christ in that time and the beleeving Corinths wrought upon to eate things sacrifised to Idolls according to the doctrine of Balaam as some of the Church of Pergamus and Thyatira were yet notwithstanding these personall infirmities the way of God wherein they walked ought not to bee abhorred but wee are to make the same use of these fatall miscarriages now as the people of God were to make then of the miscarriages of Noah Abraham Lot David Soloman Hezekiah and divers others and not to runne upon the same shelves And though these Apologists abhorred the miscariages of those that went before them in the way of Seperation yet by your report they still follow the way and so they ought for we are commanded to walke in the way of good men and to keepe the paths of the righteous But some may say can those be called righteous men that so miscarry We affirme still that the way is a righteous way and if any man that desireth from his heart to walke uprightly in it faile through infirmity hee hath an advocate with the father Jesus Christ the rihgteous and needeth not to goe to a Pope or a Synod for a pardon of his sinne Some peradventure will say you will have the Saints to bee subject to no Law If the Saints breake a just Law they must submit to the sensure of that Law if they breake their Covenant and violate it in sinning openly against any of the rules of Jesus Christ which hee hath given to his Church they are subject to bee sensured by the Church for the law was made for the disobedient But those that walke holily against such there is no law Magistrates were given for the punishment of evill doers and not onely so but for the praise of those that doe well and these are the two parts of the Magistrats duty which if they neglect they must answer it to God who sitteth in the Assembly of the Gods and weigheth all their proceedings And now what have you got by the Apologists declaration that they have observed the failings of the people of God You have meerely bewrayed your owne ignorance for if you had knowledge you might have made a better use of their speech You say their fourth thing that is good is their discription of the people of the Church of England I conceive they speake of some of whom they had hope because they conceived them to be plyable to receive what is brought them for truth and also capable to discerne error in some measure so it appeareth that if they preach errour the people are capable to discerne it But to leave this as a thing that doth not much concerne us that are Separates I will borow leave to paraphrase a little upon your applycation which you make of the miscariages of the Separation You say you would have had the Apologists to have made use of these mens fearfull sinnes to have deterd them from their way and you nominate Brown Boulton Barrow Smith and Jonson But here you commit two evills First you insinuate a slander against the dead Secondly you would have men forsake the the way of God for other mens failings For the first you speake of their fearfull sinnes but you mention nothing The greatest sin that ever I heard any of them accused withall was their going backe to communicate with the Churches of England and Rome which was a great sin indeed for Idolatry is as the sin of witchcraft and to speake the truth this is that great principle which hath caused so much division among the Separation You refer us to the stories of Brown Boulton Barrow Smith and Jonson I pray you Mr. Edwards what Stories are those and what are their fearfull sinnes therein mentioned It may be you mean some lying popish stories made by some trencher Poets for Prelates like the stories made by Mercurius Alicus at Oxford and some of those stories are by those who are best informed taâ—â—n to be like this booke of yours And like a booke written by Mr. Peter Studley my old Parish Priest which he wrote divers yeares agoe against the Professors in the Church of England concerning Enoch Abevan who because he was mad and in his madnes killed his Mother and his Brother this Mr. Studley called by the
good reason or else you shall have the conquest But you have in this your Antipologia named some learned Authors who have written against Separation amongst which Mr. Rutherford is one And I have seen Mr. Rutherfords booke and also weighed it But I could not discerne that he hath set down any thing against Separation that hath any force neither hath hee proved any thing sufficiently but hath propounded many queeries which have been both framed and answered long agoe and he hath in his discourse expressed and repeated many answers which have been made to those queeires by the Separation and running them over he telleth us what this man saith and what that man saith and what another man saith but he in declaring his owne conceptions following his blind zeale and popish Authors runneth himselfe headlong to justifie the Church and Ministry of Rome against the Separates arguments there specified bringing no sufficient proofe either of his owne or other mens against them Therefore I would have understanding men to consider whether this of his be learned or pious writing yea or no The generall scope of his booke tendeth to prove that the power of the Church resteth in the hands of her Officers But he should consider that Christ hath given the power to his Church which is his body and spouse of which and of whom he himselfe is the head and Husband neither can any Officer in the Church move Ecclesiastically without the power of the Church no more then a mans Arme or Leg or prime member can move except it derive power from the body of which it is a naturall member Yea the power of the Keyes is as absolutely the Churches which is Christs wife as the power of the Keyes of the Family are the Mistrises to whom the Husband giveth full power and I thinke no reasonâ—â—le man will affirme if her Husband give her sole power in his absence that she is subordinate to any of her servants Now the Scripture is cleere that Christ who is ascended up on high hath delivered the power to his Church therefore it is against the light and law of nature to conceive the Church to be thus subordinate to the servants but rather we may speake with reverence to Christ that her servants are subordinate unto her and it is a dishonour unto Christ for them to usurp ecclesiasticall authority over her But in case they should so doe she hath received commission from Christ her Husband to deale with them according to the offence committed by them and if need require to cast them out and then not to suffer them to enter in againe but by the dore of Repentance But as Mr. Rutherford by pleading for the Ecclesiasticall power to be in the Officers hath given great advantage to the Pope so hath he to the Anabaptists by pleading the universallity of his Church bringing in the seed of wicked men to be baptized because their fore father was a beleeving Parent but upon this ground all the Infants in the world are baptizable because a beleever was the father of them all But the Scripture teacheth us otherwise for the House of Jacob was forsaken by the Lord because they enlarged themselves from the East and were Southsayers like the Philistime and pleased themselves with the children of strangers YOu have joyned to your Antipologia certaine reasons against Tolleration which are the same in substance with those which you brought in your former And seeing they have beene largely answered there in the answer to your ten reasons and in my reply to your answer to their six reasons It is folly for you to study to relieve those reasons to serve your turne For untill you are able to stand out and prove by the word of God that the Church of England which you call your Church is the Church of Jesus Christ as it now stands in confusion And the ministry thereof either in the Synod or out of the Synod is the ministry which Christ gave to his Church when he ascended up on high Till this is proved which can never be all the arguments which you have brought or can bring against the Separates under the names of Sectaries are still against your selfe For whether there be Sectaries or Scismaticks whether Athists or Papists whether wanton witted Christians as you tearme them disobedient to Magistrates unfaithfull to King and State Obstinate Rebels nay what ever wickednesse can be named the persons practising the same are found to be Members of the Church of England Therefore I would advise you hereafter to let Baal plead for himselfe And goe not about to make the Magistrates beleive that it is their duty to suppresse the Church of Christ to heale the Rents of your confused Church state for though all the Prophets in the land would heale Babel yet she shall never be healed for in a generall Apostasie there can be no true Reformation but by a totall visible Separation of the pretious from the vile And therefore you come short when you would intimate there is nothing between you and us in point of the ministery but that our Ministers must sease from their outward temporall labours imployments or trades for our Ministers have no false calling upon them as yours have which is a great gulfe betwixt your Ministers and ours and betwixt you and us And concerning our Churches you say the controversie were at an end if our ministers would grant to our Churches that Assemblies and Synods might judge and passe sentence upon our members as often as they see just ground But truely Mr. Edwards this were to adulterate from the true patterne left unto us and as this argueth in you great slothfullnesse and pride so if your councell were followed it would make others like you but as our Ministers doe not desire to live Idly as you would have them doe neither doe our Churches desire the thing which you would have our Ministers grant them you may know that you doe not goe according to the rules of Scripture when you perswade the Ministers of the Gospel to sease labouring with their hands For when Paul called the Elders of Ephesus to give them their charge He set before them his owne example I pray you read the 20. Chapter of the Acts of the Apostles And see whether Paul required any to leave working with their hands no sure he commanded the direct contrary where he expressed that he Coveted no mans Silver or Gold or Apparrell But saith that they knew that his owne hands ministered to his necessities and them that were with him And further saith he hath shewed them in all things how that so labouring they ought to support the weake Remembring the words of our Lord Jesus how he said It is a more blessed thing to give then to receive And concerning our Churches submitting to Synods to judge their cases That were to make themselves foole * For if ther be a wise man amongst