warne thee of gentle Reader to th entent that if hereafter the foresaid Copies come forth in printe as this very yere Neubrigensis did and that the printed Copies haue more or lesse then we reporte out of the writen Copies thou may not suspect any falshood or forgery in vs but vnderstanding the case as we haue saied maiest take our dealing to be as it is true and sincere I herefore hauing conferred the printed Neubrigensis with the writen Copie and finding some difference as ofte as that which I alleage out of Neubrigensis is in the printed Copie so ofte I haue noted in the Margent the booke and Chapter of that Copie And when that I alleage is in the writen not printed Copie I note in the Margent Neubrig M.S. for Manuscriptus Againe in quoting the leaues of the Tomes of Councells I haue alwaies in maner folowed the former Copies printed at Collen in three Tomes Anno. 1551. Only towarde the ende of this booke I haue folowed the last edition of this present yere quoting the leaues according to that Edition and then for perspicuites sake I hau◠added in the Margent Edit Postr Vale. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 AN ANSVVERE TO THE PREFACE THE PREFACE OF M. HORNE It is novve an vvhole yeare past since I heard of a book secretly scattered abroad by M. Fekenham emong his friends And in Aprill last I came by a Copie therof Vvhen I had read the booke and perceiued both the matter and the maner of the mans doings therin I savv his proofes so slender and his maner of dealing so shameles that I stood in doubt vvhat to do vvhether to discouer the man by vvriting or to shake him of vvith silence If I had not seene a further meaning in his setting forth and publishing the book .1 thē he durst plainely vtter or then his cunning could by any meanes ansvveare vnto or then that I vvith a good conscience mought haue neglected I vvoulde haue past it ouer vvith silence as a peece of vvoorke not vvorthy of ansvvere But seing the .2 chiefe end and principal purpose intēded as may be iustly gathered in publishing the booke vvas to ingrafte in the mindes of the subiectes a misliking of the Queenes Maiestie as though shee vsurped a povver and authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters vvhereto shee hath no right to slaunder the vvhole Realme as though it vvere stranged and directly against the Catholike Churche renouncing and refusing to haue Communion therevvith And vnder my name to deface the mynisters of Christes Churche I could not choose oneles I vvould vvilfully neglect my duety to her Maiestie shevv my selfe ouermuche vnkinde vnto my natiue Countrie and altogeather become careles of the Churche Mynisterie but take penne in hand and shape him a ful and plaine ansvvere vvithout any curiositie T. Stapleton IT is to be knowen gentle Reader as I assuredly vnderstand that the Reuerent Father my L. Abbat of Westmynster M. Fekenham being prisoner in the Tower and supposing that the othe of the supremacie then passed in the Parliament holden at Westmynster in the fifte yere of the Queenes Maiesties raigne should foorth with as it was probable be tendred him and others gathered as it were in a shedule certain reasons and causes why he thought he could not with safe conscience receiue the said othe Minding to offer the said shedule to the Commissioners if any came The saied shedule M. Fekenham deliuered to M. Horne at Walthā a manour place of the Bishop of Winchester in Hamshier he being at that time there the said M. Horns prisoner by the committie of the Queene her highnes honourable Councel and that vpon this occasion In M. Fekenhams abode at Waltham there was daylie conference in matters of Religion namely of the principall pointes of this Treatise betwene him and M. Horne as him selfe confesseth In the which space he required M. Fekenham sundry and diuers times that he woulde by writing open vnto him the staies of his conscience touchinge the othe of the Queenes highnes Supremacie being the whole matter and cause of his trouble with no smal promises that he should susteine no kinde of harme or iniurie therby And in fine if there came no furder fruit or benefitte therof vnto him the whole matter should be safly folded vppe and left in the same estate where they beganne Wherevpon M. Fekenham thinking verely all things by him promised to be as truely meant as spoken made deliueraunce to M. Horne of a small Treatise deuised by him before his comming foorth of the Tower entituled The Answere made by M. Iohn Fekenham Priest and Prisoner in the Tower to the Queenes highnes Commissioners touching the othe of the Supremacie With this declaration also made vnto the said Master Horne that vpon the passing of the said statute he thought to haue deliuered the said Treatise to the Commissioners if any came as the staie of his conscience concerning the refusall of the foresaid othe And forasmuche as they came not he being as before is said vrged and pressed by the said M. Horne to open vnto him by writing the causes forcing him to breathe and staie vpon the taking of the foresaid othe made deliuerance of the very same Treatise deuised in the Tower with the foresaid Title and declaration Which Treatise being afterwarde encreased as wel by M. Hornes Answers as by M. Fekenhams Replies thervnto made after his return back againe to the Tower he sent one copie to the right honorable the L. Erle of Lecester and one other to Syr William Cicil Knight and Secretarie vnto the Queenes highnes with the same title that the printed book conteineth both of them being deliuered by M. Lieutenant of the Tower This shedule or litle Treatise M. Horne calleth a booke ▪ yea and that made with the helpe of the rest that he might seme after two yeares and more to haue done a worthy and a notable acte in answering six poore leaues for thereabout in M. Hornes booke amounteth the quantitie of M. Fekenhams Treatise and to haue made a great conqueste vpon M. Fekenham and his fellowes woorthie for this great martiall prowes to be if al other thinges faile a Prelate of the Garter This his Treatise was he forced to deliuer to the right Honorables as before for his necessary purgation concerninge suche false accusations and slaunders as Maister Horne had made and raised vppon him as shall heereafter in more conueniente place be specified VVherefore this beeing done as ye haue heard so plainly so simply and vpon such cause sheweth that M. Fekenham had no such meaning as M. Horne here falsly surmiseth As one who hadde his principall and chiefe regard how to satisfie his owne and not other mennes consciences howe to saue him selfe from slaunders and vntrue accusations and not to woorke with other men by perswasion VVherefore this is an vntrue and a false surmise of M. Horne as are the other two here also in saying that M.
other that among other heresies recite some of those that you openly and your fellowes maintaine Yf ye will reiect the poore Catholiques S. Augustine and Epiphanius also yet I trust you will not be against your owne famouse Apologie whiche saith that Epiphanius nombreth fourscore Heresies of the which it is one for a man after the order of Priesthode to marie and S. Augustine a greater nomber and so concludeth you and the residue to be heretikes If ye wil denie ye mainteine any of those heresies your preachings your teachings and writings beare full and open testimony against you What then haue you to iustifie your cause You wil happely forsake and abandon S. Augustines authoritie withal the olde Canons and Councels and flye vnder the defence of your brickle bulwarke of Actes of Parliament O poore and sely helpe o miserable shift that our faith should hang vppon an acte of Parliamente contrary as wel to all actes of Parliament euer holden in Englande before as to the Canons and Fathers of the Catholike Churche A strange and a wonderfull matter to heare in a Christian common welth that matters of faith are Parliament cases That ciuill and prophane matters be conuerted into holie and Ecclesiasticall matters Yea and that woorse is that Laie men that are of the folde onely not shepheards at all and therefore bounde to learne of their Catholique Bisshoppes and Pastours may alter the whole Catholique Religion maugre the heades of all the Bishoppes and the whole Conuocation This is to trouble all things this is as it were to confounde togeather heauen and earth But yet let vs see the prouidence of God These men that relinquishing the Church would hang only vpoÌ„ a Parliament are quite forsaken yea euen there where they loked for their best helpe For I praye you what warrant is there by acte of Parliament to denie the Real presence of Christes bodie in the holie Eucharistia Is it not for anye Parliament as well heresie nowe as it was in Quene Maries King Henries or anye other Kinges dayes What can be shewed to the contrarie Doth not Luther your first Apostle and his schollers defie you therefore as detestable Heretiques Nowe concerning Transubstantiation and adoration is it not well knowen thinke you that in King Edwardes dayes there was a preaty legerdemaine played and a leafe putt in at the printing which was neuer proposed in the Parliamente What Parliamente haue your Preachers to denye free will and the necessitie of baptizing children Againe I pray you is there any Acte to confirme your vnlawful mariage Doth not in this point the Canonicall Lawe stande in force as well nowe as in King Henries daies And so doth it not followe that yee are no true Bishoppe Beside is it not notoriouse that yee and your Colleages were not ordeined no not according to the prescripte I wil not say of the Churche but euen of the verye statutes Howe then can yee challenge to your selfe the name of the Lord Bisshoppe of Winchester Whereof bothe the Municipall and Ecclesiasticall Lawe dothe woorthelye spoyle you Wherefore as I sayed let vs dashe out these wordes and then no reasonable man shall haue any great cause to quarell against the Title of M. Fekenhams Treatise The .2 Diuision M. Horne The booke by you deliuered vnto mee touching the Othe was writen in the Tovver of London as you your selfe confessed and the true title therof doth plainly testifie in the time of the ParliameÌ„t holden Anno quinto of the Q. Maiestie Ianua 12. at which time you litle thought to haue soiourned with me the winter follovving and much lesse meant to deliuer me the scruples and staies of your coÌ„science in writing to be resolued at my hands And although you would haue it seeme by that you haue published abroade that the cause why you wrot was to be resolued my hande yet the trueth is as you your selfe reported that you and your Tovver fellovves hearing that the Statute moued for the assuraunce of the Queenes royall povver would passe and be establissed did conceiue that immediately after the same Session Commissioners shoulde be sente vnto you to exact the Othe VVhereuppon you to be in some readines to withstande and refuse the duetie of a good subiecte .8 not without helpe of the reste as may be gathered deuised the matter conteyned in the booke committed the same to writing and purposed to haue deliuered it for your ansvvere touching the Othe of the Supremacy to the CoÌ„missioners if they had come This may appere by the Title of that booke that you first deliuered to me which is worde for worde as follovveth The answere made by M. Iohn Fekenham Priest and prisoner in the Tower to the Quenes highnes Commissioners touching the Oth of the Supremacie In this Title there is no mencion of scruples and stayes deliuered to the Bisshoppe of VVinchester but of aunsvveare to the Queenes Commissioners I am not once named in the â—itle ne yet in the looke deliuâ—â—â—â— to mee neither is there one worde as spoken to me although in the 〈…〉 abroad you turne all as spoken to me â—n your booke published aâ—e 〈…〉 kinds of speaches To the L. Bishop of VVinchestâ— VVhen youâ— L. shal be able c. I shall ioyne this issue vvith your L. c. But it is farre othervvise in your booke deliuered to me namely To the Queenes highnes coÌ„missioners VVhen ye the Queenes highnes coÌ„missioners shal be hable c. I shal ioine this issue vvith you that vvhen any one of you the Queenes hignes coÌ„missioners c. From October at what time you were sent to me vnto the end of Ianuarie there was daily conference betvvixt vs in matters of Religion but chiefly touching the foure pointes which you terme scruples and stayes of conscience and that by worde of mouth and not by any writing In all which points ye vvere .9 so ansvvered that ye had nothing to obiect but seemed resolued and in a maner fully satisfied VVhervpon I made aftervvard relation of .10 good meaning tovvards you to certain honorable persons of the good hope I had coÌ„ceiued of your conformity At whiche time a certaine friend of yours standing by and hearing what I had declared then to the honorable in your coÌ„medacion did shortly after .11 reporte the same vnto you which as it seemed you did so much mislike doubting that your confederates should vnderstand of your reuolt .12 which they euer feared hauing experience of your shrinking froÌ„ them at .13 VVestminster in the coÌ„ference there the first yere of the Q. Maiestie that after that time I founde you alvvaies much more repugnaÌ„t and coÌ„trary to that wherin ye before times seemed in maner throughly resolued And also to goe from that you before agreed vnto By reason vvhereof vvhen in debating betvvixt vs you vsinge manye shiftes amongst other did continuallie quarell in Sophistication of vvordes I did vvill you to
Secretarie to the Quenes highnes at Westminster in the canon rewe The third daie was at the white Friers in the house of Syr Iohn Cheke Knight In al the which conferences and disputations with manie learned men he was the truth to confesse muche made of and most gently vsed And this disputation so begunne at London did finishe in Worcester shiere where he was borne and had also a Benefice by the meane whereof and by the special appointmēt of Syr Phillipp Hobbie he came before M. Hooper then taken as Bishoppe of Worcester where he charginge M. Fekenham in the Kinges highnes name to answere him he kept foure seueral and solempne disputations with him beginning in his visitatiō at Parshor and so finished the same in the Cathedral Church at Worcester Where amongs many other he founde M. Iewell who was one of his apponents The said M. Hoper was so answered by M. Fekenham that there was good cause why he should be satisfied and M. Fekēham dismissed from his trouble As he had cause also to be satisfied by the answeres of M. Henrie Iolife Deane of Bristow and M. Robert Iohnson as may appeare by their answeres now extant in print But the finall end of all the foresaid disputations with M. Fekenhā was that by the foresaid Syr Phillipp Hobbey he was sent backe againe to the Tower and there remained prisoner vntill the firste yeare of Queene Marie And here nowe may you perceiue and see M. Horne how ye are ouertaken and with how many good witnesses in your vntruthe concerning M. Fekenhams dimissing out of the Tower A rablement of your vntruthes here I wil not nor time will serue to discusse as that Monasteries were surrendered with the Monks goodwil whiche for the moste parte might sing volens nolo that their vowes were foolishe and that they had many horrible errors Marie one thing you say that M. Fekenham I thinke will not denie that he set foorth this Supremacy in his open sermons in King Henries daies which was not vpon knowledge as you without all good knowledge doe gather for knoweledge can not matche with vntruth but vpon very ignorance and lacke of true knowledge and due consideratiō of the matter being not so wel knowē to the best learned of the Realme then as it is now to euery mā being but of mean learning For this good lo at the least heresy worketh in the church that it maketh the truth to be more certainly knowen ād more firmly and stedfastly afterward kept So as S. Austine saith the matter of the B. Trinitie was neuer wel discussed vntil Arriās barked against it The Sacramēt of penāce was neuer throughly hādled vntil the Nouatiās began to withstand it Neither the cause of Baptism was wel discussed vntill the rebaptising Donatists arose and troubled the Church And euē so this matter of the Popes Supremacy ād of the Princes was at the first euē to very learned mē a strāge matter but is now to meanly learned a well knowen and beaten matter Syr Thomas More whose incōparable vertue ād learning al the Christian world hath in high estimatiō and whose witte Erasmus iudged to haue ben such as England nor had neither shal haue the like ād who for this quarrel which we now haue in hād suffred death for the preseruatiō of the vnitie of Christes Church which was neuer nor shal be preserued but vnder this one head as good a man ād as great a clerk and as blessed a Martyr as he was albeit he euer wel thought of this Primacy and that it was at the least wise instituted by the corps of Christēdome for great vrgēt causes for auoiding of schismes yet that this primacy was immediatly institute of God which thing al Catholiks now specially such as haue trauailed in these late cōtrouerses do beleue he did not mani yeres beleue vntil as he writeth himself he read in the mater those things that the Kīgs highnes had writē in his most famous booke against the heresies of Martin Luther amōg other things he writeth thus Surely after that I had read his graces boke therin and so many other things as I haue sene in that point by the continuance of this seuē yeres sins ād more I haue foūd in effect the substāce of al the holy Doctors froe S. Ignatius Disciple of S. Iohn vnto our own daies both Latins ād Grekes so cōsonāt and agreīg in that point and the thing by such general Gouncels so confirmed also that in good faith I neuer neither read nor heard anye thinge of suche effecte on the other side that euer coulde lead mee to thinke that my conscience were well discharged but rather in right great peril if I should follow the other side and denie the primacie to be prouided by God It is the lesse meruail therfore if at the first for lacke of mature and depe consideration many good wel learned men otherwise being not resolued whether this Primacie were immediatly instituted by God and so thīking the lesse dāger to relēt to the Kings title especially so terrible a law enacted against the deniers of the same wer ād amōg them also Maister Fekenham caried away with the violence of this cōmon storm and tempest And at the first many of the cōuocation grāted to agnise the Kings supremacy but quatenus de iure diuino that is as far as thei might by Gods law Which is now knowen clearly to stand against it And although the Popes Primacie were not groūded directly vpon Gods worde but ordeined of the Churche yet coulde it not be abrogated by the priuate consente of any one or fewe Realmes no more then the Citie of Londō can iustlye abrogate an act of Parliament But whereas ye insult vpon M. Fekenham for that he was ones entangled and wrapped in this common error and would thereof enforce vpon him a knowledge of the said error and woulde haue him perseuere in the same and ones againe to fall quite ouer the eares into the dirtie dong of filthie schisme and heresie ye worke with him both vnskilfully and vngodlye And if good counsaile might finde any place in your harde stony hart I would pray to God to mollifie it and that ye would with M. Fekenham hartilie repēt and for this your great offence schisme and heresie as I doubt not he doth and hath done followe S. Peter who after he had denyed Christ Exiuit fleuit amarè Went out and wepte ful bitterlie For surely whereas ye imagine that ye haue in your cōference proued the matter to M. Fekenhā so that he had nothing to saye to the contrarye it is nothing but a lowde lewde lye vppon him and that easelye appeareth seeinge that after all this your long trauaile wherein yee haue to the moste vttered all your skill ye are so farre from full answering his scruples and staies that they seeme plainlye to be vnaunswerable and you your selfe quite ouerborne and ouerthrowen
infidelitie Your vnskilfulnes whiche is the least matter standeth in that ye saye the King is commaunded to haue by him the booke of the Lawe Your texte saith not so Syr but Describet sibi Deuteronomium legis huius in volumine He shal write out this second Lawe in a booke As Edmund Beck a man of your secte truely hath translated Wel let the King read in Gods name not onelye that booke but all the whole Bible beside It is a worthy and a commendable study for him But let him beware that this sweete honie be not turned into poyson to him and least vnder this pleasant baite of Gods worde he be sodainly choked with the topicall and pestiferouse translation wherewith ye haue rather peruerted then translated the Bible printed at Geneua and in other places and with your false daungerouse damnable gloses where with you haue corrupted and watered the same and made it as it were of pleasante wine most sowre vineger The onely remedy and help to eschewe and auoyde this daunger is to take this booke and other holy writings faithfully translated at the priests hands as they from tyme to tyme haue receiued them and after such order as your own texte appointeth saying When he is sette vpon the seate of his kingdome he shal write him out this seconde Law in a booke taking a copy of the Priests of the Leuiticall tribe Which later woordes ye haue because they make directly against you quite leafte out And then immediatly foloweth howe he shal busely read the sayde booke and so forth If this order had of Late yeares ben kept and that Princes and other had taken the Bible as it is and euer hath ben of the priestes of the Catholike Church orderly and lawfully succeding one the other as the Leuits did reade tawght and expounded as wel in Greke and Hebrewe as in Latin these errours and heresies should neuer haue taken so deape a roote as they haue now cawght Neither is this place onely meant that the King should take the bare lettre but rather the exposition withal of the said Priests For what were the King the better or any man else for the bare lettre if he had not also as ordinary a waye for his direction in the vnderstanding as he had prouided him for to receiue a true and an incorrupted copy Where of we may see the practise in al ages in the Catholik Churche whereof this place is the very shadowe and figure For as the Protestantes them selues are forced by plaine wordes to confesse that they know not the true worde or booke of God but by the Churche which from tyme to tyme delyuered these bokes euen so by al reason and learning they should also cōfesse that the Church can no more be deceiued in deliuering the sense of the saide word then in deliuering the worde it self Which seing they will not confesse for then were we forthwith at a point and ende with al their errours and heresies they must nedes continew in the same And so while euery man in the expositiō of scriptures foloweth his own head be it neuer so worldly wise or circumspect yet his own propre and peculiar separated from the common aduise and iudgement of the whole Church errours and heresies haue and doe daylie grow and wil neuer cease more and more to encrease and multiply onlesse we take forth the lessō I haue shewed you into this huge and infinite nōber where with the world is now most miserably ouerwhelmed Whereof the best remedy were the exact obseruation of this place that ye haue so wilily and sleightly slipte ouer But most of al an other sentence in the very said chapter and euen the next to this ye alleage that the King as sone as he is chosen shal bestow his study vpon the reading of the Deuteronomy Where Moyses saieth that in doubtful causes the people shoulde haue their recourse to the said priestes and to the iudge for the tyme beinge meaning the highe prieste of whome they shoulde learne the truthe and are commaunded to doe accordinglye euen vnder payne of death Which place wel weighed and cōsidered serueth to declare that I haue said that the King and others should receiue not only the letter which as S. Paule saieth doth kil but the true and sincere meaning withal wherein standeth the life of the letter as the life of mā with in his body yea the eternal lyfe wherof by folowing lewde lying expositions of holy write we are spoiled at the priests handes All which thinges serue directly for the primacy of them and not of Princes Nowe therefore goe on M. Horne and beinge at your first encountringe ouerblowen and discomfyted euen with your owne blaste thinke well whether it is lykely that ye shall hereafter bringe againste your aduersary any thīg wherby he should as ye haue falsly slaūdered him in a maner yelde and be resolued on your syde For as for the next place it enforceth no supremacy We frely graunte you that princes may sharply punishe teachers of false and superstitiouse religion and idolatry being thereof by the Priestes instructed which is the matter of your texte But then take head to your selfe Maister Horne For I saye to you that ye and your fellowes teache false and superstitiouse religion many and detestable heresies and so withal plaine Idolatry For heresie is called a very Idol aswel by scripture as in the exposition of the holy and learned fathers And thē are ye no simple Idolatour but one that mainteyneth a nomber of heresies with no lesse offence towardes God than was the offence of the Iewes that your place speaketh of when they sette vppe afterwarde their idolls And so haue ye geuen sentence against your selfe and haue tolde the Magistrate his office Neither thinck you that ye may illude your punishment by the cowlour of the late statutes of the realme which though in manye thinges serue for your wordelye indemnitye yet that ye may kepe your Madge and bisshoprike withall and maye not be punished for the obstinate defence of suche fylthye mariage and especiallye for the denyinge of the reall presence in the blessed Sacramente of the aulter and for many other things that your sorte daily write and preach I trowe it wil be hard for you to bring forth any acte of parliamente or any other conuenient and sufficient plea. And as I graunt this authority to punishe to the ciuil prince so that this inferreth a superiority in al causes aswel ecclesiastical as temporal I flatly deny and most of al that ye haue proued your assertion that princes ought to take vpon them such pretensed regiment whereof the very place by you induced sheweth as I haue said the plain contrary Now that you bring out of Glosa ordinaria that the Prince is commaūded by his Princely authority to cause his subiects to become Israëlites it may perhaps be in some ordinary Glose of Geneua his Notes
learned Countrie man whose Homilies were read in our Countrie in the Church Seruice aboue .800 yeares past as also in Fraunce and other where reiected are reade in M. Hornes and other his brethrens Diocesse and are with M. Horne very good stuffe as good perdie as M. Hornes owne booke and as clerkly and faithfully handeled as ye shall see plainly by the very selfe matter we haue in hande Andronicus the elder sonne to this Michaell whome M. Horne calleth ignorantly Emanuel for this Emanuel was not the sonne of this Andronicus but of CaloioaÌ„nes sonne to Andronicus the yoÌ„ger to whoÌ„ our Andronicus was graÌ„father after his fathers death suÌ„moned a couÌ„cel of the GreciaÌ„s wherin he and they annulled aÌ„d reuoked that his Father had don at the CouÌ„cel at LioÌ„s namely coÌ„cerning the proceding of the holy Ghoste And for the which Nicephorus M. Hornes Author beiÌ„g also caried away with the coÌ„mon errour as with an huge raging teÌ„pest doth so highly auaÌ„ce this Andronicus And so withal ye see vpoÌ„ how good a maÌ„ and vpoÌ„ how good a cause M. Horne buildeth his new supremacy to pluck doune the Popes old supremacy For the infringing wherof the wicked working of wretched heretiks is with him here and els where as we shal in place coÌ„uenient shew a goodlye and godlye presidente as it is also with M. Iewel for to mainteine the very same quarrel as I haue at large in my Returne against his fourth Article declared But nowe M. Horne what if these hereticall doinges do nothing relieue your cause nor necessarilye induce the chief Superiority in al causes and perchaÌ„ce in no cause Ecclesiastical coÌ„cerning the final discussing aÌ„d determination of the same Verely without any perchaÌ„ce it is most plainly and certainly true it doth not For euen in this schismatical CouÌ„cel and heretical Synagog the Bishops plaid the chief part and they gaue the final though a wrong and a wicked iudgemeÌ„t Who also shewed their superiority though vngodly vpon this mans Father in that they would not suffer him to be interred PriÌ„celike theÌ„ selues much more worthy to haue ben cast after their decease to the dogs and raueÌ„s vpoÌ„ a dirty donghil What honor haue ye gotte for al your crafty cooping or cuÌ„ning aÌ„d smoth ioyning for al your coÌ„bining aÌ„d as I may say incorporating a nuÌ„ber of Nicephorus sentences together of the whiche yet some are one some are two leaues a sunder and the first placed after the second and the second before the firste and yet not whole sentences neither but pieces and patches of sentences here and there culled oute and by you verye smoothlye ioyned in one continuall narration in such sort that a man would thinke that the whole lay orderly in Nicephorus and were not so artificially by you or your delegates patched vppe what honor haue you I say woÌ„ne by this or by the whole thing it self Litle or nothing furthering your cause aÌ„d yet otherwise plaine schismatical and heretical For the which your hansome holy dealing the author of the foresaid Homilie and you yea and M. Iewel too are worthy exceding thanks But M. Horne wil not so leese his loÌ„g allegatioÌ„ out of Nicephorus He hath placed a Note in his Margin sufficieÌ„t I trow to coÌ„clude his principall purpose And that is this The Princes Supremacy in repairing religion decayed This is in deed a ioly marginal note But where findeth M. Horn the same in his text Forsoth of this that Nicephorê° calleth th' Emperor the mighty supreme aÌ„d very holy Anchor aÌ„d stay in so horrible wauering c. Of the word Supreme ancher he coÌ„cludeth a Supremacy But ô more theÌ„ childish folly could that crafty Cooper of this allegatioÌ„ informe you no better M. Horn Was he no better sene in GraÌ„mer or in the professioÌ„ of a scholemaister then thus fowly aÌ„d fondly to misse the true interpretatioÌ„ of the latine word For what other is suprema anchora in good english theÌ„ the last ancher the last refuge the extreme holde and staye to reste vppon As suprema verba doe signifye the last woordes of a man in his last will as Summa dies the last daye Supremum indicium the last iudgemeÌ„t with a nuÌ„ber of the like phrases so Suprema Anchora is the last Anchour signifiyng the last holde and staie as in the perill of tempest the last refuge is to cast Ancher In such a sense Nicephorus called his Emperour the last the mightie and the holy Anchour or staie in so horrible wauering and errour signifiyng that now by him they were staied froÌ„ the storme of schisme as from a storm in the sea by casting the Ancher the shippe is stayed But by the Metaphore of an Anchour to conclude a Supremacie is as wise as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to coÌ„clude a sadle For as well doth a saddle fitte a Cowe as the qualitie of an Anchor resemble a Supremacie But by suche beggarly shiftes a barren cause must be vpholded First al is said by the way of Amplification to extolle the Emperour as in the same sentence he calleth him the sixth Element reaching aboue Aristotles fift body ouer the foure elemeÌ„ts with such like Then all is but a Metaphore which were it true proueth not nor concludeth but expresseth and lighteneth a truth Thirdly the Metaphore is ill translated and last of all worse applied Now whereas in the beginning of your matter the substance of your proufes hereafter standing in stories ye haue demeaned your selfe so clerkly and skilfully here the Reader may hereof haue a tast and by the way of preuention and anticipation haue also a certaine preiudicial vnderstaÌ„ding what he shal looke for at your handes in the residue Wherefore God be thanked that at the beginning hath so deciphired you whereby we may so much the more yea the bolder without any feare of all your antiquitie hereafter to be shewed cherefully procede on M. Horne The .25 Diuision pag. 18. a. These and such like Christian Emperours are not thus much commended of the Ecclesiasticall vvriters for their notable doings in the maintenaunce and furtheraunce of Religion as for doings not necessarilie appertaining to their office or calling but for that they vvere exaumples spectacles and glasses for others vvherein to beholde vvhat they are bound vnto by the vvorde of God and vvhat their subiectes may looke for at their handes as matter of charge and duety both to God and his people VVhich S. Paule doth plainly expresse vvhere he exhorteth the Christians to make earnest and continual praier for Kings and for such as are in authoritie to this ende and purpose that by their rule ministerie and seruice not only peace and tranquilitie but also godlines and religion should be .67 furthered and continued among men attributing the furtherance and continuance of religion and godlines to the Magistrates as an especial fruite and effect of their duety and seruice to God and his people Chrysostome expounding this
promising by othe to Aldrede Archbisshop of Yorke that crouned hiÌ„ at S. Peters alter in Westminster before the clergy and the people that he would defende the holye Churches and their gouernours But tel your readers good M. Horn I beseche you why that King WilliaÌ„ contrary to the auncieÌ„t order vsed euer before and since was not crowned of Stigandus theÌ„ liuing and being Archbishop of Canterbury but of the bishop of York Yf ye can not or wil not for very shame to betraie your cause tel you reader then wil I do so much for you Forsoth the cause was that the Pope layde to his charge that he had not receiued his palle canonically The said Stigandus was deposed shortly after in a Councell holden at Winchester in the presence of .ij. Cardinals sent froÌ„ Pope Alexander the .2 and that as Fabian writeth for thre causes The first for that he had holden wroÌ„gfully the bisshoprik whyle Robert the Archbishop was liuing The second for that he had receyued the palle of Benett bishop of Rome the fifth of that name The third for that he occupied the said Palle without liceÌ„ce and leful authority of the court of Rome Your author Polychronicon writeth in the like effect Neubrigensis also newly priÌ„ted toucheth the depositioÌ„ of this StigaÌ„dus by the Popes Legat in EnglaÌ„d aÌ„d reporteth that the Popes Legat Canonically deposed him What liking haue you now M. Horne of KiÌ„g WilliaÌ„s supremacy Happy are you with your fellowes the protestaÌ„t bishops and your two Archbisshops that the said WilliaÌ„ is not now king For if he were ye se cause sufficieÌ„t why ye al shuld be depriued aswel as StigaÌ„dê° And yet ther is one other thiÌ„g worse thaÌ„ this and that is schisme and heresy Who woulde euer haue thought good reader that the Pope should euer haue found M. Horne him selfe so good a proctour for the Papacy againste him self and his fellowes For lo this brasen face which shortly for this his incredible impudency will be much more famouse then freer Bacons brasen head of the which the schollers of Oxforde were wonte to talke so much doth not blushe to tel thee good reader to his owne confusion of the Popes Legates and the Councell kepte at Winchester And al this is ye wotte wel to shewe that Kinge William was supreme head in al causes as wel temporall as spiritual Then doth he pleade on foorth full lustely for the Pope for Kinge William heareth a certayne Ecclesiasticall matter beinge in controuersie and dependinge in the Popes cowrte betwene the Archebisshop of Yorke and the Archebisshop of Caunterbury the which cause the Pope had remitted to be determined by the King and the bishops Well said M. Horne and like the Popes faithfull proctour For hereof followeth that the Pope was the supreame head and iudge of the cause And the Kinge the Popes Commissioner by whose commaundemeÌ„t the cause was sent ouer to be heard in EnglaÌ„d And yet was Hubertus the Popes Legat present at the end this notwithstaÌ„ding M. Horne would now belike make vs belieue that King William also thrusted out Abbats and supressed Monasteries when yt pleased him For he telleth vs that by the KiÌ„gs iudgement Abbat Thurstan was chaunged and his monks scattered abrode but he had forgotte to set in also that his authour and others say that it was for slaying of certayne of his monkes and wounding of certayne other The monks also had hurt many of his men And your author of the PollichronicoÌ„ telleth that these moÌ„ks were scattered abrode by the kiÌ„gs hest by diuers bisshopriks and abbays which latter words ye leue out As also you do in your Author FabiaÌ„ who saith not they were scattred about as you reporte as though they had bene scattred out of their coates as of late dayes they were but he saieth they were spred abrode into diuers houses through Englande so that they chaunged but their house not their Religion And so this was no spirituall matter that the kinge did neither gaue he herein any iudgement in any spirituall cause Nowe if all other argumentes and euidences fayled vs to shewe that kinge William toke not him self for supreame gouernour in all maner causes as you moste vntruely and fondly auouche we might well proue it againste yowe by the storie of Lanfranke whome kinge William as ye confesse made archebishop of Canterburie Though according to your olde manner ye dissemble aswell the depryuation of Stigandus in whose place the king set Lanfranke as that Lanfranke receyuid his palle from Rome and acknowledged not the kinge but the pope for supreame head of the Church Which thing doth manifestly appeare in his learned boke he wrote againste your greate graundsier Berengarius Who as ye doe nowe denied then the transubstantiation and the real presence of Christes bodie in the Sacramente and called the Churche of Rome which had condemned his heresie as ye vse to doe the Church of the malignante the councell of vanitye the see of Sathan To whome Lanfrancus answereth that there was neuer anie heretyke anie schismatyke anie false Christian that before hym had so wyckedly babled againste that see And sayth yet farder in an other place of the sayd boke Quotquot a primordio Christianae Ecclesiae Christiani nominis dignitate gloriati sunt etsi aliqui relicto veritatis tramite per deuia erroris incedere maluerunt sedem tamen sancti Petri Apostoli magnificè honorauerunt nullamque aduersus eam huiusmodi blasphemiam vel dicere vel scribere praesumpserunt Whosoeuer from the begynning of Christes Church were honored with the name of ChristeÌ„ meÌ„ though some forsaking the Truth haue gone astray yet they honoured much the See of Peter neyther presumed at any time either to speake or to write any such blasphemy He saieth also that the blessed Fathers doe vniformly affirme that maÌ„ to be an heretike that doth dissent from the RomaÌ„ and vniuersal Church in matter of faith But what nede I lay furth to thee good Reader LanfraÌ„ks learned books or to goe from the matter we haue in hand ministred to vs by M. Horne coÌ„cerning this matter sent to be determined before the King Such as haue or can get either PolychronicoÌ„ or FabiaÌ„ I would wish them to see the very place and thaÌ„ wil they meruail that M. Horne would for shame bring in this matter agaiÌ„st the Popes primacy for the confirmation wherof ye shal find in LaÌ„franks reasoning before the King for his right vpoÌ„ the church of York somthing worth the noting for the Popes primacy Beside this he writeth that Lanfrank was a man of singular vertue coÌ„stancy and grauity whose helpe and couÌ„sel for his affaires the King chiefly vsed And therfore your coÌ„clusion that ye inferre of such premisses as ye haue specified which as I haue shewed do not impugne but establish the popes primacy is a very fond folish and false coÌ„clusion It appeareth well both
by Fabian and by Polychronicon that he would sometime like a cōquerour for his owne lucre and safetie both displace the English prelats as he did the Knights and Nobles of the realme to place his owne Normans in their roome and also haue a peece many times of his owne mind cōtrary to the precise order of the Canōs and lawes ecclesiastical And this not only Fabian and Polychonicon but before them both Williā of Malmesbury doth also witnes Such faults therfore of Williā Cōquerour ād of others that your authour and other reporte in discōmendation serue you notwithstāding such beggarly shiftes you are forced to vse for good argumēts ād substātial bulwarks to build your newe supreamacy vpō And nowe might I or anie wise mā much meruail to cōsider how that ye haue ladē and freighted this one page of your boke with no lesse then .6 quotatiōs of the Polychronicō and yet not one of them seruing for but rather againste you yea eche one ouerthrowing your purpose And therfore because ye would be the lesse espied as throughout your whole discourse so here ye neither name boke nor chapter of your authour Beside that it is vntrue that ye write as out of Polychronicon that the popes Legates kept a Councell before which was kept at Winchester For he speaketh of none other but of that where Stigādus that we spake of was degraded and afterward kept streighly in prison by Williā Conquerour And the Bishops and Abbats ye speake of were not deposed by the King but as your self write by the kings meanes and procuremēt Which was as Fabiā reporteth all to the entent he might preferre Normans to the rule of the Church as he had preferred his Knightes to the rule of the temporaltie that he might stand in the more suertie of the lande M. Horne The .119 Diuision pag. 77. a. In like maner did his sonne William Rufus vvho made Anselm Bishop of Yorke and aftervvard trāslated him to Cantorbury But within a while strife and cōtention fel betwene him and Anselm for Anselm might not cal his Synods nor correct the bishops but as the kīg would the king also chalēged the inuestiture of bisshops This king also forbad the paying of any mony or tribut to Rome as saith Polychronicon The like inhibition made Henry the first and 417. gaue Ecclesiastical promotions as his auncestours had doone vvherefore Anselme fel out vvith the kinge and vvould not consecrate suche Prelates as he beynge a Lay man had made but the Archebishop of Yorke .418 did consecrate thē and therefore Anselme .419 fledde the Realme In an other councel at London the spiritual condescended that the kinges officers should punish Priestes for whoordome The cause of this decree as it seemeth vvas that a Cardinall named Ioannes Cremensis that came to redresse the matter after he had enueighed againste the vice vvas him selfe the same nyghte taken tardy In the which councell also sayth Polydore the kinge prouided many thinges to bee enacted which shoulde greatly helpe to leade a Godly and blessed life After this the kinge called an other Councell at Sarisbury Sommoning thither so well the chief of the Clergy as the people and swore them vnto him and vnto VVilliam his sonne Whereupon Polydorus taketh occasion to speake of the order of our Parliamente though it haue a French name yet in deede to be a councell of the Clergy and the Laitie vvhereof the Prince hath a full ratifiyng or enfringing voyce And not only saith he this king did make Bisshoppes and Abbottes vvhich he calleth holy rites Lavves of religion and Church ceremonies as other likevvyse cal it ecclesiastical busynes but the Princes of euery natiō begane euery wher to claim this right vnto thē selues of namīg and denouncing of Bisshops the which to this daie they hold fast with toothe and nayle Also Martinus here noteth Vntil this time and frō thence .420 euē til our daies the king of Hungary maketh and inuestureth according to his pleasure Bisshops and other Ecclesiastical persons within his Dominions Stapleton Ye shal nowe good reader see a more euidente testimonie of M. Hornes meruelouse newe logike and diuinity wherof I spake euen now For ys not this a worthy and a clerkly conclusion The wicked king Rufus woulde not suffer the blessed and learned archbishop of Caūterbury Anselme to cal hys Synodes and correcte the Bishoppes he challenged the inuestiture of Bishoppes he woulde paye no tribute to Rome Ergo the Quene of Englande is supreame head of the Church of Englande The losenes and fondnes of thys argumente euery childe may sone espie By this argument he may set the Popes crowne vppon the head of the wycked and heathen Prince especiallie the tyrāte Licinius with whome Eusebius cōparing the good and Christian Emperour Constantine cōpartner with hym in the empire ād not in hys wyckednes writeth thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. First then he watched and obserued the Priestes of God that were vnder hys gouernemente and wheras they had nothing offended hym he by curiouse and subtyle working deuised pretensed matter to trouble and vex◠them When he could fynd no iuste matter to accuse them withall he made a proclamatiō that the Bishoppes for no maner of matter should assemble together and that yt shoulde not be lawfull to any of them to repayre to theire neighbours Churches or to call any Synode or place to consulte and debate vppon suche thinges as apperteyned to the commoditye of the Churche Thys was hys dryfte by the wich he sowght they re destruction For either the Bishoppes were in daunger to be punished ▪ yf they trāsgressed his law or yf they kepte the lawe they broke the order and custome of the Churche For they could not aduise thē selues in any weighty matters but in a Synode And thys wicked mā hated of God gaue thys commaundement that he might worke quite contrarye to the doeinges of good Constantyne whome God loued For he such was his reuerēce to God suche was his studie and endeuour to haue peace and agreemente assembled Gods priests together Th' other cōtrariwyse wēt about to dissolue those things that were wel ordeined and to breke peace ād agreemēt Thus farre Eusebius of the heathen tyran Licinius Ye play therfore M. Horn like a very spider that gathereth nothīg but poison out of sweet herbes and so doe you out of good chronicles Ye are like to the flie that loueth to dwell in the horse dong I would to God your Reader M. Horne would either aduisedly weigh what an ill King this Williā Rufus was by the most agreable consent of all writers and what straūge and wōderful tokēs were sene in his time ād how he ended his life being slaine by the glaūsing of an Arrowe as he was a hūting or the excellēt learning cōstancy and vertue of the B. Anselmus and the great miracles that
is his anker hold and for this cause aswell the whole allegation is here producted as also one peace of the same set in the first page of his whole boke as a sure marke to direct the reader by and as yt were a Sampsons poste for M. Horne to buyld his boke vppō But take good head M. Horne yt be not a true Sampsons poste and that it bring not the whole howse vpon your own head as yt doth in dede Wherunto good reader seing M. Horne hath chosen this as a notable allegation to be eied on setting the same in two notable places I woulde wishe thee also to geue a good eye thereunto and to see if it can anye way possible make for him I say then M. Horne that this allegatiō goeth no further then that the Prince by his cyuill and worldlye power shoulde assiste and maynteyne the Churche and her doctrine And that this allegation directly and rowndly proueth the contrarye of that for the whiche ye doe alleage yt that is that yt proueth the ecclesiasticall authoritie and not the cyuill to be cheif and principall in causes ecclesiasticall And that in effecte the whole tendeth to nothing else but that as I sayde the Princes shoulde defend the Churche I will not stande here in ripping vp of wordes with you or in the diuersity of reading and that some old copies haue who hath committed his Churche to be defended of theire power and that your hath deliuered to be committed seameth to stande in your translation vnhansomly I will saye nothing that credere and committere is all one in Latin Let this goe I finde no faulte with you for translation but for yl application Yf ye had brought this authority to proue that the prince should defende the Churche for the whiche ende and respecte it was writen I woulde say nothing to you But when ye will bleare our eies and make vs so blinde that we shoulde imagine by this saying of Isidore that the king is Supreame Head of the Churche or that his assente is necessarie to the Synodes of Bishops and coūcelles I wil say to you that the cōtrary wil be much better gathered of this allegatiō The very firste wordes wōderfully acrase your newe primacy and somwhat also your honesty peruersly trāslating nōnunquā which is somtime or now and thē into oftētimes But let yt be for nonnunquam sepe let them oftētymes haue the highest authoritye in the Churche Vnlesse they haue yt styll they can not be called the Supreame Heades in all causes ecclesiastical And so theis very words make a good argumēt againste your primacy But now M. Horne what is the cause whie they haue this high authority either somtimes or oftētimes Isidore straytwayes sheweth the cause that they may as your self translate fence by theire power the ecclesiastical discipline Ye heare thē the scope and final purpose of this allegation for Princes authority in matters ecclesiasticall that is to defende the Churche And therefore as I sayde yt is more sutely to reade tradidit defendendam then tradidit cōmittendā And for this cause the Emperours call them selues not capita Ecclesiae not the heades of the Churche sed aduocatos Ecclesiae but the aduocates of the Churche as your self tel of themperour Friderike Goe we now forth with Isidorus But first I aske of you M. Horne that make the Princes to be heades of the Churche and to haue so muche to doe in matters ecclesiasticall that the Bishops can decree nothing that shoulde be auaylable withowt they re special ratification for the setting forth of the which doctrine ye are content for this tyme that priestes shal be priestes and may sweare by their priesthod and not by theire aldermanship or eldership whether suche authority in Princes be absolutelie necessarie to the Churche or no Yf ye say no thē conclud you against your self ād your whole boke Yf ye say yea then conclude you against the truthe and againste your authour who sayeth that suche authority of Princes in the Church is not necessarie but for to punishe those that contemne the worde of doctrine the fayth and discipline of the Churche Of whome haue we receiued M. Horne the worde of doctrine the faythe and discipline of the Churche Of the Apostles and theire successours the Bishoppes or of the Princes I suppose ye will not saie of Princes Then must ye graunt that for these matters the primacy resteth in the clergy of whom the Princes thē selues haue receiued theire faith ād to whom in matters of faith and for the discipline of the Churche they must also obey and as case requireth set forth the doctrine of worde wyth theire temporal sworde Whiche if they do not but suffer throwghe theire slacknes the faythe and disciplyne of the Churche to be loosed God who hath committed his Churche to be defended by theire power wil exacte an accompte of thē as your authour Isidore writeth and your self do allege So that now we see euen by your own allegatiō in whom the superiority of Churche matters remayneth that is in the clergy And that Princes are not the heades but the ayders assisters and aduocates of the Churche with theire tēporal authority And to this ende all that euer ye haue browght in this your boke cōcerning the intermedling of Princes in church affaires cā only be referred And this your own allegatiō is aswel a sufficiēt answere to al your argumēts hitherto laid furth for the princes supremacy as a good iustification of the Clergies primacy Wherfore if you harken but to your owne allegation and will stande to the same as you wil your Readers to do placing it as I haue said in the fore fronte of your booke you must nedes stand also to the next parcell folowing making clerely for the Clergies superioritie in Ecclesiasticall causes These words I mean that withī the Church the power of Prīces shuld not be necessary sauing that that thing which the Priests are not able to do by the word of doctrine the power of the prīce may cōmaūd by terror of discipline And I doubt nothing but that we are able wel and surely to proue as wel by his other bookes as by his gathering of all the Councels together into one volume yet extāt that Isidorus thought of the Popes Primacy then as Catholiques doe now For an euident proufe wherof behold what this Auncient and learned Bisshop Isidorus writeth He saith Synodorum congregandarum authoritas Apostolicae sedi commissa est Neque vllam Synodū generalem ratam esse credimus aut legimus quae non fuerit eius authoritate congregata vel fulcita Hoc Authoritas testatur Canonica hoc Ecclesiastica historia comprobat hoc Sancti Patres confirmant The Authoritie of assembling Coūcelles is committed to the See Apostolike Neither doe we beleue or reade any General Councell to be ratified whiche was not either assembled or confirmed with her Authoritie
cause to make much of this earthly Supremacy For had not the clergy and temporalty geuen that to kinge Henry .8 you and your heresies coulde haue had no place now in the throne of that Bishopprike which was ordayned not for Robert and his Madge but for chast prelates and suche as shoulde preferre the soule before the body the kingdome of heauen before the kingdome of the earthe Peter before Nero Christ before Antichrist For so I doubte not to say with the greate Clerke and most holy Bishop Athanasius that a Christian kinge or Emperour setting him selfe aboue bishops the officers of Christ in matters of the faythe is a very Antichrist Which Antichristian facte in dede hathe bene the first gate and entry for all those heresies to enter ▪ which the Prince him selfe then most abhorred and against the which bothe he had lately before made a lerned booke and did publishe after but in vayne for a stay thereof the six Articles In vayne I say for the order of dewe gouernement ones taken away the knotte of vnity ones vndone the heade being cut of howe coulde it otherwise be but false doctrine should take place a separation from the corps of Christendome shoulde ensewe and our Countrie a parte of the body fall to decaie in suche matters as belonged to the Heade to order direct and refourme This horrible sinne Maister Horne woulde make a vertue But all ages all Councels all Princes yea the holy Scriptures are directly against him and doe al witnesse for the Pope and Bishoppes against the Prince and lay Magistrat that to them not to these belongeth by right by reason by practise the Supreme and chiefe gouernement in al causes and matters mere Ecclesiastical and spiritual M. Horne The .145 Diuision pag. 87. a. To this .475 effect also vvriteth Petrus Ferrariensis a notable learned man in the Lavves saying Thou ignorāt mā thou oughtest to know that the Empire the Emperour ones in tymes past had both the swoordes to witte both the Temporal and Spiritual in so much that the Emperours then bestowed .476 al the ecclesiastical benefices through the 477 whole world and more they did choose the Pope as it is in C. Adrianus Dist. 63. And the same Petrus in an other place saith thus Marke after what sorte and how many vvaies those Clergymen do snare the Lay and enlarge their ovvne iurisdiction but alas miserable Emperours and secular princes which doe suffer this and other things you both make your selues sclaues to the Bisshoppes and ye see the vvorlde vsurped by thē infinit vvaies and yet ye study not for remedy because ye geue no heed to vvisedom and knovveleadge Stapleton YF your law be not better thē your diuinity we neade not much to feare our matter And so much the lesse yf that be true that a good mery fellowe and vnto you not vnknowen reading your boke of late sayd that he durst lay a good wager that yf ye were vppon the sodayne well apposed ye were not able to reade the quotations by your selfe in the margent alleaged out of this Petrus and withal that ye neuer readde that which ye alleage out of Quintinus or yf ye did ye do not vnderstande yt or at the leaste ye doe most wickedly peruerte yt But let this goe as merely spoken for thoughe ye neuer read the authour nor can redely at the first perchaunce reade your owne quotations the whole matter being by some of your frēds and neareste affinity brought ripe and ready to your hand we shal be wel cōtēt frō whēce so euer yt come so it come at length to any purpose and effect whereof I for my parte haue litle hope For what if in the old tyme the Emperours confirmed popes What if the cleargy vsurpe and intrude in many thinges vppon the seculer princes iurisdiction Yf ye may herof make a sequele that either the king of Englād is supreame head of the Church or that the vnlawful promisse made by the bisshops by their priesthod which ye esteme as much as yf they had sworne by Robin hode his bowe doth bynde them as a lawfull promisse I will say ye are sodenly become a notable lawyer and worthy to be retayned of councell in greate affayres I am assured of one thinge that howe so euer ye lyke him in this poynte yet for other poynts of this his boke that you alleage you like him neuer adeale As for the inuocation of Saints yea for the Popes Primacie by the which he sayth A periured man which otherwise is reiected may be by the Popes dispensation admitted to beare wytnes and that a clerke irregular can not be absolued but by the Pope Which followeth the very place by yowe alleaged with many such lyke not making very much to your lykinge Nowe what yf I should say vnto yowe that you and your authour to yf he sayth so say vntruely affirminge the Emperour to haue both the temporall and spirituall sworde And what if I should say that there is no more truth in that assertion than in the other that he bestowed all the benefices through the whole worlde For your chapter Adrianus that you alleage speaketh of the Emperour Charles the great who was not Emperour of the whole worlde nor of halfe Europa neither and therfore he coulde not bestowe the benefices of the whole worlde Yf ye wil say that your authour saith truly and ye haue translated truely for the text is per singulas prouincia◠I graunt yowe it is so but yet is it vnskilfully and ignorantly translated for ye shoulde haue sayed through out euery prouince or contrey subiect to the Romā empire For the Romans did call all countries that they had conquered Italie excepted prouinces and the people Prouinciales I say nothing nowe that this chapter rather enforceth then destroyeth the popes primacy For Charles had neither authority to bestowe the Ecclesiasticall benefices nor to choose the Pope but as he beinge a mere straunger before toke thempire at the popes hand so did he take also this speciall priuilege and prerogatyue M. Horne The .146 Diuision pag. 87. b. Like as Petrus Ferrariensis attributeth bothe the svvordes that is both the spirituall and the temporall iurisdiction to the Emperour So .478 Io. Quintinus Heduus a famous professour of the lavv in Paris and one that attributeth so much to the Pope as may be and much more than ought to be saith that In solo Principe omnis est potestas in the Prince .479 alone is al power and thereto 480. auoucheth this saying of Speculator De iurisdict omnium iudicum Quod quicquid est in regno id esse intelligitur de iurisdictione Regis that whatsoeuer is in a kingdome that is vnderstanded to be vnder the iurisdiction of the kinge To vvhich .481 purpose he citeth an auncient learned one in the Lavve vvhose name vvas Lotharius vvho saith he did say That the
you to the leaues of this booke here noted vnto you in the margin together with the leaues of your own booke Many like gay grāmaticall practises might yet be shewed Yea in your late Visitation at Oxforde exercised by your Chauncelour and sonne in Lawe as beside al lawe you cal him hauing maried your bastard not your lawful daughter in al the copies of articles that your said Chauncelour proposed to be subscribed are these woordes Regina supremus Gubernator Ecclesiae Anglicanae for Suprema gubernatrix And so remaineth that clause to this houre vnreformed So that if it were nothing but for false Latin a scholer might honestly refuse to subscribe to such an Article Nowe what shal I say of your logike and exact kind of reasoning As there is nothing in a writer more requisit that meaneth truly so the more you haue broken the rules therof the more is your shame and the lesse ought the credit of your whole Booke to be I neede not descend to the particulars your perpetuall maner of writing being suche as your whole discourse seemeth nothing els but a mishapen lumpe of lewde and loose argumentes For this being the matter which you haue taken in hande to proue by the examples of other Princes and by the practise of Councells that the Laye Magistrates are Supreme Gouernours in all Ecclesiastical causes this vniuersall proposition being that which should be concluded your premisses are allwaies mere particulars your proufes procede euer of some one fact or matter Ecclesiastical but neuer of all And yet those matters that you bring being partly no Ecclesiastical matters at all partly vntruly fathered vppon the laye Magistrate So that as euer you faile in truth of matter so you neuer make good forme of argument And you can tell your selfe they be your owne wordes that younge Logicians knovve this is an euil consequent that concludeth vpon one or diuerse particulars affirmatiuely an vniuersal This euil consequent M. Horn is the only consequēt that you make in all your booke where you play the Opponents parte For the which I referre you and the Reader to the three first bookes of this Reply VVith the like good logique you lay forthe false definitions and false diuisions of your owne Inuention As for your Rhetorike you worke your matters so handsomly and so persuasiuely that there is not almost any one Scripture any story any Councel any Father any Author that you alleage which maketh not directly against your purpose and beareth withal an expresse and euidēt testimony for the Popes Supremacy not only otherwher but euen in the very same place and allegation that you alleage and grounde your selfe vpon And this chaunceth not once or twise but in a maner customably as by perusing this Reply you shal soone perceyue And therefore I wil not specially note it here vnto you as a rare or seldome thinge Neither will I thanke you for bringing to our handes so good stuffe to proue our principall purpose by but say herein vnto you as S. Augustin sayd in the like case of the Donatistes alleaging the workes of Optatus by the which they were euer confounded and the Catholikes cause maruailously furdered Nec tamē ipsis sed Deo potius hinc agimus gratias vt enim illa omnia vel loquendo vel legendo pro causa nostra promerent atque propalarent veritas eos torsit non charitas inuitauit Neither doe we yet thanke them for their so doing but rather God For that they should bring forth and vtter either by talke or by alleaging al those thinges for our matter the Truth forced them not any Charity inuited thē And truly so M. Horn that by your own Authors you are euer confounded the Truthe of our cause forceth you as not being able to alleage any Author that maketh not for vs not any good wil to our cause or to vs moued you Againe what a newe Cicero or Demosthenes are you that laye forth to M. Fekenham as a good and a persuasible motiue to enduce him to take the Othe of the Prīces Primacy the former erroneous doinges of certayne Reuerend Fathers whereof they haue so farre repented that for refusal of this Othe thei haue suffred depriuation and haue and doe suffer imprisonment and are ready besides by Gods assistance patiently to suffer whatsoeuer Gods prouidence hath gratiously prouided for them Wherevnto both they and other haue good cause much the more to be encouraged cōsidering that after al this struggling and wrastling against the Truth by you ād your felowes M. Iewel and the rest the Truth is daily more and more opened illustred and confirmed And your contrary doctrine is or ought to be disgraced and brought in vtter discredit with such as doe but indifferently weigh the most wretched and miserable handling of the holy Fathers and Councelles before by M. Iewel as al Englande knoweth and nowe by you Maister Horne which are not much inferior to him in that pointe of legerdemayne For as in his most lying Reply against D. Harding so in this your Answer to M. Fekenhams treatise there is neither Scripture nor Coūcel nor doctour nor any thing els that cometh through your hands which you doe not miserably mangle corrupte and peruerte and that by a number of dishonest and shameful shifts which particularly to specifie would be to long and tediouse But to say somwhat for an example the principall parte of all your shifting standeth in a certaine meruelouse kind of a newe and a false Arithmetike somtime by Addition sometime by diminution and Detraction Thus to make your matter of the Princes Supreme gouernement in al ecclesiastical causes more probable you interlace twise these woordes as one that had the cure and authoritie ouer all and againe in the same leaf as one that had authoritie ouer them which you finde not in your Authours Thus you shuffle in this pretye sillable All to Socrates and againe to Theodoretus So you springle in these woordes by his supreame authoritie to your narration out of the saied Theodoretus And by and by to your narration out of Sozomenus these woordes and the Bishops could not remoue him So you adde to Liberatus this woorde depose And to the Actes of the Chalcedon Coūcell these woordes vvhich othervvise must be deposed And to the Actes of the sixt Generall Councell these woordes to examine and confirme You thrust into the narration of Antoninus and Marius that which they say not and to the narration of Quintinus Heduus fyue ful lines that are not in your author touching Pope Iohn the .22 and many other like things otherwhere And yet I can not tel whether your peruersity be more in your false multiplication or in your false diminution In framing the state of the question by the statutes of the realme you leaue out the beginninge and the ende of the Statute You leaue out of
defence if any would charge me so chiefly for these two causes First for that many things in this booke pertaine to certaine priuat doinges betwixt M. Feckenham and M. Horne of the which I had no skil Secōdely for that a number of such priuate matters touching the state of the Realme occurred as to them without farder aduise I could not throughly shape any answer Howbeit afterward it so happened that by suche as I haue good cause to credit there came to my knowledge such Instructions as well for the one as for the other that I was the better willing to employ some study and paines in this behalfe Not for that I thinke my self better able thē other but for that I would not it should seme that there lacked any good wil in me either to satisfie the honest desire of my frēdes or to helpe and relieue suche as by such kinde of bookes are already pitefully inueigled and deceiued or to stay other yet standing that this booke be not at any time for lacke of good aduertisement a stombling stocke vnto them I haue therefore by such helpes as is aboue saied added my poore labour thereto and with some diligence in the reste shaped to the whole booke a whole and a full Reply Wherein I rather feare I haue saied to much then to litle But I thought good in a matter of suche Importance to be rather tedious to make al perfitte then shorte and compendious to leaue ought vnperfecte Before then that thou shalt enter good Reader into the Replie it selfe it shal be well to take some aduertisement with a certaine vewe by a shorte and summary comprehension of the whole matter Whereby bothe to the Cōtrouersy in hande thou shalt come better instructed and what in the whole worke is to be looked for thou shalt be aduertised M. Hornes Answer as he calleth it resteth in two partes In the first and chiefest he plaieth the Opponent laying forthe out of the holy Scriptures bothe olde and newe out of Councelles bothe Generall and Nationall out of Histories and Chronicles of all Countres running his race from Constantine the greate downe to Maximilian greate grādfather to the Emperour that nowe liueth taking by the way the kinges of Fraūce of Spaine and of our owne Countre of England since the Conqueste all that euer he could find by his own study and helpe of his frends partly for proufe of the like gouuernement of Princes in Ecclesiastical causes as the Othe attributeth nowe to the Crowne of Englande partly also for disproufe of the Popes Supremacy which the Othe also principally intendeth to exclude In the second and later parte he plaieth the defendant taking vpon him to answer and to satisfie certaine of M. Feckenhams Argumentes and scruples of conscience whereby he is moued not to take the Othe Howe wel he hath plaied bothe his partes the perusal of this Reply wil declare The doings of eche part vpon what occasion they rose thou shalt vnderstād in our Answer to M. Hornes Preface For the more lightsome and clere Intelligence of the whole that is and shall be saied to and fro I haue diuided the whole Processe into foure bookes keping the same order and course that Maister Hornes Aunswere did leade me vnto To the first parte of the Aunswere wherein he layeth forthe his proufes for defence of the Othe I Replie in three Bookes Comprising in the firste booke his Obiections out of Holy Scripture In the Second his Obiections out of the first six hundred yeres In the third his Obiections out of the later 900. yeares vntil our owne dayes Eche booke I haue diuided into seuerall Chapters as occasion serued In the seconde and third bookes where we enter the course of tymes I haue noted at the toppe of eache page in one side the yeare of the Lorde on the other side the name of the Pope Prince or Councell or other Principal matter in that place debated to th entent Gentle Reader that at the first sight euen by turning of a leafe thou mightest knowe both where thou arte and what is a doing both the Age and tyme which exceedingly lighteneth the matter and also the Pope Prince or Councel of that tyme. In these three bookes what I haue particularly done yf thou lyst shortly to see at the ende of the thirde booke thou shalt find a briefe Recapitulation of the whole To the second part of M. Hornes Answer I haue replied in the fourth Booke By perusing wherof it shal wel appeare both what strong and inuincible Argumentes M. Fekenham right lernedly proposed as most iuste causes of his sayed Refusall and also what seely shifts and miserable escapes M. Horne hath deuised to maintayn that obstinatly which he ons conceyued erroniously Especially this thou shalt find in such places of the fourth book where thou seest ouer the Head of the leaues in this letter The Othe The Othe Now good Reader as thou tendrest thy own Saluatiō and hopest to be a saued soule in the ioyful and euerlasting blisse of Heauē so cōsider and weigh wel with thy selfe the importance of this matter in hand First Religiō without Authority is no Religion For no true Religion saith S. Augustine can by any meanes be receiued without some weighty force of authority Then if this Religiō whereby thou hopest to be saued haue no Authority to ground it self vpon what hope of Saluation remayning in this Religiō canst thou cōceyue If it haue any Authority it hath the Authority of the Prince by whose Supreme Gouernement it is enacted erected and forced vpō thee Other Authoritye it hath none If then that Supreme Gouernement be not dewe to the Laye Prince but to the Spiritual Magistrate and to one chiefe Magistrate among the whole Spiritualty thou seest thy Religiō is but a bare name of Religion and no Religion in dede Again if this Supreme Gouernmēt be not rightly attributed to the Laye Magistrate in what state are they which by booke othe do sweare that it ought so to be yea and that in their Consciēce they are so persuaded Is not Periury and especially a wilful Continuance in the same a most horrible and dānable crime in the sight of God And doth not Gods vengeaunce watche ouer them which slepe in Periury I wil be a Quicke witnesse to Periured persons saith God by the Prophet Malachie Nowe if that Supreme Gouernement may dewly and rightly appertayne to our Liege Soueraigne or be any Principall parte of a Princes Royall power as Maister Horne stoutelye but fondely auoucheth or of his dutifull seruice to God which neuer Prince in the Realme of England before the dayes of king Hēry the .8 vsed or claimed which neuer Emperour Kinge or Prince whatsoeuer without the Realme of Englande yet to this present howre had or attempted to haue which the chiefe Masters of the Religion nowe Authorised in Englande doe mislike reproue and condemne namely Martin Luther Iohn Caluin Philip Melanchthon and the
the Cardinal DuraÌ„dus P. Aemilius Martinus poenitentiarius Polidorus Virgilius And such lyke as he him self declareth otherwhere and in this place also confesseth Nowe all be it the Catholiques refuse no Catholique writer nor in this matter haue cause so to doe yet in a matter of such importance which beside the losse of al teÌ„poral relief and besyde bodily death importeth also euerlasting damnation to the Catholikes if the case stande as M. Horne and his fellowes beare vs in hande reason would he should haue fetched the substance of his proufes much higher yea within the .600 yeres whervnto they strayne and binde vs The which the Catholikes haue already performed against M. Iewel not in the substance of the matter onely but euen in the iustifying of the precise wordes wherein M. Iewel hathe framed to himself by a foolish wylynes or wylye foolyshnes the state of the question I meane for the wordes of head of the Church and vniuersall Busshop And what if M Fekenham nowe Syr would reuel with yow with lyke rhetorike and require of yow to proue by the fathers writing within the sayde .600 yeares these expresse words Supreame heade or gouernour in all causes spiritual and temporal to haue bene geuen and attributed to any ciuil Magistrate Againe that the temporal men without yea and against the consent of the whole clergy altered the state of religioÌ„ called and vsed for Catholik throughout the whole corps of Christendome one thousande yeares before with such other articles as concerne the regiment Ecclesiasticall that ye in this your booke defende Ye haue not no nor ye can not proue any such matter either by expres wordes or by any good induction or consequeÌ„t in the first and former Fathers And yet somwhat were it if the Later Fathers might helpe yow But what an impudent face as harde as any horne or stone haue ye beside your mere foly to make the worlde belieue that the authours aforesayde allowed such kinde of regiment of ciuill Princes as the Catholikes now denye Whiche assertion is so certainely and notoriously false that M. Horne him self can not nor doth not deny but that his owne authours were moste earnest fautours of the See of Rome And howe then maye it ones be thoughte by any wise man that they shoulde allowe the doings of suche that forsake and abandon al maner of authority of that See further then is the coÌ„men authority of al other Bisshops yea and make the Bisshop of that Seâ— to whome the sayde authors attribute so large and ample authoritye and prerogatiue as may be and whome they agnise as supreame iudge in matters of faith a very Antichriste These things be incredible these things as the prouerbe is hange together like germans lipps and so shal ye good Readers see the matter most euidently fal owte And therefore M. Horne where you haue of late openlye sittinge at a table in London as I am credibly informed bragged that ye haue quyte coÌ„futed the Papists with their own papistical Doctors how true this is I trust it shall by this answere plainely appeare M. Horne The 3. Diuision Their iudgements and sentences shal appeare in reading by the forme of letter for leuing foorth the Latine to auoide tediousnes 4. I haue putte into English the Authours mindes and sentences and caused them for the moste parte to be Printed in Latine letters that the English reader may knovv and decerne the Authours sayings from mine If this that I haue done vvorke that effect in the Englishe Reader vvhich he ought to seeke and I dâ— vvishe I haue vvonne that I wrought for but otherwise let men say and iudge what they liste I haue discharged my conscience and shewed the trueth Anno Domini 1565. Feb. 25. Rob. Wynchester Stapleton A great vntruth For M. Horne doth not faithfully but most corruptly and falsly alleage the authours wordes and vseth his owne in steade of theirs and to suche as he truely reherseth he geueth an vnmete and an improbable sense of his own making as we shal particularly notifye when the case requireth THE FIRST BOOKE CONTEINING MANY PRIVAT DOINGES OF M. Fekenham the State of the Queâ—tioÌ„ answer to M. Hornes oppositions out of holy scriptures both olde and newe with a declaration who are the right Donatists Protestants or Papistes M. Fekenham The declaration of such scruples and staies oâ—â—â—â—science touching the Othe of Supremacy as 〈◊〉 â—â—kenham by writing did deliuer vnto the L. Bisâ—â—op of Winchester with his resolutions made thereunâ—â— M. Horne The property of him that meaneth to declare rightly any matter done is to set forth the trueth vvithout malice to obserue the due circumstances of the matter persones and times and to vse simple plainesse vvithout guileful ambiguities 5. This Title is so replenished vvith vntrue report and ambiguous sleightes vvithout the note of any necessary circumstance that there is not almost one true vvorde therein vvhereby you geue at the first a taste to the indifferent reader vvhat he must looke for in the sequele You pretende and vvould haue your frendes to thincke that the first fovver chiefe pointes set foorth in your booke vvere deuised by you put in vvriting and so deliured vnto me as the matter and grounde vvherupon the confereÌ„ce to be had betvvixt me and you should stande And that I made thereunto none other but such resolutions as it hath pleased you .6 vntruly to report In the first parte you conueigh an vntrueth vnder a coulorable and ambiguous meaning in these vvoordes as M. Iohn Fekeâ—haÌ„ by vvriting did deliuer vnto the L.B. of VVinchester In thother part .7 you make an vntrue report vvithout any colour at all I doe graunt and vvill not deny that you deliured to me a booke vvhich I thaÌ„ke God I haue to shevv vvhereby to disproue you The same vvil declare the time vvhen the place vvhere the occasion vvherefore the personnes to vvhome the booke vvas vvriteÌ„ and vvhat is the matter in generall therein conteyned VVhereunto must be added at vvhat time the same vvas deliuered vnto me vpon vvhat occasioÌ„ and to vvhat â—nde Al vvhich circumstances you omitte in your booke published least you shoulde haue bevvrayed your selfe and haue appeared in your ovvne likenesse Stapleton The First Chapter concerning the Title of M. Fekenhams declaration THIS was an happy happe for M. Horne that it happed M. FekenhaÌ„ with the omitting of suche slender circumstances to minister to him matter of such triflynge talke wherein otherwise M. Horne should haue had nothing to haue sayde For here is he very exacte and precise in circumstances to be kepte with al dewe obseruation in a by matter which whether it be true or false doth nothing either preiudicate or touche the principal questioÌ„ that is whether the resolutioÌ„s were made before Maister Fekenham deliuered vp his matter in writing or after For this being true that these resolutioÌ„s were made to take away the scruples and stayes
the ende vve might certainlye goe forvvarde in the pointes materiall that you vvoulde vvryte your Positions or Assertions in fourme of Propositions vvhiche I coulde not cause you to doe in anye vvise but yee vvoulde still stande vncertainelye in graunting and deniyng at your pleasure yea althoughe I for the better agreemente to be had did dravve suche in fourme of Assertion and gaue them in vvrittng vnto you as I gathered of your ovvne mouthe to be your opinion yet vvoulde yee in no vvise stande too and reste in any one certainelye but vsed still your accustomed vvrangling and waÌ„dring at large Vvhiche your behauiour so muche misliked mee that I coulde not but earnestly charge you vvith inconstancie in that yee woulde sometimes denie that yee before had graunted and also graunte that yee before denyed Then being so muche pressed herevvith and perceiuing that your frovvarde quarelling vvith the plaine vvoordes of the Statute coulde no lenger couer your euill meaning at the length you did require that I vvoulde put in vvriâ—ing the vvoordes of the Othe vvith the sence or interpretation added thereunto as you considering thereuppon might deuise the fourme of your Propositions vvhereuppon we might afterwarde debate By this it may appeare bothe how vntrue it is that you hitherto had deliuered vnto mâ—e any suche scruples of yours in writing as you pretende in the Title for then I needed not to haue sought any Propositions of your Assertions and also how vntrue that is that the interpretation of the Othe whiche I wrote at your requeste before I euer sawe anye writing of yours was to answere your scruples and staies deliuered to mee in writing The Seconde Chapiter declaring by the way the order of the late disputations at Westmynster HERE is no matter effectual but that may seme already by our former answere sufficiently discharged sauing that it serueth to accumulate and increase the heap of M. Horns vntruths as that this shedule should be made not without the helpe of the rest How proue you that M Horn As it may be gathered ye say yea but why haue you so sone forgotteÌ„ your late lessoÌ„ Where be your circumstances that enforced yow so to gather why were they not according to your owne rule specified Againe ye say M. Fekenham was so answered at your hands that he had nothing to obiecte but semed to be resolued and in a maner satisfied Syr we cal vpon yow yet ons againe to remember your former rule with the which ye so straitly and vaynly charged M. Fekenham But yet here ye seame to be somwhat better aduised mollifying the matter with these wordes in a maner satisfied other wise yt had passed al good maner and honesty to so vntruly to make that reporte the coÌ„trary being so wel knowen that he neuer yelded vnto you in any one pointe of religioÌ„ neither in courte nor yet in manour nor else where Then haue we an heape of other vntruthes packed vp together As that M. Horne should haue a good meaning towards M. Fekenham making of him within six lines after an vntrue and a slanderouse report as to reuolte from the relligion by him receiued and professed at baptisme to reuolte from the fayth of Christes Catholike Churche â–ª to reuolte from al the most blessed Sacraments and from the vnity of the saide Churche and thereby to become as starke a schismatike and an heretike as M. Horne him selfe ys Was this M Horne your good and frendly meaninge towards M. Fekenham He thaÌ„keth yow for nawght he will none of it he hath espyed yow ye proferre him to muche wronge Of like sorte is your other saying of M. Fekenhams frende that should stande by when yow made relation of the hope ye had of M. Fekenhams conformity and that M. FekenhaÌ„ vpoÌ„ your reporte to him by his frend should be more repugnant then he was before This seemeth to be made of your owne head to furnishe your own forged tale withal Which if it had bene true why did yow not according to your owne rule set forthe the truthe thereof obseruing the dewe circumstances of the matter person tyme and place But this incomparably passeth and farre excedeth al your other forsayde vntruthes that ye say M. Fekenham should so shrinke from his coÌ„federats as yow terme them more maliciously theÌ„ truely in the confereÌ„ce made at Westminster that they should euer since conceiue a feare of his constancy in religion I beseach yow good Syr in what one point of religion did he shrinke from his company in that coÌ„ference at Westminster Was the matter wherin he dissented from them any other than this That whereas both they and he also hadde agreed vppon a booke towching the questions then in controuersie betwene yow and theÌ„ the right honorable Lord keaper of the great seale commaunded them in the Quene her highnes name to beginne and to reade their booke first which they refused to doe and yet he for his parte thought it not good to disobey the Quenes highnes commaundemente therein and thervppon offered himselfe to beginne the disputation and the Lord keper would not permit him so to doe what an offence I beseache yow hath M. Fekenham coÌ„mitted herein so great as worthy a dashe with your penne What shrynkinge in religioÌ„ cal yow this when in the defence thereof he did so openly proferre him self to put forthe the first argumente The booke that was set forth of the sayd conference for the disgracing and depressing of the Catholiks dothe yet geue some commendation to M. Fekenham for the cause aboue sayde and nothing towcheth him with any suspicion of inconstancy or mambring in religion as ye most vniustly doe This is your own fyne and singular inuention And now here on s againe we must plucke yow by the hornes and cal yow home to your owne rule and demauÌ„de of yow Sir how know yow that his Towre fellowes haue conceiued such a feare of him What proufe are ye now able to make thereof Ye haue spoken the words ye haue writen them ye haue set them forth in printe to the vewe and sight of the worlde And that I trowe of a very good meaninge towardes M. FekenhaÌ„ Yea forsothe Who seeth it not and withal what an honorable prelate yow are thus to stuff and farse your booke with an heape of such ouersights and open vntruthes I might now passe forth to the residewe of M. Hornes book sauing that the meÌ„tioÌ„ of the confereÌ„ce at Westmynster and the book thereof made occasioneth me a litle to speake thereof for that I perceiue many are slaundered therby surmifyng the Catholiks gaue ouer for that they were not able to defende and mainteyne their side But these meÌ„ shal vnderstaÌ„de that the very cause was that they might not be suffred to reply to their aduersaries but were commaunded straite to a new question the first vndetermined and nothiÌ„g by them answered by reason their replication was cut of I speake nothing of the vneuen dealing and handling
behoueth vs al with al our harte to pray let them be feruente in the godly zeale of religion but they may not be heads of the Churche in no case for this Supremacy doth not appertayne to them These are no Papistes I trowe Maister Horne but youre owne deare brethern of Magdeburge in their newe storie ecclesiastical by the which they would haue al the worlde directed yea in that story whereof one parcel Illiricus and his fellowes haue dedicated to the Quenes Maiesty that beare the worlde hand they are the true and zelouse schollers of Luther In case ye thinke their testimony not to haue weight enowgh then herkē to your and their Apostle Luther who writeth that it is not the office of Kings and princes to cōfirme no not the true doctrine but to be subiecte and serue the same Perhaps ye wil refuse and reiecte bothe the Magdeburgenses and Luther to as your mortal enemies yow being a sacramentarye and such as take yow and your fellowes for stark heretiks A hard and a straunge case that now Luther cā take no place amōge a nōber of the euāgelical brethern What say yow then to Andreas Modreuiu◠Surely one of the best lerned of al your sect How lyke yow then him that saieth there ought to be some one to be taken for the chiefe and Supreame head in the whole Churche in al causes ecclesiastical Wel I suppose you wil challenge him to as a Lutherane Yf it muste neades be so I trust M. Caluin your greatest Apostle shal beare some sway with yow I know ye are not ignorante that he calleth those blasphemers that did call kinge Henry the eight Supreme heade of the Churche of Englande and handleth the kinge hī selfe with such vilany and with so spitefull woords as he neuer handled the Pope more spitefully and al for this title of Supremacy which is the key of this your noble booke Can ye now blame the Catholikes M. Horne yf they deny this supremacy which the heads of your owne religion aswel Lutherans as Zwingliās doe deny and refuse O what a straunge kinde of religion is this in Englande that not onely the Catholikes but the very patriarches of the new euangelical brotherhod doe reiecte and condemne Perchaunce ye wil saye Wel for al this there is no Englishe man of this opinion Mary that were wonderfull that if as we be sequestred and as it were shut vp from other countres by the great Ocean sea that doth enuyrō vs so we should be shut vp from the doctrine as wel of the Catholiks as also the Protestants of other cōtreis and that with vs the Lutherans and Zwingliās should finde no frendes to accompany them in this as wel as in other points But contente your self M. Horne and thinke you if ye do not alredy that either your self or many other of your brethern like the quenes supremacy neuer a deale in hart what so euer ye pretēd and dissemble in words Think ye that Caluin is so slenderly frended in Englād his bookes being in such high price and estimatiō there No no it is not so to be thought The cōtrary is to wel knowē especially the thing being not only opēly preached by one of your most feruēt brethren there in England euen since the Queenes maiesties reigne but also before openly and sharply writen against by your brethren of Geneua Especially one Anthonie Gilbie Whose wordes I wil as wel for my discharge in this matter somewhat at large recite as also to shew his iudgement of the whole Religion as well vnder King Henrie as King Edward and so consequently of the said Religion vnder our gracious Quene Elizabeth nowe vsed and reuiued that all the worlde may see that to be true that I said of the Supremacie as also that the feruent brethren be not yet come to any fixe or stable Religion and that they take this to be but simple as yet ād vnperfit In the time saith he of King Henrie the eight when by Tindall Frith Bilney and other his faithfull seruauntes God called England to dresse his vineyarde many promised ful faire whome I coulde name but what fruite followed Nothing but bitter grapes yea bryers and brambles the wormewood of auarice the gall of crueltie the poyson of filthie fornication flowing from head to fote the contempt of God and open defence of the cake Idole by open proclamation to be read in the Churches in steede of Gods Scriptures Thus was there no reformation but a deformation in the time of the Tyrant and lecherouse monster The bore I graunt was busie wrooting and digging in the earth and all his pigges that followed him but they sought onely for the pleasant fruites that they winded with their long snoutes and for their owne bellies sake they wrooted vp many weeds but they turned the ground so mingling good and badde togeather sweet and sower medecine and poyson they made I saye suche confusion of Religion and Lawes that no good thing could growe but by great miracle vnder suche Gardeners And no maruaile if it be rightlye considered For this Bore raged against God against the Diuell against Christe and against Antichriste as the some that he caste out againste Luther the racing out of the name of the Pope And yet allowing his lawes and his murder of many Christian souldiars and of many Papists doe declare and euidentlie testifie vnto vs especially the burning of Barnes Ierome and Garrette their faithfull preachers of the truthe and hanging the same daye for maintenaunce of the Pope Poel Abel and Fetherstone dothe clearelie painte his beastlines that he cared for no Religion This monsterous bore for all this must needes be called the Heade of the Churche in paine of treason displacing Christe our onely head who ought alone to haue this title Wherefore in this pointe O Englande ye were no better then the Romishe Antichriste who by the same title maketh him selfe a God and sitteth in mens consciences banisheth the woorde of God as did your King Henrie whome ye so magnifie For in his beste time nothing was hearde but the Kings Booke the Kings Procedings the Kings Homilies in the Churches where Gods woorde onelie should haue ben preached So made you your King a God beleuing nothing but that he allowed I will not for shame name how he turned to his wonte I will not write your other wickednesse of those times your murders without measure adulteries and incestes of your King and his Lordes and Commones c. Loe Maister Horne howe well your Protestante fellowe of the beste race euen from Geneua lyketh this Supremacie by plaine woordes saiynge that this title whiche you so stoutlye in all this your booke auouche displaceth Christe who owghte and that onely to enioye it And whereas ye moste vntruely saye heere that we make the Pope our God in earth Maister Gilbie saieth that you make your Prince a God in attributing to her this wrong title
the time of kinge Edvvard also For although you vvere in the Tovver in his time that vvas not for any doubt you made of his Supremacy for that you stil agnised but for other points of religiō .30 touchīg the ministratiō of the Sacramēts vvhervnto you also agreed at the last promised to professe preach the same in opē auditory whersoeuer you should be apointed .31 VVherupō a right vvorshipful gentleman procured your deliuerāce forth of the Tovver and so vvere you at liberty neuer mēcioning any dout in this matter but agnising the Prīces supremacy in causes ecclesiastical VVherfore I may safly say that the ignorāce and vvāt of knovvledge vvhich you pretend in your Minor Propositiō is not of Sīplicity and therfore must nedes be of vvilfulnes or malice or mixt of both The vvay and meane vvherby to haue this ignoraūce remoued you assigne vvith this issue that vvhē I proue vnto you by any of the fovver meanes that any Emperour or empresse King or Quene may take vpō thē any such gouernmēt in spiritual or ecclesiastical causes thē you vvil yeelde take vpō you the knovvledge thereof and be ready to testifie the same by booke Othe Truely I haue often and many times proued this same that you require and by the self same meanes in such sort vnto you that you had .32 nothing to saye to the contrarie And yet neuerthelesse you continue still in your vvilfull and malicious ignorance vvhich causeth me to feare that this sentence of the holy ghost vvilbe verified in you In maleuolam animam non introibit sapientia Yet I vvil ones again proue after your desire euen as it vvere by putting you in remembraunce of those things vvhich by occasions in conference I often and many times reported vnto you vvhereof I knovv you are not simply ignoraunt The 6. Chapter defending M. Fekenham and others of wilful and malitious ignorance for not taking the Othe NOw are M. Fekenham and M. Horne come to cople and ioyne together in the principal matter M. Fekenham first saieth he neither knoweth this kīd of supremacy that M. Horn auowcheth nor yet any way how to achiue or obtain to any such knowledge M. Horne saith he might well put M. Fekenham to his prouf that he is not ignorāt But by the way I trow of some meritoriouse supererogation or as one fearing no ieberdy he aduentureth the prouf himself that M. Fekenham is not ignorant of this supremacy and further to binde M. Fekenham the deaper to him for his exceding kindnes wil shew for M. Fekenhams better excuse o gentle and louing hart that M. Fekenham is not ignorāt of simplicity but of wilfulnes and plain malice As touching this threfolde ignorance by M. Horne alleaged out of the bookes of S. Thomas as I wil not stycke with him for that distinction so onlesse he can proue by S. Thomas or otherwise that the ignorāce of this surmised supremacy includeth wilfulnes or malice in M. Fekenham or any such like parson the distinction may be true but the cause neuer a deale furthered Suerly yf ther were any ignorance in this point it were such as S. Thomas and other cal inuincicle ignorance by no study or diligence able to be put away and therfore pardonable But now the very authour brought forth by M. Horn so fully and effectually dischargeth M. Fekenham of al thre and chargeth M. Horne with the worste of them three that is wilfulnes and malice as he shal winne smal worship by alleaging of S. Thomas For S. Thomas saieth plainly that we are obliged and bound vpon paine of euerlasting damnation to belieue that the Pope is the only supreme head of the whole Church And leaste M. Horne may reiecte his authority which he can not wel doe vsing yt himself as a late Latin writer and to much affectioned to the Pope S. Thomas proueth his assertion by Cyrill and Maximus two notable and auncient writers amonge the Grecians Wherfore it foloweth that neither M. Fekenham nor M. Horn nor any other Christiā man can know the contrary being such an euident and a daungerouse falshod as importeth eternal damnation Nay saith M. Horn how can M. Fekenhā pretende ignorance herein when aswel in King Henry as King Edward his dayes he set forth in his open sermons this supremacy And so doe yow now good M. Horne and yet none more ignorant and farder from knowledge than yow For notwithstāding al your great brags and this your clerkly booke ye knowe not nor euer shall knowe but that the Pope is the supreame head of the Churche Wel ye may as ye doe most falsly and to your poore wretched sowle as well in this as in other pointes most daungerouslye belieue the cōtrary but knowe it you can not onlesse it were true For knowledge is only of true things and as the philosopher saith scire est per causas cognoscere And ye doe no more knowe it then the other matter that ye here also affirme of M. Fekenhā that he promised to professe and preache in open auditory in King Edwards dayes certaine points touching the ministration of the Sacraments contrary to his former opinion And vpon such promise was discharged out of the towre which yet ye know not to be true for it is starke false And I pray yow how fortuned it that his promisse so made to recante was neuer required of him being the onely thing that was sowght for at his handes The cause of his imprisonment then as I vnderstande by such as wel knoweth the whole matter was not abowte the ministration of the Sacraments but towching the matter of Iustification by onely faith and the fast of Lent lyke as it doth appere in the Archbishoppe of Caunterburies recordes he being therfore in a solempne sessiō holdē at Lābeth hal conuented before M. Cranmer then Archebisshop of Caunterbury and other commissioners appointed for that matter By the examination of the which recordes yow shal be conuinced of your vntruthe and errour therein as in al the rest I dowbt not by Gods helpe And touching the right worshipful gentleman ye meane of that is Sir Philip Hobbey which did as ye saye vpon M. Fekenhams promise and submission procure his deliueraūce out of the towre As it is very true he did so So it is false and vntrue that he did the same vppon any promise of recantation or of preaching in open auditory before made of his parte But the verye intente of the borowing of M. Fekenhā for a tyme out of the towre lyke as he saide him self was that he should dispute reason and haue cōferēce with certaine learned men touching matters of religion then in controuersie And according therunto the first day of disputation was betwixte thē and him at the right honorable my Lord erle of Bedfords house then lodged ouer the gate at the Sauoy The seconde daie was at the house of Syr William Cicill Knight
to the vnitie of the Churche and to represse their heresies vvith their authoritie and godlie lavves made for that purpose to vvhome it belonged of duetie and vvhose especial seruice to Christ is to see care and prouide that their subiectes be gouerned defended and mainteined in the true and sincere religion of Christ vvithout al errours superstitions and heresies as S. Augustine proueth at large in his Epistle against Vincentius a Rogatist in his Epistle to Bonifacius and in his booke against Petilian and Gaudentius letters Against this Catholique Doctrine your auncestours the Donatistes arise vp and defend them selues vvith this colour or pretence that they be of the Catholique faith and that their church is the Catholique church VVhich shift for their defence against Gods truth the Popish sectaries doe vse in this our time being .51 no more of the one or of the other then vvere the Donatists and such like of vvhom they learned to couer their horrible heresies vnder the same faire cloke that the secular Princes haue not to meddle in matters of religion or causes Ecclesiastiall That God committed not the teaching of his people to Kings but to Prophetes Christ sent not souldiours but fishers to bring in and further his religion that there is no example of such order found in the Gospell or nevv Testament vvherby it may appeare that to secular Princes it belongeth to haue care in matters of religion And that as it semeth by that S Augustine by preuention obiecteth against them they subtilly refused all proufes or examples auouched out of the Olde testamente as ye craftely doe also in binding me onelie to the Nevv testament vvhich S. Augustine calleth an odious and vvicked guile of the Donatists Let your friends novv vvhome ye vvill seeme to please so much vvhen you beguile them most of all vveigh vvith aduisement vvhat vvas the erronious opinion touching the authoritie of Princes in causes Ecclesiastical of the Donatists as it is here rightly gathered foorth of S. Augustine and let them consider vvisely these foule shiftes they make for their defence And then compare your opinion and guilefull defences thereof to theirs and they must needs clappe you on the backe and saye to you Patrisas if there be any vpright right iudgement in them deming you so like your graundsier Donatus as though he had spitte you out of his ovvne mouth The .16 Chapter declaring in howe many pointes Protestants are Donatists and by the way of M. Foxes Martyrs Stapleton HITHERTO good Reader M. Horne although vntruely yet hath he somwhat orderlike proceeded But in that which followeth vntill we come to the .20 leafe beside moste impudent and shamelesse lyes wherwith he would deface M. Fekenham he prosequuteth his matter so confusely and vnorderly leaping in and out I can not tel howe nor whither that I verely thinke that his wits were not his owne being perchance encombred with some his domestical affaires at home that he could not gather them together or that he the lesse passed what an hodge potche he made of his doings thinking which is like that his fellowes Protestantes woulde take all things in good gree knowing that poore M. Fekenham was shut vp close inough from al answering And thinking that no Catholique els woulde take vppon him to answere to his lewde booke I had thought M. Horne that from the olde Testament ye woulde haue gone to the newe Testament and woulde haue laboured to haue established your matters therby Belike the world goeth very hard with you in that behalfe that ye doe not so sauing that here and there ye iumble in a testimonie or two I can not tell how but howe vnhandsomly and from the purpose yea against your owne selfe that I wot well and ye shall anon heare of it also In the meane while it is worth the labour well to consider the excellent pregnant witte and greate skill of this man who hath in the former Treatise of M. Fekenham espied out which surely the wisest and best learned of all the worlde I trowe beside M. Horne would neuer haue espied such a special grace the man hath geuen him of his maister the Deuill of mere malice ioyned with like follie that M. Fekenham is an Heretike and a Donatist But yet M. Fekenham is somewhat beholding to him that he saith M. Fekenham hath bewrayed his secrete heresies Wherein he saith for the one part most truely For if there be any heresie at all in this matter surmised vppon him as certainly there is none it is so secrete and priuie that Argus himselfe with al his eyes shall neuer espye it no nor M. Horne him selfe let him prie neuer so narrowly whereas on the other side M. Horn and his fellowes and his Maisters Luthers and Caluins heresies are no secrete nor simple heresies but so manifolde and so open that they haue no waye or shift to saue their good name and honestie blotted and blemished for euer without repentance for the obstinate maintenance of the same Where of many were many hūdred yeares since condemned partly by the holy Fathers partly by General Councels You say M. Fekenham hath secrete heresies and that Donatus is his great grandsi◠and the Donatists the Catholikes auncetours but how truly you shal vnderstād anon In the meane while good Syr may it please you fauourably to heare you and your maisters honorable pedegre and of their worthy feares and prowes You haue heard of them before perhaps and that by mee But suche things as may edifie the Catholike ād can neuer be answered by the Heretike Decies repetita placebunt Howe say you then to the great heretik Aerius the Arrian that said there was no difference betwene priest and Bisshop betwene him that fasted and that did not faste and that the sacrifice for the deade was fruitlesse How say you to Iouinian that denied virginity to haue any excellencye aboue matrimony or any special rewarde at Gods handes To the Arrians that denied the miracles done at the saintes tōbes to be true miracles and that the martyrs cā not caste out the diuels and relieue thē that be possessed To the Bogomyles that said the deuils sate at the saints tōbes and did wonders there to illude and deceiue the people to cause the people to worship them To Berengarius condemned in diuers councels first for denying of the real presence in the sacrament of the aulter and then for denying the transubstantiatiō To the Paulicians that saied these wordes of Christe Take eate this is my body are not to be vnderstanded of his bodye or the breade and wine vsed at the celebration of our Lordes maundy but of the holy scriptures which the Priests should take at Christes hand and deliuer and distribute to the people To Claudius and Vigilantius that denied the inuocation of Saintes and inueyed against the blessed reliques and the vse of Lights and other ceremonies in the Church To the Massalians and other heretiks
saying that concupiscence as a sinne remayneth in vs after holy baptisme And because ye shal not say I suppresse conceile or obscure the chief and most notable persons of your auncetry how say you to the Emperours Philippicus Leo Constantinus condēned with their adherētes by the .7 general coūcel at Nice that vilayned by defacing breaking and burnīg the Images of al the holy hallowes of Christ ād Christes to To whome for your more honour and glorye I adioyne the Emperour Iulianus the Apostata Who as ye doe in your books and pulpits cried out vpon the Christiās O ye wretched men that worship the wood of the crosse setting vp the figure of it vppon your forehed and dores you therefore that are of the wiseste sorte are worthy to be hated and the residewe to be pityed that treading after your steppes come to such a kinde of Wretchednes To the Pelagians affirming that children not baptized shal be saued And yet are your maisters in this point worse then the Pelagians as wel for that some of them haue said that some Infants thowgh vnbaptized shal be damned and some other though vnbaptized shal be saued And some of them especially Caluin and other Sacramentaries say that they shal come without Baptisme to the Kingdom of heauen which the Pelagians durste not say but that they should haue the life euerlasting putting a difference but peuishly betwixte those two And if ye thinke the race of your worthye generation is not fetched highe inoughe we will mounte higher and as high as maye be euen to Simon Magus him selfe Of whome Marcion and Manicheus and after long and honorable succession your Patriarches Luter and Caluin haue learned their goodly doctrine against free will Yea to touche the verye foundatiō and wel spring of this your new gospel which altogether is grounded vpō iustificatiō without good works in that also ye drawe very nigh to the said Simon Magus I forbeare at this time to speake of the residewe of your noble progenitours hauing in other places as I noted before spoken largely of the same This shall suffice at thys present to make open to all the world that they are no petit or secrete heresies that ye and your fellowes mainteine Come foorthe once and cleare your selfe of this onelye obiection if yow can being so often pressed therewith If you maintaine olde condēned heresies what are yow lesse then heretiks your selues If yow maintaine them not or if they be not olde heresies which you maintaine clere your self if you be able I assure you M. Horn you and al your felowes wil neuer be able to auoide this one onely obiectiō And therfore you and al your fellowes must nedes remaine stark hereticks and for such to be abhorred and abādonned except you repēt of al good Christiās Now as I haue proued yow and your companions open and notable heretiks so shal I straite way purge M. Fekenham to be no Donatist or any heretik otherwise for any thing yet by you layde to his charge But now Maister Horne beware your self leaste this vniuste accusation against Maister Fekenham and the Catholikes whome ye cōpare to the Donatistes causelesse moste iustly and truely redounde vpon your and your fellowes heades Beware I say For I suppose I will laye more pregnante matter in this behalfe to your and their charge then ye haue or possible can doe to Maister Fekenham or any other Catholike whereof I dare make any indifferent Reader iudge If I should dilate and amplifie this matter at large yt would rise to a prety volume but I will purposely abridge yt and giue the Reader as it were but a taste They were al called first Donatistes but as the first fell from the Churche Catholike so fell they also afterwarde from their owne Churche and maister into an horrible diuision of the Maximianistes Circumcellions Rogatistes Circenses and others A lyuelye paterne of the sectes sprōg from your Apostle Luther as in their pedegree in the Apology of Staphylus euery man may see The Donatistes would somtyme crake and bragge of their multitude and bring it as an argument that the truth was on their side as doth your Apologie Which being restrayned by the Emperours Lawes and dayly diminishing then they cried the truthe resteth with the fewe elected and chosen parsons then cried they O lytle flocke feare not as ye did when ye were as yet but in corners rotten barnes and Luskye lanes The Donatistes when they could not iustifie their own doctrine nor disproue the Catholiks doctrine leauing the doctrine fel to rayling against the vitiouse lyfe of the Catholiks In this point who be Donatists I referre me to Luthers and Caluins books especially to M. Iewel and to your owne Apologie The Donatistes refused the open knowen Catholicke Churche and sayde the Church remayned onely in those that were of their side in certayne corners of Afrike And sing not ye the like songe preferring your Geneua and Wittenberge before the whole Catholike Church beside The Donatistes corrupted the Fathers books wonderfully and were so impudent in alleaging them that in their publike conference at Carthage they pressed much vppon Optatus wordes and layde him forth as an author making for them who yet wrote expressely against them and in all his writings condemned them Is not this I pray yow the vsuall practise of your Apostles Luther and Caluin of M. Iewel and your own to in this booke as I truste we haue and shal make it most euidēt And here let M. Dawes beare you company to in the crafty and false handling of his own deare brothers Sleydans story where he leaueth out Alexander Farnesius oration to the Emperour wherein he sheweth the Protestants dissensions The Donatists to get some credite to their doctrine pretended many false visions and miracles and they thowght that God spake to Donatus from heauen And doth not M. Foxe in his donghil of stinckinge martyrs pretely followe them therein trowe you Hathe not the lyke practise bene attempted of late in Hūgary to authorise the new ghospell by pretēding to restore lyfe to an holy brother feyning him self to be dead and by the great prouidence of God found to be dead in dede Did not your Apostle Luther boast himself of his visions and reuelations Which how coelestiall they were doth sone appere for that hī self writeth that the deuil appered vnto him in the night and disputed with him against priuate masse by whose mightye and weightye reasons Luther being ouerthrowen yelded and incontinently wrote against priuate masse as ye cal it Did not the Donatists preferre and more exsteme one national erroniouse councel in Aphrica then the great and general coūcel at Nice kepe not ye also this trade preferring your forged Conuocation libell before the Generall Councel of Trident The Donatists said that al the world was in an apostasie at the cōming of their apostle Donatus And
put in practise wheÌ„ this of .71 Psalm should be fulfilled and al the kings of the earth shal worship Christ and all nations shall serue him c. As yet in the Apostles time this prophecy saith he was not fulfilled and now ye Kings vnderstand be learned ye that iudge the earth and serue the Lorde in feare with reuerence VVhen the Christian Emperours and Princes saith this Catholique Father shal heare that Nabuchodonozor after he had seene the marueilouse power of almighty God in sauing the three yong men from the violence of the fire walking therin without hurte was so astonied at the miracle that he him selfe beinge before this but a cruell Idolatour beganne forthwith vpon this wonderous sight to vnderstand and serue the Lorde with reuerent feare Doo not they vnderstande that thâ—â—e thinges are therefore writen and recited in the Christian assemblies that these should be exaÌ„ples to themselues of faith in God to the furtherance of Religion These Christian rulers therefore minding according to the admonition of the Psalme to vnderstand to be learned and to serue the Lord with reuerent feare do very attentiuely giue eare and marke what Nabuchodonozor after said for he saieth the Prophet made a decree or statute for al the people that were vnder his obeissaÌ„ce that who so euer should after the publicatioÌ„ therof speak any blasphemy against the almighty they should suffer death aÌ„d their goods be coÌ„fiscate Now if the Christian Emperours aÌ„d Kings do know that Nabuchodonozor made this decree agaiÌ„st the blasphemers of God surely they cast in their miÌ„des what they are bouÌ„de to decree in their kiÌ„gdoms to wit that the self same God and his SacrameÌ„ts be not lightly set by and coÌ„temned Thus farre S. Augustin By vvhose iudgement being also the iudgement of the catholik Church it is manifest that the order rule and gouernment in Ecclesiastical causes practised by the Kinges of the olde Testament being figures and prophecies of the lyke gouernment and seruice to be in the Kinges vnder the nevv Testament is the order of gouernment that Christ left behinde him in the Ghospel and nevv Testament and so directly confuteth your .52 erroneous opinion Stapleton Lo nowe haue we moe testimonies of S. Augustine to proue that for the which he hath alleaged many things out of S. Augustin alredy and the which no man denieth For what els proueth al this out of S. Augustine both now and before alleaged but that Christen Princes ought to make lawes and coÌ„stitutions euen as M. Horne him self expoundeth it fol. 12. b. for the furtherance of Christes Religion This thing no Catholike denieth And for my parte M. Horne that you may not thinke I haue now ben first so aduised vppon sight of your booke I haue forced that argument with many ExaÌ„ples of Godly Emperours and Princes in my dedicatory Epistle to the Quenes Maiesty before the translated history of venerable Bede Briefly al S. Augustins words force nothing els but that ChristeÌ„ Princes may make lawes to punish heretikes for that in dede was the very occasion why S. Augustin wrote al this and ought to fortifie the decrees of the Priests with the executioÌ„ of the secular power when obstinat heretickes wil not otherwise obey Thus it serueth our turne very wel But nowe that Maister Horne may not vtterly leese all his labour herein lette vs see howe these matters doe truely and trimly serue against his deare brethern and M. Foxes holy Martyrs to We saye with S. Augustin that Princes may punishe wicked deprauers of religion And we further say that ye are those We say with saint Augustine that Christian Princes may make a decree yea of death as did Nabuchodonosor against the blasphemers of God and carefully prouide that God and his sacrameÌ„ts be not lightly coÌ„teÌ„ned We say ye are as great blasphemers as euer Christes Church had we say ye be they that haue conteÌ„ned Christes Sacramentes making of seueÌ„ two and vsing those two after such sorte that the olde prouerbe may the more pitye in a maner take place as good neuer a whit as neuer the better We say further that not onely the generall Councell of Trente but that the whole Churche hath condemned your opinions by general and national Councelles manye hundred yeares synce And that Christian Emperours Christian Princes as well in other countries as in Englande especiallye the noble and worthye Kinge Henrye the fyfte haue made many sharpe lawes yea of death against heresies We do not nor neuer did disalowe these their doinges as repugnante either to the olde or new Testamente Why then cal you for this respecte the Catholykes Popishe Donatistes But will ye know Maister Horne who be in this point in very dede the Doltishe Deuelishe Donatists Hearken on well and ye shall heare The Donatistes as S. Augustyne reporteth sayde It was free to belieue or not to belieue and that faith shoulde not be forced Was not this I pray you the coÌ„moÌ„ song of the Luterans in Germany and Englande at their beginning Was not this your Apostles Luthers opinion that no man should be compelled to the faith And as there are many dissensions diuisions schismes betwixte you the Sacramentaries and the Lutherans so are you diuided also in this pointe For your M. Caluin writeth that a maÌ„ may laufully and by Gods law be put to death for heresie as he practised himself also burning Seruetus the Arrian at Geneua But al Luthers schollers in Germany are not so forward Yea some of your holy martyrs auouche that the King caÌ„ make no law to punish any maner of crime by death aÌ„d that al such lawes are contrary to the Gospel This was the opinioÌ„ of Sir Thomas Hytton priest and yet is he a blessed martyr in M. Foxe his holy KaleÌ„der aÌ„d we must kepe his feast the x. of March by M. Foxe Yet in a book of praiers set foorth by the brotherhod anon vpon his death he is appointed to the .23 of February and so either M. Foxe or they misse the marke Except the one day be of his Martyrdom and the other of his TranslatioÌ„ And whereas M. Fox saith that there remaineth nothing of the saide Sir Thomas in writinge but onely his name which is a lye and more to by a syllable and that I heare saye he is busye to sette forthe a freshe in printe yet ons againe his huge monstruous martyrloge I wil doe so much for him as minister him plenty of good stuffe I warrante you to set forthe and adorne at his next edition this worthy chaÌ„pioÌ„ withal I do therfore remit M. Foxe to Sir Thomas Mores books There lo is matter inough for M. Fox aÌ„d to much to for eueÌ„ by your own coÌ„fessioÌ„ he is no secret but an opeÌ„ daÌ„nable heretik aÌ„d a Donatist aÌ„d so I trowe no martyr but yet good inowgh aÌ„d as good as the residew of this worthy KaleÌ„der But now hath M. Foxe a
his own supreme Authority depose and set vp bisshops and Priests make Iniunctions of doctrine prescribe order of Gods seruice enact matters of religion approue and disproue Articles of the faith take order for administration of Sacraments commaunde or put to silence preachers determine doctrine excommunicat and absolue with such like which all are causes ecclesiastical and al apperteyning not to the inferiour ministerye which you graunt to Priestes and bisshops onely but to the supreme iurisdiction and gouernment which you doe annexe to the Prince onely This I say is the state of the Question now present For the present Question betwene you and M. Fekenham is grounded vppon the Othe comprised in the Statute which Statute emplieth and concludeth al these particulars For concealing whereof you haue M. Horne in the framing of your ground according to the Statute omitted cleane the ij clauses of the Statute folowing The one at the beginning where the Statute saith That no forayn person shall haue any maner of Authority in any spirituall cause within the Realme By which wordes is flatly excluded all the Authority of the whole body of the Catholike Church without the Realme As in a place more conuenient toward the end of the last book it shal by Gods grace be euidently proued The other clause you omitte at the ende of the said Satute which is this That all maner Superiorities that haue or maye lawfully be exercised for the visitatiō of persons Ecclesiasticall and correcting al maner of errours heresies and offences shall be for euer vnited to the Crowne of the Realme of Englande Wherein is employed that yf which God forbidde a Turke or any heretike whatsoeuer shoulde come to the Crowne of Englande by vertu of this Statute and of the Othe al maner superioritye in visiting and correcting Ecclesiastical persones in al maner matters should be vnited to him Yea and euery subiecte should sweare that in his conscience he beleueth so This kinde of regiment therefore so large and ample I am right wel assured ye haue not proued nor euer shal be able to proue in the auncient Church while ye liue When I say this kinde of regiment I walke not in confuse and general words as ye doe but I restrayne my self to the foresaid particulars now rehersed and to that platte forme that I haue already drawen to your hand and vnto the which Maister Fekenham must pray you to referre and apply your euidences Otherwise as he hath so may he or any man els the chiefe pointes of all being as yet on your side vnproued still refuse the Othe For the which doinges neither you nor any man else can iustly be greued with him As neither with vs M. Horne ought you or any mā els be greued for declaring the Truth in this point as yf we were discōtēted subiects or repyning against the obediēce we owe to our Gracious Prince and our Countre For beside that we ought absolutely more obey God then man and preferre the Truth which our Sauiour himself protested to be encouraging al the faithful to professe the Truth and geuing them to wit that in defending that they defended Christ himself before al other worldly respects whatsoeuer beside al this I say whosoeuer wil but indifferently consider the matter shal see that M. Horne himselfe in specifying here at large the Quenes Mai. gouernement by the Statute intended doth no lesse in effect abridge the same by dissembling silence then the Catholikes doe by open and plain contradiction For whereas the Statute and the Othe to the which all must swere expresseth A supreme gouernment in al thinges and causes without exception Maister Horne taking vpon him to specifie the particulars of this general decree and amplyfying that litle which he geueth to the Quenes Maiesty with copy of wordes ful statutelyke he leaueth yet out and by that leauing out taketh from the meaning of the Statute the principal cause ecclesiasticall and most necessary mete and conuenient for a Supreme Gouernour Ecclesiasticall What is that you aske Forsoth Iudgement determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise For what is more necessary in the Churche then that the Supreme gouernour thereof should haue power in al doubtes and controuersies to decide the Truthe and to make ende of questioning This in the Statute by Maister Hornes silence is not comprised And yet who doubteth that of al thinges and causes Ecclesiastical this is absolutelye the chiefest Yea and who seeth not that by the vertue of this Statute the Quenes Maiesty hath iudged determined and enacted a new Religiō contrary to the iudgement of all the Bisshops and clergy in the Conuocation represented of her highnes dominions Yea and that by vertue of the same Authority in the last paliament the booke of Articles presented and put vp there by the consent of the whole conuocation of the newe pretended clergy of the Realme and one or ij only excepted of al the pretended Bisshops also was yet reiected and not suffred to passe Agayne preachinge the woorde administration of the Sacramentes binding and loosing are they not thinges and causes mere Spirituall and Ecclesiasticall And howe then are they here by you omitted Maister Horne Or howe make you the Supreme gouernment in al causes to rest in the Quenes Maiesty yf these causes haue no place there Which is nowe better I appeale to al good consciences plainly to maintayne the Truthe then dissemblinglye to vpholde a falshood Plainly to refuse the Othe so generallye conceyued then generally to sweare to it beinge not generallye meaned But now let vs see how M. Horne wil direct his proufes to the scope appointed THE SECOND BOOKE DISPROVING THE PRETENSED PRActise of Ecclesiastical gouernement in Emperours and Princes of the first .600 yeares after Christ. M. Horne The .28 Diuision pag. 19. b. Constantinus of vvhose careful gouernmēt in Church causes I haue spoken somevvhat before tooke vpon him and did exercise the 70. supreme rule and gouernement in repressing al maner Idolatrie and false Relligion in refourming and promoting the true religion and in restreining and correcting al maner errours schismes heresies and other enormities in or about religion and vvas moued herevnto of duety euen by Gods vvorde as he him self reporteth in a vehemēt prayer that he maketh vnto God saiyng I haue takē vpō me and haue brought to passe helthful things meaning reformation of Religion being perswaded therevnto by thy word And publishing to all Churches after the Councel at Nice vvhat vvas there done he professeth that in his iudgement the chiefest end and purpose of his Imperial gouernement ought to be the preseruation of true religiō and godly quietnes in al Churches I haue iudged saith this godlye Emperoure this ought before all other thinges to be the ende or purpose wherevnto I should addresse my power and authority in gouernement that the vnitie of faith pure loue and agreemēt of religiō towardes the
at Constantinople and to the Emperours speach the secoÌ„d time after his banishmeÌ„t Where the Emperour desirous to trie him asked Arrius if he agreed with the Nicene Councel vpon which request he offred to the Emperoure a supplication and a foorme of the Catholike confessioÌ„ pretending to sweare to that but deceauing the prince with a contrary faith in his bosome and swearing to the faith in his bosome By these means th'Emperour dimissed him And therevpoÌ„ the factioÌ„ of Eusebius weÌ„t forthwith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with their accustomed violeÌ„ce saith Theodoret to AlexaÌ„der the B. of CoÌ„stantinople and required him to receiue him into CoÌ„munion The Bishop vtterly refused to do it notwithstaÌ„ding the Courtiours request or Princes pleasure because saith AlexaÌ„der being by a whole CouÌ„cell coÌ„demned he caÌ„ not be restored The factioÌ„ of Eusebiê° thretned AlexaÌ„der that if he would not by faire meanes restore him they would force him therto by foule meanes saiyng As against your wil we haue made him come to the Emperours speach so to morow against your wil we wil make you to receiue him into your Church To this point therfore the mater was now brought that Eusebius with his faction conducted by force Arius to the Cathedrall Churche at Constantinople there by violeÌ„ce to Church him But lo as they were going with al their heretical band to the church to play this part God shewed his mighty haÌ„d euen as he did vpoÌ„ the Egyptians in the read sea specified in the old TestameÌ„t or vpon Iudas in the new For in the way Arius was driueÌ„ to seke a place to ease nature where sodainly he auoided with his excrementes his very bowels and entrails aÌ„d in that filthy place gaue ouer his foule filthy stinking soule A mete carpet for such a squier And this is loe the mother Churche whervnto Arius was restored and vnited For other restitution by the true Catholike Bishops whose office it was as ye haue heard to restore him had he none And nowe with this miserable and wretched ende of this Archeheretike Arius wil I also end the doiÌ„gs of CoÌ„stantine the great wherin I haue so farre forth proceeded as M. Horne hath ministred occasion As for the Councel of Tyrus whereof here againe meÌ„tion is reiterated I haue spoken both in this boke aÌ„d also against M. Iewel as is before noted And now may I boldly vnfold your coÌ„clusion M. Horne where you say that the Nicen bisshops agnised this kind of regimeÌ„t in the great CoÌ„stantine â–ª and say quite coÌ„trary they agnised no suche regimeÌ„t which also I haue proued against you eueÌ„ by your own examples of CoÌ„stantine and the Nicen Fathers especially of Athanasius present at the said Councell M. Horne The .39 Diuision pag. 25. b. Constantines sonnes claimed and toke vpoÌ„ them the same authority that their Fathers had done before them and as Zozomen .101 reporteth of them did not only vpholde and mainteine the ordinaunces made by their father Constantine in Church matters but did also make nevv of their ovvne as occasion serued and the necessitie of the time required Constantinus after the death of his father restored Athanasius vvhom his father had .102 deposed to his bishoprike againe vvriting honourable and louing letters to the Churche of Alexandria for his restitution Constantius deposed Liberius the Bisshoppe of Rome for that he vvoulde not consent to the condemnation of Athanasius in vvhose place Foelix vvas chosen vvhom also the Emperour deposed for the like cause and restored again Liberius vnto his bisshoprik vvho being moued vvith th' Emperors kindnes as som vvrite or rather being ouercome vvith ambition .103 becam an Arrian This Emperour deposed diuers bisshops appointing other in their places He called a Synod at Millayn as Socrates vvitnesseth saiyng The Emperour commaunded by his Edict that there shoulde be a Synod holden at Millayn There came to this Councell aboue .300 Bishoppes out of the VVest Countries After this he minded to call a generall Councell of all the East and VVest Bysshops to one place vvhich coulde not conueniently be brought to passe by reason of the greate distaunce of the places and therefore he commaunded the Councell to be kept in tvvo places at Ariminum in Italie and at Nicomedia in Bythinia The .5 Chapter What Ecclesiasticall gouernement the Sonnes of Constantine the Great practised Stapleton YF Constantines Sonnes claimed the same authoritie that their Father had in causes Ecclesiasticall then were they no supreame Iudges no more then their Father was who was none as I haue said and shewed Yet saith M. Horne They not only mainteined their Fathers ordinaunces in Church matters but also made new of their owne But al this is but a loud and a lewd lye Which to be short shal sone appeare in the wordes of Zozomene M. Hornes Author who in the boke aÌ„d chapter quoted by M. Horne writeth thus The Princes also he meaneth Constantines Sonnes concurred to to the encrease of these things he speaketh of encreasing the Christian faith shewing their good affection to the Churches no lesse then their Father and honouring the Clergy their seruaunts and their domesticals with singular promotions and immunites Both confirming their Fathers lawes and making also of their owne against such as went about to sacrifice to worship idols or by any other meanes fell to the Grekes or Heathens superstitions Lo M. Horne heare what your Author saith As before CoÌ„stantine promulged lawes against Idolatrie and honored the Church of Christ and the ministers thereof so did his Sonnes after him As for Church matters as Constantine the Father made no lawes or decrees therto apertaining no more did his SoÌ„nes It is but your impudent vntruth Now touching the first and eldest sonne of Constantine called also Constantine we haue here of him as many lies as lines First in that M. Horne saith that his Father deposed Athanasius who was deposed by the Bishops and not by Constantine for he banished him but depose him he neither did nor could The second that this Constantine restored him to his bishoprick againe wherein he belyeth and so maketh the third lye his Author Theodoret who speaketh of none other restitution but that he released him from exile and banishmente which ye wote is no Bishoply but a Princely function and office But now we may be of good comforte For hauing boren out this brunt I trust we shal shift wel inough for all the residue For now lo we haue an Emperour that as far as I can see tooke vppon him in dede in many things M. Hornes supremacy Which may be proued by Athanasius Hosiê° Hilarius aÌ„d LeoÌ„tius Bisshops of the very same time But praise be to God that the same men al notable lightes of the Catholike Church which declared that he vsed this authority do withal declare their great misliking thereof aÌ„d make him soâ— of theÌ„ a plain foreruÌ„ner of Antichrist as I haue before declared out
that the Bishops would not assemble onlesse th'Emperour would be there personally for feare of seditiō and tumult of Eutyches disciples It was therfore translated to Chalcedo being nigh to Constantinople that the Emperour might be there the more cōmodiously And so that which was done by the good Emperor to assure ād honour th'Eclesiastical authority ye turne it to the hinderance and derogation of it But in the supplicatiō of Eusebius which you haue put so at large in your booke it is a world to see how vntruly you haue dealt partly with nipping of sentences in the midst partly with false translation First you leaue out at the very begīning of the Bishops supplication wherin he shortly declareth the whole effect of his request saiyng The entēt and purpose of your clemency is to prouide for all your subiects and to helpe all that are iniuriously oppressed but especially such as beare the office of Priesthod By this beginning it appereth the Bishop requested onely the Emperours external and ciuill power for redresse and help against iniuries And because this should not so appere you thought good to leaue it quite out Againe in the processe where the sayed Bisshoppe saieth Prostrate we beseech your clemencie that ye will commaund Dioscorus to answere to the matters we shall obiect against him It fololoweth which you leaue out the euidences of his doinges against vs being read in this Councell by which words the bishop required the Councel to be his Iudge not the Emperor and least that shuld appere you leaue it out At the end where the latine hath perferre ad scientiam vestrae pietatis omnia quae geruntur you turne it to make relation of all thin-that are don to be iudged where you haue put in these words to be iudged of your own liyng liberality more then your latine hath and al to persuade that the bishoppe requested here the Emperoure to be the Iudge betweene Dioscorus and him Which if ye had put in the whole wordes of your Author would haue easely appeared nothing so but rather the contrarye as by the places by you omitted and nowe by me expressed the circumspect Reader may sone perceiue Thus like as your doctrine so is your manner of writing false vnperfect and vntrue Againe in all this tale Maister Horne though you tell vs at large howe the Emperoures Marcian and Valentinian sente their letters of Summons to all Bisshoppes commaunding them c. Yea adding threattes and punishmentes to those that refused to come at appointmente Yet you tell vs nothing that the Emperoure firste wrote vnto Pope Leo and obteined his consente and Authoritye And then that in his letters of Summones to al Bishops certified them expressely of the Popes pleasure and last of all that the Popes Legates required the Emperours to be presente personallye at the Councell or els they woulde not come there them selues All this yow lette passe In deede it maketh not for yow But it sheweth against yow and for vs very well and plainely that the supreme summon and citing of the bishops to that general Councel yea and the Emperours owne presence there proceded directlye and principally from the Pope and his Legats It declareth well the Popes supremacy in that affaire as we shal in many other moe pointes decypher vnto yow anon more at large Neyther doth the Emperour vse in his letters of Sūmon the wordes of commaundemente but saith Venire dignemini Vouchesafe ye to come And againe Adhortamur we exhort you to come This was the practise of Emperours as I haue noted before out of Cusanus by the way of exhortation to call Councels not by forceable cōmandement by threates and punishmēt as you vntruely report M. Horne The .48 Diuision pag. 31. b. The Emperour assigneth Iudges and 143. rulers in the Sinode about .24 of the chiefest of his Nobles and Senatours After al the Bishoppes and the Iudges vvere assembled in the councell house vvhiche vvas in S. Euphemies Church the Emperour Martianus vvith Pulcheria entreth in amongst them and maketh an Oration vnto the vvhole Councel to this effecte First he declareth vvhat zeale and care he hath for the maintenance and furtherance of true Religiō Then he shevveth that partely the vanitie partely the auarice of the teachers had caused the * discorde and errour in Religion He addeth the cause vvherefore he chardged them vvith this trauaile And last of all he .144 prescribeth a fourme after vvhich they must determine the matters in controuersy This done the Iudges sate doune in their places and the Bisshoppes arovve some on the right hand and others on the left hande And vvhan that Dioscorus vvas accused and the Iudges vvilled him to vse his lavvfull defence there began to be amōgst the Bisshops vvhote scholes vvanting some modesty vvherefore the Iudges at the first stayed them vvith milde vvordes VVilling them to auoide confusion but being earnest they ouershot the modesty of so graue men vvherefore the honourable Iudges and Senate of the Laity appointed by the Emperour did reproue them saying These popular acclamations neither becommeth Bisshoppes neither yet helpe the parties be ye quiet therefore and suffer all thinges to be rehersed and heard in order with quietnes VVhen the Iudges and Senate had duely examined the causes they gaue .145 sentence to depose Dioscorus and others So that this their iudgement semed good to the Emperour to whom they referred the whole matter The .13 Chapter Of the Chalcedon Councell and how the Emperour with his deputies dealed therin Stapleton WE are now in order come to the Coūcel of Chalcedo the actes whereof being very long and tedious the leaues in the great volume rising to the number of one hundred and more M. Horne hath here and there pried out good matter as he thinketh to depresse the Popes primacie withal Wherein he so handleth himselfe that he semeth to me for many causes neuer to haue read the acts but to haue taken things as they came to his handes ministred by his friends or by his Latine Maisters Ones this is sure that for some of his allegations a man may pore in the booke til his eies dasel againe and his head ake ere he shal find them and in such prolixitie of the matter when he hath found them and well weighed them a man would thinke that M. Horne had either lost his wits or els were him selfe a sleape when he wrote those arguments or els which is worst of al that he was past al shame and grace For as ye saw good Readers the Ephesine so shall ye now see the Councell of Chalcedo by no cleare candle or torche but all in a darke horne Wherein he playeth like a false wilie marchaunte that will not shewe his wares but in a darke shoppe But by Gods helpe I shall bring his naughty marchādise into the bright shining light that al men may openly at the eye see al the leudnes of it
impudently in going about to make your Readers belieue that Richaredus and other Princes after him were takē for Supreme heades of the Church till now in these later daies and most blasphemously in calling the Pope for this mater the childe of perdition As wel might you for this cause haue called Gregorie so too Who is surnamed as ye here write the Great But God wotteth and the more pitie not very great with you and your fellowes Of al bookes his writinges beare most ful and plaine testimonie for the Popes singular praeeminence whiche thing is in an other place by me largely proued that though the matter here semeth to require somewhat to be said I neede not say any thing but onely remit the Reader to that place where he shal finde that S. Gregorie practised this Supreme authoritie as wel in Spain as other where throughout the whole Christened world But what saith S. Gregorie Forsothe that the King Richaredus by his carefull and continuall preaching brought Arrians into the true faith S. Gregorie saith wel And yet you wil not I trow say The Prince himself preached in pulpit to the Arrians What then Verelye that which he did by his Clergie and to the which he was a godly promoter that he is saied to doe him selfe As to preache to conuert heretiques to decree this or that and briefely to gouerne in causes Ecclesiastical All which the Prince in his owne person or of his owne authority neuer dothe But by his furderance such things being done he is saied sometimes as here of Saint Gregorye to doe them him selfe We might now passe to the next mater sauing that as ye without any good occasion or bettering of your cause bring in that Richaredus woorked these thinges without Pope Gregorie So it may be feared ye haue a woorse meaning and that ye doe this altogeather craftely to blemishe and deface Sainte Gregorye with the ignoraunte Reader Els tell me to what purpose write ye that Saint Gregorye was asshamed of him selfe and his owne slacknesse Why bringe you in these woordes of Sainte Gregorye What shall I aunsweare at the dreadfull doome when youre excellencye shall lead with you flockes of faithfull ones which ye haue broughte into the true faithe by careful and continuall preachinges I muste then either to refourme your ignorance if ye knew it not before or to preuent your readers circumuention by your wilye handeling of the mater like to be perchaunce miscaried if ye knewe it before admonish you and him that this is spoken of S. Gregorye in deede but as proceeding from a maruelouse humilitye and lowlines In like maner as he wrote to Sainte Augustine oure Apostle in the commendation of his doings wherein yet vndoubtedly he was a great doer him selfe many wayes as by the Historie of Bede clerely appeareth Otherwise though Richaredus doings be most gloriouse and worthy of perpetuall renoune yet shal S. Gregory match him or passe him Neither shal he altogether be voide of his worthy cōmendation concerning his care for the refourming of Spaine and repressing of heresies there either by his authority or by his learned woorkes Verely Platina witnesseth that by the meanes of this Gregorie the Gothes returned to the vnite of the Catholike faithe Whiche appeareth not at that time any otherwhere then in Spaine Hearken farder what Nauclerus one that you ofte reherse in this your booke writeth of him In super Beatus Gregorius c. Beside this Saint Gregorie compelled the Ligurians the Venetians the Iberians which had confessed their schisme by their libell to receiue the Decrees of the Councell of Chalcedo and so broughte them to the vnitye of the Churche He reduced them from Idolatrye partely by punnisshmente partlye by preaching the Brucians the people of Sardinia and the husbandmenne of Campania By the good and mightye authoritie of his writings and by Ambassadours sente in conueniente time he sequestred from the bodye of the Churche the Donatiste Heretiques in Affrique the Maniches in Sicilie the Arrians in Spaine the Agnoites in Alexandria Onely the Heresie of the Neophites in Fraunce rising by Symoniacall bribes as it were by so manye rootes was spreade farre and wide againste the whiche he valiauntlye foughte labouring mightelye against it to the Queene Brunechildis and to the Frenche Kinges Theodoricus and Theodobertus till at the lengthe a Generall Councell beinge summoned he obteined to haue it vtterlye banned and accursed This saith Nauclerus of other Countries Now what nede I speake of our Realme the matter being so notoriouse that by his good meanes by his studye and carefulnes we were brought from most miserable idolatrie to the faith of Christe And therefore as our Venerable Countreyman Bede writeth we maye well and oughte to call him our Apostle Rectè nostrum appellare possumus debemus Apostolum Quia cum c. For saith he wheras he had the chiefe Bisshoprike in all the worlde and was the chiefe Ruler of the Churches that long before were conuerted to the faithe he procured oure Nation that before that time was the Idols slaue to be the Church of Christ. So that we may well vse that saiyng taken from the Apostle All were it that he were not an Apostle to other yet is he our Apostle We are the seal of his Apostlesship in our Lord God It appeareth that S. Gregorie had to doe in Ireland also by his Ecclesiastical authoritie Thus much haue I here spoken of S. Gregorie either necessarily or as I suppose not altogether without good cause Surely not without most deape harte griefe to consider how farre we are gon from the learning vertue and faith whiche we nowe almost one thousande yeares past receiued at this Blessed mans handes Which altogether with our newe Apostle M. Horne heere is nothing but Grosse ignorance And this blessed and true Apostle of our English Nation no better then the child of perdition That is as he meaneth in dede a plaine Antichriste I pray God ones open the eyes of our Coūtrie to see who is in dede the true Antichrist and who are his messengers and forerunners thereby carefully and Christianly to shun as well the one as the other Christ is the Truth it selfe as him selfe hath said Who then is more nere Antichriste then the teacher of Vntruthes And what a huge number hath M. Horne heaped vs vppe in that hitherto hath bene answered being litle more then the third part of his boke Yea in this very Diuision how doe they muster Some of them haue already ben touched But now to the rest more at large let vs ouer runne the Diuision shortly againe First besides his false translation putting for repairing the order of Ecclesiasticall discipline to make a new fourme thereof as though that King altered the old Religion of his realme and placed a newe neuer vsed before in Christes Churche as M. Horne and his fellowes haue done in our Countrie beside this pety
a general councel for that beloÌ„ged to the Emperour vvho in that time vvas busie in the vvarres against the Saracens He waited saith Platina for the returne of the Emperour This Constantinus surnamed Pogonatus about the yeere of the Lord 680. calleth the Bishoppes out of all coastes vnto a general Councel in his letters of Sommons to Donus but committed to Agatho Bishop of Rome Donus beinge dead he admonisheth him of the contention betvvixt the sea of Rome and Constantinople he exhorteth him to laie aside al strife feruencie and malice and to agree in the trueth vvith other addinge this reason For God loueth the trueth and as Chrysostome saith He that wil be the chief amongst all he must be minister vnto all by vvhich reason made by the Emperour it may seeme that the pride of those tvvoo seates striuinge .260 for superioritie and supremacie vvas a great nourishment of the Schisme vvhich vvas chiefly in outvvarde shevve only for doctrine He protesteth that he vvill shevve him selfe indifferent vvithout parciallitye to anye parte or faction onely seekinge as Godde hath appointed him to keepe the Faith that he had receiued vvholye and vvithout blotte He exhorteth and commaundeth the Bishoppe of Rome not to be an hinderaunce but to further this Councell vvith sending such as are fitte for such purpose The bishop of Rome obeyeth the Emperours .261 commaundement And the like letters the Emperor sendeth to George Bishop of Constantinople and others The Emperour sat in the councell him selfe as President and moderatour of al that action hauing on his right hande a great company of his Nobles and of his Bishoppes on his lefte hand And vvhan the holy Ghospelles vvas broughte foorth and laide before them as the .262 iudges vvhose sentence they ought to follovve as it vvas also vvonte to be doone in the fornamed Councels The deputies for the bishoppe of Rome stande vppe and speake vnto the Emperour in moste humble vvise callinge him moste benigne Lorde affirminge the Apostolike seat of Rome to be subiect vnto him as the seruant vnto the Maister and beseechinge him that he vvil commaunde those that tooke parte vvith the bishoppe of Constantinople vvhich had in times paste brought in nevve kinds of speache and erronious opinions to shevve from vvhence they receiued their nevve deuised Heresies The Emperour commaundeth Macarius Archebishoppe of Antioche and his side to ansvveare for them selues And after diuerse requestes made by him to the Emperour and graunted by the Emperour vnto him the Emperour commaundeth the Synode to staie for that time The .5 Chapter Of the sixt Generall Councell holden at Constantinople vnder Pope Agatho Stapleton MAister Horne as he sayeth returneth againe to Agatho wherin he doth wel for this hath bene an extrauagant and an impertinent discourse But he returneth withall to his accustomable dealing sayinge that pope Agatho of his owne authoritie coulde not call a councell Which neither his authour Platina sayeth nor anie other nor he him self proueth He coulde M. Horne haue called a Councell and so he did call at Rome at this verie tyme a great Councell of an 1â—5 Bisshoppes our contreyman S. Wilfryde Archbisshoppe of Yorke and the Apostle of Sussex being one of them without the Emperor and such as this Emperour him selfe confesseth to be a general Councell But because the schisme of the Monothelites was deaply setled in Grece and was fast and depelye rooted by continuance of .46 yeares not onely in the Bisshoppes of the chiefe sees as Constantinople Alexandria Antiochia and others but also in the Emperours withall full godly and wisely that the Councell might be more effectuall and fruytful he thowght good to worke with the aduice and assistance of the Emperour and so he did And this his godly pollicy had his prosperouse successe accordingly Maister Horne will nowe recite to vs his collections oute of this Councell called the .6 Generall Councell that he hath gathered but how well and fytlye to proue his matter ye shal anone vnderstande for the confirmation of his newe erected primacy And first he glaunceth at the See of Rome surmising that because the Emperour exhorted the Pope to vnity the pride of Rome and of Constantinople striuing for superiority and supremacy was a greate nourishment of the Schisme This is a lewde and a false surmise For the Emperour in that place expressely telleth by the reporte of the Greeke Patriarches the cause of that stryfe to be quòd verba quaedam nouitatis intromissa sunt that certaine newe doctrine was brought into the Churche And will Maister Horne haue his vnproued surmise to waighe downe the Emperours plaine confession The malice you talke of Maister Horne is in your self â–ª It was not in Pope Agatho The Emperour protesteth you say to kepe the faith that he hadde receiued wholy and without blotte Woulde God all Christen Princes had done so You hadde hadde then Maister Horne no place in our countre to preache and sette forthe your damnable heresies You say farder The Bisshop of Rome obeyed the Emperours commaundement And this also you note verye solemnely in your Margin But both your text and your margin by your leaue lyeth For the Emperour in his letters to the Pope wherein he inuited him to this Councel saith plainely Inuitare rogare possumus ad omnem commendationem vnitatem omnium Christianorum necessitatem verò inferre nullatenus volumus Well we may moue you and praye you to fall to an vnity but force you by no meanes wil we Where then is this forceable commaundemeÌ„t that you imagine You woulde faine haue the Emperours very Imperiall ouer Popes and Bisshoppes You woulde as Auxentius the Arrian Bisshop did Laicis ius sacerdotale substernere bring vnder the Laye Princes foote the Priestly right and Authoritye You woulde haue them as the Arrians persuaded Constantius 〈◊〉 being sette to gouerne one thinge to take vpon them an other thing This with your predecessours hereticall Bisshoppes your prelatship also would Emperours shoulde take vppon them But they expresselye refuse so to doe they proteste the contrary they abhorre suche lewde clawebackes You adde farder that in the Councell the holye Gospelles was brought forthe and layde before them as the iudges This is a flatte vntruthe The Councel hath no such woordes I meane that the Gospels were Iudges No doubte but by the ghospels the Councel did iudge and determine the controuersies and had alwaies those holy books before theÌ„ as also a Signe of the Crosse and other relikes as Cusanus writeth But a Iudge must speake and pronounce a Sentence Such is not the Scripture but such are they that be as the Apostle saith Dispensatores mysteriorum Christi the dispensours of the mysteries of Christ the ordered teachers of his woorde the successours of his Apostles But you to make folke wene that Scripture alone were the only Iudge as though the booke could speake and geue sentence it selfe without a Teacher or
of S. Augustyne that thys was the gwise and fasshion of the anciente Church The lyke sleight M. Horne vseth touching pilgrimage the whiche his owne canon highly comendeth thowghe full wisely and discreetly yt preuenteth and reformeth some abuses Wherfore ye shall heare the whole canon I will shifte no worde but only froÌ„ Latyn into the english In the former canoÌ„ the couÌ„cel forbadde that priests shuld goe on pilgrimage without the coÌ„sent of their Bishoppe to Rome or to Towres a towne in France where at the tombe and reliques of blessed S. Martyn innumerable miracles were donne and wrowght as amonge other Gregorius Turonensis Bishop there and a faythfull reporter not by vncerteyne hearesay but by presente eiesight moste fully declareth The whiche holy reliques the hugonotes of late in FraÌ„ce haue with moste vilany dishonored and consumed After which inhibition it followeth For say the Fathers some meÌ„ which vnaduisedlie vnder the cowlour of prayer goe in pilgrimage to Rome to Towres and other places doe erre very much There are priestes and Deacons and other of the Clergie which liuing dissolutely thinke them selues to be purged of their sinnes and to dooe their office if they ones come to the foresaid places There are neuerthelesse laye menne whiche thinke they haue freelye sinned or may freely sinne because they frequente these places to make their prayers in There be some Noble men which to scrape and procure mony vnder the pâ—etence of their pilgrimage to Rome or to Towres oppresse many poore men and that which they doe vpon couetousnesse only they pretend to doe for prayers sake and for the visiting of holy places There are poore men which doe this for no other intent but to procure to them selues a greater occasioÌ„ to begge Of this number are they that wandering hither and thither faine neuerthelesse that they goe thither or that are so foolisshe that they thinke they are by the bare view of holie places purged of their sinnes not considering that saying of S. Hierome It is not praise worthiâ— to hâ—ue seene Hierusalem but to haue liued vertuouslie at Hierusalem Of all whiche things lette vs looke for the iudgemente of our Emperoure howe they maye be amended But those who haue confessed themselues to their parrissh Priestes and haue of them taken counsell how to doe penance if imploying them selues to praier and almes geuing and to the refourming of their life and maners they desire to goe on Pilgrimage to Rome or els where are of allmen to be commended for their deuotion The Fathers also desire the Emperours healpe and assistaunce not his Order as you vntruely reporte for publique peÌ„naunce Beside if it had pleased you yee mighte haue caste in also a woorde or twoo more Vt secundum ordinem Canonum pro merito suo excommunicetur That accordinge to the order of the Canons he may according to his deserts be excommunicated And now good Reader iudge thou how truely how wisely or how to his purpose this gere is brought furth of M. Horne and what a singular good grace this man hath so wel to plead against him selfe and his fellowes for the Catholiques And nowe would I be in hande with Leo sauing that Maister Hornes Marginall Note seemeth to take me by the hand and to staie me a while And yet we wil foorth with shake him of and desire Maister Horne to ouersee his text ones againe and to square his Note to his Texte and not his text after his peruerse and preposterous order to his note I say then M. Horne ye haue no words nor mater in your text to cal Carolus Magnus Gouernour in Ecclesiastical causes and because beside your Note Marginall ye note the matter also so fast in your text which is not in the Fathers text saying the Fathers saye in playne speach that he was ruler of the Church in Ecclesiasticall causes I wil note as fast as you and that is your one false lying in your text and the other in the margent Onles ye may by some new Grammar and like Diuinitie proue that in seruitio suo in his seruice is Englished also In ecclesiastical matters You tell vs farder M. Horne that in this Councell of Ments the States were diuided The Bisshoppes and secular Priestes by them selues The Abbottes and Religious by them selues But you tell vs not wherein euery State was occupied and busied in that Councell That in deede made not for you The Councel then saith In prima turma consederunt Episcopi c. In the first rewe sate the Bisshops with their Notaries reading and debating vppon the holy Ghospel the Canons of the Church diuers works of the holy Fathers and namely the Pastoral of S. Gregory searching and determining thereby that which belonged to holsome doctrine and to the state of the Church In the seconde rew sate the Bisshops and approued Monks hauing before them the rule of S. Benet and seking therby to better the life of Monks to encrease their godly conuersation In the third rew sate the Laye Nobilitie and Iudges But what to doe M. Horne To conclude of matters of ReligioÌ„ as the laie Burgeses and GeÌ„tlemen do in our ParliameÌ„ts No no Neque nos neque Ecclesia Dei taleÌ„ consuetudineÌ„ habemus Neither we nor the Church of God haue any such custom or maner But there thei sate In mundanis legibus decertantes c. Debating in worldly lawes searching out Iustice for the people examininge diligently the causes of all that came and determining Iustice by al meanes that they could Thus were the States in that Councel diuided vnder that Noble Emperour Charlemain And what could this Note helpe you M. Horne or relieue you except it were that you would geue a preuy nippe to the order of late Parliaments where the laie not onely of the Nobilitie but euen of the Commons whose sentences in treatie of Relligion neuer sence Christe suffred were euer hearde or admitted doe talke dispute yea and conclude of Religion and that in the highest and most secrete mysteries thereof to the consequente of a Generall alteration You woulde no doubte as gladdelie as Catholiques haue the treatie and decision of suche matters in youre owne handes onely as in deede all Protestauntes beside you Caluin Melanchthon the Magdeburgenses with the reste doe expresselye teache as I haue bothe in this booke and otherwhere declared But this is the difference You are miserable clawbackes and as Caluin writeth to extolle the Ciuill Magistrate you spoyle the Churche of her dewe Authoryte But the Catholikes thinke it not mete to flatter in ReligioÌ„ But to geue that which is Cesars to Cesar and that which is Gods to God Excepete we shoulde saye that now you will haue Religion decided in parliament and when the Prince shall otherwise be affected you will not haue it so decided and that your Religion is Ambulatoria a wandring and a walking Religion teaching one thinge to day and an other to
that yt is moste vntrue ād for the which as ye lay forthe no prouf so shal ye neuer be able to proue yt And yet if ye coulde proue yt ye shoulde dooe none other thinge then that whiche yee doe so solemnlye in the rest of youre booke to proue that which being proued doth yet nothing relieue your cause And thinke you M. Horne that we are so bare and naked from many good proufes but that we may and canne roundlie and redely disproue your fond foolish lye Yea and by that booke by the which your Apostle Caluin and your great Iewell of Englande will though not to their great worship defeate the Second Generall Councell of Nice The Churche of Rome saith he is preferred before all other Apostolicall Sees not by the Decrees of Synodes but by the authoritie of our Lord him selfe saying thou art Peter and so forth And saith farder that he doth most desire to obey the holsom exhortatiōs of Pope Adriā and that Italy Frāce and Germanie doe in al things follow the See of Peter And now wot ye what M. Horne Forsoth this his answere proueth M. Iewell as wel in the Apologie or who so euer be the Author as in his Replie to M. D. Harding to haue ouerthrowen not the Nicene Councell wherein this Adrians Legates bare the chiefe sway as they did also in the Councell at Frankfoorde as I haue shewed but hys owne peeuish and fantastical imagination that this Charles should at Frankford disalow the said Nicene Synode But I trow ye be as wery and as much ashamed ere this time of this counterfeit Charles booke wherein by the foolish and fond handling of the iconomache the cause of the Catholike Church is cōfirmed as your fellowes wil be shortly of this your boke that I doubt not to all that be not sinistrallie affectioned shal serue rather for the confirmation then abrogation of the Popes Primacie And because as I say I suppose ye wil your selues shortly disclaime this peuish booke I wil send you to Carolus him selfe in his Ecclesiastical decrees collected by Abbat Ansegisus whome ye authorise in the nexte leafe Where ye shall fynde this playne decree Neque praesul summus a quoquam iudicabitur No man shall iudge the pope whiche was also decreed in the tyme of the great Cōstantyne and pope Syluester yea before that tyme the lyke was sayd in a councel of Marcelline pope and Martyre as I haue otherwhere shewed Nowe then thowghe there was no cause whie Charles shoulde be greaued with this that the whole Clergie and people wel lyked and for the which there wer old aunciēt presidents yet to goe forth and to smothe this tale withal and to shewe why Charles should quietlie beare this grief which was sone born being none at al he addeth an other lie whereof we haue alredie somwhat spoken And that is because the Pope promised him longe before to make him Emperour Yea good M. Horn sone sayd of yowe but not so sone proued For neither your authour Platina sayth so nor any other that I haue hitherto read Phy on your wretched dealīg ād wretched cause that ye maintayne that cā not be vpholdē but with the defacing ād dishonorīg not only of the clergie but of this worthy ād as your self cal him this Noble Prīce Charles withal I would fayne procede to the next matter but that your other vntruthes must or I go be also discouered as that yow say without any prouf yea against good prouf to be layd to the cōtrary that this pope Leo for his streight dealings was hateful to the Romās which your authors Sabellicus and Platina say not but the quite contrary For Platina among his other manifold and notable vertues telleth that he was a man of myld nature so that he loued all men hated no man slowe to wrathe ready to take mercie and pitie of other And Sabellicus of this very matter sayeth thus Coniuratorum odium in Pontificem inde ortum ferunt quòd illi liberius viuere assueti ferre nequiuissent grauem Pontificis Censuram It is saied the hatred of such as cōspired against him spronge hereof that they accustomed to liue more licentiously coulde not abyde the Graue Rebukes and Censures of the pope Nowe further M. Horne being not able to denie but that aswell Carolus as all other gaue ouer for any iudgmēt they wold or could geue agaīst Leo he falleth to quarellīg with Leo for that for the which he owght to haue cōmēded him The matter standing thus and no mā stepping forth lawfully to proue any thing agaīst Leo this good man thowghe no man did or coulde force him to yt yet knowing his owne innocency toke an open othe vppon the holy ghospel that he was gyltlesse from suche matters as were obiected against him And here M. Horne beinge pleasantly disposed sayeth as owte of Platina Leo did earnestlye desire that kynde of iudgmente and addeth by his owne lying liberalyte that Platina mente that Leo was desirouse to geue sentence in his owne cause Wheras Platina meante that Leo was desirouse vppon the assured truste of his owne integritye that the matter might haue bene iudged and so worthie of commendation that he woulde submitte his cause to iudgemente where he neaded not as Symachus and Sixtus did before And so are Platina his wordes qui id iudicium maximè expetebat to be vnderstanded And perchaunce in some copies id is not sene Nauclerus which seameth here as in many other places to followe Platina and to reherse his wordes and whom M. Horne doth here also alleage saith qui iudicium maximè expetebat Whiche did moste ernestly desire to be iudged Whiche iudgement not proceedynge he did as muche as laye in him that is to purge him selfe by his othe Nowe where Sabellicus speaketh of this purgation in the commendation of Leo saying that a mans owne reporte much auayleth made in dewe ceason M. Horn addeth this his pretie glose for wante of good neyghbours Yet I pray yowe good M. Horne take not the matter so greuously against Pope Leo But remember that Leo being pope did more then a protestant Prelate whom ye knowe ful wel of late did being perchaunce more then a suspition that a wrong cocke had troden Cockerelles hen And yet the sayd prelat was not put to his purgation and much lesse him selfe offred to sweare for his owne honesty I medle not with the iustifying of the matter one way or other Some men say that strypes may cause yong striplinges to saye Tonge thoue lyest but not truelie to the eye Eie thowe lyest whiche can not lie in that whiche is hys obiecte But let this goe I saye yt for none other cause but onely that ye haue not M. Horne so greate cause to take the matter so hotte against Leo. And now to make vp this matter gentle reader of Leo this Leo also sendeth Saint Peters keyes yea
or schismatike should dare to gainsaie it And also to the end that the Princes them selues as deuout childreÌ„ shuld agree vpon him whom they sawe to be chosen for their Father that in all things they might aide and assist him As it was in the example of Valentinian th'Emperour and S. Ambrose I saith the Emperour wil be thy aide and defence as it becometh my degree And herevpon Pope Steuen of whom M. Horne talked euen now made a Decree that without the Emperours Legates were present no bishops alreadie chosen should be consecrated And by reason of this Decree the Bishops of Reatina coulde not be consecrated as M. Horne euen now alleaged But saith Gratian because the Emperours passing sometime their bondes would not be of the nuÌ„ber of coÌ„senters aÌ„d agreers to th'electioÌ„ but wuld be the first that shuld choose yea aÌ„d put out to ofteÌ„times also falling to be as false as heretiks assaied to breake the vnity of the Catholike Church their Mother therefore the decrees of the holie Fathers haue proceded against them that they should no more medle with the election of bisshops and that whosoeuer obtained any Church by their voice should be excommunicated And as Ezechias toke awaye the brasen serpent whiche Moyses did set vp because it was now abused so the constitutions of our forefathers are sometime chaunged by the Authoritie of the posteritie when such ConstitutioÌ„s mere positiue are abused Then Gratian bringeth in diuers other decrees against the ConfirmatioÌ„ of Emperours as of Gregorie the .4 pope of Lewys the firste Charles hys sonne Henrie the first and Otho the first Emperours who all gaue ouer by open decrees this priuilege graunted first of popes vpon good considerations and after repealed vpon as good by the same authoritie And thus you see M. Horne by your owne Authours and by good reason if ye haue grace to consider it you are sufficiently answered for confirmation of Popes and inuesturing of Bisshops a common matter in your booke and yet as you see nowe a matter of no weight in the world After this M. Horn is in hand with the raining of bloud three daies and with many other wonders of this time yea with the Deuil him selfe that bewrayed Priests Lemmans whiche they kept in corners secrete that now M. Horne and his fellowes are not ashamed to kepe openly and haue learned a furder lesson then Priestes of that age knew that a Frier and a Nunne may laufully wedde wherat the Deuill him selfe perchaunce doth as much wonder as Maister Horne here doth wonder at the Deuils straunge doings which yet are not so strange nor so much to be wondered at as perchance your great wisedom is to be woÌ„dred at to imagine that al these things chanced for that th'Emperour had not as he was wonte to haue the confirmation of the Popes election and the ordering of maters Ecclesiasticall M. Horne The .105 Diuision pag. 66. b. After Benedictus vvas Nicolas chosen vvhom the Emperour him selfe being present did confirme as vvitnesseth Nauclerus At the same time was the Emperour Lodouicus .2 at Rome who confirmed the Popes election The same also sayeth Martin to the vvhich Volateran addeth of the Emperour and the Pope De communi consilio ambo cuncta gerebant Alâ— thinges were done by common counsaile or consent of both the Emperour and the Pope And least it might be thought he meaneth not as vvel Ecclesiastical as Temporal matters Sabellicus maketh the matter more plaine affirming that the Emperour and the Pope had secrete conferâ—nce together many daies and had consultation both touching the matters perteining to Christian Religion and also of the state of Italye And a litle after talkinge of the Pope The Pope decreed by the consente of Lodouicus that from thence foorth no Prince no not the Emperour him selfe should be present in the councell with the Clergye onlesse it were when the principall pointes of faith were treated of Hitherto in all these Ecclesiasticall causes the Emperour hath the doinge as .348 vvell or more than the Pope But this last decree that by the allovvance of the Emperour the Pope made exempteth Temporall Princes from Ecclesiasticall matters in their councelles though in the most principall matters Ecclesiastical concerning faith it leaueth to them their .349 interestes Stapleton M Horne hym self to helpe our matters forwarde bringeth forth a decree made by the pope with th' Emperours consent that lay princes should not be present in CouÌ„cels onlesse it were when the principall pointes of religion be treated of at the which he wondreth as of a thing vnheard of And yet he did or mought haue found as much in the actes of the Councell of Chalcedo Yea he myght haue sene also that by the same decree as well the people as the prince might be present and as much interest had the one thereyn as the other For as the same Pope Nicolas sayed geuynge a reason why the prince may be present when matters of faith are debated Faith is common to all and perteineth as well to the layitie as to the Clergie yea to all Christen men without exception Yet all was not gone from them sayeth M. Horne for they had their interestes still he sayeth in the principall matters ecclesiasticall concerning faith But what intereste I praye you tell vs Was it to determine or define anye thyng or that all determinations were voyde and frustrate without theÌ„ Nay but only that they might be present eyther to keepe quiet and order or els as Constantin and Marcian protested ad confirmandam fidem to strenghthen their owne faith or last of all to execute the Sentence and determinations of bishops And so were theyr Ambassadours present in the late General Councel at TreÌ„t And the Emperour and Kinges were wished theÌ„ selues to be there M. Horne The .106 Diuision pag. 67. a. Martinus the secoÌ„d gat into the Papacie malis artibus by naughty meanes saith Platina aÌ„d as is noted in the margeÌ„t it vvas in this Popes time that first of all the creation of the Popes vvas made vvithout the Emperours authority But this Pope died so shortely as he came in naughtily After vvhoÌ„ AdriaÌ„ the third like vnto his predecessor the secoÌ„d of that name vvho by cuÌ„ning sleight practised to .350 defraude the Emperour of his authority espying oportunitie by reason that Charles the emperour as Sabellicus saith vvas farre of busied in the vvarres dothe promote this matter to be decreed by the Senate and the people and this he did immediatly after he vvas made Bishop aÌ„d persuadeth theÌ„ that they doo not hereafter vvayte for the Emperours approbatioÌ„ and coÌ„firmation in appointing their Bishop but that they should kepe to theÌ„selues their ovvn fredome The vvhich thing also Nicolaus the firste vvith others atteÌ„pted but coulde not bringe it to passe as Platina reporteth VVho also vvriteth that the Romaynes had coÌ„ceiued an hope of great liberty in the hauty courage of this Pope being
them he meaneth the high bisshops of Christ our God and Sauiour Thus agayne you see Maister Horne howe all the iudgement resteth in the bishops and howe the sentence of the See Apostolike preuayleth and howe buxomely to vse your owne worde and obediently the Emperour yeldeth thereunto not intermedling farder then to procure that all partes may be heard that tumulte may be auoided and that the Iudges for so were the bisshops called in this Actiō may quietly procede to Sētence and last of al that same Sētence may be put in executiō notwithstanding the indurat malice of obstinat heretikes In the .8 Action al the schismatical conuenticles of the Photians are condemned and the recordes thereof burned In that Action also diuers Image breakers came to the Synode and were reconciled That secte also was againe accursed In the last Action the Canons were reade at the Popes Legates commaundement to the number of .27 In the .22 Canon it is decreed that no secular Prince intermedle with the election or choyse of any Patriarche Metropolitane or Bisshop whatsoeuer which also is inserted by Gratian into the decrees Finally the Councel being ended Basilius the Emperour maketh a longe and a notable Oration to the Synod expressing the dewe zeale and dewty of an Emperour in al Synodes and Councels He auoucheth plainly that to secular and laye men Non est datum secundùm Canonem dicendi quicquam penitus de Ecclesiasticis causis opus enim hoc pontificum sacerdotum est It is not graunted by the Rule of the Churche to speake any thinge at al in Councel of Ecclesiasticall matters For this is the worke saith he of Bishops and Priestes And after commēding the bishops for their greate paynes and trauaile in that Councell he speaketh to the laye Nobylyte then present thus De vobis autem Laicis c. But as touching you that are of the lay sorte as wel you that beare offices as that be priuate men I haue no more to say vnto you but that it is not lawfull for you by any meanes to moue talke of Ecclesiasticall matters neither to resiste in any point against the integrity of the Churche or to gaynesaie the vniuersal Synode For to searche and seke out these matters it belongeth to Bisshops and Priests which beare the office of gouernours which haue the power to sanctifie to binde and to loose which haue obtayned the keyes of the Churche and of heauen It belongeth not to vs which ought to be fedde which haue nede to be sanctified to be boūde and to be loosed from bande For of whatsoeuer Religion or wisedome the laye man be yea though he be indewed with all internal vertues as longe as he is a lay man he shal not cease to be called a shepe Againe a bisshop howesoeuer vnreuerent he be and naked of all vertue as longe as he is a bishop and preacheth dewlye the woorde of Truthe he suffereth not the losse of his pastorall vocation and dignitye What then haue we to doe standinge yet in the roome of shepe The Shepheardes haue the power to discusse the subtiltye of woordes and to seke and compasse such thinges as are aboue vs. We must therefore in feare and sincere faith harken vnto them and reuerence their countenances as being the Ministres of Almightye God and bearinge his fourme and not to seke any more then that which belongeth to our degree and vocation Thus farre the Emperour Basilius in the ende and Conclusion of the eight generall Councell and much more in this sense which were here to longe to inserte I blame you not nowe Maister Horne that you so ouerhipped this whole Generall Councell and the doinges of those .ij. Popes Nicolaus and Adrian .2 You sawe perhaps or had hearde say that it made clerely against you And yet as I sayed before apparently you might haue culled out broken narrations for your purpose as well out of this Generall Councell as out of the other .7 But seing you tooke such paynes to note themperors demeanour in the former .7 I thought it a poynte of courtesye Maister Horne to requytte you againe with this one generall Councell for so manye by you alleaged to your verye small purpose as euery indifferent Reader seeth Whether this be not to our purpose I dare make your selfe Iudge And nowe I wonder what shifte you will make to auoyde the Authoritye of this generall Councell or of this Emperour Basilius Well You maye at your good leasure thinke and deuise vppon it I wil nowe returne to your text You saye Martinus the seconde whome other more trulye call Marinus gat into the Papacy by naughtye meanes What maketh that to proue your Supremacye in the laye Magistrat It is noted you saie in the margent of Platina that it was in this Popes tyme that first of all the creation of the Popes was made without the Emperours authoritye You shoulde haue tolde vs withall in what printe of Platina that note is founde I haue sene Platina both of the Collen printe and of the Venyce print sette forthe with the Notes of Onuphrius and yet I finde no suche Note in the margent It is by like the Note of some your brotherhood in some copie printed at Basill And then is it of as good Authoritye as Maister Hornes owne booke is which is God wote but course Whose so euers note it be a false note it is For as of a hundred and ten Bisshoppes of Rome before this Marinus scarse the fourthe parte of them was confirmed of the Emperours so the Emperours before this tyme neuer created Popes but onelye consented to the creation or election made by the clergye and confirmed the same for quyet sake and for the preseruation of vnyty as I haue before shewed Adrians decree that the people of Rome shoulde wayte no more for the Emperours confirmation was no defraudinge of themperours right as you vntrulye reporte but a renewing of the olde liberties and priuileges dewe to the Churche by the order of Canons and Councels and the whiche neuer came to the Emperours but by the Popes owne grauntes and decrees namelye of Adrian the first and Leo .3 as hath before appeared and therefore by them agayne reuocable without iniurye done to the Prince when the weale of the Churche so requyred As it was at this tyme the Frenche Emperours busyed with warres against the Sarracens and not so carefull of the Ecclesiasticall peace vppon respect whereof that Cōfirmation of the Pope was graunted them as were theyr predecessours Which negligence so encreased that in fewe yeares after as we shall anon see they not only lefte of the protection of the See Apostolike but loste also the Empire it being transferred to the Germains in Otho the first whome also some Germayne writers namelye Cusanus do accompte for the first Emperour of the Weste after the decaye and breache of the East Empire M. Horne The .107 Diuision Fol. 67. b. The next
to the Kinges .413 iudgement and Thomas by the Kinges commaundement was faine to come to Lanfrank to be sacred And aftervvard vvhen there grevve greater contention betvvixt these tvvayne about Churche matters the Bisshop of Rome remitted the matter to be determined before the Kinge and the Bisshops of Englande and so at VVindesour before Kinge VVilliam and the Cleargy the cause was treated Also an other cause vvas moued before the King of the misorder of Thurstan whome the King had made Abbot of Glastonbury by whose iudgement the Abbot was chaunged and tourned to his owne Abbay in Normandye but the Monkes .414 scattered aboute by the Kings hest After this the King bestowed many Bisshoprikes on his Chaplaines as London Norvviche Chester Couentry c. And ruled both temporalty and the spiritualty at his owne wil saithe Polychronicon He tooke noman fro the Pope in his lād he meaneth that the Kinge vvoulde suffer no Legate to enter into the lande from the Pope but he came and pleased him he suffred no Coūcel made in his own coūtrey without his own leaue Also he woulde nothing suffer in such a councel but as he woulde assent So .415 that in geuing or translating of spiritual promocions in geuing his assent to Councels and suffring nothing to passe vvithout his consent in hearing and determining Ecclesiasticall causes in restreining the Popes liberty vvithout his speciall licence and in ruling the spiritualty at his ovvn vvil King VVilliā shevveth plain that he .416 tooke him self for the supreame gouernour vvithin this Realm in al maner of causes so vvel Ecclesiastical as Temporall The .19 Chapter Of England before the Conqueste Of William the Conquerour Rufus his Sonne and Henry the first Kinges of Englande Stapleton GOod readers I do most hartely beseche you euen as ye tender either the truth or the saluation of your sowles to haue a good and a speciall regarde to M. Hornes narration nowe following For now at the length is M. Horn come frō his long and vnfruitfull wandering in Spaine Fraunce Italie Germany and other countries to our own natiue contrey Now where as the late doings in our Countre are suche as we haue sequestred our selues frō the common and vsuall obedience that all other contries concerning authority in matters ecclesiasticall euer gaue with a singular and peerlesse preeminence to the see of Rome and do yet sequester the more pittie our selues daylie more and more makinge none accompte of other good princes doings and presidents in this behalf and pretending partly in the acts of parliament partly in the newe englishe bokes and daylie sermons that this is no newe or straunge example in England to exclude the Pope from all maner spiritual iurisdiction to be exercised and practised there by hym yt behoued our protestants especiallie M. Horne in thys his boke that what so euer his proufes were for other countries yet for some conuenient prouf of the olde practise concerning his newe primacie in Englande to haue wrowght his matters so substancially that at least wise for our owne Countre he shulde haue browght forth good aūcient and autentique matter And wil ye nowe see the wise and euen dealinge of these protestant prelats Where they pynne vp all our proufes wythin vj. hundred yeares after Christ and what so euer we bring after theyr Iewell telleth vs ful merelie we come to late M. Horne in this matter of Supreamacie most weightie to the poore catholiks the deniyng thereof being more greauously punished by lawes then anie other matter nowe lying in controuersie betwene the catholyks and protestantes in Englande M. Horne I say for thys his owne country which as approued Chroniclers reporte and as him self after alleageth did first of al the Romā prouinces publiquely embrace Christes relligion for one thousand yeares standeth mute And belike thinking that William Conquerour had conquered aswell all the olde catholyke fayth in Englande as the Lande and people fansieth a duble conqueste one vppon the goods and bodies the other vppon the sowles and faythe of the Englishe men But what shall I nowe say to this noble and worthie Champion shall I dryue hym a litle backe with M. Iewels peremptory challenge and tel him that he commeth to late by almoste fyue hundred yeares Or shall I deale more freely and liberally with him then M. Iewell doth whith vs and bydde hym take the beste helpe he can for hym self Verely M. Horne had nede I did so And yet all will be to lytle for his purpose aswell for that after the conquest he hath no sufficient prouf for his pretensed supremacy as for that what prouf so euer he bringeth yt must yelde and geue place to the first thousand yeares whiche beare ful testimonie for the Popes primacie laufully practised in our realme before the conquest It were now a matter for to fyll a large volume withal to runne a longe by these thowsand yeares and to shewe what prouf we haue for the popes primacy before the conquest My answere woulde waxe to bigge and to prolixe yf I shoulde so doe But I will onelie putte the good reader in remembraunce of a matter or two I muste therefore pluck M. Horne backe from Williams conquest and desire him to remember an other and a better and more aunciente conqueste with al in Britannie then Williams was yea aboute ix hundred yeares before when this Ilelande of Britanie was firste delyuered from the tyrannicall yoke and miserable bondage of dyuelish idolatrie But by whom M. Horne Suerlie by pope Eleutherius to whome kinge Lucius sente letters desiringe hym that by his commaundement he mighte be christened Fugatius and Damià nus whose holy reliques are thought to be now in Wales and whose holy remembraunce churches there dedicated to God in their name doe to this day kepe and preserue as it were fresh and immortall sent to England by the sayed Eleutherius did most godly and wonderfully worke thys great conqueste If I should nowe aske M. Horne what Lucius meant to send so farre for instructours and teachers of the Christian fayth namely Fraunce beyng at hande where about thys tyme the Christian Churches were adorned wyth many learned Bishoppes and Martyrs though he woulde perchaunce seeke manie a pretye shyfte to shyfte awaye thys demaunde yet should he neuer make any good and sufficiente aunsweare vntyll he confessed the Popes primacye to be the verie cause to send so farre of The which the blessed Martyr of God and great learned Bishoppe of Lyons in Fraunce Ireneus writyng in the tyme of our firste Apostle Eleutherius doth confesse writyng That all Churches muste agree wyth the Churche of Rome for that the sayed Churche hath the greater principalitie and for that the traditions of the Apostles haue euer bene kept there In case nowe the pope had nothing to doe in matters ecclesiasticall within this Ileland in the tyme of the olde Britaines why did pope Celestinus appoint
to the Scottes theyr firste Bishop Palladius as Prosper writeth a notable Chronicler of that age Why dyd he also send into thys Ileland S. Germaine Bishoppe of Antisiodorum to bryng by the Apostolicall Authoritie the Britaynes from the heresye of the Pelagians as the sayed Prosper witnesseth Lett vs nowe come to the tyme of the Saxons conuerted by S. Augustine And then shall we fynd so manie and so full testimonies both of the popes primacie and of the princes subiection as I trowe M. Horne him selfe as impudent as he is can not nor will not denie them Which I do ouerpasse by reason they are readely to be foūd in our worthy coūtriemā S. Bede lately set forth by me in the English tongue and in the Fortresse also adioyned to the same storie I will nowe adde this only that from the time wherin Beda endeth his storie to the conquest of the foresaied William there appeareth in our domesticall stories a perpetuall and continuall practise of the saied primacie in this realme by the popes as well in those bookes as be extant in printe as in other As in Asserius Meneuens that continueth the storie from the death of Bede to the yeare of our Lorde 914. in Henricus Huntingtoniensis Gulielmus Malmesburiensis Alphredus Beuerlacensis Rogerus Houedenus Florilegiū siue Mattheus Westmonasteriensis Chronica Iohānis Londoniensis and many other yet not printed that I haue not sene and which are hard to be sene by reason of the greate spoyle of such kind of bookes of late made in the suppressing of monasteries and colleges The which suppression and it were for nothing else but for the losse of so many worthy Chroniclers can not be to much lamented the losse being incomparably greater then the losse of any princes treasure The case is nowe to be pityed for that the verie Librarie of the Vniuersitie of Oxforde hath felt the rage of this spiteful spoile not so much as one booke at this howre there remaining This is one of the worthy fruits of your new ghospel M. Horne As appereth also by the late vprores in these low Coūtries wher by the Gueses not onely the Monasteries but the Libraries also namelye of the grey friers in Antwerpe be most shamefully defaced the bookes burnt to ashes and the olde monuments destroyed The naming of Oxforde bringeth to my remembrance the noble and worthy foūder of the vniuersity there I meane Kinge Alurede In whose tyme there was at Rome a special schole or colledge for English mē priuileged ād exēpted frō al taxe ād tollages by pope Martin the .2 at the desire of this King Who sent to him for a gift a peece of the holy crosse This King beīg learned hīself loued entierly learned mē especially Ioānes Scotus that trāslated out of the Greeke tōg the works of Dionysius Areopagita whoō he vsed moste familiarly This Alurede being but yet yong was sent by the Kinge Edeluulphus his father to Rome accompanied with many noble men where pope Leo the .4 did confirme him and toke him as his sonne by adoption and did also annoynte and consecrate him King of Englande The manifolde practise of the said primacy continued from this Kings tyme euen to the tyme and in the tyme of blessed S. Edward the immediate predecessour of William sauing Harolde who reigned not one full yeare In the twenty yeare of the said King Edwarde the blessed man Wulstanus that was before a monk and prior there was consecrated bisshop of Worceter A man of suche notable vertue and such austerity of lyfe as he resembled the olde vertuouse and renowned religiouse men As one that among all other his notable qualities continued so in praying studiyng and fasting that somtymes in foure dayes and foure nights he neuer slepte and that litle reste which he toke was vpon a foorme in the Churche vsing none other bolsterre but his booke wherin he prayed or studied This man I saye was made bisshop and confirmed by the popes Legats being then in the realm before the Cōqueste Our authour doth not write this of vncertain heresay but of certain knowledge as a mā of that age and one that as it semeth had sene this blessed man ād talked with him To discourse vpon other particularities as vpon the continual appeale to Rome vpon willes charteres and such other writings sent from Rome to auoide tediousnes I doe purposely forbeare But I will nowe notifie to the good reader two thīgs only First that from the tyme of the good Kinge Offa in the yere of our Lord .760 who gaue after the example of Inas not long before him to the Pope as to the Vicare of S. Peter the Peter pence euen to the cōquest the payment of the said Peter pence hath continued and they were frō tyme to tyme leuied the Kings taking good diligent order for the sure paymente of the same Secondly that from the tyme of S. Augustine the first Archebisshop among the Saxons both he and al other Archebishops euen to the conquest receaued their palle from Rome an infallible token of their subiectiō to the Pope as Peters successour vpon whose holy tombe the palle is first layed ād after taken of and sente to the Archebisshop As these two tokens of subiection cōtinued frō tyme to time to the conqueste so they continewed also without any interruption onlesse it were verie seldome and for a litle space by reason of some priuate controuersie betwixte the Pope and the Kinge euen from thence to our freshe memorie beside many notable things otherwise in this realme since the conquest continually practised that serue for the declaration and confirmation of the said primacy Perchaunce M. Horne wil say to me Sir though I specifie nothing before the conquest to iustifie the princes supremacy yet in the margent of my booke I doe remitte the reader to a booke made in King Henry the .8 days Wherein he may see what doinges the Kings of England had in this realme before the conquest for matters Ecclesiastical A prety and a clerklie remission in dede to sende your reader for one thowsande of yeares together in the which ye shoulde haue laide out before hī your best and principal proufs to seke out a book he wotteth not where and which whē it is at lēgth foūd shal proue your matter no more substātially then ye haue done hitherto your selfe And therefore because ye worke by signes and profers only and marginal notes I wil remitte both you and my reader to a marginal note also for your and his ful aunswere Nowe then lette vs goe forwarde in Gods name and see whether Kinge William conquered bothe the lande and the Catholike faithe all at ones Lette vs consider yf this Kinge and the realme did not then acknowledge the Popes Supremacy as much and as reuerently as any Christian prince doth now liuīg I say nothing of the othe he toke the day of his coronation
his Apostles had nothing in coÌ„mon or in priuat which was the heresie of those that are called Fratricelli or Pauperes de Lugduno most chieflie of al men set forth by a Frier called Michaël de Cesena and our Countriman Frier Ockam aÌ„d Marsilius Patauinus and by this your Emperour Lewes of Bauarie and by Petrus de Corbario the Antipope that ye say was placed in pope Iohns roome who keping a Conuenticle in Italie condemned pope Iohn for an Heretique as your Author Marius declareth So that this faction in this wise on euerie side banded grew to a very great schisme And many so fondly and obstinately dwelt in this opininion that they died as obstinately and wretchedly for it And yet these men as I haue saied are not onely holy brethren but holye Martyrs too with Maister Foxe And nowe good Maister Horne tell vs your iudgement in the matter Is it Heresie or is it no heresie to defende this opinion obstinatlie If ye say it is heresie â–ª then doe ye confesse your newe Heade of the Church with his newe Idole and Antipope an Heretique and doe shew your selfe a greate slaunderouse lyer against pope Iohn and a very fonde madde man thus to fight against your selfe and your owne cause If ye doe stoutelie denie this to be heresie as yee seeme by the order of your declaration to denie it as well as the rest then shewe you your selfe no simple Schismatique nor simple Heretique and so ye are at the least messhed here in foure heresies To set some fast footing in the discussioÌ„ of these matters and seriouslye to weigh and examine euery thing woulde aske some larger talke theÌ„ we may now vnlesse we would be to to tediouse to our reader wel spare But yet for the two principal matters seing you make so light of Pope Iohn and the Churches Authoritie I will conuince you and sufficientlye to I hope and by suche a witnesse as your owne Emperour of all other men in the worlde did most esteme and reuerence yea and kissed his fote to PerchauÌ„ce Maister Horne ye longe to heare of this man Truelye he is none other but your Emperours dearling and idole the Antipope I meane Petrus de Corbario Who at leÌ„gth called no doubt thereto by the speciall grace of God better aduising him selfe of his doings and weighing them better with him selfe after mature and seriouse discussing of them in fyne founde him selfe no Pope but a miserable and a wretched intruder in the sea of S. Peter and a damnable disturber of the peace and vnitye of Christes Churche and to say all at ones a greauouse schismatike and an heynouse heretike Wherefore fynding the worme of conscience bytinge and gnawing his harte he fell to greate sorowe and lamentation and forthwith being then at a citie in Italy called Pisa before the Archebisshoppe of the said citye and the Bisshoppe of Luke and manye other honorable persons aswell of the clergy as of the laity voluntarilie and willinglye shewed howe penitente he was for his greauouse enormities and before them and certayne notaries for a full testimonie of his true repentance gaue ouer his vsurped primacie and plainely confessed that he hadde bene a schismatike and an heretike and he did put him selfe into the handes and mercie of the right Pope Iohn the .22 And wrote vnto him resident then at Auinion in Fraunce his moste humble submission in the which he declareth that as him selfe was but an vsurper of the Apostolique â–ª See So your Lewys of Bauarie was no lawfull Emperour but an vsurper He declareth further that both he and the said Lewes mainteyned diuers heresies and namely two of these that ye here specify concerning the pouertie of Christ and the making and the deposinge of the Pope The which he doth by speciall woordes freelie and voluntarilie forsake renounce and abiure And promiseth that he woulde euer after belieue as the sayde Iohn and the holie Churche of Rome belieued Wil ye nowe see good Reader the wonderfull workinge of God that hath brought to Maister Horne his owne Pope to condemne him and his newe Heade of the Churche Lewys for Arrante heretikes Yea to make a shorte aunswere to all Maister Hornes booke and to call yt heresie that Maister Horne doth so stowtlie defende in saying that the Emperour shoulde be aboue the Pope and to haue authority to make or depose the Pope And thus ye heare Maister Horne that contrary to your saying Pope Iohn neither was deposed nor coulde be deposed by your Emperour I meruayle nowe seing that it is a true and sownde doctrine by your newe heades teachinge that Christe and the Apostles hadde nothinge of theire own that your and your fellowes consciences who pretende that ye woulde haue the Churche that nowe is reformed to the paterne of the primityue and Apostolicall Churche are so large that ye are nothing pinched at coÌ„science in keping your godly and great possessions The .30 Chapter Of Gods Iudgement vpon such Emperours as seme most to haue practised M. Horns Primacy Stapleton BVT nowe M. Horne sith we are come by course of tymes and ages to the last Emperour that notoriously rebelled against the Apostolike See of Rome for since this Lewys the .4 they haue al ben obedient ChildreÌ„ to that See especially in al causes spiritual or Ecclesiasticall eueÌ„ to the right Catholike Emperour Maximilian that now reigneth I wil put you brefely in minde to what ends al these disobedient Emperours came Trusting that this consideration of Gods iudgement shal be neither to you bearing your self for a bishop in Gods Church vnpleasant neither for me my vocation considered vnmete neither to the Christian Reader vnfruteful To be short therfore CoÌ„staÌ„â—ius the ArriaÌ„ Emperor which banished Pope Liberius aÌ„d plaied in dede the part of your supreme gouernour died obscurely and miserably whiles he persecuted Iulyan his own Cousen Valens an other ArriaÌ„ Emperor and playing Rex ouer al Catholik Bishops in the East being ouercome in field of the Gothes was burned to ashes in a poore cotage with diuers of his nobles about him which â–ª was neuer read of any Christian Emperour sence or before Valentinian the yonger who called his bisshop S. Ambrose to appeare before his consistory and there to answer in matters of faith his end was to be kylled of his own seruants and shamefully hanged Anastasius the Eutychian Emperour and excommunicated of Pope Gelasius was stroken to deathe with fyre from heauen and Mauritius an vnmerciful persecuter of blessed Pope Gregory and a busy Prince ouer his Bishops seing first his wife and children murdred before his face was murdered at last him selfe of a base Souldiare Phocas Constans nephewe to Heraclius banished the most holy Pope Martinus but seing him selfe for that and such like wicked dedes saith Zonaras hatefull to his subiectes he left Constantinople and liued in Sicilia where at a bathing he was slayne Michael sonne to Theophilus
Wherfore yf your authour had thus writen neither his tyme is so auncient nor his authoritie so great but that a man might haue sayde that he was wonderfully deceyued But it is not he but you that with your false sleight and craftie cōueiance deceyue your readers Your authour speaketh not of two councells the one summoned by the pope the other by the king but speaketh of bishops that held by fealty and homage lands of the king And then sayth that quoad feuda regalia concernīg theis fealties and royalties the king is aboue the bisshops as he is aboue all his other vassals And therfore if the pope on the one side send for a bisshoppe and the kinge on the other side send for him concerning his fealty and homage matters he ought to goe to the king otherwise he shoulde rather obey the pope thē the king as appereth sayth Quintine in the glose to the which he referreth hym self Theis wordes feuda and regalia haue ye sliely slipt ouer as though Quintinus had auouched the bishops subiectiō in Ecclesiastical matters You could not otherwise haue decked your margent with your gay and freshe lying note that the king is to be obeyed in Ecclesiastical causes and not the Pope And so are ye now sodainly become so spiritual and so good an ecclesiastical man that feuda and regalia are become matters ecclesiastical Which is as true as ye may be rightfully called an ecclesiastical man hauing a Madge of your owne to kepe your back warme in the cold winter nightes and by as good reason ye may cal her an ecclesiastical woman to M. Horn. The .149 Diuision pag. 88. a. The people doth amende or reforme the negligence of the Pastour Can. vlt. dist 65. Ergo the Prince also may do the same If the Bisshop wil not or doe forslovve to heare and to decide the controuersies of his Cleargy the Bisshop being slowe or tarying ouer longe nothing dooth hinder or stay saith the Canon to aske Episcopale Iudicium the bisshoply iudgement of the Emperour If it happen that the Priests be not diligent about the Aultar offices if concerning the temple neglecting the Sacrifices they hasten into kings palayces ▪ runne to wrastlinge places doe prophane them selues in brothelles houses and yf they conuert that which the faithful haue offred to the pleasures of them selues and of theirs wherefore shal not the Princes whome the Catholique Faith hath begotten and taught in the bosome of the Church cal againe and take vpon thē selues the care of this matter and so proueth at large by many examples out of the Histories and the Lavves that this care and charge in Ecclesiasticall .487 matters and causes belongeth to the Princes vnto the vvhich examples he addeth this In our Fathers tyme saith he Kinge Lewes .11 made a constitution that Archebisshoppes Bisshops Abbottes and who so euer hadde dignities in the Church or had the cure of other benefices should within fiue monethes resorte to their Churches and should not remoue any more frō thēse diligently there labouring in diuine matters and sacrifices for the faulfty of the king and his kingdome and that vnder a great paine of losing all their goods and lands Here Quintinus doth greuously complain of the dissolute and moste corrupt maners of the Cleargy vvhereto he addeth saying VVherefore than should not Princes cōpell this Iewde idle kinde of men to do their dueties Stapleton May the people M. Horne amende and reforme the negligence of the pastour And that by the Popes Lawe to Then belyke the headlesse people of Germany and your headlesse bretherne that of late haue made such ruffle in these lowe countres here shal finde some good defence for their doings to saue the reast from the gybet or from the sacke which haue not yet passed that way Then may yt seme a smal matter that the laye people haue by a late Acte of parliamente transformed and altered the olde relligion against the minde of all the Bisshops and the whole conuocation But your authour saieth Ecclesiae nihil est licentius Democratia There is in the worlde nothing more perniciouse to the Church of God then is such vnbrideled libertie of the people which must be taught and not followed as he alleageth out of Pope Celestin ād that but two distinctiōs before that distinction which your self alleage And what great reformation is it M. Horn that your distinction speaketh of Suerly none other but that yf it chaunce all the bisshops of one contrie to die sauing one and yf he be negligent in procuring the electiō and substitutiō of some other in their places that the people may goe to the bisshops of the contrey next adioyning and cause them to ordeine some new bisshops We are also content that yf the bisshops or others be negligent the prince may compell them to doe their dewty But then loke wel to your self For who is more negligent about the Aultars and worthy to be punished therfore thē they that throwe downe Aultars Who neglect the sacrifices but yow that deny the sacrifice and the presence of Christ in the Sacramēt Who be those but you and your fellowes that cōuerte to the pleasures of thē selues and theires that which the faithful hath offred to Christ in laying out the Church goods vpō your self which should haue no parte to thē being become by your mariage a laye man and in the mainteyninge ād purchasing for your vnlawful wyues childrē Now who be they that prophane thē selues in brothel howses let the old constitutions of the Churche tel vs. A man would litle think that ye would euer haue pleaded so agaīst your own self But what can you bring I would fayne know that is not against you in so badde a cause M. Horne The .150 Diuision pag. 88. b. If you delight in antiquites saith he no man doth doubt but that in the primatiue Church the Princes did iudge both of the Ecclesiasticall persones and causes and did oftentimes make good Lawes for the trueth against falsehood Arcadius ād Honorius religious Princes doe .488 depose a troublesome Bisshop both from his Bishoprik sea and name The .13 first titles of the first booke of Iustiniās Code collected out of the Cōstitutiōs of diuers Emperours doe plainly intreate and iudge of those things which appertain to the Bishoply cure For what perteineth more to the office of a Bishop than Faith thē Baptism then the high Trinity than the conuersation of Mōkes the ordeining of Clergymen and Bishops and than many like lawes which doubtles doe concerne our Religiō ād Church But the Nouel Constitutions of themperour Iustinian are full of such Lavves And least peraduenture some man might suspect that this vvas tyranny or the oppression of the Churche Iohn the Pope doth salute this Emperor the most Clemēt Son learned in the Ecclesiastical disciplines and the most Christiā amōgest Princes Epist. inter claras De summa Trin. C.
thanking God that had sent home his MarchaÌ„dize so sauflie and so prosperouslie For the poore man such was his wisedome being owner of no part thought al to be his I say it fareth euen so with you M. Horne Of al the good Emperours Kings Fathers and Councelles by you rehearsed crie you as much and as long as ye will that they are al yours yet there is not so much as one yours Ye haue not brought so muche as one authority directly or indirectly coÌ„cluding your purpose Els shew me but one of al the foresaid Authors that saieth that the Pope hath no authoritie either in England or in other countries out of Italie Shew me one that saith either plain words or in equiualent that the Prince is Supreme head in al causes ecclesiasticall Yea shewe me one that auoucheth the Prince to be the Supreme gouernour in any one cause mere ecclesiastical And thinke you now in the folding vp of your conclusion to perswade your Readers that yee haue them all on your side Or blush you not to vaunte that you haue proued your assertion euen by those that your selfe coÌ„fesse were wholy addicted and mancipated to the Pope And what can more euidently descrie and betraie your exceeding follie and passing impudencie then dothe this moste strange and monstrous Paradoxe But who woulde haue thought that of all men in the worlde your Rhethorique would serue you to bring in the most Reuerend Fathers in God by you named as good motiues to perswade M. Fekenham to take this othe which for the refusing of the very same othe were thrust out of their Bishopricks and cast into prison where yet they remaine suche as yet liue This point of rhetorical perswasion neither Demosthenes nor Cicero I trow could euer attaine vnto Seing then all your Rhetorike consisteth in lying and your triumphant conclusioÌ„ is folded vp with a browne dosen of seueral vntruthes allowing you thirteen to the dosen I wil assay M. Horne with more truthe and simplicitie brefely to vnfolde for the Readers better remembraunce and for your comfort the contentes of these three bookes wherin you haue plaied the OpponeÌ„t and haue laied forth the best euideÌ„ces that you could for proufe of your strauÌ„ge and vnheard paradoxe of Princes Supreme GouernmeÌ„t in al ecclesiastical causes I haue therfore not only disproued your proufes al along froÌ„ the first to the laste but I haue also proued the contrary that to priestes not to princes appertaineth the chiefe gouernemeÌ„t in causes Ecclesiastical In the first boke your scripture of the Deuteronom coÌ„mauÌ„deth the king to take of the priests not only the boke of the lawe but also the exposition thereof To your examples of Moyses of Iosue of Dauid of SalomoÌ„ of Iosaphat of Ezechias and of Iosias I haue so answered that it hath euideÌ„tly appeared the Supreme gouernement in spiritual matters to haue rested in the highe Bishops Priestes and Prophetes not in them Moyses only excepted who was a Priest also not only a Prince of the people Your idle obiections out of S. Augustin and of the Donatistes examples haue nothing relieued you but only haue bene occasioÌ„ to make opeÌ„ your extreme folly and to reuele your cousinage with olde heretikes to al the worlde Your Emanuel hath vtterly shamed you and your disorderly talke of CoÌ„stantin hath nothing furdered you Your textes of the newe TestameÌ„t haue bene to to fondly and foolishly alleged to set vp that kinde of gouernemeÌ„t which Christ and the Apostles neuer spake word of Last of all wheras you blindely vttered the state of the Question as one that loued darkenes and shuÌ„ned the light where only Truthe is to be founde I haue opened the same more particularly and discouered withal your double Vntruth aboute the tenour of the Othe Thus muche in the firste booke beside many priuat matters betwene M. Feckenham and you wherein you haue bene taken in manifest forgeryes lyes â–ª and slaunders Besides also a Note of your brethernes obedieÌ„ce to their Supreme Gouernours as well in other Countres â–ª as in these lowe CouÌ„tres here and of their late good rule kept of which I suppose bothe you and your cause shall take small reliefe and lesse honesty In the second booke I haue not only disproued all your pretensed proufes of Princes supreme gouerment in al causes ecclesiasticall but I haue in them all directly proued the popes primacy withall I haue I say shewed the practise of the former .600 yeres namely from Constantin the great downe to Phocas to stande clerely for the popes primacy I haue shewed that Constantin in all his dealinges in the Nicene Councâ—ll against the Donatistes in the matter of Athanasius with the Arrian bishoppes and with Arrius him selfe neuer practised this Supreme Gouuernement which you so fondly vpholde but in al matters Ecclesiasticall yelded the gouuernement thereof vnto Bisshops I haue shewed that the Sonnes of Constantin the greate practised no Supreme gouernement at al in any ecclesiastical cause much lesse in al causes Your next example Valentinian the elder is so farre froÌ„ al gouernement of the lay prince in Ecclesiasticall causes that he decreed the plaine contrary yea and made it lawful in ciuill matters to appeale to the bishoply Iudgement Theodosiê° the great hath bene proued to be no fitte example of your lay supremacy in causes ecclesiastical But in his exaÌ„ple the Popes Primacy is clerly proued namely by a RecoÌ„ciliation made of Flauianus the intruded patriarche of Antioche to pope Damasus aÌ„d also by the letters of the General Councell holden at CoÌ„stantinople vnder this Theodosius In that place also I haue shewed by ten seueral articles what and howe farre Emperours may and haue dealed in General Councelles In the examples of Archadius and Honorius sonnes to this Theodosius as their preteÌ„ded Primacy is proued to be none so the primacy of Innocentius theÌ„ pope is clerly proued as one that for the iniust depositioÌ„ of Iohn Chrisostom excoÌ„municated themperor Archadius the vpholder therof Also of Damasus then pope by the suyte of S. Hierom made vnto him In the example of Theodosius the secoÌ„d and the practise of the Ephesine CouÌ„cel the third General M. Hornes purpose is ouerthroweÌ„ and the popes primacy is by clere practise testified as well by the saied Councâ—ll as also by M. Horns owne Authours Liberatus and Cyrillus The doinges in the cause of Eutyches brought forth by M. Horne to proue the princes Supreme gouernment in al Ecclesiasticall causes do proue clerely the popes primacy euen in the very Author and chapter by maister Horne alleaged Pope Leo strayned by M. Horn to speake somewhat for the Princes Supremacy in matters Ecclesiastical hath spoken and done so much to proue the primacy of the See of Rome that if M. Horn wil stand to his owne Author he is vtterly confounded and forced to agnise the popes primacy without all maner of doubte By the example also
a Scripturely visitacion reformation and correction by the onely vvorde of God vvhich the Bishoppes may and ought to exercise in time and out of time vvith all possible vvatchefulnes and diligence vvithout any further commission The other kinde of visitation reformation and correction is Forinsecall or courtly vvhiche I comprehende vnder the seconde kinde of Cohibitiue Iurisdiction and this the Bishoppe may not exercise vvithout a further commission from the Prince VVerefore it is ouer foule an absurdity in you to inferre that the Bisshops may not exercise any IurisdictioÌ„ visitacioÌ„ reformatioÌ„ or correctioÌ„ bicause they may not vse this Forinsecal or courtly vvithout the Princes commission Stapleton M. Horne after that he hath bene so bolde with Delphinus to frame his argumentes and wreste then at his owne pleasure he is as bold with M. Fekenhams arguments also M. Feckenham argueth thus Spiritual gouernment is geueÌ„ to Bishops by Gods speciall worde namely to loose and bynde to shutte vppe heauen gates and to geue the holie ghoste Ergo the Prince is not the supreame gouernour in all causes spiritual according to the wordes of the statute Ergo all maner spirituall iurisdictioÌ„ is not to be authorised of the Prince as the Acte expressely and most generallie auoucheth Ergo yt is not true that they may not visite or reforme theire flocke withowt the Princes commission This argumentes being good and sownd M. Horne leapeth me in and saieth that M. Fekenham toke vppon him to proue the second kind of cohibitiue iurisdiction to be by the expresse worde of God immediatly appointed to bishoppes and priestes without further commission of Princes And this argument he doth more soleÌ„ly repete againe in the .2 leafe following and goeth about to soile yt being his own and not M. FekenhaÌ„s argument For thinke you M. Horne that M. Fekenham hath or will allowe your first and seconde cohibitiue iurisdiction His examples are of the power of order or of the keies and of that that you cal the first Cohibitiue iurisdiction Why then do you so falsly charge him leauing out the first two and the verie principall partes Let vs nowe heare what ye say further to him You accuse his euill dealing with the words of the acte expressiÌ„g an vnkindly meaning to the prince and the state Yea say that thoughe the statute doth geue or rather restore to the Prince all maner of iurisdictions or preheminences towching any Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction yet the wordes must not be taken so generallie but must be referred and limited to and with other wordes of the sayde statute that is for the visitation reformation and correction of the ecclesiasticall state and of all maner of errours and heresies By the which wordes of limitation the Prince as you inferre of it is as well restrained from doing any thing in the publike ministerie by preaching or ministring Sacraments as from that iurisdiction that standeth in excommunication and hath onelie thereby the second kinde of cohibitiue Iurisdiction Surelie here is a marueilouse and a woÌ„derfull interpretatioÌ„ M. Horne vrgeth M. FekenhaÌ„ to swere that he beleueth in conscience that the Prince is Supreme Gouernour in all causes Ecclesiastical He addeth as ye haue heard that those wordes must be takeÌ„ without limitatioÌ„ or exceptioÌ„ and yet him selfe excepteth the chief things or causes ecclesiastical Wherby a man may much better coÌ„clude and swere to the coÌ„trary that is that the Prince is not Supreme Gouernour in al Spiritual causes Surelie to imagine and to defende the Prince to be supreme ruler in al causes aÌ„d yet to abridge his authoritie in so many causes is much like as if one should say and affirme of some man that he is a king but yet he is able to coÌ„maund no man to prison for any offence he is a king but if ther be any warre he can coÌ„maund no man to serue him he is a king but yet if there be any businesse stur or disorder in the people he neither can punish theÌ„ nor make out any decree or proclamatioÌ„ against his rebels Of the which premisses they being true it wil follow that in deede he is no king But surely M. Horne me thinke as I haue said that ye aduenture very far and dauÌ„gerously wheÌ„ in the other part touching iurisdiction ye restraine and limit the statute that geueth the authorising of al maner of iurisdictioÌ„ to the Prince yea aÌ„nexeth and vniteth the same to the Croune to the secoÌ„d cohibitiue oÌ„ly And what kind of visitatioÌ„ or reformatioÌ„ shal the Prince make by his ecclesiastical authority if you take away the authority to excoÌ„municat which al ecclesiastical visiters haue aÌ„d euer had and which also expresly beloÌ„geth to the secoÌ„d kind of cohibitiue iurisdictioÌ„ which you make to depeÌ„d of only princes by your own author Antoniê° as I haue before shewed CoÌ„sider M. Horn whether M. FekeÌ„haÌ„ may not iustly say to you that you deal very yl with the words of the act and you expres an vnkiÌ„dly meaning to the Prince aÌ„d the state Wel if there be no remedy but that by your interpretation directe contrary to all reason and the manifeste wordes of the statute the statute it selfe may be so eluded and that ye may by your owne absolute authority spoile your supreame head of one cheif pointe and power ecclesiastical yea of the very cohibitiue IurisdictioÌ„ which you woulde seme to grauÌ„te him with this your pretie and newly coyned distinction which prince like ye woulde haue to be as yt were good and curraÌ„t mony I meane of your two kindes of cohibitiue iurisdiction which I suppose shall neither be founde in any good Diuine nor in any boke of the temporall lawe in all Englande yet woulde I fayne heare from you of some good and conuenient proufe whie the seconde cohibitiue as ye call yt remayneth in the prince onely more then the first Or why if that remaine excommunicatioÌ„ being a part thereof remaineth not in the Prince also I would know farder wheÌ„ euer this iurisdictioÌ„ was takeÌ„ away froÌ„ the PriÌ„ces that it must now be restored again Verely that which they neuer had could neuer be takeÌ„ away And much lesse can it be restored theÌ„ which by no right euer belonged to theÌ„ For shew M. Horne yf you can with al your study and coÌ„fereÌ„ce with your frendes but one exaÌ„ple of any Catholik Prince either in EnglaÌ„d or in al the world beside that gaue the bishops any coÌ„missioÌ„ for the secoÌ„d cohibitiue iurisdictioÌ„ as ye call it specified in those exaÌ„ples that your self reherse out of Antonius I wil geue you one whole twelue moneths M. Horne to bring foorth but one such example I neuer read I neuer heard of any suche commission Onely in the late daies of king Edward the sixt his time I finde such commissions by the whiche al Archbishops Bisshops and other Ecclesiastical persons did then exercise all their Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction There I finde though vntruely
of the lay the bishops and the whole Conuocation withstanding that gifte with al their power I beleue it would trouble him or any wise man els to geue any good reason therefore the obedieÌ„ce of a ChristeÌ„ maÌ„ to the Catholike Church which al Christians in their Crede doe professe presupposed If I should farder aske M. Horn again how he caÌ„ goe for a bishop and write him selfe as he dothe in his booke the B. of Winchester being called to that functioÌ„ only by the letters patents of the Prince without due CoÌ„secration or imposition of handes by any Bishop or bisshops liuing which impositioÌ„ of haÌ„des S. Paule euideÌ„tly practised vpoÌ„ Timothe aÌ„d the vniuersal Church hath alwaies vsed as the only aÌ„d proper meanes to order a bishop of the Churche I am wel assured neither he nor al his fellowes being all vnordered prelats shall euer be able to make any sufficient or reasonable answer answering as ChristiaÌ„ Catholike meÌ„ whereby it may appeare that they may goe for right bishops of Christes Church but that thei must remain as they were before or mere lay men or simple priestes Last of al take you yourself in dede M. Horn for a bishop If so theÌ„ may you preache the word minister the sacrameÌ„ts bind aÌ„d lose vpoÌ„ the coÌ„missioÌ„ geueÌ„ you by God in holy scripture without any furder coÌ„missioÌ„ of the prince If you may so do theÌ„ put the case the Q. Mai. that now is or any other king or Queene of England hereafter should forbid you to preach the word to minister the sacraments or to execute any other part of the bishoply functioÌ„ â–ª and by coÌ„mmissioÌ„ appoint some other to that functioÌ„ Wil you obey or wil you not If yea theÌ„ do you forsake your duty and charge coÌ„mitted vnto you by God If not theÌ„ by vertue of this Act you incurre the penalty therof To this questioÌ„ answer M. Horn if you be able and make if you caÌ„ Christs coÌ„missioÌ„ the holy Scriptures and this Act to agree both together that the keping of the one import not the breach of thother But this shal you neuer be able to do while you liue staÌ„ding to that which in this your booke you haue coÌ„fessed Thus you see euery way how in your own sayings you are intrapped ouertakeÌ„ and coÌ„founded And so must it nedes fal out with euery maÌ„ that with any truth or ê“bability laboreth to maintain an vntruth or absurdity As for your forged and presuÌ„ptuous limitatioÌ„ vpoÌ„ the words of th' Act and abridgiÌ„g of the Q. Ma. autoriti therin expressed I leaue that mater furder to be coÌ„sidered by the graue wisdom of the most Honorables Here remain yet some vntruthes by you auouched that would be coÌ„futed which because the answer alredy waxeth prolixe and long I wil but touch The holy Gospel saith whose syns ye retain shal be retained whose syns ye lose in earth their syns shal be loosed in heaueÌ„ CoÌ„trary to the plaine words of the gospel you wil haue no actual bindiÌ„g or losing by the priest in dede but a declaratioÌ„ aÌ„d an assuraÌ„ce that they are losed or bouÌ„d coÌ„trary I say not only to the words of the gospel but also to the doctrin aÌ„d practise of the vniuersal Church wher the priest hath euer said to the peniteÌ„t Ego absoluote c. I absolue thee aÌ„d saieth not I declare and assure thee that thou art absolued This is a plaine heresy not much vnlike to the NouatiaÌ„s whoÌ„ S. Ambrose coÌ„futeth sauing that their heresy is not so large as is yours For they but in certain crimes denied power of losing in the church referring that power in such cases oÌ„ly to God You deny to be in the church any power at al either of binding or of losing referring al the power to God only aÌ„d not coÌ„sidering how God is to be praised qui taleÌ„ potestateÌ„ dedit hoiÌ„b Who gaue such power to men Which the coÌ„mon Iewes had yet the grace to coÌ„sider in the high Bishop aÌ„d chief priest Christ Iesus our Sauiour An other of your hereticall vntruthes in this place also is that you denie the sacramente of confirmation and that the holie ghoste is not geuen by the imposition of the Bisshoppes hands We reade in S Luke that Christe at his ascension promised the holy ghost to them which was performed vppon whitsonday And what was that but their confirmationÌ„ We reade that S. Paule after he had baptized certain parsons in the which baptisme no doubte they receiued the holy ghoste he put his handes vppon them and they thereby receiued the holy ghoste And this was their confirmation The like is writen in the place here by M. Fekenham alleaged of the Apostles Peter and Iohn that put theire handes vppon those that before were baptized by Philip the Deacon and they thervppon receiued the holy ghoste The which did in the primitiue Churche worke in the Christians with inuisible grace and visible miracles at the time of their confirmatioÌ„ as yt now worketh by inuisible grace onely with a strengthening and confirming of the ghostly and spiritual giftes before receiued wherof the Sacrament hath his name And therfore the Bishoppes coÌ„mission for geuing by the imposition of theire handes the holy ghoste may be iustified aswell by the former authorities of scripture as by the authority practise and doctrine of the Churche that belieueth that the holy ghoste is geueÌ„ for the encrease of al spiritual strength in confirmation The .164 Diuision pag. 109. a. M. Fekenham Wherevnto I do adioyne this obiectioÌ„ following First for the time of the old lawe whiche as Paule saide was a very figure of the new Moses Aaron Eleazarus being Priests they had by the very expresse worde of God this iurisdiction ouer the people of God as to sit in iudgement vpon them and that not only in Ecclesiasticall but also in Politike and ciuill matters and causes they did visite them they did refourme them they did order correct aÌ„d punish them so oft as cause required and without al commission of any ciuill Magistrate Gouernour Kinge or Prince Besides that for the whole time of the olde Lawe there was an expresse Law made where by all Ciuill Magistrats and Iudges were coÌ„maunded in al doubtfull matters to repaire to the Bisshops and Priests and to staie vppon their determinations and iudgemeÌ„ts without declining on the righte hande or the lefte And if that any maÌ„ should disobey the determinatioÌ„ once geuen of the Priest Morietur homo ille like as it appeareth Deut. 17. M. Horne This adiuÌ„ct vvil not serue your turn for it is not possible to stretch it vvithout bursting to ioyn with that you must conclude You begin to ioyne your vvorke together vvith a saying of S. Paule vvhich he .587 neuer said you should haue noted the place vvhere S. Paul saith that the old Lavv vvas a very figure of the nevv There is no such
iudgements and trialles forinsecal also by excommunication depriuation or such like ecclesiastical punishmeÌ„ts without a new commission from the Prince and to bringe nor reason nor authority nor Scripture nor Doctour nor couÌ„cel nor exaÌ„ple in Christes Church at any time practised for the coÌ„firmatioÌ„ of yt but only a decree of laye men contrary to their own Pastours and bishops it is such a kind of persuasioÌ„ as wel may be forceable to the haÌ„d aÌ„d the mouth to extort froÌ„ theÌ„ an outward coÌ„sent for feare of displeasure but to the hart and coÌ„scieÌ„ce of a ChristeÌ„ maÌ„ professing obedieÌ„ce to Christ and his dere Spouse the Church aÌ„d perfourming the same it shal neuer be able to perce vnto As for the Sequele of M. FeckeÌ„haÌ„s argumeÌ„t whereof you say the most simple caÌ„ iudge as though it were but a simple sequele to infer vpoÌ„ the Bishops authority in the old law the IurisdictioÌ„s of the bishops in the new Testament or vpon the example of Eleazar to inferre forinsecall as you call it iurisdiction in bishoppes it appereth by that hath ben said both that the deductioÌ„ froÌ„ the old law to the new is right good and such as your self most pleÌ„tifully haue vsed in the first part of your book yea so far that you charge M. Fekn though vntruly for a Donatist for seeming to auoid such kind of prouf and also it appereth that a vaine thing it were for bishops now after the example of Eleazarus to haue the directing feeding and ordering of Gods people if thei had not withal power and authority to cal back such as goe a stray to punish the offenders to visit their cures to refourme disorders to make lawes for order to be kept c. in vain I say seing that the one without the other neither was at any tyme auaylable neither can by any reason possibly be auailable M. Fekenham The .165 Diuision pag. 110. a. The seconde in the newe Testament like as our Sauiour Christe did committe and leaue the whole Spiritual gouernement of his people and Churche vnto his Apostles and to the Bisshoppes and Priestes and the successours of theÌ„ So they did practise al Spirituall gouernment ouer them they did execute and geue iudgement in the Churche of Christe they did refourme order and correcte all disorder therein and that without all commission ayde or authority of any Temporall Magistrat King or Prince for the space of three hundreth yeres in the primatiue Churche of Christe vnto the time of Constantine he being the first Christian Kinge and Emperour which did ioyne his sworde to the maintenaunce of Gods worde M. Horne Like as the Apostles had in commission povver from Christe our Sauiour to vvhome al povver vvas geuen both in heauen and in earth so faithfully they executed the authâ—rity and charge committed vnto them not seeking their ovvne honour by vsurpation but the glory of Christ by the abasing them selues euen vnto the death Their commission regestred by S. Mathevv appeareth in these vvordes Goe and teache al the nations baptizing them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghost teaching them to kepe all things which I haue commaunded you Hovv faithfully they exercised this authority according to the commission S. Luke shevveth in his Chronicle called the Actes of the Apostles and setteth forth one notable example hereof in Paules oration made to the Elders of Ephesus called to Miletum He taketh them to witnesse that he kept nothing backe from them that might be for their profit but shewed them al the councel of God It is much 592 maruail that Paul shevved al Gods councel vnto them and yet made no mention of any Forinsecal iurisdiction as geuen them by the commission of Gods vvorde The godly Bisshops that succeded the Apostles for manye yeres after follovved the doctrine and examples of the Apostles yet .593 neuer exercising iurisdictioÌ„ Forinsecal neither iudging reforming ordering or correcting othervvise than bye preaching publikely or priuately vvithout especial consent and commission of their Churches during the time thei had no Christian Prince or Magistrate ConstaÌ„tinus as I haue said vvas not the first Christian King But he vvas the very first Emperour as your ovvne vvriters doe vvitnesse that .594 gaue Bisshops authority to iudge and exercise iurisdiction ouer their Clergy and that gaue to the Bisshop of Rome povver and .595 authority ouer other Bisshops as iudges haue the King ouer them and that gaue to him povver and iurisdiction ouer al other Churches if that Donation be not forged vvhich Gratian citeth And Petrus Bertrandus a Bisshop a Cardinal and one of your best learned in the Canon and Ciuil lavves in his treatise De origine iurisdictionum affirmeth that Theodosius and Carolus Magnê° did 596 graunt vnto the Churche al iudgementes For the proufe vvhereof he auoucheth diuerse decrees and .597 addeth That such grauntes were afterwards abrogated The .9 Chapter Of Spirituall Iurisdiction exercised by bisshops without Princes commissions and before Constantines time Stapleton MAister Fekenham bringeth now forth certain autorities of the new testament for the iustifying of his purpose as that Christ committed to his Apostles and to their successours the whole spiritual gouernement and that they did practise and exercise the same .300 yeres together without any maner of commission from Princes eueÌ„ to the tyme of CoÌ„stantin the great M. Horn thinketh it a sufficient answere with stoute asseueration voyde of al maner of probation to auouche that they had a commissioÌ„ he dareth not say now of their Princes being al or almoste al infidels but of their Churches Yea well and sone saide M. Horne but yf ye would withall haue layde before your reader but one authour old or new good or badde vnlesse perchaunce ye may bring some of your own fellowes and but one example for these .300 yeres we would the better haue born with you Now ye tel vs the Apostles did preach and baptise and other such extraordinary matters leauing the thing vnproued wherein lieth al the question betwene yow and M. Feckenham Your assertion is altogeather incredible and a very peeuishe fantasticall imagination that no man of the clergy or Laiety these 300. yeres was excoÌ„municated for any manner of offence no priest was forbydde to minister the Sacraments or deposed for his defaults by his bishoppe but by a speciall commission of the prince or whole Churche Ye may aswel pul downe the towre of London M. Horne with your litle finger as ye shall be able to proue this fonde assertion But yet before CoÌ„stantinus the great his time ye think your self cock sure Let vs then see howe sure ye are euen of this your onely example Verely I suppose that no man lyuinge vnlesse he hath a brasen face would for shame of the worlde thus demeane him self in so graue and weighty matters and linck so many Lies together as lynes as you doe
appeareth also most euidently in Eusebius writing of this Constantine in this sort Quae ab Episcopis in publicis conuentibus editae erant regulae sua consignabat confirmabat authoritate He signed and confirmed with his Authoritie suche Canons or rules as the Bisshoppes in their assemblies had decreed But how As though without his royall assente the Canons shoulde haue beene voide and of no Authoritie as you woulde make folke beleue No but as the same Eusebius writeth in the same place Ne reliquarum gentiuÌ„ principibus liceret quae ab eis decreta essent abrogate to the intent that it should not be lawful for Princes of other Nations to abrogate or refuse the Bishops Decrees And the reason he addeth immediatly Cuiusuis enim Iudicis sententiae SacerdotuÌ„ Dei IudiciuÌ„ anteponenduÌ„ esse For the Emperour estemed that the iudgemeÌ„t and determination of the Priests of God was to be preferred before the Sentence of any other what so euer Iudge This man therefore M. Horn to tel you it ones again can be no fitte exaÌ„ple of the like gouernment now by you mainteined in the Quenes highnes person and al other the inheritours of the Realme of England Now as Constantine did set the Clergie at their liberty whether they would answere in any secular court So the noble Emperour Theodosius set as wel al the Laitie as the Clergie at the like libertie and ordeined that the plaintife in any cause any time before the sentence might breake of from his ordinary Iudge and bring the matter whether the defendaÌ„t would or no to the Episcopal audience The which ordinaunce the Great Charles aboute .400 yeares after renewed to be inuiolably obserued of all his subiectes as wel the Romaines and the Frenchemen as the Almanes the Bauarians the Saxons the TuringiaÌ„s the Frisons the Galles the Britanes the Lombards the Gascons the Beneuentanes the Gothes and the Spaniards As ye do with Constantinus Magnus so doe ye with Theodosius Magnus and with Carolus Magnus constitutions bringing them forth out of your blind Cacus denne to dasel and bleare the Readers withal as though the Bishops helde their ordinarie iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall by these decrees onely which do nothing thervnto appertaine but shew a marueilouse priuilege geuen to them to heare and determine also all teÌ„porall matters brought before theÌ„ And if these graunts wer afterward abrogated yet was that no abrogatioÌ„ to the iurisdictioÌ„ that is proprely the ecclesiastical iurisdictioÌ„ and your author doth not say that such grauÌ„ts were afterwards abrogated but doth reason against them that saide they were abrogated Neither is his booke entituled De origine iurisdictionuÌ„ but de iurisdictione Ecclesiastica And was this Petrus Bertrandus then as you say a Bisshop a Cardinal and one of our best learned men in the Canon and Ciuil Lawes Suerly then may your Petrus Cugneâ—ius thoughe ye auaÌ„ce him as a worthy knight go hide his head in a corner For againste him and his folishe fonde arguing againste the ecclesiastical liberty is all his booke writen as I haue before declared Wherfore all this your tale that the bishops held their iurisdiction ouer theire clergy by Constantine his ghifte is as true as your other adiuncte that he gaue the Bishops of Rome power and authority ouer other Bishoppes and ouer al churches He might well as he did in dede reuerently agnise and by his Imperial authoritie confirme and corroborate the vsual authoritie of the Popes holines but that the original of this authority as ye imagine came froÌ„ him ys a great vntruth For euen before his time and after not onely the Christians but the verie infidelles suche as were acquainted with the maners and fashions of the Christians did wel knowe that the Bishop of Rome was counted the cheif bishop amonge them al. And for this cause Ammianus Marcellinê° an heathnish cronicler writeth that though Athanasius the good bishop were by a councell of Arrian bishoppes condemned yet that notwithstanding ConstaÌ„tius sonne to this Constantinus and an Arrian and his plain open enemie was ernestlie in hande with Pope Liberius also to confirme their sentence and was by him banished because he would not condescende to theÌ„perours request Againe before the time of this Constantinus Paulus Samosatenus bishop of Antiochia being depriued by a councell of bishoppes and an other appointed by the sayde councel in his stede kepte stil possession nothing regarding either the sentence of depriuation or of excommunication The Emperour Aurelianus being certified of this matter gaue commaundement that he whome so euer the bishoppe of Rome with the bishops of Italie should acknowledge for the bishop of Antiochia should be taken and accepted for the true bishop And so was Paulus by this Emperours coÌ„maundement though he were a very infidell thruste out and an other set in What proufe haue ye now M. Horne that the Pope hath his authoritie from Constantine Surely Gentle Reader none other but the Donation of Constantine whiche he him selfe doth not beleeue to be true and therefore dothe qualifie it with these woordes if it be not forged Whiche being so why doeth your wisedome then M. Horne alleage it Neither wil I here though Leo the 9. doth constantly testifie that he sawe and had him selfe the originall of this donation laide by ConstaÌ„tinus owne hand vpon the bodie of S. Peter though Eugubinus answereth to all Laurence Valla his obiections againste this donation yea though Balsamon a Grecian and an open ennemie to the Pope alleageth this Donation as authentical I wil not yet I say resolue any thing for the one or the other side I will take it as I find it and take you withall as I find you and that is a plaine open lyar For howsoeuer the Donation be the Pope toke not his Supremacy of this Donation but had it before of an higher Emperour and that is of Christe him selfe Whiche the foresaid donatioÌ„ doth also openly testify but not in the .86 as ye falsly quote it but in the .96 distinctioÌ„ M. Fekenham The .166 Diuision Pag. 111. a. At the first Councel holden at Hierusalem for the reformation of the controuersy that was than at Antioche touching Circumcision and the obseruation of Moses Lawe decree was made there by the Apostles and Priestes vnto the beleuers at Antioche that they should absteine from these fowre chiefe and necessary thinges viz. ab immolatis simulachrorum à sanguine suffocato à fornicatione à quib custodieÌ„tes vos bene agetis The whiche first councell was there assembled by the Apostles of Christ. The Decrees and Lawes were made there by theÌ„ The coÌ„trouersy at Antioche was by them reformed ordered and corrected without all commission of any temporal Magistrate King or Prince M. Horne God be thanked that S. Luke maketh to vs a sufficient report of this councell vvho maketh no mention of any .598 Priest there present as you vntruely report onles
I denie Againe In dede ye haue laboured more to fynd owt those reasons which ye might better vtter against your self than against me But in such a case ye shuld not nede to take suche paynes yf yow had shame in you Whether I say truely or no in this I referre thee good Reader to my whole answere and those that wil see it coÌ„pendiously proued to my preface and to the Conclusion of the thirde booke And here woulde I faine breake of my confutation of M. Hornes answere to S. Augustines testimony sauing that he doth otherwise so excedingly belie S. Augustine here that I may in no wise altogether passe ouer this shamelesse demeanure You say then M. Horne that S. Augustin aswel in his bookes against Iulian as in his bookes against the Donatistes is of your minde towching the ecclesiastical supremacy in Princes as ye say ye haue declared And that the Fathers whome S. Augustine citeth against IuliaÌ„ are of the same minde also Shewe me then good M. Horne but one authority out of S. Augustine or any one of the Fathers whome he reherseth which are Cyprianus Ireneus Basilius Hilarius Ambrosius Hieronymus and Pope Innocentius with others eyther that the Pope hath not the superiority in matters Ecclesiastical or that Princes haue the same All that hitherto ye haue browght out of S. Augustine with whose sayinges ye haue filled vp some leaues reacheth no farther theÌ„ that Princes may by their lawes punishe suche as be disobedieÌ„te to the Churche lawes for the whiche thing no man doth contende with you But we woulde fayne see you ones drawe to the question yt selfe and to shewe some open place of S. Augustine either for the Princes or againste the Popes supremacy wherin seing ye haue done nothing we wil assay what we call say for the Popes primacy by S. Augustine To auoyde tediousnes we will reherse but a fewe testimonies and suche onely as we haue taken out of his bokes againste the saide Donatistes and Pelagians Who is it then M. Horne but S. Augustine that writinge againste the Donatistes saith that the principality of S. Peters Apostleship is to be preferred before any other bishoprike Who is it but S. Augustine that vseth to bringe againste the Donatistes the authority of the sea of Rome as a singular and a principal authoritye Who ys yt but S. Augustine that writinge againste the saide Donatistes sayeth the sea of Peter is the rocke that the proude gates of hel do not ouercome Let vs now come a litle to the Pelagians Their capitain Pelagius and an other archeheretike of theire secte called Caelestius were condeÌ„ned by Pope Innocentius and Sozimus throwgh out at the Christian world They were also condemned in Aphrike by the bishops there Yet S. Augustine writeth not that they were condeÌ„ned by theÌ„ through out al the world as he doth of the said two Popes because the sentence of the Aphricane Bishoppes bounde the Aphricanes onely the Popes sentence bounde the whole worlde And therfore the sayed Bishoppes after they had condemned those heretikes desired Pope Innocentius to confirme their sentence which thing Innocentius did as appereth by his answere to the foresaide Bishoppes yet extant in S. Augustines works Which letters geue a verie ample testimony for the Popes supreamacye and sheweth amoÌ„g other things that yt was a rule kepte throwgh out al the worlde that in graue â–ª and weighty matters ecclesiastical and for the determinatioÌ„ of matters of faith nothing was wont to be done without the Popes consent and authority Againe S. Augustine writing against the saide PelagiaÌ„s sendeth his boks to Pope Bonifacius to examine and amende theÌ„ yf any thing misliked him and saieth that the saide Bonifacius had the preemineÌ„ce in the pastoral watchtowre S. Augustine also in this boke against Iulian the Pelagian numbring vp a number of holy and auncieÌ„te Bishoppes as Ireneus Cyprianus Hilarius and others saieth that Pope Innocentius though he were later in time yet was he before them for his place and dignity He doth vrge and presse very muche the saide Iulian with the authority of the Apostolicall sea and of the sayde Innocentius Yea and that for an heresy that your Apostle Caluin and our good new bretherne in Englande both in theire preachinges and teachinges do mainteine that is that children thoughe they be not baptised shall yet that notwithstanding enioy the euerlastinge life These testimonies do fully declare S. Augustines minde touching the Popes Supremacy quite repugnante to the doctrine of this your booke Wherby yt appereth that ye litle regarde howe and after what sorte ye doe alleadge hym and that ye doe not alleadge him for any good matter ye fynde in him but onely to make an owtwarde shewe and apparance to the vnlearned and vnskilful people to beguile them wyth smothe talke and fayre wordes The .179 Diuision pag. 126. b. M. Fekenham After long expectation and many promises his L. final answeare to the sayd obiections was as hereafter foloweth For as much as I doo perceiue that you are not to be resolued in this matter I shal here stay and procede no further with you in the same and like as you haue bene so you shal be vnto me most hartely welcome You shal lacke nothinge that is in my house to pleasure you And from hencefoorth I shal leaue to haue any further talke or conference with you in these controuersies of Religion And for all such talke and wryting as hath passed already betwene vs I shal perfourme this my promise both first and last made vnto you that you shal be well assured not to suffer any hurte or dammage thereby M. Horne You deliuered this obiection vnto me in vvritinge betvvixt Easter and VVhitsontyde about the ende of Aprill vvithin tvvo daies folovving vvhen I had redde the same I tould you that in the collection of your common places you vvere much abused for that you had mistaken theÌ„ and obserued no iuste circumstances of the authorities vvhereby to haue knovven the authours meaning And so vvee continued in debatinge and reasoning from time to time about this matter of Iurisdiction and others vntil the beginning of September folovving before vvhich time your obstinacy grevve so much that I vvas forced through your vnorderly behauiour to restreigne you of your liceÌ„tious talke and sequester you from conference vvith any hauinge so muche before abused your self and especially in mine absence and I vvas the rather moued so to dâ—o for that I perceiued al that I did vvas but in vaine as at diuerse times and often I repeated that vnto you obstinatelie bente to the contrarie meaninge by such stoutenesse to recouer your credite vvhiche through your inconstancy vvas so empaired amongest your friendes I sayd at your first comming and many times after you beinge sente by the Honourable Councel that you vvere vvelcome vvhich by good proufe although vtterly vvithout any your good deserte yee founde true I did say that
to maÌ„ By which feate aÌ„d sleight by turning CoÌ„cupisceÌ„ce into sin they proued both their Imputatiue righteousnes as that maÌ„ was neuer iuste good and holy but only was accepted for such though he remained stil a sinner aÌ„d had sin alwaies in him and also that the same sinne was in him a deadly and mortall sinne Which is the thinge that M. Horne here affirmeth auouching that euery sinne of yt selfe is mortal Which to make an ende hereof shortly is as much to say as euery sicknesse infirmitie or disease is of it self death For as the body liueth by the soule so the soule liueth by God As the body dieth when the soule is separated from it so the soule dieth when God is gone from it Which matter S. Augustin most excellently handleth in his notable worke de Ciuitate Dei As therefore not euery disordered affection of the body killeth it out of hande but the body is longe and much vexed with deseases and infirmites before it dye yea and as longe as the desease reacheth not to the harte or roote of vital humour where hence the life springeth as longe as that principle of life is whole and sounde the body liueth and dieth not so not euery coÌ„uersion of the soule to the creatures bredeth a separation of the soule froÌ„ the Creatour but the soule fighteth againste the fleshe and though in that fight it take a blowe yea and a wounde to now and theÌ„ yet the sowle recouereth it selfe and yeldeth not wholy to the fleshe or to any other creature but cleaueth stil to God his Creatour loueth him stil kepeth his lawe and so falleth not deadly neyther synneth mortally vntyll it geue ouer to vice and forsaketh God Which euil men doe without any fight or combat at al. But good men either not at al or very seldom and after great fight and theÌ„ are they no more good men or the childreÌ„ of God but are nowe become the children of wrathe so to perish euerlastingly except they repente This is a greate and a clere distinction betwene mortal sinne and venial synne Now where you adde that though euery synne be of yt selfe mortal yet it is also venial to be purged by the merites of Christ only yf you take venial for pardonable or remissible we grauÌ„te euery synne be it neuer so mortall is in such a sense venial the synne against the holy Ghoste which is finall impeniteÌ„ce alonely excepted But yf you take venial as it is an opposite to mortal as M. FekenhaÌ„ toke it wheÌ„ he auouched that by a godly ceremony venial synnes may be remitted and as you must take it yf you wil coÌ„trary M. Fekenhams assertion then are you in an other foule errour For as the venial synne is not mortal as I haue proued so neither is any mortal synne venial as longe as it is mortall This confounding of degrees in synne to make all mortall is a Stoical and Barbarous paradoxe opening the gate to al dissolutenesse and licentiousnesse not only coÌ„trary to truth and lerning but coÌ„trary to good life and good maners And it semeth to agree iumpe with Luthers paradoxe wherein he taught and defended That a good worke be it neuer so wel done is according to the mercy of God a venial sinne and according to the IudgemeÌ„t of God a mortal sinne Which straunge paradoxe of that fonde fryer beinge lernedly and pithely confuted of our learned and holie countreman the blessed Bishoppe of Rochester Doctour Fysher I remitte the lerned Readers to that place where also they shall fynde this distinction of mortall and veniall sinne clerely prosecuted againste the wicked doctrine of Luther there and against the peuishe assertion of M. Horne here Where you adde by the merites of Christe onely yf you meane as by the principal effect and by the vertue wherof only all other workes of men are auaylable and meritorious I grauÌ„t you say wel But yf you say mortal synne is purged by the merites of Christ only excluding by the worde only al repentance contrition of harte confession of the mouthe and satisfaction of our owne partes to our ability I note it for an other foule errour and wicked heresye of Luther your grandsir whereby to extolle the merites of Christ you doe ful peuishly exclude al worke of maÌ„ which yet the Scriptures expressely require to concurre with the merits of Christ not as of theÌ„ selues simply auailable but as by the merit of Christes passioÌ„ auaylable aÌ„d as the workes of the holy Ghost geueÌ„ vnto vs by Charity poured into our harts good aÌ„d meritorious RemeÌ„bre M. Horn what Christ said to the Pharisees Oportebat ista facere illa noÌ„ intermittere You ought to doe these thiÌ„gs aÌ„d not to omit the other things Put altogether M. Horne Christes merites purchase heaueÌ„ to mankind It is most true And yet it purchaseth not heaueÌ„ to the Infidell to the Iewe to the heretike or to the wicked ChristiaÌ„ But oÌ„ly to such as haue faith that worketh by charity which charity coÌ„preheÌ„deth al maner of good works You affirme beside against M. Fekenham that no veniall sinne can be remitted by any ceremony For a short answer to this point bicause largely this matter is treated by M. Allen in his last booke of the power of priesthod c. heare what S. Augustin sayth in his Enchiridio within few chapters after the wordes lastly recited where he made a distinction betwene crimen and peccatum Thus he saith De quotidianis autem breuibus leuibúsque peccatis sine quibus haec vita non ducitur quotidiana oratio fidelium satisfacit As coÌ„cerning the daily short and light sinnes without the which no man liueth the daily prayer of the faithefull doth satisfye By the daily prayer he meaneth the Pater noster as in the same chapter he expoundeth him self Againe in the next chapter he teacheth that by all kindes of almes dedes vnder almes dedes comprehending al good workes such venial sins are forgeueÌ„ Thê° he saith after a loÌ„g enumeratioÌ„ of good works Multa itaque genera sunt eleemosynaruÌ„ quae cuÌ„ facimê° adiuuamur vt dimittaÌ„tur nobis nostra peccata There are therfore many kinds of almes dedes which wheÌ„ we doe we are holpeÌ„ to haue our sins forgeueÌ„ vnto vs. Nowe why are the saying of our daily prayer aÌ„d the doiÌ„g of almes dedes thought of this lerned Father to redeme these smaller sinnes but bicause as such sins are not coÌ„mitted with a total auersioÌ„ froÌ„ God the creatour for so were they mortal not venial but by a fraile coÌ„uersioÌ„ to the creature so again euery good motioÌ„ to God ward again expressed by some such vertuous act redemeth in the sight of God the former decliniÌ„g froÌ„ God This ReuereÌ„t motioÌ„ to Godward as it is expressed by S. Augustin here for exaÌ„ples fake in sayiÌ„g the Pater noster aÌ„nd in doing of almes dedes so by the IudgmeÌ„t of the Church which no true
stoutly that there was no fier that could consume or hurt her I could here name a rablemente of like holy Martyrs as Richard Hune that hong him selfe King Debnam and Marsh hanged for sacrilege Beside a number of such notoriouse and detestable heretiques that M. Foxe him selfe wil not I trowe as great an heretike as he is denie them to be heretiks As Peter a Germain being an Anabaptist as Anthonie Person an Heretike of the secte of the Paulicians of whom we haue spoken As D. Wesalian that denied the holy Ghost to procede from the Father and the sonne And to conclude this matter of the notable heretike Cowbridge burnte at Oxford Who expounded these wordes of Christ Take eate this is my bodie that shal be betrayed for you thus Take eate this is my body in the which the peple shal be deceiued Who also affirmed that the name of Christ was a foule name and therfore raced it out of his bookes whersoeuer he foūd it And would reade for Iesu Christ Iesu Iesu saiyng that Christ was the deceiuer of the world and that al were damned in hel that beleued in the name of Christ. We wil now with this blessed Martyr of M. Foxes canonisation ende this talke with the whole conference leauing it to the indifferent Reader to consider whether the Catholiques or the Protestantes drawe nearer to the Donatists Let vs then procede foorth and consider vppon what good motiues ye charge M. Fekenham to be a Donatiste which are to say the truth none other but falshod and follie But as ye surmise the one is because he craftelye and by a subtill shift refuseth the proufes of the olde Testamente as the Donatists did The other because he with the said Donatists shoulde auouche that secular Princes haue not to meddle in matters of Religion or causes Ecclesiasticall nor to punishe anye man for suche causes Surely for your firste motiue so fine and subtile a blaste of an horne a man shal not lightlye find againe among al the horners in England I suppose But yet by your leaue Syr your horne hath a foule flawe When M Fekenham offereth to yeld if ye can proue this regiment either by the order that Christ left behinde him in the new Testament either by the Doctours either by Councels or els by the cōtinual practise of any one Church think you M. Horne that this is not a large and an ample offer I wil not say that this is subtyle shift but rather a very blind bytle blonte shifte of yours to charge him with any refusall of the olde Testament either openly or couertly There is not so much as anye coniecture apparente to gather this vppon yea the olde Testamente is not by this offerre as ye blindlye and blontly gheasse excluded but verely included For if the new Testament which reherseth many things out of the olde haue any thing out of the olde Testamente that make for this regimente yf any Doctour olde or newe yf any Councell haue any thinge oute of the olde Testament that serue for this regimente then is Maister Fekenham concluded yea by his owne graunte For so the Doctour or Councel hath yt he is satisfied accordinge to his demaunde Whereby it foloweth that he doth not refuse but rather alowe and affirme the proufes of the olde Testamente And surely wise men vse not greatly to shew that that maketh against them but most for them Wherefore it is incredible that Maister Fekenham shoulde ons imagyn any suche syftynge or shyftynge as ye dreame of hauinge wonne his purpose againste you euen by the verye olde Testamente as we haue declared And therfore it is spoken but in your dreame when ye say ye haue thereby with meruelouse force shaken M. Fekenhams holde which suerlye is so forcible as wil not beate down a very paper wal And meruayle were it yf ye shoulde so batter his holde when that these your great cannons come not nigh his holde by one thowsande myles Againe this accusation is incredible For M. Fekenham him selfe is so farre of from this suspition that he himselfe bringeth in against you many and good testimonies of the old Law as fol. 109. and 123. by the force whereof only he may be thought to haue shaken and ouerthrowen to your rotten weake holde vnderpropped with your great Sampsons postes as mighty as bulrushes But I perceiue by your good Logike your Law and like Diuinity silēce maketh a denial and because M. Fekenham maketh no mention in this place of the matter to be proued by the old Testamēt therfore he subtillie refuseth the proufes thereof But yee should rather me thinketh induce the contrary and that he consenteth to you for the olde Testament Quia qui tacet consentire videtur as the olde saiyng is For he that holdeth his peace seemeth to consent and so ye might haue better forced vppon him that all was yours presupposing that ye had proued the matter by the olde Testament But you will needes driue your reason an other waye Let vs see then what we Catholiques can saye to you for your Apologie by the like drifte You and your Colleages seing your selues charged with many heresies to wipe away that blotte if it be possible and for your better purgation take vpon you to shew your whole ful and entier belief And therevpon you recite the Articles of the common Crede But now good Syr I aske you a questiō What if by chaunce you had omitted any one of them would ye gladly be measured by this rule yee measure M. Fekenham by Would ye be content that the Catholiques should lay to your charge that ye subtilly refuse that article that you haue forslowen to reherse If ye would not thē must I say to you with Christe Quod tibi non vis fieri alteri non facias Do you not to an other that ye would not haue don to your selfe If you say that ye are content to stande to the very same lawe as if ye be a reasonable and a constant man you must needes say Loe then good Syr you haue concluded your selfe and all your companions plaine heretiques for the refusal of the Article Conceiued of the holye Ghost whiche ye omitte in the rehearsall of your Creede which Article I am assured ye find not there Then further seing that the Archeheretique Eutiches and before him Appollinarius in the recitinge of the common Creede ranne in a maner the same race you following them at the heeles as fast as may be pretermitting also these wordes Incarnatus est de Spiritu sancto here might we euen by your owne rule and exaumple crye oute vppon you all as Apollinarians and Eutichians and that with more colourable matter then you haue eyther to make Maister Fekenham a Donatiste or that your Apologie hath to make the worthie and learned Cardinall Hosius a Zuenckfeldian Wherein your Rethorique is all togeather as good as is this yours here against Maister Fekenham Neither doe we
greatly passe howe the Donatistes in this pointe demeaned them selues and whether they openly or priuilie shonned proufes brought and deduced out of the olde Testament In deed the Manichees denied the authoritie of the bookes of the old Law and Testament whiche I reade not of the Donatists Yea in the very same boke and chapter by you alleaged Petilian him self taketh his proufe against the Catholikes out of the olde Testament whiche you know could serue him in litle stede if he him selfe did reiect such kind of euidences This now shall suffice for this branche to purge M. Fekenham that he is no Donatist or Heretique otherwise Concerning the other beside your falshood your great follie doth also shew it sesfe too as well as in the other to imagin him to be a Donatist and to think or say as you say they did that ciuile magistrates haue not to do with religiō nor may not punish the trāsgressours of the same M. Fekenhā saith no such thing ād I suppose he thinketh no such thing and furder I dare be as bold to say that there is not so much as a light cōiecture to be groūded therof by any of M. Fekenhās words onlesse M. Horne become sodenly so subtil that he thinketh no differēce to say the Prince shuld not punish an honest true mā in stede of a theef ād to say he shuld not punish a theef Or to say there is no difference betwixt althings ād nothing For though M. Fekenhā ād al other Catholiks do deny the ciuile Princes supreme gouernmēt in al causes ecclesiasticall yet doth not M. Fekenhā or any Catholike deny but that ciuil Princes may deale in some matters ecclesiastical as aduocates and defendours of the churche namely in punishing of heretikes by sharp lawes vnto the which lawes heretikes are by the Church first geuē vp and deliuered by open excōmunication and condemnatiō As for S. Augustines testimonies they nothing touch M. Fekenham and therefore we will say nothing to them but kepe our accustomable tale with you and beside all other score vp as an vntruth that ye say here also that the Papists are no parte of the Catholique Churche no more then the Donatistes M. Horne The .19 Diuision pag. 12. b. But for that S. Augustines iudgemēt and mine in this controuersie is all one as your opinion herein differeth nothing at al from the Donatists I vvil vse no other confirmation of my proufes alleaged out of the olde testament for the reproufe of your guilful restraint then Christes Catholique Church vttered by that Catholique Doctour S. Augustine against all the sectes of Donatistes vvhether they be Gaudentians Petilians Rogatists Papists or any other petit sectes sprōg out of his loines vvhat name so euer they haue S. Austine against Gaudētius his second Epistle affirmeth saiyng I haue saith he already hertofore made it manifest that it apertained to the kings charge that the Niniuites shoulde pacifye Gods wrath which the Prophet had denoūced vnto thē The kings which are of Christes Church do iudge most rightly that it appertaineth vnto their cure that you Donatists rebel not without punishmēt agaīst the same c. God doth inspire into kīgs that they should procure the cōmaundement of the Lorde to be performed or kept in their kingdom For they to whom it is said and now ye kings vnderstand be ye learned ye Iudges of the earth serue the Lord in feare do perceiue that their autoriti ought so to serue the lord that such as wil not obei his wil should be punished of that autority c. Yea saith the same S. Aug. Let the kings of the erth serue Christ euē in making lawes for Christ. meaning for the furtherance of Christes religiō How then doth kings saith S. Aug. to Bonifacius against the Donatists serue the Lord with reuerēce but in forbidding and punishing with a religious seuerity such things as are don against the Lords commaūdements For a king serueth one way in that he is a man an other way in respect that he is a king Because in respecte that he is but a mā he serueth the Lord in liuing faithfully but in that he is also a king he serueth in making lawes of cōuenient force to cōmaūd iust things ād to forbid the cōtrary c. In this therfore kings serue the Lord whē they do those things to serue him which thei could not do were thei not kings c. But after that this begā to be fulfilled which is writē and al the kings of the earth shal worship him al the nations shal serue him what mā being in his right wittes may say to Kings Care not you in your Kingdomes who defēdeth or oppugneth the Church of your Lord Let it not appertaine or be any part of your care who is religious in your kingdome or a wicked deprauer of Religion This vvas the iudgemēt of S. Aug. or rather of Christes Catholike Church vttered by him against the Donatists touching the seruice authority povver ād care that Kings haue or ought to haue in causes spiritual or ecclesiastical the vvhich is also the iudgemēt of Christes catholik church novv in these dais and defended by the true ministers of the same Catholique Churche against al Popish Donatists vvith the force of Gods holy vvoorde bothe of the old and nevv Testament euen as S. Augustine did before VVho to proue and confirme this his assertiō to be true against the Donatists did auouch many moe examples then I haue cited out of the old Testament as of the King of Niniue of Darius Nabuchodonozor and others affirming that the histories and other testimonies cited out of the old Testament are partely figures and partly prophecies of the povver duety and seruice that Kings shoulde ovve and perfourme in like sort to the furtherance of Christes Religion in the time of the nevv Testament The Donatists in the defence of their heresie restrained S. Augustine to the exāple and testimony of such like order of Princes Seruice in matters of Religion to be found in the Scriptures of the nevve Testament meaning that it could not be found in any order that Christ lefte behind him as you also fantasied vvhē you vvrote the same in your boke folovving yea going euen cheke by cheke vvith thē But S. Austine maketh ansvvere to you al for him and me both VVho rehearsing the actes of the godly Kings of the old Testament taketh this for a thing not to be denied to vvit That the auncient actes of the godly kings mentioned in the Prophetical bokes were figures of the like facts to be don by the godly Princes in the time of the new Testament And although there vvas not in the time of the Apostles nor long time after any Kings or Princes that put the same ordinance of Christ in practise al being infidels for the most part Yet the seruice of kings was figured as S. Augustine saith in Nabuchodonozor and others to be
that vvere in Heresie in such sort that the Heretikes vvere not onely asionied at his questions but also beganne to fal out amongest themselues some liking some misliking the Emperours purpose â–ª This done he commaundeth eche sect to declare their faieth in vvritinge and to bringe it vnto him he appointeth to them a daye vvhereat they came as the Emperoure commaunded and deliuered vnto him the fourmes of their faieth in vvritinge vvhen the Emperoure had the sedules in his handes he maketh an earneste praier vnto God for the assistaÌ„ce of his holy spirite that he may discern the truth and iudge rightly And after he had redde them al he condemneth the heresies of the Arians and Eunomians renting their sedules in sundre and alovveth only and confirmeth the faith of the Homousians and so the Heretiks departed ashamed and dasht out of countenance The .7 Chapter Of Theodosius the first and his dealing in causes Ecclesiasticall Stapleton THis Theodosius had no greater care to further true religioÌ„ then ye haue to slaÌ„der and hinder it and that by notable lying as it will al other things set a parte appere by the heape of lyes that in this story of this one Emperour ye gather here together And first that ye call Flauian the godly bisshop of Antioche For albeit he stode very stowtly in the defence of the Catholike faith and suffred much for it yet in that respecte for the which he is here by you alleaged he was not godly As one that came to his bisshoprike againste the canons and contrarye to the othe taken that he woulde neuer take vppon him to be bisshop of Antioche Paulinus lyuing and ministring by this meanes an occasioÌ„ of a greate schisme to the Church which continued many yeares And for this cause the Arabians the Cyprians the Aegiptians with Theophilus Patriarche of Alexandria and the west Churche with Pope Damasus Siricius and Anastasius would not receiue hiÌ„ into their coÌ„munioÌ„ Neither could he be setled quietly aÌ„d receiued as Bisshop vntil he had recoÌ„ciled hiÌ„self to the Pope and that his fault was by him forgeueÌ„ For the which purpose he sente to Rome a soleÌ„pne ambassade And so it appereth that the .2 lyne after ye adioyne a freshe lie that the bisshop of Rome did falsly accuse him of many crimes who layde to him no lesse crimes then al the world did beside which was periury and schisme Then as though ye would droppe lies or lie for the whetstone ye adde that by his supreame authority he set peace and quietnes in the Church for this matter shuffliÌ„g in by your supreame lyiÌ„g authority these words supreame authority which neither your author Theodoretus hath nor any other yea directly contrary to the declaratioÌ„ of Theodoretus who in the verye chapter by you alleaged reciteth the ambassade I speake of which is a good argumeÌ„t of the Popes Supremacy and may be added to other exaÌ„ples of M. Doctor Hardings and of myne in my Return c. agaiÌ„st M. Iewel in the matter of recoÌ„ciliatioÌ„ For as fauorable as themperour was to him and for al the Emperours supremacy the Emperour himself commauÌ„ded hiÌ„ to go to Rome to be recoÌ„ciled he being one of the foure patriarches And Flauianus was fayn also to desire Theophilus bisshop of Alexandria to sende some body to Pope Damasus to pacifie aÌ„d mollifie his anger aÌ„d to pardoÌ„ hiÌ„ who sent Isidorus for that purpose And as I haue said Flauianus hiÌ„self afterward sent Acatius and others his ambassadours Which Acatius pacified the schismes that had coÌ„tinued .17 yeres and restored as your own author Theodoretê° saith peace to the Church paceÌ„ saith he Ecclesiis restituit Which words though Theodoretus doth speake of theÌ„peror Theodo â–ª yet he speaketh the like of Acatiê° which ye guilefully apply to Theodosiê° oÌ„ly aÌ„d as falsely conclude therof that Theodosiê° therfore should be supreme head of the Church For so by that reason Acatiê° should also be supreme head of the Church Now foloweth M. Horns narratioÌ„ of certain couÌ„cels holdeÌ„ vnder this Theodosiê° so disorderly so coÌ„fusely so vnperfectly and so lyingly haÌ„dled as a maÌ„ may wel woÌ„der at it He maketh of two couÌ„cels kepte at CoÌ„staÌ„tinople three wheras the .1 aÌ„d .2 is al one beiÌ„g the secoÌ„d famouse general couÌ„cel aÌ„d properly to cal a couÌ„cell the third is none but rather a conference or talke The first CouÌ„cel which he telleth vs of was called he saith to electe aÌ„d order a bisshop in the sea of CoÌ„stantinople Which in case he caÌ„ proue theÌ„ distincted Councels was don in the CouÌ„cel general and in the secoÌ„de as he placeth it aÌ„d not in the first As also the electioÌ„ aÌ„d ordinatioÌ„ of Nectariê° He saieth that Gregory NaziaÌ„zene was neuer bisshop of CoÌ„stantinople but did vtterly refuse it Whereas after he had taught there .12 yeares to the great edifying of the Catholikes against the Arians not enioyinge the name of a Bisshop all this while he was at the lengthe sette in his bisshoply see by the worthy Meletius bisshop of Antioche and by the whole noÌ„ber of the bisshops asseÌ„bled at the general cuÌ„cell Though in dede he did not longe enioye it but voluntarily and much against this good Emperours mynde gaue it ouer to auoyde a schisme that grewe vppon his election For whome Nectarius that M. Horne speaketh of was chosen being at that tyme vnbaptized And so chosen by the Emperour as M. Horne saieth that the Bisshops though they meruailed at the Emperours iudgement yet they coulde not remoue him Wherein ye may note two vntruthes the one that M. Horne woulde gather Theodosius supremacy by this electioÌ„ Of the which electioÌ„ or rather naminge for the Emperour only pricked him I haue alredy answered in my Returne against M. Iewel and said there more at large And the bisshoppes with common consent of the whole Synod doe pronounce him and creat him bisshop as also intheir letters to Pope Damasus they professe The other that the Bisshops could not remoue him Yes M. Horn that they might aswel by the Apostolical the Nicene and other canons of the Churche as by the very plaine holye scripture and by S. Paule by expresse wordes forbidding it for that he was Neophytus Suerly of you that would seame to be so zelouse a keper of the sincere worde of God and so wel a scriptured man this is nothing scripturelye spoken And therefore this your sayinge muste needes make vppe the heape Yea and therefore they might lawfullye haue infringed and annichilated this election sauing that they bore with this good graciouse Emperour that tendred Christes Church and faith so tenderlye euen as Melchiades before rehearsed bore with the good Constantin Here may we now adde this also to the heape that ye woulde inferre this Soueraynety in Theodosius because the Fathers of this general Councel desired him to confirme their decrees and canons Which is a mighty great copiouse argumente with you throughout your
booke all in fewe words easie to be answered and auoyded For this kind of confirmation is not nor euer was required as though their ordinaunces were voyde and frustrate without it as al that ye now doe haue don or shal doe in your synodes and conuocations without the ratification of the Quenes Maiesty Which thiÌ„g for decrees of the Churche ye doe not ye haue not nor euer shal be able to proue But to this ende were the Emperours required to confirme Councels that the willing and towarde people might haue the better lyking in them and be the more allured carefully and exactly to obserue them vpon the good lyking of their prince And withal that the frowarde and malignaÌ„te people that make no great accompte of the censures of the Churche because yt doth not presently touche the body or any temporal losse might for feare of ciuil and temporall punishement be brought the soner to keepe and obserue theÌ„ And this litle short but so true an answere as ye shal neuer with al your cuÌ„ning honestly shift it of may suffice to euacuate and emptye a great part of your boke resting in this point But to shew in this place ones for al how emperors haue dealed aÌ„d may deale in General CouÌ„cels either for calling them or for confirming them or for their demeanour in them I wil put certayne points or Articles and note thereby what the practise of the Churche hath bene in this behalfe to th entent that the Reader maye knowe what it is that we defende and what had bene your part to haue proued least walking alwaies in generalities we spende words without fruit and bring the cause to no certaine issew And this I professe to take of one of your own special authors M. Horne the Cardinal of Cusa out of whoÌ„ you alleage afterwarde a longe processe as one that made wholy for you And in very dede he speaketh as much for the Emperour and for his prerogatiue in ordering of generall Councels as he could possibly finde by the continual practise of the Church from Constantines tyme down to his which was to the late Councell of Basil vnder Sigismunde the Emperour in the yere 14.32 The first poiÌ„t theÌ„ is that KiÌ„gs aÌ„d PriÌ„ces ought to be careful and diligeÌ„t that Synods aÌ„d CouÌ„cels may be had as the especial aduocates of the Church and as of greatest power to procure quiet paisible passage to CouÌ„cels abyding there aÌ„d returniÌ„g home againe ExaÌ„ple in an admonitioÌ„ of S. Gregory to Theodorike the FreÌ„che King exhorting to see a Synod called in his realme for the repressing of Simony The seconde point is that to such Synods Princes ought to come with all mekenesse reuerence and humility and with gentle exhortations Examples are Riccharedus SisenaÌ„dus and Chintillanus KiÌ„gs of Spayne as we shal hereafter more largely declare in certain of the Toletane Councels The third point is that as KiÌ„gs and PriÌ„ces for their own prouinces do cal prouincial Synods so the Emperorus for the whole corps of ChristeÌ„doÌ„ do cal General CouÌ„cels NoÌ„ ê™ coactiuè sed exhortatoriè colligere debeat Not that by force or coÌ„straint but by way of exhortatioÌ„ he ought to cal theÌ„ Examples are the Councel of Aquileia vnder S. Ambrose the 4. General Councell vnder Pope Leo the sixt vnder Agatho the 7. vnder AdriaÌ„ the first with the rest as of eche in their places we shal declare The fourth that the Emperor in case of a general schisme ought first to certifie the Pope of the necessity of a Councel and require his consent to haue it in some certain place assembled So did ValentiniaÌ„ and MartiaÌ„ the Emperours to Pope Leo for the Chalcedon So did Constantin the 4. to Pope Agatho for the sixt general Councel The fift point is that the Pope summoneth and calleth al general CouÌ„cels far otherwise theÌ„ do the Emperours For the Pope as the chiefest and as hauiÌ„g power to coÌ„maund ouer al other bisshops for the principality of his priesthood by the power coÌ„mitted to him ouer the vniuersal Church hath to coÌ„maund al faithful ChristiaÌ„s especially bisshops and priests to assemble and mete in Councel But the Emperour exhorteth and inuiteth bisshops but coÌ„maundeth the lay to a Councel And the Canons do coÌ„mauÌ„de that without the Authority of the bisshop of Rome no Councel caÌ„ be holdeÌ„ Not so in the Emperor For the Ephesin coÌ„ueÌ„ticle was disanulled because Leo his legates were reiected though Theodosiê° the yoÌ„ger did coÌ„firm it and allow it So the great CouÌ„cel of AriminuÌ„ was coÌ„demned because Pope Damasus sent not thither though Constantius themperour summoned it and allowed it And the greate CouÌ„cel of Sardica preuailed because by Pope Iulius it was called and allowed though CoÌ„staÌ„tius theÌ„ Emperor resisted it and refused it And thus much for the first beginninges of the CouÌ„cel Now in the CouÌ„cel it self what is the Princes part aÌ„d what the bisshops it shal appeare Let theÌ„ the sixt point be that at the Councel being the Princes office and care ought to be to prouide that altumult aÌ„d dâ—sorder be auoyded and to remoue such as are to be remoued â–ª So did the iudges in the ChalcedoÌ„ CouÌ„cel remoue Dioscorê° froÌ„ the beÌ„ch aÌ„d admit Theodoret the one by pope Leo coÌ„deÌ„ned the other recoÌ„ciled So when the parties waxed warm they did their best to briÌ„g theÌ„ to a calm So did also CoÌ„staÌ„tiÌ„ in his own person in the first Nicene Councel as M. Horne hath himself alleaged and as Eusebius reporteth Seuenthly the Lay Magistrates or Princes being placed in the Councel in the roomes of Emperours and kings Non habent vocem Synodicam sed solum audire debent haue no voice as a parte of the Synod but oÌ„ly are there to heare This practise is clere in al the Councels as it shall appere in the particulars hereafter The iudges therefore and Princes delegates mencioned in the Chalcedon and other Councels are in the Councels much after a sorte as the Speaker in our Parliaments To open and set forth to the Councel all matters to be treated vpon To appointe by the aduise of the Councel the next metings to breake of the present session to promulge the Councels SeÌ„tence and such like matters as belong to more orderlye and quiet proceding in al things Eightly the force and Vigour of the Sentence in CouÌ„cel dependeth only of the Bisshops which make the CouÌ„cel non ex Imperiali commissione and not of the Emperours Commission whose Authority is inferiour to the Synod saieth Cusanus And so the Continuall practise will proue Ninthly the Emperour the Princes and their Oratours do subscribe as witnesses of that is done but as iudging and determining only the bisshops in all Councels haue subscribed Tenthly for the ende and consummation of all Councels the Emperours and Princes ought to prouide that such things as are decreed and determined by the holy Councels
And to begyn with the first action of the said Councel and to followe M. Hornes steppes with a litle tracing ther sterteth vp at the first I will speake with the least a brace of lyes besyde other vaine and impertinent talke Of hys Iudges whereby he woulde haue the Reader to thinke that these noble men were Iudges in the decision and determination of matters ecclesiastical he commeth altogether to short as ye shal anon vnderstande And therefore this shall be the first lye The second lye is that he saieth The Emperour prescribed a forme after which they muste determine the matters in controuersie For in al the Actes of that Councell there appeareth no such fourme or prescription made It is vsual with M. Horne in euery Councel to report such a prescription But as he hath often saied it so hath he not once proued it or shewed it by any one Authority but his owne which is a singular authoritye to lye as lewedly allmost as M. Iewell Yet to bleare the Readers eye and to seame handsomly to furnish his matter by some president and example he layeth forth for his proufe that these Iudges gaue sentence to depose Dioscorus the Patriarche of Alexandria and others This is alltogether false For firste they were no competent and ordinary Iudges being mere laye men especially in causes ecclesiastical to depose a Bishoppe Secondlye puttyng the case they had bene lawefull and ordinarye Iudges yet was yt no finall and iudiciall sentence For a final sentēce must decide and determine the matter by an absolut cōdemnatiō or absolution which was not done here this pretensed sentence being as your selfe write cōditional So that this their iudgment semed good to the Emperour to whom they referred the whole matter And here by the waye falleth out an other vntruth for the Nobles them selues doe not cal this saying a Iudgemēt but say yt semeth vnto vs iust Which words by lawe importe no final iudgemēt Fourthly and laste this was no iudgemente neither was Dioscorus deposed here in this action for in the beginning of the next action the Iudges confesse that sentence was not yet geuen vppon Dioscorus but in the thirde action and that not by theis Iudges as ye cal them but by Pope Leo his deputies and the residew of the Bishoppes without any referring of the matter to th' Emperor as the Iudges doe here The rest ye talk of in this place is of no weight and yf it weyeth anie thing yt weieth against you as Marcians oration whych tendeth to this that in new questions and dissensions of religion we must haue a speciall regard to the doctrine teaching and writing of the former fathers and coūcels which rule and forme of Iudgemēt prescribed by him you quit left out as a rule in dede importing a plaine destructiō of your new gospel Now if the making of an oration by a lay man imploieth any authority voice or iuriseictiō in the Coūcell then were many lay men the ambassadours for their Princes that made orations there yea and found many faultes to in the Church and desired the reformation of them members and Iudges of the late Councel of Trent which is notoriously false and so is that also that ye write of the noble men at Chalcedo And whereas they founde faulte wyth the populare acclamations of the Bishoppes which of a great zele to the catholik faith cried out against Dioscorus and other that deposed the godly Bishop Flauianus and that they would not receiue Theodoretus nor heare such matters as he had to propose because he for the time helde against Cyrillus and other Catholikes and that these noble men endeuoured to set an order and quietnes among them doth plainly shew wherein these noble mens office did rest as nothing touching the definition of anye matter spiritual but to prouide that al things might be don with order indifferency and quietnes For if a man consider what disorder tumulte crueltie yea and murder too fell in the second Ephesin Councell whiche customably is rather called a Conuenticle and a cōspiracy for the maintenaunce whereof ye make Theodosius a very godly Emperour and how that Dioscorus and his cōfederats would not suffer the Catholique Bishops Notaries as the manner was to write the actes there done but thrusted them out and put in Notaries of his owne at his pleasure howe he came to the other notaries and brake their wrytinges and fingers to howe that he forced the bishops to subscribe to a blanke that is in cleane paper wherein nothyng was writen howe that Dioscorus would not suffer the epistle of Leo the Pope sent to the Councel to be read and finally howe that he slewe the blessed Bishop Flauianus he that I say cōsidereth and wel weigheth the premisses and that a great numbre of those schismatical bishops were also with Dioscorus at Chalcedo shal sone perceue what nede there was of these noble mens assistance that they might wel haue to doe there thoughe not in ruling and iudging any spiritual matter yet in the indifferent ruling and direction of the Catholike Bishopes external doings and to see that al things might procede with quietnesse and without parcialitie Which answere ones made will serue also for many other General Councels But what a wicked Cham are you M. Horne that reueale to the common people in your vulgare bookes the faults and disorders of your most holy and reuerent Fathers the Fathers of so famous and so learned a Councell Verely Constantine the Greate that noble Emperour would cast his Imperiall garment he said to hyde a Bisshops faulte if by chaunce he should see any And becommeth it your vocation bearing the roume of a Bisshop your self to tel the people of the Bisshops whot scholes of their want of modestie and of ouershoting them selues You a Bishop of Gods Church Nay your sprit sheweth it selfe more bucherly then Bishoply and as mete to carie a rake as a Rochet M. Horne The .49 Diuision pag. 32. a. In the next action the Iudges and Senate after rehersall made vvhat vvas done before dooe propounde vnto the Synode vvhat matters vvere novv to be consulted of and vvilleth them to make a pure exposition of the faith and that vvithout any sinister affection declaring that the Emperour and they did firmely kepe and beleue according to the faith receiued in the Nicen Councel vvherevnto the Bisshops also accorde and saith that noman maketh or may attempt to make any other exposition Certaine of the Synode desired to heare the Symbol of the Nicen Councel recited which the Senate and Iudges graunted vnto them Stapleton By this also it may easely be sene wherein the duety and office of these Ciuil Magistrats did stād videl to see the Bishops requests of reading this booke or that booke this euidence or that euidence put in execution And so it maketh rather against M. Horne then with him M. Horne The .50 Diuision Pag. 32. a. After
that it vvas agreed vpon by the vvhole Synode that Dioscorus should be deposed the Synode vvriteth vnto the Emperours Valentinianus and Martianus saiyng in this fourme Grieuous diseases neadeth both a stronge medicine and a wise Physition For this cause therfore the Lord ouer al hath appointed your godlines as the best and chiefe Phisition ouer the diseases of the whole world that you should heale them with fitte medicines And you most Christian Emperours receiuing commaundemeÌ„t froÌ„ God aboue other men haue geuen competent diligence for the churches framing a medicine of coÌ„cord vnto the Bishops .147 This thus in vvay of Preface said they declare vvhat they haue done touching Dioscorus they shevve the cause and reasons that moued them thervnto both that the Emperour shoulde consider his vvickednesse and also the sinceritie of their sentence Stapleton Now loe M. Fekenham must nedes yeld and geue ouer For euen the whole CouÌ„cel to the number of .630 Bishops doth confesse saith M. Horne the princes supremacy in causes ecclesiastical it is wel it is not yet in al causes Ecclesiastical And therefore this note is fastened in the Margente as it were with a tenpeny naile and yet al not worth a hedlesse pinne For I beseech you Maister Horne howe can this notable conclusion of yours take anye anker holde of any saiyngs of the Councell by you here alleaged How farre and how deaply your sharpe sight can pearce I know not But for my part I must confesse my selfe so blind that I can see no cause in the world why ye should furnish your margent with such a iolie note Wel I perceiue euery maÌ„ can not see through a milstone But yet eyther my sight and my braine to faileth mee or all this great prouf standeth in this that the Councell calleth the Emperours the best and chiefe physitions ouer the disseases of the world for framing a medicine of concorde to the Bisshops By my trowth it is wel and worshipfully concluded and ye were worthy at the least to be made a poticarie for your labour Sauing that it is to be feared if ye shuld procede on the body as ye doe nowe with the soule ye woulde kil manie a poore mans bodie with your olde rotten drugges as ye do now kill many a sowle with your pestiferous poysoned drawght of heretical potions they take at your hands But nowe to answere to you and to your so farre fette phisike I pray yow M. Horne why doe ye cut of the tayle of your owne tale Why do ye not suffer the fathers to speake their whole mind And to ruffle a litle in M. Iewells rhetorycke what were the fathers stayed with the choygnecoughe and forced to breake of they re matter and tale in the myddest Mark well gentle reader and thow shal see the whole CouÌ„cel of .630 bisshops set to schole and kept in awe and not suffred to vtter one worde more then M. Horne will geue them leaue For the next wordes that immediatly followe in the same matter are these Pontificibus coÌ„cordiae medicinaÌ„ machinantes vndique enim nos congregantes omne commodastis auxilium quatenus factae interimantur discordiae paternae fidei doctrina roboretur For yow say the fathers to the Emperours assembling vs from all places haue holpen al that may be to pacify and kil these diuisions and dissensions and that the fayth and doctrine of our fathers may be strenghthened What worde is here M. Horne that any thing towcheth your purpose Here is nothing but that the couÌ„cel was assembled by their good help which as I haue often declared serueth not your turne to make them supreame heads Nowe because throwgh their meanes the Councell came together in the whiche a quietnesse was set in religion the Councell calleth them physitions yea and the chiefe as they were chiefe in dede in respecte of their cyuill authoritie wherewythe they did assiste the Councel and did helpe by this ministerie of theirs not by anie iudicial sentence or other Ecclesiasticall acte which ye shal neuer shewe to quiet and pacefie the greate dissensions then raigning and raging And so were they phisitions in dede but the outwarde not the inward phisitions The fathers were the inwarde phisitions They made the verye potion for the disease And because we are ons entred into the talke of phisitions they were the very phisitions of the sowle The scripture saieth of the king regem honorificate honour the kinge yt saieth also of the phisition honora medicum Honour the phisition But what sayeth yt of the prieste The priestes sayeth S. Paule that gouuerne well are worthy of double honour againe obeye your rulers meaninge the Ecclesiasticall rulers for they watche to geue a reckoning for your sowles And the Ecclesiasticus sayeth humble thy sowle to the preste So that ye may see M. Horne the priestes to be the true and highest phisitions as farre passing and exceding the other physitions as the sowle passeth and excedeth the bodie and then must the spirituall primacye nedes remayne in them And that doe these Iudges here euen in this Action expressely proteste and confesse against you For they say touching the point of doctrine then in question Quod placuit reuerendo Concilio de sancta fide ipsum nos doceat Let the Reuerend Councel it selfe teach vs and infourme vs what is their pleasure touching the holy faith You see here they toke no suprem gouernemente in this cause ecclesiastical in determining I say the true faith as you will make Princes beleue they may and ought to doe they yet being the Emperours deputies but lerned humbly of the holy Councel what their determination in such matters was Thus at the length your great mighty â—ost is thwyghted to a pudding pryck Neither shal ye be able of al theis .630 bishops to bring one that mayntained your pretensed supremacy And when he proueth yt to you good reader by theis 630. bisshops or by anie one of them I dare say M. FekeÌ„ham wil take the oth and so wil I to For it is as true as the nobles gaue senteÌ„ce to depose Dioscorus and others Who is not as yet deposed and that wil I proue by M. Horne him self who sayth that in this actioÌ„ the whole synode agreed that Dioscorus should be deposed and so ful pretely doth he cal back that he sayd not fyftene lynes before and proueth him self against him self that their saying was no sentence M. Horne 51. Diuision Pag. 32. b. In the fourth Action vvhen the rehearsall of al things passed before vvas done the Iudges and Senate asketh if all the Bisshops agree vvhervnto they ansvvered yea yea The Synode had requested the Iudges and the Senate to make suite to the Emperour for fiue Bisshops vvhich othervvise .148 must be deposed as vvas Dioscorus vvhich they did and made this relation vnto the Synode That the Emperour perceiuing the humble suite of the Synod doth licence them to determine