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book_n good_a read_v see_v 2,579 5 3.2518 3 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A18080 The second replie of Thomas Cartwright: agaynst Maister Doctor Whitgiftes second answer, touching the Churche discipline Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603. 1575 (1575) STC 4714; ESTC S107569 585,778 717

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travail_v far_o to_o have_v see_v how_o far_o i_o be_o from_o popery_n in_o in_o this_o point_n if_o he_o will_v have_v but_o consider_v the_o word_n which_o follow_v in_o the_o same_o division_n that_o god_n have_v set_v before_o we_o in_o his_o word_n a_o perfect_a patron_n off_o his_o church_n but_o i_o be_v at_o jest_n oversee_v in_o this_o kind_n off_o speech_n alas_o if_o he_o will_v understand_v his_o grammar_n and_o acknowledge_v that_o which_o simple_a scholar_n off_o the_o grammar_n school_n do_v well_o know_v that_o their_o be_v difference_n between_o express_v and_o contain_v between_o express_v and_o include_v between_o express_v and_o imply_v between_o express_v and_o gather_v he_o will_v never_o have_v trouble_v the_o reader_n with_o such_o folly_n and_o as_o for_o that_o which_o i_o set_v down_o i_o do_v it_o upon_o good_a ground_n for_o who_o be_v there_o which_o know_v not_o that_z these_o thing_n that_o there_o be_v one_o essence_n and_o three_o person_n in_o the_o godhead_n that_o there_o be_v in_o our_o saviour_n christ_n one_o parson_n and_o two_o nature_n be_v not_o express_v but_o only_o contain_v in_o the_o word_n off_o god_n and_o if_o proof_n must_v be_v have_v off_o thing_n which_o be_v to_o great_a shame_n for_o one_o that_o cariethe_v the_o title_n off_o a_o divine_a to_o be_v ignorant_a off_o let_v the_o answerer_n know_v that_o learn_v divine_n speak_v after_o this_o sort_n their_o word_n be_v these_o off_o the_o father_n of_o the_o ratilboncusia_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n there_o be_v one_o nature_n one_o essence_n and_o three_o person_n in_o christ_n our_o lord_n there_o be_v two_o nature_n and_o one_o person_n and_o many_o other_o thing_n which_o the_o catholic_a church_n do_v receive_v rather_o lay_v out_o by_o the_o interpretation_n implicida_fw-la
examination_n 133._o be_v necessary_a for_o a_o deacon_n it_o be_v much_o more_o necessary_a for_o the_o minister_n against_o that_o he_o say_v that_o the_o fix_v off_o the_o act_n can_v not_o serve_v to_o prove_v any_o thing_n touch_v the_o minister_n election_n because_o it_o be_v off_o deacon_n he_o answer_v not_o but_o pass_v by_o quiet_o and_o make_v no_o word_n but_o his_o other_o say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o mention_n make_v off_o any_o trial_n he_o hold_v still_o for_o good_a ask_v i_o what_o one_o word_n off_o trial_n be_v there_o i_o answer_v that_o albeit_o there_o be_v not_o this_o word_n try_v yet_o there_o be_v that_o which_o weigh_v as_o much_o for_o the_o greake_fw-mi word_n look_v 〈◊〉_d owte_n can_v not_o be_v sever_v from_o a_o trial_n and_o if_o s._n luke_n have_v but_o use_v the_o simple_a verb_n which_o in_o our_o tongue_n signify_v consider_v yet_o that_o off_o it_o self_n have_v force_v to_o have_v lead_v the_o chooser_n to_o a_o trial_n off_o they_o which_o be_v to_o be_v choose_v now_o use_v the_o compound_n thereby_o he_o lay_v upon_o they_o a_o great_a necessity_n and_o a_o more_o careful_a diligence_n off_o trial_n off_o they_o where_o if_o the_o apostle_n have_v not_o ment_fw-la hereby_o to_o have_v call_v the_o church_n to_o a_o diligent_a serche_fw-fr and_o trial_n off_o those_o which_o be_v to_o be_v choose_v they_o will_v have_v content_v themselves_o to_o have_v say_a take_v from_o amongst_o you_o etc_n etc_n and_o although_o the_o whole_a church_n have_v knowledge_n off_o those_o which_o be_v the_o fit_a to_o be_v choose_v to_o that_o office_n which_o be_v both_o unlike_a and_o almost_o impossible_a see_n there_o be_v certain_a thousand_o off_o late_o add_v unto_o the_o church_n yet_o even_o those_o which_o be_v well_o know_v unto_o we_o when_o they_o be_v to_o be_v choose_v unto_o such_o great_a charge_n be_v to_o be_v inquire_v into_o a_o fresh_a for_o that_o knowledge_n off_o a_o man_n which_o be_v sufficient_a for_o we_o to_o live_v with_o he_o in_o private_a society_n and_o common_a course_n off_o life_n be_v not_o enough_o to_o promote_v he_o to_o such_o a_o dignity_n in_o the_o church_n and_o that_o experience_v off_o one_o upon_o confidence_n whereof_o we_o dare_v trust_v he_o with_o our_o weighty_a affair_n be_v not_o sufficient_a thereupon_o to_o commit_v unto_o he_o the_o lord_n matter_n so_o that_o consider_v the_o weight_n off_o a_o ecclesiastical_a office_n the_o manifold_a crevice_n off_o man_n dissimulation_n with_o the_o dullness_n off_o our_o sight_n to_o espy_v they_o there_o can_v be_v no_o fear_n off_o too_o much_o trial_n even_o off_o those_o which_o we_o think_v we_o know_v already_o and_o therefore_o although_o the_o whole_a church_n have_v knowledge_n off_o those_o which_o be_v apt_a for_o that_o office_n yet_o the_o apostle_n admonition_n off_z diligent_a consider_v who_o they_o choose_v which_o can_v not_o be_v without_o trial_n be_v not_o out_o off_o time_n again_o that_o the_o 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leave_v to_o every_o one_o to_o consider_v howbeit_o the_o word_n which_o i_o allege_v out_o off_o it_o where_o speak_v to_o the_o archedeacons_n he_o say_v take_v heed_n 25._o that_o the_o person_n who_o you_o present_v unto_o we_o be_v apre_a and_o meers_o etc_n etc_n declare_v that_o the_o bishop_n pass_v his_o election_n upon_o the_o only_a examination_n off_o his_o archedeacon_n but_o it_o make_v no_o great_a matter_n how_o many_o examine_v see_n the_o election_n and_o ordination_n hang_v only_o upon_o the_o bishop_n pleasure_n and_o he_o partly_o see_n that_o all_o the_o matter_n stand_v in_o the_o courteousie_n off_o the_o bishop_n and_o partly_o as_o it_o seem_v will_v that_o that_o gowlfe_n shall_v swallow_v up_o all_o other_o man_n interreste_n in_o this_o election_n set_v himself_o to_o prove_v it_o and_o where_o as_o i_o allege_v that_o it_o be_v not_o safe_a in_o so_o weighty_a a_o matter_n to_o commit_v that_o to_o the_o power_n of_o one_o which_o may_v be_v with_o less_o 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off_o the_o left_a i_o do_v not_o here_o take_v exception_n against_o the_o long_a experience_n in_o these_o thing_n which_o he_o say_v the_o bishop_n have_v yet_o he_o can_v have_v it_o at_o his_o first_o orderinge_v of_o minister_n and_o other_o may_v have_v it_o as_o well_o as_o he_o if_o the_o examination_n be_v as_o well_o permit_v unto_o they_o as_z unto_o he_o i_o meddle_v not_o also_o with_o the_o bishop_n either_o sound_o learning_n or_o rule_v affection_n which_o what_o they_o be_v in_o some_o be_v well_o know_v what_o they_o may_v be_v consider_v that_o they_o be_v not_o tie_v to_o the_o rochet_n it_o be_v easy_a to_o be_v consider_v let_v he_o be_v as_o well_o experience_v learned_a affect_a as_o such_o a_o bishop_n may_v be_v yet_o have_v he_o win_v nothing_o by_o all_o this_o but_o that_o the_o bishop_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v shute_z out_o in_o this_o examination_n where_o he_o say_v sure_o if_o any_o one_o man_n or_o more_o be_v void_a off_o such_o affefection_n and_o 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the_o life_n to_o come_v may_v be_v so_o hazard_v nay_o for_o so_o much_o as_o man_n insight_n into_o civil_a affair_n and_o judgement_n in_o they_o be_v sharp_a than_o in_o matter_n pertain_v to_o the_o church_n it_o be_v clear_a that_o there_o you_o more_o help_v require_v in_o these_o then_z in_o the_o other_o beside_o that_o when_o as_o prince_n by_o take_v counsel_n unto_o they_o in_o their_o weighty_a affair_n off_o the_o whole_a realm_n and_o for_o better_a decide_n off_o private_a man_n cause_n appoint_v whole_a be●ches_n off_o justice_n stand_v off_o five_o or_o six_o they_o do_v sufficient_o declare_v thereby_o how_o they_o have_v the_o judgement_n off_o one_o be_v he_o never_o so_o wise_a
some_o reason_n and_o will_v you_o cast_v it_o away_o with_o a_o word_n but_o the_o order_n of_o try_v his_o gift_n off_o expound_v be_v good_a and_o for_o the_o most_o part_n necessary_a for_o althowghe_o it_o may_v be_v perceive_v by_o question_v short_o with_o he_o what_o his_o understanding_n be_v in_o the_o mystery_n off_o christ_n yet_o his_o utterance_n disposition_n and_o memory_n gift_n necessary_a for_o a_o minister_n can_v not_o be_v try_v but_o by_o such_o a_o proof_n or_o by_o long_a acquaintance_n with_o he_o which_o can_v be_v seldom_o between_o the_o ordeiner_n and_o he_o that_o be_v to_o be_v ordain_v and_o if_o in_o well_o order_v city_n the_fw-mi be_v no_o man_n admit_v to_o set_v up_o in_o any_o mystery_n unless_o he_o have_v offer_v to_o the_o master_n off_o the_o company_n some_o work_v for_o a_o masterpiece_n and_o declaration_n that_o he_o have_v skill_n in_o that_o he_o will_v open_v his_o shop_n for_o how_o much_o more_o in_o the_o ministry_n off_o god_n 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but_o to_o no_o purpose_n for_o when_o our_o saviour_n bid_v the_o jew_n search_v the_o scripture_n he_o refer_v they_o by_o that_o search_n to_o judge_v off_o the_o doctrine_n he_o have_v preach_v before_o which_o prove_v no_o fruit_n off_o read_v when_o there_o be_v no_o preach_v beside_o that_o it_o will_v be_v hard_a for_o he_o to_o refer_v the_o word_n search_n to_o read_v only_o as_o if_o one_o can_v not_o search_v the_o scripture_n when_o he_o attend_v to_o they_o allege_v in_o sermon_n yea_o he_o be_v confute_v by_o the_o place_n himself_o have_v allege_v where_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o the_o scripture_n red_z in_o respect_v off_o make_v the_o hearer_n more_o apt_a to_o discern_v off_o preach_v be_v better_o than_o preach_v for_o when_o the_o apostle_n teach_v the_o galatian_n to_o hold_v they_o accurse_a which_o preach_v other_o doctrine_n than_o they_o have_v receive_v by_o his_o preach_n he_o do_v flat_o make_v his_o preach_n 9_o the_o rule_n to_o examine_v other_o 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unto_o the_o first_o and_o second_o division_n be_v beside_o the_o question_n i_o answer_v nothing_o before_o i_o come_v to_o the_o third_o tract_n forsomuch_o as_o the_o place_n off_o the_o evangelist_n which_o be_v before_o be_v general_a and_o strike_v at_o all_o the_o lofty_a and_o swell_a title_n off_o the_o ministry_n i_o will_v set_v it_o here_o down_o in_o the_o forward_a off_o the_o reason_n browghte_v against_o the_o name_n off_o archbishope_n etc_n etc_n as_o that_o which_o speak_v against_o all_o the_o smoky_a name_n must_v needs_o comprehend_v these_o in_o the_o d._n answer_v therefore_o whereby_o he_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v that_o these_o word_n gracious_a or_o bountiful_a 25_o lord_n make_v nothing_o against_o the_o great_a name_n and_o magnifical_a title_n off_o the_o minister_n this_o be_v the_o first_o that_o saint_n mark_v and_o muthewe_n have_v no_o word_n bear_v any_o such_o sense_n whereunto_o i_o answer_v that_z as_o it_o be_v a_o general_a rule_n almost_o throwghowte_n the_o scripture_n that_o repetition_n be_v not_o without_o some_o usury_n and_o increase_v so_o in_o the_o write_n of_o the_o evangelist_n it_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v almost_o every_o where_o and_o therefore_o it_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v be_v strange_a if_o other_o evangelist_n speak_v off_o the_o authority_n only_o s._n luke_n add_v also_o touch_v the_o title_n second_o he_o answer_v this_o clawse_v it_o shall_v not_o be_v so_o with_o you_o be_v not_o refer_v unto_o those_o word_n be_v call_v bountiful_a and_o beneficial_a but_o unto_o ambition_n and_o tyrannical_a dominion_n only_o whereunto_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o forsomuch_o as_o the_o thing_n there_o affirm_v of_o the_o minister_n and_o the_o word_n off_o gracious_a lord_n be_v as_o well_o affirm_v 〈◊〉_d off_o king_n as_o the_o word_n off_o bear_v dominion_n therefore_o those_o word_n it_o shall_v not_o be_v so_o
by_o that_o beza_n write_v upon_o these_o word_n he_o give_v all_o these_o which_o believe_v in_o he_o this_o dignity_n or_o prerogative_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v call_v the_o child_n off_o god._n john_n now_o what_o this_o dignity_n and_o preeminence_n be_v may_v easy_o be_v see_v by_o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v 〈◊〉_d preeminence_n or_o dignity_n over_o the_o bishop_n off_o constantinopel_v alexandria_n etc_n etc_n have_v nothing_o thereby_o more_o than_o they_o save_v only_o the_o first_o place_n in_o their_o meeting_n see_v therefore_o these_o word_n translate_v to_o have_v power_n signify_v nothing_o but_o to_o have_v honour_n which_o consist_v only_o in_o have_v the_o high_a place_n by_o these_o word_n off_o the_o council_n grow_v nothing_o to_o the_o metropolitan_a but_o only_o to_o sit_v in_o the_o high_a place_n at_o meeting_n this_o may_v also_o appear_v by_o the_o same_o h_o council_n 5._o where_o it_o be_v say_v that_o if_o there_o rise_v disorder_n in_o any_o church_n which_o be_v not_o compound_v it_o ought_v to_o be_v decide_v at_o the_o provincial_a council_n which_o be_v therefore_o to_o be_v hold_v twice_o every_o year_n in_o which_o fault_n be_v to_o be_v correct_v not_o by_o the_o metropolitan_a but_o by_o the_o bishop_n together_o and_o because_o the_o council_n here_o refer_v we_o to_o that_o accoustomed_a before_o it_o be_v to_o be_v consider_v what_o that_o be_v so_o far_o as_o we_o have_v testimony_n the_o bishop_n assemble_v at_o nice_n bring_v their_o quarrel_n one_o against_o a_o other_o const_n and_o offer_v they_o to_o the_o emperor_n which_o they_o will_v not_o have_v do_v at_o least_o so_o general_o if_o there_o have_v be_v any_o such_o order_n take_v off_o refer_v their_o debate_n to_o the_o metropolitan_a the_o emperor_n likewise_o receive_v their_o bill_n and_o answer_v that_o it_o pertain_v 17._o not_o unto_o he_o to_o decide_v those_o matter_n send_v they_o not_o to_o their_o metropolitan_n to_o be_v judge_v but_o adiourn_v they_o to_o the_o judgement_n off_o god_n yet_o if_o there_o have_v be_v any_o such_o authority_n ecclesiastical_a off_o the_o metropolitan_n the_o emperor_n as_z he_o be_v very_o religious_a in_o those_o observation_n will_v not_o by_o all_o likelihood_n have_v fail_v in_o that_o likewise_o write_v joint_o to_o alexander_n bishop_n and_o arius_n elder_a off_o alexandria_n amongst_o other_o thing_n he_o say_v it_o be_v not_o meet_v they_o shall_v rule_v so_o great_a a_o people_n be_v divide_v among_o themselves_o where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v that_o howsoever_o these_o word_n so_o great_a a_o people_n be_v take_v whether_o for_o the_o church_n off_o alexandria_n or_o for_o all_o agipt_n etc_n etc_n the_o bishop_n govern_v not_o alone_o but_o by_o consent_n and_o advise_v of_o the_o elder_n of_o that_o church_n then_o if_o the_o ans_fw-fr will_v refer_v this_o government_n to_o the_o whole_a country_n off_o egypt_n lybia_n etc_n etc_n and_o take_v it_o in_o that_o signification_n he_o do_v for_o bear_a dominion_n and_o command_v the_o rest_n not_o the_o bishop_n only_o but_o every_o elder_n off_o alexandria_n have_v commandment_n not_o only_o over_o the_o elder_n but_o over_o the_o bishop_n themselves_o off_o other_o church_n which_o if_o it_o be_v absurd_a that_o whereof_o it_o follow_v must_v be_v likewise_o this_o be_v all_o that_o i_o find_v the_o nicene_n council_n give_v to_o the_o metropolitan_a above_o the_o rest_n how_o little_a it_o be_v and_o how_o small_a a_o part_n off_o that_o the_o answ_n presume_v let_v the_o reader_n judge_v that_o he_o ought_v to_o be_v no_o bishop_n which_o be_v make_v without_o consent_v off_o his_o metropolitan_a be_v a_o very_a silly_a prerogative_n see_v it_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n in_o those_o time_n that_o all_o the_o bishop_n off_o the_o province_n shall_v be_v at_o the_o ca._n make_n off_o a_o bishop_n and_o as_o the_o election_n off_o the_o people_n be_v void_a if_o the_o metropolitan_a be_v not_o at_o it_o so_o be_v it_o also_o if_o there_o be_v not_o three_o bishop_n at_o the_o least_o present_a let_v we_o see_v now_o whether_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o metropolitanship_n will_v fall_v out_o any_o more_o fanourable_a for_o this_o pretend_a jurisdiction_n athanasius_n follow_v on_o who_o the_o d._n will_v fasten_v this_o bishopric_n first_o because_o ischaras_fw-mi submit_v himself_o unto_o he_o by_o letter_n as_o if_o every_o one_o which_o have_v offend_v a_o other_o do_v by_o his_o submission_n acknowledge_v he_o a_o archbishop_n who_o he_o have_v offend_v and_o as_o if_o ischaras_fw-mi ought_v not_o to_o have_v do_v as_o much_o unto_o any_o bishop_n in_o the_o province_n if_o he_o have_v belong_v unto_o his_o parish_n as_z he_o do_v unto_o that_o of_o athanasius_n second_o because_o arsenius_n and_o those_o off_o his_o diocese_n write_v letter_n off_o submission_n unto_o athanasius_n the_o print_n off_o the_o diocese_n be_v so_o deep_o set_v in_o the_o d._n head_n that_o what_o soever_o he_o meet_v with_o he_o turn_v into_o it_o for_o there_o be_v there_o no_o mention_n off_o diocese_n but_o off_o a_o city_n as_o for_o the_o submission_n he_o make_v it_o be_v not_o to_o athanasius_n but_o unto_o the_o ecclesiastisticall_a canon_n only_o he_o acknowledge_v he_o metropolitan_a and_o that_o without_o his_o sentence_n he_o will_v make_v no_o ecclesiastical_a decree_n pertain_v unto_o the_o church_n which_o we_o deny_v not_o for_o we_o confess_v 2._o that_o there_o be_v then_o metropolitan_n and_o as_o arsenius_n can_v not_o make_v any_o decree_n to_o wch_v the_o whole_a church_n in_o the_o province_n no_o more_o can_v athanasius_n without_o arsenius_n as_o have_v be_v before_o out_o off_o the_o former_a book_n declare_v but_o that_o he_o be_v subject_n unto_o athanasius_n there_o be_v not_o a_o word_n the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v to_o be_v plain_o see_v for_o arsenius_n in_o his_o fare_n well_o write_v thus_o we_o and_o those_o with_o we_o salute_v the_o whole_a company_n off_o sacred_a man_n which_o be_v in_o thy_o jurisdiction_n by_o which_o word_n he_o manifest_o exempt_v himself_o from_o the_o jurisdiction_n off_o athanasius_n whereupon_o it_o must_v follow_v that_o the_o office_n off_o metropolitaneship_n in_o those_o day_n imply_v no_o subjection_n nor_o authority_n to_o command_v over_o other_o bishop_n in_o his_o province_n and_o athanasius_n in_o call_v the_o bishop_n there_o his_o fellow_n minister_v often_o time_n declare_v 2._o in_o what_o place_n he_o have_v they_o not_o as_o subject_n but_o as_o his_o fellow_n and_o that_o the_o a._n escape_v not_o with_o that_o popish_a shift_v that_o athanasius_n thereby_o do_v declare_v his_o humility_n it_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o that_o book_n that_o the_o other_o bishop_n do_v more_o than_o half_a a_o dozen_o time_n call_v he_o their_o fellow_n minister_n bare_o without_o other_o title_n now_o if_o athanasin_n not_o off_o right_n but_o off_o his_o great_a humility_n call_v himself_o their_o fellow_n minister_v yet_o the_o other_o bishop_n in_o so_o call_v he_o when_o they_o be_v subject_n unto_o he_o and_o at_o his_o commandment_n be_v to_o be_v charge_v not_o only_o as_o void_v off_o christian_a humility_n but_o also_o as_o forgetful_a even_o off_o all_o come_v civility_n and_o good_a manner_n that_o add_v off_o athanasius_n visit_v off_o mariotes_n and_o the_o province_n there_o as_o they_o be_v call_v pertain_v nothing_o unto_o this_o question_n for_o there_o be_v no_o bishop_n in_o that_o place_n and_o what_o he_o do_v in_o that_o behalf_n do_v not_o as_o archbishop_n but_o as_o bishop_n that_o territory_n belong_v unto_o alexandria_n and_o not_o only_a archbishop_n but_o bishop_n yea_o elder_n visit_v the_o parish_n off_o other_o bishop_n as_o for_o cap._n that_o the_o parish_n in_o the_o territory_n off_o mariotes_n have_v never●_n bishop_n but_o belong_v unto_o athanasius_n beside_o that_o i_o have_v show_v that_o corruption_n have_v great_o prevail_v at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v that_o it_o be_v there_o put_v as_o a_o strange_a thing_n and_o unwonted_a that_o one_o bishop_n shall_v have_v so_o large_a ground_n for_o unless_o that_o be_v the_o autor_n end_n there_o be_v no_o cause_n why_o he_o shall_v have_v use_v that_o kind_n off_o speech_n which_o may_v better_a appear_v forsomuch_o as_o 27._o socrates_n speak_v off_o this_o story_n interlace_v the_o same_o sentence_n when_o as_o speak_v off_o the_o place_n off_o bishop_n else_o where_o he_o never_o mention_v any_o such_o thing_n the_o canon_n off_o arles_n council_n off_o that_o attribute_v unto_o the_o apostle_n and_o of_o antioch_n follow_v the_o first_o have_v nothing_o not_o grant_v and_o serve_v for_o fill_v only_o the_o second_o suppose_a of_o the_o apostle_n be_v 〈◊〉_d the_o same_o with_o that_o of_o antioch_n that_o off_o