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book_n	form_n	prayer_n	use_v	4,815	5	5.9954	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93702	Rome ruin'd by VVhite Hall, or, The papall crown demolisht: containing a confutation of the three degrees of popery, viz. papacy, prelacy, and presbitery; answerable to the triple crowne of the three-headed Cerberus the Pope, with his three fold hierarchies aforesaid. With a dispelling of all other dispersed clouds of errour, which doth interpose the clear sun-shine of the Gospel in our horrizon. Wherein the chiefe arguments each of them have, for the vindication of their erronious tenents are incerted, and refuted; with a description of such whem [sic] the true Church of Christ doth consist of: as also how, and by whom, they may be gathered, and governed, according to the will, and appointment of Jesus Christ, and his apostles, in the primative purity thereof. / By Iohn Spittlehouse, assistant to the Marshall Generall of the Army, under the command of his Excellency, the Lord Generall Fairfax. Imprimated by Theod. Jennings, and entred in the Stationers Hall.	Spittlehouse, John.	1649 (1649)	Wing S5013; Thomason E586_2; ESTC R203633	304,213	396

to exclude all prayer in the Spirit alone that is without words or distinct voyce which is lawfull and oftentimes used by the people of God as we may read Exo. 14. 25. Neh. 2. 4. 1 Sam. 1. 13. Rom. 8. 26 27. Again the heads of that prayer is generall so that no man can apply them aright without some speciall relation or application to his or their particular estate and condition Christ therefore prescribed that forme of prayer that it should be a rule and patterne to make our prayers and supplications by and hath not commanded to use or promiseth to accept of such Prayers as are framed by mans invention but only such as proceed from the Spirit Now in regard the Booke of Common Prayer hath been the The Common Prayer-book the chief cause of the difference betwixt us chiefe cause of the difference betwixt them who terme themselves Protestants or rather Prelatticants and us who terme our selves Christians I am the more induced to treat of it at large hoping that the Lord wil so eluminate their understanding that they wil duly and seriously consider of their opinions and renounce their errours which the Lord in mercy grant SECT 3. IN the first place I wil shew them what Prayer is the holy The deffinition of Prayer men of God doe define Prayer to be the interpreter of the minde Non vox sed votum as one saith the wings wherewith our Soules doe fly to heaven as swife as Cannot Shot out of a Camon the Key of the Gates of heaven that which either early or late findeth admittance that which forceth an audience and unlocketh the ●ares of God himselfe It is also defined to be a calling upon God by celestiall cogitations of which there be Two sorts of prayer mental and vocall two sorts 1. Mentall or that which is not uttered by the tongue but by the minde and this sort of Prayer is called ejaculatory prayer by which the people of God dart up their requests through silence of speech the second sort is vocall or that which is expressed by speech or words For the first of these we have many examples in Scripture as in Of mentall P●ayer Moses Exo. 14. 15. where the Lord saith unto him Why cryest thou unto me c. whereas Moses is not said to utter any voyce but sighed unto God and cryed in his heart whereupon one saith Egit vocis silentia ut corde clamarit he in the silence of his voyce so wrought that he cryed in his heart We have another example in Hannah 1 Sam. 1. 13. in these words Now Hannah she spake in her heart only her lips moved but her voyce was not heard We have also another example in Jehoshaphat who when he was compassed with the Assyrians is said to cry out unto the● Lord which probably was not vocally but mentally 2 Cor. 18. 31. so that the lifting up of the voyce is not the most necessary part of Prayer but the sorrow and contrition of the heart and therefore the Lord saith by his Prophets Before they call I will answer to their secret requests and enward grievances of their heart And this is most probable for God being a Spirit wil especially be invocated by the spirituall part of man Joh. 4. 24. and contrariwise abhorreth those that come neare unto him with their lips their hearts being farre from him Mat. 15. 7 8. now with such as have the Spirit of God this sort of Prayer is much used for by it we may pray upon all occasions unknown unto the world by lifting up pure hearts unto the Lord in reference to which commeth this saying Pii ●rat tassatie good men pray in silence SECT 4. THe other manner of Prayer is vocall that is when the O● Prayer tongue expresseth and uttereth the desires of the heart either of which being produced from a true and a lively faith in Christ is so prevalent with God that they procure our wished desires so farre as the Lord knoweth it needfull for us according to the promise of our Saviour Aske and ye shall receive as also the Lord by the Prophet Call upon me in the time of trouble and I will heare thee Now as there be two sorts of Prayer viz. a Naturall man and Two sorts of men v●z a. naturall man and a spirituall man a Spirituall man of which two sorts of people the world doth consist and they are utterly opposite the one to the other as light and darknesse Heaven and Hell Christ and Beliall As for the Naturall man in regard he would not absolutely declare himselfe to be an Athiest in respect he seeth so many in the world that doe acknowledge that there is a God therefore for fashion sake he wil also have a way and rule to worship God by which shall suite with his condition and to this purpose he doth furnish himselfe with all materials Cap a pea as may conduce to his humour viz. He wil have a Church but they shall consist of his owne fraternity who shall scorne the very name of a Saint ye hate him more then a Devil 2. They wil have a place to meet in as others but it must be The naturall mans humour decked adorned and beautified with whatsoever seemeth delectable and pleasant to the sence for being sensuall themselves and having no other understanding therefore they place their delight meerly in sensuall things as the Apostle testifieth at large Rom. 8. 5. so that if they preach or heare a Sermond it must be if possible the quintesence of Eloquence If they pray it must be in a studied set speech in choyce Oratory their Priests being attired like Havest Dames c. and thus in all their worship doe they expresse themselves to be carnall-minded men and such as the Apostle declareth to be at enmity with God which doth fully appeare by their Serpentine like hate to all such as goe about to disswade them from their folly and madnesse and this they doe in regard they would seeme somewhat religious cannot perform it in another way it being contrary to their game SECT 5. Obj. VVHy doe you endeavour to reclaime them if you can have no other Ans They can doe no other during the time they are in their carnall condition but I hope the Lord hath many amongst them The d●spera●e resolutions of some Cavaliers who belong unto him albeit under that vaile of ignorance whom my desire is to disswade from their errours for otherwise I am confident that it is no more possible for a Camell to passe through the eye of a Needle or to make Hell Heaven then to reclaime the other whose desperate resolutions are so apparently manifest Now contrary to this Naturall man there is a Spirituall man The Spiritual mans humour in point of Prayer who is of a quite contrary minde and opinion for whereas the carnall mans judgement is that Prayer although invented by another

themselves Providence is wonderfully seene in that like the Assirians they helpe to ruine one another so that my chiefe worke is to subdue that Hierarchy of Presbitery who hath conquered the other two and now would reigne it selfe in their stead Againe I would have such Sir Johns to know that to fight a publick enemy requireth the publick Magazine both for offensive and defensive Weapons and seeing the Lord hath moved me to be his Churches Champion against that three-headed Monster of the Pope with his threefold Hierarchies of Papacy Prelacy and Presbitery certainly he will allow me as Saul did to David his owne Armour however that I may gather such materials as I shall thinke meet for the incounter in such common places as David did in the Brook which having gathered I therewith advance in the spirit of David towards that Zanzumim or Gyganticall Annakim hoping the Lord of Hosts the only giver of Battels will so prosper the event as that I shall as David did Goliah head him with his own● Weapon and bring them as Trophies to the Campe of our Israel Take notice Rome even in the same WHITE HALL Where here thou had'st thy rise thou hast thy fall A generall Preface to the Booke IN as much as the present designe of Christ by his Spirit which is now to reigne in the Saints is to destroy Antichrist Root a●● Branch and this Antichrist so to be destroyed consisting of the pollutions and delusions of the world the ●lesh and the Devill viz. in the now temporall powers of the world the now various formes of Church Government as also in many fundamentall points of Religion and it being the office of the aforesaid Spirit to convince the world of Sinne of Righteousnesse and of Judgement Joh. 16. 8. viz. Of Sinne in point of fundamentals of Righteousnesse in point of their Pharasaicall glosses by which they colour their Hipocrisie in matter of forme of Judgement in point of the Ti●anicall and Arbitrary powers of the world In reference to which I have suted my Discourse to them three particulars hoping the Reader will ●●ade that conviction as to be perswaded from any further contest with Christ in all or any one of the a●oresaid particulars resident in him in relation to which Christ hath in effect declared that whosoever is not against them or any one of them in any particular of them is assuredly against him The Method I shall observe in this Discourse is by making the first last and the last first viz. I have first endeavoured to convince Errours in fundamentall points of Religion as in relation to the Trinity c. secondly in the formes of it and lastly in the powers opposing Christ in or under them formes I have also used the Scripture method by reproofe and instruction where there is occasion I have also where need requireth composed this Booke by way of Dialogue it being as I conceived the chiefe meanes to convince errours This I presume is sufficient to illuminate your understandings in relation to the scope and intent of the Booke which is here presented unto you I shall only adde this that the Reader would p●ruse the 24. chap. of M●thewes Gospel and parallel it with this present time as also in particular to take notice of the 30. ver viz. Then shall appeare the SIGNE of the Son of Man in Heaven c. To the Assembly of Priests and Lay-Elders who were lately met together as a Provinciall Synod London Novemb. 2 1649. Being a lightning before the finall ruine of their present Hierarchy Gentlemen Presbyters THe reason why I have printed this sheet was because when my book was printed off I hapned to meet with a book published by you titled The Vindication of your Government and Ministry c. which in regard mine being to succeed and not positively intended as an answer to yours I thought it requisite to write some what whereby you may take notice that I have beene at the charge of one of them books so published by you to the end I might discover how farre providence had provided you of an answer to your thoughts before they were either published or penned As also to take notice what that Antichristian Spirit which is yet so predominant in you had dictated unto you as a preparative for its own Ruine and your perpetuall shame and disgrace To which purpose I have taken notice of some passages in your booke which clearely tend to that purpose As first in that great over-sight in not proving you had a Church Did you never heare that the Schismaticks and Hereticks you so much gape to devoure did as well oppose your Church as your Government and Minstry Could you thinke they were now satisfied in the lawfulnesse of it more then formerly viz. That the whole frame of it is Antichristian as also the appurtenances thereunto belonging Certainly you thought your book would have hapned in the hands of none but such silly people you dedicated it unto whom you have so long blinded by your Lucifer-like Lustre or Janes and Jambres-like delusions But if so providence hath otherwise disposed of it to the end you might deceive them no longer It appeares you would gladly now content your selves with them you have under your Churches in London but I hope they have ●ither more wit or grace then to be any longer deluded by you And for the other Sectaries c. they adjure you to beguile your auditors no longer with such vaine pretences and seeming shewes of the purity of your Church-government and Ministry but that you would prove them to be of such like mettall as you boast them to be And that not only as you have done from your infallible tongues pens sic volo sic jubeo or from your old Grandam at Rome but from the institution of Christ and his Apostles not legall or politick observations of the Jewes c. And untill you have so done whsch I am confident you will never doe they are all fooles or mad-men that will harbour a conceit that you have either a true Church-Government or Ministry And therefore in the name of all such as desire to practise Religion in the primitive puritie thereof I pronounce and declare whatsoever you have said in that booke to be of no more esteem than a Castle built in the Aire or a Babell of confusions For where doe you find in the New Testament a Church meerly composed of Officers or any part of the Church termed by the name of Laytie or Lay-Elders Lay-people c. Or where such sorts of people were admitted to Church-fellowship as there was a need to examine them touching their faith before the receipt of the Lords Supper Or where in any Act of Judicature or advice that the brethren were exempted from their vote and consent or had not a joynt interest and concurrence therein Or where read you there of A Classicall Provinciall or Nationall Synod or Nationall Church or of one

if but read over by them or any other is sufficient for the Service of God as indeed it is to that God they worship the Spirituall man he is of another judgement for he saith that true prayer is that which is dictated to the minde by the Holy Ghost and so maketh prayer the voyce of Gods owne Spirit which ariseth from the regenerate part within us being quickned and inlarged to pray from the immediate help of the Holy Ghost and such prayers say they are only acceptable to God and no other Now to know whether of these opinions retaineth the truth it Of the Spirit of God in prayer is requisite to have them to the touch-stone of truth viz. the Word of God which is able to convince all errours and to make them appeare in their naturall colours to which purpose the Apostle Paul is very pertinent in his Epistles as in Rom. 8. 26. where he speaking of the act of Prayer or ●ather the Spirit of God in him saith That the Spirit helpeth our infirmities and that we know not what to pray for as we ought but that the Spirit it selfe maketh intercession for us with sighes and groan●s which are unutterable which he doth also thus further illustrate in the 27 ver viz. And he that searcheth the heart knoweth the minde of the Spirit because he maketh intercession for the Saints according to the will of God SECT 6. FRom whence I thus argue If the intercession of the Saints who are predestinated to salvation be not availeable without the direction and guidance of the Spirit of God as it is evident they are not Instance in holy David who saith If I regard wickednesse in my heart God will not heare my prayer what will become of the other and what better testimony can we have to decide the controversie then when the Holy Ghost himselfe confirmes the point as a witnesse to his owne act their audaciousnesse A set ●o●me of Prayer hath not the Spirit of prayer and stupidity is therefore to be admired who thinke that Prayer and Preaching can availe although the Spirit of God doe not Co-opperate with it for the Holy Ghost teleth us plainly that we know not what to aske without his direction now what direction from the Spirit of God can be imagined in that prayer which is formerly composed by another party then he who readeth or prayeth it or what benefit can be expected from that prayer where the tongue expresseth that which was not formerly conceived in the minde to aske well may they therefore be compared to Steevens uncircumcised Jewes in that they still resist and flatly deny the motions of the Spirit of God in the act of prayer Again the Children of God have sundry occasions to pray unto God by reason of their manifold temptations by the flesh the world and the Devill which doe warre continually against the Spirit now let any judicious man censure whether a childe of God findeth greater comfort in expressing his misery and unfeigned repentance being moved thereunto by the Spirit of him to whom he prayeth rather then to expresse himselfe by such a prayer as is invented by another man Again what prayer can be more acceptable to God then when he is invocated by a penitent sinner who is dictated what to aske by the Spirit of him to whom he prayeth certainly then we ought rather to joyne our selves with the Spirit of God rather then the spirits of men SECT 7. Obj. SVch as pray by the Spirit use Tautollogies and vaine repetitions in their prayers Ans God doth not give the measure of his Spirit to his Children by equall proportions but to some more to some lesse but to all some yea such a some that he that hath the least of it hath so much as to make his prayer acceptable though not so much prevalent with God as them who have a greater measure of it Again Gods wayes are not our wayes he is not like an earthly Prince who is commonly petitioned with a premeditated speech It is not eloquence of words that God rega●deth in p●ayer neither is it eloquence of words which worketh upon him but the pious thoughts and desires of the heart which the Lord being formerly acquainted withall before they be expressed by the tongue are even then accepted of him which the Lord testifieth by his Prophet in these words Before they call I will answer Isa 65. 29. so that it is not so much the expression of the tongue as of the heart which God accepteth or floweth as pleasing unto him Again let them peruse their Liturgy and see if they can excuse Their Liturgy ha●h many tautologies in it it of Tautologies when they repeat these Sentences viz. Lord have mercy upon us Christ have mercy upon us Lord have mercy upon us Christ heare us O Christ heare us Lord have mercy upon us Christ have mercy upon us with Thou Lambe of God that takest away the sins of the world three times repeated together with Good Lord deliver us and We beseech thee to beare us good Lord very many times repeating the Lords Prayer also many times at one Service And yet to see those vaine bablers that will accuse others with that which they are the most guilty of themselves yea what is their Pulpit Prayers but meere tautologies the same the next Sabboth as was the former A carnall man tyeth God to one and the same prayer and so for all their life long yea let the occasion be what it will Funerall or Feast Plenty or Famine Warres or Peace or what occationals soever God must either be pleased with their set forme or he is like to have none at all yea though there be never a clause in their expressions which tendeth to the present occasion whereas through the whole Booke of God we neither read of any childe of God that prayed but that his prayer did solely tend to his present occasion as I have formerly proved when I spake of the Lords Prayer it selfe SECT 8. SO that if these vapouring Russians were tyed to pray in the same nature as doe the Children of God whom they so villifie certainly they could not be so rash in censuring as they are when as some of them in mine owne hearing being to pray for a sick Party in their Pulpit Prayers have had much adoe to bring it in and much more to get into their set prayer againe but hath been in very great danger of an non plus Again the Apostle James saith that the effectuall fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much From which expression we may gather that true prayer must tend to effect the necessity of the Party praying 2. That this prayer must also be full of servency and zeale to have it effected as the Prophet saith I roared even for the disquietnesse of my soule 3. That it must proceed from a righteous man or else the other are in vaine and this is

crafts-men the Cardinals Jesuits Abbots Monkes Fryers and the rest of that Hierarchy in vindication of their Goddess●-like Diana of Popery whom all Rome and the World worshipeth SEeing this massie logge of Popery lyeth yet so crosse in the way The Preface towards a full Reformation I will therefore bend my utmost power to remove it by hewing it in peeces with that Sword which proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lambe being the very means appointed for that purpose Rev. 19. 21. and in prosecution thereof I will propound the weightiest of their Argument● which they use in the vindication of such their assertions and so return an answer to each of their objections whereby the most ignorant of them may apparently see to come forth of that dundion of darknesse and superstition in which they have been so long kept by slavish thraldome CHAP. IIII. Treateth of Idol-worship with the confutation thereof Question WHether do you conceive it to be a stubborn wilfulnesse or a grosse ignorance that causeth them to retain so many Errors and Heresies Answ I hold the cause to be the same in the Pope and the rest of his Hierarchy as was in the aforesaid Ephesians who because their Idol was of an ancient standing and withall beneficiall they therefore will set down their staffe with a desire that it might not be removed and like as L●t regarding more the firtility of the place then the corruption of the people contented himself to be in Sodeme so those Popelings I have named finding with Demetrious and ●●i●e and cove●o●snesse the chief supp●rters of Popery his fellow crafts-men much gaine to redound unto them by the use of it are exceeding loath to have their Diana dispised or brought to contempt but in that the Lay-people retain that Idolatrous worship is meerly out of ignorance and accustomed blindnesse the Idol of the Masse being to them as Diana was to the Ephesians or Bell to the Babilonians rather a cause of expence then any way beneficiall Quest Is there any hopes to reclaime them Answ I hope the Lord hath many Dionissiousses and Damarisses amongst them with whom the truth will prevaile yea that many of their Epicurian and Stoicall opinionists will thereby be drawn to the knowledge of the truth though in the attempt I shall seeme unto them as one setting forth a new doctrine Q. Can you tax them as Paul did the Athenians with an ignorant worshipping of an unknown God A. Yea and as justly as Paul did them witnesse their Idolatrous worshipping of stocks and stones SECT 2. Q. VVHat doe you terme Idolatry A. Idolatry is when any Divine worship either internall What Idolatry ●● or externall is given to any Image or Idol set to represent God of what kind or fashion soever it be Obj. There is a difference betwixt an Image and an Idol for an Idol is a representation of a thing that is not neither hath any being in the world as if one should make the Image of a mans body with the head of a dogge or a body with two faces being such a shape as the eye hath not seen but the minde imagined but an Image is of such a thing as may be seen in the world Ans The difference betwixt a graven Image and a similitude The difference betwixt an Image and a Similitude is this the graven Image is a picture proportioned and fashioned out of wood stone or metall and so carved or graven and a similitude is an Image painted in plain Tables therefore that distinction is vain Obj. Man is the Image of God but it is lawfull to make the Image of the Image of God ergo the Image of God Ans Man is made the Image of God in his Soul and not in his Body which Image the Apostle saith consisteth in righteousnesse and true holinesse Eph. 4. 24. and therefore that in man wherein he is like unto God is spirituall and invisible and therefore cannot by a visible Image be deciphered Obj. They doe not worship the Image but the thing represented by the Image Ans That was the Gentiles pretence in maintaining their Idolatry as also the Israelites in making their golden Calfe Psal 81. 11. 12 Rom. 1. 23 24 1 Sam. 7. 3 4 5 had relation unto God for they proclaimed an holy day Exod. 32. 5. yet their pretext excused them not God therefore forbiddeth Idolatry under any pretence whatsoever and if they doe not worship the Idol it selfe why doe they give divers kinds of worship unto Images as to the Image of Christ more and to the Image of Saints lesse Obj. The honour of the signe redoundeth to the thing signified Ans If the signe be pleasing to him that is signified but if it be such as he forbiddeth and condemneth it is rather a dishonour then an honour and so the adoring of Images is a dishonour to God Obj. The contumely and dishonour offered to the Image of God is a dishonour to God himself therefore the honour thereof redouneth unto God Ans If any man with a spightfull intention against Christ doe deface his Image or Picture it is contumelious against Christ because of the evill intention of the heart but if any doe it out of a zealous minde against Idolatry and Superstition it is no dishonour unto Christ in which zeal against Idolatry and Superstition Epiphanius is said to have rent a certain cloth in a Church which had on it the picture of Christ in which sence also Constantius and Theodotius destroyed Images in every place and therefore that Argument holdeth no better then the other SECT 3. Object IMages may be tollerated in Churches because they are an ornament unto it Ans 1. Churches as you terme them are for the living Images Deut. 16 22. Against Images in Churches of God and not for dead Images 2. The adorning of Churches must not be otherwise then God hath appointed and so to his dishonour nor to the offence of the members of Christ 3. As a man would not have his wife decked in Harlots apparell so is it not fit such places should borrow ornaments for Idolaters Obj. Moses caused Ch●rubins to be made over the Arke and a brazen Serpent to look upon and Solomon made Images of Oxen in the Temple for the brazen Laver to stand upon ergo it is lawfull to have Images in such places now Ans 1. These Images had Gods speciall command 2. They were not in the view of the people which were in the Temple or Tabernacle but there where the High Priest had only accesse neither were they set up aloft as Images are to be worshipped but only set forth the work of the Tabernacle and Temple 3. The brazen Serpent was used as a figure of Christ which figures doe now cease the body being come which is Christ Col. 2. 17. Obj. Images are Lay-mens Books that they which cannot read may learn by the History what was done Ans This was the very reason

which the Gentiles used in vindication Papists use the Gentiles plea c. of their Idols but if Images were a means to instruct the rude and ignorant certainly God would have commanded it in the Old Testament which he did not but contrariwise strictly forbiddeth it And if they be for instruction they must have an Interpreter for they are dumbe of themselves and an Interpreter can better instruct without them Again the Scriptures Images and Idols teachers of lyes saith that Images are teachers of lyes Hab. 2. 18. and that Idols speak vanity Za● 10. 2. If they serve then for Lay-mens Books they only teach them lies and vanities Again Images set up in Churches to be gazed upon doe draw the mindes of men from celestiall cogitations and therefore according to the Prophet Davids exhortation we ought to turn our eyes from beholding vanities especially in such a place all vain objects therefore ought to be removed from peoples sight and it is reported of the ancient The danger of Images and Idols in publick places Romans that they would suffer no Images in their Churches that the worship of God might be more pure the sight of them therefore in such publick places are very dangerous and that for these reasons viz. 1. In regard that mens hearts being naturally corrupted and prone to Idolatry by such objects are nourished to error and therefore when Hezekiah saw the brazen Serpent abused to Idolatry brake it 2 King 18. 4. and thereby took away the cause of stumbling 2. Those resemblances come so neare the nature of things living and so doth the more easily deceive Obj. The Image of Christ may be made as he was man Ans The Picture of Christ ought not to be made at all for in The Image of Christ a lying Image regard Christ is both God and Man therefore all such Images as are made of Christ must needs be lying Images in respect they cannot expresse his God-head SECT 4. Obj. THe Image of God may be made because God was sometimes seen in corporall shape Exod. 33. 22. Ans It followeth not because God by his authority could Moses could not see Gods effiges make a representation of himself that man therefore of his owne authority can doe it without Gods warrant 2. That Vision was shewed to Moses alone and in a secret place but their are set up in the publick view of all and in publick places 3. It was an Image passing and not continuing but theirs are permanent 4. That were of his back parts but they are bold to picture the glorious countenance of God which is most rediculous seeing the Apostle saith No man hath seen God at any time Joh. 1. 18. Obj. The Scriptures testifieth that God spake to Moses face to face Exod. 33. 11. Ans It is not possible in this life to see God with the eyes of the body for if so it must needs follow that God must be of a corporall and substantiall substance if he might be seen with carnall eyes for nothing by the eyes of flesh can be discerned but that which is visible finite and sircumscriptable but the Lord is infinite Ergo 2. God being of a spirituall nature cannot be seen by the God cannot be seen with corporall eyes eyes of the body for that which is of a spirituall nature doth not come under the sence of the body 3. It is said that God is Love 2 Epist joh ver 8. which sheweth his substance not a quallity as our love is so then as faith hope and love in us cannot be seen much lesse can God 4. The Image of God in man which is the inward renovation of the minde cannot be seen much lesse God himself whose Image we are 5. The minde of man is invisible much more that most pure and infinite minde 6. God is of a simple nature without any composition he hath no forme or figure but nothing is perceived of the sence but that which is of a mixt and compound nature that hath forme and fashion 7. The Divine Nature is infinite and not to be confined or limited and that which cannot be limited cannot be comprehended for that which containeth is greater then that which is contained and it is also Heterogen●ae naturae of another nature as the Fish is contained in the water and the Birds in the ayre but nothing is greater then God and he being perfectly good that which should confine him being of a divers kinde must be perfectly evill and so it would follow Deus vinci a malo that God should be overcome of evill 8. Whereas divers of the Saints have been said to see God after a divers sort if they had seen the substance of God then it would follow that God is of a divers nature and substance for he was diversly seen of Ezekiel and Isaias Ezek. 1. 26. Esai 6. 1. c. intimating thereby that God can no otherwise be seen of us then in Christ his Son who is the very graven forme of his person Heb. 1. 3. and if Christ would not grant any such carnall vision of God unto his Disciples who were convenant with him in the Flesh who can in this life expect it 9. Whereas the Prophet Esay saith I saw the Lord sitting upon a high throne and is also said to have been seen of others of the Saints we must not think that they saw Gods substance with their carnall eyes but as mens nature could apprehend him not as he is but as it pleased him to reveale himself unto them for no created understanding can come neere unto God the understanding may come neere the nature of another but it is impossible that the intellectuall part should comprehend God seeing he is infinite to be known but the power of the understanding or intelligence created is finite how then can that which is finite comprehend that which is infinite yea even the understanding of Christ that is as he was man did not comprehend God The Apostle saith he dwelleth in that light which none can attain unto 1 Tim. 6. 16. the reason is because no power can doe any thing in that which is higher then the object but God is higher then the object of our understanding Ergo Again a thing is said to be invisible two wayes 1. In regard of the defect in it selfe as darknesse and shadowed places 2. Because of the excellency thereof as the Sun is to our eye and so God is invisible SECT 5. Obj. IT is said Exod. 24. 9 10. that Moses and Aaron Nadab and Abihu and the seventy of the Elders of Israel saw the God of Israel c. as also Deut. 34. 10. where it is said concerning Moses that the Lord knew him face to face viz. as men may know one another by their countenance Ans They saw God not in his divine Essence and substance The glorified Saints shall not behold God in his essence which is invisible and incomprehensible